Re: [Gimp-user] A sad case of regression ? [saving undo history]
On 06/16/2013 11:38 AM, Liam R E Quin wrote: On Sat, 2013-06-15 at 08:03 -0700, Richard Gitschlag wrote: Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 11:30:43 +0200 From: schum...@gmx.de To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] A sad case of regression ? . . . That's not perfect yet - for example, you lose the undo history . . . How often is Undo history ACTUALLY needed by the user, beyond fixing a ten-seconds-ago mistake? I can't personally name a single application that stores undo history with the document's workfile; but if you can, let me know. no-one swims across the river here so we don't need a bridge? I've used commercial software that stored editing history in a database - you can go back through the entire history of most aircraft manuals and see all the edits, for example, for obvious legal reasons. I've many times wished I could save undo history - e.g. I'm experimenting, but my flight is boarding or my battery is low. Liam Think about it. Undo history can actually save some users the hassle of an overlooked mistake. It's there quietly sitting in the corner not really berating the workflow. It's not like it's really affecting a smooth workflow. Archie ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] finding layers after file has been closed (.... so much for the new export/save methods)
On Monday, November 19, 2012 3:36:30 PM Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 3:33 PM, maderios wrote: The new gimp-2.8 save/export is is not made to work but is only useful for newbies. I still say that the user should have the possibility to choose because this new save/export is a cause of lost time. The amount of time you put into the defamation campaign is truly impressive :) Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org /me points maderios to https://github.com/mskala/noxcf-gimp___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] About bad new save export function in Gimp-2.8
On Tuesday 11 September 2012 07:23:34 Patrick Shanahan wrote: * maderios mader...@gmail.com [09-11-12 06:15]: ... It's really very simple: Photoshop / Saving images Save a file Use the Save command to save changes to the current file or the Save As command to save changes to a different file. http://help.adobe.com/en_US/photoshop/cs/using/WSfd1234e1c4b69f30ea53e4100 1031ab64-7783a.html Set file saving preferences http://help.adobe.com/en_US/photoshop/cs/using/WSfd1234e1c4b69f30ea53e4100 1031ab64-7783a.html#WSfd1234e1c4b69f30ea53e41001031ab64-7720a You are absolutely correct. It is even more simple than you espouse: *You* are free to use fotoshot and pay the piper. And you will never notice another problem with gimp, and we will not have to continually delete your posts. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net ditto. -- Fortune cookie for Wednesday, September 12, 2012: Benson, you are so free of the ravages of intelligence -- Time Bandits ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP is GREAT!
Oh please ... now professionalism is a matter of setting one's status. In my forum, there are A LOT of professional photographers and they use a diverse range of tools and yes, it includes GIMP. Drop your judgement on what is professional and what is amateur ... or show us your gallery of professional work! Then maybe some of your comments could be taken seriously. On Tuesday 14 August 2012 18:59:22 maderios wrote: On 08/14/2012 05:31 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 7:16 PM, maderiosmader...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Alexandre Really ? In 1987, digital photography didn't exist... We (photographers) were using color slides, and the contrast was a big problem... Easier with negative but useless for commercial use. Then, 1990 years, some colleagues began using P$$op for editing and archiving their photos. It was the beginning. Thomas renamed his program Photoshop and worked out a short-term deal with scanner manufacturer Barneyscan to distribute copies of the program with a slide scanner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop#Early_history Your ability to open and read WIkipedia is commendable, but I strongly suggest that you read the full history that I linked to :) Photographers weren't the reason to create Photoshop. It came next. Thanks for the link The first reason was professionnal, not amateur (like Gimp) then, soon, professional photography editing. Recently, amateur people discovered and started using pho$$op. To improve Gimp, developpers should listen to professional people. It's a chance About democracy and Gnu/Linux software developpement: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/08/msg00844.html Regards Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list -- Fortune cookie for Wednesday, August 15, 2012: Shaw's Principle: Build a system that even a fool can use, and only a fool will want to use it. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On Tuesday 14 August 2012 21:40:24 maderios wrote: On 08/14/2012 09:21 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Ken Warner wrote: 1) Well then, if I open a jpg file and make layers and paths etc. and want to save my work, why is it anathema to export it as an XCF file? Gmail tells me there are 58 deleted messages in this conversation (yes). That is, after 58 messages you still don't understand the key difference between a native file format and a lossy file format. I think it's a call to close the conversation and kindly ask you to start learning essential principles of digital imaging before reopening the discussion. Only a native file format and a lossy file format ? Hum (in french, sorry) Native for who ? I presume .xcf is native for you. Not for me if I start with a png, smaller than a xcf. An image file is not native or lossy Ex Lossy format: jpeg, gif Ex Non lossy: png, tiff xcf People are free to work with jpeg or gif. If they want to loss some qualities, they can do do it if they know (or not, why not) what they do. May be, they want to experiment, may be they'll find new forms, nobody knows Jpeg is destructive, may be it's interesting do destroy picture ? Artist is free. Technics are made to be forgotten, otherwise, no Art Best regards Maderios PNG and JPG are not GIMP's native format. XCF is GIMPS native format as PSD is Photoshop's. PNG and JPEG are just some of the formats GIMP or Photoshop can be exported to so other apps can use them too. There is no contest to what formats people want to work in or use. Artists are not bounded by restrictions that such things should be so but rather experiment, use, employ what is available and create something new from these. I don't know who said that but that's what I would define an artist. I'm sorry to be so blatantly direct but so many just have rocks in their brains. Peace and much respect, (Maybe not for some) Archie -- Fortune cookie for Wednesday, August 15, 2012: Sailing is fun, but scrubbing the decks is aardvark. -- Heard on Noahs' ark ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On Monday 13 August 2012 18:58:24 maderios wrote: On 08/13/2012 03:55 PM, Jim Clark wrote: I have just downloaded a sound processing program called Audacity. Putzed around, hit save and was told This will save in Audacity's native format; for wave files use 'Export'. I was telling my son about the grief the developers were taking and, surprise, that's how Audacity does the same thing and he said, That's also how Photoshop does it. You confuse professional and amateur work. I'm Audacity user. It works well for amateurs, not for professionnal people. You can't compare it with Gimp. Gimp is used by professional. When you build an image, it needs hundred and hundred operations. Imagine You may create images every day... The new weird and boring Gimp-2.8 behavior (concerning save or save as functions) is not compatible with professional work. Sorry... Regards Maderios LibreOffice is another good example. If you open a .doc and Save, it will ask you if you want to save it in native Open Document format. Inkscape will not save a PNG, you'd need to Export it. Save will make your file an SVG or SVGZ. etc. -- Fortune cookie for Tuesday, August 14, 2012: This is Betty Frenel. I don't know who to call but I can't reach my Food-a-holics partner. I'm at Vido's on my second pizza with sausage and mushroom. Jim, come and get me! ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On Monday 13 August 2012 21:05:23 Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 8:58 PM, maderios wrote: On 08/13/2012 03:55 PM, Jim Clark wrote: You confuse professional and amateur work. I'm Audacity user. It works well for amateurs, not for professionnal people. I hate to tell you, but Audacity is extensively used in the professional podcasters community. Yes, personally I'd go for a DAW (and I do), but it doesn't mean Audacity cannot be used professionally. Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org As a Linux user, I use LMMS. Save, native format. Export, OGG, MP3. -- Fortune cookie for Tuesday, August 14, 2012: Your lover will never wish to leave you. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On Monday 13 August 2012 11:35:38 Ken Warner wrote: But, continuing to *argue* here is fruitless. This is most certainly and sadly true. How about looking at it this way... We see the reasons behind the change, we were able to adapt to it. Stating that GIMP that the changes are a regression is like saying just change the version number and we'll call that development. Learn to adapt to the changes. Maybe you'll feel better about yourselves. On 8/13/2012 11:20 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote: * maderiosmader...@gmail.com [08-13-12 14:09]: ... Libreoffice doesnt ask you, you choose or write what you want. When you want to save with Libreoffice, or any editor, you are free to choose the name or extension. It's just GTK dialog, clear and quick. Impossible with Gimp-2.8. It's a regression. In *your* eyes and you are entitled to your *opinion*. You have been told it is to be, why do you continue to argue? You have been provided a ?work-a-round?. Seems you have four choices/avenues available: 1. Akkana Peck's plug-in 2. Create a fork 3. Use different software 4. Use GIMP as provided But, continuing to *argue* here is fruitless. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list -- Fortune cookie for Tuesday, August 14, 2012: The moss on the tree does not fear the talons of the hawk. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On Monday 13 August 2012 21:09:33 maderios wrote: On 08/13/2012 09:00 PM, Archie Arevalo wrote: On Monday 13 August 2012 11:35:38 Ken Warner wrote: But, continuing to *argue* here is fruitless. This is most certainly and sadly true. How about looking at it this way... We see the reasons behind the change May you explain here the reasons of the change concerning save and save as ? Regards Maderios Go over the whole thread please. You might have missed Alexandre's explanation. -- Fortune cookie for Tuesday, August 14, 2012: You will feel hungry again in another hour. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On Sunday 12 August 2012 21:02:07 Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 8:30 PM, daniel wrote: Is there any reason you skipped over the part about the damage caused by deviations from the accepted standard for user interface behavior and how it affects not only the user work flow in GiMP but also in other programs a user may use at the same time? Yes, there is a reason. I'm bored to death explaining that this is not a deviation. But since you are specifically asking about it... GIMP is targeted at workflows that involve multilayered projects, masks, paths etc. If you pick pretty much any serious digital media production tool that combines bits of data inside, you'll see that it only saves to its native file format and maybe to a few exchange file formats such as AAF or OMF. Compositing software such as Nuke or Ramen? Check. Digital audio workstations such as Logic or Ardour? Check. Non-linear video editors such as Premiere or Kdenlive? Check. Do their provide optional saving behavior? Check. I've already heard people coming with professional background in media production wondering, why folks make all this fuzz about save/export. Because the change makes sense to them, and it's exactly the kind of people we are targeting. And targeting a certain group of people (or, rather, their workflows) doesn't mean that we hate other groups of users and their workflows or neglect them. The whole secondary workflow was designed to address the needs of people who want to just save changes back to the original file. This is how we hate you. We've gone from it seemed like a good idea at the time to it's too late to change, the decision has been made. _We_ haven't. Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org Thank you yet again for the repeated explanation, Alexandre. Allow me to just add in simple terms, GIMP, as excellent as an editor that it is aimed at WORKFLOWS, and although a simple Open File Resize Export (Ctrl+E or Shift+Ctrl+E ... or if anyone wishes, remap the shortcut to Ctrl+S) is also tolerable, the developers' target is serious GIMP use. The choices are simple. If users cannot adapt, stay with 2.6 or look for another editor that works for the users' purposes. Or learn to adapt, which requires very little amount of effort and brain function. If you feel, you've been left out, that is just too bad. Learn to live with it. Give it up with the hate messages. It is clear that the changes are here to stay. I want it to stay, as do many others. Respect to those who deserve, Archie -- Fortune cookie for Monday, August 13, 2012: ASHes to ASHes, DOS to DOS. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] gimp definition
On Aug 7, 2012, at 8:48 AM, Oon-Ee Ng ngoonee.t...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 3:36 AM, Kevin Cozens ke...@ve3syb.ca wrote: After you have talked with Linus, let us know what he said. :-) If I recall correctly he claimed that his projects are named after himself due to his 'egocentricness'. Hence 'Linux' and 'git' =p This is certainly going on my fortune collection. ;) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP Customization
On Monday 30 July 2012 08:51:45 jfrazie...@nc.rr.com wrote: shyam megha shyamngui...@gmail.com wrote: Want to use GIMP for map publishing.Please help me with the links of source code download. 1. First is procedure for compiling. 2. Second is customization procedure for reducing menu structure. 3. Also tell me how can change the logo. I have to laugh at this. Your first question(not numbered.. ie links of source code) is already answered and at least to my reading clearly available on the GIMP website. Your second question(item number 1, which at least for linux is also answered) indicates to me that you are not likely not a programmer. Quite frankly, my suggestion to you is you need to *HIRE a competent programmer.. PERIOD...EXCLAMATION POINT*. While compiling is not hard(on Linux anyway), it is a quite tedious process to make sure your build environment is set up correctly and then you likely have to compile a number of dependencies prior to actually getting to compile GIMP. machines. If you happen to be using Windows, quite honestly, you will spend FAR more time and aggravation just getting your machine set up to do a compile than you would to do the compile itself. Next,the biggest issue is not so much compiling, but compiling it is such a way as to make it re-distributable to other machines. As for items 2 and 3, well... the information is documented in the source code. Once you obtain a programmer to do the work, he can likely figure out the answer to these two items within an hour or so of time, but if not, he can always either a) subscribe to the developers list or b) check out the IRC channel to answer the question. What your asking for is like asking a doctor to tell gas station clerk over an email how to do Brain Surgery. While anyone can quickly learn the beginning steps(ie, save the area of the head, cut skin flap and folder back, carefully cut a section of skull, remove skull section, cut out tumor, stop bleeding, replace skull section, sew/stable skin back), the hard part is making sure that your finished product works(ie, the guys brain actually functions and he is not a vegetable, lost motor function in parts of his body, lost cognitive functioning). LOL That's funny! Thanks for the laugh. ;D -- Fortune cookie for Monday, July 30, 2012: Just think of a computer as hardware you can program. -- Nigel de la Tierre ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Friday, June 22, 2012 04:10:27 Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 3:28 AM, Oon-Ee Ng wrote: UPS delivery or email? Please, don't be rude to such an esteemed and valuable former member of this community. A personal visit is the only satisfactory solution here Now I'm getting confused: which of us two is being ironic? after all, where would open source software be if less people used it? Consider this. Over a decade GIMP has been having millions of users and just a handful of developers. What's going to change if more people overreact, issue silly accusations and slam the door? Give me the worst scenario you can think of. This is free software. People do it for fun. We respect your opinions, even when you disagree with us, and we are eager to adjust things to make users happier, but there's no way you can force us to do anything. We are not your hostages, and we don't work on your terms. Alexandre + 1 Alexandre ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Change Gimp screen color?
On Monday, March 26, 2012 19:08:29 Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 7:04 PM, . pe...@aleksandrsolzhenitsyn.net wrote: How can the color of the main Gimp screen be changed? Mine's gray and I want it black. May the power of Edit Preferences Image Window Appearance be with you :) Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org LOL UTSL, I mean pe...@aleksandrsolzhenitsyn.net Archie___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] 2.7
On Tuesday 10 January 2012 16:02:20 houghi wrote: On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 03:04:31AM +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 2:55 AM, Dave Wilcox davew54...@gmail.com wrote: I can see on the website where I can download version 2.6 but i dont see where I can d/l 2.7. Source code? Windows build? DEB packages? DMG for Mac? Please be more specific. You mean it is not on one convinient place all together with links to each? That then would be a good idea to have a 'download page for 2.7'. houghi Oh please ... this is just too much! Don't answer. Please go and look in http://www.gimp.org. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
