Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
Hi Santosh, I for one is comfortable with what Marshall posts, as he is not running for elections nor an opportunistic like Sonal shah, who does a spin now to get into the Obama team. hAVE a nICE dAY Seb --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com wrote: Very good points re: Sonal shah, Marshall. She has come clean now denouncing the pogrom by VHP. But it could be just an opportunistic statement because of compulsions. Should we take her by the words that she is speaking now or not, is the question. Hi Samir, Are you sure you are comfortable with taking Marshall and the writers of the articles he posts by their words, but not Sonal Shah? Is Marshall more truthful than Sonal Shah? Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
Samir, You said it! and rightly so! I now need not reply to Sandeep. I would have said more or less, the same thing. This also is part of my response to Santosh Helekar's defence of the indefensible. Sonal was indeed a member and part of VHPA and indirectly VHP. More importantly, She herself has admitted it and therefore compelled to 'renounce' just so that she might be allowed to keep her job. So what is Santosh accusing Marshall of bias and tainting Sonal. It's the American Indians (not red Indians :-) :-) ofcourse)who are objecting and exposing Sonal, and not Marshall directly. Marshall has only relayed on Goanet, so to say, what is happening in America. I do not have to know Sonal, as much as I do not have to know Santosh, in person; I come to know them, by way of news and or in their writings. So now will Santosh stop smearing Marshall and Apologise to Marshall? Previuosly Santosh has been about 'smearing' Gilbert and Fr. Ivo , and now Marshall. What a pity Santosh, that U of all people has to descend so low in attitude towards others. I rest my case! A concerned Goan and Indian. Let Peace and Harmony prevail. Nascy Caldeira Melbourne, Down Under. --- On Mon, 15/12/08, Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com wrote: Sandeep Heble says not all associted with RSS are criminals. I fully agree. Some have a Hindutva ideology, but they might refrain from violence. The point is Sonal needs to clarify on all this quite elaborately, rather than running away saying that she is not involved in Indian politics. That is a typical cop-out response. ETC ETC ETC regards, Samir Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=otherp2=aup3=tagline
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
-Original Message- From: Marshall Mendonza Bosco D'Mello:As a first-generation American at a very early age, it is possible that one is not aware of the extent of the activities of the VHP 'back home'. Response: Are you suggesting that she became a member and office bearer of an organisation without knowing its constitution and the ideology it stands for? Are you suggesting that as a fund raiser, she did not know for what purposes the funds were being used ? Are you suggesting that she was totally ignorant about the activities of the VHP despite the media publicity? RESPONSE: YesI believe she was only involved in relief work post-Gujarat earthquake. These are my conclusions based on my limited reading on the issue. Bosco D'Mello: Perhaps Sonal Shah should be judged by her work going forward rather than her associations of the past. Response: Should we offer the same privilege to Narendra Modi too? What about Dawood Ibrahim and sundry others? RESPONSE: It is inappropriate of you to associate Sonal with the other individuals above. Our views on issues evolve as we mature. There are various factors that influence what we say and what we do as we grow. So its likely Sonal joined and quit the VHPA. So what??? I do not believe Sonal has committed any criminal act and so we cannot associate her with any inappropriate activity of the VHP. Bosco D'Mello:Perhaps we are far too obsessed with this story and forgetting issues closer to home. Response: Bosco, I think you are missing the link between the VHPA and VHP back home. The one which is in the limelight for its terror activities against minorities, the latest in Orissa, Mangalore and elsewhere. RESPONSE: You are making far too many assumptions for one post.:-) I do not live in an insular coccoon. The funding of this organisation primarily comes from the expats in the USA and UK. Back in Goa, the HJS and SS, off-shoots of the VHP are in the forefront of creating communal discord. eg: FACT exhibition, protest against screening of M F Hussain's documentary at the IFFI. There are several links in the chain. Let us not become blind and complacent. RESPONSE: I agree we should not become blind and complacent. But to what degree are you willing to blame Sonal and her work for the neafrious activities of the organizations you mention above. Is she responsible for communal discord? terror activities against minorities?? Sonal is an economist first and everything else next. She has been tapped by Obama on account of her economic prowess. Like I said, chasing the enigma named Sonal is not addressing the issues closer to home albeit it appears you have clued-in by mentioning some of their names above. - b
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
Sandeep, In view of Marshalls explanation with quotes, Will U now please apologise to Marshall and to goanetters for talking nonsense. I think U have exposed yourself as to where your sensibilities and affiliations lie. Cheers! Nascy caldeira Melbourne,Down Under. --- On Sat, 13/12/08, Marshall Mendonza mmendonz...@gmail.com wrote: From: Marshall Mendonza mmendonz...@gmail.com Subject: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation Response: First of all, let me assure Sandeep that I have not joined any bandwagon or campaign nor will I join one any time in future. I have too strong an independent mind for that. As an Indian and as a concerned citizen of this country I am disturbed by reports which appear in the press casting doubts about the integrity of a person who can influence important decisions in the US towards India. eg: see link below. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Will_Sonal_Shah_give_Narendra_Modi_visa_power/rssarticleshow/3690558.cms 3. When Sonal joined the VHPA, she could not have been unaware of its ideology and activities. VHPA is affiliated to the VHP. The VHP has been around for nearly 25 years. The hate and violent activities of the VHP are too well known and documented in reports of the Minority Commission, National Human Rights Commission, various Commissions of Inquiry, and other reports in the media. The VHP was intrumental in the destruction of the Babri Masjid in 1992, which was a watershed in communal relations. She was a member of VHPA during this period and did not disassociate herself. 5. Even after the 2002 Gujarat pogrom, Sonal continued to be associated with the sangh parivar. According to reports - (1) Ms. Shah delivered a keynote address at the Hindu Swayamsevak Sangh young conference in 2004. The HSS is the U. S. branch of the RSS. (2) Ms. Shah delivered a keynote address at an Ekal Vidyalaya conference in Florida. The Ekal Vidyalaya's are schools set up in tribal areas. One Ekal Vidyalaya teacher, Mohan Lal, told Frontline reporter, T. K. Rajalakshmi, We go for the RSS shakha [branch] meetings regularly. The teachers are selected only if they subscribe to the RSS way of thought. Regards, Marshall Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=otherp2=aup3=tagline
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
--- On Sat, 12/13/08, Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com wrote: Even if we went just by Sonal Shah's words, it is clear that she did fund-raising for VHP in 2000 during the Gujarat earthquake. The only fact of Marshall's that I am believing here is that she was still associated with VHP after the Gujarat pogrom and even gave speeches as its representative. Now, this fact could be false, but Sonal hasnt explicitely said so. Samir, You have to go by her words and those of the people who know her. Here is an appeal from eminent Indians who know her well, entitled Politics of innuendo being carried out against Sonal Shah http://www.rediff.com/cms/print.jsp?docpath=//news/2008/nov/13sonal-eminent-persons-respond-to-charges.htm Here is a latest article in Washington Post in defense of her by an Indian American Muslim who is offended by the dishonest attacks against her: http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/eboo_patel/2008/12/sonal_shah_indian-american_in.html For your information, Sonal Shah raised funds not for VHP, but on behalf of a consortium of Indian American organizations of which the charity VHPA or VHP America was one. VHPA is a Hindu American charity registered under 501c3 classification of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service code. A 501c3 organization is prohibited from participating in any political activity. The VHPA has donated funds to other 501c3 organizations such as the American Red Cross, American Cancer Society and Salvation Army. Sonal Shah has clarified her charitable work and association with these organizations as follows: After the devastating earthquake in Gujarat in 2001, I worked on behalf of a consortium of Indian-American organizations to raise funds for humanitarian relief. The Vishwa Hindu Parishad of America (VHP-A), an independent charity associated with the eponymous Indian political group, was among these organizations, and it was the only one to list my name on its website. I am not affiliated with any of these organizations, including the VHP-A, and have not worked with any of them since 2001. Now unless you don't believe her and believe Marshall, who does not know her, instead, the above should answer your question as to whether she has been a representative of VHP before and/or after the Gujarat pogrom. Now please tell me what evidence did Marshall provide you to support your assertion that she was a representative of the VHP, and to support your other speculations regarding her ideology and that she has something to do with Modi. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
--- On Sat, 12/13/08, Nasci Caldeira nascy...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Marshall has no Professional or Business interests. What he is projecting is certainly in the larger interest of his Community and the Interest of India as a whole. By exposing the Rats he is doing a solemn service to Goa and India. Hi Nasci, Sonal Shah is not a rat. She is a female human being. Beyond that there is nothing much about her that might be of interest to you, except perhaps that she wears western clothes and speaks English. She might be wearing Indian clothes occasionally. I hope that is okay with you. Cheers, Santosh P.S. By the way do you know what is meant by guilt by association, and what kind of people engage in it?
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
Hi Santosh You might like to check the following out also. http://www.sacw.net/article328.html This is from Coalition against genocide. Please note that VHP/ RSS has been involved in Genocide before 2002 also. The Mumbai riots post Babri are one example. So, trying to associate with charity work from VHPA also shows a certain attitude. Of course, Sonal being an American can wash her hands off nicely saying she has nothing to do with Indian politics. That to me is a convenient stance, typical second generation Indian-American. The letter above asks Sonal to do more --- help the perpetrators of Gujarat riot to book. Would she do anything on that front ? Or will she wash it off conveniently saying it is India's internal matter? regards, Samir --- On Sun, 12/14/08, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation To: goanet@lists.goanet.org Cc: samir_kele...@yahoo.com Date: Sunday, December 14, 2008, 12:59 PM --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com wrote: Even if we went just by Sonal Shah's words, it is clear that she did fund-raising for VHP in 2000 during the Gujarat earthquake. The only fact of Marshall's that I am believing here is that she was still associated with VHP after the Gujarat pogrom and even gave speeches as its representative. Now, this fact could be false, but Sonal hasnt explicitely said so. Samir, You have to go by her words and those of the people who know her. Here is an appeal from eminent Indians who know her well, entitled Politics of innuendo being carried out against Sonal Shah http://www.rediff.com/cms/print.jsp?docpath=//news/2008/nov/13sonal-eminent-persons-respond-to-charges.htm Here is a latest article in Washington Post in defense of her by an Indian American Muslim who is offended by the dishonest attacks against her: http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/eboo_patel/2008/12/sonal_shah_indian-american_in.html For your information, Sonal Shah raised funds not for VHP, but on behalf of a consortium of Indian American organizations of which the charity VHPA or VHP America was one. VHPA is a Hindu American charity registered under 501c3 classification of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service code. A 501c3 organization is prohibited from participating in any political activity. The VHPA has donated funds to other 501c3 organizations such as the American Red Cross, American Cancer Society and Salvation Army. Sonal Shah has clarified her charitable work and association with these organizations as follows: After the devastating earthquake in Gujarat in 2001, I worked on behalf of a consortium of Indian-American organizations to raise funds for humanitarian relief. The Vishwa Hindu Parishad of America (VHP-A), an independent charity associated with the eponymous Indian political group, was among these organizations, and it was the only one to list my name on its website. I am not affiliated with any of these organizations, including the VHP-A, and have not worked with any of them since 2001. Now unless you don't believe her and believe Marshall, who does not know her, instead, the above should answer your question as to whether she has been a representative of VHP before and/or after the Gujarat pogrom. Now please tell me what evidence did Marshall provide you to support your assertion that she was a representative of the VHP, and to support your other speculations regarding her ideology and that she has something to do with Modi. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
--- On Sat, 13/12/08, Mario Goveia mgov...@sbcglobal.net wrote: If she is guilty of supporting violence in Gujarat because she did not speak up earlier in a public forum, then everyone who did not speak up in public when Al Qaeda was attacking US interests throughout the 90s, did not speak up when Saddam Hussain was brutalizing his people, and did not speak up when the Taliban were whipping women in the streets, are guilty of the same infraction as well. Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 19:00:37 -0800 (PST) From: Nasci Caldeira nascy...@yahoo.com.au Sonal has felt the Guilt; guilt by association. That is why she has had to issue the 'Denial and Ronouncing with VHP statement. Simple as that. So why are U attacking Marshall? Talk on Sonal Shah if U must. In your lower paragraph, U are comparing apples with bananas Should we not be more disciplined in our postings to goanet or to anyone for that matter. Mario responds: Nascibab, Shouldn't the discipline you are demanding include reading and understanding what is written before bloviating in response with some balderdash? Can you re-read your own excerpt shown above and show me where I have attacked Marshall, or anyone else? Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
I think the Sonal Shah episode raises a few questions about the nature of the Indian elites, particularly their opportunism. They are conservatives/reactionaries back home, but very progressive when it comes to sitting under the umbrella of diversity and sharing the fruit of some other culture. Haven't we seen a Rajan Parrikar fulminate against 'ghantis' back home, and then proudly hold up his US ballot paper to the camera and tell us (quite late in the day, when the direction of the wind was more than clear) that he was a proud Obama supporter? Does Sonal Shah reflect just the opportunism of the Indian expat, or also the gullibility/machiavellianism of an Obama, willing to settle in office and not too worried about the compromises with whomever at the ideological level? We have also seen expats do cartwheels over Sonal Shah. The logic seems to have been she's one of our own, she should be supported at any cost. Ms. Shah, former member of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, has said if she could have anticipated the outfit's role in the 2002 communal violence in Gujarat, she would have never associated with its U.S. branch, a year before the incident. This is an ingenuous argument. I guess all those who joined the Nazi party before 1939 could have said the same. We all know the ideology of any organisation we join, and we are guided by that. In a statement, obtained and posted by NextGov and the National Journal, the Google executive said the 2002 Gujarat carnage was one of the most profound tragedies in the long history of the state when extremist political leaders, including some associated with the VHP, incited riots that resulted in the deaths of thousands. In an E-mail sent to her supporters, Ms. Shah asked for help in combating the allegations and expressed apprehension that Mr. Obama transition team could ask her to resign. I need your help, wrote Ms. Shah. This is gaining legs as the National Journal also picked it up and likely Fox. I need to mobilise people against the leftists and the right wing. There is a likely chance that they will ask me to resign as team does not need my publicity. Ms. Shah has formerly been with the Goldman Sachs and served as a Treasury Department official in the Clinton administration. http://www.hindu.com/2008/12/12/stories/2008121255371400.htm This is amazing. She seems to realise, six years after it happened, that the anti-Muslim riots were one of the most profound tragedies ... mainly because she could lose her post on the Obama team? This incident reflects on Obama and the power of compromise, it reflects on expats and their attitudes to issues back home (besides a degree of ideological opportunism). It also shows that, contrary to all we say, scratch us skin deep and our biases over religion come out strong. Even when we claim to be bereft of all religious influences, and agnostic or atheist in our approach! FN
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
--- On Sat, 12/13/08, Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com wrote: Very good points re: Sonal shah, Marshall. She has come clean now denouncing the pogrom by VHP. But it could be just an opportunistic statement because of compulsions. Should we take her by the words that she is speaking now or not, is the question. Hi Samir, Are you sure you are comfortable with taking Marshall and the writers of the articles he posts by their words, but not Sonal Shah? Is Marshall more truthful than Sonal Shah? Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
--- On Sat, 12/13/08, Frederick FN Noronha f...@goa-india.org wrote: I think the Sonal Shah episode raises a few questions about the nature of the Indian elites, particularly their opportunism. They are conservatives/reactionaries back home, but very progressive when it comes to sitting under the umbrella of diversity and sharing the fruit of some other culture. Sonal Shah came to the U.S. when she was four. Perhaps, Frederick was politically active at that age. Facts indicate that she has never participated in Indian politics. Those who know her - Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Jews, Indians, Pakistanis, etc. - vouch that she is not, and has never been, a Hindu extremist in her thinking or her deeds. She has no connection with Rajan Parrikar. So what facts is Frederick relying on to draw his conclusions? In the following, Frederick speculates left and right, asks some questions based on these speculations and brings up the Nazis. He suggests that Sonal Shah is guilty by her associations, and because he is not aware of her prior denunciations of Hindu extremists. He does not tell us whether he knew her personally, so as to be privy to her thoughts. He does not seem to require, however, that her accusers who are members of the Communist Party renounce their affiliation, and denounce the crimes of Stalin, etc. The main accuser Vijay Prashad has even praised Ho Chi Minh. But his speculative post leads me to ask Frederick the following questions: 1. Does he believe that Sonal Shah is a Hindu extremist who believes/has believed in the Hindutva ideology and practices/practiced communalism? 2. Does he believe she condones violence, and has condoned the Gujarat genocide? Cheers, Santosh --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Frederick FN Noronha f...@goa-india.org wrote: This is an ingenuous argument. I guess all those who joined the Nazi party before 1939 could have said the same. We all know the ideology of any organisation we join, and we are guided by that. In a statement, obtained and posted by NextGov and the National Journal, the Google executive said the 2002 Gujarat carnage was one of the most profound tragedies in the long history of the state when extremist political leaders, including some associated with the VHP, incited riots that resulted in the deaths of thousands.
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
I think the Sonal Shah episode raises a few questions about the nature of the Indian elites, particularly their opportunism. RESPONSE: Opportunism is practiced by elites and others vis-avis everyone. Haven't we seen a Rajan Parrikar fulminate against 'ghantis' back home, and then proudly hold up his US ballot paper to the camera and tell us (quite late in the day, when the direction of the wind was more than clear) that he was a proud Obama supporter? RESPONSE: Many people voted for Obama because they disliked Bush!! And Mario tells us regularly why people dislike Bush. Does Sonal Shah reflect just the opportunism of the Indian expat, or also the gullibility/machiavellianism of an Obama, willing to settle in office and not too worried about the compromises with whomever at the ideological level? RESPONSE: America the land of opportunity - where all things are possible. It is unlikely the average expat knows fully well the extent of their involvement with organizations connected 'back home'. In 30-odd days we will know whether Obama has dressed himself in a straight-jacket trying to be everything to all people. Ms. Shah, former member of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, has said if she could have anticipated the outfit's role in the 2002 communal violence in Gujarat, she would have never associated with its U.S. branch, a year before the incident. This is an ingenuous argument. I guess all those who joined the Nazi party before 1939 could have said the same. We all know the ideology of any organisation we join, and we are guided by that. RESPONSE: As a first-generation American at a very early age, it is possible that one is not aware of the extent of the activities of the VHP 'back home'. This individual is a high-performer, perhaps with a busy professional/family life, happy to lend a hand and her name to the country of her roots - India via the VHP. Perhaps Sonal Shah should be judged by her work going forward rather than her associations of the past. Perhaps we are far too obsessed with this story and forgetting issues closer to home. - b
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 12:00:28 -0500 From: Bosco D'Mello bos...@canada.com Many people voted for Obama because they disliked Bush!! And Mario tells us regularly why people dislike Bush. Mario responds: Actually, post election polls showed that many people voted for Obama because they were clueless. See www.howobamagotelected.com Excerpt: Wilson Research Poll The 12 Zogby questions were duplicated, one on the Keating scandal was added for extra balance. The results from Obama voters were virtually IDENTICAL in both polls. Here are the highlights: 35 % of McCain voters got 10 or more of 13 questions correct. 18% of Obama voters got 10 or more of 13 questions correct. McCain voters knew which party controls congress by a 63-27 margin. Obama voters got the “congressional control” question wrong by 43-41. Those that got congressional control correct voted 56-43 for McCain. Those that got congressional control wrong voted 65-35 for Obama. The poll also asked voters to name all the media sources from which they got information. Those “exposed” to Fox News got congressional control correct 64-25 (+39) Those “exposed” to CNN got “congressional control” correct 48-38 (+10) Those “exposed” to Network news got “congressional control” correct 48-39 (+9) Those “exposed” to print media got “congressional control” correct 52-37 (+15) Those “exposed” to MSNBC got “congressional control” correct 55-35 (+20) Those “exposed” to talk radio got “congressional control” correct 61-29 (+32) Voters in the South had the best response rate on “congressional control” (+22) Voters in the Northeast had the worst response rate on “congressional control” (+9) Those “exposed” to Fox News voted 70-29 for McCain. Those “exposed” to CNN voted 63-37 for Obama. Those “exposed” to MSNBC voted 73-26 for Obama. Those “exposed” to network newscasts voted 62-37 for Obama. Those “exposed” to national newspapers voted 64-36 for Obama. Those “exposed” to talk radio voted 61-38 for McCain. Those that could associate Bill Ayers' name/story with Obama voted 52-48 for McCain (We added Ayers name to the Zogby question and it significantly increased the rate of correct response, indicating a very superficial grasp of the overall story). Those that knew Obama had made negative comments about “coal power plants voted 76-24 for McCain. Those that knew Obama had his opponents knocked off the ballot in his first campaign voted 66-34 for McCain. McCain voters did poorly (only 42% correct) on the Keating question and,in general, the voters did universally worse on questions where the negative information was about their candidate Women under 55 did worse than they might have by guessing on four of the thirteen questions, and yet 95% of them knew that Palin was the candidate with a pregnant teenage daughter. Even 95% of those in this demographic group who didn't know “congressional control” got this question correct. Those “exposed” to MSNBC “scored” 90% correct on the three Palin questions (including an incredible 98% on the “pregnant teenage daughter” question), while those not “exposed” to MSNBC averaged 84% correct on those three questions.
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
--- On Sat, 12/13/08, Marshall Mendonza mmendonz...@gmail.com wrote: Response: First of all, let me assure Sandeep that I have not joined any bandwagon or campaign nor will I join one any time in future. I have too strong an independent mind for that. Perhaps, Sandeep will judge the strong independent mind independently. But to my mind the rest of the above post is a continuation of a classic example of dishonest guilt by association smear, now independently laced with half-truths and falsehoods, against an innocent Indian American. The independent-minded author questions Sonal Shah's integrity based on quotes and articles from partisan fringe websites that have little or nothing to do with her, such as www.proxsa.org, www.stopfundinghate.org, and www.countercurrents.org, and selected reports in the media with hypothetical, speculative titles such as Will Obama's top aide give Modi visa power?. He ignores the testimonials and factual accounts written by eminent people who actually know Sonal Shah personally. He mentions the nefarious deeds of VHP in India, massages and twists some facts about her to link her to this organization and some other organizations that are guilty by association with it. His independent mind then relies on independent innuendo and hearsay, and claims that everything he has written are facts that we must believe, but the facts that Sonal Shah and those who know her have provided cannot be believed. She still has to answer some imaginary questions that occur to this independent mind. What those questions are nobody knows, and nobody knows why this mind would believe her even if she answers those questions. After all, she is not Mother Teresa. Cheers, Santosh P.S. Here are some examples of fabricated facts and twisting of facts to establish the bogus guilt by association in the strong independent-mind post: It's vital for Modi that Sonal eventually gets an important profile in the Obama Administration because an insider could influence or change policy decisions of the previous dispensation - Times of India (The author has not provided any source or evidence for this malicious insinuation) She collected funds for the VHPA and other sangh parivar associated organisations ostensibly for the Gujarat earthquake victims, even though there were other reputed agencies like the Red Cross available. - Marshall Mendonza (The author has twisted Sonal Shah's words, and has not provided evidence that she collected funds for other Sangh Parivar associated organizations. He has also not stated how he knows that she did not work with Red Cross.) When Sonal joined the VHPA, she could not have been unaware of its ideology and activities. VHPA is affiliated to the VHP. The VHP has been around for nearly 25 years. The hate and violent activities of the VHP are too well known and documented in reports of the Minority Commission. - Marshall Mendonza (The author speculates about what Sonal Shah did and knew, claims to know the nature of the relationship of VHPA with VHP, and develops a classic guilt by association chain, linking Sonal Shah with extremism and violence in India) --- On Sat, 12/13/08, Marshall Mendonza mmendonz...@gmail.com wrote: No amount of whitewashing or spin doctoring will wish the above facts away. As I wrote in an earlier post, I too would be proud to see an Indian in the inner echelons of the White House but it should be a person whom all of us Indians, whether hindu, muslim, christian etc can admire and be proud of. There are questions to be answered and Sonal Shah needs to come clean if she is to be believed. And the earlier the better. Regards, Marshall
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
Mario, Sonal has felt the Guilt; guilt by association. That is why she has had to issue the 'Denial and Ronouncing with VHP statement. Simple as that. So why are U attacking Marshall? Talk on Sonal Shah if U must. In your lower paragraph, U are comparing apples with bananas Should we not be more disciplined in our postings to goanet or to anyone for that matter. Nascy Caldeira, Melbourne, Down Under. --- On Sat, 13/12/08, Mario Goveia mgov...@sbcglobal.net wrote: If she is guilty of supporting violence in Gujarat because she did not speak up earlier in a public forum, then everyone who did not speak up in public when Al Qaeda was attacking US interests throughout the 90s, did not speak up when Saddam Hussain was brutalizing his people, and did not speak up when the Taliban were whipping women in the streets, are guilty of the same infraction as well. Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=otherp2=aup3=tagline
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
Hi Santosh, I do not see anything 'un thruthful' in Marshall's postings. He is rightfully exposing all the evil that is happening and more and his source is from the Media. He brings to the goanet forum what we goanettters might have missed out. The only people who are shaken by his truthful expose's are the Hundutwa wallahs and supporters, like Uday, (Dr???). I am surprised to see U who says he is not biased et al, is picking up on Marshall. Marshall has no Professional or Business interests. What he is projecting is certainly in the larger interest of his Community and the Interest of India as a whole. By exposing the Rats he is doing a solemn service to Goa and India. All that U are doing of late is criticising for nothing at all. I used to think highly of you and think of you as an intelectual; But surely I do not hold you in high regard anymore. U seem to be competing with Mario G. in 'going on and on' on matters that really do not matter at least to goanetters and wasting bandwith' and everyone's precious time. I agree with what Samir says. After all Sonal has an interest in the job she has, and now that she has disowned the various groups and their malice, she has earned her stripe, but even so 'caution' is required. Marshall's truthful posting and Sonal's 'Denial' are complimentary; I hold both Marshall and Sonal in her latest Denial Statement, as truthful. I do no see how any sane person can take objection to Marshall. Are U perturbed that U are loosing it and do not have any winning arguments? Seems like it! Please see that this is nothing personal on you, but only with regards to your wanton, uneccessary outbursts against Marshall. Cheers! Nascy Caldeira Melbourne, Down Under. --- On Sun, 14/12/08, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Samir, Are you sure you are comfortable with taking Marshall and the writers of the articles he posts by their words, but not Sonal Shah? Is Marshall more truthful than Sonal Shah? Santosh Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=otherp2=aup3=tagline
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
--- On Thu, 12/11/08, Marshall Mendonza mmendonz...@gmail.com wrote: Earlier we were informed that it was 'guilt by association' and that the VHP of A is different from the VHP. Now that the cat is out of the bag, I wonder what her apologists and spin doctors will tell us next. It is not surprising that the guy who is relentlessly trying to smear an innocent person and humanitarian like Sonal Shah on Goanet for narrow communal and political reasons does not understand what is meant by guilt by association, and is now engaging in name-calling against Goanetters who are exposing his deeds. Here is Sonal Shah's latest statement on these dishonest guilt by association smears initiated by someone who spread similar malicious smears against Mother Teresa. BEGIN QUOTE I was recently maligned by a professor at a college in Connecticut who wrote an article in CounterPunch accusing me of association with Hindu extremism. Then, a few days ago, former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum, former Republican Senator from Pennsylvania, published an editorial in the Philadelphia Inquirer, to which this site linked, that echoed the CounterPunch accusations. These attacks sadden me, but they share one other thing in common: the accusations are false. In reaction to these attacks, my closest friends -- and many strangers -- have rallied to my side. I am touched by this outpouring of support. And as painful as this episode has been for me personally, I welcome the opportunity to discuss this issue with the seriousness that it deserves, but the conversation should proceed on the basis of verified facts and reasoned argument, not innuendo and defamation. Indian politics and history are contested and emotive, but also unfamiliar to most Americans. I understand why so many Indians and Indian-Americans feel strongly about religious extremism in India, because I share the same concerns. I am an American, and my political engagements have always and only been American. I served as a U.S. Treasury Department official for seven years, and now work on global development policy at Google.org. And I am honored to serve on the Presidential Transition Team of President-elect Obama while on leave from Google.org. I emigrated from India at the age of four, and grew up in Houston. Like many Americans, I remain proud of my heritage. But my engagement with India has been exclusively cultural and humanitarian. After the devastating earthquake in Gujarat in 2001, I worked on behalf of a consortium of Indian-American organizations to raise funds for humanitarian relief. The Vishwa Hindu Parishad of America (VHP-A), an independent charity associated with the eponymous Indian political group, was among these organizations, and it was the only one to list my name on its website. I am not affiliated with any of these organizations, including the VHP-A, and have not worked with any of them since 2001. The experience with the Gujarat earthquake did, however, teach me an important lesson. It pointed up a lack of dedicated infrastructure to help alleviate suffering in India, so together with my brother and sister, I founded Indicorps, an organization modeled on the U.S. Peace Corps that enables young Indian-Americans to spend a year in service to marginalized communities in India. The fellows come from every religious background, and have worked among every religious community in India. Indeed, some Indicorps fellows focus on inter-faith dialogue as part of their projects. In 2002, Gujarat suffered one of the most profound tragedies in its long history, when extremist political leaders, including some associated with the VHP, incited riots that resulted in the deaths of thousands. Had I been able to foresee the role of the VHP in India in these heinous events, or anticipate that the VHP of America could possibly stand by silently in the face of its Indian counterpart's complicity in the events of Gujarat in 2002 -- thereby undermining the American group's cultural and humanitarian efforts with which I was involved -- I would not have associated with the VHP of America. Sadly, CounterPunch and Senator Santorum have suggested that I somehow endorse that violence and the ongoing violence in Orissa. I do not - I deplore it. But more than that, I have worked against it, and will continue to do so. I have already denounced the groups at issue and am hopeful that we can begin to have an honest conversation about the ways immigrant and diaspora communities can engage constructively in social and humanitarian work abroad. END QUOTE Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Sonal Shah renounces VHP affiliation
I endorse Santosh's views entirely on this. I somehow fail to understand why Marshall has joined the bandwagon of people, who are all out to tarnish the fair name of Sonal Shah with propaganda that is false, malicious and misleading, The link below is a strong objective rebuttal to the smear campaign that has been launched against Sonal Shah. (I have not followed this debate between Marshall and Santosh closely so far but I presume the link has not been published here before) http://wetware.blogspot.com/2008_11_01_archive.html Sonal Shah has done Indians and South Asians proud with her achievements. Indians need to laud her and not tarnish her on the basis of mere guilt by Association as Santosh has rightly pointed out; and/or a campaign that is not even remotely related to the truth! The above link should set the records straight. Cheers Sandeep - Santosh helekar wrote on Goanet It is not surprising that the guy who is relentlessly trying to smear an innocent person and humanitarian like Sonal Shah on Goanet for narrow communal and political reasons does not understand what is meant by guilt by association, and is now engaging in name-calling against Goanetters who are exposing his deeds. Here is Sonal Shah's latest statement on these dishonest guilt by association smears initiated by someone who spread similar malicious smears against Mother Teresa.
