Re: UI freeze break: Empathy: bug 668464
Hello, speaking for the Doc team here. On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 08:39, Andre Klapper ak...@gmx.net wrote: On Tue, 2012-03-13 at 11:48 +1100, Danielle Madeley wrote: Hi release team, I want permission to apply UI fixes from https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=668464 to Empathy. These are all small fixes to update parts of Empathy to the GNOME 3 style (and fix brokenness from styling and the GTK+3 transition). If the documentation team is OK with these changes, this is approval 1 of 2 from the release-team. I checked Empathy help: the changes that need to be applied are minimal, and cover only two already available pages. So,OK from the Doc team. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Common Vocabulary
Hello, On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 17:59, Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org wrote: We've been working on a new style guide on and off. It's not really ready, and doesn't answer any of your questions. But it has some info on common terminology and instructions. http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-devel-docs/tree/style-guide Will definitely give it a read and update myself. For the switch, I refer to it like this: * Switch guiBluetooth/gui on. * Switch guiBluetooth/gui off. It's the simplest, most direct way I can think of. For the +/- buttons, I've been using just the + and - characters in gui tags. I'm not entirely happen with that. I would say we should take the accessible name into account, but many of these +/- buttons don't have accessible names right now: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=660023 I'm open to suggestions. Right now, I do not have any, apart from using a little bit bigger element (the + and - signs are really small compared to the rest of the text) or an image (with all the relevant problems that we might have with that and different themes). Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Empathy Help Update
Hello everyone, I updated a little bit Empathy help in order to fix the new theme and UI. In particular I did a small update to the topic about the previous conversations. The UI for that task has through a complete redesign... I tried to keep it as simple as possible, I would be happy if somebody could give it a read and report (or commit directly) any improvements. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Common Vocabulary
Hello everyone, I was working on updating Empathy help, but there are a couple of questions I have. Do we have a common vocabulary or a common way to describe the new UI elements introduced with the new interface? I'm referring in particular to the ON/OFF switch, and the +/- buttons to add and remove accounts. On the wiki I couldn't find anything about that, nor here in mailing list searching in the old discussions. For the +/- button, should we use the images instead like we do with other buttons? For the ON/OFF switch, I used something along the line of switch it on/off, but do we have something else? Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Common Vocabulary
Hello Tiffany, On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 17:49, Tiffany Antopolski tiffany.antopol...@gmail.com wrote: I think that the ON/OFF switch is just the 'switch'. So 'switch it to ON/OFF' sound right. Cool, that is what I used, also because using swith the ON/OFF switch to ON|OFF sounds terrible. And for the +, and - I have been referring to them as gui+/gui in the docs. I'm not 100% sure though. Maybe someone else can confirm. Great to know that. Also, I'm wondering from an a11y point of view and from a theme perspective, if this might work well. I have been following a little bit this and Mallard mailing lists, but have been mostly off the radar, so I do not know if we can use the operating system theme to get those icons instead of embedding them in the help by ourselves. Has work been done on that front? Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Terminology: app, window, workspace, part of the window, file, folder
Hi folks, On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 12:04, Phil Bull philb...@gmail.com wrote: +1 from a localization POV. Finding translations for terminology based on proper words may be difficult enough sometimes. Attempting to translate slang is even more difficult, and sometimes even impossible. from my translator POV, I have to say that using app or application will not change a lot: I will continue to translate it as if it was written application. I'm talking about my language here, where app is really really informal and used mainly for informal talking. I disagree; app is an abbreviation of a real word, so it's not completely invented. The freedictionary, FWIW, lists app as a valid word (abbreviation of application); also the Merriam-Webster (both as an abbreviation and as a valid noun) (I don't know other valid English vocabulary resources online...). I don't think it approaches the informality of a slang word, and it's entered common usage, so on that basis I think it would be a fine candidate. I am struggling to think of occasions when I've heard a user talk about applications, however. If it's an issue for translation though, then that's enough to kill this recommendation. For me, it's not really that an issue... As long as we have somewhere written that app (or apps) stands for application, and translators are aware of this guideline, it is possible to translate that word into whatever one's language sees fit. Just a note: I have a rather recent version of the iPhone user's guide (downloaded it), and they use application and applications, same as in a Nexus One user's guide. I'd like to point out the importance of choosing words that people *understand* rather than words that are *traditional* or *correct*. Often, the three will coincide, but in my opinion the first property is the most desirable. Personally, I find it a little bit weird while writing help and using app: I wrote a small topic for gbrainy the other day, and use app for that (I think I also left it there). Maybe it's just a matter of getting used to it, but it felt a little bit strange, too informal to me. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Mallard Documents to Review?
Hi, On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 21:39, Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org wrote: According to Blip, we have the following Mallard help documents in git.gnome.org for the 3.0 desktop release: * Desktop Help (gnome-user-docs) - April Gonzales, Cristopher Thomas, Phil * Empathy Instant Messenger - Jim, Milo, Peter Haslam, Phil, Shaun This should be OK for a review, plus also for adding new content for the next release of course. * GNOME Tetravex - Milo, Rob Bradford Should be OK to be reviewed too. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Status Updates
Hi there! On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 00:51, Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org wrote: Hi folks, It's the end of the quarter again, and Stormy will soon be asking for team updates for the GNOME Quarterly Report. Once again, I could use your help getting a list of what's been accomplished in July, August, and September. Still working in progress on Rhythmbox help, minor edits to Empathy help. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Request for review: Empathy help
Hi Philip, first of all, thanks for the input and the corrections. 2010/9/9 Philip Withnall phi...@tecnocode.co.uk: “When a meta-contact has been created, the default contact that will be used to have a conversation with when you double-click on it, is the last contact you select to link from the guiLink Contacts/gui window.” Not true. The contact with the highest presence (i.e. the most online contact) is chosen. This is interesting. I've been trying all yesterday evening to understand what was the rationale behind it, and basically whenever I started choosing one account, that didn't become the default one. “From the guiContact List/gui, right-click the contact to separate, and select gui style=menuitemUnlink.../gui.” Nope, you have to select “Link Contacts…” then press the “Unlink” button. Note that starting an audio/video call with a meta-contact or send a file to one is also possible using the normal “Audio Call”, “Video Call” and “Send File” entries in the top-level contact list context menu. In the case of starting an audio or video call, the call will be started with the contact with the highest presence out of those in the meta-contact which are capable of audio/video calls. In the case of a tie, contacts which can do both audio calls _and_ video calls will be preferred (as it's assumed that the client they're using is more capable). Will work on this later this week-end and update the docs accordingly. Thanks again. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Interesting Open Source Tools
On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 1:45 AM, Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org wrote: Hi folks, I'm trying to put together a list of open source tools that would be interesting to documentation people. I'm organizing a lightning talk session for a major UA conference. I want to wow people with cool open source tools. These can be anything that a documentation person would find useful: writing and editing environments, status trackers, automated build systems, translations tools, etc. I have a decent list, but I'd like to get others' thoughts. Can you post that list, so that we don't double add the same tools? I was thinking about a tool that I think is called Blip... :-) Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Request for review: Empathy help
Hi dear doc-writers, I'm still alive (or I'll try to be...). I added a new topic to Empathy help to describe the new contacts linking and unlink feature. I would like to request a review of that topic, and why not, of all Empathy help. There are a couple of things that need to be updated, precisely in the audio and video topics (I'll try to work on that during the week-end). You can find the new topic directly on Gnome git (the new file is link-contacts.page), the commit is here: http://goo.gl/cnRa Thanks in advance. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: How to generate .page files from .po files
Hi Andrej, 2010/8/11 Andrej Žnidaršič andrej.znidar...@gmail.com: Hello ! An example of a program, which uses .page files is empathy or gbrainy. For xml files I use this command, which works good: xml2po -p help/hu/hu.po help/C/legal.xml legal.xml, but that doesn't work for .page files. I also tried Milo's suggestion: for i in `ls ./C` do xml2po -p ../po/LANG.po -o ./LANG/$i $i done, but i get the following error: Traceback (most recent call last): File /usr/bin/xml2po, line 191, in module main(sys.argv[1:]) File /usr/bin/xml2po, line 174, in main xml2po_main.merge(mofile, filenames[0]) File /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/xml2po/__init__.py, line 590, in merge raise IOError(Unable to read file '%s' % xmlfile) As I am not a programmer i don't know what to do now. Any help would be greatly appriciated. mine was really a suggestion, what I wrote there needed to be worked better. Anyway: what version of xml2po do you have? Can you run this command: xml2po -v Ciao. PS: BTW, the directory containing the LANG.po file for you doc language, is not ../po/LANG.po, that one is the translation of your program: you have to use LANG/LANG.po. Also, you probably need to test if the file you are processing is really a file and not a directory. If I have a little bit of time later today I'll try to write a better script. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: How to generate .page files from .po files
Hi Andrej, 2010/8/7 Andrej Znidarsic andrej.znidar...@gmail.com: Hello ! I am a translator and i would like to review my translation of documentation of gnome programs. Some programs have documenation in the form of .page files, but i don't know how to generate them from .po files, which i use to do the translations. Can someone explain me how to do it? You should do something like this (supposedly you are in the help/ directory): for i in `ls ./C` do xml2po -p ../po/LANG.po -o ./LANG/$i $i done This should get you all the .page files translated from your LANG po file into the LANG directory, and you can read those pages with Yelp as usual (yelp help/LANG/). Hope this can help you. Ciao. PS: I think a while back somebody else asked the same question... maybe it is time to add a little page on l.g.o about how to do that, maybe with a simple script... Mental note to do that. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: DH planning meeting
2010/6/21 Phil Bull philb...@gmail.com: How about Thursday 19:00 UTC? Absolutely fine for me! Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: DH planning meeting
Hi guys, 2010/6/20 Paul Cutler pcut...@gnome.org: Sorry for the late response - I won't be at the meeting today as my wife is traveling and I have the kids. Phil and Milo - if you want to propose a time or times for the planning meeting, hopefully evening time in Europe, I can probably make an hour or so one afternoon during work. Shaun is in the process of moving so he may be iffy. Just let me know what works. For me it can work out from 17UTC to 20UTC, almost all days of the week, as long as we can have a little bit of notice in advance. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: DH planning meeting
2010/6/20 Phil Bull philb...@gmail.com: Hi guys, On Sun, 2010-06-20 at 19:05 +0200, Milo Casagrande wrote: For me it can work out from 17UTC to 20UTC, almost all days of the week, as long as we can have a little bit of notice in advance. How about Wednesday the 23rd at 18:00 UTC? You want me killed! :-) The only day in the week I'm not going to be home: I'll be out that afternoon for work and be back on Thursday morning. If any other days won't work, go for it, no problem. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: DH planning meeting
2010/6/20 Phil Bull philb...@gmail.com: No problem, how's Thursday instead? That's absolutely fine for me. Paul, Shaun, what about you guys? Preferred time? -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: DH planning meeting
2010/6/18 Phil Bull philb...@gmail.com: OK, shall we skip this week (it's short notice), arrange one for next week and perhaps advertise the meeting a little on the planets? We can have a presence online anyway if somebody needs help, but we can schedule something better for the next week. I was thinking of doing something similar to Ubuntu's One Hundred Papercuts [1]; having a good, up-to-date task list and quick reviews should encourage new contributors. That's a great idea! Yes, we need a pretty good list of small tasks. Before we can do this, we need to make sure that new contributors can get a working version of gnome-shell installed on their computer relatively easily. There's an Ubuntu PPA, but it was broken last time I checked. Any ideas? I think we may have a hard time here... Last time I checked jhbuild (and it was kind of 2 weeks ago), it wasn't compiling. I don't know how the situation is now. For the gnome-shell, instead, I use their script to compile it, and it works pretty well: the problem is that (for me) is an half-baked experience, since I'm not using the latest version of GNOME, but the last stable release, so it's not the real whole experience, but it gives you a pretty good idea about how the shell works. I never checked out the PPA, but using a PPA means people have to be on a Debian-based distribution (don't even know if it will work on Debian though). It's an option for some, but not for all. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: DH planning meeting
2010/6/17 Phil Bull philb...@gmail.com: Hi Milo, On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 21:20 +0200, Milo Casagrande wrote: no, there is not. Were you thinking about a weekend one or sometime later this week even with a short notice? It would be good to start on this ASAP, Totally agreed. so a Sunday meeting at the usual time would be useful, if people can make it. That would be this Sunday (20th June) at 17:00 UTC. I don't know if I can make it, but I'll do my best. Summer Sundays I'm usually out of town... If others agree, I'd like to have a small planning meeting each week where we focus on a different topic area. The rest of the week could be spent working on this area and getting as much done as possible. Personally, I would aim to give a fast turnaround on reviews and maintain a presence on IRC (for once), which should be useful for new contributors. What do you think? I think we can make it. I'll be more present in the coming weeks during evenings UTC time, so we can have an almost continuous presence online, weekend is a little bit more difficult for me. But if we get the ball rolling, we can have pretty much all the topics covered on time. I would like to personally focus on the gnome-shell and the new functionality it brings for users: we need to describe those too. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Do you have docs awaiting review?
Phil, if you happen to have more time than I do in this period, there is also this one that we should be taking a look at: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-list/2010-June/msg00012.html Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Desktop help location?
2010/6/15 Frederic Peters fpet...@gnome.org: Traditionally development happens in master, and are later branched, is there a reason why gnome-user-docs would be doing this differently? Should I update the jhbuild modulesets to track gnome-3-0? We were going to use the gnome-3-0 branch as a staging pool, and move the complete topics into master when reviewed and ready to be translated (otherwise there could be some noise for translators). Personally, I wouldn't update the jhbuild modulesets yet, we don't have a lot of content there. But I would also like to hear what others think about that. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: DH planning meeting
Hi Phil, 2010/6/15 Phil Bull philb...@gmail.com: Hi guys, Is there a desktop help planning meeting scheduled for some time this week? no, there is not. Were you thinking about a weekend one or sometime later this week even with a short notice? -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Desktop help location?
Hey Phil, 2010/6/14 Phil Bull philb...@gmail.com: Hi guys, Where are we supposed to be committing changes to the new desktop help? I'm assuming it should be the gnome-3-0 branch of gnome-user-docs, but I don't see anything in there yet. yes, that's the branch, and yes, (unfortunately) there's nothing in it yet. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Git Commit Messages
2010/6/1 Paul Cutler pcut...@gnome.org: Is this just for gnome-user-docs or any help files in any module? I tend to use that prefix for all the commits I do regarding docs in any module (at least in Gnome git). I really welcome this simple and easy rule. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: GNOME User Guide
Hi, 2010/5/24 Paul Cutler pcut...@gnome.org: We had a brief Docs team meeting yesterday and I shared with Shaun some concerns about the new user guide for GNOME 3.0. Can you believe we only have about 3 months of development time for the new user guide?! (Where does the time go...) Indeed, we are starting to be late in the cycle... and I'm to blame here, have been kind of absent in this period. Hope to get back on track within the next week. Shaun recommended, and I think it's a great idea, is to have a collaborative planning session to work on this together one afternoon or one evening. Evening UTC+0 would work better for me, at work I can't really follow an IRC meeting or a video-chat (I don't even have a webcam there if we want to do a video one). We'd like to try and do something the week of June 6th or possibly June 13th. Is there an afternoon or evening that might work? Possible the weekend of the 12th or 13th? If we could do a weekday in the evening Europe time / afternoon in the US, that could work too. Thoughts? Ideas? For me it's OK, whatever days is fine for you guys, it can work for me too, as long as I know it a couple of days before. I have no problem and I'm really keen on having such a meeting. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Can't attend meeting this week
I should be there for this weekend meeting in case somebody has questions, but I won't be present at the next two. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Remove section numbering for DocBook
Hi, 2010/5/14 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: I'm considering removing section numbering for DocBook documents, referencing everything by title only. Section numbering accounts for a significant portion of the processing time for DocBook, and it's some of the weirdest stuff that translators ever see in PO files. The downside is that it would make the output from my stylesheets wholly unsuitable for printing entire documents. But I think I'd rather focus on making tools for minimalist help viewers, and let others worry about tools for printed manuals. Thoughts? I have no objections in doing so. If it gives us more speed to open up document (and can ease the translators work), it's all welcome! Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Different menu layouts in different distros / default desktop configurations
2010/5/12 Jim Campbell jwcampb...@gmail.com: I was thinking of a global entity file for the desktop help (i.e. the Gnome system docs), not for application help (i.e., Banshee docs). The reason for this is the discrepancy between instructions for the legacy Gnome panel layout the the Gnome Shell layout. Personally I think that in this case we need to draw a line on what we are going to support: the old layout or the new one. The future of Gnome is the Gnome Shell, can we support both the old docs and the new one? I think in this case downstreams or distros that will not switch when Gnome 3.0 will be released, might help us on keeping the old docs updated (patches are always welcome!). We have a new branch for the gnome-3-0 release, distros can still ship the old gnome-2-30 branch. What we are going to work and focus on is the gnome-3-0 branch, that will be merged with master when the time comes. (All of those are my personal opinion.) Anyway, I think the idea of having a global entities file is valid: we can have a central place where to store menu paths and probably also application names (and here I'm thinking more about the DH rather than an application help). Downstreams, if they need to customize the help because of changes in their version of the UI can easily modify the entities file (but as Shaun said, they need to handle also the translation process, since those modified strings will need to be retranslated). -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Mallard FAQ
Hi Paul, 2010/5/11 Paul Cutler pcut...@gnome.org: Before I forget, I just wanted to mention we really should write a FAQ about Mallard. I find myself once a week explaining a lot of the same things. Great idea! I created a simple page here: http://live.gnome.org/DocumentationProject/MallardFaq It certainly needs content and some work. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Brasero Help - In Mallard!
2010/5/4 Harold Schreckengost mew...@gmail.com: I believe this is what you're looking for: http://gitorious.org/~mewshi . You have been added now. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Addition to Empathy Help Introduction
Hi Harold, thanks for you patch. 2010/5/1 Harold Schreckengost mew...@gmail.com: While the attachment is titled additionToIntroduction.diff, it also contains a trivial edit to the account creation page (changing with to using in the first paragraph). I have no clue how to separate these edits. I'm fine with the small bits of the patch, and have already applied and pushed those parts. The part that I'm not so sure about is the one the patch was really intended: the new paragraph in the introduction page. In my mind that page is intended as a general introduction to what Empathy is, not to what you need or you have to do to run Empathy. When you first run Empathy, and you don't have any account set up, the assistant will be shown with a Help button that will provide you with (hopefully) all the information you need to register a new account, or what you need to set up the most common accounts. Why do you think we need such a paragraph in that page? What do others think about? Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Addition to Empathy Help Introduction
2010/5/2 Harold Schreckengost mew...@gmail.com: In the IRC channel, we got on the topic of a getting started section for applications. I can't remember who it was, but one person suggested that was a good idea for larger applications, but for smaller applications (like Empathy) it made more sense to just add to the introduction page links that point to the first things someone will do (in this case, adding accounts, migrating from other messengers, and signing up for new accounts). This idea made sense to me, so I went ahead and wrote the patch. With that in mind, the introduction topic in Empathy probably doesn't even make sense, and a Getting started would make more sense. If we have the assistant at the first run (and we have it), and we don't show the introduction there, we shouldn't probably show it in the actual help: people who will reach that point should know what Empathy is for, and probably would like to see a quick start guide. If this is a bad idea, I understand, although I feel that it makes sense, especially with something like Empathy where there are common tasks someone will undertake at the beginning. It is not a bad idea, although I think that a getting started paragraph in a introduction section is out of place. We can use seealso links, and that would make more sense to me. For the F-Spot help, I am intending to have a Getting Started section, including, but not limited to, importing files, browsing files, etc. If this is a bad idea, let me know, and I will move on without it. A little bit off-topic here: can you please use this wiki page: http://live.gnome.org/DocumentationProject/Planning and list yourself in the table, so that we can keep track of who is working on what (at least under the GNOME Doc umbrella). Thanks. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Rhythmbox Help
Hi, just a notice to say that I kick-start the planning/writing of Rhythmbox help. To easy people who would like to help out I created the usual repo on gitorious here: http://gitorious.org/rhythmbox-help/rhythmbox-help The brainstorming wiki page is here: http://live.gnome.org/DocumentationProject/Planning/RhythmboxPlanning I talked with the Rhythmbox devs and an outline like that would be OK as a starting point. After we have covered those topics, we might want to explore Rhythmbox plugins and think about that. Even if we don't have a 100% feature-complete help it's not that bad, since Rhythmbox help as is now is pretty outdated. If you have any suggestions or ideas for topics that we need to cover, please add them to the wiki page, or here in the mailing list. If somebody wants to forward this email to other docs mailing list to see if we have people interested in helping out, please feel free to do it! :-) Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Brasero Help - In Mallard!
Hi Harold, 2010/5/2 Harold Schreckengost mew...@gmail.com: I have finished converting the Brasero Help files into Mallard; I have attached a gzipped tarball of the requisite files. If I have missed anything or made any egregious errors, please let me know ASAP so I can take it into account when I move on to the next project. Thanks for this great work! I think we have a very good start here to create the new Brasero help! I have gone on and created a repository on gitorious for handling all the various work for this help. If you would like to keep on working on this help, you might consider creating an account on gitorious so that we can give you access to the Brasero help repo, in order for you to get to know git (if you don't already do). We have also a very basic brainstorming page for Brasero: http://live.gnome.org/Brasero/Documentation Probably it's not complete, and it needs to be reorganized, but it's a start on the topics that we would like to see covered in the help. Let us what are your thoughts and if you would like to keep on working on this help. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Desktop Help//Compress/Archive/CD Burning
Hello Harold, we are looking at the documents you provided us. We'll get back to you ASAP. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: GNOME DVB Daemon documentation
2010/4/26 Sebastian Pölsterl s...@k-d-w.org: The assistant is not started automatically, you have to run gnome-dvb-setup manually. Totem will start it for you if no devices are configured. This is interesting and something to keep in mind. I think this needs to be said on the Totem part of this help guide: what I'm thinking is for the gnome-dvb help to be installed alongside the Totem one, with the Totem part of this help appearing in the Totem help. So just ot have a better understanding of how the program works: can I use it without Totem? Am I still able to record shows and do all the other things? Would a tooltip explaining it be a good way, too? Why not, that can work too. Personally, I think people discover tooltips by chance, not because they think that there is a tooltip there: not everything has a tooltip or a tooltip worth reading. Okay, though you would only describe actions that could cause problems and/or are not obvious, right? Basically, yes. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: [Fwd: Re: Documentation Drafts]
Hi Phil, Cristpher, thanks for your precious work! As soon as Shaun branch gnome-user-docs we can Mallardize what you have been doing and then start tweaking it. I should have more free time in this period, and can easily write the Mallard page for those. I gave only a rapid read at the topics and they look good overall. One note: we should try not to insert any distro related information or references. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: GNOME DVB Daemon documentation
Hi Sebastien, 2010/4/24 Sebastian Pölsterl s...@k-d-w.org: I was wondering if there's any progress in this area and if not what's missing to get things rolling? Personally I miss time! :-) I'll try to reply to your fitst mail with the proposed topics layout. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Empathy help
Hi Guillaume, 2010/4/23 Guillaume Desmottes gdesm...@gnome.org: Good to see you are working on improving Empathy's documentation. :) Having documentation helping users to debug audio/video issues is really something we'd like to have. There even is a bug about that: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=599165 Amazing! Maybe those pages could be used to fix this bug? I think so, my intent for those pages was to guide users on the common problems that could arise with video and audio call. Maybe we would need something more, but we need to collect information and data first, and then organize the content. There is not enough time to do all of that for the 2.30.1, so we definitely need to target 3.0. Speaking of 3.0 and about new features that will land in Empathy, do you have any suggestions in order for us to keep track of those new features? Sometimes it is quite hard to know exactly what it's going on unless you play hard with the software, or follow the git commit log... Do you think an open bug at the beginning of the cycle with a request to write something each time a new feature has been inserted would be useful? I know this kind of things can quite get into the devs way, but maybe we can find a common ground and technology to ease all our lives. I'm not an audio/video specialist myself, so I'd say it's probably best to discuss this on the bug. Agreed. Subscribe to the bug and will start discussing there ASAP. Don't hesitate to comment if you have any question, I'd poke the right people to reply to you if needed. Thank you so much. Ciao. PS: are you subscribed to the mailing list or should we keep you CCed? -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Empathy help
(Guillaume, I've CCed you for having your input on that last part of this message, thanks.) Hi, I've just pushed some changes to the Empathy help to reflect some of the changes in the new version. I would really appreciate if somebody could review what I've done. There is a small paragraph now on Facebook in the topic to create a new account: I think it might need some love, it is very basic. To see the flies changed look here: http://is.gd/bDVWZ I'm also attaching two draft pages about the problems that a user can encounter with audio and video calls. I'm attaching them here because I didn't push them, due to the fact that I don't really know the real why of those errors. The errors are: Can't establish audio stream Can't establish video stream Any help for those? Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org prob-video-call.page Description: Binary data prob-audio-call.page Description: Binary data ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: New Note Types
Hi, 2010/3/28 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: Hi folks, I'm thinking about note styles and getting icons in place for all of them. Currently, the following note styles are recommended: * advanced * important * note (default) * tip * warning We don't actually have an icon for advanced yet. I'd like to add these two: * accessibility * package We'd use package for any note that says You have to install X to get feature Y. I was also thinking of letting you use some note styles on sections, and Yelp would put the note icon near the section title, maybe float right. I'm thinking of pages like Move the pieces in Gnotravex, where there's an entire section Avoid the click-and-hold which could be considered to be an extended accessibility note. Thoughts? I was thinking about this. I like the idea of having two new style for notes, and also the note styles on sections, but something came to my mind: how can we handle a11y enabled icons? IWhen you use Yelp with an a11y theme, its color scheme adapts to that of the system theme, can we have icons that adapts to that too? We talked in another thread abount having images that will change based on system installed icons, shouldn't we consider that here in this case too? Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Empathy note about telepathy-idle
Hi, 2010/4/8 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: We have a note on ghelp:empathy?account-irc that says this: You must have the telepathy-idle package installed in order to use IRC in Empathy. OK, good useful information (but s/in order to/to/ please). Fixed (but not pushed yet, it's only on my local copy, will push it with the other fixes). Except this page is only linked to from the Accounts Window guide, and a couple see-alsos. Open up the Empathy help to the front page. Think to yourself, I want to chat on IRC. Click to whatever pages you think are relevant. It's at least three clicks to get to this note. You are right, and I agree with you. That page (accounts-window) was meant to be linked from the help button of the Accounts dialog, in order to have all the necessary information in one place, I think we simply forgot to insert the detailed IRC page in the real browsable topics (the account-window page is only accessible as a link guide or from the help button, it's not really accessible from ghelp:empathy). (Also, if you click on Accounts Window under More About in a topic, you don't have breadcrumbs anymore, you have to use the Back button to go back.) What about adding the note to irc-join-room? And maybe use link groups to make that the first page on the account-irc. Heck, we could even just add the note to account-irc. I think you meant irc-manage that is the guide page with all the IRC related topics, account-irc is where the note is right now. If we move the note from the account-irc page and insert it in the irc-manage page, we loose the note when people access account-irc from accounts-window, because there we only have the detailed IRC one and no other IRC pages. Indeed we need to give it a better location, just don't know if we should have it in two places, or just one. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Will not be at meeting this Sunday
2010/4/9 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: I won't be able to make the meeting this Sunday. I'll be driving home from Atlanta. Can somebody run the meeting and send logs and minutes to the list afterwards? I don't know if I'll be able to be present at this one too. If I'll be, a will probably be online very late. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: 2010 Q1 Report
2010/4/6 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: Hi folks, It's time for the quarterly report again. Please let me know about achievements from January, February, and March. Personally: - Empathy: updated some parts of the manul (still work in progress) - Attended Desktop Help Summit - Busy with translations For the team we can list the Desktop Help Summit brainstorming, and all the inter-desktop talks we had there. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: gbrainy Mallard documentation
Hi Jordi, 2010/4/6 Jordi Mas jordim...@gmail.com: Is there any reason for not working with oficial GIT gnome repositories? I think that would make sense for you guys. You are definitely right, but personally I didn't want to touch anything before having your approval to move things in gnome git. So I worked again on gitorious to fix things. As soon as everything is in gnome git we can work directly from there. There is also another reason: if we want new contributors to help out, we need a place where we can easily grant them git commit right, in order to practice without maybe messing things up on gnome git. Back on your previous problem, the one Shaun replied: I fixed those on the gitorious branch, that should be pretty safe to use. The next two gbrainy versions would be: * 1.42: some time during the next four / six weeks depending on the number of bugs received * 1.5x: at the end of July 2010 The idea is to integrate the new documentation in 1.42 since it does introduce new functionality and allow translations to start working on it. Great, that is very helpful for us. Thanks. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: gbrainy Mallard documentation
Hi guys! 2010/4/5 Phil Bull philb...@gmail.com: Hi guys, I reviewed the document for spelling, punctuation and grammar. It looks good; I've attached a diff with a few changes, plus a few editorial comments I added too. Thanks Phil! Wonderful review! I applied your patch and also fixed a bunch of other validity errors. It's all pushed on gitorious, so if you take that branch, it is now pretty up to date. Jordi: do you have an estimate of when you would like to release a new version? There might be some changes we would like to apply (thanks to Phil's suggestion). Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Problem in Yelp?
2010/4/1 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: Those strings are provided by gnome-doc-utils. It looks like they're translated in it.po in git. Maybe Ubuntu is using an older release of gnome-doc-utils? I checked the gnome-doc-utils.mo file, and it contains those translated strings. Ubuntu next release is shipping 0.19.5 version of g-d-u. I'm going to open a bug in Ubuntu anyway. Will see what happens. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Empathy 2.30
2010/3/29 Paul Cutler pcut...@gnome.org: Let me know how I can help on the SIP / video stuff. Maybe we can take 15 minutes during a weekly meeting and try it out. :) Paul, if we can manage something at the same time as the meeting maybe this Sunday, that would be awesome. I need to check if everything works fine under the VM where I'm running latest Ubuntu with latest version of Empathy. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Empathy 2.30
2010/3/29 Mario Blättermann mari...@gnome.org: OK, it's now somewhat to late for 2.30, but it would be fine to mention these things in the manual for 2.30.1. As far as I know, the most mainstream distros (Ubuntu, Fedora, Mandriva and all of their derivatives) will ship 2.30.1 within their upcoming releases. That's why it doesn't matter that the manual is still incomplete. That's true. I'm going to address some of those later this week and during the weekend (even if I don't like breaking translations). In my mind, a better collaboration between developers and doc writers is needed. The developers should inform about such major improvements and changes as soon as possible, or the doc writers have to search for appropriate sources for these things (e.g. blogs). Currently, the time between the final state of a documentation and a release is mostly too short for quality translations. Sometimes, a doc translation is sewed with a hot needle (german saying). I agree with you: I discovered some of the new features through blogs, the Gnome News or even bug report that I've been made aware of. Personally, I don't have enough time to follow all the bug reports; maybe having a structured document where the development of an application and the new features are pointed out, would be a great starting point, but we need to have it beforehand, not the day of the release. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Empathy 2.30
2010/3/29 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: http://cass.no-ip.com/~cassidy/blog/index.php/post/2010/03/29/Empathy-230-released Did we cover everything? Didn't add the Facebook account to Register for a new account topic, totally forgot about that. We have it in the Audio and Video support table though. Definitely not talked about the red banner thing, cause it changes colors based on the problem (last time I checked). Worked on the problem thingy when you have a problem like the Name in use: it was a little bit different than the older one (now there are different buttons in there). Probably needs to be reviewed. Password protected IRC room is in (thanks to Jim also!) The video stream one: we have nothing like that. I've never tested video nor SIP or voice related protocols (have nobody with whom I can test, I tried with myself on two different computers, but that didn't work out very well). I didn't know about the search in the chat window... totally new to me! We(I) can definitely improve, and that blog post is pretty awesome. Thanks for pointing it out. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Icons for page types
2010/3/28 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: I'm attaching three rough ideas for page type icons. Please excuse my poor artistic skills. Obviously we'd want a real artist to do final versions. May we ask the gnome-art team? These aren't named in any way that indicates what they are. I'd like people to guess, to see if the metaphors convey anything useful. And I'd love it if people could get non-documentation friends and family to guess too. People on this list are probably primed to give biased answers. I took a look at the icons, I'm going to try to show them to some non Linux people hopefully later today or at least tomorrow. So, this is what I think those icons represent: - The first one, looks like a video camera to me... - Tip - Task - Looks like a default non-icon, could be a manual or a description... -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Icons for page types
2010/3/28 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: Yeah, this is something I was concerned about when I first created the location entry. I'm planning on adding a menu item for search that will just focus the entry. I'm also planning on having a Search entry in the history dropdown that will do the same thing. I hope that the two of those combined will make it more obvious, and once a user uses the menu item or entry once, it should be clear that they can just click inside the entry in the future. Testing would be awesome. I just don't know where to get people to test on. I don't know about usability, but what about having some italic, light-grayed-out text inside the search bar that says Type here to search..., or something similar? Are those kind of text inside text-entry discouraged? Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Icons for page types
I've been thinking about the icons and also about the search thing after Jim's input. On a system-wide help search, like I perform a search from the starting page of Yelp when I launch it from the desktop, will it be possible to group the topics? (personally I didn't test Yelp 3.0 search, so this is maybe how it works already) Let me explain what I have in mind. I have empathy and xchat-gnome installed, both with Mallard help. I think I need to use this IRC thingy, what is the application I can use?. I start Yelp from the desktop, I search for IRC, and all the topics that are IRC relevant shows up in the search entry, grouped by application: [IRC ] XChat-Gnome IRC topic 1 IRC topic 2 - Empathy Instant Messenger IRC topic 1 IRC topic 2 The application entry has the application icon displayed next to it (amazing would be to have a Show menu like Mac OS X that tells me where to launch the application, because I'm doing a system-wide search), and all the other have their icons if they do so. If I press Enter without selecting any of the topics in the search entry, I think I would like to have a page that has the same layout (or some sort of) of the search entry list, with all the topics grouped together on an application basis, but displayed by Yelp. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Icons for page types
2010/3/26 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: What I'm considering is having icons for certain common page types. So we'd have an icon for tasks, overviews, problems, guides, etc. I think this would be particularly helpful in the auto-complete dropdown. Thoughts? I love it. Don't we forget about Tips Tricks. :-) -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: gbrainy Mallard documentation
Hi, sorry to bring this topic up again. Jordy did you take a look at the gbrainy doc here: http://gitorious.org/gbrainy-help It should be pretty complete, unless there has been major updates to the program. The problems I listed on the previous mail have been resolved with the latest gnome-doc-utils release. Any chance to merge the help from the gitorious repo? Let me/us know. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Request for review: new topic in Empathy
Hi list, due to bug 612448 [1], I reworked the old offline-contacts topic into a new one: it is now hide-contacts. I already pushed the changes, would like to ask if somebody is willing to take a quick look at it. I'm also warning the i18n mailing list about the little change. Thank you. [1] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=612448 -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: What's New Pages
2010/3/10 Russell Dickenson russelldicken...@gmail.com: I like the idea of What's New because it's an easy way for users to keep up with new features. I remember listening to a podcast episode many months ago when a co-host said It's a pity Nautilus doesn't have a tabbed interface, like that of Thunar. He was immediately told that in fact it did and where in the menu to look for the feature. If he had wanted to know that release's new features, he could have read the What's New page and immediately seen the announcement of the tabbed interface. Experienced users rarely RTFM and you may know, but may at least read a What's New page. In fact, perhaps such a page could be displayed by Yelp when the app is started for the first time? Maybe we can have a What's New menu entry in the Help menu, as long as there is a whatsnew.page. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Next Meeting
2010/3/8 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: Hi folks, So I proposed that we start having weekly meetings, but neither Paul nor I will be available next weekend, and at least Paul, Milo, and I will be at the Desktop Help Summit the weekend after. The proposal is to have our next meeting the first Sunday in April, as normal, and to start having our meetings weekly after that. The first Sunday of April is Easter. Personally I have no problem since for me it's already evening, but could be a problem attending for someone else. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Next Meeting
2010/3/8 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: How about we have our next meeting March 28? Otherwise we have a five-week dry spell with no meetings. We can just start up weekly meetings from there, and have one on April 4 anyway. It won't be a big problem for people to miss the April 4 meeting, since we'll have just had one the week before. Sounds good to me. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Doc Team Meeting
2010/3/1 Paul Cutler pcut...@gnome.org: Does 18:00 UTC / 12:00 p.m. CST work for everyone? +1 for me. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Hamster documentation review
Hi, I went on and applied+committed the patch Bruce provided (thanks Bruce!). I also added a little extra to the index.page (the logo) and removed the news section, since it was not of much use at the moment. If something is wrong, we are just a couple of git-revert away. Shaun, I remember you saying you were or would have wanted to work on that help. Did you start working on it? I think it shouldn't be a long task, so maybe could I give it a shot or maybe help you out. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Hamster documentation review
2010/2/24 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: Does the help need my help? What state is it in now? Personally, I think it's not complete yet. It would really need an Introduction topic and a small reorganization of the already present topics (I would consider a couple of those for some kind of Advanced section). Maybe a good table explaining what symbols to use and what they do could be a good idea to take into consideration. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Hamster documentation review
2010/2/21 Bruce Cowan li...@bcowan.fastmail.co.uk: Here's a patch that fixes a few grammar issues. I don't really know how Mallard works, so bear with me if I did anything incorrectly. I'd be happy to review any other documentation now, or in the future. I've taken only a quick look at the patch, and noticed one thing: you removed all the final period from the description of a topic (desc/desc). Empathy help uses them, and also the other helps I think. So, what is the standard way to use them? I'm fine with either, but I think we need to write it somewhere to avoid confusion. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Hamster documentation review
2010/2/21 Bruce Cowan li...@bcowan.fastmail.co.uk: Yes, this was something I wasn't sure about. I suppose I should have checked the empathy documentation beforehand. Bruce, can you provide an updated patch so I can apply-check it? Thanks. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Empathy and Proxies
Hi, 2010/2/16 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: Empathy doesn't seem to support SOCKS proxies. This makes it pretty useless on a lot of large corporate-type networks. I mention this because this will cause Network error: ghelp:empathy#prob-conn-neterror I think this is worth mentioning on that help page. It's going to bite a few people in the rear, and nothing on the help page right now is going to be helpful to them. I just pushed some changes to Empathy help, and added a really small one-sentence section to that topic. Don't know if we need to elaborate more on that front, I'm up for suggestions. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: UI Freeze Break Request
2010/2/15 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: On Mon, 2010-02-15 at 16:08 +, Guillaume Desmottes wrote: Empathy's accounts dialog used to mix Log In, Save and Apply buttons in a confusing way. I have a branch fixing that by implementing this logic: - If we are creating a new account and are connected: display a Log In button. - If not: display a Apply button. For the docs team, I'll stand behind whatever Milo says. He did report the bug originally. CC'd him to make sure he sees this. No problem at all for me since this will fix a rather strange behavior of the interface. I updated yesterday the documentation, but was monitoring anyway this problem in order to provide a patch for that particular topic. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Empathy help
Hi, I just pushed some updates to Empathy help. There is a new tiny topic in the IRC section of the help, would be glad if somebody will give it a read, and report if it's necessary to add something more to it. Is really basic, just to tell people that now they have the /help command for the supported IRC commands. I also added some group links, but I don't understand if they really work: I'm using g-d-u 0.19.3 with Yelp 2.28, do I need latest Yelp too? Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Tetravex help
I just pushed the new tetravex mallard-based help in gnome-git. I updated also the Makefile.am, but please double check that everything is really working as it should be. There are two files that I didn't touch though: - the omf file: that file has a GFDL license line, I don't really know what we should do with that - there is a topic.dat file in the C/ directory, I don't know what is the purpose of that file, I left it there... If there are any problems, you know where to find us! :-) Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Mallard Article for Gnome Journal
Hey Shaun, 2010/2/10 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: I'd like to get some community feedback on what topics people think should be addressed in the article. Why not a tutorial or some kind of article, describing how third-parties, ISVs, downstreams, can plug their own modifications to the help of a program? I don't know if this kind of article would suit GJ, but it could be really interesting to showcase how it is easy to provide updated documentation based on personal modifications or patches to a program. Interesting could also be to provide a supposed workflow on how to deal with writing a new topic/page, how to test it and validate it, and how to deal with translations. A plus: how to provide a separate package to update only the help. I don't know... just throwing there ideas... Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Using videos in the help
Hi list, prompted by the video problem with different HTML rendering engine, with a friend of mine (Luca Ferretti), we managed to put on the web a video of yelp with WebKit backend and the HTML version of the Tetravex help with the video in it. You can find everything here: - http://people.ubuntu.com/~elle.uca/tetravex-epiphany.ogv - http://people.ubuntu.com/~elle.uca/usage.xhtml I tested the HTML version with Firefox (3.5) and with Chrome (4.0), and Luca tested it with Epiphany (in jhbuild). Firefox is the only one that plays the video in its exact aspect, Chrome has good video controls, but the aspect is not preserved, and in Epiphany (as you can see from the video) video controls are not visible even if the video is played. I don't know the actual development status of Epiphany and what are the plans for the future, if somebody can give us an update or some hints, that would be awesome. Also, if somebody else is willing to try out Epiphany and see how it works out, that would be really appreciated. Speaking of Tetravex video, I would really like to see it in, but if most of the distros are shipping a WebKit based version of Yelp, and this doesn't provide a good experience yet, I'll leave it out. I plan to push the new Tetravex help version during the weekend, so to have a little time to collect more impressions and experiences. Thanks for the help. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Using videos in the help
2010/2/10 Frederic Peters fpet...@gnome.org: Philippe Normand gave a talk at FOSDEM about this specific issue, status of multimedia support in WebKitGTK+, hopefully he will write about this on the web [and I am CC'ing him]. I missed that talk... I knew it would have been useful! Thanks Frederic. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Using videos in the help
Hi Willie, 2010/2/10 Willie Walker walker.wil...@gmail.com: Neat. Does the video support closed captioning? Unfortunately, not. It is based on the HTML5 video tag, and it doesn't really support captioning (yet?). I know that Mozilla has some proposal for it, but nothing real (if there is something already working, I would really like to take a look at it). I've been looking around to see if there is some sane way to add them, but they involve JavaScript and is something that we have or we do not have: it is not possible to enable/disable them when needed (well, at least for what I've been looking). Plus, we need to take into consideration i18n/l10n aspects and the translators workflow. Usually CC or subtitles are stored in a separate file, we should deal with that in a way that translators will not find awkward (maybe extending xml2po?). These are just my personal researches, I don't know if Shaun has been looking into it, IIRC we discussed briefly about this during an IRC meeting. Willie, do you think the absence of CC or subtitles is a real blocker to the introduction of small video in the help? Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Using videos in the help
2010/2/10 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: A couple of links I just got from our find WebKitGtk friends: http://people.opera.com/brucel/demo/video/accessible-html5-video-captions.html This is really really interesting. http://people.mozilla.com/~prouget/demos/srt/index.xhtml I knew about this one, but didn't like much the subtitles selection. We can totally make subtitles happen in Yelp, regardless of whether the browser does it natively. It looks like .srt files are the standard for subtitles, but I wonder if we should have a way to embed them directly into Mallard documents to keep the translation workflow easy. Sounds like a great idea for a Mallard extension. 2010/2/10 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: I just asked in #webkit-gtk on FreeNode. You need at least WebKitGtk 1.1.18 for video controls to work. Ubuntu seems to have 1.1.20 right now. So I say we go for it. Great. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Tetravex help
Hi all, just an update on this. I tested mallard tetravex help [1] with latest version of gnome-doc-utils and of yelp, and everything is working fine, video included. Mario, what do you think? Are you happy with the new structure and layout? Shall we move it into gnome git? Ciao. [1] http://gitorious.org/tetravex-help/tetravex-help -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Tetravex help
2010/2/9 Mario Blättermann mari...@gnome.org: The video doesn't work for me yet, but I'm still using gnome-doc-utils v0.18.0. No problem, when you say it works, then it works :-) I'll try to collect other experiences about the video with latest gnome-doc-utils. @Shaun: just to have an idea, the official version of Yelp is based on Gecko right? I only tested it with Gecko, not WebKit, 'cause I?m having problems jhbuilding it with WebKit. I'm very very happy with its structure!!! Much better than the template from gnome-hello. We should provide it as an example for any other manuals, especially for games. The license blurb is at the right place, and also the other stuff. In my mind, it's ready to take-off, unless anyone disagrees. It would be fine to have it in GNOME 2.30, and of course, I would translate it before 2.30 will be released. Glad to hear that! As soon as I collect other experiences, I'll push everything on gnome git in order to have it ready for the 2.30. Thank you. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Tetravex help
2010/2/10 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: Yes. I have never made a WebKit-based Yelp release. Nonetheless, it appears that Debian and Ubuntu ship a WebKit-based Yelp. That's a lot of users. Yeah... that's my biggest concern: big users base. I'll start another thread on the video issue. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Images in topic titles
2010/1/27 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: We're past feature freeze for 2.30 now, so it will have to wait until 3.0. What about the text style? Is it too late to include also that in the meanwhile of the theme-based icons? I would like to move Tetravex help into gnome git, if Mario is OK with that. Also, I haven't tested latest Yelp version, but since Tetravex has a small video in it, would be interesting to know if video support is working. The upcoming version of Ubuntu still has version 2.28, and I'm having a hard time building jhbuild. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Images in topic titles
Hi,
2010/1/27 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org:
On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 13:07 +, Calum Benson wrote:
IMHO, this might only be useful (as opposed to just looking pretty)
if the correctly-themed application icon is used, otherwise that
'visual hint' is potentially meaningless and confusing. E.g. nearly
all the application icons in the High Contrast theme are (or are
supposed to be) quite different from the gnome/tango/hicolor versions.
We've discussed before having a way to include a themed
icon in a Mallard document. This is useful in a lot of
other places. In fact, I think it's even more important
for instructions like Click the [*] icon. If [*] looks
like {^} in HighContrast, that could be really confusing.
Maybe an icon: URI scheme would be a good way to do it.
media href=icon:gbrainy width=48/
Calum raised a pretty interesting problem, and something that me too
would like to see in Mallard, something that downstreams would really
appreciate.
Shaun, what is the possibility to have something like that in the
2.30? Or better aim for the 3.0?
Ciao.
--
Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org
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Images in topic titles
Hello list, during the last days I've been playing around a little bit with Mallard and how to put some color into our user help. Attached to this email you find the result applied to three different help: GNOME Tetravex, gbrainy and Empathy. Basically, I've added the application logo to the title in the index.page like this: title media type=image mime=image/png src=figures/empathy-logo.pngEmpathy Instant Messenger logo /media Empathy Instant Messenger /title You also need to add a title-link inside the info section of the page, in order for the link to that page to not show the image (otherwise they will look pretty ugly): info title type=linkEmpathy Instant Messenger/title /info There is a small (fixable) problem though: when you use the alt text in the image inside the title, that alt text will be shown in the window title bar. So, you will have something like: Empathy Instant Messenger logo Empathy Instant Messenger We can ditch the alt text, but that's there for a11y reasons, and in my opinion it needs to stay there. I would like to kick-start a discussion about this feature that we can add to our help, and would like to propose it for all the new help that will be written. For me, it gives a little bit of color to the application help, and provides also a visual hint to users of the application logo when browsing the menus. What do you think? Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org attachment: test.png___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: More... links in Mallard
Hi Phill, 2010/1/23 Phil Bull philb...@gmail.com: The two ways I've tried so far aren't very satisfactory. One is to add a link going to the main guide page alongside the other links. The problem is, you need to manually put it in the right order (preferably at the end of the section). This feels clumsy. The other way is to add some text with a link into each section on the front page. The problem with this is that the link is at the top rather than the bottom, and is a static rather than dynamic link. Any ideas? Can you do something like this: !-- This is the index.page -- section id=blah style=2column titleBlah Topics/title section plink type=guide xref=PUT_ID_OF_PAGEMore.../link/p /section /section The problem with this is that you get a small section with its top small-grey line (the one under the title), and is a little bit indented. But it will stay at the bottom of your section. Maybe it is possible to add a style to the section that will not have the small grey-line at the top if the title is not there... -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Controlling 3rd-party content in Mallard
Hi, 2010/1/23 Phil Bull philb...@gmail.com: We've been discussing Mallard quite heavily on the Ubuntu Docs list over the past week. One issue that came up (via Kyle Nitzsche, see his original message here [1]) is that people could install their own pages in the same directory as the official Ubuntu documentation. Probably I'm not getting the Real problem here, but this looks more like a packaging problem to me. And I think that it can happen even now, Mallard or not: a bad-done third-party package that installs something in the wrong directories (it replaces all the xml files of a particular directory). In some situations this would be useful, for example when a different default browser is chosen. The potential for misuse is massive, though; third-party developers could pretty much take over the official docs if they wanted to, putting links to their content in irrelevant places. I've never ventured that much into the external linking in Mallard, the majority of links I've been using have a scope: the directory I'm writing in. I don't know how Mallard will handle, for example, a link from Empathy to Vinagre help. I think that I can insert a link to Vinagre in Empathy help, but that that link will not appear in the other application help, otherwise, when I open Vinagre help, there should be something that tells it that there's a link from Empathy to itself (to me, it looks like a challenging question to solve). Take for example a ghelp link in a Mallard page: if you insert a ghelp link pointing to a Mallard document, you get to open the document you link (same works with an old Docbook one), but the linked Mallard document will not know which documents link to itself. The interesting (and probably challenging) thing could be to insert a ghelp link without specifying its text (linktext/link - link /), and Yelp could look up the info and title of the document from the index.page of that document, or from the relevant information if you are not linking the index.page, but a topic instead. So, if third-party developers need to link some other help inside their help, I think it will not be a big problem. The problem could always be if they want to plug something into the existing help: they need to know what the infrastructure is, and how it works. Ciao. (Those are just my personal thoughts.) -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Updating Rhythmbox (and Banshee) docs
2010/1/22 Jim Campbell jwcampb...@gmail.com: I was actually interested in getting this going for this release, too. I know we'd be under some time constraints, but I still think it could be done, especially if we have a few people working on them. It can be done for this release if we have a good plan, but there could be a problem. Rhythmbox doesn't really follow GNOME release scheme. They did a release (0.12.6, the one in Lucid) in November. Personally I don't know when will be the next release, I'm not subscribed to the mailing list. We should probably try to ask on IRC if they have a possible date when the next release will be. We may risk to work a lot in this period for the 2.30 release, and then (exagerating) Rhythmbox gets a release at the end of the year. If they have a pattern, they might do a release in March though (looking at their FTP space on gnome [1]). But anyway, this shouldn't stop us from planning and start working on it. ;-) Ciao. [1] http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/sources/rhythmbox/0.12/ -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: gbrainy Mallard documentation
Hi Jordi, I'm bringing this topic up again. I'm done writing all the topics that I find relevant for gbrainy help. You can find the final work here: http://gitorious.org/gbrainy-help Input and review from everybody is very well appreciated. Some notes: - There is a little problem (for now) with the title of the document when viewed with Yelp: you will see something like gbrainy logo gbrainy. This is due to the fact that I've added a small image to the title of the document, writing also the alt text for the image. It is a known problem: Shaun, do you think it is fixable before the 2.30 release or for the 3.0? If we want to proceed and leave that small images there, that means gbrainy will have to depend on a non-released version of gnome-doc-utils if gbrainy is released around mid February. - I wrote a little table with the duration in seconds of the games at the various difficult level: it is necessary to check if the values are right, I calculated them from the original document. - Is it gbrainy or Gbrainy? When it has been reviewed and you think the help is OK, please feel free to move it from gitorious into gnomegit, or I can do that and take care of the Makefile too. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: gbrainy Mallard documentation
Hi Jordi, sorry for very slow reply. 2009/12/27 Jordi Mas jordim...@gmail.com: I have been working on the last days in adding the documentation using Mallard to gbrainy[1]. That's great! I would appreciate some input / help in these area: 1) Since I added Mallard support I get the following error when running autogen.sh: Running automake --gnu ... gnome-doc-utils.make:74: if $(DOC_H_FILE: non-POSIX variable name gnome-doc-utils.make:74: (probably a GNU make extension) help/Makefile.am:1: `gnome-doc-utils.make' included from here gnome-doc-utils.make:77: if $(DOC_H_FILE: non-POSIX variable name gnome-doc-utils.make:77: (probably a GNU make extension) help/Makefile.am:1: `gnome-doc-utils.make' included from here Any idea on this? Are you still having this problem? Is this a blocker thing or it compiles anyway? 2) Any comment on the use of Mallard in gbrainy [2]? Specially anything that is not following the expected standards. 3) Any comment or suggestion on the documentation structure for gbrainy and its contents? I've been playing a little bit with gbrainy help to move it into a more topic-base approach, splitting up some of your paragraphs into smaller chunk of information and giving the document almost the same structure as the GNOME Tetravex one I've been playing around. You can find the initial work here: http://gitorious.org/gbrainy-help The topics there are not all written, I added them in order to see the structure of the entire help, some others are missing, and the entire help needs a good review. What do you think of a structure like that? If it's OK I can go on and work on that a little bit more, and maybe complete the help (but unlikely for the mid-January release). Let me know. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Idea for simpler lists and tables
2010/1/5 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: My question is, does it make sense to you as writers? It certainly seems much easier once you understand it, but does it boggle you at first glance? I want to make things as simple as possible, but sometimes too simple can just be confusing. Thoughts? When at first I saw this: list pOne/p pTwo/p pThree/p /list I thought: are those three different items in a list, or is it a list with one item and three paragraphs? Maybe I'm used with the more-typing syntax (even if gedit snippet FTW) so at first it was a little bit weird to me and it took a little bit to get me in, but it looks interestingly easy to use and to get used. FWIW, from my personal experience, what I feel more complicated are tables rather than lists. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: 2009 Q4 Report
2010/1/4 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: Hey folks, It's that time again. Stormy will be asking for input from the various Gnome teams for the fourth-quarter 2009 report. So, what have people been up to in the last three months? - Tetravex Mallard rewrite by Mario - gbrainy Mallard rewrite (I'm starting to take a look at it) - I've been working on a survey for the docs, but it's not public yet, and also have started brainstorming about gnome-shell (not public yet too) Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Documentation Team Meeting
2010/1/1 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 17:51 -0600, Shaun McCance wrote: How do people feel about Sunday, January 10th? Same bat-time, same bat-channel. Where the bat time would be 18:00 UTC, and the bat channel would be #docs on GIMPNet. Happy 2010. Hope you're all doing well. Happy 2010! Bat-time and bat-channel sound good to me! Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Tetravex Help
2009/12/31 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: http://www.gnome.org/~shaunm/tetravex-help/usage.html This is built from your sources with the latest yelp-xsl. I'm getting various mixed reports from people as to how well it works. The HTML file on its own does work in a Gecko-based Yelp for me. I have yet to hook Yelp up to yelp-xsl to get it working directly. For me it's not working... it loads the Gecko video player and also the video I think, but it doesn't play the video and the commands don't do anything... -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Tetravex Help
Hi, 2009/12/27 Mario Blättermann mari...@gnome.org: I've converted the files into HTML with Shaun's Makefile. The Video doesn't work, neither in Epiphany (gecko) nor in Yelp. There's no clickable link to it. I've tried to feed my help browser directly with the *.page file, but Yelp cannot handle it. Yelp cannot handle the video in it (yet). That's a step back in comparison with Yelp's ability to parse and handle XML (DocBook) files directly. Well, Yelp cannot handle DocBook really, but it starts the appropriate conversion in the background, without any arguments, just typing yelp db_file.xml. I created a stupid test page to see how the support of the HTML video tag is. It works on Firefox, but not with Epiphany + WebKit on GNOME 2.28 (I can't reproduce the video, I see only a static image). Does anybody know what is the support of the video tag with Epiphany trunk? As you can see, the link from the *.page file will not be converted to a real HTML link. And another question: Once it works, does Yelp have to start an embedded video player to play it, or could Yelp play it directly? I mean, Yelp have either to be able to call a browser plugin (based on Totem, MPlayer...) or it should include its own player feature. What's the current solution here? At the moment, I think there isn't a real solution, but Shaun should probably be the best to speak here. In general, I think it's a good idea to let appear a small video wherever needed, especially for applications which needs time-critical control, such as games. Your video is good, in any case videos should be kept short. But it is some irritant, that it doesn't show a mouse cursor. The video I uploaded is 47 seconds long, I think it would be better to have a 30 seconds video, even if we do not complete the game, but at least we show all the movements. I'll try and create another one. I kept it small with regards to pixels size: now it's a 240x320, I don't know if we should go with a bigger size. I'll try and see how Firefox renders it at different resolutions. In my mind, it would be better to have it available in the real GNOME Git repo. There's some time left before 2.30 will be released. Should be possible to get it really working within some months. For me it's OK. We can leave the video out for the moment, and see how things evolve. If we are able to show videos in Yelp before the 2.30 deadline, we can insert it later. But we have to find a valid solution for including the license stuff before. OK, I agree, we don't have to display the program's license within the docs. But we should include the doc license itself. Agreed. A good way to do so would be a See also link in the index.page which links to a short version of the CC-BY. I think we can do that. The best solution would be to have a system wide license, maybe in g-d-u that gets translated from there, but if we cannot make it for 2.30, we can ship a common license page valid for all docs, linked from the index.page. I'll work on this later, and will attach the license.page in l.g.o under the DocumentationProject pages, so that we have a valid reference in the future. Have a look at the Kupfer docs to see what I mean [1]. In fact, we have such a license.page (or license.xml?) in the Empathy manual, which is the one and only real example for an aims-to-complete Mallard doc. And I repeat my question another one: Why it is shipped with, but doesn't appear anywhere? IIRC, It used to appear. In the first Mallard-XSLT version there was a footer in every page with the copyright year, and a link to the license (or was it only the copyright year?). But that has been removed in order to have a better way to show the license page and also to give credits. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Tetravex Help
I pushed (always on gitorious) a new video: now is around 25 seconds, and at 320x240 is only ~750Kb (I have also a version at 400x300 that is 1.1Mb). I pushed also the license.page: I copied almost all the Common Deed in that page, and is now linked from the index.page. I attached the license.page to this wiki page: http://live.gnome.org/DocumentationProject/License If it's OK, we can just move everything into gnome-git. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Short Mallard Tutorial Ideas
Hi, 2009/12/27 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: I'm looking for ideas for short Mallard tutorials. This is for the projectmallard.org site. I'd like to start off with maybe a dozen short (10-20 minute) tutorials. Help me brainstorm what to write, and I'll write them. Well... since you just introduced link groups, that one could be a good topic to talk about! Maybe also the use of the topic, guide and seealso links, how they work and what are they supposed to do. Interesting to me could be a real use case of the revision element... -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Tetravex Help
I managed to expand and fix up a little bit Tetravex help, and I pushed also the video, so you'll find it in the repo [1]. Please, if somebody has some spare time, give it a read and post comments here. Mario, do you think we can import it into the real GNOME repo? Apart for the license that we need to find a general solution, and the video section that if it doesn't work with Yelp we can't import that. Ciao. [1] http://gitorious.org/tetravex-help -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Tetravex Help
Hi doc team! Long time no messages on this mailing list! After the first discussion of the new Mallardized Tetravex help, and after our last team meeting, I've been playing Tetravex quite a lot. Really. And have also started to look at its help in a more topic based approach. There is a small repo on gitorious [1] with the small work I did. It's not complete, and needs seriously rewordings. I thought it was easier to write a game help, but apparently it is not. I had an idea of replacing the screenshots in the help (not all), with a small video. Something that doesn't need to be localized/translated, so we need to have only one: that means no window borders and no menu bar, only the game area (don't know if this will be possible with all gnome games). The video should show how the game is played, the possible movements and all that jazz. I did one (it's not uploaded on the repo though) and it's around 3/4 MB with a tiny game window. The problem is that Mallard or Yelp (in 2.28) doesn't show it. Shaun, is it a known problem or something not already planned/implemented for Mallard/Yelp? What do you guys think? Input on this front would be, as always, really appreciated. Ciao. [1] http://gitorious.org/tetravex-help -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Tetravex Help
Hi, 2009/12/22 Mario Blättermann mari...@gnome.org: OK, just checked out from Git and processed with Shaun's Makefile. Nice, it just needs some extra formatting, but it seems to be complete enough to give users really the information they need. it's not 100% complete, at least for me, there are a couple more topics I would like to write down, like a small one on how to start the game (which number to look at to choose the first piece to move, something like that). A simple question: We have a legal.page, but its content disappear from the view. That's the same as in the Empathy manual, which is already released. Why? This could be better, have a look at my (still incomplete) documentation for Kupfer [1]. It's just an idea for displaying some legal notice and the program's license appropriately. I'm not completely sure about providing the program license and the help one in the same document (since they are also two different licenses), but it's an interesting idea. I'm more for: program's license with the program. Anyway, I think we need to fix it or find a solution. Could be to have a system wide document that gets linked, automagically or inserted in the index page. There's also to note that CC licenses don't need to be provided along with the doc, just the URL to the online license (or the deed) is OK to meet the license requirements. Also, only the deed is translated, not the entire license. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Why Mallard?
2009/12/22 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: Hey folks, If you've used Mallard, and have enjoyed using Mallard (or at least enjoyed aspects of it), please reply with a list of what you like. This is for the projectmallard.org website. - Easier - Simpler - Faster The part I enjoyed more: writing in a different style (topic-based) than with Docbook. I can't imagine writing with Mallard in any different way, I think it forces you to think that way. -- Milo Casagrande mi...@gnome.org ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Question about entities in Mallard
Hi all, 2009/11/24 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: The trickier question is how to include the standard character entities. There are similar DOCTYPE tricks, but you'll need to have them installed on your system. It turns out that you do have them installed as part of the DocBook package, but do we want to rely on that? Should we encourage people to use DocBook's character entity definitions? Should we ship our own character entity definitions? I'm all in favor for shipping a gnome-doc characters entity definition. Would it be a good idea to set as a goal for 3.0? /me thinks the standard character entities should have just been part of the XML standard. Agree. -- Milo Casagrande m...@casagrande.name ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Mallardized Tetravex manual
Hi Mario, thanks for your work porting documents to Mallard! 2009/11/2 Mario Blättermann mari...@gnome.org: Hi, here is the first draft of the Tetravex manual in Mallard. As said, a 1:1 copy of the existing docs. I have still a problem: The weblink in license.page doesn't work. What's the matter here? For the web link in the license page, use: link href=/link instead of: link type=http url=/link No type attribute is defined for inline Mallard link (mal_inline_link) element. You use the type attribute only with link in the info section of a page (mal_info_link). Also, but that's not really a problem, only Yelp complaining, there is no address, street, state (and the others too) element in Mallard. Maybe you can use a code block to represent the FSF address. Hope this can help. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande m...@casagrande.name ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Mallardized Tetravex manual
Hi Mario, 2009/11/2 Mario Blättermann mari...@gnome.org: Yes, it helps really:-) Happy it helped! New license.page is attached. Another question: I get the topics in index.page in a wrong sort order. Like this: Customization Introduction License Playing GNOME Tetravex But I want to have: Introduction Playing GNOME Tetravex Customization License How I can get this? For how I undertand things (actually I can't remember if I asked Shaun about this...), the sorting of that page is based on the titles of the linked pages. So that's going to be a little bit hard to adjust the sorting as long as you don't change the words you use. What you can do instead, is thinking a little bit different the layout of your help. Thinking a little bit more topic-based. I'm attaching a simple 2-minutes hack based on what you have done. Take a look at it and see if it can work for you. It can be adjusted and probably expanded too. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande m...@casagrande.name tetravex_mallard.tar.bz2 Description: BZip2 compressed data ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Proposal: GNOME Doc IRC planning meeting
2009/10/23 Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org: IMPORTANT NOTE: DST in the US ends on November 1 at 2am. UTC never changes. Good call... and here in Italy is this weekend, I forgot about that (also because I hate that...). I'm going to be in Chicago that weekend, at my favorite weekend of the entire year[1]. I might be able to find a coffee house before heading back down, but there's no way I could do it before 3pm, which is 21UTC. So, 21UTC can work for me, otherwise we can schedule the next weekend so that we don't rush you into a coffe house (again). Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande m...@casagrande.name ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
Re: Proposal: GNOME Doc IRC planning meeting
2009/10/23 Paul Cutler pcut...@gnome.org: If we can push it out one week, that would be better for me, I have plans on Nov 1st. OK, so we schedule for November 8th, 18UTC. If I'll get no answer, I'll updated the wiki this Sunday. Ciao. -- Milo Casagrande m...@casagrande.name ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list
