Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Karel Gardas


Hi,

Gabor Pali provides his own builder server infrastructure for now when 
GHC's HQ is not working. Please have a look at 
http://haskell.inf.elte.hu/builders/ and contact Gabor for more details 
(he is cced).


Thanks!
Karel

On 04/ 1/14 09:42 AM, harry wrote:

It having been suggested that a buildbot for Windows may be needed, and it
being possible that I may receive permission from management for setting one
up in my department's server room, I set about attempting to discover what
this actually entails.

A Google search led me to https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/BuildBot,
which tells me that Buildbot is currently down, and we are working on a
replacement. See Builder for more details. If I follow the 'down' link , I
get to the GHC status April 2010 page, which says that buildbot has been
abandoned, suggesting that the page should be deleted. Could someone confirm
before I go ahead and delete it?

The Builder page has clear instructions on how to set up a build slave, and
a link to the build results. The build results contains an assortment of dud
links and builds from August and earlier.

What is the current state of automated builds?



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Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Johan Tibell
We now have a (Linux) travis-ci buildbot so we should be able to use
whatever script that buildbot runs.

To make a full validate you simply check out the source repos and run:

CPUS=N sh validate

(CPUS=N is optional of course.)


On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 9:42 AM, harry volderm...@hotmail.com wrote:

 It having been suggested that a buildbot for Windows may be needed, and it
 being possible that I may receive permission from management for setting
 one
 up in my department's server room, I set about attempting to discover what
 this actually entails.

 A Google search led me to https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/BuildBot,
 which tells me that Buildbot is currently down, and we are working on a
 replacement. See Builder for more details. If I follow the 'down' link , I
 get to the GHC status April 2010 page, which says that buildbot has been
 abandoned, suggesting that the page should be deleted. Could someone
 confirm
 before I go ahead and delete it?

 The Builder page has clear instructions on how to set up a build slave, and
 a link to the build results. The build results contains an assortment of
 dud
 links and builds from August and earlier.

 What is the current state of automated builds?



 --
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 http://haskell.1045720.n5.nabble.com/Buildbots-tp5746770.html
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 Nabble.com.
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Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread harry
Johan Tibell-2 wrote
 We now have a (Linux) travis-ci buildbot so we should be able to use
 whatever script that buildbot runs.

Does this mean that the Builder page is also no longer relevant? And if so,
how could a Windows buildbot be set up?



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Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Johan Tibell
On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 10:07 AM, harry volderm...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Johan Tibell-2 wrote
  We now have a (Linux) travis-ci buildbot so we should be able to use
  whatever script that buildbot runs.

 Does this mean that the Builder page is also no longer relevant? And if so,
 how could a Windows buildbot be set up?


I don't know whether the old buildbot is still in use. I haven't seen any
emails from it in quite a while. I'll wait for some other people on the
list to chime in.
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RE: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Simon Peyton Jones
Friends

The nightly-build infrastructure for GHC is in disarray, and we could really do 
with help.  We really want
 * Continuous integration so that new test failures show up fast
 * Nightly builds on a variety of platforms, giving
   snapshots that are easy to install

Originally we used Buildbot (http://buildbot.net/). Then in 2010 Ian Lynagh put 
a lot of work into a build-bot infrastructure, implemented in Haskell as an 
open-source project, GHC Builder 
(​https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Builder).  See 
https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/Status/Apr10#Nightlybuilds for the 
reasoning at the time.

As I understand it, Builder never caught fire, and now that Ian has moved on 
I don't know that anyone is maintaining it; nor are the various builders 
working so far as I know.  Perhaps competing technology has moved on, so that 
the original rationale no longer holds?  I'm not sure.

Regardless, we lack leadership in this area.  Joachim Breitner has set up 
Travis-CI.  (I don't know exactly what that is, but it sounds useful.)  Others 
have indicated interest/willingness.  But it would be fantastic to have a 
person, or (more plausibly) a small group who assumed leadership.

An early question would be: to continue to use a DIY system (Builder), or to 
move to some other better-supported (but perhaps less malleable) system.  I 
don't even know what the options are.

Others will be better informed than me about all this... we'd love to hear from 
you.

Thank you!

Simon

| -Original Message-
| From: Glasgow-haskell-users [mailto:glasgow-haskell-users-
| boun...@haskell.org] On Behalf Of harry
| Sent: 01 April 2014 08:42
| To: glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org
| Subject: Buildbots
| 
| It having been suggested that a buildbot for Windows may be needed, and
| it
| being possible that I may receive permission from management for setting
| one
| up in my department's server room, I set about attempting to discover
| what
| this actually entails.
| 
| A Google search led me to https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/BuildBot,
| which tells me that Buildbot is currently down, and we are working on a
| replacement. See Builder for more details. If I follow the 'down' link ,
| I
| get to the GHC status April 2010 page, which says that buildbot has been
| abandoned, suggesting that the page should be deleted. Could someone
| confirm
| before I go ahead and delete it?
| 
| The Builder page has clear instructions on how to set up a build slave,
| and
| a link to the build results. The build results contains an assortment of
| dud
| links and builds from August and earlier.
| 
| What is the current state of automated builds?
| 
| 
| 
| --
| View this message in context:
| http://haskell.1045720.n5.nabble.com/Buildbots-tp5746770.html
| Sent from the Haskell - Glasgow-haskell-users mailing list archive at
| Nabble.com.
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Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Joachim Breitner
Hi,

Am Dienstag, den 01.04.2014, 10:25 + schrieb Simon Peyton Jones:
 Joachim Breitner has set up Travis-CI.  (I don't know exactly what
 that is, but it sounds useful.)

Travis is a free cloud service that runs arbitrary tests (in our case, a
stripped version of validate) upon pushes to git repositories on github.
I set it up to validate our master, so we get a nice history of
successes and failures on
https://travis-ci.org/nomeata/ghc-complete/builds
and I get mails when things fail; that is when I send hopefully polite
enough mails to ghc-dev, asking people to fix their commits.

(Unless I broke it myself; then I silently fix it and hide.)

It is a makeshift solution until we get our own infrastructure working.

 An early question would be: to continue to use a DIY system (Builder),
 or to move to some other better-supported (but perhaps less malleable)
 system.  I don't even know what the options are.

Sigh, test infrastructure are like content management systems: There are
plenty out there to choose from, all can do lots of things one does not
need, but none can do all, so one starts writing something selfmade,
which eventually evolves in yet another of these beasts, just with fewer
users.

I’d recommend a move to existing, proven tools. Unfortunately, I cannot
give advice as to what tool to move to. But if all these¹ projects are
happy with buildbot, it might not be the worst choice.

¹ http://trac.buildbot.net/wiki/SuccessStories

Greetings,
Joachim
-- 
Joachim “nomeata” Breitner
  m...@joachim-breitner.de • http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
  Jabber: nome...@joachim-breitner.de  • GPG-Key: 0x4743206C
  Debian Developer: nome...@debian.org


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Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Alain O'Dea
Hi Joachim:

From what I understand Travis CI limits running time for each build.  We may be 
able to create binaries of stage1 and/or stage2 in one build and test them in 
another.  We could also fan out the test process using a Build Matrix to let 
GHC's full suite fit into the time limit as fragments.  That would require some 
changes to the testsuite or some lengthy build scripts for each segment that 
explicitly run many make TEST=sometest commands.

I had to do something similar at Verafin because the whole test suite was 
taking too long as a whole unit. I split it into builds for each separate 
module and used more build agents so they could run in parallel.  Verafin is 
using TeamCity, but I think the concepts are achievable in Buildbot or Travis 
CI.

In my opinion, the best build and CI system is the one you can get working.

Best,
Alain

 On Apr 1, 2014, at 10:46, Joachim Breitner m...@joachim-breitner.de wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Am Dienstag, den 01.04.2014, 10:25 + schrieb Simon Peyton Jones:
 Joachim Breitner has set up Travis-CI.  (I don't know exactly what
 that is, but it sounds useful.)
 
 Travis is a free cloud service that runs arbitrary tests (in our case, a
 stripped version of validate) upon pushes to git repositories on github.
 I set it up to validate our master, so we get a nice history of
 successes and failures on
 https://travis-ci.org/nomeata/ghc-complete/builds
 and I get mails when things fail; that is when I send hopefully polite
 enough mails to ghc-dev, asking people to fix their commits.
 
 (Unless I broke it myself; then I silently fix it and hide.)
 
 It is a makeshift solution until we get our own infrastructure working.
 
 An early question would be: to continue to use a DIY system (Builder),
 or to move to some other better-supported (but perhaps less malleable)
 system.  I don't even know what the options are.
 
 Sigh, test infrastructure are like content management systems: There are
 plenty out there to choose from, all can do lots of things one does not
 need, but none can do all, so one starts writing something selfmade,
 which eventually evolves in yet another of these beasts, just with fewer
 users.
 
 I’d recommend a move to existing, proven tools. Unfortunately, I cannot
 give advice as to what tool to move to. But if all these¹ projects are
 happy with buildbot, it might not be the worst choice.
 
 ¹ http://trac.buildbot.net/wiki/SuccessStories
 
 Greetings,
 Joachim
 -- 
 Joachim “nomeata” Breitner
  m...@joachim-breitner.de • http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
  Jabber: nome...@joachim-breitner.de  • GPG-Key: 0x4743206C
  Debian Developer: nome...@debian.org
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Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Alain O'Dea
Hi,

 On Apr 1, 2014, at 11:11, Joachim Breitner m...@joachim-breitner.de wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Am Dienstag, den 01.04.2014, 11:08 + schrieb Alain O'Dea:
 From what I understand Travis CI limits running time for each build.
 We may be able to create binaries of stage1 and/or stage2 in one build
 and test them in another.  We could also fan out the test process
 using a Build Matrix to let GHC's full suite fit into the time limit
 as fragments.  That would require some changes to the testsuite or
 some lengthy build scripts for each segment that explicitly run many
 make TEST=sometest commands.
 
 The main problem with Travis is that it only tests on one architecture.
 There are more (e.g. very undetailed reporting compared to a buildbot
 waterfall/grid)

Good points.

 Hence: Travis is _not_ going to be a solution for us; we will want our
 own infrastructure.

I'm happy to assist with getting whatever system fits the bill working. It 
seems like Buildbot should.

Where can we get infrastructure on multiple architectures easily?  I imagine we 
may need to
mix and match.

 Greetings,
 Joachim
 
 -- 
 Joachim “nomeata” Breitner
  m...@joachim-breitner.de • http://www.joachim-breitner.de/
  Jabber: nome...@joachim-breitner.de  • GPG-Key: 0x4743206C
  Debian Developer: nome...@debian.org
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Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Karel Gardas


Hi,

I'm curious why not to use what's already written by Ian and others and 
which is currently running again? E.g. Janos Gabor Pali was so nice to 
start and keep builder server running on 
http://haskell.inf.elte.hu/builders/


Just few are there, but others may be added. Just send email to Janos to 
get the credentials and more information about what to get from where 
(recent builder client is needed).


Perhaps we shall more advertise this option on GHC's builder wiki page?

Thanks,
Karel


On 04/ 1/14 01:11 PM, Joachim Breitner wrote:

Hence: Travis is _not_ going to be a solution for us; we will want our
own infrastructure.

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RE: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Simon Peyton Jones
Indeed, there is no reason not to use Ian et al's Builder stuff.  It's one of 
the options.  But it depends on a critical evaluation of what the advantages 
and disadvantages of different approaches are

Simon

| -Original Message-
| From: Glasgow-haskell-users [mailto:glasgow-haskell-users-
| boun...@haskell.org] On Behalf Of Karel Gardas
| Sent: 01 April 2014 12:46
| To: Joachim Breitner; ghc-d...@haskell.org; Páli Gábor János
| Cc: glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org
| Subject: Re: Buildbots
| 
| 
| Hi,
| 
| I'm curious why not to use what's already written by Ian and others and
| which is currently running again? E.g. Janos Gabor Pali was so nice to
| start and keep builder server running on
| http://haskell.inf.elte.hu/builders/
| 
| Just few are there, but others may be added. Just send email to Janos to
| get the credentials and more information about what to get from where
| (recent builder client is needed).
| 
| Perhaps we shall more advertise this option on GHC's builder wiki page?
| 
| Thanks,
| Karel
| 
| 
| On 04/ 1/14 01:11 PM, Joachim Breitner wrote:
|  Hence: Travis is _not_ going to be a solution for us; we will want our
|  own infrastructure.
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Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Alain O'Dea
I'm going to read up on Ian's Buildbot work and experiment with that in the 
meantime.  If other challenges come up I'm glad to dive in and help.

 On Apr 1, 2014, at 12:03, Simon Peyton Jones simo...@microsoft.com wrote:
 
 Indeed, there is no reason not to use Ian et al's Builder stuff.  It's one of 
 the options.  But it depends on a critical evaluation of what the advantages 
 and disadvantages of different approaches are
 
 Simon
 
 | -Original Message-
 | From: Glasgow-haskell-users [mailto:glasgow-haskell-users-
 | boun...@haskell.org] On Behalf Of Karel Gardas
 | Sent: 01 April 2014 12:46
 | To: Joachim Breitner; ghc-d...@haskell.org; Páli Gábor János
 | Cc: glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org
 | Subject: Re: Buildbots
 | 
 | 
 | Hi,
 | 
 | I'm curious why not to use what's already written by Ian and others and
 | which is currently running again? E.g. Janos Gabor Pali was so nice to
 | start and keep builder server running on
 | http://haskell.inf.elte.hu/builders/
 | 
 | Just few are there, but others may be added. Just send email to Janos to
 | get the credentials and more information about what to get from where
 | (recent builder client is needed).
 | 
 | Perhaps we shall more advertise this option on GHC's builder wiki page?
 | 
 | Thanks,
 | Karel
 | 
 | 
 | On 04/ 1/14 01:11 PM, Joachim Breitner wrote:
 |  Hence: Travis is _not_ going to be a solution for us; we will want our
 |  own infrastructure.
 | ___
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 | Glasgow-haskell-users@haskell.org
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Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Páli Gábor János
2014-04-01 14:03 GMT+02:00 Simon Peyton Jones simo...@microsoft.com:
 Indeed, there is no reason not to use Ian et al's Builder stuff.  It's one of 
 the
 options.  But it depends on a critical evaluation of what the advantages and
 disadvantages of different approaches are

I found Ian's buildbot an appealing alternative as it does a full
build, including testing, and uploads the resulting binaries to a
common place where anybody can access them (but it can be configured
to do almost anything).  The builders may be configured individually
from a single (Haskell-language) configuration file and they are run
on various volunteer-supplied systems so it is also distributed.

I use this to keep track of the status of the FreeBSD builds to make
my work easier on building the releases and maintaining the associated
ports in the FreeBSD Ports Collection, while offering regular
developer snapshots for the users.  This approach also allows me to
control and maintain the builder environment too as it may require
minor or major changes and fixes over time that I can do myself as a
FreeBSD developer.  In the past, there were cases where the build was
failing due to bugs in the kernel or the userland, so this is not
purely about GHC itself (unfortunately).

In my humble opinon, there are merits for the Travis-based Continuous
Integration, so as for the daily snapshot building on each supported
platform.  I do not care if it is not Haskell-based or it is hosted at
a central place with individual Virtual Machines for each platform --
until I can keep doing what I have been doing for 4 years now.
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Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Carter Schonwald
hey all, I just exported the igloo builder code from darcs to git, and put
it here https://github.com/cartazio/ghc-builder
would this be something worth adding to github.com/haskell  ? (i can easily
add it if other folks it should be surfaced more visibly)


On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Páli Gábor János pali.ga...@gmail.comwrote:

 2014-04-01 14:03 GMT+02:00 Simon Peyton Jones simo...@microsoft.com:
  Indeed, there is no reason not to use Ian et al's Builder stuff.  It's
 one of the
  options.  But it depends on a critical evaluation of what the advantages
 and
  disadvantages of different approaches are

 I found Ian's buildbot an appealing alternative as it does a full
 build, including testing, and uploads the resulting binaries to a
 common place where anybody can access them (but it can be configured
 to do almost anything).  The builders may be configured individually
 from a single (Haskell-language) configuration file and they are run
 on various volunteer-supplied systems so it is also distributed.

 I use this to keep track of the status of the FreeBSD builds to make
 my work easier on building the releases and maintaining the associated
 ports in the FreeBSD Ports Collection, while offering regular
 developer snapshots for the users.  This approach also allows me to
 control and maintain the builder environment too as it may require
 minor or major changes and fixes over time that I can do myself as a
 FreeBSD developer.  In the past, there were cases where the build was
 failing due to bugs in the kernel or the userland, so this is not
 purely about GHC itself (unfortunately).

 In my humble opinon, there are merits for the Travis-based Continuous
 Integration, so as for the daily snapshot building on each supported
 platform.  I do not care if it is not Haskell-based or it is hosted at
 a central place with individual Virtual Machines for each platform --
 until I can keep doing what I have been doing for 4 years now.
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Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Alain O'Dea
Thank you Carter.

I think it's reasonable to incubate it on your Github profile for now until we 
are certain it is fully working again.  Either way works though :)

Best,
Alain

 On Apr 1, 2014, at 17:45, Carter Schonwald carter.schonw...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 hey all, I just exported the igloo builder code from darcs to git, and put it 
 here https://github.com/cartazio/ghc-builder
 would this be something worth adding to github.com/haskell  ? (i can easily 
 add it if other folks it should be surfaced more visibly)
 
 
 On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Páli Gábor János pali.ga...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 2014-04-01 14:03 GMT+02:00 Simon Peyton Jones simo...@microsoft.com:
  Indeed, there is no reason not to use Ian et al's Builder stuff.  It's one 
  of the
  options.  But it depends on a critical evaluation of what the advantages 
  and
  disadvantages of different approaches are
 
 I found Ian's buildbot an appealing alternative as it does a full
 build, including testing, and uploads the resulting binaries to a
 common place where anybody can access them (but it can be configured
 to do almost anything).  The builders may be configured individually
 from a single (Haskell-language) configuration file and they are run
 on various volunteer-supplied systems so it is also distributed.
 
 I use this to keep track of the status of the FreeBSD builds to make
 my work easier on building the releases and maintaining the associated
 ports in the FreeBSD Ports Collection, while offering regular
 developer snapshots for the users.  This approach also allows me to
 control and maintain the builder environment too as it may require
 minor or major changes and fixes over time that I can do myself as a
 FreeBSD developer.  In the past, there were cases where the build was
 failing due to bugs in the kernel or the userland, so this is not
 purely about GHC itself (unfortunately).
 
 In my humble opinon, there are merits for the Travis-based Continuous
 Integration, so as for the daily snapshot building on each supported
 platform.  I do not care if it is not Haskell-based or it is hosted at
 a central place with individual Virtual Machines for each platform --
 until I can keep doing what I have been doing for 4 years now.
 ___
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Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Páli Gábor János
2014-04-01 20:15 GMT+02:00 Alain O'Dea alain.o...@gmail.com:
 until we are certain it is fully working again.

In what sense?  I have been using the latest checkout from the darcs
repository for both the server and the clients, I seldom experienced
any serious problems.  Of course, there is place for improvements and
there are some rough edges, but I think it is quite usable, even in
its current state.
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Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Carter Schonwald
good to know (i assumed it was in working order from your remarks)

I think making it more surfaced / discoverable might enable a lot more
volunteer build bots (which is an issue aside from maintaining it)

of course, officially moving it to github should be with ian's blessing,
its mostly his work afaik :)


On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Páli Gábor János pali.ga...@gmail.comwrote:

 2014-04-01 20:15 GMT+02:00 Alain O'Dea alain.o...@gmail.com:
  until we are certain it is fully working again.

 In what sense?  I have been using the latest checkout from the darcs
 repository for both the server and the clients, I seldom experienced
 any serious problems.  Of course, there is place for improvements and
 there are some rough edges, but I think it is quite usable, even in
 its current state.
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Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Páli Gábor János
2014-04-01 20:50 GMT+02:00 Carter Schonwald carter.schonw...@gmail.com:
 I think making it more surfaced / discoverable might enable a lot more
 volunteer build bots (which is an issue aside from maintaining it)

As Karel has indicated, I have been already running an instance of the
server and I am generally open to adding further clients, if you think
this would be useful.  Perhaps the only limitation would be the disk
space for storing all the snapshots builds for all the all clients,
but I could easily solve this problem :-)

Or, if you want to move the whole service to some more official place,
e.g. under the haskell.org infrastructure, I am happy to help with
restarting the service, I already earned some experience in running
both sides over the years.
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Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Johan Tibell
On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Joachim Breitner
m...@joachim-breitner.dewrote:

 Hi,

 Am Dienstag, den 01.04.2014, 10:25 + schrieb Simon Peyton Jones:
  Joachim Breitner has set up Travis-CI.  (I don't know exactly what
  that is, but it sounds useful.)

 Travis is a free cloud service that runs arbitrary tests (in our case, a
 stripped version of validate) upon pushes to git repositories on github.
 I set it up to validate our master, so we get a nice history of
 successes and failures on
 https://travis-ci.org/nomeata/ghc-complete/builds
 and I get mails when things fail; that is when I send hopefully polite
 enough mails to ghc-dev, asking people to fix their commits.

 (Unless I broke it myself; then I silently fix it and hide.)


If the false positive rate is low, feel free to automatically have the
emails sent to ghc-devs@. We want to know when we broke stuff ASAP.
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Re: Buildbots

2014-04-01 Thread Ian Lynagh
On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 12:46:05PM +0200, Joachim Breitner wrote:
 
 happy with buildbot, it might not be the worst choice.

For reference, the reason we moved away from buildbot is that it needs
to maintain a TCP connection for the duration of the build. With some
builds taking many hours (either on old platforms, or on modern hardware
but with a full testsuite run and nofib etc) it was common that a brief
network glitch caused a build to not finish.


Thanks
Ian

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