Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle, air filter hat
At 07:49 AM 3/1/2006, you wrote: I recently came across this excellent web page covering both of these subjects: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/15th/ Thank you Tea Rose for that. I am not as familiar with images or styles of the century preceding, so that is a great help. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth}
At 01:54 AM 3/1/2006, you wrote: I realise these are not 16th century, but short sleeves kirtles were obviously worn earlier, so is it possibly that the fashion could have continued in the later period? Suzi Thank you Suzi for sharing those links. I can only presume that such fashions would continue and evolve into the next century, but I don't know how much of a leap that really is. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Redwork
It's also reproduced in The Art of Dress, where it's attributed to a follower of Hans Eworth. No explanation is offered for the inscription Maria Regina. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/03/2006 07:00 At 07:41 AM 2/28/2006, you wrote: Mistress Aspasia, do you (or anybody else for that matter) know more about the painting that this detail is from? I would have to research it and right now my husband is creating a series of internet classes for St. Leo University. I have to sneak in time to even check my email. I know the lady is 16th c. English...I think the Countess of Hardwick. The others I will have to check. I have care of 3 yr old and 6 yr old foster daughters that I have to keep a close eye on, so can't get too distracted when I'm alone with them. I will try. Maybe someone else can find them sooner. Aspasia Moonwind The sitter is the Elizabeth, Lady Cavendish, later the Countess of Shrewsbury (better known as Bess of Hardwick). The portrait is dated c. 1557. There is a lovely reproduction of it on page 8 of Elizabethan Treasures: The Hardwick Hall Textiles by Santina M. Levey. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth
I have written to her. She answered me quickly and said I could ask anytime. I just thought I'd pose a question to other costumers on the discussion boards. It really doesn't matter, but I can make the Princess Elizabeth garb now with confidence. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 8:31 PM Subject: Re: RE: [h-cost] Princess Elizabeth Question (sort of) - if you have a query about something on Ninya's site, why don't you e-mail her and ask? Only say that cos I've seen questions about my own stuff on assorted lists before and felt the need to point out that they could have just asked me...:-) Debs ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists
Cynthia Virtue wrote: The waist would be a horizontal oval intersecting those points, right? Not a shape which dips down from the horizontal while intersecting those points. I have to roll the front waistband of off-the-rack skirts so that the hem hangs horizontal because of this. If I had the time, I'd hem the skirts properly. If you really want the skirts to hang properly do as the women of the victorian age did and take the excess off of the top of the skirt and not the bottom. That way the grainline is still horizontal at the bottom and the excess is taken off of the top, where the problem is... This keeps the vertical grainline straight all around. Kitty in SW PA USA ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists
Megan M. wrote: I think it is more common than you think - I have the same issue. The waistbands on my scrubs come up almost to my bra in front. And I don't know why they cut them so high. *sigh* I guess that's why I like to sew. -Megan for most of us it isn't the clothing which is cut high. it is our waists which have fallen in front. It happens when we have a bit to much tissue in front and weak stomach muscles allow it to fall, it creates a sway back which allows the waist to point downward in front. Kitty, who has done too many alterations for this problem. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth}
Is it possible that the lines are woven into the fabric? After all, her sleeve fabric has very elaborate flowered scroll designs. I have *no* clue! It's rows of alternating trapezoids -- /\/\/\/\ is the apparrent arrangement of the pieces It's quite likely the shapes are caused by the fur lining. The fur would have to be pieced.Why they show through who knows. This was discussed somewhere.. I think the MedCos community. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/272 - Release Date: 1/03/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth}
At 20:20 01/03/2006, you wrote: Quoting Sharon at Collierfam.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Is it possible that the lines are woven into the fabric? After all, her sleeve fabric has very elaborate flowered scroll designs. I have *no* clue! It's rows of alternating trapezoids -- /\/\/\/\ is the apparrent arrangement of the pieces Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ That isn't the impression I got standing in front of it for ages last summer - it seemed almost to be a heavy wool type fabric. I longed to ask her to step down from the painting a minute and let me see. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth}
Uh...I don't think it's a matter of cabbaging, if that's a word? ;o) I bet
it's indicative of a fur lining. Several other paintings on that website
depict fur-lined gowns/skirts, and have similar lines on the skirts. We've
talked about something similar before (the painting's one of the ones on the
website, which is what made me think hmmm.I wonder
--sue (from montana)
- Original Message -
From: Susan B. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth}
Quoting Hope Greenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I agree with you about that multi-panel skirt--fascinating! Here's a
bit of a close-up:
http://www.uvm.edu/%7Ehag/sca/15th/weyden2.jpg
I've always liked that one. Looks like it was made from The Remnant Bag
[funny, how all the pieces look alike instead of patchwork! :-)] It
would be an interesting exercise to do some math on that painting and
come up with a size for those little trapezoids! Let's see, there's
2.5 from her waist to her knee so that puts them in the 6-8 tall
range. Reckon that this skirt *was* produced from the cabbage?
Though I don't have scans of them, there are a couple non-Italian
15th cent. depictions of women in sleeveless gowns. One was either
Netherlandish or German--a woman attending the birth of the Virgin
Mary--but I'll have to go look it up.
You'll have to let us know what the paintings are when you get the
information -- they may be online somewher!
Susan
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[h-cost] Partly OT: Stains on table linen
My mother has had to go into a nursing home and I'm clearing her house. I've found numerous tablecloths and napkins, some quite old and interesting, a lot of which have food stains on. I've washed them with Vanish (if you don't have that in the US, it's a new oxygen-based stain remover) but it doesn't get everything out. I don't want to bleach antique or coloured items. Suggestions, anyone? Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists
Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: At 02:12 PM 6/28/2005 -0400, you wrote: snip I have to roll the front waistband of off-the-rack skirts so that the hem hangs horizontal because of this. If I had the time, I'd hem the skirts properly. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent You know, you're the first person I've ever heard of that has that problem, like me. I cannot buy trousers to fit, the waistband sits in the correct place in the back half of me but I have to fold over the top of the front of the trousers. Usually at least by the width of the waistband, sometimes more. Cheers, Danielle If there are no rivets at the waistband, take the waistband off at the front, cut the front down the appropriate amount at the CF tapering to nothing at the sides, and reapply the waistband. you may have to ease a bit of excess fabric in or make pleats on each side, but fabric, being made of threads, usually is fairly easy to ease in, (work extra fabric into a seam so it doesn't show that there is extra fabric on one side of the seam compared to the other). Kitty ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The Prado Magdalen's skirt (was: short sleeved kirtle)
Quoting Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, 1 Mar 2006, Susan B. Farmer wrote: I have *no* clue! It's rows of alternating trapezoids -- /\/\/\/\ is the apparrent arrangement of the pieces Actually, the trapezoids do not alternate. They are all placed with the short side up, so that they contribute to the flare of the skirt. (This is much clearer in person, on the painting, than in any reproduction.) The trapezoidal shape becomes less pronounced further down the skirt, where the shapes are both larger and closer to rectangular. You know, of course, that you're right! I looked again. I'm thinking that Ive got a book that has a Really Good Copy of that painting, but I'm not finding it. I'm pretty sure that it's in the book on Campin. The authors (Thurleman -- u with an umlaut) present their case that it's actually Campin and not Weyden that is the painter here. If you're an Or Nue fan -- it is believed that Campin did the cartoons for the Vestments for the Order of the Golden Fleece -- and there are some **AWESOME** enlargements in this book of some of those figures. We have had long discussions of this on the list before ... let's see, here's a post I wrote on July 26, 2002: Cool! Thanks for the links. That was before I joined this list. Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Non-Elizabethan Tudor Corset a Myth! (was PrincessElizabeth)
At 09:53 AM 3/1/2006, you wrote: Well, this is going to be the short version! I have a room full of new cloth and I want to go sew now! =} Hey, I don't blame you. I hope you got in some good sewing time. snip some great info. Thanks Hope this helps. You can distribute it/use it for teaching, but please keep my name attached! Elena House I really appreciate your time in explaining all of that. It's a lot to digest, but I am ok with that. I eagerly await your long version when you have the time. And I will check the The Corset: A Cultural History by Valerie Steele book. I already have Corsets Crinolines, and will re-read it (which I haven't done in a long while). And I will definitely give you credits in my lecture. Thank you again, Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: Quality of clothing
Sandy- Tell them you don't like the change. Can't hurt and they might actually listen to a customer. Susan Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for. - Ride the Dark Trail by Louis L'Amour On Mar 2, 2006, at 12:34 AM, Pierre Sandy Pettinger wrote: I shoulda known that my ASCII art would get messed up in translation. Oh, well. I have about 8 pairs of the Land's End cotton knit pants. Love them. I've totally worn out at least 5 pair. Or, I DID love them, till they changed the sizing. Now even the talls are too short and the crotch length is too - I hate it when the pants are hip-huggers when they're not supposed to be. Sandy At 01:45 AM 2/28/2006, you wrote: Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 23:12:22 -0500 From: Catherine Olanich Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] sizing/quality of clothing I'm 5' 1, and I've always had the same problem with pants until Lands' End changed its sizing. :-) Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 20:17:47 -0800 From: Sharon at Collierfam.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [h-cost] sizing/quality of clothing Ditto. When I was in high school I had a 24 waist and 40 hips. Thank goodness I've found Lands End. They have cotton knit, elastic waist pants, in petite and tall, too. Sharon Those Who Fail To Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly -- Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm The Illusion of Historical Fact -- C.Y. 4971 Andromeda ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap
I was disappointed that, among all these images of the Phrygian or liberty cap, Google did NOT find the college seal of my alma mater, Dickinson College (est. 1773, Carlisle, PA). Our seal has three objects: a telescope, a Bible, and the Phrygian cap, along with the motto that we are the fortress of liberty! http://www.dickinson.edu/logo/faq10.html Costume-related: Is Dickinson the only college with an article of clothing in its heraldry? --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer Dickinson Class of '68 -Original Message- From: Susan B. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mar 2, 2006 12:03 AM To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap Quoting Kathryn Parke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) google image search is your friend http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10hl=enlr=q=phrygian+hatbtnG=Search Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Redwork
Quoting Kate M Bunting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It's also reproduced in The Art of Dress, where it's attributed to a follower of Hans Eworth. No explanation is offered for the inscription Maria Regina. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/03/2006 07:00 At 07:41 AM 2/28/2006, you wrote: Mistress Aspasia, do you (or anybody else for that matter) know more about the painting that this detail is from? ^^ Oops, sorry; yall misunderstood -- I meant the *detail* of the painting where Christ is carrying the cross is from. The other two were full portraits, so I made the obviously invalid assumption that the word detail would be enough information. My bad. Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] short sleeved kirtle {was Princess Elizabeth}
On Thu, 2 Mar 2006, michaela wrote: It's quite likely the shapes are caused by the fur lining. The fur would have to be pieced.Why they show through who knows. This was discussed somewhere.. I think the MedCos community. No, here; see my note under a new subject line. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Waists, waists, waists
Greetings-- Danielle Nunn-Weinberg wrote: At 02:12 PM 6/28/2005 -0400, you wrote: snip I have to roll the front waistband of off-the-rack skirts so that the hem hangs horizontal because of this. If I had the time, I'd hem the skirts properly. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent You know, you're the first person I've ever heard of that has that problem, like me. I cannot buy trousers to fit, the waistband sits in the correct place in the back half of me but I have to fold over the top of the front of the trousers. Usually at least by the width of the waistband, sometimes more. What's been a lifesaver for me lately are the pants they're selling with the lowered waistbands. I'm not talking hip-huggers---I've found that the Ann and Marisa styles at Ann Taylor Loft, both of which are cut slightly below the natural waist, fit me wonderfully and take care of that rolling waistband issue. Susan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Partly OT: Stains on table linen
Kate M Bunting wrote: My mother has had to go into a nursing home and I'm clearing her house. I've found numerous tablecloths and napkins, some quite old and interesting, a lot of which have food stains on. I've washed them with Vanish (if you don't have that in the US, it's a new oxygen-based stain remover) but it doesn't get everything out. I don't want to bleach antique or coloured items. Suggestions, anyone? Hydrogen peroxide is pretty mild, but if the oxy-stuff didn't work you may not have luck with this either. Tried sun-bleaching it? Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] slightly O-T greetings of the (passing) season
Hello the list-- My truelove has kindly given me parking space on his website for the photo I took after our FIRST snowfall of the season and intended as a greeting card for the h-cost list. Today we're having what MIGHT be the last snowfall of the season. Who would expect in a modest little neighborhood in Fairfield Connecticut to drive around the corner and find a pair of snowpersons one of whom was wearing a HENNIN? I assume a little girl wanted to give her Hallowe'en costume one more day to shineAnyway, with the homeowner's permission I took a photo of Snow Maiden and Swain. Go to http://www.doingagatha.com/ and scroll down to the photo at the lower left, just over the Out of Pocket Productions paragraph. He'll keep this on the page for a week or so, and I hope you see and enjoy it. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer p.s. Doing Agatha is an independent film written and produced by my truelove and soon (oh god please!) to be released. We are NOT using the h-cost list to promote the film; I don't have a website of my own to post pictures. Of course I do imagine you'll be amused and fascinated by the costuming in the film photo RAB ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Fit of a victorian bodice
Hi, I'm making an 1865-70 bodice (first bustle era) starting from the Truly Victorian ball bodice pattern, and I'm having trouble with the fit around the armholes -- there's a horizontal stress line about 1/2 above the bottom of the armhole (right at the top of my corset) it extends about 3 into the bust, and about the same length across the back. I'm not sure how to get rid of it -- the rest of the bodice fits beautifully... I also had this problem on my princess-line tea gown using their pattern... But I thought it was due to the weight of the fabric, but that can't be the case for my current bodice... Does anyone have any suggestions for how to handle this fitting problem? Should I make the armhole bigger (and if so, should it be lower side front, lower side back, or the bottom? I'm afraid if I widen the armhole it'll just pull the armhole out of shape due to the pull...) should I let the side seam out a little bit? I thought about putting padding inside the bodice ther! e, but there is very little room... And the bodice is satin so it shows every little crinkle or dent - unfortunately you can even follow the line of the lace on the chemise if you look closely. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thank you, -sunny ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] re: Partly OT: Stains on table linen
My mother has had to go into a nursing home and I'm clearing her house. I've found numerous tablecloths and napkins, some quite old and interesting, a lot of which have food stains on. I've washed them with Vanish (if you don't have that in the US, it's a new oxygen-based stain remover) but it doesn't get everything out. I don't want to bleach antique or coloured items. Suggestions, anyone? Kate I collect, some whom I live with, would say amass vintage linens, quilts unmentionables. Mostly I use baby soap, or whatever you wash your favorite sweaters in. If really done in, a gentle bleaching detergent. Air dry. Repeat until happy. When you finally get it clean enough, hot press those beautiful crisp folds store them away. I would start with the gentlest treatment first on the most replaceable or hopeless item. See what happens. Work your way up to gentle, warm water the oxy cleaner. You will probably never get the foxing out (those rust colored stains). Foxing can be caused by contact with acidic stuff (like wood, common paper and food debris) among other things. No sure how old quite old is but if really, really old, then you might want to stop at the cold, clear water rinse or cold water gentlest soap so that colors dont run. Truly magnificent items should be taken to a professional. My spare mom gave me two heavily embroidered unused gigantic table cloths, buffet cloth each with 12 napkins each all with the original gift card as given to her mother. She said, My mother stored this for 40 years. I have stored it for 40 years. Now it's your turn. I havent dared use it, but if I do, it's to serve white wine, dry foods with brush-away crumbs, no grease and it goes to the pros afterwards. grin To prevent or postpone future foxing, line your linen storage in buffered papers. I just use an old cotton sheet as the bottom layer in my cedar closet. Some items are truly hopelessly stained, moth eaten or torn and I'm not above recycling them into something else like a supportasse collar or petticoat. I have one of each made from a previous pillow case table linen respectively. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] re: Partly OT: Stains on table linen
I just ran down to the basement to copy the label for this product-- I've had good luck with it but have used it on only two pieces, so I can't say I've done exhaustive testing! It's called RESTORATION, and it claims Revives color and freshness to antique linens...removes most stains. Manufactured by Engleside Products of Lancaster, PA. No acids, chlorine, or phosphates. Safe for all fabrics and colors. Environmentally safe. I followed the directions on the label and was pleased with the results. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -Original Message- From: Cin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mar 2, 2006 2:19 PM To: h-cost [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] re: Partly OT: Stains on table linen My mother has had to go into a nursing home and I'm clearing her house. I've found numerous tablecloths and napkins, some quite old and interesting, a lot of which have food stains on. I've washed them with Vanish (if you don't have that in the US, it's a new oxygen-based stain remover) but it doesn't get everything out. I don't want to bleach antique or coloured items. Suggestions, anyone? Kate I collect, some whom I live with, would say amass vintage linens, quilts unmentionables. Mostly I use baby soap, or whatever you wash your favorite sweaters in. If really done in, a gentle bleaching detergent. Air dry. Repeat until happy. When you finally get it clean enough, hot press those beautiful crisp folds store them away. I would start with the gentlest treatment first on the most replaceable or hopeless item. See what happens. Work your way up to gentle, warm water the oxy cleaner. You will probably never get the foxing out (those rust colored stains). Foxing can be caused by contact with acidic stuff (like wood, common paper and food debris) among other things. No sure how old quite old is but if really, really old, then you might want to stop at the cold, clear water rinse or cold water gentlest soap so that colors dont run. Truly magnificent items should be taken to a professional. My spare mom gave me two heavily embroidered unused gigantic table cloths, buffet cloth each with 12 napkins each all with the original gift card as given to her mother. She said, My mother stored this for 40 years. I have stored it for 40 years. Now it's your turn. I havent dared use it, but if I do, it's to serve white wine, dry foods with brush-away crumbs, no grease and it goes to the pros afterwards. grin To prevent or postpone future foxing, line your linen storage in buffered papers. I just use an old cotton sheet as the bottom layer in my cedar closet. Some items are truly hopelessly stained, moth eaten or torn and I'm not above recycling them into something else like a supportasse collar or petticoat. I have one of each made from a previous pillow case table linen respectively. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] re: Partly OT: Stains on table linen
In a message dated 3/2/2006 2:26:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I havent dared use it, but if I do, it's to serve white wine, dry foods with brush-away crumbs, no grease and it goes to the pros afterwards. grin I would stick to sparkling water--even white wine can stain! Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] re: Partly OT: Stains on table linen
Cin wrote: To prevent or postpone future foxing, line your linen storage in buffered papers. I just use an old cotton sheet as the bottom layer in my cedar closet. I have two hopeless linen table cloths that I use to wrap the non-hopless ones in while storing them. liz young ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Partly OT: Stains on table linen
Sometimes the discoloration is actually a chemical change of the fibers, so nothing will change it. But, by all means, try sun bleaching. If all else fails, can you cut around the stained parts to make things--women's undergarments, for example. Ann ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Goldwork
On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:45:55 -0600, E House [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know of any good resources for learning about the authentic stuff? Any suggestions for modern books that might help me with technique? If you want one book that covers just about everything there is to cover except patterns; Metal thread embroidery by Jane Lemon Batsford (March 28, 2005) ISBN 071348926X It covers historical and modern stitches, thread, techniques,equipment,photoes of extant pieces including Elisabethan and more. I have bought others, but this is the one I keep returning to. And the only one I've found truly useful for historical goldwork anytime within my period of interest(1200-1670). Some websites worth looking at ; Or Nue http://medieval.webcon.net.au/technique_or_nue.html Or Nue (Shaded Gold) http://www.advancenet.net/jscole/ornue.html And a brief introduction to historical goldwork; All that glitters... http://www.bayrose.org/wkneedle/Articles/Goldwork.html Gunvor -- Jeg har sagt ja og nei og DA får du lov Anders (nesten 4 år) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: body shaping (was corset myth)
Elena House wrote: The whole garment is a solution to a specific body-shaping problem; a problem which has been solved in different ways over the centuries, and which must be solved in different ways the desired body shape changes over time. In the 13thC, the solution was breast-wrapping; in the 14th, it was the GFD; in the 15th, it was both a later version of the GFD and an early version of the bodice-skirt kirtle; in the early 16th, it was the vasquine and farthingale; in the late 16th, it was the payre of bodyes and farthingale. Both your replies to the original query were fascinating! I loved all the quotes. But now I am interested in a different item listed above. When you say that in the 13th century the solution to desired body shaping was breast wrapping, what exactly do you mean? I'm sure they did something, but I am not familiar with this. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Goldwork
The book I have is called Goldwork by Search Press. It has some history in it and shows how to do each of the techniques for goldwork. I've heard that the Jane Lemon book is the best though. Or nue' is the stitching of metal threads with a fine colored thread to make shaded or colored patterns. The gold threads cover the whole surface of the design and the spacing of the color stitching is varied to show more or less gold. Roscelin Well, I'm off to get packed to attend the Sewing Expo up in Puyallup, WA. -- Original message -- From: E House [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my sewing (HAH!) so now that I work for my fabric instead of paying for it, I've decided to add on a nice, stupidly expensive hobby: I want to get into goldwork! Specifically, the sort that would be used for embellishing garments and headwear in the early 16th century. But being me, I have to be as authentic as I can... and I really have no idea where to start with the research. (The best website I've found so far for the type of goldwork I'm interested in is this, even though she does the modern stuff: http://www.berlinembroidery.com/bullions.htm http://www.berlinembroidery.com/goldwork.htm ) Does anyone know of any good resources for learning about the authentic stuff? Any suggestions for modern books that might help me with technique? I started embroidering when I was 7 or 8, so I do have experience with that angle of it, but I think a lot of that just doesn't translate. And it's not the sort of thing where I'd want to spend tons of time experimenting blind, because even the cheap version of the silly stuff is so expensive per yard. Andr is this what was called Or Nue'? -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: body shaping (was corset myth)
- Original Message - From: Gail Scott Finke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Both your replies to the original query were fascinating! I loved all the quotes. But now I am interested in a different item listed above. When you say that in the 13th century the solution to desired body shaping was breast wrapping, what exactly do you mean? I'm sure they did something, but I am not familiar with this. That's a reference to a few mentions I've run across in books, or quotes from others who've read them. The one that sticks in my head best is from the 13th century, because it's the first mention I found--it's mentioned in A History of Private Life, Vol II (p363) and is from La Cle' d'Amour which is an anthology of 13thC works in the tradition of Ovid, containing advice on all sorts of things. I don't have an exact quote, but in this work, women whose breasts are too large are advised to bind them. Other references: Somewhen in the middle of the 12th century, an abbot, Gilbert of Hoyland, (created abbot 1150, died 1172) writes in Sermones in Canticum Solomonis that: The breasts are most pleasing when they are of moderate size and eminence...They should be bound but not flattened, restrained with gentleness but not given too much license. This article: Waugh, Christina Frieder. Well-Cut through the Body: Fitted Clothing in Twelfth-Century Europe, Dress (volume 26) 1999 (sorry, don't have any more info on it) discusses breastbinding in the 12thC, and contains another Gilbert of Hoyland quote: I refer you to the devices of women, who cultivate and develop physical beauty and have mastered this art. For what are they more anxious to avoid in embellishing the bosom, than that the breasts be overgrown and shapeless and flabby?.Therefore they constrain overgrown and flabby breasts with breast-bands, artfully remedying the shorcomings of nature. Line 13329 ff. from The Romance of the Rose, written about 1360, from the Charles Dahlberg translation [This is what my notes say, but this is from the second half, and I think that part was written at the end of the 13thC. Could this have been added in to a later version? or did my source just look at the wrong date?]: If her breasts are too heavy she should take a scarf or towel to bind them against her chest and wrap it right around her ribs, securing it with needle and thread or by a knot; thus she can be active at her play. There's something about Eleanor of Aquitaine (12thC) and also an 8thC Lombardic reference, but I can't put my hands on them at the moment. Wish I could! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Goldwork
1st: Dont buy or borrow Kreinicks book about metal thread embroidery. Its just crap, a lot of cross stitch patterns using metallic threads. But a very useable good book, very small, but cheap is Needle Crafts 20 Goldwork. Its published by Search Press Limited, Tunbridge Wells, Kent - England. Also their larger book Goldwork Revised and expanded edition. I started my goldwork to outline ordinary embroideries, f.eks flowers and leaves with gold passing thread. Then i went on and used bullion threads (hollow wrapped goldthreads (worms)). Goldspangels is also fun to use. Silver is another thing. It tarnishes much two quicly, and today its almost impossible to clean by others than experts. A warning i want to advise everybody about is using bullion threads on clothing. The ends of this fine goldthread, catches everything, and unravell itselfs. I spoke to Mauritia Kirchner about this recently, and she has the same problems.Wasnt a problem for the kings and nobels, they just baught a new outfit, but for us deadly, it is such a shame and expensive.Not a warning not to use it, but just that you wont get surprised! Very adictive hobby! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Dangerous Liasions Fashion and Furniture Catalog
I heard from 18th century womens list, that the catalog from the museum, is finally available. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Or nue (was Re: [h-cost] Goldwork
Quoting E House [EMAIL PROTECTED]: And is this what was called Or Nue'? Or nue is some of the most awesome needlework ever produced by human hands. The cardinal is Or Nue http://www.berlinembroidery.com/cardinal.htm The gold threads are couched down with red silk. How close together the couching stitches are makes the design. Here's some pictures http://rubens.anu.edu.au/raid4/austria/vienna/museums/schatzkammer/order_of_the_golden_fleece/liturgical_vestments/ http://www.khm.at/system2E.html?/staticE/page486.html http://www.khm.at/system2E.html?/staticE/page473.html There's a book on the painter Campin by Thurleman that has some of the most awesome enlargements for these garments. Campin is believed to have produced the cartoons for the vestments. Here's a figure that I scanned from this book http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Embroidery/OGF_campinPage166top.jpg http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/SCA/Embroidery/OGF_campinPage166.jpg generally, the faces and hands are done in split stitch. Jerusha -- who will learn to do this or die! - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Goldwork
It looks like some of the gold work done on the Japanese fabrics I saw in school. The gold was wrapped around a silk thread but you had to have an eyepiece to see it that close. It was fantastic details in the antique fabrics. I don't remember the time period, but very old. I'd love to learn more about this technique as well. Thanks for the inspiration. - Original Message - From: E House [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:45 PM Subject: [h-cost] Goldwork I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my sewing (HAH!) so now that I work for my fabric instead of paying for it, I've decided to add on a nice, stupidly expensive hobby: I want to get into goldwork! Specifically, the sort that would be used for embellishing garments and headwear in the early 16th century. But being me, I have to be as authentic as I can... and I really have no idea where to start with the research. (The best website I've found so far for the type of goldwork I'm interested in is this, even though she does the modern stuff: http://www.berlinembroidery.com/bullions.htm http://www.berlinembroidery.com/goldwork.htm ) Does anyone know of any good resources for learning about the authentic stuff? Any suggestions for modern books that might help me with technique? I started embroidering when I was 7 or 8, so I do have experience with that angle of it, but I think a lot of that just doesn't translate. And it's not the sort of thing where I'd want to spend tons of time experimenting blind, because even the cheap version of the silly stuff is so expensive per yard. And is this what was called Or Nue'? -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Goldwork
Quoting E House [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I don't waste anywhere near enough money on my sewing (HAH!) so now that I work for my fabric instead of paying for it, I've decided to add on a nice, stupidly expensive hobby: I want to get into goldwork! Specifically, the sort that would be used for embellishing garments and headwear in the early 16th century. But being me, I have to be as authentic as I can... and I really have no idea where to start with the research. I didn't realize that I hadn't addressed the first part of your email. Or nue wasn't something that you'd normally see on garb. Alot of what you would see in the 16th century was blackwork, maybe smocking on chemise necklines, etc. Paintings are going to be your friend here to help you see what kind of stuff was done in the specific locale and time period that you're wanting. You see metal thread on some Elizabethan Coifs. If you're doing Tudor English, look at paintings of Henry and his wives for early 16th century for your best tips. Jerusha - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] slightly O-T greetings of the (passing) season
On Thursday 02 March 2006 1:32 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Who would expect in a modest little neighborhood in Fairfield Connecticut to drive around the corner and find a pair of snowpersons one of whom was wearing a HENNIN? I assume a little girl wanted to give her Hallowe'en costume one more day to shineAnyway, with the homeowner's permission I took a photo of Snow Maiden and Swain. That is precious! Thank you! -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] Physics is like sex; sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.--Richard Feynman ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap
Well, this is really fascinating, because I read about it as a part of an ensemble worn to a Regency ball -- not a particularly young woman, but also (I believe), not of the old, turbaned dowager variety. I can't imagine such a thing being worn w/ a formal ballgown, and (although I don't claim to be a scholar by any means!) it seems especially incongruous w/ a high-waisted Regency dress in a light muslin or silk. (I'm not sure where I saw the original reference.) I had pictured something more like a Juliet cap -- have you ever seen such a cap on a woman, or in such a context? Thanks for the image search! I'll have to explore using that more! KP Susan B. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quoting Kathryn Parke : Alas, that helps me not -- what does a Phrygian style hat look like? : ) google image search is your friend http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10hl=enlr=q=phrygian+hatbtnG=Search Susan - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume - Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. - Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Alexandrian cap
The phrygian hat is also called the Liberty hat and is worn by the French Lady Liberty, Marianne. It was about the time of the French revolution that it became popular. http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/france_159/discovering-france_2005/france-f rom-to-z_1978/the-symbols-of-the-republic-and-bastille-day_2002/marianne_150 6.html http://www.allstates-flag.com/fotw/flags/xf-cap.html So it may have been fashionable for a woman to wear such a hat with a Regency gown. De -Original Message- Well, this is really fascinating, because I read about it as a part of an ensemble worn to a Regency ball -- not a particularly young woman, but also (I believe), not of the old, turbaned dowager variety. I can't imagine such a thing being worn w/ a formal ballgown, and (although I don't claim to be a scholar by any means!) it seems especially incongruous w/ a high-waisted Regency dress in a light muslin or silk. (I'm not sure where I saw the original reference.) I had pictured something more like a Juliet cap -- have you ever seen such a cap on a woman, or in such a context? Thanks for the image search! I'll have to explore using that more! KP ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] The Change Hand Fans
Okay ladies... how many of you have had hot flashes and found that your hand fans are your new best friend? I have been collecting hands fans for the past 10 years. They had only come out of the drawer in the summertime when sitting by the pool. Now with the hot flashes, I carry them with me everywhere. I have one in every room of my house. And I can color coordinate them with my outfits? Maybe a new trend for us going through the change! Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
