Re: [Gimp-developer] Angled guides
Hi, On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 21:04 -0800, Tom Lechner wrote: 2. Guides based on any path This would make precisely aligned touch-ups easy, especially with tablet pressure effects when painting, when Stroke path just doesn't cut it. Double clicking could enter and exit a path editing mode. There's Snap to Active Path already, so what extra functionality would guides add? Actually I think that Snap to Active Path is good enough for everything that you would use angled guides for. It basically makes angled guides superfluous. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Angled guides
Hi, On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 21:04 -0800, Tom Lechner wrote: 1. Angled Linear Guides Double click on a line defines a center of rotation. Double-clicking doesn't work for this. Apart from the fact that we don't use double-click at all in the GIMP user interface, it is also extremely difficult to define a position precisely this way. If we really need angled guides, then there's needs to be a way move the center of rotation precisely. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Angled guides
On 11/10/2007 08:01:39 AM, Sven Neumann wrote: On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 21:04 -0800, Tom Lechner wrote: 1. Angled Linear Guides Double click on a line defines a center of rotation. Double-clicking doesn't work for this. Apart from the fact that we don't use double-click at all in the GIMP user interface, it is also extremely difficult to define a position precisely this way. If we really need angled guides, then there's needs to be a way move the center of rotation precisely. I don't understand the double click prohibition. Seeing as how the mouse barely moves during a double click, how is that less precise than a single click? Anyway, if you are one pixel off, you can still move the thing. If double click is out of the question, then have control- click define the center point. When moving a normal guide, it says something like Move Guide: 34. Angled guides would need position and angle. When the angle is not a multiple of 90 degrees, the status bar would simply say something like Guide: angle: 23.5, position: 100,50. The position could be listed as a point on the x or y axis, or it would be the center point. That seems precise to me. 2. Guides based on any path There's Snap to Active Path already, so what extra functionality would guides add? Well, I learn something new every day! The only thing added would be a slightly easier way to get to editing that path from the move tool. Currently, unless I'm missing something simple again, you must select the path tool, then click down on the path, assuming you can find it, then edit it. If a path is used as a guide, then it might be helpful to have that graphically indicated in a style similar to current guides: dashed and colored. I still think this could be expanded to provide progressive path guides to provide something like Inkscape's engravers tool. This would mean not just snapping the center of a tool to the line, but also optionally the edge of the outline of a brush, then using the line just drawn as the snap guide for a new line. Using permanent paths a la Snap to active path would not be very useful in this case, as it would clutter up your list of real paths with temporary ones. Actually I think that Snap to Active Path is good enough for everything that you would use angled guides for. It basically makes angled guides superfluous. Perhaps! But less convenient in some cases. Tom -- http://www.tomlechner.com http://www.laidout.org ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Angled guides
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 09:05:36 -0800 From: Tom Lechner [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 11/10/2007 08:01:39 AM, Sven Neumann wrote: On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 21:04 -0800, Tom Lechner wrote: 1. Angled Linear Guides Double click on a line defines a center of rotation. Double-clicking doesn't work for this. Apart from the fact that we don't use double-click at all in the GIMP user interface, it is also extremely difficult to define a position precisely this way. If we really need angled guides, then there's needs to be a way move the center of rotation precisely. I don't understand the double click prohibition. Seeing as how the mouse barely moves during a double click, how is that less precise than a single click? Anyway, if you are one pixel off, you can still move the thing. If double click is out of the question, then have control- click define the center point. Think about the mechanical action required for a double click: you have to hold the mouse very carefully while clicking it twice in rapid succession. It would be very easy to move it by several pixels while you're doing it. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Angled guides
Hi, On Sat, 2007-11-10 at 09:05 -0800, Tom Lechner wrote: I don't understand the double click prohibition. Seeing as how the mouse barely moves during a double click, how is that less precise than a single click? A single click would be too imprecise as well. You really want to be able to drag the center point until you have reached the final destination and release it there. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Angled guides - was Re: 2.4 and how to continue from here
A Friday 09 November 2007 13:01:06, você escreveu: Hi, On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 12:36 -0300, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote: One other smallf eature I will want to add is the ability to add free- angled guides. I have this almost complete on my codebase, just .XCF saving for it is missing. I should commit that early on 2.6 cycle. I would like to get some feedback from the UI team and from some artists on this. And of course the patch would have to be reviewed before it is committed. I am not yet convinced that this is an important feature and I also have the impression that it's just added ad-hoc without seeing the big picture. It certainly has the potential to cause a lot of problems. I had never added a UI for it - I add then through scripts. And except for bugs with the guides thenselves (which i ironed out as I developed then), I never had any side effect from using them. Snapping to these guides or intesections of these guides and others works fine. If tehre are potential greater problems, just a larger userbase would be able to detect it, and then we just fix it, or remove the feature if it needs very large changes to other program areas to work properly. And rest assured I would not commit it without having an ok from you first. Of course I'd like more feedback from users and the UI team, but nearly everyone I had mentioned this had liked the idea. It is of little use in a program like GIMP where free handed drawing is not emphasized, but sometimes it is just nice it is there. (like for stamping a brush repeating it at a gven angle). My idea for UI is just writing some code for the rotate tool to be able to rotate guides, just as the move tool can move guides. i think that once tested this won't get in anyone's path and will be a little nice feature for GIMP. regards, js -- Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Angled guides - was Re: 2.4 and how to continue from here
On Nov 9, 2007 7:54 PM, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote: My idea for UI is just writing some code for the rotate tool to be able to rotate guides, just as the move tool can move guides. i think that once tested this won't get in anyone's path and will be a little nice feature for GIMP. Arbitrary angle guides would be really useful for visual aligning layers/selections along imaginary angled line. But only if precise rotation of the guide is possible. And there might be a technical challenge to implement visual moving of angled guideы same way we do it now with hor/vert guides. Anyway, expect a lot of feedback from me if this feature will have green light :) and please share your scripts if it's not ;) Alexandre ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Angled guides - was Re: 2.4 and how to continue from here
Hi, On Fri, 2007-11-09 at 13:54 -0300, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote: I had never added a UI for it - I add then through scripts. And except for bugs with the guides thenselves (which i ironed out as I developed then), I never had any side effect from using them. Snapping to these guides or intesections of these guides and others works fine. If tehre are potential greater problems, just a larger userbase would be able to detect it, and then we just fix it, or remove the feature if it needs very large changes to other program areas to work properly. Without a user interface for it, there is zero user base. And most problems are detected only after a feature is released in a stable release. And at that point it is too late to fix a fundamental design problem. Perhaps I should just review the patch before we continue. But in the meantime someone should think about the user interface for this. Without one, it is pointless to add this. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Angled guides
Hi, I've just sent in two gimp ui brainstorm pictures for angled guides to that gimp brainstorm blog, where casual comments are discouraged, so I thought I'd summarize here: 1. Angled Linear Guides Double click on a line defines a center of rotation. Drag anywhere else on the line, and the guide rotates around that point. Pressing shift, control, or shift+control can change the precision of the rotation. Double click also undefines the center, or redefines it. When there is no center defined, plain dragging will move the line. Dragging with shift, control, or shift+control, will still rotate the line, but rotates it around where the button was clicked down at. The amount of rotation in this case could be, for instance, based on moving horizontally back and forth, or perhaps have the rotation center be arbitrarily assigned to be a little ways away from the click point (but still on screen). 2. Guides based on any path This would make precisely aligned touch-ups easy, especially with tablet pressure effects when painting, when Stroke path just doesn't cut it. Double clicking could enter and exit a path editing mode. Think Inkscape engraving tool for potential expansions of this sort of thing. So anyway, Tom http://www.tomlechner.com http://www.laidout.org ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
