Re: [GNC] Need help with eBay - tagging multiple sales into one payout hitting checking two business days later

[David G. Pickett via gnucash-user]

 For transfers, I put both dates in the description, and start it at the from 
date for ease of reconciling that account, then move it to the to date for ease 
in reconciling that account.  I have not tried that for checks, but might start 
them when cleared and then move them to when written.  Even ACH often shows up 
a business day later.

So much of the business world still runs like it did on daily tape master file 
updates, where they fed one or more tapes of input transactions and inquiries 
into a tape master file update and got one or more output transaction tapes.  
They could do it in real time on disk.  The only downside for instant real time 
is that a delay with notification allows the account owner a chance at catching 
fraud.  Similarly, some CC make me wait days for a statement, as if printing 
paper, when they could generate the pdf from their RDBMS for me interactively 
one second after midnight after the cycle!
On Monday, June 3, 2024 at 11:37:12 AM EDT, R Losey  
wrote:   

 

On Sat, Jun 1, 2024 at 3:40 PM David G. Pickett via gnucash-user 
 wrote:

I like to record my checks written on the day they were written, not cashed, 
but am frustrated that then I cannot check when they cleared!  Float is nice, 
especially if you get interest, but not something I bank on!  :D  Similarly, 
one bank puts a 3 day hold on transfers, so the money goes out one day and 
shows up in the other account 3-5 days later!  Maybe another field would be 
nice?  I don't want to create a limbo account and two transactions to hold the 
value when it is floating!


I have run into this same thing when transferring funds from one institution to 
another.  I have settled on the practice of using the date when it shows up at 
the "TO" institution rather than the "FROM" of the previous one; and I usually 
enter it when the "FROM" initiates the transfer... so there is a future 
transaction when I enter it to know that it is "in transit"
-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8  
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Re: [GNC] Need help with eBay - tagging multiple sales into one payout hitting checking two business days later

[R Losey]

On Sat, Jun 1, 2024 at 3:40 PM David G. Pickett via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> I like to record my checks written on the day they were written, not
> cashed, but am frustrated that then I cannot check when they cleared!
> Float is nice, especially if you get interest, but not something I bank
> on!  :D  Similarly, one bank puts a 3 day hold on transfers, so the money
> goes out one day and shows up in the other account 3-5 days later!  Maybe
> another field would be nice?  I don't want to create a limbo account and
> two transactions to hold the value when it is floating!
>

I have run into this same thing when transferring funds from one
institution to another.  I have settled on the practice of using the date
when it shows up at the "TO" institution rather than the "FROM" of the
previous one; and I usually enter it when the "FROM" initiates the
transfer... so there is a future transaction when I enter it to know that
it is "in transit"

-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] Need help with eBay - tagging multiple sales into one payout hitting checking two business days later

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 6/1/2024 4:39 PM, David G. Pickett via gnucash-user wrote:

I like to record my checks written on the day they were written, not cashed, 
but am frustrated that then I cannot check when they cleared!


Well technically should be recorded when delivered, with delivered 
meaning "constructively delivered" << when you mail them >> You should 
NOT be tracking "float". Legally that money isn't yours any more even 
though sitting in your bank account until the check clears. The reason 
that just WRITING the check (that date) has no meaning is until you send 
it, could just change your mind and rip it up. But as many do, I use the 
date written even though might not be be immediately picked up by the PO 
<< say I put in the mailbox after collection on Saturday and Monday is a 
Federal holiday -- won't get postmarked till Tuesday at the earliest -- 
the postmark date has legal significance >>


Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] Need help with eBay - tagging multiple sales into one payout hitting checking two business days later

[David Cousens]

David,

AFAIK the reconcile "R" column has three settings ,"n","c","y". If you
manually record a transaction it should be set at "n". The "c" setting
indicates that a transaction has been cleared and can be set to this
when for example the money either appears in your account or when it
has been taken out of your account. It is set to "y" when you do a
reconciliation against a statement.

David Cousens
 

On Sat, 2024-06-01 at 20:39 +, David G. Pickett via gnucash-user
wrote:
> I like to record my checks written on the day they were written, not
> cashed, but am frustrated that then I cannot check when they
> cleared!  Float is nice, especially if you get interest, but not
> something I bank on!  :D  Similarly, one bank puts a 3 day hold on
> transfers, so the money goes out one day and shows up in the other
> account 3-5 days later!  Maybe another field would be nice?  I don't
> want to create a limbo account and two transactions to hold the value
> when it is floating!
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Re: [GNC] Need help with eBay - tagging multiple sales into one payout hitting checking two business days later

[David G. Pickett via gnucash-user]

I like to record my checks written on the day they were written, not cashed, 
but am frustrated that then I cannot check when they cleared!  Float is nice, 
especially if you get interest, but not something I bank on!  :D  Similarly, 
one bank puts a 3 day hold on transfers, so the money goes out one day and 
shows up in the other account 3-5 days later!  Maybe another field would be 
nice?  I don't want to create a limbo account and two transactions to hold the 
value when it is floating!
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Re: [GNC] Need help with eBay - tagging multiple sales into one payout hitting checking two business days later

[David Cousens]

Bruce.
There should be no problem just adding additional lines for each sale
and shipping label purchase and fee transaction to the single
transaction with the debit entry to your check account being the payout
figure. 

Alternatively if you have the gross amount of each sale available you
can calculate what you receive from each sale and could post each
individual sale as a transaction and instead of debiting your cheque
account, debit an accounts receivable account. When you record the
transaction for Ebay's payment to you at the end of the day, you credit
the accounts receivable and then debit your cheque account. The amounts
should match.

What is more appropraite will depend on your reporting requirements and
taxation legislation. This is where you need your local accountant.

David Cousens

On Fri, 2024-05-31 at 10:25 -0400, Bruce Griffis wrote:
> I’m looking for help in figuring out GnuCash for a small eBay
> reseller, 
> basically selling items from home, but occasionally purchasing an
> item 
> for resale. I’m looking at this from the perspective of viewing sales
> from the My eBay / Selling / Payments / Total Sales page.
> 
> 
> Under Assets, I have Checking account, Savings account, Cash account
> and 
> eBay Inventory account (I get that GnuCash does not support inventory
> – 
> I just build this using a CSV export from Libre Office Calc). Under 
> liabilities I have a secured credit card.
> 
> 
> Under Income I have eBay Transactions (and I want this to reflect the
> eBay All Transactions page). Under expenses I have eBay Final Value 
> Fees, eBay Shipping Labels and eBay Refunds. I also have standard
> small 
> business chart of accounts to support basics of purchasing boxes,
> bubble 
> wrap, bubble mailers, tape, poly bags, …
> 
> 
> When I look at making just one sale in a day, this approach works
> pretty 
> well:
> 
> On eBay All Transactions I have one entry that gives Date,
> Description 
> (the item that was sold),
> 
> Amount (this is gross amount), Fees (this is eBay Final Value fees),
> Net 
> (the net amount I receive – if I pay shipping (offer free shipping),
> net 
> gets reduced by my shipping label costs), Total Funds.
> 
> 
> I then see a second transaction under All Transactions for the
> purchase 
> of the shipping label. This includes Date, Description, Amount and
> Net. 
> Since Total Amount is the amount in this account before payout, my
> total 
> amount in this account gets modified (it gets reduced by shipping
> label 
> amount).
> 
> 
> I then see a third transaction. The third is my payout. This includes
> Date, Description, Amount and Total Amount. Amount is the dollar
> amount 
> that hits my checking account in two business days. Total Amount is
> the 
> Total in this account (eBay Funds? I need to figure out what to 
> descriptively call it). If I only had one sale in a day and did not
> make 
> any new sales then Total is zero.
> 
> 
> To reflect this, I enter a split transaction.
> 
> I enter the Date, Description and Gross amount for the sale.
> 
> I enter another transaction in the split. This is Date, Description, 
> eBay Final Fees (an expense). This goes into Expense account eBay
> Final 
> Fees.
> 
> I enter another transaction in the split. This is Date, Description, 
> Shipping label cost and goes to eBay Shipping Labels expense account.
> 
> I enter a third transaction. This is my payout. It usually simply 
> matches Imbalance-USD. This goes to my Income account Checking.
> 
> 
> When I look at my checking account, I can match it by the dollar
> amount, 
> but since payouts post in two business days, the date does not match
> up. 
> But it is simple enough to figure out.
> 
> 
> Things get way out of hand when I make multiple sales in one day. I 
> would enter a split transaction for every sale, so if I had four 
> transaction – I would show four split transactions made up of the
> sale, 
> the final value fees, and the shipping label. However – I would only 
> have one payout. So if I take the income from the sale and post it 
> directly to checking, I end up adding 1 of 4, 2 of 4, 3 of 4, … to
> the 
> front of the description field. Then when looking at my checking
> account 
> – I would need to add together each individual transaction to equal
> my 
> payout. Now I am not matching on date (posted two business days
> later) 
> and amount (I need to add individual sales together to correlate with
> the days payout.
> 
> 
> Additionally, Refunds get pulled out of the running eBay Funds
> account 
> (that I need to create in GnuCash). If the funds in that account
> aren’t 
> enough t cover it, the refund comes out of checking 

Re: [GNC] Need help with eBay - tagging multiple sales into one payout hitting checking two business days later

[Jim DeLaHunt]

Bruce:

Welcome to GnuCash, congratulations on the eBay business, and I hope it 
goes well for you.


It sounds like your question is not about GnuCash, it is about 
accounting. Once you know how the information should get tracked as an 
accounting matter, it will be straightforward to explain how to record 
that information using GnuCash as the recording tool.


Do you have an accountant advising you?  If so, ask them for their 
advice about how to record this information.  Have you read an 
introductory accounting textbook?  If not, maybe this is a good time for 
that learning.


You say,

…Under Income I have eBay Transactions (and I want this to reflect the 
eBay All Transactions page).…


From what you describe, this sounds to me like it should be an Asset, 
not Income. It is something like Accounts Receivable from eBay. The eBay 
All Transactions page as you describe it lists a sale, where eBay starts 
to owe you money, then a deduction for cost of sales, where eBay reduces 
the amount they owe you, then a payout, where eBay reduces what they owe 
you to zero by sending you money. So: it sounds to me like the type of 
this account should be Asset, not Income.


…Things get way out of hand when I make multiple sales in one day. I 
would enter a split transaction for every sale, so if I had four 
transaction – I would show four split transactions made up of the 
sale, the final value fees, and the shipping label. However – I would 
only have one payout. So if I take the income from the sale and post 
it directly to checking, I end up adding 1 of 4, 2 of 4, 3 of 4, … to 
the front of the description field. Then when looking at my checking 
account – I would need to add together each individual transaction to 
equal my payout.…
It sounds like you should be entering only one transaction from the eBay 
Accounts Receivable account to the chequing account, to correspond to 
the one payout per day. There is no need to make a transaction between 
these two accounts for each eBay sale. The amount of the one daily 
transaction equals the amount of the eBay payout, and the amount which 
arrives in your chequing account.


Note that the balance in your eBay Accounts Receivable account starts at 
zero each day, increases as eBay makes sales, decreases as eBay charges 
you fees, then drop to zero when eBay makes the daily payout.


…When I look at my checking account, I can match it by the dollar 
amount, but since payouts post in two business days, the date does not 
match up. But it is simple enough to figure out.… 
In my finances, it is completely normal for a transaction to take 
multiple days to play out, so the statements from various parties to the 
transaction will have different dates.  For instance, I pay a store by 
credit card on May 1st. When I get my credit card statement, it has two 
dates for the transaction: transaction date, and posting date.  The 
transaction date is May 3rd, because the store did not report the sale 
to the credit card company for a little while.  The posting date is May 
4th, because the credit card company also took a little time to process 
the transaction.


GnuCash only has one date field per transaction, so I choose one of 
those three transaction dates as the representative date to record in 
GnuCash.


It is possible to enter multiple GnuCash transactions to record the 
separate steps and the time delay in transactions, but I almost never 
find it worth the bother.


Does this answer your question?
  —Jim DeLaHunt


On 2024-05-31 10:25, Bruce Griffis wrote:
I’m looking for help in figuring out GnuCash for a small eBay 
reseller, basically selling items from home, but occasionally 
purchasing an item for resale. I’m looking at this from the 
perspective of viewing sales from the My eBay / Selling / Payments / 
Total Sales page.



Under Assets, I have Checking account, Savings account, Cash account 
and eBay Inventory account (I get that GnuCash does not support 
inventory – I just build this using a CSV export from Libre Office 
Calc). Under liabilities I have a secured credit card.



Under Income I have eBay Transactions (and I want this to reflect the 
eBay All Transactions page). Under expenses I have eBay Final Value 
Fees, eBay Shipping Labels and eBay Refunds. I also have standard 
small business chart of accounts to support basics of purchasing 
boxes, bubble wrap, bubble mailers, tape, poly bags, …



When I look at making just one sale in a day, this approach works 
pretty well:


On eBay All Transactions I have one entry that gives Date, Description 
(the item that was sold),


Amount (this is gross amount), Fees (this is eBay Final Value fees), 
Net (the net amount I receive – if I pay shipping (offer free 
shipping), net gets reduced by my shipping label costs), Total Funds.



I then see a second transaction under All Transactions for the 
purchase of the shipping label. This includes Date, Description, 
Amount and Net. Since Total Amount is the amount

[GNC] Need help with eBay - tagging multiple sales into one payout hitting checking two business days later

[Bruce Griffis]

I’m looking for help in figuring out GnuCash for a small eBay reseller, 
basically selling items from home, but occasionally purchasing an item 
for resale. I’m looking at this from the perspective of viewing sales 
from the My eBay / Selling / Payments / Total Sales page.



Under Assets, I have Checking account, Savings account, Cash account and 
eBay Inventory account (I get that GnuCash does not support inventory – 
I just build this using a CSV export from Libre Office Calc). Under 
liabilities I have a secured credit card.



Under Income I have eBay Transactions (and I want this to reflect the 
eBay All Transactions page). Under expenses I have eBay Final Value 
Fees, eBay Shipping Labels and eBay Refunds. I also have standard small 
business chart of accounts to support basics of purchasing boxes, bubble 
wrap, bubble mailers, tape, poly bags, …



When I look at making just one sale in a day, this approach works pretty 
well:


On eBay All Transactions I have one entry that gives Date, Description 
(the item that was sold),


Amount (this is gross amount), Fees (this is eBay Final Value fees), Net 
(the net amount I receive – if I pay shipping (offer free shipping), net 
gets reduced by my shipping label costs), Total Funds.



I then see a second transaction under All Transactions for the purchase 
of the shipping label. This includes Date, Description, Amount and Net. 
Since Total Amount is the amount in this account before payout, my total 
amount in this account gets modified (it gets reduced by shipping label 
amount).



I then see a third transaction. The third is my payout. This includes 
Date, Description, Amount and Total Amount. Amount is the dollar amount 
that hits my checking account in two business days. Total Amount is the 
Total in this account (eBay Funds? I need to figure out what to 
descriptively call it). If I only had one sale in a day and did not make 
any new sales then Total is zero.



To reflect this, I enter a split transaction.

I enter the Date, Description and Gross amount for the sale.

I enter another transaction in the split. This is Date, Description, 
eBay Final Fees (an expense). This goes into Expense account eBay Final 
Fees.


I enter another transaction in the split. This is Date, Description, 
Shipping label cost and goes to eBay Shipping Labels expense account.


I enter a third transaction. This is my payout. It usually simply 
matches Imbalance-USD. This goes to my Income account Checking.



When I look at my checking account, I can match it by the dollar amount, 
but since payouts post in two business days, the date does not match up. 
But it is simple enough to figure out.



Things get way out of hand when I make multiple sales in one day. I 
would enter a split transaction for every sale, so if I had four 
transaction – I would show four split transactions made up of the sale, 
the final value fees, and the shipping label. However – I would only 
have one payout. So if I take the income from the sale and post it 
directly to checking, I end up adding 1 of 4, 2 of 4, 3 of 4, … to the 
front of the description field. Then when looking at my checking account 
– I would need to add together each individual transaction to equal my 
payout. Now I am not matching on date (posted two business days later) 
and amount (I need to add individual sales together to correlate with 
the days payout.



Additionally, Refunds get pulled out of the running eBay Funds account 
(that I need to create in GnuCash). If the funds in that account aren’t 
enough t cover it, the refund comes out of checking as a direct debit.


Any recommendations on how I would show multiple sales in a day making 
up one entry into my checking account? Do I need another account – send 
my payouts there. Then group multiples in another split (if I can do 
that?) to show the days transactions? Or do I need to think about doing 
an accounts receivable kind of thing and bundle multiple transactions 
into an A/R account for the day for when I have more than one sale in a day?

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Re: [GNC] Help request starting out with Gnucash

[flywire]

https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2024-May/111808.html
> Does [Debits and Credits] make more sense now?

Yes, well put. That perspective would be worth reworking as a brief
information pane in the Guide.

>
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Re: [GNC] Help request starting out with Gnucash

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 5/5/2024 11:55 AM, ph hermes wrote:

what are the accounts you have set up in assets? it sounds like you only
have your equity balance. in my asset section, i have all my bank accounts,
petty cash, etc. as well. and i have separate accounts for each of my
equity assets (often sub accounts)... not just 1 account called equity.


Equity assets?

a) Equity reflects OWNERSHIP. You can indeed have sub accounts under 
equity, and need them when there are multiple owners (partners, 
shareholders, etc.)


b) You may be confusing "equity assets" (assets that represent equity in 
something) and "equity" in your books. Under "assets" you could have 
investment assets that are of type "equities" meaning representing an 
ownership interest in something (stocks, for example) as well as ones 
that are of type "liability" (some entity owes you something, say a 
bond). Do not confuse with "liabilities" and "equity" in your books. 
Keep in mind "from whose perspective". From YOUR perspective those 
investment holdings are just assets (though you might want them under 
separate parents).


Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] Help request starting out with Gnucash

[ph hermes]

what are the accounts you have set up in assets? it sounds like you only
have your equity balance. in my asset section, i have all my bank accounts,
petty cash, etc. as well. and i have separate accounts for each of my
equity assets (often sub accounts)... not just 1 account called equity.

 - ph
~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~:~
paula hendricks ~:~ san francisco CA ~:~ 415.310.1168


On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 10:18 AM Brian Higgins via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> I really need to talk with someone to get this right. My equity opening
> balance is $ 6802.59 ( close enough) on 1/1 24,  and my check register
> is $3892.258 on 1/1/24 and my petty cash is $5 on 1/1 /24, so why does
> my equity account value on show up as equal to the assets?  I thought
> the equity account would show as the balance of all owners investment in
> the business, and as a liability, and thus a negative number.  Would a
> bookkeeper or accountant who may not be familiar with Gnucash be able to
> help me figure this out?
> Note: I have returned the Equity parent account to placeholder, and I
> see there is an Opening Balance Equity as a child account of that. So
> really, is my opening balance equity just the total of my assets on
> 1/1/24, or is it a register snapshot of a capital account, as of Jan
> 1st,  meaning all the $ I have shoveled into this turkey since day one,
> starting back in  2021? I feel I should enter $ 6802.59, and I think
> that goes on the credit side,  ( an increase in GnuCash)) since it is a
> 'special liability', where the bank account was debited that amount,
> over time, in 2021. I am starting these books fresh as of Jan 1 2024.
> Thank you, I just need some hands on help getting me started.
>
>
> Brian
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Re: [GNC] Help request starting out with Gnucash

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 5/4/2024 10:53 PM, flywire wrote:

David, the  guide even warns that accounting debits and credits are
used contrary to the way most people understand them. The average
punter will be wrong, and if they get it right the next punter will
likely bet they are wrong.


Yes, depends on perspective, your point of view or the bank's.

But also  and explaining where YOUR point of view comes from (the origin 
of the terms) think of who in say 1200 CE would be needing to keep 
books. What sort of business would you be in? A moneylender, of course. 
And keep in mind that in 1200 in Europe, if literate, probably Latin not 
a strange language (especially not when dealing across multiple local 
languages).


Debit comes from "he owes" (me). In other words, your assets are debts 
owed to you as well as cash on hand available to be loaned out. Thus the 
money you have on deposit at some bank is a debit because the bank owes 
you that money.


Credit comes from "he trusts" (me). In other words, your liabilities. 
Money you owe somebody else that they are trusting you can pay back. 
It's why on the statement from the bank your account balance is a credit 
(you are trusting the bank will give you this money of you ask for it) 
but in your books a debit because the bank owes this money to you.


Initially (way back then) there were no special accounts of type 
"income" and "expense" so the other side of a transaction we would call 
income or expense was equity. Immediately entered against equity. That 
made it easy to see at any moment what to see what total equity was but 
hard to look up the totals for any particular expense. Had to do work to 
answer questions like "how much was our interest income last month?"  
(remember, we are moneylenders). So a couple hundred years ago (I don;t 
know exactly when) somebody got the bright idea to have TEMPORARY 
accounts of type "income" and "expense" of fundamental type "equity". 
Instead of the other side of the transactions immediately being main 
equity use these "temporarily" and only every so often transfer to main 
equity through a process known as "close thew books" with this process, 
along the way, creating a report called "profit and loss" << originally 
this was another temporary account, closed to equity by the net profit 
or loss amount >>


BTW, a moneylender WOULD be wanting to have liabilities. These would 
have come into being by exchange with another moneylender in some other 
town/country. These documents were useful in TRADE, serving as a way of 
transporting money without the risk of bandits stealing the gold or 
silver money on the way. You are a moneylender in place A. A merchant 
planning to travel to B might come to you and ask "Do you have a debt 
document from a moneylender in B?" If you did, you could sell him that 
debt (endorse it over to him) collecting a fee for the service. He then 
could travel to B and present it there for payment. Useless for a bandit 
to steal as it wasn't made out "pay to the bearer" but "pay to some 
specific person" (the merchant).


Note something here. If two banks are exchanging these IOU's no silver 
or gold has changed hands. Who says that the silver or gold has to 
actually exist? In other words, these banks have created money and all 
will be well only as long as they have enough gold and silver on hand to 
pay out when any of these IOU's are presented. Does the term "he trusts" 
make more sense now? There was no FDIC guaranteeing the deposits. That 
is a very recent change. A hundred years ago you WERE trusting that the 
bank could give you back what you had on deposit there.


Michael D Novack

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Re: [GNC] Help request starting out with Gnucash

[flywire]

David, the  guide even warns that accounting debits and credits are
used contrary to the way most people understand them. The average
punter will be wrong, and if they get it right the next punter will
likely bet they are wrong.

https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2024-May/111801.html

Generally then the sense of debits and credits in a bank statement is the
> reverse of what they mean in your personal accounts.

Exactly, perspective. It's like saying the sun is on your left side. Much
clearer to say it's on the western side, or it's a deposit to a specific
account (though I agree some of the simple terms are confusing and could be
revised).

It's not really important though because after a few transactions you know
which side to use, especially if you did the tutorial in the Guide first.

BTW, the referenced thread didn't reach a conclusion to the example in July.
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Re: [GNC] Help Transferring saved reports to another computer

[David Carlson]

Aha!  I was careless and I put the reports file in the books subdirectory
by mistake.  It helps to take a break and look again.  All is well now.

On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 7:59 PM David Carlson 
wrote:

> I am trying to copy saved reports from a computer running GnuCash 4.8 to a
> windows computer running GnuCash 5.6.1.  I successfully copied the .gcm
> files that I wanted but the saved-reports-2.8 file did not bring the saved
> reports.  Is this a problem with release 5.6.1 or did I do something wrong?
>
> --
> David Carlson
>


-- 
David Carlson
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[GNC] Help Transferring saved reports to another computer

[David Carlson]

I am trying to copy saved reports from a computer running GnuCash 4.8 to a
windows computer running GnuCash 5.6.1.  I successfully copied the .gcm
files that I wanted but the saved-reports-2.8 file did not bring the saved
reports.  Is this a problem with release 5.6.1 or did I do something wrong?

-- 
David Carlson
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Re: [GNC] Help request starting out with Gnucash

[David Cousens]

Understood that those without an accounting background often
misunderstand what debits and credits actually mean. 

I don't know whether the thread you referenced reached a conclusion but
the accounting definitions of debit and credit and how they are used in
accounting is however formally logically self consistent.  The same
definitions are used world wide in accounting and GnuCash is an
accounting program and it fully implements the rules of accounting. 

The developers have provided the facility to use the non formal
termsthat is consistent with the formal label  but when it gets down to
how the program works and sorting out whether a user is using the
program correctly it strictly obeys the formal definitions and rules of
accounting and has to.

There is no confusion if you know and apply the formal definitions. On
the contrary the informal labels are more open to misinterpretation
unless you apply a similar set of definitions and rules to them and
those rules tend to be far more complex and appear to be far more
arbitrary. The effort involved in becoming failiiar and applying the
formal definitions is far less than for the informal ones and it is the
core of how double entry accounting works to identify and minimise
entry errors.

The accounting definition relies on the concept of an entity whose
transactions are being accounted for and in the accounts of that
entity, the concept of an accounting period and  the accounting
equation then expresses the realtionship between the various types of
accounts in the form:

Assets = Liabilities + Equity + (Income - Expenses)

The reason that Income and Expenses are grouped with Equity is that
they are actually equity accounts recording the increases and decreases
in Equity during the current accounting period and the minus sign befor
e Expenses indicates that expenses decrease equity.

A debit increases the balance of an account of the types on the LHS of
the equal sign and a credit decreases the balance of an account of that
type on the LHS. 

For accounts of a type on the RHS, a credit increases the balance of an
account and a on the RHS (unless the account type is preceded by a
minus sign in which case it is a decrease) and conversely a debit
decreases the balance of accounts of that type again with reversal
where the type is preceded by a minus sign.

The steps in interpreting a statement are:
1 Determine the entity for which the statement has been prepared and
applies to;
2 Apply the definitions/rules above to determine whether a particular
entry is a debit or a credit for the type of the account in the hands
of that entity.

A statement prepared by a bank is generally prepared from the
perspective of the bank. Similarly another business providing a
statement of your transactions with it will be prepared as those
transactions apply to the entity which is that other business.

For a bank your savings/cheque account is a Liability whereas for them
a loan or overdraft to you is an Asset whereas in your hands a savings
or cheque account is an Asset and a loan or overdarft will be a
Liability. Generally then the sense of debits and credits in a bank
statement is the reverse of what they mean in your personal accounts.
(That is of course unless the bank tries to be helpful and supplies the
statement as if you are the entity the statement applies to without
explicitly stating that).

David Cousens


On Sun, 2024-05-05 at 09:40 +1000, flywire wrote:
> > 
> > You need to get a grasp of double entry bookkeeping concepts...
> 
> I agree but I wouldn't focus on the formal meaning of Credit/Debit,
> even if
> you understand it most people have the wrong understanding -
> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-May/106929.html
>  - and
> following the thread into July it gets screwy and unresolved.
> 
> The Guide has a dozen transactions, and actually entering them into
> GnuCash
> while you work through the documentation should give you enough
> experience,
> confidence, and understanding to use the Common features of GnuCash.
> Sometimes a tutorial concept is not immediately clear but becomes
> clearer a
> little later on. Unfortunately, the tutorial does not continue
> through to
> the Advanced (mainly business) features.
> 
> Regards
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[GNC] Help request starting out with Gnucash

[flywire]

>
> You need to get a grasp of double entry bookkeeping concepts...

I agree but I wouldn't focus on the formal meaning of Credit/Debit, even if
you understand it most people have the wrong understanding -
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-May/106929.html - and
following the thread into July it gets screwy and unresolved.

The Guide has a dozen transactions, and actually entering them into GnuCash
while you work through the documentation should give you enough experience,
confidence, and understanding to use the Common features of GnuCash.
Sometimes a tutorial concept is not immediately clear but becomes clearer a
little later on. Unfortunately, the tutorial does not continue through to
the Advanced (mainly business) features.

Regards
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Re: [GNC] Help request starting out with Gnucash

[David Cousens]

Brian,

The entry recording your opening balaces will have debit amounts to
your asset accounts and equal credit amounts to the Equity:Opening
Balance accounts. For Liability accounts the entry will be credit
amounts with corresponding  debit amounts to the Equity:Opening
Balances. 

This is how double antry accounting works, each transaction consists of
at least one debit and one credit entry (there can be more) where the
sum of the debit and credit entries are equal.

If you set the preferences (Edit->Preferences->Account_>Use Formal
Accounting Labels checked)  and in the Register defaults check Auto-
split Register, when you select a transaction it will open with two or
more lines. AT least one line usually the first will affect the
register you are working in and subsequent entries will affect other
accounts.

Your opening transaction for the amount of your check account will
appear as follows in the Account and Debit and Entry columns of the
register:

Account  Debit  Credit
Asset: Cheque Account3892.25
Equity: Opening Balance 3892.25

with similar entries for all your other assest accounts and entries
with reversed debit and creits for the liability accounts.

If this does not make sense then you will need to read a bit more on
the basics of double entry accounting. There is a brief summary int the
GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide
(https://code.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/chapter_basics.html) .

David Cousens

On Sat, 2024-05-04 at 13:18 -0400, Brian Higgins via gnucash-user
wrote:
> I really need to talk with someone to get this right. My equity
> opening 
> balance is $ 6802.59 ( close enough) on 1/1 24,  and my check
> register 
> is $3892.258 on 1/1/24 and my petty cash is $5 on 1/1 /24, so why
> does 
> my equity account value on show up as equal to the assets?  I thought
> the equity account would show as the balance of all owners investment
> in 
> the business, and as a liability, and thus a negative number.  Would
> a 
> bookkeeper or accountant who may not be familiar with Gnucash be able
> to 
> help me figure this out?
> Note: I have returned the Equity parent account to placeholder, and I
> see there is an Opening Balance Equity as a child account of that. So
> really, is my opening balance equity just the total of my assets on 
> 1/1/24, or is it a register snapshot of a capital account, as of Jan 
> 1st,  meaning all the $ I have shoveled into this turkey since day
> one, 
> starting back in  2021? I feel I should enter $ 6802.59, and I think 
> that goes on the credit side,  ( an increase in GnuCash)) since it is
> a 
> 'special liability', where the bank account was debited that amount, 
> over time, in 2021. I am starting these books fresh as of Jan 1 2024.
> Thank you, I just need some hands on help getting me started.
> 
> 
> Brian
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Re: [GNC] Help request starting out with Gnucash

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 5/4/2024 1:18 PM, Brian Higgins via gnucash-user wrote:
I really need to talk with someone to get this right. My equity 
opening balance is $ 6802.59 ( close enough) on 1/1 24,  and my check 
register is $3892.258 on 1/1/24 and my petty cash is $5 on 1/1 /24, so 
why does my equity account value on show up as equal to the assets?  I 
thought the equity account would show as the balance of all owners 
investment in the business, and as a liability, and thus a negative 
number.  Would a bookkeeper or accountant who may not be familiar with 
Gnucash be able to help me figure this out?
Note: I have returned the Equity parent account to placeholder, and I 
see there is an Opening Balance Equity as a child account of that. So 
really, is my opening balance equity just the total of my assets on 
1/1/24, or is it a register snapshot of a capital account, as of Jan 
1st,  meaning all the $ I have shoveled into this turkey since day 
one, starting back in  2021? I feel I should enter $ 6802.59, and I 
think that goes on the credit side,  ( an increase in GnuCash)) since 
it is a 'special liability', where the bank account was debited that 
amount, over time, in 2021. I am starting these books fresh as of Jan 
1 2024.

Thank you, I just need some hands on help getting me started.


You need to get a grasp of double entry bookkeeping concepts, not just 
"doing it using gnucash" as opposed to say "pen and ink on paper". The 
tutorial might or might not be enough. If you need more on basics, seek 
out a standard "bookkeeping or  accounting 101" .text.


a) At the start, it might (or might not) forget all about negative 
numbers. After all, double entry bookkeeping goes back to before 
European math accepted negative numbers (yes, it IS that old). The 
"senses" are debit and credit (not positive and negative)


b) Yes, if you have NO liabilities, then total assets (debit) equals 
total equity (credit)


c) In a set of books, total debits will equal total credits. Easy to 
see. The set of books starts out empty. Each transaction will have at 
least one debit and one credit and the total debits on the transaction 
will equal the total credits on the transaction.


d) The shortcut of allowing you to create accounts with "starting 
values" has confused you by hiding the "c" (the underlying transaction). 
You possibly would've been less confused had you been required to create 
accounts at zero and then enter an explicit transaction to set the 
initial value because then you would have SEEN the other side of that 
transaction << the "starting balance" account under Equity >> This would 
especially be true if this business had multiple owners.


Michael D Novack


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[GNC] Help request starting out with Gnucash

[Brian Higgins via gnucash-user]

I really need to talk with someone to get this right. My equity opening 
balance is $ 6802.59 ( close enough) on 1/1 24,  and my check register 
is $3892.258 on 1/1/24 and my petty cash is $5 on 1/1 /24, so why does 
my equity account value on show up as equal to the assets?  I thought 
the equity account would show as the balance of all owners investment in 
the business, and as a liability, and thus a negative number.  Would a 
bookkeeper or accountant who may not be familiar with Gnucash be able to 
help me figure this out?
Note: I have returned the Equity parent account to placeholder, and I 
see there is an Opening Balance Equity as a child account of that. So 
really, is my opening balance equity just the total of my assets on 
1/1/24, or is it a register snapshot of a capital account, as of Jan 
1st,  meaning all the $ I have shoveled into this turkey since day one, 
starting back in  2021? I feel I should enter $ 6802.59, and I think 
that goes on the credit side,  ( an increase in GnuCash)) since it is a 
'special liability', where the bank account was debited that amount, 
over time, in 2021. I am starting these books fresh as of Jan 1 2024.

Thank you, I just need some hands on help getting me started.


Brian
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Re: [GNC] Help with setting up stock price updates

[Anna Scott]

   Hello David, thanks for your reply …. I confess though that I’m not
   sure what to do with the answer and don’t know how to uninstall
   Finance::Quote … I also dont find a \bin directory.   Maybe i need baby
   steps help :)

   Anna
   Sent from my iPad

 On Apr 17, 2024, at 15:28, david amaral  wrote:

   
   cpanm Finance::Quote
   go to gnucash\bin
   perl gnc-fq-update
   might have to uninstall finance quote if problems
   cpanm --uninstall Finance::Quote
   On Wednesday, April 17, 2024 at 03:10:48 PM GMT-7, Anna Scott
wrote:
   Hello all … I’m advancing beyond basics for the first time and am stuck
   trying to create a new security in pricing editor - under “Quote Source
   Information” it gives error message that “Warning: Finance: Quote not
   installed properly”.
   I’ve seen other references to this as a bug … but don’t know if it’s
   been resolved?  I’m using GNUCASH 5.3 on a MAC with Sonoma 14.0 .
   Id appreciate any and all help!  Thanks in advance,
   A
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Re: [GNC] Help with setting up stock price updates

[david amaral via gnucash-user]

 cpanm Finance::Quotego to gnucash\binperl gnc-fq-update
might have to uninstall finance quote if problemscpanm --uninstall 
Finance::Quote


On Wednesday, April 17, 2024 at 03:10:48 PM GMT-7, Anna Scott 
 wrote:  
 
 Hello all … I’m advancing beyond basics for the first time and am stuck trying 
to create a new security in pricing editor - under “Quote Source Information” 
it gives error message that “Warning: Finance: Quote not installed properly”.  

I’ve seen other references to this as a bug … but don’t know if it’s been 
resolved?  I’m using GNUCASH 5.3 on a MAC with Sonoma 14.0 .

Id appreciate any and all help!  Thanks in advance,

A


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Re: [GNC] Help with setting up stock price updates

[Anna Scott]

Hello all … I’m advancing beyond basics for the first time and am stuck trying 
to create a new security in pricing editor - under “Quote Source Information” 
it gives error message that “Warning: Finance: Quote not installed properly”.  

I’ve seen other references to this as a bug … but don’t know if it’s been 
resolved?  I’m using GNUCASH 5.3 on a MAC with Sonoma 14.0 .

Id appreciate any and all help!  Thanks in advance,

A


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Re: [GNC] Can I get help with GnuCash here

[David H]

If it’s only happening with one register I’d be checking I don’t have any
filtering on for that particular register ?

Cheers David H.

On Mon, 8 Apr 2024 at 5:28 pm, Geoff  wrote:

> Hi Bob
>
> First, a matter of email list etiquette.  Please always reply to the
> list email address (gnucash-user@gnucash.org) so that everyone can see
> your questions and answers.
>
> Second, unfortunately I don't have any experience with either MAC or the
> GnuCash OFX/QFX importer, so I can't assist you with this particular
> problem apart from a couple of pointers:
> * Has the bank that provides the 4th credit card recently changed their
> IT systems?
> * Can you compare one of the failed OFX/QFX files to an earlier
> (successful) version, or to one from another bank?
> * There have been some changes to the OFX/QFX routines in GnuCash
> version 5 (https://gnucash.org/news.phtml) - perhaps you could try
> upgrading to the latest version?  *Be sure to take a backup first*.
>
> Hopefully someone else on this list can chime in with further suggestions.
>
> Regards
>
> Geoff
> =
>
>
> On 8/04/2024 3:10 pm, R7 wrote:
> > Geoff,
> > I am using Ver 4.9, Build ID 4.9+(2021-12-18) of GnuCash.
> > My computer is a MAC M1 with Sonoma 14.2.1.
> > Problem: I have 4 credit cards where I go into each in order to download
> > the transactions. I use OFX/QFX for my downloads. Three of the four work
> > perfectly however on the fourth transaction-download, all the
> > transactions download perfectly. I then allocate each transaction to an
> > expense or income account. When I finished and all the transactions are
> > in the green I hit the submit button and all of the transactions
> > disappear as they should. Then I look over to my register for that
> > particular credit card and all those transactions that I just submitted
> > disappear. I then Iook throughout all my register and cannot find those
> > transactions...they just went poof. It is strange it happens on only one
> > credit card account.
> > Please note, I have been using GnuCash for several years and have never
> > had this problem up until now...it is most disturbing.
> > Can you help me?
> > Bob
> >
> > On 4/7/24 8:19 PM, Geoff wrote:
> >> Greetings Dr. Robert L. Kieffer, and welcome to the wonderful world of
> >> GnuCash!
> >>
> >> Yes, you most certainly have come to the right place.  Just send
> >> through the following information:
> >> * Your computer operating system type & version:
> >> (Windows 10 / Linux Mint 21.3 / macOS Sonoma / ...)
> >> * Your version of GnuCash
> >> (Help -> About)
> >> * Your question / problem
> >>
> >> And, to paraphrase the former president you quoted, "Do you best, the
> >> Internet will do the rest."
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Geoff
> >> =
> >>
> >> On 8/04/2024 10:56 am, R7 wrote:
> >> >I need some help with GnuCash..is this the place to get it?
> >> >
> >> >*R7eagle*
> >> >
> >> >Dr. Robert L. Kieffer
> >> >
> >> >Waukegan, IL.
> >> >
> >> >*r...@r7eagle.com*
> >> >
> >> >224-800-1128
> >> >
> >> >**
> >> >
> >> >/There is nothing new in this world, only history we do not know!/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *R7eagle*
> >
> > Dr. Robert L. Kieffer
> >
> > Waukegan, IL.
> >
> > *r...@r7eagle.com*
> >
> > 224-800-1128
> >
> >
> >
> > **
> >
> > /There is nothing new in this world, only history we do not know!/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [GNC] Can I get help with GnuCash here

[Geoff]

Hi Bob

First, a matter of email list etiquette.  Please always reply to the 
list email address (gnucash-user@gnucash.org) so that everyone can see 
your questions and answers.


Second, unfortunately I don't have any experience with either MAC or the 
GnuCash OFX/QFX importer, so I can't assist you with this particular 
problem apart from a couple of pointers:
* Has the bank that provides the 4th credit card recently changed their 
IT systems?
* Can you compare one of the failed OFX/QFX files to an earlier 
(successful) version, or to one from another bank?
* There have been some changes to the OFX/QFX routines in GnuCash 
version 5 (https://gnucash.org/news.phtml) - perhaps you could try 
upgrading to the latest version?  *Be sure to take a backup first*.


Hopefully someone else on this list can chime in with further suggestions.

Regards

Geoff
=


On 8/04/2024 3:10 pm, R7 wrote:

Geoff,
I am using Ver 4.9, Build ID 4.9+(2021-12-18) of GnuCash.
My computer is a MAC M1 with Sonoma 14.2.1.
Problem: I have 4 credit cards where I go into each in order to download 
the transactions. I use OFX/QFX for my downloads. Three of the four work 
perfectly however on the fourth transaction-download, all the 
transactions download perfectly. I then allocate each transaction to an 
expense or income account. When I finished and all the transactions are 
in the green I hit the submit button and all of the transactions 
disappear as they should. Then I look over to my register for that 
particular credit card and all those transactions that I just submitted 
disappear. I then Iook throughout all my register and cannot find those 
transactions...they just went poof. It is strange it happens on only one 
credit card account.
Please note, I have been using GnuCash for several years and have never 
had this problem up until now...it is most disturbing.

Can you help me?
Bob

On 4/7/24 8:19 PM, Geoff wrote:
Greetings Dr. Robert L. Kieffer, and welcome to the wonderful world of 
GnuCash!


Yes, you most certainly have come to the right place.  Just send 
through the following information:

* Your computer operating system type & version:
(Windows 10 / Linux Mint 21.3 / macOS Sonoma / ...)
* Your version of GnuCash
    (Help -> About)
* Your question / problem

And, to paraphrase the former president you quoted, "Do you best, the 
Internet will do the rest."


Regards

Geoff
=

On 8/04/2024 10:56 am, R7 wrote:
>I need some help with GnuCash..is this the place to get it?
>
>*R7eagle*
>
>Dr. Robert L. Kieffer
>
>Waukegan, IL.
>
>*r...@r7eagle.com*
>
>224-800-1128
>
>**
>
>/There is nothing new in this world, only history we do not know!/





*R7eagle*

Dr. Robert L. Kieffer

Waukegan, IL.

*r...@r7eagle.com*

224-800-1128



**

/There is nothing new in this world, only history we do not know!/







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Re: [GNC] Can I get help with GnuCash here

[Geoff]

Greetings Dr. Robert L. Kieffer, and welcome to the wonderful world of 
GnuCash!


Yes, you most certainly have come to the right place.  Just send through 
the following information:

* Your computer operating system type & version:
(Windows 10 / Linux Mint 21.3 / macOS Sonoma / ...)
* Your version of GnuCash
    (Help -> About)
* Your question / problem

And, to paraphrase the former president you quoted, "Do you best, the 
Internet will do the rest."


Regards

Geoff
=

On 8/04/2024 10:56 am, R7 wrote:
>I need some help with GnuCash..is this the place to get it?
>
>*R7eagle*
>
>Dr. Robert L. Kieffer
>
>Waukegan, IL.
>
>*r...@r7eagle.com*
>
>224-800-1128
>
>**
>
>/There is nothing new in this world, only history we do not know!/
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[GNC] Can I get help with GnuCash here

[R7]

I need some help with GnuCash..is this the place to get it?



*R7eagle*

Dr. Robert L. Kieffer

Waukegan, IL.

*r...@r7eagle.com*

224-800-1128



**

/There is nothing new in this world, only history we do not know!/





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Re: [GNC] New user looking for some reporting help

[R Losey]

I used Quicken, not QB, but I also became fed up with Quicken and Intuit
that I changed to GnuCash and haven't missed it a bit.

I really like GnuCash -- but the reports are not as out-of-the-box as they
are with Quicken; you usually have to tweak things to get them to work. I
don't remember what the  Balance and P reports showed in Quicken... what
I wanted is what I've spent, per month, and average to check against my
budget, and I think some kind person here told me about the Transaction
Report, which did what I needed.

I wish you the very best in your GnuCash experience!


On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 5:35 PM fromvendor  wrote:

> Hi, I'm trying to figure out how to get some reports like I used to get
> out of quickbooks.  QB has made me so mad that I've abandoned them for this
> year and I'm using GNUCash.
>
> I'm using Version 5.5.  (probably doesn't matter but I just today got the
> Quotes thing working (three failures to install - each one got further
> until 3rd time charm).  )
>
> I'm having difficulty on a few things that I can't seem to figure out how
> to do especially in regards to reporting.
>
> One set of reports I'd like is Balance and P reports with Monthly
> columns.
>
> So, I'd specify the overall date range (say 1 Jan to 31 March) and tell it
> I want columns for each month and a column for the total for the selected
> date range.
>
> Is this something that already exists?  Are there custom reports that can
> do this?  Are there "Add on" reports that I can get (and if so, where)?
>
> This message also serves as my first message using a mail list in about 20
> years so I'm hoping I've got it set up right.
>
> Blessings,
> -g
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>


-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] New user looking for some reporting help

[fromvendor]

Geoff,  thank you!!

It was the period duration that got me - I misinterpreted its meaning.  
Changing to One Month did the trick.

Thanks again!
-g

-Original Message-
From: Geoff [mailto:cleanoutmys...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2024 10:02 PM
To: fromvendor; 'gnucash-user@gnucash.org'
Subject: Re: [GNC] New user looking for some reporting help

See attached - hope this helps.

Period Duration granularity is Weekly / Fortnightly / Monthly / 
Quarterly / Half Yearly / Annually.

You can also set specific Start and End dates.

Regards

Geoff
=

On 3/04/2024 12:04 pm, fromvendor wrote:
> Geoff,
> That's it!  However I can't get it to produce right when I try it.
> 
> Can you send me relevant shots of your options for them?  I have a couple of 
> months of data but I only get two columns of numbers 1/1/24 and 12/31/24.
> 
> I'm still using 5.5 and 5.6 is new enough that I'll stay away for a bit 
> unless I "HAVE TO" go forward.  I've lived the bleeding edge for too many 
> years, I want to stay away from it if I can.
> 
> And thanks for the welcome!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Geoff [mailto:cleanoutmys...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2024 7:40 PM
> To: fromvendor; 'gnucash-user@gnucash.org'
> Subject: Re: [GNC] New user looking for some reporting help
> 
> And the "Income Statement (Multicolumn)" report works the same way - see
> attached.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Geoff
> =
> 
> On 3/04/2024 11:23 am, Geoff wrote:
>> Hi Greg, and welcome to the wonderful world of GnuCash!
>>
>> Try the "Balance Sheet (Multicolumn)" report and play around with the
>> Options - see attached screenshot.
>>
>> Windows 10 GnuCash v5.6 Build ID: git 5.6-2-g9f998892b5+(2024-04-01)
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Geoff
>> =
>>
>> On 3/04/2024 9:34 am, fromvendor wrote:
>>> Hi, I'm trying to figure out how to get some reports like I used to
>>> get out of quickbooks.  QB has made me so mad that I've abandoned them
>>> for this year and I'm using GNUCash.
>>>
>>> I'm using Version 5.5.  (probably doesn't matter but I just today got
>>> the Quotes thing working (three failures to install - each one got
>>> further until 3rd time charm).  )
>>>
>>> I'm having difficulty on a few things that I can't seem to figure out
>>> how to do especially in regards to reporting.
>>>
>>> One set of reports I'd like is Balance and P reports with Monthly
>>> columns.
>>>
>>> So, I'd specify the overall date range (say 1 Jan to 31 March) and
>>> tell it I want columns for each month and a column for the total for
>>> the selected date range.
>>>
>>> Is this something that already exists?  Are there custom reports that
>>> can do this?  Are there "Add on" reports that I can get (and if so,
>>> where)?
>>>
>>> This message also serves as my first message using a mail list in
>>> about 20 years so I'm hoping I've got it set up right.
>>>
>>> Blessings,
>>> -g
>>> ___
>>> gnucash-user mailing list
>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>>> -
>>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
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Re: [GNC] New user looking for some reporting help

[fromvendor]

Geoff,
That's it!  However I can't get it to produce right when I try it.

Can you send me relevant shots of your options for them?  I have a couple of 
months of data but I only get two columns of numbers 1/1/24 and 12/31/24.

I'm still using 5.5 and 5.6 is new enough that I'll stay away for a bit unless 
I "HAVE TO" go forward.  I've lived the bleeding edge for too many years, I 
want to stay away from it if I can.

And thanks for the welcome!

Thanks!


For help with any of our services, please reach out to our Helpdesk:  
helpd...@outtacyte.com

OuttaCyTE / Greg’s Helpdesk
E-Mail: helpd...@outtacyte.com
Phone: 830-672-9068, Dial ext. 852 to reach a staff person during office hours

-Original Message-
From: Geoff [mailto:cleanoutmys...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2024 7:40 PM
To: fromvendor; 'gnucash-user@gnucash.org'
Subject: Re: [GNC] New user looking for some reporting help

And the "Income Statement (Multicolumn)" report works the same way - see 
attached.

Regards

Geoff
=

On 3/04/2024 11:23 am, Geoff wrote:
> Hi Greg, and welcome to the wonderful world of GnuCash!
> 
> Try the "Balance Sheet (Multicolumn)" report and play around with the 
> Options - see attached screenshot.
> 
> Windows 10 GnuCash v5.6 Build ID: git 5.6-2-g9f998892b5+(2024-04-01)
> 
> Regards
> 
> Geoff
> =
> 
> On 3/04/2024 9:34 am, fromvendor wrote:
>> Hi, I'm trying to figure out how to get some reports like I used to 
>> get out of quickbooks.  QB has made me so mad that I've abandoned them 
>> for this year and I'm using GNUCash.
>>
>> I'm using Version 5.5.  (probably doesn't matter but I just today got 
>> the Quotes thing working (three failures to install - each one got 
>> further until 3rd time charm).  )
>>
>> I'm having difficulty on a few things that I can't seem to figure out 
>> how to do especially in regards to reporting.
>>
>> One set of reports I'd like is Balance and P reports with Monthly 
>> columns.
>>
>> So, I'd specify the overall date range (say 1 Jan to 31 March) and 
>> tell it I want columns for each month and a column for the total for 
>> the selected date range.
>>
>> Is this something that already exists?  Are there custom reports that 
>> can do this?  Are there "Add on" reports that I can get (and if so, 
>> where)?
>>
>> This message also serves as my first message using a mail list in 
>> about 20 years so I'm hoping I've got it set up right.
>>
>> Blessings,
>> -g
>> ___
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>> -
>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
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[GNC] New user looking for some reporting help

[flywire]

GnuCash reports are much more basic than QuickBooks but should be adequate
and there is no sample dataset available for testing the system. If you use
classes have a look at https://github.com/dawansv/gnucash-custom-reports

The big advantage is you have import/export access to your data and it
dumps easily into a spreadsheet.
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[GNC] New user looking for some reporting help

[fromvendor]

Hi, I'm trying to figure out how to get some reports like I used to get out of 
quickbooks.  QB has made me so mad that I've abandoned them for this year and 
I'm using GNUCash.

I'm using Version 5.5.  (probably doesn't matter but I just today got the 
Quotes thing working (three failures to install - each one got further until 
3rd time charm).  )

I'm having difficulty on a few things that I can't seem to figure out how to do 
especially in regards to reporting.

One set of reports I'd like is Balance and P reports with Monthly columns.

So, I'd specify the overall date range (say 1 Jan to 31 March) and tell it I 
want columns for each month and a column for the total for the selected date 
range.

Is this something that already exists?  Are there custom reports that can do 
this?  Are there "Add on" reports that I can get (and if so, where)?

This message also serves as my first message using a mail list in about 20 
years so I'm hoping I've got it set up right.

Blessings,
-g
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Re: [GNC] Request for help with libgnucash/engine

[Mark at Lorimark]

Thank you, John.

~mark petryk
~c:469-556-5075
~w:http://www.lorimarksolutions.com

On 3/23/24 12:34, john wrote:



On Mar 23, 2024, at 17:16, Mark at Lorimark 
 wrote:


Hi Guys,

I've started up a project to create a web-interface for GnuCash.  Been 
tinkering with it for a while now.


I was hoping to be able to reach out to the developers to ask for some 
help with regards to getting connected to gnucash via the libgnucash 
engine.


I have been somewhat successful getting the engine open, but it feels 
like I'm just swimming upstream, guessing about the api calls.



https://gnucashew.lorimarksolutions.com/demo
https://gnucashew.lorimarksolutions.com/dox/html/SessionGnuCash_8cpp_source.html


The demo I have running is just making direct sql calls, but I really 
want the engine.


I know it's a tall request to coldly ask for developer support this 
way, but I'm asking none-the-less.  I just need a little nudge to get 
over this api hump and I'll be trucking on my way!!!


Thank you in advance


I'll point you at the API documentation: 
https://code.gnucash.org/docs/STABLE 
<https://code.gnucash.org/docs/STABLE>. It's not complete, but it might 
help. You're right that you need the engine, there's no business logic 
in the database, not even referential integrity.


You should be aware that GnuCash is still far from clean in separating 
the GUI from the computation, so while you'll need to learn the engine 
you'll also need to study the rest of the program too. You can ask 
specific questions about particular function, but I don't have time to 
review your code or write more documentation for you. I can't speak for 
the other devs on that regard. Maybe one of them has more time.


Another thing to note: There is *NO* stability guarantee with any part 
of GnuCAash. Things you learned last year may change next year.


Regards & Good Luck,
John Ralls


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Re: [GNC] Request for help with libgnucash/engine

[Mark at Lorimark]

Thank you, Geoff.

~mark petryk
~w:http://www.lorimarksolutions.com

On 3/23/24 20:04, Geoff wrote:

This may (or may not) be useful:

https://github.com/sdementen/piecash

Regards

Geoff
=

On 24/03/2024 3:16 am, Mark at Lorimark wrote:

Hi Guys,

I've started up a project to create a web-interface for GnuCash.  Been 
tinkering with it for a while now.


I was hoping to be able to reach out to the developers to ask for some 
help with regards to getting connected to gnucash via the libgnucash 
engine.


I have been somewhat successful getting the engine open, but it feels 
like I'm just swimming upstream, guessing about the api calls.



https://gnucashew.lorimarksolutions.com/demo
https://gnucashew.lorimarksolutions.com/dox/html/SessionGnuCash_8cpp_source.html


The demo I have running is just making direct sql calls, but I really 
want the engine.


I know it's a tall request to coldly ask for developer support this 
way, but I'm asking none-the-less.  I just need a little nudge to get 
over this api hump and I'll be trucking on my way!!!


Thank you in advance


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Re: [GNC] Request for help with libgnucash/engine

[Geoff]

This may (or may not) be useful:

https://github.com/sdementen/piecash

Regards

Geoff
=

On 24/03/2024 3:16 am, Mark at Lorimark wrote:

Hi Guys,

I've started up a project to create a web-interface for GnuCash.  Been 
tinkering with it for a while now.


I was hoping to be able to reach out to the developers to ask for some 
help with regards to getting connected to gnucash via the libgnucash 
engine.


I have been somewhat successful getting the engine open, but it feels 
like I'm just swimming upstream, guessing about the api calls.



https://gnucashew.lorimarksolutions.com/demo
https://gnucashew.lorimarksolutions.com/dox/html/SessionGnuCash_8cpp_source.html


The demo I have running is just making direct sql calls, but I really 
want the engine.


I know it's a tall request to coldly ask for developer support this way, 
but I'm asking none-the-less.  I just need a little nudge to get over 
this api hump and I'll be trucking on my way!!!


Thank you in advance


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Re: [GNC] Request for help with libgnucash/engine

[john]

> On Mar 23, 2024, at 17:16, Mark at Lorimark  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Guys,
> 
> I've started up a project to create a web-interface for GnuCash.  Been 
> tinkering with it for a while now.
> 
> I was hoping to be able to reach out to the developers to ask for some help 
> with regards to getting connected to gnucash via the libgnucash engine.
> 
> I have been somewhat successful getting the engine open, but it feels like 
> I'm just swimming upstream, guessing about the api calls.
> 
>> https://gnucashew.lorimarksolutions.com/demo
>> https://gnucashew.lorimarksolutions.com/dox/html/SessionGnuCash_8cpp_source.html
> 
> The demo I have running is just making direct sql calls, but I really want 
> the engine.
> 
> I know it's a tall request to coldly ask for developer support this way, but 
> I'm asking none-the-less.  I just need a little nudge to get over this api 
> hump and I'll be trucking on my way!!!
> 
> Thank you in advance

I'll point you at the API documentation: https://code.gnucash.org/docs/STABLE. 
It's not complete, but it might help. You're right that you need the engine, 
there's no business logic in the database, not even referential integrity. 

You should be aware that GnuCash is still far from clean in separating the GUI 
from the computation, so while you'll need to learn the engine you'll also need 
to study the rest of the program too. You can ask specific questions about 
particular function, but I don't have time to review your code or write more 
documentation for you. I can't speak for the other devs on that regard. Maybe 
one of them has more time.

Another thing to note: There is *NO* stability guarantee with any part of 
GnuCAash. Things you learned last year may change next year.

Regards & Good Luck,
John Ralls

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[GNC] Request for help with libgnucash/engine

[Mark at Lorimark]

Hi Guys,

I've started up a project to create a web-interface for GnuCash.  Been 
tinkering with it for a while now.


I was hoping to be able to reach out to the developers to ask for some 
help with regards to getting connected to gnucash via the libgnucash engine.


I have been somewhat successful getting the engine open, but it feels 
like I'm just swimming upstream, guessing about the api calls.



https://gnucashew.lorimarksolutions.com/demo
https://gnucashew.lorimarksolutions.com/dox/html/SessionGnuCash_8cpp_source.html


The demo I have running is just making direct sql calls, but I really 
want the engine.


I know it's a tall request to coldly ask for developer support this way, 
but I'm asking none-the-less.  I just need a little nudge to get over 
this api hump and I'll be trucking on my way!!!


Thank you in advance

--
~mark
~w:http://www.lorimarksolutions.com
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Re: [GNC] Help

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 3/18/2024 8:37 AM, Kalpesh Patel wrote:

No one other than your self can remove you from the list.


Well..

<< my last several have been straying from gnucash specific topics, so 
here goes again >>


This would apply to ALL mail lists managed by the same mail list 
program. But since it is a popular mail list management program (many 
mail lists use it) maybe a good idea to learn how you can give it orders 
to do this or that. Most people would go to the website, but "mailman" 
also responds to commands sent by email. To learn these:


Send an email to gnucash-user-requ...@gnucash.org with just the single 
word help (on the safe side, both subject line and body) Note that the 
"command" address for an elist managed by "mailman" will typically have 
this format


Mailman will respond to that with an email, the body of which will tell 
you ALL the things you can tell "mailman" to do. If you go through that 
list, you will see that ONE of the things you can do is remove an email 
address (somebody else's) from the list if you know their password << if 
you try it and don't know their password, mailman will communicate with 
them about the unsubscribe request >> It's what you would use (should 
use) when your email address changes, at least that's how I did it in 
the days when no broadband so no way to use the website method (and not 
all elists had that back in those days). In other words, "mailman" 
cannot distinguish whether that is really "somebody else's or two 
addresses of the same human. So you CAN remove "somebody else" from the 
list if you know their password and the admins can do it with their more 
powerful password << some commands require that >>


Michael D Novack




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Re: [GNC] Help

[Kalpesh Patel]

No one other than your self can remove you from the list.

Visit https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/options/gnucash-user and follow 
instructions on that page. If the password is unknown, it can be reset there as 
well.

-Original Message-
From: Anon20x  
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2024 7:11 PM
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: [GNC] Help

Please unsub me from the list, thankyou.




On Monday, March 18th, 2024 at 8:47 AM, gnucash-user-requ...@gnucash.org 
 wrote:

> 
> 
> Send gnucash-user mailing list submissions to gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> 
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to 
> gnucash-user-requ...@gnucash.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at 
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> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
> than "Re: Contents of gnucash-user digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. gnucash suggestions (J. A. Harris)
> 2. Re: UNSUBCRIBE and Lemmy.World (Kalpesh Patel) 3. Re: gnucash 
> suggestions (Michael or Penny Novack) 4. Re: UNSUBCRIBE and 
> Lemmy.World (Michael or Penny Novack) 5. Re: gnucash suggestions (J. 
> A. Harris) 6. Re: gnucash suggestions (Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)) 7. 
> Re: Separating tax years for payments in next year (NoobAlice) 8. Re: 
> gnucash-user Digest, Vol 252, Issue 33 (Anon20x)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 12:15:28 -0400
> From: "J. A. Harris" prod...@harrisja.us
> 
> To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> Subject: [GNC] gnucash suggestions
> Message-ID: a1a89c31-e2f6-4c09-8433-55658ab15...@harrisja.us
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> I have been using gnucash for almost 10 years now.? I have downloaded 
> the source code and even made some changes to it that I consider 
> improvement.? There are other changes that I think would be a good 
> idea.? If this is not the place to share such comments, I apologize.
> 
> 1. I use gnucash on a computer with a large screen,? I have a source 
> code modification that adds including the Assoc and Notes fields to 
> the single-line Basic Ledger view.? For me, those fields are too 
> important to require going double-line (which cuts in half the entries 
> in the window) and there is plenty of room on a desktop monitor to 
> accommodate the extra width needed. I think this would be a nice 
> option for many users.
> 2. Add a new Generic and INC+EXP account.? No doubt this violates 
> basic accounting rules but for an amateur like me, it is useful to 
> have a single book in which I can separate sections like reserves, 
> retirement, and operating items.? Accounts of type Generic could have 
> sub-accounts of any type.? Accounts of type INC+EXP would act as an 
> Income account and as Expense account. For example, if there were a 
> mixture of Income and Expense accounts under a INC+EXP account, a 
> search in the tax system for Income accounts would find them and a 
> search for Expense accounts would find them.? As it stands now, that 
> top level account must be either Income or Expense and Income accounts 
> are not found if the top-level account is Expense and vice-versa. 
> (With an INC+EXP type, it would also permit restricting subaccounts 
> under Income to be just Income and under Expense just Expense.) 3. 
> Sorting occurs in many different places: in register displays, in 
> reports, in the listing of accounts in the transfer field, etc.? If 
> the natural sort organization for my accounts is by account code, I 
> find it confusing inconvenient when that is not the default sorting 
> used in reports, budgets, transfer menu, etc.
> 4. Give the users the ability to create new "currencies".? There are a 
> number of occasions where I have assets which have a dollar value but 
> the accounting of that asset uses a different measure.? Some examples 
> include airline loyalty points, miles driven that have a tax deduction 
> value, etc. ? Doing this through FUND or NYSE does not work because 
> those things cannot be used in account types where Currencies can be 
> used.
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Dr. J. A. Harris
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 12:39:32 -0400
> From: "Kalpesh Patel" kalpesh.pa...@usa.net
> 
> To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> 
> Subject: Re: [GNC] UNSUBCRIBE and Lemmy.World
> Message-ID: 000e01da7889$b0f5c380$12e14a80$@usa.net
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> If the e-m

Re: [GNC] Help

[Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)]

Really?

Follow the instructions that are at the bottom of EVERY SINGLE MESSAGE,
including the gigantic digest that you forwarded to every single person
on the list. I've snipped out everything but those instructions.

You could also have read the answer that was posted to a similar query
from someone else today.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com

On 2024-03-17 16:10, Anon20x via gnucash-user wrote:
> Please unsub me from the list, thankyou.
> ___
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[GNC] Help

[Anon20x via gnucash-user]

Please unsub me from the list, thankyou.




On Monday, March 18th, 2024 at 8:47 AM, gnucash-user-requ...@gnucash.org 
 wrote:

> 
> 
> Send gnucash-user mailing list submissions to
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> gnucash-user-requ...@gnucash.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> gnucash-user-ow...@gnucash.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of gnucash-user digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. gnucash suggestions (J. A. Harris)
> 2. Re: UNSUBCRIBE and Lemmy.World (Kalpesh Patel)
> 3. Re: gnucash suggestions (Michael or Penny Novack)
> 4. Re: UNSUBCRIBE and Lemmy.World (Michael or Penny Novack)
> 5. Re: gnucash suggestions (J. A. Harris)
> 6. Re: gnucash suggestions (Stan Brown (using GC 4.14))
> 7. Re: Separating tax years for payments in next year (NoobAlice)
> 8. Re: gnucash-user Digest, Vol 252, Issue 33 (Anon20x)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 12:15:28 -0400
> From: "J. A. Harris" prod...@harrisja.us
> 
> To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> Subject: [GNC] gnucash suggestions
> Message-ID: a1a89c31-e2f6-4c09-8433-55658ab15...@harrisja.us
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> I have been using gnucash for almost 10 years now.? I have downloaded
> the source code and even made some changes to it that I consider
> improvement.? There are other changes that I think would be a good
> idea.? If this is not the place to share such comments, I apologize.
> 
> 1. I use gnucash on a computer with a large screen,? I have a source
> code modification that adds including the Assoc and Notes fields to
> the single-line Basic Ledger view.? For me, those fields are too
> important to require going double-line (which cuts in half the
> entries in the window) and there is plenty of room on a desktop
> monitor to accommodate the extra width needed. I think this would be
> a nice option for many users.
> 2. Add a new Generic and INC+EXP account.? No doubt this violates basic
> accounting rules but for an amateur like me, it is useful to have a
> single book in which I can separate sections like reserves,
> retirement, and operating items.? Accounts of type Generic could
> have sub-accounts of any type.? Accounts of type INC+EXP would act
> as an Income account and as Expense account. For example, if there
> were a mixture of Income and Expense accounts under a INC+EXP
> account, a search in the tax system for Income accounts would find
> them and a search for Expense accounts would find them.? As it
> stands now, that top level account must be either Income or Expense
> and Income accounts are not found if the top-level account is
> Expense and vice-versa. (With an INC+EXP type, it would also permit
> restricting subaccounts under Income to be just Income and under
> Expense just Expense.)
> 3. Sorting occurs in many different places: in register displays, in
> reports, in the listing of accounts in the transfer field, etc.? If
> the natural sort organization for my accounts is by account code, I
> find it confusing inconvenient when that is not the default sorting
> used in reports, budgets, transfer menu, etc.
> 4. Give the users the ability to create new "currencies".? There are a
> number of occasions where I have assets which have a dollar value
> but the accounting of that asset uses a different measure.? Some
> examples include airline loyalty points, miles driven that have a
> tax deduction value, etc. ? Doing this through FUND or NYSE does not
> work because those things cannot be used in account types where
> Currencies can be used.
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Dr. J. A. Harris
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 12:39:32 -0400
> From: "Kalpesh Patel" kalpesh.pa...@usa.net
> 
> To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> 
> Subject: Re: [GNC] UNSUBCRIBE and Lemmy.World
> Message-ID: 000e01da7889$b0f5c380$12e14a80$@usa.net
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> If the e-mail client is configured via IMAP access to email server, then 
> whatever email is deleted on your client is also removed from your server so 
> you don't need to clean up multiple times... IMAP keeps "one" view for all of 
> the email clients that access those emails.
> 
> My outlook client is configured to move messages to 'Deleted Item' and then 
> it is further co

Re: [GNC] Ssh Xforwarding works for app but not for help

[G McAlister]

On 20/01/2024 17:49, john wrote:

Adrien,

That's true on macOS, but on Linux it opens the document in Yelp and on MSWin 
it opens in the archaic Windows Help viewer.

Regards,
John Ralls


On Jan 19, 2024, at 16:56, Adrien Monteleone  
wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, those entries now simply attempt to open a web browser. If 
your container doesn't have one, then I would expect nothing to happen.

Regards,
Adrien

On 1/19/24 12:41 PM, G McAlister wrote:

I'm using Opensuse Leap 15.5 in a Proxmox lxc container to run the gnucash app. I can ssh into the 
container and, with Xforwarding, I can use the app remotely on my KDE desktop. Great. However, in 
the Help menu, if I click on either "Tutorial and Concepts Guide" or 
"Contents", those windows don't open on my KDE desktop but on the container console. 
Doesn't seem like an app problem but maybe some detail of forwarding or odd behaviour of yelp, the 
gnome help viewer.
Any thoughts, please?

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I've given up with xforwarding and will try vnc instead.

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Re: [GNC] Ssh Xforwarding works for app but not for help

[john]

Adrien,

That's true on macOS, but on Linux it opens the document in Yelp and on MSWin 
it opens in the archaic Windows Help viewer.

Regards,
John Ralls

> On Jan 19, 2024, at 16:56, Adrien Monteleone  
> wrote:
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, those entries now simply attempt to open a web browser. 
> If your container doesn't have one, then I would expect nothing to happen.
> 
> Regards,
> Adrien
> 
> On 1/19/24 12:41 PM, G McAlister wrote:
>> I'm using Opensuse Leap 15.5 in a Proxmox lxc container to run the gnucash 
>> app. I can ssh into the container and, with Xforwarding, I can use the app 
>> remotely on my KDE desktop. Great. However, in the Help menu, if I click on 
>> either "Tutorial and Concepts Guide" or "Contents", those windows don't open 
>> on my KDE desktop but on the container console. Doesn't seem like an app 
>> problem but maybe some detail of forwarding or odd behaviour of yelp, the 
>> gnome help viewer.
>> Any thoughts, please?
> 
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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Re: [GNC] Ssh Xforwarding works for app but not for help

[Adrien Monteleone]

If I'm not mistaken, those entries now simply attempt to open a web 
browser. If your container doesn't have one, then I would expect nothing 
to happen.


Regards,
Adrien

On 1/19/24 12:41 PM, G McAlister wrote:
I'm using Opensuse Leap 15.5 in a Proxmox lxc container to run the 
gnucash app. I can ssh into the container and, with Xforwarding, I can 
use the app remotely on my KDE desktop. Great. However, in the Help 
menu, if I click on either "Tutorial and Concepts Guide" or "Contents", 
those windows don't open on my KDE desktop but on the container console. 
Doesn't seem like an app problem but maybe some detail of forwarding or 
odd behaviour of yelp, the gnome help viewer.


Any thoughts, please?


___
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[GNC] Ssh Xforwarding works for app but not for help

[G McAlister]

I'm using Opensuse Leap 15.5 in a Proxmox lxc container to run the 
gnucash app. I can ssh into the container and, with Xforwarding, I can 
use the app remotely on my KDE desktop. Great. However, in the Help 
menu, if I click on either "Tutorial and Concepts Guide" or "Contents", 
those windows don't open on my KDE desktop but on the container console. 
Doesn't seem like an app problem but maybe some detail of forwarding or 
odd behaviour of yelp, the gnome help viewer.


Any thoughts, please?
___
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Re: [GNC] Help

[Kevin Buckley via gnucash-user]

On Tuesday, January 9th, 2024 at 04:03, Max Crystal  
wrote:
> 
> Every time I open and close the register it creates a notepad log entry on
> my hard drive. Can I disable this so I will not have multiple entries every
> day.
> 
> Max

Can't tell if you are using GnuCash on a UNIX-like platform. but,
if you arem then I have a couple of Makefile targets, one that lists
all of my "old files" and one that removes them all

Note also that I have files named personal-??.xac where the ?? is a
two letter country code - your filenames may differ, (indeed, I think
the dot-xac is showing my age a little?) but adapting the commands 
to match your filenames shouldn't be too hard.


list-old-personal:
find .-name personal-??.xac.`date +%Y%m`\* \
-a \! -name personal-??.xac.`date +%Y%m%d`\* -print

list-old-personal-and-rm:
find .-name personal-??.xac.`date +%Y%m`\* \
-a \! -name personal-??.xac.`date +%Y%m%d`\* -print | xargs rm -f


FWIW, you can use the power of 'expr' to clear out last month's

list-last-month-personal:
l=`date +%Y%m` ; \
find .-name personal-??.xac.`expr $$l - 1`\* -print ;

list-last-month-personal-and-rm:
l=`date +%Y%m` ; \
find .-name personal-??.xac.`expr $$l - 1`\* -print | xargs rm -f ; 

and even the previous year's

list-last-year-personal:
l=`date +%Y` ; \
find .-name personal-??.xac.`expr $$l - 1`\* -print

list-last-year-personal-and-rm:
l=`date +%Y` ; \
find .-name personal-??.xac.`expr $$l - 1`\* -print | xargs rm


although note that if you run these commands from the command line, 
drop the $$l for $l, as the doubling is a Makefile escape.

HTH, although apologies for the noise if you are not on a UNIX-like 
platform.



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Re: [GNC] Help

[David Cousens]

Max,

The backup files and log files give you some protection in the event of a 
system or GnuCash crash. The backup files are
a copy of the data file at its state before the last time it was opened before 
a crash. The log files record the
transactions which had been entered in GnuCash up to the point the crash 
actually occurred. You can open the last backup
if the datafile is corrupted during a crash and then import the log files to 
recover the transactions you had entered in
the last seesion in which the crsh occurred. The last entry in the log file can 
also give you informationabout why a
crash occurred if it was a GnuCash crash and not a system crash.

It is generally useful to retain them. BY default the retention period is 
usually 30 days but you can set it to any
period that works for your workflow. Backup and log files older than the 
retention period form today's date are deleted
when GnuCash is started up so the files will not build up to occupy too much of 
your hard disk space.

It is wise to also have a periodic backup to another system and/or offsite 
storgae to optimize your chances of recovery
in the vent of a hard disk failure.


David Cousens

On Mon, 2024-01-08 at 13:18 -0800, Max Crystal wrote:
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> David,
> 
> As you can see, I checked never for backup log to never.  Am I doing 
> something wrong?  It is still posting to my hard
> drive files every time.  I Have version 5.5
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: David T.  
> Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 12:55 PM
> To: Max Crystal 
> Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Help
> 
>  
> 
> That's handled in settings. You can disable by setting the log file retention 
> to 0.
> 
> David T.
> 
> On Jan 8, 2024, at 9:05 PM, Max Crystal  <mailto:maxie...@roadrunner.com> > wrote:
> 
> Every time I open and close the register it creates a notepad log entry on
> my hard drive.  Can I disable this so I will not have multiple entries every
> day.
> 
> Max
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [GNC] Help

[David Carlson]

Max,

Those log files are usually very small and they get deleted at the same
time as the automatic backup files.  I have GnuCash configured to keep them
for several days and I find them very handy when GnuCash crashes to
re-enter whatever I had entered after my last manual file save, which is
not very much since I save every few minutes.  I use compressed XML
format.  If you use one of the database formats, it may work differently,
but I have no experience with that to share.

If you are saving your GnuCash data file(s) in dedicated folder(s) in your
userland as recommended, they aren't cluttering up your hard drive to speak
of.

On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 3:40 PM David T. via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> I don't really know. I don't pay any attention to the log files. They're
> there if I ever need them, and seem to disappear after a reasonable time.
>
> ⁣David T.​
>
> On Jan 8, 2024, 10:18 PM, at 10:18 PM, Max Crystal <
> maxie...@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >David,
> >
> >As you can see, I checked never for backup log to never.  Am I doing
> >something wrong?  It is still posting to my hard drive files every
> >time.  I Have version 5.5
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >From: David T. 
> >Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 12:55 PM
> >To: Max Crystal 
> >Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> >Subject: Re: [GNC] Help
> >
> >
> >
> >That's handled in settings. You can disable by setting the log file
> >retention to 0.
> >
> >David T.
> >
> >On Jan 8, 2024, at 9:05 PM, Max Crystal  ><mailto:maxie...@roadrunner.com> > wrote:
> >
> >Every time I open and close the register it creates a notepad log entry
> >on
> >my hard drive.  Can I disable this so I will not have multiple entries
> >every
> >day.
> >
> >Max
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >www.avast.com
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
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>


-- 
David Carlson
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Re: [GNC] Help

[David T. via gnucash-user]

I don't really know. I don't pay any attention to the log files. They're there 
if I ever need them, and seem to disappear after a reasonable time. 

⁣David T.​

On Jan 8, 2024, 10:18 PM, at 10:18 PM, Max Crystal  
wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>David,
>
>As you can see, I checked never for backup log to never.  Am I doing
>something wrong?  It is still posting to my hard drive files every
>time.  I Have version 5.5
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: David T. 
>Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 12:55 PM
>To: Max Crystal 
>Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>Subject: Re: [GNC] Help
>
>
>
>That's handled in settings. You can disable by setting the log file
>retention to 0.
>
>David T.
>
>On Jan 8, 2024, at 9:05 PM, Max Crystal <mailto:maxie...@roadrunner.com> > wrote:
>
>Every time I open and close the register it creates a notepad log entry
>on
>my hard drive.  Can I disable this so I will not have multiple entries
>every
>day.
>
>Max
>
>
>
>--
>This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>www.avast.com
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Re: [GNC] Help

[Max Crystal]

David,

As you can see, I checked never for backup log to never.  Am I doing something 
wrong?  It is still posting to my hard drive files every time.  I Have version 
5.5









From: David T. 
Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 12:55 PM
To: Max Crystal 
Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Help



That's handled in settings. You can disable by setting the log file retention 
to 0.

David T.

On Jan 8, 2024, at 9:05 PM, Max Crystal mailto:maxie...@roadrunner.com> > wrote:

Every time I open and close the register it creates a notepad log entry on
my hard drive.  Can I disable this so I will not have multiple entries every
day.

Max



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Re: [GNC] Help

[David T. via gnucash-user]

That's handled in settings. You can disable by setting the log file retention 
to 0.

⁣David T.​

On Jan 8, 2024, 9:05 PM, at 9:05 PM, Max Crystal  
wrote:
>Every time I open and close the register it creates a notepad log entry
>on
>my hard drive.  Can I disable this so I will not have multiple entries
>every
>day.
>
>Max
>
>
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[GNC] Help

[Max Crystal]

Every time I open and close the register it creates a notepad log entry on
my hard drive.  Can I disable this so I will not have multiple entries every
day.

Max


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Re: [GNC] Help selecting accounts for a report

[William Prescott]

Hello Anna,

I'm not sure if this addresses your question. On MacOS, in general when you 
want to make a discontinuous selection, the Apple Command key is what you need 
(⌘). The shift key will select every thing between the first and second 
click.The command key selects just the first and just the second.

Will

On 24 Dec 2023, at 12:35, Anna Scott  wrote:

Hello helpers! Happy holidays.  Not sure when this might be seen … but crossing 
my fingers. Ive used GNC for a few months in MacOS.  I’ve figured out how to do 
basic reporting by editing the standard options. i now need help in literally 
selecting the accounts for my new income statement.  It would be easy if the 
accounts were all contiguous in my chart of accounts and I’d simply select the 
relevant group. However, i have a group of expenses that I want to match with 
an income account.  I can select each set but not both …to “selectively select” 
 I’ve tried things like holding down shift key so i can skip to only relevant 
accounts.  Is there a simple shift/option/control/command whatever set of 
keystrokes i need to know?   

I hope that makes sense.  Anyway, y’all have a happy holiday and I’m very 
grateful for those who invest time in helping others.  I’ll try to pay it 
forward,

A

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 30, 2023, at 22:06, Peter Lamb  wrote:
> 
> No problem, I'm glad you've sorted it out.
> 
> Peter
> 
>> On 1/10/2023 13:52, Anna Scott wrote:
>> Thank you so much Peter!  I found the pathway and was able to successfully 
>> reauthorize it again. Whew!   I realized later that the other significant 
>> event today was that I updated my Mac software just before this happened, so 
>> this appears to be a new security feature … anyway I’m super grateful for 
>> you taking time to help me out. Have a wonderful weekend,
>> A
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On Sep 30, 2023, at 18:37, Peter Lamb  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Assuming that you have a Mac (you didn't say, but the message sounds 
>>> Mac-ish):
>>> System Settings>Privacy & Security>Files and Folders, scroll down to 
>>> Gnucash, click on the ">" to the left of "Gnucash" and switch on Documents 
>>> Folder.
>>> 
>>> Peter
>>> 
>>>> On 1/10/2023 10:41, Anna Scott wrote:
>>>> Hello helpers … this is my first question after setting up Gnucash.  When 
>>>> I tried to open the data file today it unexpectedly asked if I wanted 
>>>> Gnucash to access my document folders.  Id never been asked that before 
>>>> and in the interests of security said no.  Of course now when I tried to 
>>>> open my data file it refuses and says it doesn’t have permission!  UGH how 
>>>> can I correct this?  Thanks in advance for all who support this product
>>>> 
>>>> A
>>>> ___
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> 

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Re: [GNC] Help selecting accounts for a report

[Anna Scott]

Hello helpers! Happy holidays.  Not sure when this might be seen … but crossing 
my fingers. Ive used GNC for a few months in MacOS.  I’ve figured out how to do 
basic reporting by editing the standard options. i now need help in literally 
selecting the accounts for my new income statement.  It would be easy if the 
accounts were all contiguous in my chart of accounts and I’d simply select the 
relevant group. However, i have a group of expenses that I want to match with 
an income account.  I can select each set but not both …to “selectively select” 
 I’ve tried things like holding down shift key so i can skip to only relevant 
accounts.  Is there a simple shift/option/control/command whatever set of 
keystrokes i need to know?   

I hope that makes sense.  Anyway, y’all have a happy holiday and I’m very 
grateful for those who invest time in helping others.  I’ll try to pay it 
forward,

A

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 30, 2023, at 22:06, Peter Lamb  wrote:
> 
> No problem, I'm glad you've sorted it out.
> 
> Peter
> 
>> On 1/10/2023 13:52, Anna Scott wrote:
>> Thank you so much Peter!  I found the pathway and was able to successfully 
>> reauthorize it again. Whew!   I realized later that the other significant 
>> event today was that I updated my Mac software just before this happened, so 
>> this appears to be a new security feature … anyway I’m super grateful for 
>> you taking time to help me out. Have a wonderful weekend,
>> A
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On Sep 30, 2023, at 18:37, Peter Lamb  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Assuming that you have a Mac (you didn't say, but the message sounds 
>>> Mac-ish):
>>> System Settings>Privacy & Security>Files and Folders, scroll down to 
>>> Gnucash, click on the ">" to the left of "Gnucash" and switch on Documents 
>>> Folder.
>>> 
>>> Peter
>>> 
>>>> On 1/10/2023 10:41, Anna Scott wrote:
>>>> Hello helpers … this is my first question after setting up Gnucash.  When 
>>>> I tried to open the data file today it unexpectedly asked if I wanted 
>>>> Gnucash to access my document folders.  Id never been asked that before 
>>>> and in the interests of security said no.  Of course now when I tried to 
>>>> open my data file it refuses and says it doesn’t have permission!  UGH how 
>>>> can I correct this?  Thanks in advance for all who support this product
>>>> 
>>>> A
>>>> ___
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>>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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>>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>> 
> 

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Re: [GNC] Help with searching questions and problems

[Gyle McCollam]

Thank you that is a great help.


Thank You,

Gyle McCollam

Gyle McCollam

gmccol...@live.com<mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com>   email


From: gnucash-user  on 
behalf of Glenn Fowler 
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2023 9:50 PM
To: Gyle McCollam 
Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
Subject: Re: [GNC] Help with searching questions and problems

Hi Gyle,

You can search the archives here:
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/

On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 7:56 PM Gyle McCollam  wrote:

> I sent an email 5 days ago, Titled "Import Issue" and have not seen any
> responses.  Where do I go to search questions submitted to see if it was
> received?
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> Gyle McCollam
>
> Gyle McCollam
>
> gmccol...@live.com<mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com>   email
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Re: [GNC] Help with searching questions and problems

[Glenn Fowler]

Hi Gyle,

You can search the archives here:
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/

On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 7:56 PM Gyle McCollam  wrote:

> I sent an email 5 days ago, Titled "Import Issue" and have not seen any
> responses.  Where do I go to search questions submitted to see if it was
> received?
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> Gyle McCollam
>
> Gyle McCollam
>
> gmccol...@live.com   email
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Re: [GNC] Help with searching questions and problems

[david whiting]

Hi Gyle,

The list of mailing lists can be found here:
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists

One listed is the English (USA) archive:
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/

There you can view each month by thread, subject, author, and date. I can
see four messages from you in December.

David

On Mon, 18 Dec 2023, 00:57 Gyle McCollam,  wrote:

> I sent an email 5 days ago, Titled "Import Issue" and have not seen any
> responses.  Where do I go to search questions submitted to see if it was
> received?
>
>
> Thank You,
>
> Gyle McCollam
>
> Gyle McCollam
>
> gmccol...@live.com   email
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[GNC] Help with searching questions and problems

[Gyle McCollam]

I sent an email 5 days ago, Titled "Import Issue" and have not seen any 
responses.  Where do I go to search questions submitted to see if it was 
received?


Thank You,

Gyle McCollam

Gyle McCollam

gmccol...@live.com   email
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Re: [GNC] Help pages not showing

[Stephen Cohoon]

I am running transaction reports without any problems.  I have Intel
graphics.

-Stephen

On Sat, Nov 18, 2023 at 19:11 john  wrote:

>
>
> > On Nov 17, 2023, at 10:53, John Ralls  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Nov 17, 2023, at 9:06 AM, Stephen Cohoon  wrote:
> >>
> >> When I access the help button on the account edit window or from the
> help |
> >> contents menu I get a blank window.  Running Flathub 5.4.1 on Pop!_OS
> 22.04
> >> LTS Linux.  Is this a known problem?
> >
> > Not to me, and it works correctly for me on Debian 12.
>
> That said, it appears that Yelp (used for displaying help pages on Linux)
> also uses WebKit to render HTML and Docbook, so this is perhaps related to
> the Nvidia travails. Do reports display correctly for you?
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Help pages not showing

[john]

> On Nov 17, 2023, at 10:53, John Ralls  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 17, 2023, at 9:06 AM, Stephen Cohoon  wrote:
>> 
>> When I access the help button on the account edit window or from the help |
>> contents menu I get a blank window.  Running Flathub 5.4.1 on Pop!_OS 22.04
>> LTS Linux.  Is this a known problem?
> 
> Not to me, and it works correctly for me on Debian 12.

That said, it appears that Yelp (used for displaying help pages on Linux) also 
uses WebKit to render HTML and Docbook, so this is perhaps related to the 
Nvidia travails. Do reports display correctly for you?

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC] Help pages not showing

[John Ralls]

> On Nov 17, 2023, at 9:06 AM, Stephen Cohoon  wrote:
> 
> When I access the help button on the account edit window or from the help |
> contents menu I get a blank window.  Running Flathub 5.4.1 on Pop!_OS 22.04
> LTS Linux.  Is this a known problem?

Not to me, and it works correctly for me on Debian 12.

Regards,
John Ralls

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[GNC] Help pages not showing

[Stephen Cohoon]

When I access the help button on the account edit window or from the help |
contents menu I get a blank window.  Running Flathub 5.4.1 on Pop!_OS 22.04
LTS Linux.  Is this a known problem?

-Stephen

-- 
Stephen Cohoon
smcoh...@gmail.com

If there's a problem that can't be solved with a clever program, is that
problem really worth solving?
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Liz]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 05:58:30 +1000
David Cousens  wrote:

> While I agree with Liz's point with regard to different learning
> modalities, I still think it is a good practice to at least skim the
> available documentation and particularly read at least the Basics
> section of the Guide before diving in. 

If a person can read all those words and it does not help them
understand, they may understand with a different method.
There are some videos in English available. I can't tell whether they
are good or bad, does anyone have any favourites which would help
someone like Edwin?
I am imagining that a beginner video would talk through basic
concepts and then demonstrate how Gnucash handles those concepts. It
may follow through the Guide or Tutorial.
Suggestions welcome, then they could be linked from the wiki.

Liz
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Murugan Muruganandam]

A typical transaction will look like this

When you use your card to buy

Dr: Expenses: Clothes : $20  Cr: Liability: CreditCard: $20
Dr: Expenses: Cable: $100Cr: LIability: CreditCard:$100

When you get your statement and when you pay your credit card it will be

Dr: Liability: Credit Card: $120
Cr: Asset:Bank:CheckingAccount: $120


hope this helps


Saludos Cordiales


Murugan


From: gnucash-user 
 on behalf of 
Michael or Penny Novack 
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 5:37 PM
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
Subject: Re: [GNC] I need basic help

Back when I paid it, I just made a payment out of my bank
checking account straight to the CC company. Now, how do I assign that
transaction? It’s not a CC expense but it is an expense of some
kind—just from a different place. My CC statement will go into my
Liability Account, right? So does my payment to the CC company come out
of Assets and into Liability? And, if so, how do I assign it on the CC
Account transaction line?
> Thanks All,
> Edwin

No, it is NOT an expense of any kind.  The expenses were when you used
your credit card to buy things or pay for services. Forget that nothing
left your pocket. You incurred a debt at THOSE moments. Not when you get
around to making a payment on your credit card bill.

When you do make a payment, you debit the CC balance by that amount and
credit the bank account the check was written against. It's not an
expense, even though money left your bank account but a transfer
(reduced your debt). In other words, the transaction had no effect on
your net worth*..

Michael D Novack

* This is another case where "history" might (or might not) make it
clearer. If we go back many centuries, there were no accounts of type
income of expense. The transactions (representing income of expense)
were immediately written against equity. In other words, they
immediately affected equity wile a transaction paying against a debt
would not affect equity.

But it was hard to report on total income or expenses for a time
period, had to search for those transactions. Many hundreds of years ago
somebody got the clever idea of having TEMPORARY accounts of type
"income" and "expense" --- they are fundamental type equity but until
closed into equity provided information about income and expense since
the last time they were closed. That closing process produced things
like the P report.

With software like gnucash, most of us never close the books as
gnucash can produce the reports "pretend we did" (as if closed at the
start of the time period and closed again at the end)


Michael D Novack

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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Michael or Penny Novack]

Back when I paid it, I just made a payment out of my bank 
checking account straight to the CC company. Now, how do I assign that 
transaction? It’s not a CC expense but it is an expense of some 
kind—just from a different place. My CC statement will go into my 
Liability Account, right? So does my payment to the CC company come out 
of Assets and into Liability? And, if so, how do I assign it on the CC 
Account transaction line?

Thanks All,
Edwin


No, it is NOT an expense of any kind.  The expenses were when you used 
your credit card to buy things or pay for services. Forget that nothing 
left your pocket. You incurred a debt at THOSE moments. Not when you get 
around to making a payment on your credit card bill.


When you do make a payment, you debit the CC balance by that amount and 
credit the bank account the check was written against. It's not an 
expense, even though money left your bank account but a transfer 
(reduced your debt). In other words, the transaction had no effect on 
your net worth*..


Michael D Novack

* This is another case where "history" might (or might not) make it 
clearer. If we go back many centuries, there were no accounts of type 
income of expense. The transactions (representing income of expense) 
were immediately written against equity. In other words, they 
immediately affected equity wile a transaction paying against a debt 
would not affect equity.


   But it was hard to report on total income or expenses for a time 
period, had to search for those transactions. Many hundreds of years ago 
somebody got the clever idea of having TEMPORARY accounts of type 
"income" and "expense" --- they are fundamental type equity but until 
closed into equity provided information about income and expense since 
the last time they were closed. That closing process produced things 
like the P report.


   With software like gnucash, most of us never close the books as 
gnucash can produce the reports "pretend we did" (as if closed at the 
start of the time period and closed again at the end)



Michael D Novack

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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[David Cousens]

While I agree with Liz's point with regard to different learning modalities, I
still think it is a good practice to at least skim the available documentation
and particularly read at least the Basics section of the Guide before diving
in. 

The underlying concepts to accounting and even the debit/credit nomenclature is
not all that difficult, just a few  rules and basic  arithmetic and having that
straight initially makes the rest a lot easier.

The main advantage of doing so is it gives you some vocabulary to use to ask
questions with. I must confess I generally don't with programs myself, however I
have both a programming background and in the case of GnuCash an accounting
background.

David Cousens

On Wed, 2023-10-25 at 08:35 +1100, Liz wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 09:12:57 -0700
> "Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)"  wrote:
> 
> > It strikes me that you're trying to use GnuCash without first reading
> > the documentation. That's like trying to run before you can walk.
> > Others have already made the suggestion, but maybe you missed their
> > messages.
> 
> People learn in different ways.
> So Edwin learns by doing and asking when reaching a difficulty.
> 
> 
> Liz
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[sunfish62--- via gnucash-user]

While the generic subject line of this thread could cover practically any 
subject (and seemingly has), I'd like to recommend that users get in the habit 
of creating new threads for new topics.

⁣David T. ​

On Oct 25, 2023, 8:23 PM, at 8:23 PM, Fred Tydeman  
wrote:
>At top left of screen, click on Accounts.
>Then under Account Name, click on Expenses
>Then click on New at top of screen.
>that will get you a popup to create a new account.
>
>On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 10:02 AM Edwin Booth via gnucash-user <
>gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
>
>> How do I add a new Expense Account? I’d like to assign transactions
>in my
>> CC (liability) account to a few additional expense accounts. GnuCash
>said I
>> could “add more later” but I cannot seem to do it right. Do I have to
>> assign that account to some different top-level account?
>>
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Gyle McCollam]

In the credit card account, you reference the bank account in the transfer 
column and debit the credit card by the amount of the payment.  That debits the 
credit card and credits the bank account.  If you are in the bank account, you 
credit the bank balance and reference the cc in the transfer account.  If you 
use the reconciliation process, in the transfer window after you click finish, 
it will automatically show the cc account and you just have to select the bank 
or other account to credit.


Thank You,

Gyle McCollam

Gyle McCollam

gmccol...@live.com<mailto:gmccol...@gyleshomes.com>   email


From: gnucash-user  on 
behalf of Edwin Booth via gnucash-user 
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 1:56 PM
To: Steve Butler 
Cc: GnuCash Users 
Subject: Re: [GNC] I need basic help

Okay. Figured out how to add a new expense account. I’m on a MacBook and am 
figuring that out as well.
I’ve been entering credit card transactions from my newly downloaded CC 
statement. Expenses are being assigned to various expense accounts. I’m now at 
a credit card payment line. Back when I paid it, I just made a payment out of 
my bank checking account straight to the CC company. Now, how do I assign that 
transaction? It’s not a CC expense but it is an expense of some kind—just from 
a different place. My CC statement will go into my Liability Account, right? So 
does my payment to the CC company come out of Assets and into Liability? And, 
if so, how do I assign it on the CC Account transaction line?
Thanks All,
Edwin


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 25, 2023, 12:01 PM, Edwin Booth  
wrote:

How do I add a new Expense Account? I’d like to assign transactions in my CC 
(liability) account to a few additional expense accounts. GnuCash said I could 
“add more later” but I cannot seem to do it right. Do I have to assign that 
account to some different top-level account?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 19, 2023, 12:24 PM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user 
 wrote:

Thank you. I’ll try it that way.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 19, 2023, 11:26 AM, Steve Butler  wrote:



On Wed, Oct 18, 2023, 23:04 Edwin Booth  wrote:

Steve,
Thanks for getting back to me!
It seems that I need to first delete my newly downloaded file from GnuCash and 
re-import it but first assign all the

Yes, remove those transitions or restore to a pre-import backup.
transactions to various accounts. I have
This is done during the import process just after you open the file.  You 
should see a list of the transactions that will be loaded.  Pick each one and 
be sure it has the correct destination account.  That's how the import process 
is taught.
 gone through the process (I think) of creating a hierarchy of accounts (though 
I will surely want to add more expense accounts later).

Okay, I have deleted the AMEX credit card OFX account that I imported into 
GnuCash and have gone back to my Mac Downloads file. How do I now assign all 
those transactions to their proper accounts without first importing this OFX 
file into GnuCash? Doesn’t it have to be in GnuCash before it can even know 
what accounts are available?
It’s late now, so I’ll wait for an answer to this first question before going 
on.
But for some reason I saw this email in my Yahoo mail app rather than in my 
Gmail app. Please respond to this by sending out my Gmail account. 
elybee...@gnail.com.
Thanks,
Edwin


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 18, 2023, 2:05 PM, Stephen M. Butler  
wrote:

Edwin,

I routinely download my CC transactions using OFX.  I think you missed a
very important step.

It sounds like you did tie this OFX file to your CC Liability Account.
That will be remembered for all future imports from this CC.

It also sounds like you may not have set up all the various expense
accounts (Groceries, Fuel, Hardware, etc).  Those need to be setup as
accounts under the Expense top-level account.

Then, during the import process, after you pick the file but before
doing the actual import step you will see a list of all the
transactions.  During this first import none of them will show the
corresponding expense account.  You will need to click on each line and
indicate to which account that expense should be assigned.  In some
cases you will have a payment so up.  For the first time you will need
to assign this to your Asset/Checking account.

This process of assigning accounts to each transaction will teach the
import process how to automatically assign them in the future. As the
importer learns each transaction (based on the description), it will
begin to automatically assign the proper accounts. Occasionally you may
need to correct the account assignment or it may see a new description
and not know leaving it assigned to the Invalid Account.  This is your
clue to click on that line (perhaps double click) and make the
appropriate assignment.

Hop

Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Maf. King]

On Wednesday, 25 October 2023 18:56:11 BST Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:
> Back when I paid it, I just made a payment out of my bank checking account
> straight to the CC company. Now, how do I assign that transaction? It’s not
> a CC expense but it is an expense of some kind—just from a different place.

Edwin.

Just assign it to the Bank Account in GC that you paid from in real life

I understand what you mean when you say it is an expense.  It is not, really, 
it is not. 

This is another concept you need to wrap your head around.  The expense 
happens when you buy the food (whatever) on the CCard.  You then have a 
liability to the CCard Co.  You clear that liability by transferring some of 
your asset (in the bank checking account) to cancel the liability.

Hope you follow me.
Maf.



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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Edwin Booth via gnucash-user]

Okay. Figured out how to add a new expense account. I’m on a MacBook and am 
figuring that out as well. 
I’ve been entering credit card transactions from my newly downloaded CC 
statement. Expenses are being assigned to various expense accounts. I’m now at 
a credit card payment line. Back when I paid it, I just made a payment out of 
my bank checking account straight to the CC company. Now, how do I assign that 
transaction? It’s not a CC expense but it is an expense of some kind—just from 
a different place. My CC statement will go into my Liability Account, right? So 
does my payment to the CC company come out of Assets and into Liability? And, 
if so, how do I assign it on the CC Account transaction line?
Thanks All,
Edwin


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 25, 2023, 12:01 PM, Edwin Booth  
wrote:

How do I add a new Expense Account? I’d like to assign transactions in my CC 
(liability) account to a few additional expense accounts. GnuCash said I could 
“add more later” but I cannot seem to do it right. Do I have to assign that 
account to some different top-level account?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 19, 2023, 12:24 PM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user 
 wrote:

Thank you. I’ll try it that way. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 19, 2023, 11:26 AM, Steve Butler  wrote:



On Wed, Oct 18, 2023, 23:04 Edwin Booth  wrote:

Steve,
Thanks for getting back to me!
It seems that I need to first delete my newly downloaded file from GnuCash and 
re-import it but first assign all the

Yes, remove those transitions or restore to a pre-import backup.
transactions to various accounts. I have
This is done during the import process just after you open the file.  You 
should see a list of the transactions that will be loaded.  Pick each one and 
be sure it has the correct destination account.  That's how the import process 
is taught.
 gone through the process (I think) of creating a hierarchy of accounts (though 
I will surely want to add more expense accounts later).

Okay, I have deleted the AMEX credit card OFX account that I imported into 
GnuCash and have gone back to my Mac Downloads file. How do I now assign all 
those transactions to their proper accounts without first importing this OFX 
file into GnuCash? Doesn’t it have to be in GnuCash before it can even know 
what accounts are available?
It’s late now, so I’ll wait for an answer to this first question before going 
on. 
But for some reason I saw this email in my Yahoo mail app rather than in my 
Gmail app. Please respond to this by sending out my Gmail account. 
elybee...@gnail.com. 
Thanks,
Edwin


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 18, 2023, 2:05 PM, Stephen M. Butler  
wrote:

Edwin,

I routinely download my CC transactions using OFX.  I think you missed a 
very important step.

It sounds like you did tie this OFX file to your CC Liability Account.  
That will be remembered for all future imports from this CC.

It also sounds like you may not have set up all the various expense 
accounts (Groceries, Fuel, Hardware, etc).  Those need to be setup as 
accounts under the Expense top-level account.

Then, during the import process, after you pick the file but before 
doing the actual import step you will see a list of all the 
transactions.  During this first import none of them will show the 
corresponding expense account.  You will need to click on each line and 
indicate to which account that expense should be assigned.  In some 
cases you will have a payment so up.  For the first time you will need 
to assign this to your Asset/Checking account.

This process of assigning accounts to each transaction will teach the 
import process how to automatically assign them in the future. As the 
importer learns each transaction (based on the description), it will 
begin to automatically assign the proper accounts. Occasionally you may 
need to correct the account assignment or it may see a new description 
and not know leaving it assigned to the Invalid Account.  This is your 
clue to click on that line (perhaps double click) and make the 
appropriate assignment.

Hopefully this helps you on future imports.

--Steve

Stephen M Butler
stephen.m.butle...@gmail.com
kg...@arrl.net
253-350-0166
---
GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8

On 10/18/23 11:09, Edwin Booth wrote:
> Hi. New to this. I just downloaded an OFX file for a credit card I have. I
> imported it into my “Unsaved Book.” That worked. It is now on the Accounts
> Page with an amount under the “Total” column. But there is also a line that
> says “Imbalance-USD” with the same same amount under Total. I understand (I
> think) that that Imbalance is due to the fact that I have no other account
> in there and so there is nothing to balance my CC account with.
>
> So, I obviously need to enter some new accounts. I haven’t paid off all of
> that CC 

Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Fred Tydeman]

At top left of screen, click on Accounts.
Then under Account Name, click on Expenses
Then click on New at top of screen.
that will get you a popup to create a new account.

On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 10:02 AM Edwin Booth via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> How do I add a new Expense Account? I’d like to assign transactions in my
> CC (liability) account to a few additional expense accounts. GnuCash said I
> could “add more later” but I cannot seem to do it right. Do I have to
> assign that account to some different top-level account?
>
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Edwin Booth via gnucash-user]

How do I add a new Expense Account? I’d like to assign transactions in my CC 
(liability) account to a few additional expense accounts. GnuCash said I could 
“add more later” but I cannot seem to do it right. Do I have to assign that 
account to some different top-level account?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 19, 2023, 12:24 PM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user 
 wrote:

Thank you. I’ll try it that way. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 19, 2023, 11:26 AM, Steve Butler  wrote:



On Wed, Oct 18, 2023, 23:04 Edwin Booth  wrote:

Steve,
Thanks for getting back to me!
It seems that I need to first delete my newly downloaded file from GnuCash and 
re-import it but first assign all the

Yes, remove those transitions or restore to a pre-import backup.
transactions to various accounts. I have
This is done during the import process just after you open the file.  You 
should see a list of the transactions that will be loaded.  Pick each one and 
be sure it has the correct destination account.  That's how the import process 
is taught.
 gone through the process (I think) of creating a hierarchy of accounts (though 
I will surely want to add more expense accounts later).

Okay, I have deleted the AMEX credit card OFX account that I imported into 
GnuCash and have gone back to my Mac Downloads file. How do I now assign all 
those transactions to their proper accounts without first importing this OFX 
file into GnuCash? Doesn’t it have to be in GnuCash before it can even know 
what accounts are available?
It’s late now, so I’ll wait for an answer to this first question before going 
on. 
But for some reason I saw this email in my Yahoo mail app rather than in my 
Gmail app. Please respond to this by sending out my Gmail account. 
elybee...@gnail.com. 
Thanks,
Edwin


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 18, 2023, 2:05 PM, Stephen M. Butler  
wrote:

Edwin,

I routinely download my CC transactions using OFX.  I think you missed a 
very important step.

It sounds like you did tie this OFX file to your CC Liability Account.  
That will be remembered for all future imports from this CC.

It also sounds like you may not have set up all the various expense 
accounts (Groceries, Fuel, Hardware, etc).  Those need to be setup as 
accounts under the Expense top-level account.

Then, during the import process, after you pick the file but before 
doing the actual import step you will see a list of all the 
transactions.  During this first import none of them will show the 
corresponding expense account.  You will need to click on each line and 
indicate to which account that expense should be assigned.  In some 
cases you will have a payment so up.  For the first time you will need 
to assign this to your Asset/Checking account.

This process of assigning accounts to each transaction will teach the 
import process how to automatically assign them in the future. As the 
importer learns each transaction (based on the description), it will 
begin to automatically assign the proper accounts. Occasionally you may 
need to correct the account assignment or it may see a new description 
and not know leaving it assigned to the Invalid Account.  This is your 
clue to click on that line (perhaps double click) and make the 
appropriate assignment.

Hopefully this helps you on future imports.

--Steve

Stephen M Butler
stephen.m.butle...@gmail.com
kg...@arrl.net
253-350-0166
---
GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8

On 10/18/23 11:09, Edwin Booth wrote:
> Hi. New to this. I just downloaded an OFX file for a credit card I have. I
> imported it into my “Unsaved Book.” That worked. It is now on the Accounts
> Page with an amount under the “Total” column. But there is also a line that
> says “Imbalance-USD” with the same same amount under Total. I understand (I
> think) that that Imbalance is due to the fact that I have no other account
> in there and so there is nothing to balance my CC account with.
>
> So, I obviously need to enter some new accounts. I haven’t paid off all of
> that CC account, but I have paid some of it. The unpaid portion would be
> under “Liability” I assume, and the paid part under “Expense.”
>
> Not sure what to do next. I’m running GnuCash on a MacBook Pro, which I’m
> also pretty new at.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Edwin
> ___
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[GNC] re I need basic help

[Neil Campbell]

Hello Christopher

As a non-accountant (although I pretend to be one sometimes) I can't figure
out Dr/Cr except that Dr=left,Cr=right.

As a non-accountant, this simple way of looking at it may help with 
understanding Debits and Credits. 
You always Debit the receiving account and credit the parting account. 
So, for example, If you run a cash business and you bank $100, the bank 
received the money and you parted with goods or services which are called 
Sales, so you Debit Bank and Credit Sales. If you have a Debtors system then 
this same transaction would be Debit Bank (receiving the money) and Credit the 
Debtor (parting with the money).

This simple test can be applied to any transaction and it works every time. You 
will soon become used to the logic involved.  

Hope this helps.
Neil
neilcam...@gmail.com




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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Kalpesh Patel]

I reckon that is why this wonderful World accommodates more than 'One size fits 
all' ... hence also there are more than one school in the World! 

I mean I go and ask SME's when I am outside of my expertise. I hope nothing is 
wrong with it. Now on to figuring out which school to go ...

-Original Message-
From: G R Hewitt  
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 1:59 AM
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] I need basic help

Good point, which is probably why schools are the worst place to send your 
child, 'One size fits all'.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2023 at 22:39, Liz  wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 09:12:57 -0700
> "Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)"  wrote:
>
> > It strikes me that you're trying to use GnuCash without first 
> > reading the documentation. That's like trying to run before you can walk.
> > Others have already made the suggestion, but maybe you missed their 
> > messages.
>
> People learn in different ways.
> So Edwin learns by doing and asking when reaching a difficulty.
>
>
> Liz
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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>


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Christopher Lam]

As a non-accountant (although I pretend to be one sometimes) I can't figure
out Dr/Cr except that Dr=left,Cr=right.

But I do understand numbers (referring to dollars, or, a hot potato).

My 4 Rules:
1. Each transaction must total to zero (i.e. after a transaction is
complete, no hot potato burning my hand)
2. A positive balance in my bank account is reassuring (lots of hot
potatoes in my bank)
3. An income amount is usually negative, because it denotes the world.
(i.e. when I receive income, the world loses some potatoes).
4. No potatoes are created or destroyed

Example. I offer labour, I get paid in dollars
Income:Salary -$200
Asset:Bank +$200

I purchase from the shops
Asset:Bank -$50
Expenses:Groceries +$50

I invest some of my dollars, and borrow a lot of dollars to buy a house.
Asset:Bank -$100
Liability:Loan -$99,900
Asset:House +$100,000

etc.

Note within a transaction the total must always be zero. Incidentally
Gnucash stores amounts exactly like these potatoes above.

On Mon, 23 Oct 2023 at 01:37, Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> Edwin,
>
> Debit/Credit is just Left/Right.
>
>
>
> Maybe this will help...
>
> The Accounting Equation:
>
> Assets - Liabilities = Equity
>
> (let's make all terms 'positive')
>
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity
>
> (now, we'll split off a subset of Equity)
>
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings
>
> (now, we'll substitute temporary accounts for Retained Earnings)
>
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity + (Income - Expenses)
>
> (now, we'll once again, make all terms 'positive')
>
> Assets + Expenses = Liabilities + Equity + Income
>
>
> And there, you have the full Accounting Equation with the five major
> account types that GnuCash uses.
>
> -
>
> In double-entry accounting, ALL transactions are in the form of:
>
> Debit = Credit
>
> Left = Right
>
>
> The 'Debit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Debit
> balance, and increase with a Debit, decrease with a Credit) are on the
> left of the equation:
>
> Assets
> Expenses
>
> The 'Credit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Credit
> balance, and increase with a Credit, decrease with a Debit) are those on
> the right of the equation:
>
> Liabilities
> Equity
> Income
>
> A negative balance in any account would indicate either an entry error
> or a contra-balance situation. (rare for individuals)
>
> -
> You can move funds from the left to the right, or vice versa, or between
> any accounts or types on the same side of the equation. (I will use the
> abbreviations Dr. and Cr. here)
>
> Most texts will write transactions Debit first, then Credit as shown
> below. The amounts are not shown, because they *must* be equal.
>
>
> Example Left to Right - Asset to Liability (paying down a debt)
>
> Dr. Liabilities:Loan
>Cr. Assets:Cash
>
> result: decreased Loan owed, decreased Cash on hand, Assets decreased,
> Liabilities decreased - equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Right to Left - Income to Asset (receipt of income)
>
> Dr. Assets:Cash
>Cr. Income:Salary
>
> result: increased Cash on hand, increased Salary earned, Assets
> increased, Income increased - equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Left to Left(same type) - Asset to Asset (buying land outright)
>
> Dr. Assets:Land
>Cr. Assets:Cash
>
> result: increased Land owned, decreased Cash on hand, Assets shifted -
> equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Left to Left(different type) - Asset to Expense (buying groceries)
>
> Dr. Expenses:Food
>Cr. Assets:Cash
>
> result: increased Food expense, decreased Cash on hand, Expenses
> increased, Assets decreased - equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Right to Right(same type) - Liability to Liability (paying down
> a loan with a credit card)
>
> Dr. Liabilities:Loan
>Cr. Liabilities:Credit Card
>
> result: decreased Loan owed, increased Credit Card owed, Liabilities
> shifted - equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Right to Right(different type) - Equity to Liability
> (recognition of dividends to be paid - business transaction)
>
> Dr. Equity:Retained Earnings
>Cr. Liabilities:Dividends Payable
>
> result: decreased Retained Earnings, increased Dividends owed to
> shareholders, Equity decreased, Liability increased - equation remains
> in balance.
>
>
>
> *it is rare and unusualy for an individual to shift Equity to
> Liabilities and vice versa. Forgiveness of Debt may in some
> jurisdictions be a transfer from Liabilities to Income.
>
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> O

Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[G R Hewitt]

Good point, which is probably why schools are the worst place to send your
child, 'One size fits all'.

On Tue, 24 Oct 2023 at 22:39, Liz  wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 09:12:57 -0700
> "Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)"  wrote:
>
> > It strikes me that you're trying to use GnuCash without first reading
> > the documentation. That's like trying to run before you can walk.
> > Others have already made the suggestion, but maybe you missed their
> > messages.
>
> People learn in different ways.
> So Edwin learns by doing and asking when reaching a difficulty.
>
>
> Liz
> ___
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> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Mark at Lorimark]

two thumbs up!

On 10/24/23 16:35, Liz wrote:

On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 09:12:57 -0700
"Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)"  wrote:


It strikes me that you're trying to use GnuCash without first reading
the documentation. That's like trying to run before you can walk.
Others have already made the suggestion, but maybe you missed their
messages.


People learn in different ways.
So Edwin learns by doing and asking when reaching a difficulty.


Liz
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Liz]

On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 09:12:57 -0700
"Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)"  wrote:

> It strikes me that you're trying to use GnuCash without first reading
> the documentation. That's like trying to run before you can walk.
> Others have already made the suggestion, but maybe you missed their
> messages.

People learn in different ways.
So Edwin learns by doing and asking when reaching a difficulty.


Liz
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Edward Bainton]

If I can add my own beginner’s 2ç:

One breakthrough came for me when I realised  that the statement of
financial position is basically a catalogue of what would happen if you
were to die* right now.

All that’s owed to you (debits) gets given to others (credits).

Your net position is always zero: as they say, you can’t take any of it
with you.



*Or if your company were liquidated.


On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 at 19:21, Stan Brown (using GC 4.14) <
stan...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> On 2023-10-22 10:42, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> > I am also of the opinion that hiding or obfuscating terms and concepts
> > is not the solution.
>
> +1
>
> It usually makes things harder not easier, as this very thread has
> illustrated at great length.
>
> Stan Brown
> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> https://BrownMath.com/
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Adrien Monteleone]

That might be the section I was referencing in my reply to David C.

Maybe it just could use an edit? I'll look it over.

Regards,
Adrien

On 10/23/23 10:28 AM, sunfish62--- via gnucash-user wrote:

Doesn't Chapter 2.1 Accounting Concepts cover exactly this?


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[sunfish62--- via gnucash-user]

Doesn't Chapter 2.1 Accounting Concepts cover exactly this? 

⁣David T. ​

On Oct 22, 2023, 11:46 PM, at 11:46 PM, David Cousens 
 wrote:
>Adrien,
>
>This needs to make it into the Basics section of the Guide. I am
>planning to
>revise it when I get a break from grandchildren and other activities in
>line
>with some of flywire's comments re putting transaction explanation
>before the
>details of accounts. 
>
>David
>
>On Sun, 2023-10-22 at 12:36 -0500, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
>> Edwin,
>> 
>> Debit/Credit is just Left/Right.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Maybe this will help...
>> 
>> The Accounting Equation:
>> 
>> Assets - Liabilities = Equity
>> 
>> (let's make all terms 'positive')
>> 
>> Assets = Liabilities + Equity
>> 
>> (now, we'll split off a subset of Equity)
>> 
>> Assets = Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings
>> 
>> (now, we'll substitute temporary accounts for Retained
>Earnings)
>> 
>> Assets = Liabilities + Equity + (Income - Expenses)
>> 
>> (now, we'll once again, make all terms 'positive')
>> 
>> Assets + Expenses = Liabilities + Equity + Income
>> 
>> 
>> And there, you have the full Accounting Equation with the five major 
>> account types that GnuCash uses.
>> 
>> -
>> 
>> In double-entry accounting, ALL transactions are in the form of:
>> 
>> Debit = Credit
>> 
>> Left = Right
>> 
>> 
>> The 'Debit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Debit 
>> balance, and increase with a Debit, decrease with a Credit) are on
>the 
>> left of the equation:
>> 
>> Assets
>> Expenses
>> 
>> The 'Credit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Credit 
>> balance, and increase with a Credit, decrease with a Debit) are those
>on 
>> the right of the equation:
>> 
>> Liabilities
>> Equity
>> Income
>> 
>> A negative balance in any account would indicate either an entry
>error 
>> or a contra-balance situation. (rare for individuals)
>> 
>> -
>> You can move funds from the left to the right, or vice versa, or
>between 
>> any accounts or types on the same side of the equation. (I will use
>the 
>> abbreviations Dr. and Cr. here)
>> 
>> Most texts will write transactions Debit first, then Credit as shown 
>> below. The amounts are not shown, because they *must* be equal.
>> 
>> 
>> Example Left to Right - Asset to Liability (paying down a debt)
>> 
>> Dr. Liabilities:Loan
>>    Cr. Assets:Cash
>> 
>> result: decreased Loan owed, decreased Cash on hand, Assets
>decreased, 
>> Liabilities decreased - equation still in balance
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Example Right to Left - Income to Asset (receipt of income)
>> 
>> Dr. Assets:Cash
>>    Cr. Income:Salary
>> 
>> result: increased Cash on hand, increased Salary earned, Assets 
>> increased, Income increased - equation still in balance
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Example Left to Left(same type) - Asset to Asset (buying land
>outright)
>> 
>> Dr. Assets:Land
>>    Cr. Assets:Cash
>> 
>> result: increased Land owned, decreased Cash on hand, Assets shifted
>- 
>> equation still in balance
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Example Left to Left(different type) - Asset to Expense (buying
>groceries)
>> 
>> Dr. Expenses:Food
>>    Cr. Assets:Cash
>> 
>> result: increased Food expense, decreased Cash on hand, Expenses 
>> increased, Assets decreased - equation still in balance
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Example Right to Right(same type) - Liability to Liability (paying
>down 
>> a loan with a credit card)
>> 
>> Dr. Liabilities:Loan
>>    Cr. Liabilities:Credit Card
>> 
>> result: decreased Loan owed, increased Credit Card owed, Liabilities 
>> shifted - equation still in balance
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Example Right to Right(different type) - Equity to Liability 
>> (recognition of dividends to be paid - business transaction)
>> 
>> Dr. Equity:Retained Earnings
>>    Cr. Liabilities:Dividends Payable
>> 
>> result: decreased Retained Earnings, increased Dividends owed to 
>> shareholders, Equity decreased, Liability increased - equation
>remains 
>> in balance.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *it is rare and unusualy for an individual to shift Equity to 
>> Liabilities and vice versa. Forgiveness of Debt may in some 
>> jurisdictions 

Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Adrien Monteleone]

Hilarious!

Regards,
Adrien

On 10/23/23 3:41 AM, G R Hewitt wrote:

Thanks, Adrian, for that clear explanation, it has raised me out of the
Baldrick class nicely:

Blackadder : Right Baldrick, let's try again shall we? This is called
adding. If I have two beans, and then I add two more beans, what do I have?
Baldrick : Some beans.
Blackadder : Yes... and no. Let's try again shall we? I have two beans,
then I add two more beans. What does that make?
Baldrick : A very small casserole.
Blackadder : Baldrick, the ape creatures of the Indus have mastered this.
Now try again. One, two, three, four. So how many are there?
Baldrick : Three.
Blackadder : What?
Baldrick : ...and that one.
Blackadder : Three and that one. So if I add that one to the three what
will I have?
Baldrick : Oh. Some beans.
Blackadder : Yes. To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just something that
happened to other people, wasn't it?


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[G R Hewitt]

Thanks, Adrian, for that clear explanation, it has raised me out of the
Baldrick class nicely:

Blackadder : Right Baldrick, let's try again shall we? This is called
adding. If I have two beans, and then I add two more beans, what do I have?
Baldrick : Some beans.
Blackadder : Yes... and no. Let's try again shall we? I have two beans,
then I add two more beans. What does that make?
Baldrick : A very small casserole.
Blackadder : Baldrick, the ape creatures of the Indus have mastered this.
Now try again. One, two, three, four. So how many are there?
Baldrick : Three.
Blackadder : What?
Baldrick : ...and that one.
Blackadder : Three and that one. So if I add that one to the three what
will I have?
Baldrick : Oh. Some beans.
Blackadder : Yes. To you Baldrick, the Renaissance was just something that
happened to other people, wasn't it?

On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 at 18:38, Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> Edwin,
>
> Debit/Credit is just Left/Right.
>
>
>
> Maybe this will help...
>
> The Accounting Equation:
>
> Assets - Liabilities = Equity
>
> (let's make all terms 'positive')
>
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity
>
> (now, we'll split off a subset of Equity)
>
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings
>
> (now, we'll substitute temporary accounts for Retained Earnings)
>
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity + (Income - Expenses)
>
> (now, we'll once again, make all terms 'positive')
>
> Assets + Expenses = Liabilities + Equity + Income
>
>
> And there, you have the full Accounting Equation with the five major
> account types that GnuCash uses.
>
> -
>
> In double-entry accounting, ALL transactions are in the form of:
>
> Debit = Credit
>
> Left = Right
>
>
> The 'Debit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Debit
> balance, and increase with a Debit, decrease with a Credit) are on the
> left of the equation:
>
> Assets
> Expenses
>
> The 'Credit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Credit
> balance, and increase with a Credit, decrease with a Debit) are those on
> the right of the equation:
>
> Liabilities
> Equity
> Income
>
> A negative balance in any account would indicate either an entry error
> or a contra-balance situation. (rare for individuals)
>
> -
> You can move funds from the left to the right, or vice versa, or between
> any accounts or types on the same side of the equation. (I will use the
> abbreviations Dr. and Cr. here)
>
> Most texts will write transactions Debit first, then Credit as shown
> below. The amounts are not shown, because they *must* be equal.
>
>
> Example Left to Right - Asset to Liability (paying down a debt)
>
> Dr. Liabilities:Loan
>Cr. Assets:Cash
>
> result: decreased Loan owed, decreased Cash on hand, Assets decreased,
> Liabilities decreased - equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Right to Left - Income to Asset (receipt of income)
>
> Dr. Assets:Cash
>Cr. Income:Salary
>
> result: increased Cash on hand, increased Salary earned, Assets
> increased, Income increased - equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Left to Left(same type) - Asset to Asset (buying land outright)
>
> Dr. Assets:Land
>Cr. Assets:Cash
>
> result: increased Land owned, decreased Cash on hand, Assets shifted -
> equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Left to Left(different type) - Asset to Expense (buying groceries)
>
> Dr. Expenses:Food
>Cr. Assets:Cash
>
> result: increased Food expense, decreased Cash on hand, Expenses
> increased, Assets decreased - equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Right to Right(same type) - Liability to Liability (paying down
> a loan with a credit card)
>
> Dr. Liabilities:Loan
>Cr. Liabilities:Credit Card
>
> result: decreased Loan owed, increased Credit Card owed, Liabilities
> shifted - equation still in balance
>
>
>
> Example Right to Right(different type) - Equity to Liability
> (recognition of dividends to be paid - business transaction)
>
> Dr. Equity:Retained Earnings
>Cr. Liabilities:Dividends Payable
>
> result: decreased Retained Earnings, increased Dividends owed to
> shareholders, Equity decreased, Liability increased - equation remains
> in balance.
>
>
>
> *it is rare and unusualy for an individual to shift Equity to
> Liabilities and vice versa. Forgiveness of Debt may in some
> jurisdictions be a transfer from Liabilities to Income.
>
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 10/20/23 12:02 AM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:
> > I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.
>
> 

Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Adrien Monteleone]

Cool, thanks!

(I attempted to setup a documentation build workflow long ago but put it 
on a back burner along with a pile of other things. I need to bring it 
to the front. In the meantime, thanks for considering this a worthy 
addition.)


There is already some discussion with nice graphics concerning the 
Accounting Equation. Perhaps that is the place to work this material in.


Regards,
Adrien

On 10/22/23 3:44 PM, David Cousens wrote:

Adrien,

This needs to make it into the Basics section of the Guide. I am planning to
revise it when I get a break from grandchildren and other activities in line
with some of flywire's comments re putting transaction explanation before the
details of accounts.

David

On Sun, 2023-10-22 at 12:36 -0500, Adrien Monteleone wrote:

Edwin,

Debit/Credit is just Left/Right.



Maybe this will help...

The Accounting Equation:

Assets - Liabilities = Equity

 (let's make all terms 'positive')

Assets = Liabilities + Equity

 (now, we'll split off a subset of Equity)

Assets = Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings

 (now, we'll substitute temporary accounts for Retained Earnings)

Assets = Liabilities + Equity + (Income - Expenses)

 (now, we'll once again, make all terms 'positive')

Assets + Expenses = Liabilities + Equity + Income


And there, you have the full Accounting Equation with the five major
account types that GnuCash uses.

-

In double-entry accounting, ALL transactions are in the form of:

Debit = Credit

Left = Right


The 'Debit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Debit
balance, and increase with a Debit, decrease with a Credit) are on the
left of the equation:

Assets
Expenses

The 'Credit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Credit
balance, and increase with a Credit, decrease with a Debit) are those on
the right of the equation:

Liabilities
Equity
Income

A negative balance in any account would indicate either an entry error
or a contra-balance situation. (rare for individuals)

-
You can move funds from the left to the right, or vice versa, or between
any accounts or types on the same side of the equation. (I will use the
abbreviations Dr. and Cr. here)

Most texts will write transactions Debit first, then Credit as shown
below. The amounts are not shown, because they *must* be equal.


Example Left to Right - Asset to Liability (paying down a debt)

Dr. Liabilities:Loan
    Cr. Assets:Cash

result: decreased Loan owed, decreased Cash on hand, Assets decreased,
Liabilities decreased - equation still in balance



Example Right to Left - Income to Asset (receipt of income)

Dr. Assets:Cash
    Cr. Income:Salary

result: increased Cash on hand, increased Salary earned, Assets
increased, Income increased - equation still in balance



Example Left to Left(same type) - Asset to Asset (buying land outright)

Dr. Assets:Land
    Cr. Assets:Cash

result: increased Land owned, decreased Cash on hand, Assets shifted -
equation still in balance



Example Left to Left(different type) - Asset to Expense (buying groceries)

Dr. Expenses:Food
    Cr. Assets:Cash

result: increased Food expense, decreased Cash on hand, Expenses
increased, Assets decreased - equation still in balance



Example Right to Right(same type) - Liability to Liability (paying down
a loan with a credit card)

Dr. Liabilities:Loan
    Cr. Liabilities:Credit Card

result: decreased Loan owed, increased Credit Card owed, Liabilities
shifted - equation still in balance



Example Right to Right(different type) - Equity to Liability
(recognition of dividends to be paid - business transaction)

Dr. Equity:Retained Earnings
    Cr. Liabilities:Dividends Payable

result: decreased Retained Earnings, increased Dividends owed to
shareholders, Equity decreased, Liability increased - equation remains
in balance.



*it is rare and unusualy for an individual to shift Equity to
Liabilities and vice versa. Forgiveness of Debt may in some
jurisdictions be a transfer from Liabilities to Income.


Regards,
Adrien

On 10/20/23 12:02 AM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:

I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.


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Re: [GNC] Bravo, Adrien, well explained! [was: Re: I need basic help]

[Adrien Monteleone]

You're welcome!

I think I have a longer winded version in another thread somewhere, but 
I think this one does a better job.


Regards,
Adrien

On 10/22/23 3:30 PM, Mark at Lorimark wrote:
Geez, I scraped it and put it in my database and  called it "Accounting 
Principles Explained".


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[David Cousens]

Adrien,

This needs to make it into the Basics section of the Guide. I am planning to
revise it when I get a break from grandchildren and other activities in line
with some of flywire's comments re putting transaction explanation before the
details of accounts. 

David

On Sun, 2023-10-22 at 12:36 -0500, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> Edwin,
> 
> Debit/Credit is just Left/Right.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe this will help...
> 
> The Accounting Equation:
> 
> Assets - Liabilities = Equity
> 
> (let's make all terms 'positive')
> 
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity
> 
> (now, we'll split off a subset of Equity)
> 
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings
> 
> (now, we'll substitute temporary accounts for Retained Earnings)
> 
> Assets = Liabilities + Equity + (Income - Expenses)
> 
> (now, we'll once again, make all terms 'positive')
> 
> Assets + Expenses = Liabilities + Equity + Income
> 
> 
> And there, you have the full Accounting Equation with the five major 
> account types that GnuCash uses.
> 
> -
> 
> In double-entry accounting, ALL transactions are in the form of:
> 
> Debit = Credit
> 
> Left = Right
> 
> 
> The 'Debit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Debit 
> balance, and increase with a Debit, decrease with a Credit) are on the 
> left of the equation:
> 
> Assets
> Expenses
> 
> The 'Credit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Credit 
> balance, and increase with a Credit, decrease with a Debit) are those on 
> the right of the equation:
> 
> Liabilities
> Equity
> Income
> 
> A negative balance in any account would indicate either an entry error 
> or a contra-balance situation. (rare for individuals)
> 
> -
> You can move funds from the left to the right, or vice versa, or between 
> any accounts or types on the same side of the equation. (I will use the 
> abbreviations Dr. and Cr. here)
> 
> Most texts will write transactions Debit first, then Credit as shown 
> below. The amounts are not shown, because they *must* be equal.
> 
> 
> Example Left to Right - Asset to Liability (paying down a debt)
> 
> Dr. Liabilities:Loan
>    Cr. Assets:Cash
> 
> result: decreased Loan owed, decreased Cash on hand, Assets decreased, 
> Liabilities decreased - equation still in balance
> 
> 
> 
> Example Right to Left - Income to Asset (receipt of income)
> 
> Dr. Assets:Cash
>    Cr. Income:Salary
> 
> result: increased Cash on hand, increased Salary earned, Assets 
> increased, Income increased - equation still in balance
> 
> 
> 
> Example Left to Left(same type) - Asset to Asset (buying land outright)
> 
> Dr. Assets:Land
>    Cr. Assets:Cash
> 
> result: increased Land owned, decreased Cash on hand, Assets shifted - 
> equation still in balance
> 
> 
> 
> Example Left to Left(different type) - Asset to Expense (buying groceries)
> 
> Dr. Expenses:Food
>    Cr. Assets:Cash
> 
> result: increased Food expense, decreased Cash on hand, Expenses 
> increased, Assets decreased - equation still in balance
> 
> 
> 
> Example Right to Right(same type) - Liability to Liability (paying down 
> a loan with a credit card)
> 
> Dr. Liabilities:Loan
>    Cr. Liabilities:Credit Card
> 
> result: decreased Loan owed, increased Credit Card owed, Liabilities 
> shifted - equation still in balance
> 
> 
> 
> Example Right to Right(different type) - Equity to Liability 
> (recognition of dividends to be paid - business transaction)
> 
> Dr. Equity:Retained Earnings
>    Cr. Liabilities:Dividends Payable
> 
> result: decreased Retained Earnings, increased Dividends owed to 
> shareholders, Equity decreased, Liability increased - equation remains 
> in balance.
> 
> 
> 
> *it is rare and unusualy for an individual to shift Equity to 
> Liabilities and vice versa. Forgiveness of Debt may in some 
> jurisdictions be a transfer from Liabilities to Income.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Adrien
> 
> On 10/20/23 12:02 AM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:
> > I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.
> 
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Re: [GNC] Bravo, Adrien, well explained! [was: Re: I need basic help]

[Adrien Monteleone]

You're quite welcome Jim, and here I thought I was the one learning from 
you!


We all have something to offer others, is I think, the lesson here.

Regards,
Adrien

On 10/22/23 3:23 PM, Jim DeLaHunt wrote:

Bravo, Adrien!

You weren't writing this message for me, but you happened to write the 
explanation of "debit" and "credit" which I found very clear. I realise 
that this won't be the ideal explanation for everyone, but it was for me.


Thank you for helping me understand. And thank you to everyone who has 
taken the trouble to explain things on this -user list. You help more 
-users than perhaps you will know.


Best regards,
     —Jim DeLaHunt, long-time GnuCash user who is about to start using 
"formal accounting labels"


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Re: [GNC] Bravo, Adrien, well explained! [was: Re: I need basic help]

[Mark at Lorimark]

Geez, I scraped it and put it in my database and  called it "Accounting 
Principles Explained".


Thank you Adrien!

On 10/22/23 15:23, Jim DeLaHunt wrote:

Bravo, Adrien!

You weren't writing this message for me, but you happened to write the 
explanation of "debit" and "credit" which I found very clear. I realise 
that this won't be the ideal explanation for everyone, but it was for me.



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[GNC] Bravo, Adrien, well explained! [was: Re: I need basic help]

[Jim DeLaHunt]

Bravo, Adrien!

You weren't writing this message for me, but you happened to write the 
explanation of "debit" and "credit" which I found very clear. I realise 
that this won't be the ideal explanation for everyone, but it was for me.


Thank you for helping me understand. And thank you to everyone who has 
taken the trouble to explain things on this -user list. You help more 
-users than perhaps you will know.


Best regards,
    —Jim DeLaHunt, long-time GnuCash user who is about to start using 
"formal accounting labels"



On 2023-10-22 10:36, Adrien Monteleone wrote:

Edwin,

Debit/Credit is just Left/Right.



Maybe this will help...

The Accounting Equation:

Assets - Liabilities = Equity

(let's make all terms 'positive')

Assets = Liabilities + Equity

(now, we'll split off a subset of Equity)

Assets = Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings

(now, we'll substitute temporary accounts for Retained Earnings)

Assets = Liabilities + Equity + (Income - Expenses)

(now, we'll once again, make all terms 'positive')

Assets + Expenses = Liabilities + Equity + Income


And there, you have the full Accounting Equation with the five major 
account types that GnuCash uses.


-

In double-entry accounting, ALL transactions are in the form of:

Debit = Credit

Left = Right


The 'Debit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Debit 
balance, and increase with a Debit, decrease with a Credit) are on the 
left of the equation:


Assets
Expenses

The 'Credit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Credit 
balance, and increase with a Credit, decrease with a Debit) are those 
on the right of the equation:


Liabilities
Equity
Income

A negative balance in any account would indicate either an entry error 
or a contra-balance situation. (rare for individuals)


-
You can move funds from the left to the right, or vice versa, or 
between any accounts or types on the same side of the equation. (I 
will use the abbreviations Dr. and Cr. here)


Most texts will write transactions Debit first, then Credit as shown 
below. The amounts are not shown, because they *must* be equal.



Example Left to Right - Asset to Liability (paying down a debt)

Dr. Liabilities:Loan
  Cr. Assets:Cash

result: decreased Loan owed, decreased Cash on hand, Assets decreased, 
Liabilities decreased - equation still in balance




Example Right to Left - Income to Asset (receipt of income)

Dr. Assets:Cash
  Cr. Income:Salary

result: increased Cash on hand, increased Salary earned, Assets 
increased, Income increased - equation still in balance




Example Left to Left(same type) - Asset to Asset (buying land outright)

Dr. Assets:Land
  Cr. Assets:Cash

result: increased Land owned, decreased Cash on hand, Assets shifted - 
equation still in balance




Example Left to Left(different type) - Asset to Expense (buying 
groceries)


Dr. Expenses:Food
  Cr. Assets:Cash

result: increased Food expense, decreased Cash on hand, Expenses 
increased, Assets decreased - equation still in balance




Example Right to Right(same type) - Liability to Liability (paying 
down a loan with a credit card)


Dr. Liabilities:Loan
  Cr. Liabilities:Credit Card

result: decreased Loan owed, increased Credit Card owed, Liabilities 
shifted - equation still in balance




Example Right to Right(different type) - Equity to Liability 
(recognition of dividends to be paid - business transaction)


Dr. Equity:Retained Earnings
  Cr. Liabilities:Dividends Payable

result: decreased Retained Earnings, increased Dividends owed to 
shareholders, Equity decreased, Liability increased - equation remains 
in balance.




*it is rare and unusualy for an individual to shift Equity to 
Liabilities and vice versa. Forgiveness of Debt may in some 
jurisdictions be a transfer from Liabilities to Income.



Regards,
Adrien

On 10/20/23 12:02 AM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:

I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)]

On 2023-10-22 10:42, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> I am also of the opinion that hiding or obfuscating terms and concepts
> is not the solution.

+1

It usually makes things harder not easier, as this very thread has
illustrated at great length.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Adrien Monteleone]

I am also of the opinion that hiding or obfuscating terms and concepts 
is not the solution.


Education is.

Yeah, I got an A in Accounting 101, big whoop, but I've understood it by 
leaps and bounds decades later by using GnuCash with formal labels 
turned on. (and using the Transaction Journal View) And I've learned 
even more trying to explain it to others. (one learns a subject most by 
trying to teach it)


Regards,
Adrien

On 10/20/23 8:35 PM, David Cousens wrote:


I do agree with the comments in your previous post that the concept of
transactions needs to be explained before or at least in parallel to  concept of
accounts. I rewrote a fair bit of the basics section of the guide when I was
fresh out of an accounting master's which might account for its more technical
bias.  I haven't revisited the guide much since then but I will take another
look at it. It is always a compromise between producing a full scale textbook
and brevity that someone will actually read.

Some other accounting software does indeed hide the details of the debit/credit
and the accounting equation and double entry from users. I am a convert from
software that did that and because that basis was hidden it made understanding
the accounts more difficult than it should, particularly during the setup phase
of a business. Add to that my highly paid accountant (one of big 4) was not
particularly useful. That can be useful for a lot of routine data entry, however
it is the edge cases that often require a deeper understanding of the basis of
double entry accounting.

I disagree however that the non-accounting terminology should be the default.
The non-accounting terminology is often not precise in its meaning whereas once
you have understood the definitions, the meaning of the accounting terminology
and its use is well defined.  Accounting is a well documented commercial
practice and the double entry system is core to its operation and GnuCash is
primarily accounting software, not general financial software although it does a
very good job for small operations and can be adapted to that use.

It is also an excellent educational tool for formal accounting. I used it as
such while doing amaster's and it produced basic reports which conformed well
with what was expected for formal accounting reports.


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Adrien Monteleone]

By default, formal labels are not used. GnuCash already caters to this idea.

Regards,
Adrien

On 10/20/23 5:48 PM, flywire wrote:

https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-October/109184.html
Edwin Booth wrote:

I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.


No you don't but you do need to understand the concept of account types and
moving money between them. I've studied economics at Uni, evaluated endless
projects, used a range of accounting software, and worked with
accountants and bookkeepers without being aware of how credit and debit is
defined in accounting. I rarely used the terms, and most people that
understood them would realise the common understanding is wrong and use the
terms in a general sense or avoid them.

It's a pretty meaningless discussion commercial projects avoid to reduce
confusion. The user documentation would be clearer with simple language:
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-May/106929.html


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Adrien Monteleone]

Edwin,

Debit/Credit is just Left/Right.



Maybe this will help...

The Accounting Equation:

Assets - Liabilities = Equity

(let's make all terms 'positive')

Assets = Liabilities + Equity

(now, we'll split off a subset of Equity)

Assets = Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings

(now, we'll substitute temporary accounts for Retained Earnings)

Assets = Liabilities + Equity + (Income - Expenses)

(now, we'll once again, make all terms 'positive')

Assets + Expenses = Liabilities + Equity + Income


And there, you have the full Accounting Equation with the five major 
account types that GnuCash uses.


-

In double-entry accounting, ALL transactions are in the form of:

Debit = Credit

Left = Right


The 'Debit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Debit 
balance, and increase with a Debit, decrease with a Credit) are on the 
left of the equation:


Assets
Expenses

The 'Credit' accounts (those that are normally (positive) a Credit 
balance, and increase with a Credit, decrease with a Debit) are those on 
the right of the equation:


Liabilities
Equity
Income

A negative balance in any account would indicate either an entry error 
or a contra-balance situation. (rare for individuals)


-
You can move funds from the left to the right, or vice versa, or between 
any accounts or types on the same side of the equation. (I will use the 
abbreviations Dr. and Cr. here)


Most texts will write transactions Debit first, then Credit as shown 
below. The amounts are not shown, because they *must* be equal.



Example Left to Right - Asset to Liability (paying down a debt)

Dr. Liabilities:Loan
  Cr. Assets:Cash

result: decreased Loan owed, decreased Cash on hand, Assets decreased, 
Liabilities decreased - equation still in balance




Example Right to Left - Income to Asset (receipt of income)

Dr. Assets:Cash
  Cr. Income:Salary

result: increased Cash on hand, increased Salary earned, Assets 
increased, Income increased - equation still in balance




Example Left to Left(same type) - Asset to Asset (buying land outright)

Dr. Assets:Land
  Cr. Assets:Cash

result: increased Land owned, decreased Cash on hand, Assets shifted - 
equation still in balance




Example Left to Left(different type) - Asset to Expense (buying groceries)

Dr. Expenses:Food
  Cr. Assets:Cash

result: increased Food expense, decreased Cash on hand, Expenses 
increased, Assets decreased - equation still in balance




Example Right to Right(same type) - Liability to Liability (paying down 
a loan with a credit card)


Dr. Liabilities:Loan
  Cr. Liabilities:Credit Card

result: decreased Loan owed, increased Credit Card owed, Liabilities 
shifted - equation still in balance




Example Right to Right(different type) - Equity to Liability 
(recognition of dividends to be paid - business transaction)


Dr. Equity:Retained Earnings
  Cr. Liabilities:Dividends Payable

result: decreased Retained Earnings, increased Dividends owed to 
shareholders, Equity decreased, Liability increased - equation remains 
in balance.




*it is rare and unusualy for an individual to shift Equity to 
Liabilities and vice versa. Forgiveness of Debt may in some 
jurisdictions be a transfer from Liabilities to Income.



Regards,
Adrien

On 10/20/23 12:02 AM, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:

I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.


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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Adrien Monteleone]

On 10/21/23 11:38 AM, R Losey wrote:

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 11:57 AM Michael or Penny Novack <
stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:


On 10/20/2023 11:47 AM, Edwin Booth wrote:

Thank you Michael. The ancient history of these terms is really
interesting. I don’t really “get it” yet but I see the idea here. Very
hard to set aside the use of credit and debit in the modern sense and
use them in a very different way. Counter intuitive.


Not exactly. The confusion over "modern sense" is something else. Thus
when R. Losey says:

"It*IS*  hard because the accounting use of debit/credit is different from
the common or colloquial usage of the words. In everyday usage, people tend
to use "debit" as a synonym for "decrease" and "credit" to mean "increase",
and that is NOT the case in accounting, as the tutorials helpfully
explain."

 No, the confusion is NOT because accounting use is different but
confusion over whose books are you looking at. We are sued to seeing
these "in reverse" on statements we from from the bank for our bank
accounts or credit card accounts because on those it is from THEIR point
of view, not ours.



I disagree; I've heard people in non-financial situations use "debit" to
mean "decrease" and "credit" for "increase"; such as "His recent actions
have credited his stock of goodwill "  or "he owes me; I have a huge credit
balance with him".


The key phrase is 'with him', which means 'in his books' thus from 'his' 
perspective your 'account' has a credit.


But in *your* books, that same account would have a debit.

It IS a matter of perspective. The terms have consistent meanings.


But this is starting to get away from GnuCash.


It is more accounting than 'how to do it in GnuCash' but we get this 
question often enough, it is worth addressing.


Regards,
Adrien

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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[James Thomas]

It may be because I have a lot of experience and training in accounting,
but it seems to me that using different terms depending on the account just
adds to the confusion. To me, using just "debit" and "credit" is a lot
easier - but one must understand three accounting basics:

1. that every account belongs in one of 5 different groups,
2. that, depending upon which "group" the account is in, it will normally
have either a debit or credit balance,.and
3. that the sum of debits minus credits in each transaction must equal zero
- without exception.

*Grouping*  *"normal balance"*

Assets  debit
Liabilities  credit
Income credit
Expense   debit
Equity   credit (but note that, if the business has been
incurring more expenses than revenue, the Equity balance will be abnormal -
a debit)

A "normal" posting to any account increases its "normal" balance. So an
increase to an asset account (checking, savings, investments, Accounts
Receivable, etc) would be a debit as would an increase to any expense
account.

However, any increase to a liability account's "normal"  balance (credit
card, loan) would be a credit as would any increase to an Income account.

This explains the confusion over whether credit means "increase" or
"decrease". *It means neither* in accounting terms. Whether a credit
increases or decreases an account depends on what type of account it is
(i.e. which "grouping" the account is in).

So, some ordinary entries for those of us just keeping track of home
finances would include:

  *debit
(dr)credit (cr)*

*paid for groceries w/credit (increases both balances):*

Visa card
50
groceries expense   50

*paid credit card from checking acct (decreases both balances)*

checking acct
  25
Visa card  25

*got my paycheck (increases both)*

checking acct  600
Income
 600


*Balances (all normal)*

Checking  575
Visa
 25
Income
600
Expense 50

Total *625*
  *625*

*Businesses "close books" at the end of the year (income and expenses are
set to zero by making "abnormal" entries in the amount of their year-end
balances). *
*Assets and liabilities are not "closed" but retain their balances.*

Income   600
Expense
50
Equity
550


Hope this helps - or at least doesn't add to the confusion :(


Jim Thomas

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 12:39 PM R Losey  wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 11:57 AM Michael or Penny Novack <
> stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > On 10/20/2023 11:47 AM, Edwin Booth wrote:
> > > Thank you Michael. The ancient history of these terms is really
> > > interesting. I don’t really “get it” yet but I see the idea here. Very
> > > hard to set aside the use of credit and debit in the modern sense and
> > > use them in a very different way. Counter intuitive.
> >
> > Not exactly. The confusion over "modern sense" is something else. Thus
> > when R. Losey says:
> >
> > "It*IS*  hard because the accounting use of debit/credit is different
> from
> > the common or colloquial usage of the words. In everyday usage, people
> tend
> > to use "debit" as a synonym for "decrease" and "credit" to mean
> "increase",
> > and that is NOT the case in accounting, as the tutorials helpfully
> > explain."
> >
> >  No, the confusion is NOT because accounting use is different but
> > confusion over whose books are you looking at. We are sued to seeing
> > these "in reverse" on statements we from from the bank for our bank
> > accounts or credit card accounts because on those it is from THEIR point
> > of view, not ours.
> >
>
> I disagree; I've heard people in non-financial situations use "debit" to
> mean "decrease" and "credit" for "increase"; such as "His recent actions
> have credited his stock of goodwill "  or "he owes me; I have a huge credit
> balance with him".
>
> But this is starting to get away from GnuCash.
>
> _
> Richard Losey
> rlo...@gmail.com
> Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[R Losey]

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 11:57 AM Michael or Penny Novack <
stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On 10/20/2023 11:47 AM, Edwin Booth wrote:
> > Thank you Michael. The ancient history of these terms is really
> > interesting. I don’t really “get it” yet but I see the idea here. Very
> > hard to set aside the use of credit and debit in the modern sense and
> > use them in a very different way. Counter intuitive.
>
> Not exactly. The confusion over "modern sense" is something else. Thus
> when R. Losey says:
>
> "It*IS*  hard because the accounting use of debit/credit is different from
> the common or colloquial usage of the words. In everyday usage, people tend
> to use "debit" as a synonym for "decrease" and "credit" to mean "increase",
> and that is NOT the case in accounting, as the tutorials helpfully
> explain."
>
>  No, the confusion is NOT because accounting use is different but
> confusion over whose books are you looking at. We are sued to seeing
> these "in reverse" on statements we from from the bank for our bank
> accounts or credit card accounts because on those it is from THEIR point
> of view, not ours.
>

I disagree; I've heard people in non-financial situations use "debit" to
mean "decrease" and "credit" for "increase"; such as "His recent actions
have credited his stock of goodwill "  or "he owes me; I have a huge credit
balance with him".

But this is starting to get away from GnuCash.

_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[R Losey]

This is what I have done, and it's been helpful to me.

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 3:14 PM Fross, Michael  wrote:

> A help to me was to turn off 'Use Formal Accounting Labels" in the settings
> when I started (and have never enabled that.)  I feel it is much easier to
> understand for non-accounting people.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 12:53 PM Mark via gnucash-user <
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
>
> > Oct 20, 2023 09:06:46 Michael or Penny Novack <
> stepbystepf...@comcast.net
> > >:
> >
> > > That might not be of much help (understanding the terms "debit" and
> > "credit")
> > >
> > > History might, …
> >
> >
> > My point was that you don't *have* to learn all that before GnuCash will
> > be useful to you. The history *is* helpful to understand the terms fully,
> > but to start using GnuCash, you can start with learning how to enter
> where
> > the money comes from and where it goes, and learn more as you need it.
> > ___
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> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)]

On 2023-10-21 08:58, Edwin Booth via gnucash-user wrote:
> Thanks again to all! But here’s a simple question that I need the answer to 
> so I may start entering expenses. I have set up an account hierarchy tree and 
> now I want to assign expense accounts to specific transactions that I made 
> with my credit cards. But I wish to add some accounts to the basic list. I 
> can’t figure out how to do that. 

It strikes me that you're trying to use GnuCash without first reading
the documentation. That's like trying to run before you can walk. Others
have already made the suggestion, but maybe you missed their messages.

I know there's a lot of documentation. But start with section "I. The
Basic Knowledge" in the Tutorial and Concepts Guide at


The answer to your question is in that chapter.

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Stan Brown (using GC 4.14)]

On 2023-10-20 18:35, David Cousens wrote:
> I disagree however that the non-accounting terminology should be the default.
> The non-accounting terminology is often not precise in its meaning whereas 
> once
> you have understood the definitions, the meaning of the accounting terminology
> and its use is well defined.  Accounting is a well documented commercial
> practice and the double entry system is core to its operation and GnuCash is
> primarily accounting software, not general financial software although it 
> does a
> very good job for small operations and can be adapted to that use. 

Very well stated!  I agree wholeheartedly.


Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com/
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Re: [GNC] I need basic help

[Edwin Booth via gnucash-user]

Thanks again to all! But here’s a simple question that I need the answer to so 
I may start entering expenses. I have set up an account hierarchy tree and now 
I want to assign expense accounts to specific transactions that I made with my 
credit cards. But I wish to add some accounts to the basic list. I can’t figure 
out how to do that. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, October 20, 2023, 8:35 PM, David Cousens  
wrote:


I do agree with the comments in your previous post that the concept of
transactions needs to be explained before or at least in parallel to  concept of
accounts. I rewrote a fair bit of the basics section of the guide when I was
fresh out of an accounting master's which might account for its more technical
bias.  I haven't revisited the guide much since then but I will take another
look at it. It is always a compromise between producing a full scale textbook
and brevity that someone will actually read.

Some other accounting software does indeed hide the details of the debit/credit
and the accounting equation and double entry from users. I am a convert from
software that did that and because that basis was hidden it made understanding
the accounts more difficult than it should, particularly during the setup phase
of a business. Add to that my highly paid accountant (one of big 4) was not
particularly useful. That can be useful for a lot of routine data entry, however
it is the edge cases that often require a deeper understanding of the basis of
double entry accounting.

I disagree however that the non-accounting terminology should be the default.
The non-accounting terminology is often not precise in its meaning whereas once
you have understood the definitions, the meaning of the accounting terminology
and its use is well defined.  Accounting is a well documented commercial
practice and the double entry system is core to its operation and GnuCash is
primarily accounting software, not general financial software although it does a
very good job for small operations and can be adapted to that use. 

It is also an excellent educational tool for formal accounting. I used it as
such while doing amaster's and it produced basic reports which conformed well
with what was expected for formal accounting reports.

David Cousens


On Sat, 2023-10-21 at 09:48 +1100, flywire wrote:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-October/109184.html
> Edwin Booth wrote:
> > I need to wrap my head around the whole “debit/credit” concept.
> 
> No you don't but you do need to understand the concept of account types and
> moving money between them. I've studied economics at Uni, evaluated endless
> projects, used a range of accounting software, and worked with
> accountants and bookkeepers without being aware of how credit and debit is
> defined in accounting. I rarely used the terms, and most people that
> understood them would realise the common understanding is wrong and use the
> terms in a general sense or avoid them.
> 
> It's a pretty meaningless discussion commercial projects avoid to reduce
> confusion. The user documentation would be clearer with simple language:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2023-May/106929.html
> 
> Regards
> 
> > 
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