Re: [h-cost] getting oil stains out of fabric
Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: Does anyone have a record of these threads or a good tip that they can email me off list since I had an encounter with an exploding bottle of salad dressing (wearing new clothes, naturally), and I need to deal with a large blob of olive oil right in the middle of the top... Hair shampoo works fairly well as a first-pass; rub it in, wait a few minutes, throw in the washer. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] getting oil stains out of fabric
I did the same thing to my new expensive dressing gown last week. I just threw it in the heavy duty laundry soaker and fairly hot water, and it came out quickly and easily. Must be the week for it - I just dropped some tartare sauce on my top (eating prawns - the wonders of Christmas in Summer!), so I'll get that in the soak now. Glenda. - Original Message - From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 6:54 PM Subject: [h-cost] getting oil stains out of fabric Greetings, I know this has been discussed ad nauseam in the past but the changed archives don't seem to give me what I need. Does anyone have a record of these threads or a good tip that they can email me off list since I had an encounter with an exploding bottle of salad dressing (wearing new clothes, naturally), and I need to deal with a large blob of olive oil right in the middle of the top... Cheers, Danielle ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] getting oil stains out of fabric
My mother in law swears by cheap kid's bubblebath...kinda like the father in my Big Fat Greek Wedding and his 'Windex', the bubblebath will remove almost any stain. Kelly Bravery is something you can experience on the spur of the moment, faced with danger. To have courage, you must think about the dangers in advance, then weigh the risks, and then do what you have to do, despite your fears Caius Merlyn Britannicus From: Cynthia Virtue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] getting oil stains out of fabric Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 03:05:11 -0500 Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: Does anyone have a record of these threads or a good tip that they can email me off list since I had an encounter with an exploding bottle of salad dressing (wearing new clothes, naturally), and I need to deal with a large blob of olive oil right in the middle of the top... Hair shampoo works fairly well as a first-pass; rub it in, wait a few minutes, throw in the washer. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 795
In a message dated 12/15/05 11:53:16 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was disappointed that Mrs. Beaver didn't get her new sewing machine from Father Christmas in the movie. now that's just not fair - poor mrs beaver. a couple of weeks the telegraph newspaper (UK) were giving away a free cd of the story, and even though it's seriously abridged, she still got her new machine. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Chinese Mummies (was Humans in England, 700k years?)
From: Karen R Bergquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...rhodesiensis) was still in Africa. The mummies of Urumchi date to about 4,000 years ago and are homo sapiens although they appear to be caucasian rather than oriental which is why finding them in the interior of China is so remarkable. Except that it really shouldn't be.- it's not like they were found in the Yangtze basin. They're from an area where Caucasians were known to be historically; and a much shorter walk from the assumed areas where the Indo-European ancestors are supposed to be from than any of the other areas where we know they went to the west and south. Some going east makes perfect sense. We just tend to assume that if something happened in a particular geographical region, everyone in that region must be alike. It's similar to the current argueent that since Egypt is in Africa, Cleopatra must have been black, and ignoring the whole reality of regional ethnic types (and more so of their placement 2000 years ago). Marc ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re:colonial costume
Yes, do try to get her to upgrade to a more authentic dress, instead of a costume. Bottom line, it looks better. you don't have to go the whole hog authentic route, many adjustments can be made to make it easier/faster/more accessible 1. wear correct underpinnings. That corset stays pattern that is still available in butterick (.99 cent on sale if your lucky) can be made pretty quickly. and it is a good shape. and it goes up to patterns size 22 (This one is on my ironing board to start making soon. at least I got it cut out!) It does not have many bones and could actually be made without any. AND ITS WAY WAY more comfortable than ANY 20/21st century bra. WAY WAY MORE COMFORTABLE ( Yes I am shouting. I have HUM very large bosoms. I'd rather wear stays any day. You can't pick up things from the floor, but... it's way better than any bra) 2. Use the petticoat and dress variation. It makes a large behind and hippal area look OK, just like you have several petticoats on. The bodice attached to the waist makes things fit a bit funny 3. Linen is way better for hot than cotton. It can be hard to find linen sometimes. The combination of reasons 1 and 2 will give you a smooth line . The lace V over a modern underwear combination is kind of bloppy to me. One of the American 18 cent high flyers, (Barbara Delory I think, I will try to find that web site and cite it properly), did a side by side comparison of a women fully dressed out in 18 cent real stuff next to a woman in 18th cent costume (the bra look) Now I'm prejudiced, and an authenticity pusher, but Plus which she will be the center of good attention 18th cent Mia in Charlottetown, NC, Who wnats to replicate a painting for her next outfit. ONe of the figures George stubbs the haymakers ca. 1790 or so. Big Black bonnett, blue linen gown and petticaot. white apron) working class. - Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chinese Mummies (was Humans in England, 700k years?)
Well, since the ethnic Chinese who discovered them and the locals in the area thought it was weird that the mummies were Caucasian, that's good enough for me. While the Silk and Spice Roads were known to be in operation 1000 to 2000 years ago, finding these people in that area put the whole timeline of the area back several thousand years. I have the book and it makes it quite clear that the AGE of the finds was what they found remarkable- more recent Caucasian remains wouldn't have been as odd. Also, these folks appear to be from a Celtic/Proto-Celtic (in the broadest sense of Celtic, I'm not talking about Irish!) people judging from their fabric. The fabric was found with a clear twill weave, something that the Chinese didn't use. Of course in retrospect it's clear that some people went east instead of west in the migrations that brought the Celtic people all over the Eurasian continent, it's just that these finds were the first evidence that a Celtic people moved that far east and settled there. Karen Seamstrix -- Marc Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Karen R Bergquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...rhodesiensis) was still in Africa. The mummies of Urumchi date to about 4,000 years ago and are homo sapiens although they appear to be caucasian rather than oriental which is why finding them in the interior of China is so remarkable. Except that it really shouldn't be.- it's not like they were found in the Yangtze basin. They're from an area where Caucasians were known to be historically; and a much shorter walk from the assumed areas where the Indo-European ancestors are supposed to be from than any of the other areas where we know they went to the west and south. Some going east makes perfect sense. We just tend to assume that if something happened in a particular geographical region, everyone in that region must be alike. It's similar to the current argueent that since Egypt is in Africa, Cleopatra must have been black, and ignoring the whole reality of regional ethnic types (and more so of their placement 2000 years ago). Marc ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chinese Mummies (was Humans in England, 700k years?)
Okay, I went to the book. Here's one of the pertinent passages. According to Chinese historical documents, the Han Chinese themselves began to move into Central Asia only around 120B.C., struggling to open up regular trade with the West. So historians would not particularly expect Chinese mummies in Central Asia in the second millenium B.C. But why not Mongoloid? Archeologists and linguists alike had assumed that the Mongol-type peoples had 'always' inhabited this entire area, ever since the spread of Homo sapiens sapiens around the globe at the end of the Ice Age forty thousand years ago. They also assumed central and northern Asia to be the general homeland of the Altaic linguistic group, which today includes Mongol and the various Turkic and Tungusic languages. (Northern Central Asia was of course the heartland from which emanated the great invasions of Turks and Mongols during our own millneium.) To find Caucasians was a surprise. Karen Seamstrix ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 4, Issue 795
http://www.18cnewenglandlife.org/18cnel/delorey5.htm This si old, so of course the picture is dead or something Mia in Charlotte, NC, now done trying to convert costume to clothes. as in Wait, this isn't a costume, these are my clothes! - Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] historical action figures
I make no claims about the costuming, but the concept is cute: http://www.mcphee.com/categories/action.html Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] historical action figures
I had to snicker over this blurb from the Marie Antoinette doll, er figure: This 5-1/2 tall, hard vinyl figure features amazing Ejector Head Action, and comes with a removable plastic wig and dress. ;-) ~Kimberley -Original Message- From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:19:14 -0600 Subject: [h-cost] historical action figures I make no claims about the costuming, but the concept is cute: http://www.mcphee.com/categories/action.html Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Chinese Mummies (was Humans in England, 700k years?)
Mongoloid, I believe is a physical description not an ethnic description. Perhaps you are looking for Mongolian? Sorry I stand corrected: A genetically and physiologically identifiable race of the human species. Includes people of north and east Asia, Malaysians, and American Indians. Orientals are part of this race. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] historical action figures
At 17:25 15/12/2005, you wrote: I had to snicker over this blurb from the Marie Antoinette doll, er figure: This 5-1/2 tall, hard vinyl figure features amazing Ejector Head Action, and comes with a removable plastic wig and dress. I'm very taken with the lederhosen! http://www.mcphee.com/items/11138.html Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chinese Mummies (was Humans in England, 700k years?)
I actually did shy away from using that term, but it's a quote from the book. And I believe one of the reasons that what used to be called 'Mongolism' is now known as Down's Syndrome is to get away from unflattering ethnic comparisons. Besides, I have it on good authority that children with DS in the orient are thought to look more Caucasian... Karen Seamstrix On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:37:55 -0600 otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mongoloid, I believe is a physical description not an ethnic description. Perhaps you are looking for Mongolian? Sorry I stand corrected: A genetically and physiologically identifiable race of the human species. Includes people of north and east Asia, Malaysians, and American Indians. Orientals are part of this race. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] getting oil stains out of fabric
What is the fiber content? If not silk, usually a pre-treatment of the spot or the whole blouse, in Shout, Dreft, oxi-clean, goop, Era, Woolite...etc. Wash in warm. Sometimes a second wash is needed (but rarely). De Who worked at a McDonalds for six years and had to deal with oil and grease on uniforms. -Original Message- Greetings, I know this has been discussed ad nauseam in the past but the changed archives don't seem to give me what I need. Does anyone have a record of these threads or a good tip that they can email me off list since I had an encounter with an exploding bottle of salad dressing (wearing new clothes, naturally), and I need to deal with a large blob of olive oil right in the middle of the top... Cheers, Danielle ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] getting oil stains out of fabric
Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: Does anyone have a record of these threads or a good tip that they can email me off list since I had an encounter with an exploding bottle of salad dressing (wearing new clothes, naturally), and I need to deal with a large blob of olive oil right in the middle of the top... I always had good luck with a commercial degreaser (Fuller-Brush makes one as does Shacklee) -- and the Shacklee Basic H. (my folks used to sell Shacklee at one time -- that's my only connection). Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] historical action figures
In fact, the lederhosen is THE gift for my brother-in-law, who's usually quite difficult to shop for! Thanks for this site--I've dropped a few bucks but it was a lot of fun. I do wish Wilde had been more accessorized, but I'm not sure what I would have added. Perhaps a lace handkerchief. I direct a staged-readings series and wish I had had the Poe action figure to sit by our mailing-list sign-up when we did Jeffrey Hatcher's MURDER BY POE this past October! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -Original Message- From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Dec 15, 2005 12:44 PM To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] historical action figures At 17:25 15/12/2005, you wrote: I had to snicker over this blurb from the Marie Antoinette doll, er figure: This 5-1/2 tall, hard vinyl figure features amazing Ejector Head Action, and comes with a removable plastic wig and dress. I'm very taken with the lederhosen! http://www.mcphee.com/items/11138.html Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Panniers question
During my trip to England this past summer I happened upon a doll that I think dates to the late 17th, early 18th century, based upon the style of doll that it is. The doll was in a museum that didn't have a date on the doll and of course I was deep in a whole other project at the time and didn't ask if there was more information. So now that I need to get a better date if possible, I was hoping I could use the doll's clothing as a guide. She wears panniers- the huge at the side kind of bustle thing-it's not my period at all, so excuse me if I have that wrong. Can anyone give me beginning and end dates of when this style was worn in England?The doll itself is housed in Norwich, in a museum that could be using toys from the families that have lived in this house since the 14th century, but I don't know if this doll was a gift to the museum or not. any help give is much appreaciated. Alexandria ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] historical action figures
I had to snicker over this blurb from the Marie Antoinette doll, er figure: This 5-1/2 tall, hard vinyl figure features amazing Ejector Head Action, and comes with a removable plastic wig and dress. ;-) ~Kimberley Trust me, m'dear, you aren't the only one. ;) I may have to purchase the Casanova figure, so he can ride on my shoulder to the movie when it opens. It is a little disturbing to note that I am one cat short of the Crazy Cat Lady figure, though. :/ Kate McClure Grand Pooh-Bah Beyond Reality Costumers Guild www.brcg.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] getting oil stains out of fabric
I have had reasonable luck using dish washing detergent on such stains. Jeanine Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: Greetings, I know this has been discussed ad nauseam in the past but the changed archives don't seem to give me what I need. Does anyone have a record of these threads or a good tip that they can email me off list since I had an encounter with an exploding bottle of salad dressing (wearing new clothes, naturally), and I need to deal with a large blob of olive oil right in the middle of the top... Cheers, Danielle ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Woven Fabrics Website
Hello! I was just perusing the web a bit, and ran across this: http://www.thistlehillweavers.com/ They do reproduction weaving of period fabric, which I thought might be of use to some. Kate McClure Grand Pooh-Bah Beyond Reality Costumers Guild www.brcg.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] historical action figures
- Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 12:19 PM Subject: [h-cost] historical action figures I make no claims about the costuming, but the concept is cute: http://www.mcphee.com/categories/action.html Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] historical action figures
Thank you for that link; it certainly cheered up my day. Although I am not a big fan of unicorns, I could be persuaded to make an exception for the one on this site... -Helen/Aidan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] historical action figures
Hi Dawn, Its hillarious, Marie Antoinette has a removable head Bjarne - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 6:19 PM Subject: [h-cost] historical action figures I make no claims about the costuming, but the concept is cute: http://www.mcphee.com/categories/action.html Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Panniers question
Dear Alexandria. It develloped trough the 1730ies and became the largest size in the 1740ies. It started to be a dome shaped pannier, became flattened and started to extend to the sides. Then in the 1760ies it grew smaller again, and ended up with bumrolls in 1770ies and 80ies. The french claims it is english invention, english vise versa. French story was that two english ladies walked in a park with huge panniers in a french park, and they started a fashion very quickly. The english version, i dont know. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Alex Doyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 7:23 PM Subject: [h-cost] Panniers question During my trip to England this past summer I happened upon a doll that I think dates to the late 17th, early 18th century, based upon the style of doll that it is. The doll was in a museum that didn't have a date on the doll and of course I was deep in a whole other project at the time and didn't ask if there was more information. So now that I need to get a better date if possible, I was hoping I could use the doll's clothing as a guide. She wears panniers- the huge at the side kind of bustle thing-it's not my period at all, so excuse me if I have that wrong. Can anyone give me beginning and end dates of when this style was worn in England?The doll itself is housed in Norwich, in a museum that could be using toys from the families that have lived in this house since the 14th century, but I don't know if this doll was a gift to the museum or not. any help give is much appreaciated. Alexandria ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Panniers question
Bjarne wrote It develloped trough the 1730ies and became the largest size in the 1740ies. It started to be a dome shaped pannier, became flattened and started to extend to the sides. Then in the 1760ies it grew smaller again, and ended up with bumrolls in 1770ies and 80ies. The french claims it is english invention, english vise versa. French story was that two english ladies walked in a park with huge panniers in a french park, and they started a fashion very quickly. The english version, i dont know. The wide pannier continued at the English court, as Court Dress, until the death of Queen Charlotte (well in to the 19th century) as it was her preference. I believe the Prince Regent hated the fashion, and as soon as his mother was dead, ordered that it should not be worn again. I do not have chapter and verse for his feelings, but I do have fashion plates of Regency style bodices, with panniers starting under the bust!! Suzi During my trip to England this past summer I happened upon a doll that I think dates to the late 17th, early 18th century, based upon the style of doll that it is. The doll was in a museum that didn't have a date on the doll and of course I was deep in a whole other project at the time and didn't ask if there was more information. So now that I need to get a better date if possible, I was hoping I could use the doll's clothing as a guide. She wears panniers- the huge at the side kind of bustle thing-it's not my period at all, so excuse me if I have that wrong. Can anyone give me beginning and end dates of when this style was worn in England?The doll itself is housed in Norwich, in a museum that could be using toys from the families that have lived in this house since the 14th century, but I don't know if this doll was a gift to the museum or not. any help give is much appreaciated. Alexandria ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] historical action figures
Naturally you tell us about this site AFTER we're finished shopping for the H-Cost gift exchange. A friend I were recently discussing who is sexier, Ben Franklin or Elvis... -Carol I make no claims about the costuming, but the concept is cute: http://www.mcphee.com/categories/action.html ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] RE: Chinese Mummies (was Humans in England, 700k years?)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, since the ethnic Chinese who discovered them and the locals in the area thought it was weird that the mummies were Caucasian, that's good enough for me. Glad to hear it. There are apparently plenty of Chinese records of the Tocharians being blond and red haired and blue eyed until the area was overrun by the Uighar (proto-Turkish) people in the 8th century. Since I can't read Chinese I can'g tell you that in fact the records actually SAY that, but that they are said to. While the Silk and Spice Roads were known to be in operation 1000 to 2000 years ago, finding these people in that area put the whole timeline of the area back several thousand years. I have the book and it makes it quite clear that the AGE of the finds was what they found remarkable- more recent Caucasian remains wouldn't have been as odd. Thank you, I have read the book. I have actually kept pretty current on the literature about the mumies from the whole Taklamakan/Tarim Basin area. ...Also, these folks appear to be from a Celtic/Proto-Celtic (in the broadest sense of Celtic, I'm not talking about Irish!) people judging from their fabric. The fabric was found with a clear twill weave, something that the Chinese didn't use. Of course in retrospect it's clear that some people went east instead of west in the migrations that brought the Celtic people all over the Eurasian continent, it's just that these finds were the first evidence that a Celtic people moved that far! The Tocharians are Celtic in the sense that the Romans, Greeks, and Hittites are celtic. To say they are celtic or even proto-celtic because of their fabrics suggests that no other Indo-European language peoples used those fabrics - and I'm pretty sure that we don't have the archaeological evidence to say that. It's a sexy over-simplication because people think Celts are cool and so by tying these folks to Celts means that they must be interesting to study as well. Marc ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Houppelande with tie fastenings
I don't know if the sleeve drape was like a lower circle sewn on, like you see on some young women's sleeves today, or if it was another sleeve like the angle-wing ones. This particular picture seems like it must be more like the circle-on-the-sleeve sort, but the TRH ones look a bit more like another big houp sleeve. FYI, there is a Italian (I think) style (a bit earlier then the time of the Tres Riche Hours) that has what looks like circles attached to/acting as the cuffs of the gothic fitted dress's sleeves. There is a picture in _Parades et Parures_ by Odile Blanc. (it's the front piece. For those of you who read French [not me] the description is: 1. La seduction detournant de l'etude. Alors que le corps feminin reste enclos dans une veture continue et monochrome, la parure masculine rend le corps a une diversite des formes et des couleurs. (I had to drop all the accents - I hope it's still decipherable) Elsewhere in the book it attributes the picture to Boccace, Des clereset nobles femmes. Page 59, 125, 173, 185 and 217 all show other pictures from the same manuscript (all of which give different views of the bell-cuffs. The last one shows a gothic fitted dress with the cuffs, without the houpelande). Page 193 also gives a picture of a long bell-cuff from a different manuscript, the Bible historiale, no author given. It is my believe that this is a separate style from the angle-wing under sleeves you see in Tres Riche. -sunny Following on the discussion of this link: http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/images/aria/sk/z/sk-c-1454.z P.S. 2: I can't seem to find a link to an illumination of Boccaccio, Concerning Famous Women on line (which is what I'm guessing the translation of Des clereset nobles femmes is) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Houppelande with tie fastenings
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: FYI, there is a Italian (I think) style (a bit earlier then the time of the Tres Riche Hours) that has what looks like circles attached to/acting as the cuffs of the gothic fitted dress's sleeves. There is a picture in _Parades et Parures_ by Odile Blanc. (it's the front piece. For those of you who read French [not me] the description is: 1. La seduction detournant de l'etude. Alors que le corps feminin reste enclos dans une veture continue et monochrome, la parure masculine rend le corps a une diversite des formes et des couleurs. (I had to drop all the accents - I hope it's still decipherable) Elsewhere in the book it attributes the picture to Boccace, Des clereset nobles femmes. Page 59, 125, 173, 185 and 217 all show other pictures from the same manuscript (all of which give different views of the bell-cuffs. The last one shows a gothic fitted dress with the cuffs, without the houpelande). Page 193 also gives a picture of a long bell-cuff from a different manuscript, the Bible historiale, no author given. *cool* Are any of these images online anywhere? Thanks! Susan It is my believe that this is a separate style from the angle-wing under sleeves you see in Tres Riche. -sunny Following on the discussion of this link: http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/images/aria/sk/z/sk-c-1454.z P.S. 2: I can't seem to find a link to an illumination of Boccaccio, Concerning Famous Women on line (which is what I'm guessing the translation of Des clereset nobles femmes is) I know that there's *some* Boccaccio on a BNF site, but I don't speak french, so I have *no* clue as to how to go about finding them. *sigh* Jerusha, the linquistically illiterate - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] historical action figures
Greetings-- McClure, Kate wrote: I had to snicker over this blurb from the Marie Antoinette doll, er figure: This 5-1/2 tall, hard vinyl figure features amazing Ejector Head Action, and comes with a removable plastic wig and dress. For the 13th century geek like me, the Pope Innocent III action figure is da bomb. Someone out there knew which pope was considered to have reigned at the apex of the medieval papacy, rather than just picking one of those trendy popes like Julian II. The best part is the little Latin scroll that comes with him, which is not translated anywhere on the packaging. It reads, in English, Kiss my a**, son of a Hohenstaufen. Susan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Houppelande with tie fastenings
I've been pondering the long, circle-ona-fitted-sleeve type of early 15thC sleeves for a while, and I've noticed... there doesn't seem to be any seam between the circly type part and the rest of the sleeve. In other words, NOT a circle sewn on, but rather a dramatic flare starting at the wrist. Has anyone seen a painting/illumination/etc that seems to indicate a seam there? For example, in the recently posted painting, there seems to be no disconnect in the fabric's pattern... it looks like it was cut all of a piece with the rest of the sleeve. -E House, ponders too much for her own good. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Houppelande with tie fastenings
Following on the discussion of this link: http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/images/aria/sk/z/sk-c-1454.z +++ (snip) For example, in the recently posted painting, there seems to be no disconnect in the fabric's pattern... it looks like it was cut all of a piece with the rest of the sleeve. -E House, ponders too much for her own good. = E.H., I don't think you can use the above as an example for your theory (which is quite good) because where the seam would be is covered by the houppe's dagging on her right and well the lefth...can someone make out what is on the gold lining near her hand? Looks like a poor seam stitching. Anyway that attachment to sleeve seam is covered if it was there. The Marie of Hungary dress http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/hungarian_cutting.jpg shows a conical piece attached to the sleeve. This does not mean that the previous picture's cuffs are made that way but are more like to have been. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Houppelande with tie fastenings
*cool* Are any of these images online anywhere? In my quick (~15 minutes) on-line search I didn't find anything. But I'm not very familiar with the on-line manuscript archives... My search was limited to goggling various terms. Sorry! I would've liked to have given links in my earlier e-mail rather then referring to page numbers in a fairly obscure book (at least obscure to us English speakers :-) ) I know that there's *some* Boccaccio on a BNF site, but I don't speak french, so I have *no* clue as to how to go about finding them. *sigh* It doesn't help that Boccaccio wrote in Italian, so I was attempting to come up with the English versions based on the translation from Italian into French and then trying to come up with the correct English term based on the French... Game of telephone, anyone? :-) The full attribution in the back of the book for the Boccaccio manuscript was: Paris, Bibliotheque nationale, ms. Fr. 598, Bocacce, Des cleres et nobles femmes, Paris, vers 1403, fol. 6v. The different pictures I referenced have different numbers for the Fr. 598 number, and different folio versions listed, though all have the 1403 date. -sunny P.S. for those of you seriously into the high middle ages, about half the pictures in _Parades et Parures_ were not ones I recognized. I've felt the book was well worth purchasing despite my inability to actually _read_ it :-). I got mine from amazon.fr ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] bells on garments
The whole houppelande discussion got me in the mood for something: I think I wanna wear a bunch of bells on a gown. At the hem, or maybe tiny bells all over, like spangles. Funfunfun. Cold medicine. I'm thinking late 14thC/early 15thC would be the right era for it, but I've never really looked into anything involving bells before. Anyone know of a style (other than houppes, which I just plain don't feel like making) that would work well with this? Any literary mentions of it? Illuminations/paintings? -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] bells on garments
E House wrote: The whole houppelande discussion got me in the mood for something: I think I wanna wear a bunch of bells on a gown. At the hem, or maybe tiny bells all over, like spangles. Funfunfun. Cold medicine. I'm thinking late 14thC/early 15thC would be the right era for it, but I've never really looked into anything involving bells before. Anyone know of a style (other than houppes, which I just plain don't feel like making) that would work well with this? Any literary mentions of it? Illuminations/paintings? In some 30 minutes or so my updated bells-with-garb page will be live. Its at http://www.virtue.to/articles/bells.html (If it doesn't have a picture of the Chaucer Squire at the top, it's the old version.) However, it doesn't directly address bells ON clothes, just bells WITH clothes. I don't think I've seen anything that looked like bells (or even bezants) on a hem. There were definitely instances of bezants all over one sleeve, and there's no reason you couldn't decide that they might have sometimes been bells. And sometimes they show up on the points of hoods, but not on the skirts, I think. As for houps vs. other, they do seem to be all houps, although some are the men's aren't my cheeks cute type of houp. The Museum of London Dress Accessories book has a number of citations, and you could check Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince for earlier. (Although I think I have looked there and found no bells.) -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] bells on garments
Maybe you could do a masque costume? (You know, you're in the 16th or 17th century, and the local high muckety-muck is having a fancy event, and people are encouraged to come in a costume--it'd be what someone *then* would think someone from the 14th/15th century would wear). Find some historical character, or biblical, or a saint associated with bells or something, and work from there? Or maybe, something based on the pre-Raphaelites? Lady of Shalot with little, tinkling bells on your sleeves, or Queen Mab, or something the littlest bit...fey...or romantic? ;o) --Sue, just tossing out ideas - Original Message - From: E House [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: [h-cost] bells on garments The whole houppelande discussion got me in the mood for something: I think I wanna wear a bunch of bells on a gown. At the hem, or maybe tiny bells all over, like spangles. Funfunfun. Cold medicine. I'm thinking late 14thC/early 15thC would be the right era for it, but I've never really looked into anything involving bells before. Anyone know of a style (other than houppes, which I just plain don't feel like making) that would work well with this? Any literary mentions of it? Illuminations/paintings? -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Houppelande with tie fastenings
No offense meant, but I just don't buy it. =} If the seam were far enough up to be concealed by the oversleeve, the whole look/drape would be changed. Even with really careful tailoring and stretching of the bias, a circle-on-a-tube type of sleeve just doesn't give the same shape as one that flares out right at the end. It just looks wrong. It'll take an extant garment or a clear image of the flared sleeve with a seam to convince me. Speaking of extant garments, I'm afraid the Mary of Hungary dress isn't enough, either! It's almost a century older than this painting and much more than a century older than some of the earlier renditions of this sleeve. And above all, it just plain looks nothing like the style of sleeve in question. There are mid-15thC paintings that show sleeves similar to the M of H sleeve, all stiff and structured. Why would they consistently portray the same type of sleeve two very very different ways? (That black stuff on the gold lining of her left sleeve doesn't look like stitching to me; it's repeated much lower down on the same lining portion, near the edge. It looks more like some characteristic of the fabric/fur; perhaps a variation on ermine patterning. The black spots on the edging of her right arm sleeve make it look to me like they are ermine lined, but given the aging it's hard to be sure. Either way, it's at the wrong place/angle to be stitching between circle and tube; it's at about a 45 degree angle to the edge of the sleeve's hem, which just wouldn't make sense. Of course, it doesn't make much sense for ermine, either, but anyway...) Sorry. I'm difficult, I know! =} Especially when I'm trying real hard to not come down with a cold... -E 'Zicam' House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] For the costumers
http://www.philosophersguild.com/index.lasso? page_mode=Product_Detailitem=0195 St. Sebastian pincushion... you know you want one. I know I do! griz = verybigdesign.com | verybigblog.com | pixeldecor.com | ohikea.com domeorama.com | medievalbeads.com | macmentor.org ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] For the costumers
griz wrote: St. Sebastian pincushion... you know you want one. I know I do! That's two for today. Thanks, -Helen/Aidan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] For the costumers
Oh how tacky. The things people create to sell. -Original Message- http://www.philosophersguild.com/index.lasso? page_mode=Product_Detailitem=0195 St. Sebastian pincushion... you know you want one. I know I do! griz ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] bells on garments
For some reason my system doesn't access the pictures as only three pictures show up and the rest are frames with a little box and red X in the upper left hand corner. De -Original Message- In some 30 minutes or so my updated bells-with-garb page will be live. Its at http://www.virtue.to/articles/bells.html (If it doesn't have a picture of the Chaucer Squire at the top, it's the old version.) Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent _ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] RE: Houppelande cuff was:with tie fastenings
-Original Message- No offense meant, but I just don't buy it. =} If the seam were far enough up to be concealed by the oversleeve, the whole look/drape would be changed. Even with really careful tailoring and stretching of the bias, a circle-on-a-tube type of sleeve just doesn't give the same shape as one that flares out right at the end. It just looks wrong. *disagree. I have seen medium weight linen, lined circular cuffs hang this way. But my argument was of the strong possibility of an attached cuff with the Maria of Hungary dress as an example that such a thing was done. I am more inclined to believe because of the economical way they usually cut fabric, that it was a conical shaped cuff then the circular. Your theory of no seam at wrist is more feasible then the circular attached cuff but not necessarily the conical attached cuff. (That black stuff on the gold lining of her left sleeve doesn't look like stitching to me; it's repeated much lower down on the same lining portion, near the edge. It looks more like some characteristic of the fabric/fur; perhaps a variation on ermine patterning. The black spots on the edging of her right arm sleeve make it look to me like they are ermine lined, but given the aging it's hard to be sure. Either way, it's at the wrong place/angle to be stitching between circle and tube; it's at about a 45 degree angle to the edge of the sleeve's hem, which just wouldn't make sense. Of course, it doesn't make much sense for ermine, either, but anyway...) -E 'Zicam' House Sorry I wasn't clear. I am not saying that the stitches are the cuff to sleeve seam but asking if it was a seam. Both stitch areas correlate to where seams would be on a straight sleeve. If these are seams, then it seems to strengthen to some point your argument for no wrist seam. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
