[Goanet] Alignment of North-South expressway
I have heard from a friend of mine who stays near Colva that the alignment of the expressway is between the railway line and the coast. Is there anyone on the list who can confirm it? Also, if anyone knowledgeable about the traffic, environment, etc., may also wish to comment. Sachin Phadte ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Cause of War, Confict and Violence
Hi Aristo Many thanks for letting us know what prompted your question on Conflict and Wars. After my quick reply, I began to feel that the reasons were greater than I had imagined but that immediate my response was better than none to your important question that affects us all. It struck me that there was another reason later alluded to by Elizabeth. A feeling of insecurity must feature strongly even though this can be exploited by some like the Israelis to their very great advantage. Would I feel insecure if I were an Iranian surrounded by nuclear powers? You bet I would. I'd want the bomb badly and especially because the West has absolute double standards on bomb possession. The West has never stopped arming itself to the teeth whilst asking all others to refrain from doing so. Ideally, because I cannot want any country to have deadly nuclear weapons per se, I'd like all powers to work towards multilateral disarmament on nuclear weapons initially and then reduce other horrendous weapons gradually. Unfortunately, the West has set a bad example on this issue notwithstanding attempts to reduce weaponry by some world leaders. Regan and Gorbachev come to mind. Moreover, other nations are now getting to a stage when they can ignore what the West says. I have a different question for you now and wonder if you might reflect on it: Are we able to detect the very first signs of the decline of American economic and political power even though, not yet, her military power? I believe that as with all great powers, a decline sets in eventually. American decline and it being superseded by China, especially in conjunction with India, is foreseeable even if this may take some time. I can see Mario absolutely foaming at the mouth over my heresy above but wonder if the rest of our very sane American friends on Goanet, in particular, and others, might reflect on this question please? My question is not linked to any wish-fulfilment. It merely reflects my observation of what is currently going on economically and politically the world over. Finally, I too have been haunted by the lyrics of Lennon's Imagine but find it difficult to accept the widely accepted view that it is the greatest tune ever written. I am inclined to believe that religion has directly or indirectly been the source of a very great deal of strife in the world. I do not accept the view, invariably presented by believers that, it is not religion that is contributory to strife but man who misreads religion. If this is so, the logic is that if there were no religion, man would not have something to misread/misunderstand and cause so much strife. Regards Cornel - Original Message - From: Aristo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Goanet goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Cause of War, Confict and Violence Aristo enquired: I would like to know what YOU feel is the PRIMARY root-cause of War, Confict and Violence in contemporary society, and how is it in contrast with historical wars. Is it due to: 1) Fundamentalism Bigotry (Religious, Cultural, Racial, Ideological, etc) 2) Greed (for Wealth, Power Authoritarianism, Glory) that is sometimes cleverly disguised as reason # 1 3) Innate violent nature of humans, more often of men. 4) Other Cornel opines: Religious,Cultural, Racial, Ideological rationales are invariably brought into play to get the support of those who may not be interested in conflict and do not want to die in battles/wars which generally benefit the elites at the expense of the lower social orders. I would therefore put your No 2 first, and No 1 second but it is not always so. Elisabeth opines: I think human beings are at the very base of our being very animalistic with a thin veneer of civilisation. As animals, we are territorial and on a constant quest to safe-guard our resources. When you boil down all the religious wars, the cultural wars, the economic wars, it is all about safeguarding what we want to preserve. Mario opines: Would you please see where you can fit the following situation into your ruminations about the causes of war, conflict and violence: http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/05/D8ILUTQ01.html Do you still think Aristo's # 2 supercedes # 1? BTW, could you provide some recent examples of # 2? Hi Cornel, Elisabeth and Mario, Thank you for your responses. Im glad to have got different perspectives - one phisophical, another scientific, and the other, well, Goveian! I personally do believe that contemporary wars and conflicts are being fought on the basis of Fundamentalism Bigotry, but are triggered off by individuals motivated by Greed in some cases. In much the same way Cornel is fearful of Evangelical activities that may cause tension in the near future. Whether the Iraq war was due to reason #1 or #2 is a matter of great contention, judging from previos posts of Mario and others (which we
[Goanet] [JudeSundayReflections] Sunday Reflections - Fifteenth Sunday of the Year
out his disciples to preach the good news. No one is a selfappointed messenger, we are believers sent by God. Secondly, Christianity is not focused on itself, faith is a gift to be shared with others and not kept for oneself. Jesus wanted his disciples to be involved in His mission, he sent them out in twos so that they might help, encourage and support each other. Jesus reminds his disciples that their mission is primarily a spiritual one to preach repentance and the coming of the kingdom. But it was also concerned with physical and mental healing. This shows that Christianity is concerned with peoples spiritual well being and with their physical well-being as well; in other words with the whole person. They were to carry no material things with them to give to the people. Their message must sell itself on its own merits, and had to be accepted principally for spiritual reasons. Jesus reminded his disciples that they are to be witnesses to poverty by their detachment from material things. If their preaching was sometimes rejected, they had to move on. The success of their mission was not tied to their own personal successes or failures. Are we relying on oneself or God? Trust in God Once a knight set out on a long journey. He tried to foresee all the possible problems and dangers he was likely to encounter, and to take precautions against them. He took a sword and a suit of armour in case he met an enemy. He took a jar of ointment to guard against sunburn. He took an axe to chop wood for a fire at night. He took a tent and several blankets. He took pots and pans for cooking. And of course he took a sackful of oats for his horse. Thus heavily laden, he set forth. However, he hadnt gone very far when he came to a rickety old bridge, which straddled a deep gorge. He was only halfway across when the bridge collapsed under him, and he fell into the gorge and got killed.- When Jesus sent out his apostles he urged them to place complete confidence in God and not in things. God would take care of their needs. Flor McCarthy, in 'New Sunday Holy Day Liturgies' By sending his disciples Jesus, while remaining in retreat, looks to the spreading of his messianic influence: sharing his task and destiny, they too are engaged in the prophetic proclamation of the kingdom. It is true that like Amos, a simple herdsman, nothing has prepared them for this mission. But what matters is not the brilliance of their intelligence, the allure of their word, their noble birth. Getting rid of useless baggage and merely human assurances, they must let Christ speak through their mouths, and act through their hands. And no doubt, since the kingdom of God does not satisfy the superficial expectations of men, the success of their mission is not guaranteed; the welcome of the crowds could be half-hearted or ephemeral, or even hostile, That does not hinder them, seized by God, chosen by his Son, the disciples should go forward and proclaim that the kingdom of God is at hand. Glenstal Missal Relying on Him, may I be his witness by my life! Fr. Jude Botelho www.netforlife.net PS. The stories, incidents and anecdotes used in the reflections have been collected over the years from books as well as from sources over the net and from e-mails received. Every effort is made to acknowledge authors whenever possible. If you send in stories or illustrations I would be grateful if you could quote the source as well so that they can be acknowledged if used in these reflections. These reflections are also available on my web site www.netforlife.net Thank you. Fr. Jude Botelhowww.NetForLife.net - Find out what India is talking about on Yahoo! Answers India. So, whats NEW about the NEW Yahoo! Messenger? Find out. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/attachments/20060710/90af09ad/attachment.html ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] On what's good for Goa and Goans
Floriano Lobo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now, take for instance our brush with (some) the Press in Goa. Politics in Goa has, over too long, pampered the press to such an extent that it (press) has forgotten its responsibilities as the FOURTH ESTATE, like the other three, the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. GSRP has taken on itself to remind the press that it too has to conduct itself as the FOURTH ESTATE. Not quite sure whether the politics in Goa has pampered the press but surely, the politicians and powerhouses (industrialists) have successfully controlled and subdued the press/journalists in Goa. Thus, on many fronts, the press is intimidated into pussyfooting on insidious issues plaguing the public. Professional Journalism is a remarkable profession, and honest, ethical and unbiased journalism can blissfully contribute to society. The press can be a driving force and pose a formidable challenge to politicians, while astutely shaping politics in a way to help eradicate some of the malaises facing the public. The press in Goa, as we know, is highly partisan and biased, which often degenerates into shameless lying and blatant propaganda to pander to their masters desires; often depoliticizing the public rather than engaging them. There are scarcely a few newspapers and/or journalists that are not in bed with those who control politics and powerhouses. This has effectively forced the press to accept self-regulation (and selective reporting,) to protect their own interests and ward off any threat from politicians and those in positions of power. Sadly, but invariably, press reporting has often turned into dictation by politicians who have mastered the art to exploit and exert a great deal of control over the press on what gets covered and what does not. Journalists today spend much more time evaluating whether the politicians can successfully spin the public (i.e. through lies and deceit) than they do holding politicians accountable and responsible for their actions. More stories get reported and public concerns voiced via e-media by people like Godfrey Gonsalves and Aires Rodrigues, than some of our Goan journalists who either shy out or cowed down from actively fulfilling their role of factual and responsible reporting. A truly independent journalism requires the journalist to stand outside of partisan institution, intimidation and biases, and assume the perspective of those outside the corridor of power. As a legendary expression elucidates: Journalism should afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted. This is certainly not happening in our Goa State. Verily, responsible journalism is not for the fainthearted! Joe Vaz _ Who will win Bollywoods most coveted IIFA awards? You decide! Cast your vote! http://server1.msn.co.in/sp06/IIFA2006/static/weekend.asp ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] Women buying sex in Goa too!
The subject-line should read: Women *too* buying sex in Goa too! I'm not so sure thought that buying sex necessarily means enjoying it. To me, this is another means of the capitalist society's more-is-better sales pitch; and we know it isn't necessarily true. But it keeps both men and women in their proper position (so to speak) , while those in control of our unfair societies are laughing all the way to the bank. Such thinking even counters the basic economic 'law of diminishing utility'. (Put simplistically, as every student who encountered it in the eleventh standard Economics class of Ms Ferdi at Xaviers would know: if I eat one apple, I get X units of pleasure. If I eat two apples maybe I get 2X units of pleasure. By the time I'm into my third apple, the additional utility from each apple starts declining. By the time I'm into my 20th apple in the same session, I'm getting positive displeasure -- or pain -- from each additional apple eaten Which makes me wonder, doesn't the apple analogy suggest that economics, as we study it today, was thought of in some cold, WASPish country where this fruit is grown?) Men have been buying sex for generations mainly because of their political power, and the fact that it's so disgustingly cheap! When doing some work in the Baina red-light area, I was shocked to realise that a woman could be dehumanised at the price of an inexpensive rice-plate! This is not justifiable, but if the price was a bit more fair, at least the whole equation would be so, so badly skewed. The fact that the bulk of these women were Dalits (from the more deprived segments of the Indian cl-aste hierarchy, also helped to make them so prone to this hazardous and tiresome work.) Linux Torvalds, the Finnish geek who wrote to Linux kernel that became a critical part of the Free Software/Open Source movements, once had this quote. He said, Software is like sex. It's best when it is free. Of course, this was meant to make you think of the inequities of proprietorial software, where the richest man in the world, who is supporting so many philanthrophic activities we are now told, prices software so atrociously high that virtually 90% of the planet is reduced to being pirates. [BTW, do you use software which doesn't violate copyright and EULA rules, do you pay atrociously high prices for your software, or do you use Free-as-in-freedom Software?] But, on the other hand, the issue of free sex has also come a generation away from where it started in the 'sixties. Do ideas like this *really* benefit women? Or is it just a sophisticated justification for giving men what they want anyway? The question really is whether women (all all others lower-down in the pecking order) can get sex on terms which are not detrimental to them. Of course, this is not for me to discuss, but for every individual to decide on herself (or himself). FN PS: In addition to all that is said above, it's not simply a matter of gender alone. There's also the question of which *class* of women you're referring to. Can migrant women from Karnataka also be buying sex in Goa too? Or is it a case like the real estate sector, where Goa is seen a huge building boom, but anyone with even a middle-class job here can scarcely afford to buy a home of his/her own? PPS: BTW, just wondering where did Elisabeth descend from? A politician who reads Goanet in Goa was actually surprise enough to comment to me privately about her posts! As for me, I think she's Goanet's secret weapon to get us all into thinking mode, and we are forced to use our otherwise dormant grey cells instead of just our male aggression and a mix of insulting and meaningless name-calling. On 10/07/06, Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm so glad women are finally enjoying sex as freely and casually as men. It is only the human species that places constraints on sex under the guise of morality. How strange. Cornel, if you're reading this, it was Rousseau who said, man is born free but everywhere he is in chain. I looked it up just for you. Wikipedia will do it everytime ;) -- -- Frederick 'FN' Noronha | Yahoomessenger: fredericknoronha http://fn.goa-india.org| +91(832)2409490 Cell 9822122436 -- 2248 copylefted photos from Goa: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fn-goa/ ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] Goa news for July 11, 2006
Goa News from Yahoo! News and Goanet.org Visit http://www.goanet.org/newslinks.php for the full stories. *** SirLankans Goa flights from October (Gulf Times) SRILANKAN Airlines, the largest foreign carrier operating to India, is adding Goa to its destination in the country from October. http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2item_no=96601version=1template_id=36parent_id=16 *** Tourists head to Goa for monsoon (UPI) GOA, India, July 9 (UPI) -- Tourists and those seeking a relaxing getaway have increasingly been heading to Goa for the Indian monsoon season. The Times of London said vacationing in Goa to witness the spectacular rains is not just for the Bombay elite anymore. http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20060709-020700-4164r *** Deterioration in law and order in Goa: Opposition (New Kerala) Panaji, Jul 10: Opposition in Goa Assembly today said law and order situation in the state was deteriorating and demanded strict action against erring policemen. http://www.newkerala.com/news3.php?action=fullnewsid=20719 *** Need to train sportspersons: Jamir (New Kerala) Panaji, Jul 10: Goa Governor S C Jamir today stressed the need for vision to prepare youths in various sports to attain excellence at national and international levels. http://www.newkerala.com/news3.php?action=fullnewsid=20660 *** Women's body demands revocation of govt decision on alcohol (New Kerala) Panaji, Jul 10: A women's organisation today demanded revocation of the Goa government's decision to sell alcohol outside bars as it is against the interest of women and children. http://www.newkerala.com/news3.php?action=fullnewsid=20720 *** Goa tourism industry opposes amendments to luxury tax structure (New Kerala) Panaji: Tourism industry in Goa has urged the state government to not pass the proposed amendmendts in luxury tax structure on hotels, which envisages a flat 10 per cent levy throughout the year. http://www.newkerala.com/news3.php?action=fullnewsid=20391 *** Goa geared up for the WC final despite Portugal's exit (New Kerala) Panaji, July 9: Despite Portugal's exit from the FIFA World Cup, the spirit refuses to die in Goa with soccer lovers expecting an exciting finals between Italy and France in Berlin tonight. http://www.newkerala.com/news3.php?action=fullnewsid=20189 *** Mopa airport issue to be examined by committee: Rane (New Kerala) Panaji, Jul 10: Goa Chief Minister Pratapsingh Rane today said the feasibility of the proposed international airport project at Mopa in North Goa would be examined by a committee, set up by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. http://www.newkerala.com/news3.php?action=fullnewsid=20722 *** 32 complaints filed against painter M F Hussain in Goa (New Kerala) Panaji, Jul 10: Thirty-two complaints have been filed against noted painter M F Hussain at various police stations in Goa, Chief Minister Pratapsingh Rane today said. http://www.newkerala.com/news3.php?action=fullnewsid=20721 *** Goa monsoon session likely to be stormy (New Kerala) Panaji: The monsoon session of the Goa Assembly beginning today is expected to be stormy as the Opposition Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) had announced that it would corner the government and expose its failure on several fronts. http://www.newkerala.com/news3.php?action=fullnewsid=20302 Compiled by Goanet News Service http://www.goanet.org/newslinks.php ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] On what's good for Goa and Goans
Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Joe, Excellent post! I really enjoyed reading it. It's always perplexed me though whether journalists can be truly objective. Dear Elisabeth: Thanks for your kind words. You make valid observations. But, why would you be perplexed whether journalists can be objective? Journalists are not required to apply the strictest sense of objectivity in a way that a mathematical equation would provide the same answer for a given problem. Rather in journalistic professionalism fairness, truthfulness, balance, impartiality, transparency, accuracy and public accountability are paramount and key elements of responsible reporting. We all have our opinions (and personal biases as well). It would be dangerous, therefore, to construe opinions as facts. Responsible journalism calls for unadulterated reporting, and not pretentiously presenting opinions as facts. Although, there is no absolute guarantee that some of the journalists personal opinions may not creep in the reporting, healthy journalism means leaving personal opinions outand reporting (ground realities) and bare facts as they appear. Joe Vaz _ Spice up your IM conversations. New, colorful and animated emoticons. Get chatting! http://server1.msn.co.in/SP05/emoticons/ ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Talking Photos: A Quiz ? (Your chance to win free stay at countryside, Goa) update/Clarification
A clarification: It seems there is a confusion in understanding 'Crows or Crore ' So, what is Crore (e.g Rs. 2 Crore , Rs. 4 Crores etc etc) Rs.100 thousands = Rs.1 lakh Rs.10 lakhs = Rs.1 million Rs.100 lakhs = Rs.10 millions = Rs.1 crore (or 1 Crow ?) Rs.1000 millions = Rs.100 crore = Rs.1 Billion (also equals to India's population) (Hope I am right here) In UK,when we say a house is worth 200,000 pounds (also = 2 lakhs pounds) Remember, 'Who wants to be a millionaire?' (also = 10 lakhs pounds) The same in Indian version 'Kon Banega Krorepati?' or KBK (which also equals to Rs.100 lakhs or Rs,10 Millions or Rs. 1 crore) An average 4 bed bungalow with total land area say 800sqmtrs in Goa would cost say around Rs.90 lakhs (less than a crore) Hope you will now find it easy to value or re-value my estate. = Hi thanks to every one. -So far got about 13 feed backs, ..and the competetion/offer is still open View Joe's Simple but Goan bungalow here http://www.flickr.com/photos/joegoauk4/178985034/ So, here is my personal Toilet (mini office?) http://flickr.com/photos/joegoauk4/181469267/ And here is the modern Indian low level toilet. http://flickr.com/photos/joegoauk4/181469269/ Now the quiz: How many crows of rupees you think Joe's bungalow is worth ?? Hint1: Work out at current market rate (land was purchased 3 years ago) Hint2: Choose one from the possible five answers given below: Is it ..? AA http://www.flickr.com/photos/joegoauk4/179002842/ BB http://www.flickr.com/photos/joegoauk4/179002843/ CC http://www.flickr.com/photos/joegoauk4/179002844/ DD http://www.flickr.com/photos/joegoauk4/179002845/ EE http://www.flickr.com/photos/joegoauk4/179002846/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] for Goa NRI related info... http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/GOAN-NRI/ Konkani Songs, Goan Photos, Tiatr/Film VCDs, Bank interest rates etc etc (for updates etc click below) http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/GOAN-NRI/files/ ___ All new Yahoo! Mail The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use. - PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Go-Suraj and migrant voting rights/response to Fred
Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Come election time, parties from across the board go around slums and barter votes for water and electricity connections, etc. This is no different from buying votes by promising sundry favours to special interest groups, persons or communities. Infact, there is even a coercive element to this situation, that is an implied threat that if votes are not forthcoming, their plight could become considerably worse. These labourers are mere pawns in Goan elections. This is not representative government. Elizabeth, It's one man, one vote :-) Unless of course, you want to follow the old S. African model. During the last elections in India, we had people here on Goanet saying that they were not going to bother voting as their choices were hopeless. Turns out that the less educated went out and voted in mass. As a result, we now have Congress running India again. Mervyn3.0 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Floriano's Sunday Ramblings-10 and -Vivek's response
- Original Message - From: Vivek [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: goanet@goanet.org Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 9:26 PM Subject: [Goanet] Floriano's sunday rambling Foriano says: And come to think of it, it is not surprising that some ex-pat Goans have taken it on themselves to lecture us at Goa Su-Raj on the need of a 'national party' to rule us in Goa. Whatever happened to the regional pride, I wonder! Vivek: If the reference is to my comments earlier i would like to coment some more: Floriano: I must admit that the reference is right and you are most welcom. Vivek: The idea that a regional party with a state centric agenda will benefit the state has been debunked in the past. If history is any indicator almost all regional outfits have started out with lofty principles and have degenerated into dynastic corrupt regimes pandering to chauvinist aspirations of their constituents. Regional pride has never helped anyone! Floriano: That is according to you. You may hold whatever opinion you want. But according to me you are blatantly wrong. If your opinion is the right one than why don't Punjabis call themselves just Indians? Likewise Sindhis, Gujaratis, Maharashtrians. Bengalis, Goans etc. Let us call ourselves Indians like Japanenese call themselves Japanese... Lofty ideals??? Comunidades is lofty ideals? Good Governance sans graft is lofty ideals? These are not lofty ideals but practical ideals, ideals that we all live with, eat and breathe. Those who pander to chauvinist aspirations are political con-men. And you should be smart enough to identify them. Don't put everyone in the same basket. Vivek: Frederick was correct in saying that one must appeal to all sections of society in order to be politically acceptable. One can not just aspire to win power and rule solely based on a set of principles , however ideal those may be. Floriano: First off, Frederick must know who he is addressing these standard sentences to. I have told him to read our Road Map first and then make his comments, if he is talking about Goa Su-Raj. Standard lines just to make one's point fluid, do not apply to Goa Su-Raj because we have seen to it that we have eliminated all biases and differences between classes of Goan people and have made Goa Su-Raj fully and universally representative of Goa and Goans. One cannot just aspire to win power and rule solely based on a set of principles?? Do you yourself know what you are talking about?? Principles, for your kind information, are Principles. There are no these principles and those principles.There are no ' superior' principles and 'inferior' principles. There are no 'good' and 'bad' principles. If you want to argue, do your homework well. I read each and every word that is being said. Vivek: As far as the Portuguese punishments go, does Floriano believe it was ok for the Portuguese police to detain two seemingly innocent individuals and violate their human rights by shaving off their xendis? Is this the kind of policing that Floriano wants to implement? Floriano: Just remember that the Portuguese regime was a dictatorship. And dictators do not recognise even humans,forget about human rights. Remember Hitler, Milosevich et al??. What I was conveying by those happenings is that the punishment was light but on the spot and mostly very humiliating. That is why there were no crimes (relatively as now) in Goa during that regime. Sure, you give me half a chance and I shall do just that. Someone has to put the lousy democracy into the pocket the moment approprite laws are made before the democracy puts us into its pockets, like the one we have in Goa now. Vivek: Bhausaheb bandodkar was a visionary and a product of his times. To heap scorn on him not only reflects a poor understanding of goas history but is also an indicator of a biased mindset. Bhau may not have been flawless but to tar all his actions with tne brush is unfair. Floriano: Oh yes! His vision of Goa was a kaleidoscope of technicolor of merger with Maharashtra. His Tenancy Act was so visionary that it wiped off the centuries old indegenous GAUNKARIES (Portuguese applelation Comunidades). And those GAUNKARIES were the brainchild of our forefathers where Bandodkar was not the inheritor but we Goans were and are. Goa's Orchards, cultivable fields all went the same visionary way to the tenants because these were predominantly held by Goan Hindus. However Goa's 'SALT PANS' didn't figure in Bandodkar's vision because these were held predominantly by Christians (95 %). Please check your statistics and tell me I am wrong. Bandodkar was absolutely communal, and, you don't have to take my word for it. Listen to what Adv. Amrut Kansar has to say or has said and probably say no more. Mr. Kansar was part of Bandodkar's gang at one time. And the man of 'letters' Mr. Atre's ( a Maharashtrian) special title for Bandodkar is 'MATRAGANINI' . It is the Marathi word. If you don't know the meaning,
[Goanet] Goa's art
I am wondering if Goa has art which was stolen from other places in its museums? Vice-versa is there Goan art which is sitting in other musuems, potentially stolen from Goa. This is not simply an art question, but one of cultural legacy. Yes, I fully support the Mona Lisa returning to Italy, Kohinoor diamond to India, and art in other European museums (or any museum for that matter) returning to its original location unless it was acquired in fair and free transaction. There is no simple and straight-forward way to do this or clearly define original location, but it is important enough to make an attempt as the Getty musuem is doing. This is a complicated topic as sometimes those who paid for the art may be from a different place/country than the artist. On the other hand there is art, clearly defined from a specific place. See story below on the Getty museum returning art to Greece. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060710/ap_en_ot/greece_getty_antiquities Regards, George ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] re Frederico Noronha on Women buying sex in Goa too!
Frederico Noronha on Women buying sex in Goa too! wrote the following (excerpted): 1: The subject-line should read: Women *too* buying sex in Goa too! 2: I'm not so sure thought that buying sex necessarily means enjoying it. 3: To me, this is another means of the capitalist society's more-is-better sales pitch;.Such thinking even counters the basic economic 'law of diminishing utility'. 4: Men have been buying sex for generations mainly because of their political power, and the fact that it's so disgustingly cheap! 5: When doing some work in the Baina red-light area, I was.. etc jc's response Wrt FN 1: I'd say that Fred is the expert on 'subject lines'. He must be right. FN 2: It is not for Fred or me to be sure or even curious or speculative about what and whether these women are enjoying the sex they buy. As far as I am concerned, Sexual Activity is a normal activity of adults. Only religion and victorian dys-values have made it something 'sinful' or 'kaala'. Besides, Sexual Activity is a private matter. Unlike what some righties believe, What happens consensually between a Man and a Woman is NOT the business of others, as long as Sex is not used to cause an offence. Do men and women always enjoy the meal they buy? Is it not enough that food takes care of their hunger? Why do men or women have to necessarily enjoy the sex they buy? Is it not enough that it satisfies their needs? There are many people who frequent restaurants for food. A good percentage of them go there because it is too difficult to travel home for a meal, it is boring to eat alone, the meal is kind of tastless at home etc etc. Is it possible that these women are in a similar predicament wrt their sexual needs? There is a well known adage that money does not necessarily buy happiness. It is also well known that husbands are often so boring that women really get bored and lonely. Sometimes they turn to other men, sometimes to other women. But let's not talk about that - there is NO sex in India. If we talk about it too loudly there will be Fire on the streets. FN 3: Wow! FN 4: Perhaps so but there might be a simpler but harder reason for Men buying sex. FN 5: That is your business ... I have no comment (:-) sincerely jc please visit NEW on The Goan Forum at http://www.colaco.net ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Women buying sex in Goa too!
Dear Fred, So many questions, all about sex and some about software roped in. I once sat next to a petite German Fraulein, who told me this was her third trip to Goa. Wow! I thought, Goa must be paradise for Germans. She punctured my thoughts by telling me that she was hoping Joaquin was still waiting for her. Apparently Joaquin had been her constant companion during her last trip. From the look in her eyes I could tell she had fallen in love with Joaquin and I didn't have the heart to tell her that once her Euros ran dry, Joaquin would run too. I agree with you that women who pay for sex ultimately get mistreated only because women unfortunately bond emotionally with those they have sex with. While men can exchange sex for platefuls of rice, women will not only start cooking that rice about two rendez-vous later but start doing their laundry as well. If we are now told that women are as capable of having sex without any emotional strings attached, then so be it. I don't think men that pay for sex do it because it's cheap. Sex is a biological urge. Men that pay for it, do it because it's available and it is so much easier to buy it then to have to invest in someone emotionally just to get sex. In many species the female is the sexual aggressor. I am assuming we are returning to our natural role, which evolution had ironed out of us :) Elisabeth - --- Frederick \FN\ Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Men have been buying sex for generations mainly because of their political power, and the fact that it's so disgustingly cheap! When doing some work in the Baina red-light area, I was shocked to realise that a woman could be dehumanised at the price of an inexpensive rice-plate! This is not justifiable, but if the price was a bit more fair, at least the whole equation would be so, so badly skewed. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Goa Suraj and migrant voting rights./response to Fred
On 10/07/06, Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Fred, The point I was trying to make about India, which has been misinterpreted is that, immigration into India is not an issue. There aren't large numbers of people Haven't you heard of North East India? Haven't you heard of Assam, and what lead to killings, and the whole AGP-style ethnic cleansing there? trying to get into India. The one time, we did have a huge influx of refugees from what was then E.Pakistan, we liberated the country and formed a new one called Bangladesh, so as to keep them exactly where they were. That's why Bal Thackeray finds it easy to issue call-to-arms against illegal Bangladeshi immigrants in places as far away as Bombay/Mumbai in recent years too? While there is some element of exaggeration in his depiction of the situation, migration into India is an issue concerning a few millions *only*. :-) But the more connected issue is that of migration *within* India. Almost every state feels swamped by some outsiders. Why? This is more relevant to our debate... In another perspective, Canada, New Zealand and upto recent times, Australia didn't have a problem with migration. Because these countries have a deficit to begin with and need people just to sustain habitation. But they're still very racist and opportunistic when it comes to deciding *which* people they should take, right? My purpose in trying to address the migrant issue is not to define who the other is, although it inevitably becomes part of the debate. As I stated earlier, I am a follower of Malthus and as such I cannot ignore the numbers game. It's all a numbers game to me and what is a viable, sustainable number for Goa. Rev. Thomas Robert Malthus, FRS, is proven wrong in almost every possible way by the example of Goa itself! Population Malthus' thoughts are better suited to the East India Company College at Haileybury in Hertfordshire, than to the needs of a society emerging out of colonialism. In An Essay on the Principle of Population, first published in 1798, Malthus made the famous prediction that population would outrun food supply, leading to a decrease in food per person. Goa is growing less food, but eating more! According to this Anglican country parson, only natural causes (eg. accidents and old age), misery (war, pestilence, and above all famine), moral restraint and vice (which for Malthus included infanticide, murder, contraception and homosexuality) could check excessive population growth. In Goa, it is none of these that has controlled population. It simply has been out-migration, education for women, and affluence that meant the middle-classes (and affluent) can ironically no longer 'afford' to have as many children as when they were poor. Ever wondered why the number of kids has dropped to 12 in our grandparents' generation to 1.8 per Goan couple in our times [Don't ask what happens to the missing .2 ;-) ] Malthus favoured moral restraint (including late marriage and sexual abstinence) as a check on population growth. This has happened automatically in Goa, thanks to outmigration, the growth of education, and a change in our stage of demographic transition. Trust an Anglican country parson to make these proposals only for the working and poor classes. So now we have a precedent which to impose on the migrant non-Goan. Meaning, the poor ones only, of course. FN -- -- Frederick 'FN' Noronha | Yahoomessenger: fredericknoronha http://fn.goa-india.org| +91(832)2409490 Cell 9822122436 -- 2248 copylefted photos from Goa: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fn-goa/ ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Gabe right about Brazil. Thoughts on Zinedine Zidane.
--- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: Again what game are you on about? France did not play Germany!! Or did I have one too many Stellas? Mario replies: Gabe is right, with or without his favorite Stellas. Thierry Henry's goal off a Zinedine Zidane free kick in a prior post was against Brazil. I should have said Brazilian players. Instead, I wrote German players. BTW, I saw a re-play of that goal again today from a different angle. Henry was clearly on-side when the ball was kicked in his direction, and ran past the defense to kick the ball past the Brazilian goalie. Regarding the final. As an American I am delighted that Italy, my favorite European country, beat France, my least favorite European country. However, as an ex-player, I was apalled by Zinedine Zidane losing his marbles 10 minutes before his illustrious, decades-long-career was about to end. What a way to end an otherwise stellar career, by receiving a red card in a World Cup final for an ignominious and senseless personal attack on an opponent, away from the action. What was he thinking? What could Materazzi have possibly said that made him lose his cool like that? There is a rumor going around the tabloids that Materazzi insulted Zidane's mother, or called the Arab-French Zidane a terrorist. Ironically, Zidane was thrown out of another match years ago for kicking a Saudi Arabian player. I am amazed that the soccer journalists still voted for Zidane to receive the Golden Ball as the most valuable player of this 2006 tournament. Huh? After what he did to perhaps cost his team the World Cup? Shame on them. However, I hope Zidane changes his mind about retiring from world-class soccer on such a low note. After-all, he is still better than 99.9% of soccer's best players. He needs to publicly apologize to Materazzi, to his own French team who may have won with him on the field, to his fans and to his country. He needs to make amends off and on the field of play, not leave the arena with his head bowed in shame. The European Cup is only 2 years away. Plenty of time to atone for his rare but serious infraction. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Cause of War, Confict and Violence
--- Aristo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to know what YOU feel is the PRIMARY root-cause of War, Confict and Violence in contemporary society, and how is it in contrast with historical wars. Is it due to: 1) Fundamentalism Bigotry (Religious, Cultural, Racial, Ideological, etc) 2) Greed (for Wealth, Power Authoritarianism, Glory) that is sometimes cleverly disguised as reason # 1 3) Innate violent nature of humans, more often of men. 4) Other Whether the Iraq war was due to reason #1 or #2 is a matter of great contention, judging from previos posts of Mario and others (which we wouldn't want to get into again, I might think) Mario responds: Not so fast, Aristo. You cannot sneak by with such a false premise by others which only demonstrates their woeful unfamiliarity with the 12-year run-up to the liberation of Iraq, the involvement of the entire UN throughout that period regarding the issue of Iraq's WMD's, and the 15 - 0 UN Security Council vote to pass UN resolution 1441 which demanded that Iraq disarm, disclose what they had done with their WMD's, or face serious consequences. This followed 16 previous UN resolutions between 1991 and end-2002 that had demanded that Iraq disarm, disclose what they had done with their WMD's, or face economic sanctions. Every one of those UN resolutions were violated by Iraq. These were UN resolutions, Aristo, starting before George Bush was even Governor of Texas. The entire UN believed Iraq had WMD's, Aristo, going back to 1991. Did you and the others know that? Until 9/11 Bush had wanted nothing to do with international nation-building. He said so when he ran for President in 2000. Got everyone upset around the world because they saw this as the US becoming isolationist. Did you and the others know that? In addition you and the others need to read the Joint US Senate and House resolution of October 2002 which authorized the US to go to war to change the regime in Iraq if necessary, as well as the US Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 demanded and signed by President Bill Clinton because of Iraq's WMD's and the concern that he would provide these to suicidal jihadis that had been attacking the US throughout the 90's. I'm sure you remember President Clinton, Aristo, a favorite of lefties everywhere. Even HE thought Iraq had WMD's. Imagine that. With this as background, it would be patently absurd to blame the Iraq war on your causes No. 1 or 2, unless you can make the case that the entire UN colluded in Fundamentalism Bigotry and Greed, and only against Iraq. Aristo writes: However, I also believe that wars of the past were caused mainly due to greed, the Crusades included. Mario replies: The Crusades took place during Christianity's fascist period. What level of greed do you suppose would cause Europeans to don heavy metal armor and ride on horses across Europe to the arid deserts of the middle-east to fight in 110 degree heat? No, it had nothing to do with greed. It was all about religious bigotry and fanaticism. You may be able to make the case that WW-II was started by greed, though, compounded by a maniacal ethnic hatred. Aristo writes: Coincidently, I happened to be listening to John Lennon's Imagine the other day, and began to ponder whether if there was no religion and there were no possessions, would the world really live as one? Mario observes: While you were pondering John Lennon's musings, did you factor in the Communist Manifesto, where the stated goal was to pre-emptively dominate the world by force to live under the yoke of the Communist philosophy, in which a central tenet was atheism? The communists wanted the world to live as one alright, under their thumb, with everyone's possessions belonging to them, i.e. the state. I hope you are not one of those who only wakes up and takes umbrage when totalitarian tyrants are being opposed, as in Iraq today, and sleeps like a baby when totalitarian tyrants are on a rampage, as in Iraq under Saddam Hussain. BTW, what do you think of communist/atheist N. Korea starving it's own people to develop nukes and missiles, menace their neighbors and sabre rattle on the world stage? What fundamentalist religious bigotry do you think is involved there? The places where your Item No. 1 fits perfectly into is in Iran, Israel/Palestine, and the stated goals of Al Qaeda. Let's talk some more if you like after you have had a chance to absorb all of the above. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] The rock solid Christian moral code (2)
--- Gilbert Lawrence wrote: If you call Buddhist and Jains as atheists, then we definitely have a semantic problem. Mario adds: Gilbert, Santosh is correct. Buddhists and Jains are atheist organizations, but they have all the essential moral features of a theistic religion. So, naturally the wiley, religion-bashing Santosh uses these liberally as a red herring to deflect attention from most individual atheists who are unorganized and have not signed on to any organized and publicly stated moral code. Buddhists and Jains have nothing in common with the five or six Goan unorganized individual atheists that appear on Goanet, some of whom are just curious, while the others are openly hostile towards religion and those who are religious. I have no problems with someone making an unequivocal moral equivalence between Buddhists and Jains and the major religions and the standards they impose on their membership. I do have a problem with someone making an unconditional moral equivalence between these and unorganized individual atheists, many of whom may be of upstanding moral character but because there are no external checks and balances no one has any idea what's going on unless they get arrested. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
