Re: [Goanet]Re: Manuel Antonio de Sousa
- Original Message - From: Teotonio R. de Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Goa Research Net [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 9:43 AM Subject: [Goanet]Re: Manuel Antonio de Sousa Dear Jorge, Capela's books are published by Edicoes Afrontamento, in Porto. But I buy them in Lisbon without difficulty. He does give the date I indicated, and which is different from 1904 as given by Clement Vaz. Dear Dr. Teotonio, Thank you for the above information. I have now read Jose Capela's book Donas, Senhoras e Escravos which indeed says on page 155 that Manuel Antonio de Sousa (MAS), honorary colonel of the (Portuguese) overseas army and comendador of the Order of Aviz, was killed while attacking Missongue in DEcember 1891. So, while there is no doubt that he was born in Mapusa (Bardez, Goa) in 1835, Capela places his death in December 1891 while Clement Vaz tells us that he met bravely, like a true hero, his death on the battle ground in 1904 (in Profiles of Eminent Goans Past and Present [New Dlhi, 1997] - page 105). Now, there is yet another date of his death (January 20, 1892) and, apparently, not like a true hero. I have a two-volume book titled História de Moçambique by René Pélissier (Portuguese translation of the original French - Editorial Estampa, Lisboa, 1994) which gives an account of MAS's death on pages 78/80 of volume II. On pages 79/80 he says: «Quando ... a 18 de Janeiro de 1892 se pôs a caminho contra a aringa principal, de Inhachirondo/Missongue, ainda chovia. Dois dias depois, a 20 de Janeiro de 1892, estava defronte de Inhachirondo, que atacou a tiro de canhão, mas os Baruístas bateram-se rijamente; eram ajudados por um mercenário branco, um norte-americano chamado George Taylor, que começava a desempenhar no Barué um papel suspeito, usando, além disso,a mesma táctica que Manuel António de Sousa (casamentos nas famílias reinantes). ... Manuel António de Sousa ficou ferido e, ao ver isto, os seus chicundas desertaram do campo de batalha. ... O fim de Manuel António de Sousa foi tão miserável e tão incerto como extraordinária fora a sua existência. A versão espacial e temporalmente mais próxima pretende que, para fugir às azagaias, ele se tenha embrenhado no capim, abandonado por todos. Um garoto tê-lo-ia morto em vez de arriscar-se a levá-lo vivo para Inhachirondo/Missongue e vê-lo vingar-se do seu insignificante guardião com alguma habilidade de feitiçaria. Seja como for quanto à materialidade dos factos, no dia 20 de Janeiro de 1892 desapareceu, pois, este chamejante goês que fizera tremer a Zambézia durante mais de trinta anos, que conquistara um império para Portugal, que estivera associado a Paiva de Andrada e que, mais feliz que ele nesse plano, não assistira à subida da influência britânica no território da Companhia de Moçambique. Irremediavelmente classificado na infra-humanidade pelos Britânicos vitorianos, este Indian half-caste, que de resto era um verdugo feroz para os Africanos que tinham a pouca sorte de resistir-lhe, pertencia já, em 1892, a um mundo perimido: o de Bonga». In a footnote the author says: «A tradição do Barué pretende que ele foi morto pelo próprio Canga. Outra versão diz que ele foi ferido por dois dos seus capitães, Magaço e Bastião, e que morreu sob tortura». Jorge ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
[Goanet-news]23 JAN 2004: GOACOM DAILY NEWS CLIPPINGS
GOACOM DAILY NEWS CLIPPINGS 23 January 2004 PEOPLE-ORIENTED STATE BUDGET EXPECTED: The State Budget for 2004-2005 is expected to be people-oriented with no burden on the general public. While replying to a query Chief Minister Manohar Parrikar stated yesterday (Jan 22), he would ensure that people would get worth for their money. I have managed in the past to increase revenue of the State without increasing the burden of taxes, he said. (GT) RELAX CRZ, NOISE REGULATIONS: Chief Minister Manohar Parrikar has impressed upon the Centre to give some relaxation to Goa on coastal regulation zone and noise pollution it being a tourist State. Stating that there cannot be a uniform law on such matters throughout the country, Parrikar said that in a tourist State like Goa, the coastal regulations framed years ago need to be looked up again. He made a strong case for demarcating some zones along the 105-km coastline where planned and regulated development could be permitted. (H) COPS SEAL KALPAVRIKSHA OFFICES: The Economics Offences Cell at the Goa Police headquarters on January 21 sealed the remaining offices of Kalpavriksha Marketing Pvt Ltd in Goa and seized some vital documents, official said. The company has duped over 45,000 investors in the state to the tune of Rs.10 crore. (NT) KTC MODIFIES VRS: Following poor response to the voluntary retirement scheme, the Kadamba Transport Corporation Limited has now modified the entire scheme so as to prune the workforce. The modified VRS envisages the proposal to employ wards of the retiring employees who will, however, be not entitled for any additional benefits. (GT) STABBED IN BAINA: Bargaining with a commercial sex worker proved costly for a 23-year-old tourist (Hanumanta S Karigal) from Belgaum, when he was stabbed on Jan 22 in the red-light area in Baina. (H) CENTRE AGREES TO PAY 15% HRA: The Centre has agreed in principle to the proposal of paying 15 per cent House Rent Allowance to Central government employees in Goa, on par with the State Government employees here. Presently the Central government employees are paid 7.5 per cent of HRA. (GT) FM TURNS 10: All India Radio, Panjim's FM channel is completing 10 years of broadcast on January 24. Great programmes that were broadcast by FM channel over the years will be aired again for the benefit of countless listeners. (H) GOVT SUPPORT FOR EXPOSITION SOUGHT: Governor Kidar Nath Sahani has expressed his desire that the State government should extend all help to the Archdiocese of Goa and Daman for the Exposition of the sacred relics of St Francis Xavier, which will take place this year. Archbishop-Patriarch Raul Gonsalves informed that he had communicated the matter with the Governor, who in turn had also written a letter to the Chief Secretary in this regard. (H) A LIBRARY WITH 12,430 BOOKS, GARDEN: From a library of 12,430 books to a mini-botanical garden, a centre to promote Konkani language and culture is working to build its resources in this field and grow, from its base at Alto-Porvorim. Thomas Stephens Konknni Kendr, the Porvorim-based research institute, has announced that it has come out with a set of four compact discs to observe Konknni Osmitai (Konkani identity). (H) GOODBYE, BANASTARIM BRIDGE: A part of history is being dismantled at Banastarim to be re-laid in remote Sattari to serve as a link for a few isolated hamlets. Goa State Infrastructure Development Corpn which has been entrusted with the task of relocating the 128-metre long Banastarim bridge, which is one of the oldest structural bridges in Goa, has started its work recently. While the steel bridge with six spans of varying lengths was built in 1927-29, it bore the burden of the large traffic during the post-Liberation period, even after it was blasted by the Portuguese forces to prevent the Indian military from crossing it during Operation Vijay in 1961. (GT) PUBLIC BUILDINGS TO BE MADE DISABLED-FRIENDLY: The State government has proposed to introduce 'barrier free' norms into the building bylaws so as to provide persons with special needs and disabilities, easy access to public buildings. As such public buildings like cinema halls, educational institutions including the university, hospitals, etc. would have to undergo modifications to provide easy access for the disabled. (H) VASCO MAN VANISHES: The Goa police is likely to hand over the inquiry into the alleged kidney transplant through forged papers, to the Deputy Superintendent of Police. The Police for the last two days tried in vain to trace the complainant Ankush Amonkar at his Vasco residence. It was found that the entire family had shifted to an unknown destination. (GT) ALL ROADS LEAD TO MAPUSA'S APARANT MAAND: Bodgeshwar Temple grounds at Mapusa is getting anew look as it gears up for the Aparant Maand 2004 exhibition-cum-sale starting from today. The three-day exhibition will be inaugurated by Chief Minister Manohar Parrikar at 4.30 pm. The exhibition is expected to
[Goanet]23 JAN 2004: GOACOM DAILY NEWS CLIPPINGS
GOACOM DAILY NEWS CLIPPINGS 23 January 2004 PEOPLE-ORIENTED STATE BUDGET EXPECTED: The State Budget for 2004-2005 is expected to be people-oriented with no burden on the general public. While replying to a query Chief Minister Manohar Parrikar stated yesterday (Jan 22), he would ensure that people would get worth for their money. I have managed in the past to increase revenue of the State without increasing the burden of taxes, he said. (GT) RELAX CRZ, NOISE REGULATIONS: Chief Minister Manohar Parrikar has impressed upon the Centre to give some relaxation to Goa on coastal regulation zone and noise pollution it being a tourist State. Stating that there cannot be a uniform law on such matters throughout the country, Parrikar said that in a tourist State like Goa, the coastal regulations framed years ago need to be looked up again. He made a strong case for demarcating some zones along the 105-km coastline where planned and regulated development could be permitted. (H) COPS SEAL KALPAVRIKSHA OFFICES: The Economics Offences Cell at the Goa Police headquarters on January 21 sealed the remaining offices of Kalpavriksha Marketing Pvt Ltd in Goa and seized some vital documents, official said. The company has duped over 45,000 investors in the state to the tune of Rs.10 crore. (NT) KTC MODIFIES VRS: Following poor response to the voluntary retirement scheme, the Kadamba Transport Corporation Limited has now modified the entire scheme so as to prune the workforce. The modified VRS envisages the proposal to employ wards of the retiring employees who will, however, be not entitled for any additional benefits. (GT) STABBED IN BAINA: Bargaining with a commercial sex worker proved costly for a 23-year-old tourist (Hanumanta S Karigal) from Belgaum, when he was stabbed on Jan 22 in the red-light area in Baina. (H) CENTRE AGREES TO PAY 15% HRA: The Centre has agreed in principle to the proposal of paying 15 per cent House Rent Allowance to Central government employees in Goa, on par with the State Government employees here. Presently the Central government employees are paid 7.5 per cent of HRA. (GT) FM TURNS 10: All India Radio, Panjim's FM channel is completing 10 years of broadcast on January 24. Great programmes that were broadcast by FM channel over the years will be aired again for the benefit of countless listeners. (H) GOVT SUPPORT FOR EXPOSITION SOUGHT: Governor Kidar Nath Sahani has expressed his desire that the State government should extend all help to the Archdiocese of Goa and Daman for the Exposition of the sacred relics of St Francis Xavier, which will take place this year. Archbishop-Patriarch Raul Gonsalves informed that he had communicated the matter with the Governor, who in turn had also written a letter to the Chief Secretary in this regard. (H) A LIBRARY WITH 12,430 BOOKS, GARDEN: From a library of 12,430 books to a mini-botanical garden, a centre to promote Konkani language and culture is working to build its resources in this field and grow, from its base at Alto-Porvorim. Thomas Stephens Konknni Kendr, the Porvorim-based research institute, has announced that it has come out with a set of four compact discs to observe Konknni Osmitai (Konkani identity). (H) GOODBYE, BANASTARIM BRIDGE: A part of history is being dismantled at Banastarim to be re-laid in remote Sattari to serve as a link for a few isolated hamlets. Goa State Infrastructure Development Corpn which has been entrusted with the task of relocating the 128-metre long Banastarim bridge, which is one of the oldest structural bridges in Goa, has started its work recently. While the steel bridge with six spans of varying lengths was built in 1927-29, it bore the burden of the large traffic during the post-Liberation period, even after it was blasted by the Portuguese forces to prevent the Indian military from crossing it during Operation Vijay in 1961. (GT) PUBLIC BUILDINGS TO BE MADE DISABLED-FRIENDLY: The State government has proposed to introduce 'barrier free' norms into the building bylaws so as to provide persons with special needs and disabilities, easy access to public buildings. As such public buildings like cinema halls, educational institutions including the university, hospitals, etc. would have to undergo modifications to provide easy access for the disabled. (H) VASCO MAN VANISHES: The Goa police is likely to hand over the inquiry into the alleged kidney transplant through forged papers, to the Deputy Superintendent of Police. The Police for the last two days tried in vain to trace the complainant Ankush Amonkar at his Vasco residence. It was found that the entire family had shifted to an unknown destination. (GT) ALL ROADS LEAD TO MAPUSA'S APARANT MAAND: Bodgeshwar Temple grounds at Mapusa is getting anew look as it gears up for the Aparant Maand 2004 exhibition-cum-sale starting from today. The three-day exhibition will be inaugurated by Chief Minister Manohar Parrikar at 4.30 pm. The exhibition is expected to
Re: [Goanet]FREE Trip to Anjediva/Karwar with/without Navy's permission.
--- Joegoa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Our last chance to show our support (to save the church/Monument). All RELIGION WELCOME. WITH permission: Straight to the Island (+see without). WITHOUT : Up to karwar, Binaga beach (where island can be viewed from a distant), karwar church... and may be on our way back- stop at palolem beach). Dear Joe and all on this trip, I doubt whether Navy bureaucrats mean any harm but they don't appreciate history, architecture, etc. Have you tried contacting someone higher up, or the CM's of Karnataka or Goa? Some advance planning is needed to get the wheels turning for such matters. My best wishes, Filomena __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
RE: [Goanet]Rickshaw (TUK TUK) Goan Voice
Never heard tuk tuk in India. Have travelled extensively. In Manila, the Philipines, yes. AT From: Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Goanet]Rickshaw (TUK TUK) Goan Voice Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 18:28:06 - 21 Jan. Stroud News Journal. Janet and Brian Bowkett, loved their Goa holiday so much that they bought back a brand new motorised rickshaw - or tuk-tuk as they are known in India - as a memento of their trip. It cost them £4,000. See : http://www.thisisstroud.com/stroud/news/NEWS10.html Question: I always thought that Tuk Tuk was the name given to the rickshaw in Bangkok. Can any Goa resident tell me if Rickshaws as called Tuk Tuk in India as well? _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
[Goanet]Re: Manuel Antonio de Sousa
Dear Jorge, I am sorry I did not see your MAS-II before earlier response. Who promoted the 1935 commemoration? Any ideia who was Paulo Nazario Pinto? Why did he write in Konkani? I wish the pedestal of the Mapusa statue had a Konkani poem on it? I have come to know of a *Esboço biographico de Manuel Antonio de Sousa (no Author mentioned), published at Rangel Press of Bastora in 1905, pp. 32, with a portrait of MAS in military uniform. I have just received the scanned image file of it. I wonder if it corresponds with the one you mention of 1935 publication. Teotonio R. de Souza --- Jorge de Abreu Noronha wrote: Lourenço Marques, 1935». From this Homenagem book I reproduce a poem in Konkani by Paulo Nazário Pinto, on top of which there is a portrait of MAS in military costume: ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re: [Goanet]22 JAN 2004: GOACOM DAILY NEWS CLIPPINGS
From Joel D'Souza's [EMAIL PROTECTED] GOACOM DAILY NEWS CLIPPINGS - 22 January 2004 NEW BRIDGE FOR PANAJI: A new two-lane parallel Patto bridge, three pedestrian subways, a vehicular underpass and a mini-bridge on piles, are some of the proposed projects which are expected to decongest traffic in the capital city in view of hosting the International Film Festival of India in December 2004.Renowned architect Charles Correa visited the Kala Academy complex last week and is working on the alternative proposal of constructing a mega auditorium at Darya Sangam, near the riverfront. He will also assess the possibility of expanding the Dinanath Mangeshkar Kala Mandir, it is learnt. (GT) Could Joel, Cecil or anybody else clarify what Darya Sangam is? I had never heard or read of a place or locality named thus. I guess it is part of Campal, a stretch by the river front in Panjim, and that the expression (nothing to do with Cecil's business!) is in Marathi or Hindi; and I imagine that Darya actually stands for the Konkani word Dorya (= Sea). If so, shouldn't it have been Nhoim or Nodi which means River in amchi bhas? And what is Sangam? Shouldn't river front be nhoim fuddo or nodi fuddo in Goa's language? Jorge ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
[Goanet]Excerpt from the Daily Telegraph. Re. SFX. (Goan Voice latest)
17 Jan. The Daily Telegraph. (London). Perhaps the finest example of baroque architecture in India is the Basilica of Bom Jesus, in Goa. The church is the resting place for the remains of the 16th-century saint, Francis Xavier, who was credited with sundry miracles including raising the dead. His body was brought to Goa almost 150 [sic] years after his death, a gift from Cosimo III de' Medici, the Grand Duke of Tuscany. The feast of St Francis Xavier, celebrated on December 3, attracts thousands of pilgrims. However, many hold that the saint initiated the 16th-century inquisitions, resulting in the destruction of Hindu temples and infidels being burned alive. Cheers, Gabe Menezes. ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re: [Goanet]Re: Fr. Roger Lesser, Xavier, and Bl. Joseph Vaz
By no means Filomena I find the (our) efforts for expediting the canonization process of our fellow Goans at all hurried in any way. frenetic was not my exprssion. However, we may place our frustration over the delay in a reasonable prospective. That the process of Bl Jose Vaz has been very much delayed is true. However, it is hardly unique. Others, sthalwarts of the Church have been kept waiting far longer. Noteworthy, among them loom: Jesuit Peter Canisio, contemporary of St Ignatius, one of the greatest theologians to combat Lutheranism, died 21 December 1597. Cd 1925. Thomas More and John Fisher: Both defied Henry Vlll so heroically, were martyred 1535; cd 1935. John Britto, Jesuit, martyred in Madura, Madras, 1693; Cd 1947 There are examples galore, very many, both famous and undistinguished who were elevated to the honour of the altar couple of centuries and more after death, even martyrdom. Examination of hagiography makes for most interesting reading. I find it helps me out of depression. Look up Saits' Index thru google. But to really get the grit one has to go back to Bede, the Golden Legend, so on. Frenzy aside, local cultus has played a highly significant role in prodding Vatican in case of many saints being canonized far earlier than they may otherwise have been. But there is no point in laying charges of official Portuguese intervention to the detriment of Bl. Vaz or other sinister motives encompassing politics, race, caste ... There has certainly been nepotism; both, the Medicii and Borgias got their candidates through high-handedly and they have, for better or worse, endured. So have meddled, quite successfully crowned heads and other sources of patronage in promoting respective candidates. But, I think in our case local pressure will help best. Even frenzy, though certainly making poor self-effacing Bl. José Vaz discomfort in his celestial surroundings, may help far more than indiference. Alfred de Tavares, Stockholm, 2004-01-22 On the fast lane, the record is held by Santo António de Lisboa e Padva: died June 13, 1231; cd end May, 1232, less than a year post mortem. Also there are those that were declared saint without due enquiry only to be stepped down. From: Filomena Giese [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Goanet]Re: Fr. Roger Lesser, Xavier, and Bl. Joseph Vaz Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 15:31:29 -0800 (PST) --- Alfred de Tavares [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My dear Cornel, \ The frenetic hurry manifested is hardly their (the saints') fault or desire. Subject: Re: [Goanet]Re: Fr. Roger Lesser, Xavier, and Bl. Joseph Vaz Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 13:09:05 - I am puzzled by the recent frenetic rush for saints in the posts. Do we need If efforts to get action on the Cause of a Goan Saint that has been going on just short of 300 years are frenetic, would Alfred and Cornel care to tell us how long the usual, more acceptable, Goan susegad is? Filomena _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re: [Goanet]Re: Alfred's acronym's
- Original Message - From: Bosco D'Mello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 4:16 AM Subject: [Goanet]Re: Alfred's acronym's Hi Alfred, Who was GBS and what was the O.P. campaign ?? Thanks - Bosco GBS = George Bernard Shaw. O.P. = Opinion Poll. Am I correct, Alfred? Jorge ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re:[Goanet]deaths in goa
While your request for info sounds genuine, it could help if you specified what publications you report for. Least the deaths are used in dodgy sensationalised headlines in some downmarket rag, giving Goa bad publicity! Francis From: Tariq Siddiqui [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 12:21:26 -0800 (PST) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Goanet]deaths in goa --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To Joel D'Souza, I am a freelance reporter in London, UK and I have read on your web news page about the deaths of five nationals in Arambol, Goa. The latest was a British guy, Nigel Wills, aged 50 on January 6th. Do you have any information about this? do you know if he was working/holidaying or living in Goa, what he did for a living and whether he was married, had a partner or children. I have spoken to the Foreign Office in London and they have spoken to the British Consular in Goa and confirm his death. They claim it was natural causes but I have heard that all five deaths might have been drug related and the result of the deceased using a dodgy batch of heroin which is being peddled on the island. Which island? -Tariq Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly...Ping your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re: [Goanet]nothing against Sainthood issues
Colleagues, It is becoming a bit difficult to be clear about who said what in an increasingly convoluted set of posts. However, I am at a total loss to understand how anyone could possibly arrive at a view that I was seeking censorship on the issue of saints. Indeed I am not, don't say so, and have never believed in censorship. In my related posts on the theme in question, all I wanted was a broadening of the theme or leaving it aside for a while as it seemed to have got into a rut, and was going nowhere while there were so many other issues which could be discussed as others have suggested. As an aside and as a challenge, I was hoping there would be some informed take on do we need saints and what for?. I therefore would dearly welcome some knowledgeable comment on this aspect of my question at least, and on the specific concept of sainthood as distinguishable from saints. The cliché that there is always a button to switch off discussion, is now worn incredibly thin and become vacuous. Surely, on Goanet, we are all capable of a much better approach, through more persuasive, sophisticated, informed, in-depth discussion than the lightweight populist notion of censorship which gets thrown in from time to time. Cornel ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re: [Goanet]stop this sainthood get on with Goan issues
From: mel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Goanet]stop this sainthood get on with Goan issues Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 11:51:10 +0530 I totally agree with you Vasu!! Mel - Original Message - From: Vasu Raekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 1:46 PM Subject: [Goanet]stop this sainthood get on with Goan issues Dear Goans, These are some of active hard core Goans who have the balls to differentiate from wrong I personally think we should all go hand in gloves with these gentlemen and support them. Fumigate the govt/adm of official detritii by all means but, pray, why this misogynous attitude in carrying out the task. There are tough and effective Goan ladies very much worthy of the task: Filomena, Flower/Diana, Viviana and several others consistently voice relevant, sensible critiques of ongoing mess, and there are legion silent ones. Even Margret M, though she is dementedly awry about properties pertaining feni, can be formidable. Is it just that they lack the anatomy you allude to earlier in your missive? Beware, for sometimes that hung baggage can be impediment, being all that gentlemen possess. Alfred de Tavares how the Goa Govt reacts to the outbreak of Jaundice and Sars case during a recent visit of Film Festival representatives. _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
[Goanet]----------------- KUWAITCHEM GOENKAR----------------
mhaka chod kotin bogtam kim him ek don utram boroupak pollelam team pormonnem aiz kuwaitcheam xarant zaitem konkknim mogim anik tiatrist asat tech porim heruim gulfgavant zaitem goenkar tiatrist asat punn sangpachem mhollear zem tiatrist kuwait asat toslem tiatrist her gulfant nat. kuwait tiatrist asat tem zaun asat pota zallanchem nam tor chintun polleiat. kuwait xarant aiz zaitem goenchem tiatrist asat anik tanka bab A.V. Fernandes rostad mhunnta anik mhaka hem sot dista. karan aiz kuwait zaitem konnknnim programm zatat punn tatun zaitem politics astam heam porim:- 1- to aslear hanv asonam. 2- xim to kitem borem acting kortam? 3- boro director mhunntat punn hindi filma kopy martat. 4- vod director punn vokol chor amcheam goenkarancheam modem mat punn munisponn nam. kuwait lokank koxeal korunk anik noveam noveam burgeank voir soronk mhahan utordekaranim one act play competion suru kelem punn taka sarkim rit dourunk nam anik mhaka dista kim heam vorsak kitem zatolem poim tem tancheam competetionachem. they are keeping the jurdges those who doesnt know the proper konkannim. last year they kept some jurdges and one of them from bombay who can sing konkannim song but cannot make konkannim jurdgement. Punn kiteim zaum Utordekar ekdom borem munis tannim punn torim noveam burgeank vhoir soronk ek novim sondhim dilim heam gavant. punn sot sangpachem mhollear tacheam kim vod sondi dilim noveam burgeank vhoir soronk bab Veronican anim Fidelisan. utordekarancheam uprant tannim ek novim singing anik one act play conpetion suru korun zaiteam noveam burgeanim vantto getlo anik aplim umed bhagoilim. tanka DEv boro korun munntam. now to tell frankly there is no proper unity in konkannim lovers as day by day theye making new new groups and after two days breaking. that means its shows our mentality and unity.why dont we try to make our unity like other indians in kuwait? Milferdfes. _ Contact brides grooms FREE! http://www.shaadi.com/ptnr.php?ptnr=hmltag Only on www.shaadi.com. Register now! ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
Re: [Goanet]Re: Fr. Roger Lesser, Xavier, and Bl. Joseph Vaz
Filomena, My two questions were why the frenetic rush for saints in the post i.e. the current post, and do we need any and what for? What prompted these questions, with some tongue in cheek, was my feeling that it was time to move on to other issues on goanet to prevent people getting switched off. Sainthood is not a concept and cause about which I personally can get excited about. Nevertheless, I do respect those for whom it is very important, provided it is not presented as self evident and endlessly rammed down our throats. Cornel - Original Message - From: Filomena Giese [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [Goanet]Re: Fr. Roger Lesser, Xavier, and Bl. Joseph Vaz ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
[Goanet]GOA, WESTERNISATION, MUSIC:
Dr. Jose Pereira has made important contributions to Konkani and Goa studies. however, I do feel that total attention is being paid to western aspects to the detriment of our own. I have rarely or never hear a discussion on Konkani ovi/ovyo. it had to take a foreigner Fr. Thomas Stevens to appreciate the beauty of this metrical form and who composed his Kristapurana in the ovi metre. it is in Marathi, but was known among goan christians until atleast 1880. the time of Gerson Da Cunha's 'Konkani'. the ovi is a prakrit metre. the best known work is the Jnaneshwari of around 1295 AD. the work was edited by Sant Eknath, a contemporary of Fr. Thomas Stevens. I believe the influence of the Jnaneshwari shows up in the Kristapurana. agnelo Message: 8 From: Joel D'Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 09:25:06 +0530 Subject: [Goanet]21 JAN 2004: GOACOM DAILY NEWS CLIPPINGS Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GOA, WESTERNISATION, MUSIC: Homophony, dominant in Europe (and in Goa), from the 16 to the 19th centuries, is a single melody, supported only by chordal accompaniment. Harmonized Goan songs, initially represented by the Goan hymns, seems not to precede the 18th century. At the start, the main promoter of Western music appears to have been the Flemish Jesuit Gaspar Barzeus/Barzeus (1515-1555), who imported the music of the Flemish and French Renaissance dominant in the Europe of his time. (Dr Jose Pereira in Herald) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
[Goanet]CHITTIK SARKO ZABAB
Bab Domnic, Tumcho pot'to sodun kadunk hanvem kainch trass geunk nat. lokanchim tondam konnacheanuch bondh korunk zainat karan jibek hadd nam. Dekun tim massachi jib kaichem kai uloitam anik hem tumim bhess borem zannat. Zaiteam lokanim mhozem boroup pollelolem punn team vixim konnakuch tank nam zalim tachem voir kiteim punn borounk. LOKANCHIM TONDAM BONDH tiatr kup lokanim pollelo punn team kothe vorvim konnakuch kainch gomlem nam anik konnech tacher thika legun marunk nam karam tiatr polleupi soglem hizdde. Oxem mhollear hanv chukot? Vo soglem lailoleam toklechem? Hindi filmachi nakal marun tiatr boroupak sogleankuch daddos asa chodd korun Pascoal Rodrigues. Punn, tosleam boroupeank anik directorank (Bor/Dir) mhunnonat. Tumcheam boroupa udexim saf gomon eta kim tumim kup huxear asat. Laurent tor copy marun tiatr boroita, sot anik zoruim tor marunk xekonam zalear taka magir Pascoal boroin dita hatun kosloch dubav nam heam vixim tumchem mot kitem? , tannem copy kela korem anik etlech nhoi atam sap gomon ailem kim tim kotha taka Pascoalin dilolim. Tum legun borim borim hindi filma copy marun tiatr boroi lokanchean kainch korunk zainam. Punn, ek mat zannam zaum Lokanchim tondam bondh korunk zainat nam tor poi meza velem kelle kadun sagvad zodlim anik magir kitem zalem? Anik kitem meulem? Munxeak marop anik taka fondant gallop anik magir tacheam othmeak rozar korop ho nheai koslo? To babbdo zienk sodtalo punn taka marun matiek lailo anik ata tacheam othmeak rozar kortat? Dev voir ravon hem soglem polletam. Punn, hanv othmeak rozar korchonam karann hanv hizddem jivit jienam. Tum kiteak MAFI MAGTAM anik kiteak? Ho tuzo KOSLO NHEAI? Herderi zaun aslolo gov, vo bail? saddsuddo darant ubo. Meza velem kelle kadun sagvad zoddlim anik ruch soglim vanvon geli. Zannam zaum kharveank nhium gorva anik rakhnneank nhuim tarvam. Hanvem aikoiloleam pormonnem, mhaka distalem kim tum ek boro zannar zait mhunn punn, nam zait godiem mhojim somzut chukleam zait. Udkacho ek bud' budo vodlo motto zata punn to kitloi motto zaum buddbuddo to buddbuddo ekach khinnat funttom kobar zatam. Hanvem zem kitem, boroup boroilolem Lokanchim Tondha Bondh tem tuzeam sarkem lokxeant eunk nam. Vho zait kaim tuka hacheam voir sarko niall kelolo naka! Mhaka dista kim tem hindi film tumim polleunk nam (YEH ZINDAGI KA SAFAR) nam tor tum tuzem kiteim punn mot boroupacho vho nam tor mhaka dista kim tum godiem bieta astolo?. Karan zaitem lok chudtecheam sorpak bietai.Dista mhaka oxench zaunk zaim nam tor tumim kimti vellachim kobour borouchem naslolem. Kiteim borem korchem aslear munis kimti vellachim porvam korinam. Eka bomadeam sarkem jivit jieloleam poros chod borem hatak kankknam galun boulolem. Toxench anik mhaka tumim boroilam kim kitnem door kitne pass albot sot punn tumim chitat kim app jitnam pass hoke bhi az bahut door haim. Iskem bhare mhei apko sab kuch malum haim. Tuvem ek natkulem kelolem khoi anik tem legun dusrean boroilolem. Zalear sang mhaka tuvem kiteak hindi filamachim copy marun natkulem korunk nam? Dusreanim boroilolem korim pasun??. Hanvem jem kitem boroilolem tem tuka fott dislem nhoi. Zor tuvem tem film pollet tor tuka sarkem gomtolem. Axeam aslim mhaka tumkam mellonk punn, nam atam anik amim mellonk naka. Dev boro korum. Laurentin copy marun tiatr dakoun poixem kelem nanv zodla mhunn maka koslich adkoll nam. Punn tumi ek ritem aidon geun gazoitat hem vichitr. chintun paul marat fuddem. tumcho.. milaferdes. _ Add glamour to your desktop. Let your screen sizzle. http://server1.msn.co.in/msnchannels/Entertainment/wallpaperhome.asp Download the hottest wallpapers. ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
[Goanet]FREE Trip to Anjediva/Karwar with/without Navy's permission.
Our last chance to show our support (to save the church/Monument). All RELIGION WELCOME. WITH permission: Straight to the Island (+see without). WITHOUT : Up to karwar, Binaga beach (where island can be viewed from a distant), karwar church... and may be on our way back- stop at palolem beach). Proposed timings/route: 60 seater bus (75 with standing),2nd Feb., leaves Panaji 8am via Bambolim, Pilar, Cortalim, Verna, Nuvem, Margao, Canancona. Back by 6pm? All I need a good response (at least 75 peope/booking after making provisions for last minute opt outs). Last date to register 30/01/04 (Will confirm on 31st). As said, so far only 28 people shown interest perhaps others are confused due to requirement of Navy's permission. Please pass on the message to others too and lets make it a success. Its really a genuine (and generous) offer and is for a good cause. YOU ALL ARE INVITED. Thanks, Joe Book: By Txt 9822161766 By email: [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED] = Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly...Ping your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
[Goanet]nothing against Sainthood issues
Filomena wrote: I second Teotonio's view that there's a pluarility of views out there on various topics, and none should or can be excluded on an open forum like Goanet. Are you, Cornel, and others who object to the saint discussion proposing some kind of censorship? Failing censorship, there is always the delete button - you don't have to read every post that comes on Goanet. That way, you all can have the freedom to discuss the topics that please you, and we can discuss the ones that we know something about. Gilbert writes: I fully support Teotonio and Filomena's posts. It is a pity that Vasu, Cornel and other Goans do not see the value of discussing Goa's history which is having an effect in Goa and in India even today. The animosities between various ethnic groups are frankly because of ignorance. If you followed our posts, we are educating ourselves even after we have read and have taken an interest in Goa's history. You may think that we are getting under each other's skin (and perhaps we are). But as we defend our long held positions, in the end we may be saying, we should not be so dogmatic about our views and judge the past so harshly. This is better than being ignorant of history. Hope the next time you celebrate the feast of SFX, you will better understand the challenges he faced and admire Goencho Saib even more. Gilbert Baba Gilbert, Bai Filu ani Senhor Dom Teo, I am absolutely not against issues of Sainthood or for that matter the Bibles, amgeli Bhagawat Geeta or the Holy Quran (PBUH) It is a fact that we too are learning from your dogmatic discussions. It is also true that netters involved in any sort of forum gain knowledge on several issues. However as Bai Filu has suggested anything which is of no interest to anyone can be simply deleted by single butao. My only concern was that we should consider being more constructive on Building Goa. Making the place safe grounds to breathe, safe to live, priority to Goans, create employment opportunities (increase per capita income, GDP) focus against legalising of illegal lands and properties, free of existing hidden agendas. I again wish to reiterate that I have nothing against articles related to sainthood or any such matters. As one of the tourist mentioned here if developers continue to build matchbox buildings and hotels int he name of comercailization and tourism, I think that will be the end of tourism industry. As for Goencho Saib, I understand the exposition is this year and am already putting together a small batch of Tourist from here whom I will be as a guide through out their week long stay in Goa. I've already put his history to be narrated under my belt. I had requested Suzanne to air out her grievances on this net including copy to Goa Tourism Board, BTA and other valid sites. Some how we missed to see my post here on Goanet. Vasu To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Bosco - Goanet Volunteer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2004 11:10:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Goanet]bad experience in Goa Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 05:11:36 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Sir, I have just returned back from a holiday in Goa and had a very bad experience with the tour operator and hotel proprietor. Please could you let me know of any organisation in Goa where I could address these issues. I have already contacted the necessary associations in the UK but feel I would like to point out to officials in Goa my bad experience and hope nobody else would share a similar fate of substandard conditions and exploitation. Kind Regards, Suzanne Fernandes Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly...Ping your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
[Goanet]Armchair Investigation for Beginners
Sarah Rest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on GoaNet. - quote - To Joel D'Souza, I am a freelance reporter in London, UK and I have read on your web news page about the deaths of five nationals in Arambol, Goa=2E The latest was a British guy, Nigel Wills, aged 50 on January 6th=2E Do you have any information about this? do you know if he was working/holidaying or living in Goa, what he did for a living and whether he was married, had a partner or children=2E I have spoken to the Foreign Office in London and they have spoken to the British Consular in Goa and confirm his death=2E They claim it was natural causes but I have heard that all five deaths might have been drug related and the result of the deceased using a dodgy batch of heroin which is being peddled on the island=2E Do you know if there is any truth in this=2E I would be really grateful if you could let me know of any information you have about the deaths, particularly the Brit=2E Please email me or call - after 3pm Goa time as we are about five hours behind - on 0044 (0) 207 613 2548=2E Thank you in advance for your co-operation, Sarah Rest Dear Ms. Rest, I appreciate your concern for these seemingly unnatural deaths. Your investigative reporting skills too are to be admired. Sending off a request for detailed information to a Goa Related Discussion Group is sure to get you to the heart of the matter and Joel will have all the answers for you in seconds. You need not worry about these smaller details of getting authentic first hand information from reliable sources. Just see that you have your Book Rights and subsequent Movie Rights properly lined up once we give you the insides of this scoop. Since Joel is unavailable right now I am replying on his behalf. Firstly, on behalf of the Goa Tourism Department, I would like to apologise to you and your countrymen (and women) for allowing 'dodgy heroin' to be sold on 'the island'. We will try and ensure that only good quality heroin is sold in future. Our regrets on this oversight. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. Please do not take your business to Kerala. Also thanks for informing us that you are about 5 hours behind Indian Standard Time. We would never have known. I will make a few phone calls here in Goa and soon give you the full truth of how all those 'five nationals' died. Irrespective of their nationality. I will also have the entire marital, employment and family details on your desk in the next few minutes. And also a good source for 'non-dodgy' high quality heroin. Should I send you the information directly or route it through the 'British Consular' in Goa? Could you specify again which 'island' it was that you were referring to? Cecil Pinto Ex-Reporter for The Daily Son and Mirage www.page3.com = ## # Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED] # # PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts # # More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ # # Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others # ##
