Re: [h-cost] tippets ... Fwd: [SCA-Garb] Nice gown! (Italian fresco)
I looked at the images and don't know what tippets are. Please explain. I googled it and found sites with shawls and scarves. What in the image is a tippet? - Original Message - From: Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Costume List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:21 PM Subject: [h-cost] tippets ... Fwd: [SCA-Garb] Nice gown! (Italian fresco) Hey Robin! From the SCA garb list ... Can I forward this to the H-Costume list where Robin Netherton hangs out? She's way interested in tippets. Jerusha Sure. Please tell her it was pointed out by John Dillion on the Medieval Religion List. I'm sure she'll recognise his name. Hrothny A fresco on the wall of the hexagonal baptistery of San Giovanni Battista (said to be originally ninth-cent., with fifteenth- and sixteenth-century frescoes) showing the marriage of St. Catherine of Sienna. http://www.microlanitalia.com/exe/turismoimg.htm?t=4k1=6k2=1 === It's Italian, but dig those tippets! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Byzantine Dress
On Feb 17, 2006, at 2:39 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone heard about this Byzantine Dress book, or its author, Jennifer Ball? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1403967008/103-0624918-7671817? v=glancen=283155 It seems to have just been published. I sure wish I could afford it, although it's slightly later than my precise period of interest. It's published by Palgrave, who tend to be well-represented on my bookshelves among academic publishers. I would assume that this is a bookification of someone's dissertation. (It's gone on my mental list of books to check out in the dealers' room at Kalamazoo -- I don't know that I'd buy it sight unseen.) Heather -- Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] tippets ... Fwd: [SCA-Garb] Nice gown! (Italian fresco)
Thanks. The search results I got didn't fit into the images. I saw the sleeve drapes and didn't know what they were called. I've been learning quite a bit from the discussion boards and costume constructions. - Original Message - From: Susan B. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] tippets ... Fwd: [SCA-Garb] Nice gown! (Italian fresco) Quoting Becky [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I looked at the images and don't know what tippets are. Please explain. I googled it and found sites with shawls and scarves. What in the image is a tippet? See those streamers coming from her upper arm? Those are tippets. If you do a google *image* search [put tippets in your search box, get your results, and then click on the image link above the search box] you'll get a page that shows some other gowns with tippets -- including this paperdoll site http://www.gallimauphry.com/PD/gawain/gawain.html and this Ready-To-Wear-Garb site http://www.revivalclothing.com/catpages/cat_womenssilkwardrobe.htm her tippets are white, and look like an add-on, but Robin's research indicates that this probably isn't the case. Susan http://www.microlanitalia.com/exe/turismoimg.htm?t=4k1=6k2=1 === It's Italian, but dig those tippets! - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] tippets ...
And while we're talking Italian Tippets . :-) I've got another picture for you, Robin. I just had to get it scanned -- and now seemed like a good time to do it! http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/milano_ExpulsionJoachim150.jpg these women are spectators, so I don't know how much the Special Garb rule applies here, but . The Italian GFD frequently has this sort of inverted scoop neckline -- I'm not exactly sure what you'd call it! some frescos from the Runklestein Castle http://www.myblog.de/costumes/page/86416 although it's not as evident on those gowns -- and think of those two with the funny panel down the front http://www.wga.hu/art/g/giottino/pieta.jpg http://www.wga.hu/art/g/giovanni/milano/birth.jpg both of whom have that others include http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/italian_MussacchioPl46.jpg http://tinyurl.com/dlmqd http://tinyurl.com/b2te7 and *she* has an off-center front-opening gown! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 10th - 11th C. German
On Friday 17 February 2006 12:11 am, Heather Rose Jones wrote: [snip] There isn't so much a problem with the neckline as that it's a rather unusually shaped neckline. The particular angle of the photograph is also not very good for seeing what's going on with the neck. Asymmetric side-opening necklines are quite common among the surviving garments of this era (what few there are). On Feb 17, 2006, at 12:29 AM, Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: OK, so I'm showing my ignorance, but why side-opening necklines? I'd think they'd be more difficult than symmetrical, center front openings. Sharon What follows is largely off-the-cuff speculation, but the answer is most likely to lie in how these openings developed historically. The most common neck opening configuration of the Roman Empire and sub- Roman era was a horizontal slit, sometimes with slight dishing on the front side of the opening. In garments woven in one piece on wide vertical looms, this slit could be created during the weaving complete with selveges (on the loom, it would be positioned vertically during weaving). Modifications to this neckline style in the early medieval period include a lot of things other than center-front slits, and seem to have developed from different motivations and for different purposes. Examples include: Narrowing the opening-as-worn by fastening the front and back edges together closer to the (wearer's) neck, as we see in the 8th century tunic associated with St. Ebbo, where there is a button-and-loop closure on each shoulder. A double layer of fabric in the body of the garment, with vertical slits in the layers on alternate sides of the neck, each fastening at the top, so that when closed the inner and outer fabrics overlap and there's no direct hole from the outside to the inside of the garment. This is seen in the very detailed technical drawings of the 11th c. Danish Viborg shirt and also appears to be the underlying construction in the 12th c. alb of William II of SIcily (another garment where the decorative parts are original but the garment has been re-made at various times). If you visualize enlarged neck openings developing from a horizontal- slit opening rather than a circular opening, then if you start the vertical slit at the side of the existing horizontal slit, you end up with only one corner to deal with, rather than the two corners you get if you position the vertical slit in center front. Also, a number of the early side-opening necklines incorporate a decorative vertical band as part of the slit, and garments of the early medieval period often already had a vertical decorative band approximately at the side of the neck opening, deriving from the clavii. Just a few thoughts on the topic. Heather -- Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Byzantine Dress
I have the book. It just came in last week and I haven't had a chance to read it yet. It's a small book without terribly many pictures. Not a dress or costume manual... much more into theory. Beth Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 17:39:18 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Byzantine Dress Has anyone heard about this Byzantine Dress book, or its author, Jennifer Ball? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1403967008/103-0624918-7671817?v=glancen=283155 It seems to have just been published. I sure wish I could afford it, although it's slightly later than my precise period of interest. Tea Rose ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question
Hi, Today I dyed silk for my 12th century bliaut. And it got a shokking salmon pink. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Bliautsilk.jpg I wonder if this would be right for that period. I dyed it with meekrap. I don't know the correct english name. It is a root that gives orange to red colour and was used in medieval times. And then put in water with a little ammonia sinse orange is really not a colour for me. But I am not totally sure if this is much better :-\ . I would love to hear other opinions. Greetings, Deredere ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question
Don't know about correct for your project, but the color looks pretty good on you! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deredere Galbraith Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 2:00 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question Hi, Today I dyed silk for my 12th century bliaut. And it got a shokking salmon pink. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Bliautsilk.jpg I wonder if this would be right for that period. I dyed it with meekrap. I don't know the correct english name. It is a root that gives orange to red colour and was used in medieval times. And then put in water with a little ammonia sinse orange is really not a colour for me. But I am not totally sure if this is much better :-\ . I would love to hear other opinions. Greetings, Deredere ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question
I have to agree with Betsy. The color is beautiful and looks great on you. If it were me I would go for it. Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- Betsy Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Betsy Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 14:08:33 -0600 To: 'Historical Costume' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question Don't know about correct for your project, but the color looks pretty good on you! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deredere Galbraith Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 2:00 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question Hi, Today I dyed silk for my 12th century bliaut. And it got a shokking salmon pink. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Bliautsilk.jpg I wonder if this would be right for that period. I dyed it with meekrap. I don't know the correct english name. It is a root that gives orange to red colour and was used in medieval times. And then put in water with a little ammonia sinse orange is really not a colour for me. But I am not totally sure if this is much better :- . I would love to hear other opinions. Greetings, Deredere ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Netscape. just the net you need ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question
Quoting Deredere Galbraith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Today I dyed silk for my 12th century bliaut. And it got a shokking salmon pink. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Bliautsilk.jpg I wonder if this would be right for that period. I think that the color is gorgeous! I dyed it with meekrap. I don't know the correct english name. Do you know what the latin name is? I can translate! :-S Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question
Hi, Today I dyed silk for my 12th century bliaut. And it got a shokking salmon pink. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Bliautsilk.jpg I wonder if this would be right for that period. I dyed it with meekrap. I don't know the correct english name. That sounds like madder root. It is a root that gives orange to red colour and was used in medieval times. And then put in water with a little ammonia sinse orange is really not a colour for me. But I am not totally sure if this is much better :-\ . I would love to hear other opinions. Which chemical mordant did you use? Mordants are things like alum, nickel, iron, and I forget the last one. You put the mordant into the dye bath and each chemical gives a different shade of red-orange. You can also pre-treat the cloth with a bath of the mordant and then dye it separately. You can look up which one gives a more red color and try re-dying it with that. There are some good books about natural dyes that you can either order or find in your library. And there are some places online that sell the dye items and mordants that you would need. Sorry I can't tell you any specific books or websitesI haven't done natural dyeing in years! And I agree that the orange isn't a bad color for you. Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question
I think the plant you are referring to is known as madder in English. I've gotten colors similar to yours in my madder dyeing. It's pretty pH and temperature sensitive. I'm afraid I don't know enough about 12th century costume (and colors thereof) to be able to tell you about the historical accuracy of the color for that kind of gown, though. ;o( --Sue - Original Message - From: Deredere Galbraith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 12:59 PM Subject: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question Hi, Today I dyed silk for my 12th century bliaut. And it got a shokking salmon pink. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Bliautsilk.jpg I wonder if this would be right for that period. I dyed it with meekrap. I don't know the correct english name. It is a root that gives orange to red colour and was used in medieval times. And then put in water with a little ammonia sinse orange is really not a colour for me. But I am not totally sure if this is much better :-\ . I would love to hear other opinions. Greetings, Deredere ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question
In a message dated 2/18/2006 3:26:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And it got a shokking salmon pink. Well, you may have been shocked, but I think the salmon pick looks divine! It beautiful. It doesn't look too saturated to not be period. It looks great! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question
Quoting Deredere Galbraith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Today I dyed silk for my 12th century bliaut. And it got a shokking salmon pink. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Bliautsilk.jpg I wonder if this would be right for that period. I dyed it with meekrap. I don't know the correct english name. google is my friend. Looks like Rubia tinctorum -- aka Madder. Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] 10th - 11th C. German
Thanks! That makes a lot of sense. Sharon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Heather Rose Jones Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 10:07 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 10th - 11th C. German On Friday 17 February 2006 12:11 am, Heather Rose Jones wrote: [snip] There isn't so much a problem with the neckline as that it's a rather unusually shaped neckline. The particular angle of the photograph is also not very good for seeing what's going on with the neck. Asymmetric side-opening necklines are quite common among the surviving garments of this era (what few there are). On Feb 17, 2006, at 12:29 AM, Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: OK, so I'm showing my ignorance, but why side-opening necklines? I'd think they'd be more difficult than symmetrical, center front openings. Sharon What follows is largely off-the-cuff speculation, but the answer is most likely to lie in how these openings developed historically. The most common neck opening configuration of the Roman Empire and sub- Roman era was a horizontal slit, sometimes with slight dishing on the front side of the opening. In garments woven in one piece on wide vertical looms, this slit could be created during the weaving complete with selveges (on the loom, it would be positioned vertically during weaving). Modifications to this neckline style in the early medieval period include a lot of things other than center-front slits, and seem to have developed from different motivations and for different purposes. Examples include: Narrowing the opening-as-worn by fastening the front and back edges together closer to the (wearer's) neck, as we see in the 8th century tunic associated with St. Ebbo, where there is a button-and-loop closure on each shoulder. A double layer of fabric in the body of the garment, with vertical slits in the layers on alternate sides of the neck, each fastening at the top, so that when closed the inner and outer fabrics overlap and there's no direct hole from the outside to the inside of the garment. This is seen in the very detailed technical drawings of the 11th c. Danish Viborg shirt and also appears to be the underlying construction in the 12th c. alb of William II of SIcily (another garment where the decorative parts are original but the garment has been re-made at various times). If you visualize enlarged neck openings developing from a horizontal- slit opening rather than a circular opening, then if you start the vertical slit at the side of the existing horizontal slit, you end up with only one corner to deal with, rather than the two corners you get if you position the vertical slit in center front. Also, a number of the early side-opening necklines incorporate a decorative vertical band as part of the slit, and garments of the early medieval period often already had a vertical decorative band approximately at the side of the neck opening, deriving from the clavii. Just a few thoughts on the topic. Heather -- Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question
Rose madder? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deredere Galbraith Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 12:00 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question Hi, Today I dyed silk for my 12th century bliaut. And it got a shokking salmon pink. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Bliautsilk.jpg I wonder if this would be right for that period. I dyed it with meekrap. I don't know the correct english name. It is a root that gives orange to red colour and was used in medieval times. And then put in water with a little ammonia sinse orange is really not a colour for me. But I am not totally sure if this is much better :-\ . I would love to hear other opinions. Greetings, Deredere ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question
It may be a period color. Check out tapestries and/or carpets from that time. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sue Clemenger Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 1:02 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question I think the plant you are referring to is known as madder in English. I've gotten colors similar to yours in my madder dyeing. It's pretty pH and temperature sensitive. I'm afraid I don't know enough about 12th century costume (and colors thereof) to be able to tell you about the historical accuracy of the color for that kind of gown, though. ;o( --Sue - Original Message - From: Deredere Galbraith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 12:59 PM Subject: [h-cost] Bliaut silk natural dyed colour question Hi, Today I dyed silk for my 12th century bliaut. And it got a shokking salmon pink. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade2/tijdelijk/Bliautsilk.jpg I wonder if this would be right for that period. I dyed it with meekrap. I don't know the correct english name. It is a root that gives orange to red colour and was used in medieval times. And then put in water with a little ammonia sinse orange is really not a colour for me. But I am not totally sure if this is much better :-\ . I would love to hear other opinions. Greetings, Deredere ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
-Original Message- http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/milano_ExpulsionJoachim150.jpg (Susan) these women are spectators, so I don't know how much the Special Garb rule applies here, but . The Italian GFD frequently has this sort of inverted scoop neckline -- I'm not exactly sure what you'd call it! De - Is that trim on the hem of the dress or an underdress with a short overdress. Left shoulder, is that a cloak which the woman has pulled around to the right and is using it to cradle the lamb? I think that the bust may be a factor in the arching. (Susan)-- and think of those two with the funny panel down the front http://www.wga.hu/art/g/giottino/pieta.jpg http://www.wga.hu/art/g/giovanni/milano/birth.jpg both of whom have that De- I can not tell real well but this looks like this dress has a red front panel with striped material for the rest of the dress. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/hitomi_gehrig/14th%20Century/Roncolo6 .gif ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -Original Message- http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/milano_ExpulsionJoachim150.jpg (Susan) these women are spectators, so I don't know how much the Special Garb rule applies here, but . The Italian GFD frequently has this sort of inverted scoop neckline -- I'm not exactly sure what you'd call it! De - Is that trim on the hem of the dress or an underdress with a short overdress. Left shoulder, is that a cloak which the woman has pulled around to the right and is using it to cradle the lamb? I think that the bust may be a factor in the arching. I have *no* clue. IIRC, there are a couple of short overdresses on some of the painted birthing trays. They definately have some sort of scarf over their arms and under the lambs -- but that striped fabric on the back of her sleeve just doesn't fit. If it was a cloak, seems like it should not follow her neckline like it does. The right shoulders of all the women are dark like maybe there is a cloak over that shoulder. Whatever the striped fabric is, it seen on the underdress, the scarf under the lambs, and on the back of her left arm. I sure would like to see what other frescoes there are at the Runuccini Chapel in the Sacristy somewhere in Florence! One of the other ladies in the birth painting (URL below) also has on a shorter overdress with a striped underdress. (Susan)-- and think of those two with the funny panel down the front http://www.wga.hu/art/g/giottino/pieta.jpg http://www.wga.hu/art/g/giovanni/milano/birth.jpg both of whom have that De- I can not tell real well but this looks like this dress has a red front panel with striped material for the rest of the dress. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/hitomi_gehrig/14th%20Century/Roncolo6 .gif Isn't that one just wild! It almost looks like it could be a 10-gore gown with each gore a different color! -- and the *only* reason that I make that outlandish statement, is that the stripes appear wider around her hips than they do her neckline. Yep, Italian wierdness. It's not as d as some of the Flemish stuff that you run across though! Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
I hadn't thought of gores but I think you may be on to something here. This would solve some peoples problems with not having enough fabric of one color. :) I thought that the dress has a front panel because of the white dots running down the seam. I haven't seen the weird flemish stuff. Got pictures? :) De -Original Message- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/hitomi_gehrig/14th%20Century/Roncolo6 .gif Isn't that one just wild! It almost looks like it could be a 10-gore gown with each gore a different color! -- and the *only* reason that I make that outlandish statement, is that the stripes appear wider around her hips than they do her neckline. Yep, Italian wierdness. It's not as d as some of the Flemish stuff that you run across though! Susan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I hadn't thought of gores but I think you may be on to something here. This would solve some peoples problems with not having enough fabric of one color. :) It would be a hoot to do -- and you could carry that picture around with you and say -- see! here it is -- wierd Italian garb! :-) I thought that the dress has a front panel because of the white dots running down the seam. I thought that they were buttons! I haven't seen the weird flemish stuff. Got pictures? :) Of course! Think about Anne of Cleves dress. If all you knew was English Tudor, you'd swear that was a Fantasy/Allegorical gown. One thing that you see quite a bit in Flemish garb -- that may very well be allegorical is the overbodice -- you know like that thing that the Victorians thought was a part of a bliaut? Take the Genealogies of the Kings of Portugal -- symbolic in all probability, but the elements show up a *lot* http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/620/62082_2.jpg my favorite. This was on the cover of the Museum Catalog from the Getty on Flemish Illuminations. Dig the lady in the powder blue dress with overbodice a little over halfway down on the right of the image. http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/bening_04c_DomFernandoDetail.jpg and on this folio http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/240/24052_2.jpg and detail http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/bening_05starD_QualityDetail2.jpg http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/34/3463_2.jpg http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/122/12252_2.jpg Virgin with Saints (Barbara Catherine of Alexandria) http://www.wga.hu/art/b/benson/lou_135.jpg yet another saint -- left panel of triptych http://tinyurl.com/a2z4t and one of my personal favorites -- dig the pink 3 piece suit on the saint in the right panel http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/2/05adorat.jpg Elijah the Widow of Zarapeth -- dig the sleeves http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/1/04adora2.jpg again symbolic/allegrical, but you got 4 normal gowns and that odd thing in the lower left http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/flemish_CharlesBold.jpg Have I overloaded your Wierd Meter yet? :-D Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/34/3463_2.jpg This on has long been my favorite. I have been sketching and searching and sketching these dresses for years hoping to find the right event to make one for. Sigh, and the time. :( Thank you for the new images!!! :) Chiara - Original Message - From: Susan B. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 11:01 PM Subject: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ... Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I hadn't thought of gores but I think you may be on to something here. This would solve some peoples problems with not having enough fabric of one color. :) It would be a hoot to do -- and you could carry that picture around with you and say -- see! here it is -- wierd Italian garb! :-) I thought that the dress has a front panel because of the white dots running down the seam. I thought that they were buttons! I haven't seen the weird flemish stuff. Got pictures? :) Of course! Think about Anne of Cleves dress. If all you knew was English Tudor, you'd swear that was a Fantasy/Allegorical gown. One thing that you see quite a bit in Flemish garb -- that may very well be allegorical is the overbodice -- you know like that thing that the Victorians thought was a part of a bliaut? Take the Genealogies of the Kings of Portugal -- symbolic in all probability, but the elements show up a *lot* http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/620/62082_2.jpg my favorite. This was on the cover of the Museum Catalog from the Getty on Flemish Illuminations. Dig the lady in the powder blue dress with overbodice a little over halfway down on the right of the image. http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/bening_04c_DomFernandoDetail.jpg and on this folio http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/240/24052_2.jpg and detail http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/bening_05starD_QualityDetail2.jpg http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/34/3463_2.jpg http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/122/12252_2.jpg Virgin with Saints (Barbara Catherine of Alexandria) http://www.wga.hu/art/b/benson/lou_135.jpg yet another saint -- left panel of triptych http://tinyurl.com/a2z4t and one of my personal favorites -- dig the pink 3 piece suit on the saint in the right panel http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/2/05adorat.jpg Elijah the Widow of Zarapeth -- dig the sleeves http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/1/04adora2.jpg again symbolic/allegrical, but you got 4 normal gowns and that odd thing in the lower left http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/flemish_CharlesBold.jpg Have I overloaded your Wierd Meter yet? :-D Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] modes and manners
Hi, Anybody know of the etiquette for 18th century. When a man is presented to a lady, and he kisses her hand, does he then actually kis the hand, or does he just pretend that he is kissing the hand? I have done both, but not sure wich is correct. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
