Re: [GNC] Reconciliation error - how should I correct?

2023-02-02 Thread R Losey
Yep; when I worked in a bank, we were always having to call people around
the beginning of the year to check with them.

I remember that we once did find a very old check; if memory serves (it was
a LONG time ago), they were on checks in the 1300s, and the old check was
from the 100s... and it was years out of date. I think we called the
customer to check before we processed it.


On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 12:39 AM  wrote:

> On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 12:13:52 -0600
> R Losey  wrote:
>
> > Thanks; I used to work in a bank, and I thought there was a policy
> > such as you described... however, I did check with the bank, and they
> > indicated that they would honor the check regardless of how old it
> > was.  They seem to be angling for me to pay them $$$ to stop payment
> > on the check, which I'm refusing to do.
>
> Different jurisdictions, different rules
> In AU, there is a time of 15 months and after that the cheque is stale.
> It used to be 12, but back in the olden days when people used cheques,
> there would always be havoc at the beginning of new year when people
> wrote the old year instead.
>
> Cheque usage in AU, 2019
> https://www.rba.gov.au/speeches/2019/images/sp-gov-2019-12-10-graph07.gif
>
> For the bored, the legislation is the Cheques Act, 1986
> https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2017C00074
>
>
> Liz
> ___
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Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] Reconciliation error - how should I correct?

2023-02-02 Thread R Losey
Yes; she doesn't want to bother to look; she's not sure if she destroyed it
or not. If she would just say one way or the other, it would help.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 12:29 PM Phyllis Bruce  wrote:

> Wouldn't it just be simpler to ask your sister in law to destroy the check
> if she finds it?  Then write it off/delete it.
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 12:14 PM R Losey  wrote:
>
>> Thanks; I used to work in a bank, and I thought there was a policy such as
>> you described... however, I did check with the bank, and they indicated
>> that they would honor the check regardless of how old it was.  They seem
>> to
>> be angling for me to pay them $$$ to stop payment on the check, which I'm
>> refusing to do.
>>
>> Given their attitude, I'm considering closing the checking account, and
>> then opening a new one, so that the check would bounce if ever presented.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 2:50 PM Michael or Penny Novack <
>> stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > ... regardless of date.
>> >
>> > > I sent a check to a sister-in-law that she probably won't cash, but
>> she
>> > > cannot remember what she did with it... so, years later, it is still
>> an
>> >
>> > Uh no, not outstanding indefinitely.
>> >
>> > This of course is not really a gnucash question but since this question
>> > affects reconciliation...
>> >
>> > By the UCC rules, after six months a bank does not have to accept a
>> > check and as a result checks that have not been =returned to your
>> > account by that time might be voided in your books. You might want to
>> > allow a bit more time than that just to be on the safe side and you
>> > should keep in mind that banks are allowed to process checks older than
>> > that so CHECK THE POLICY OF YOUR BANK.
>> >
>> > If I had the problem of a long outstanding check, I'd enter a
>> > transaction to void it once it was more than six months old.
>> >
>> > Michael D Novack
>> >
>> >
>> > PS -- You might sometimes see on a check you receive, "void after 90
>> > days". AFAIK that has no legal standing and the UCC rule of 180 days
>> > would apply.
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > gnucash-user mailing list
>> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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>> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
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>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> _
>> Richard Losey
>> rlo...@gmail.com
>> Micah 6:8
>> ___
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>

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Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] Reconciliation error - how should I correct?

2023-01-31 Thread edodd
On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 12:13:52 -0600
R Losey  wrote:

> Thanks; I used to work in a bank, and I thought there was a policy
> such as you described... however, I did check with the bank, and they
> indicated that they would honor the check regardless of how old it
> was.  They seem to be angling for me to pay them $$$ to stop payment
> on the check, which I'm refusing to do.

Different jurisdictions, different rules
In AU, there is a time of 15 months and after that the cheque is stale.
It used to be 12, but back in the olden days when people used cheques,
there would always be havoc at the beginning of new year when people
wrote the old year instead.

Cheque usage in AU, 2019
https://www.rba.gov.au/speeches/2019/images/sp-gov-2019-12-10-graph07.gif

For the bored, the legislation is the Cheques Act, 1986
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2017C00074


Liz
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Re: [GNC] Reconciliation error - how should I correct?

2023-01-31 Thread Phyllis Bruce
Welcome to the world of tracking your dollars!

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 1:50 PM Dr. David Kirkby <
drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 16:41, Phyllis Bruce  wrote:
>
>> Dr. Kirby,
>>
>> I'm praying your problem is getting away from paper reconciliation.
>> Remember how we used to turn the page over and list the items NOT on the
>> bank statements?
>
>
> No, because I have never before attempted reconciling a bank account. My
> process in the past has always been one of scanning the bank statement to
> see if anything looked suspicious, rather than actually checking if it was
> right. 
>
> I spotted when a company set up a scam direct debit for £4, but to be
> honest if a transaction to a regular supplier like RS Components was £100
> too high, I would most likely not noticed.
>
> Dave
> --
> Dr. David Kirkby,
> Kirkby Microwave Ltd,
> drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk
> https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
> Telephone 01621-680100./ +44 1621 680100
>
> Registered in England & Wales, company number 08914892.
> Registered office:
> Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT,
> United Kingdom
>
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Re: [GNC] Reconciliation error - how should I correct?

2023-01-31 Thread Phyllis Bruce
Wouldn't it just be simpler to ask your sister in law to destroy the check
if she finds it?  Then write it off/delete it.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 12:14 PM R Losey  wrote:

> Thanks; I used to work in a bank, and I thought there was a policy such as
> you described... however, I did check with the bank, and they indicated
> that they would honor the check regardless of how old it was.  They seem to
> be angling for me to pay them $$$ to stop payment on the check, which I'm
> refusing to do.
>
> Given their attitude, I'm considering closing the checking account, and
> then opening a new one, so that the check would bounce if ever presented.
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 2:50 PM Michael or Penny Novack <
> stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > ... regardless of date.
> >
> > > I sent a check to a sister-in-law that she probably won't cash, but she
> > > cannot remember what she did with it... so, years later, it is still an
> >
> > Uh no, not outstanding indefinitely.
> >
> > This of course is not really a gnucash question but since this question
> > affects reconciliation...
> >
> > By the UCC rules, after six months a bank does not have to accept a
> > check and as a result checks that have not been =returned to your
> > account by that time might be voided in your books. You might want to
> > allow a bit more time than that just to be on the safe side and you
> > should keep in mind that banks are allowed to process checks older than
> > that so CHECK THE POLICY OF YOUR BANK.
> >
> > If I had the problem of a long outstanding check, I'd enter a
> > transaction to void it once it was more than six months old.
> >
> > Michael D Novack
> >
> >
> > PS -- You might sometimes see on a check you receive, "void after 90
> > days". AFAIK that has no legal standing and the UCC rule of 180 days
> > would apply.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > -
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> >
>
>
> --
> _
> Richard Losey
> rlo...@gmail.com
> Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] Reconciliation error - how should I correct?

2023-01-31 Thread R Losey
I agree that the statement is misleading... all it is trying to say is that
if you reconcile a balance to $1000 and then add a transaction before the
reconciliation date, the  balance will change... (that is, if you add a $50
check, the balance will be $950 now instead of the $1000 you used.

For me, this is useless, as I do not reconcile my GnuCash account balance
to the bank account balance; for years (longer than I have used GnuCash), I
have reconciled the bank balance to my GnuCash balance. I have found it a
much easier way.

There is no problem with adding transactions prior to the reconciliation
date, as long as they are un-reconciled transactions (and that is the
default).

There are potential problems when altering a reconciled transaction... I
had horrible problems with this is Quicken, but GnuCash seems to deal with
such cases better.


On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 3:34 AM Dr. David Kirkby <
drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 19:46, R Losey  wrote:
>
>> Normally, people 'reconcile' their records to the financial institution,
>> marking the ones on which they agree as 'reconciled'.
>>
>> If everything went right, the accounts should balance, leaving the
>> transactions that the bank doesn't know about... regardless of date.
>>
>
> I was probably interpreting this
>
> https://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/txns-reconcile1.html
>
> incorrectly, where it says
>
> “
> Warning
>
> It is important to understand that reconciliation is done for a given
> date, and when you reconcile an account based on a statement from a given
> date, you are reconciling *all transactions prior to that date*.
> Therefore, if you add or modify transactions that predate your last
> reconciliation, your *reconciled* balances will be thrown off.”
>
> As far as I am aware, the transaction took place  in June. So to add the
> entry to GnuCash I needed to add a transaction that occurred prior to the
> last reconciliation.
>
> I note that bit of the documentation starts cvs. Google found me that, but
> I think the latest documentation doesn’t say quite the same thing.
>
> Dave
> --
> Dr. David Kirkby,
> Kirkby Microwave Ltd,
> drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk
> https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
> Telephone 01621-680100./ +44 1621 680100
>
> Registered in England & Wales, company number 08914892.
> Registered office:
> Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT,
> United Kingdom
>


-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] Reconciliation error - how should I correct?

2023-01-31 Thread Dr. David Kirkby
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 16:41, Phyllis Bruce  wrote:

> Dr. Kirby,
>
> I'm praying your problem is getting away from paper reconciliation.
> Remember how we used to turn the page over and list the items NOT on the
> bank statements?


No, because I have never before attempted reconciling a bank account. My
process in the past has always been one of scanning the bank statement to
see if anything looked suspicious, rather than actually checking if it was
right. 

I spotted when a company set up a scam direct debit for £4, but to be
honest if a transaction to a regular supplier like RS Components was £100
too high, I would most likely not noticed.

Dave
-- 
Dr. David Kirkby,
Kirkby Microwave Ltd,
drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk
https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Telephone 01621-680100./ +44 1621 680100

Registered in England & Wales, company number 08914892.
Registered office:
Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT, United
Kingdom
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Re: [GNC] Reconciliation error - how should I correct?

2023-01-31 Thread R Losey
Thanks; I used to work in a bank, and I thought there was a policy such as
you described... however, I did check with the bank, and they indicated
that they would honor the check regardless of how old it was.  They seem to
be angling for me to pay them $$$ to stop payment on the check, which I'm
refusing to do.

Given their attitude, I'm considering closing the checking account, and
then opening a new one, so that the check would bounce if ever presented.


On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 2:50 PM Michael or Penny Novack <
stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:

>
> ... regardless of date.
>
> > I sent a check to a sister-in-law that she probably won't cash, but she
> > cannot remember what she did with it... so, years later, it is still an
>
> Uh no, not outstanding indefinitely.
>
> This of course is not really a gnucash question but since this question
> affects reconciliation...
>
> By the UCC rules, after six months a bank does not have to accept a
> check and as a result checks that have not been =returned to your
> account by that time might be voided in your books. You might want to
> allow a bit more time than that just to be on the safe side and you
> should keep in mind that banks are allowed to process checks older than
> that so CHECK THE POLICY OF YOUR BANK.
>
> If I had the problem of a long outstanding check, I'd enter a
> transaction to void it once it was more than six months old.
>
> Michael D Novack
>
>
> PS -- You might sometimes see on a check you receive, "void after 90
> days". AFAIK that has no legal standing and the UCC rule of 180 days
> would apply.
>
>
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>


-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] Reconciliation error - how should I correct?

2023-01-31 Thread Dr. David Kirkby
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 19:46, R Losey  wrote:

> Normally, people 'reconcile' their records to the financial institution,
> marking the ones on which they agree as 'reconciled'.
>
> If everything went right, the accounts should balance, leaving the
> transactions that the bank doesn't know about... regardless of date.
>

I was probably interpreting this

https://cvs.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/txns-reconcile1.html

incorrectly, where it says

“
Warning

It is important to understand that reconciliation is done for a given date,
and when you reconcile an account based on a statement from a given date,
you are reconciling *all transactions prior to that date*. Therefore, if
you add or modify transactions that predate your last reconciliation, your
*reconciled* balances will be thrown off.”

As far as I am aware, the transaction took place  in June. So to add the
entry to GnuCash I needed to add a transaction that occurred prior to the
last reconciliation.

I note that bit of the documentation starts cvs. Google found me that, but
I think the latest documentation doesn’t say quite the same thing.

Dave
-- 
Dr. David Kirkby,
Kirkby Microwave Ltd,
drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk
https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Telephone 01621-680100./ +44 1621 680100

Registered in England & Wales, company number 08914892.
Registered office:
Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT, United
Kingdom
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Re: [GNC] Reconciliation error - how should I correct?

2023-01-30 Thread Adrien Monteleone

Reconciliation verifies that:

Opening Balance
+
*listed* transactions
=
Ending Balance

That is all.

Sometimes, banks don't clear transactions in the same period they were 
submitted. It appears in this case, it cleared an entire period late. 
You were able to reconcile June & July because the bank didn't think it 
existed yet either, till August.


If you or they *did* have the transaction in your respective books, then 
you either could not have reconciled without an adjustement, or you'd 
still have that transaction as pending and not yet cleared. In this 
case, you just need to add it and it will reconcile in August, because 
that is when it cleared the bank. (you can still enter it as the 
original effective date if that is what you want)


Regards,
Adrien

On 1/30/23 5:28 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:


I was under the impression that the reconciliation should record all
transactions up to the date one reconciles.  Clearly one had been missed,
so I thought that was an error. But from what you say it is not.


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Re: [GNC] Reconciliation error - how should I correct?

2023-01-30 Thread Michael or Penny Novack



... regardless of date.


I sent a check to a sister-in-law that she probably won't cash, but she
cannot remember what she did with it... so, years later, it is still an


Uh no, not outstanding indefinitely.

This of course is not really a gnucash question but since this question 
affects reconciliation...


By the UCC rules, after six months a bank does not have to accept a 
check and as a result checks that have not been =returned to your 
account by that time might be voided in your books. You might want to 
allow a bit more time than that just to be on the safe side and you 
should keep in mind that banks are allowed to process checks older than 
that so CHECK THE POLICY OF YOUR BANK.


If I had the problem of a long outstanding check, I'd enter a 
transaction to void it once it was more than six months old.


Michael D Novack


PS -- You might sometimes see on a check you receive, "void after 90 
days". AFAIK that has no legal standing and the UCC rule of 180 days 
would apply.



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Re: [GNC] Reconciliation error - how should I correct?

2023-01-30 Thread R Losey
Normally, people 'reconcile' their records to the financial institution,
marking the ones on which they agree as 'reconciled'.

If everything went right, the accounts should balance, leaving the
transactions that the bank doesn't know about... regardless of date.

I sent a check to a sister-in-law that she probably won't cash, but she
cannot remember what she did with it... so, years later, it is still an
unreconciled item every time I balance the account.


On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 5:29 AM Dr. David Kirkby <
drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 03:49, Jim DeLaHunt  wrote:
>
> > On 2023-01-29 17:34, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
> >
> > > I've reconciled my bank account until the end of July 2022, but then
> > found
> > > a bill from a vendor which was paid from the bank account in August,
> but
> > > the transaction occurred in June. So really I want to create a bill in
> > > June.
> >
> > In what sense is this a "reconciliation error"?
>
>
> I was under the impression that the reconciliation should record all
> transactions up to the date one reconciles.  Clearly one had been missed,
> so I thought that was an error. But from what you say it is not.
>
> The amount is correct, so I'll just add the transaction in. That's a bit of
> a relief.
>
> I must say, I am impressed with the software and the support. I have found
> a few bugs, but once reported they get fixed.
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_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] Reconciliation error - how should I correct?

2023-01-30 Thread Phyllis Bruce
Dr. Kirby,

I'm praying your problem is getting away from paper reconciliation.
Remember how we used to turn the page over and list the items NOT on the
bank statements?  Gnu does that automatically.  You reconcile to your bank
statement so that the difference on your reconciliation screen shows a $0
difference.  It is VERY common to have outstanding checks.

HTH further, Po

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 9:31 AM Stephen 
wrote:

> Presumably you are on a cash basis. If not then stop reading here. If on
> a cash basis then you (your bank) paid the bill in August, regardless of
> when you received the bill. Why do you say the transaction occurred in
> June? Maybe the work was done/goods were delivered, etc. but the bill
> was paid in August. Enter the bill payment on the date it was paid and
> reconcile your account with your August bank statement per usual
> procedures. If you want to you can memo the payment with a note about
> when the work was done (June). You can include invoice # etc etc. Not a
> reconciliation error. Am I missing something?
>
> On 1/30/2023 5:28 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
> > On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 03:49, Jim DeLaHunt 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2023-01-29 17:34, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've reconciled my bank account until the end of July 2022, but then
> >> found
> >>> a bill from a vendor which was paid from the bank account in August,
> but
> >>> the transaction occurred in June. So really I want to create a bill in
> >>> June.
> >> In what sense is this a "reconciliation error"?
> >
> > I was under the impression that the reconciliation should record all
> > transactions up to the date one reconciles.  Clearly one had been missed,
> > so I thought that was an error. But from what you say it is not.
> >
> > The amount is correct, so I'll just add the transaction in. That's a bit
> of
> > a relief.
> >
> > I must say, I am impressed with the software and the support. I have
> found
> > a few bugs, but once reported they get fixed.
> > ___
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Re: [GNC] Reconciliation error - how should I correct?

2023-01-30 Thread Stephen
Presumably you are on a cash basis. If not then stop reading here. If on 
a cash basis then you (your bank) paid the bill in August, regardless of 
when you received the bill. Why do you say the transaction occurred in 
June? Maybe the work was done/goods were delivered, etc. but the bill 
was paid in August. Enter the bill payment on the date it was paid and 
reconcile your account with your August bank statement per usual 
procedures. If you want to you can memo the payment with a note about 
when the work was done (June). You can include invoice # etc etc. Not a 
reconciliation error. Am I missing something?


On 1/30/2023 5:28 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 03:49, Jim DeLaHunt  wrote:


On 2023-01-29 17:34, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:


I've reconciled my bank account until the end of July 2022, but then

found

a bill from a vendor which was paid from the bank account in August, but
the transaction occurred in June. So really I want to create a bill in
June.

In what sense is this a "reconciliation error"?


I was under the impression that the reconciliation should record all
transactions up to the date one reconciles.  Clearly one had been missed,
so I thought that was an error. But from what you say it is not.

The amount is correct, so I'll just add the transaction in. That's a bit of
a relief.

I must say, I am impressed with the software and the support. I have found
a few bugs, but once reported they get fixed.
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Re: [GNC] Reconciliation error - how should I correct?

2023-01-30 Thread Dr. David Kirkby
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 03:49, Jim DeLaHunt  wrote:

> On 2023-01-29 17:34, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
>
> > I've reconciled my bank account until the end of July 2022, but then
> found
> > a bill from a vendor which was paid from the bank account in August, but
> > the transaction occurred in June. So really I want to create a bill in
> > June.
>
> In what sense is this a "reconciliation error"?


I was under the impression that the reconciliation should record all
transactions up to the date one reconciles.  Clearly one had been missed,
so I thought that was an error. But from what you say it is not.

The amount is correct, so I'll just add the transaction in. That's a bit of
a relief.

I must say, I am impressed with the software and the support. I have found
a few bugs, but once reported they get fixed.
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Re: [GNC] Reconciliation error - how should I correct?

2023-01-29 Thread Jim DeLaHunt

On 2023-01-29 17:34, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:


I've reconciled my bank account until the end of July 2022, but then found
a bill from a vendor which was paid from the bank account in August, but
the transaction occurred in June. So really I want to create a bill in
June.


In what sense is this a "reconciliation error"? Reconciliation is the 
process of comparing your records with the bank's records, and dealing 
with any differences. One class of difference is when your records show 
a transaction, but the bank's records do not show that transaction. That 
transaction is left unreconciled. Another class of difference is when 
both your records and the bank's records show a transaction, but the 
details (e.g. the amount) differ. That transaction gets corrected in 
your records, or flagged as a bank error, or something.


In this case it looks like your records omitted a transaction from June, 
and you just now see it in the bank's records from August. Have you 
reconciled your records with the bank's records from August yet? If so, 
you should have noticed the transaction in the bank's records. If you 
have not yet reconciled with the bank's records from August, then now is 
the time to correct the discrepancy.



…What's the best way out of this?
First, validate that the bill is valid, that the vendor did issue it, 
and that it was correct to pay it. If any of those are not true, start a 
dispute about the error. If they are true, then create a bill in your 
records dated in June, and record that it was paid from your bank 
account in August. You got two month's worth of float. Congratulations.


Dr David Kirkby Ph.D
Email: drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk Web:
https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Kirkby Microwave Ltd (Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100)
Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT.

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