Re: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
I was just going through some stacked-up e-mail -- I tend to catch up in fits and spurts, so sometimes miss things. Plus I have dial-up, so anything that requires lots of image-heavy downloads gets set aside till I have *time*. Anyway, Susan posted lots of picture links. I haven't looked at all of them but of the ones I did see -- yes, as you indicated, lots of Flemish 15th-16th c. fantasy. I took so many pictures of these sorts of weird dresses in Belgium! In addition to the fact that they're all on religious/historic/symbolic figures, it's also useful to note that you rarely find two that are anywhere near alike, which makes it even more obvious that these aren't meant to represent fashionable wear! The regular clothing (on portraits, and in genre scenes) tends to be cast-of-a-mold with relatively small differences in features. Rule of thumb: The rarer it is, the less likely to be real. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/hitomi_gehrig/14th%20Century/Roncolo6.gif I thought that the dress has a front panel because of the white dots running down the seam. I thought that they were buttons! The white dots are almost certainly buttons. I have no idea why she's all stripey, but from her headgear, I wouldn't lay bets that she's a real person, so I'd withhold judgement on this one without knowong the context. Of course, if she's Italian, there's no telling. Another rule of thumb: It's a bad idea to try to reproduce a costume from an artwork without knowing something about the artwork. Virgin with Saints (Barbara Catherine of Alexandria) http://www.wga.hu/art/b/benson/lou_135.jpg Not too weird, these. Catherine's outfit pays lip service to the by-now-required surcote but still is an attempt to make her look within range of the accepted fashion. The Barbara is quite passable but very rich as befits the princess she is; the fur oversleeves might be over the top. Headdress is all symbolic on both. and one of my personal favorites -- dig the pink 3 piece suit on the saint in the right panel http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/2/05adorat.jpg I think that's meant to be a dress that's hitched up at the waist/hip and bloused over. Still dripping with fantasy/foreign elements. Elijah the Widow of Zarapeth -- dig the sleeves http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/1/04adora2.jpg I think she's pretty realistic. I've seen those sleeves elsewhere. I think I saw this one in person, or one much like it, and took pictures -- not for the sleeve, but for the fitting at the back waist. IIRC, there's a horizontal seam at the top of the pleats, but it sort of comes out of nowhere -- it doesn't go beyond the pleated area. I would have to find the slides to confirm that, though. This is not the only gown I saw that on; it's some sort of technique for fitting over the rump. I can think of two or three ways to do it. again symbolic/allegrical, but you got 4 normal gowns and that odd thing in the lower left http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Paintings/flemish_CharlesBold.jpg None of these women are normal, though the one at the lower right looks realistic. The one on the throne is a rather straighforward queenly image plus a sword -- I think she's Justice. Oh yes, there it is above her head, the first word in the inscription. As for the four women upholding the coat-of-arms: See those words written on their skirts? Those are labels, so you know what characteristic or attribute they stand for. They are too dark to read as-is, but playing around in a photo editor, I think the upper left one might be Veritas, and the lower left is sage-something. The lower right one is clear: Sobrietas, or Sobriety. Now we know why she has no fantastical elements to her dress! --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Monogram alphabets Regency
Anybody point me at a source for Regency alphabets for embroidering monograms on shirts? (I have a few from La Belle Assemblee but they are mostly later, and more suitable for ladies' handkerchiefs as they are rather fancy.) The date of the costume is actually 1808, so I know it is not technically Regency,. I could make one up as I go along, but it would be really good to have a source. (It might give me an excuse to use my new tambour equipment I bought in a rush after the new 18th century embroidery book turned up!!) Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors)
But I can see elements of both in my kids' facial features. I daresay there's no historic look that quite matches that! --Robin I imagine you are right! My grandmother was half English, half Norwegian, and I look just like her--my hair is even turning the same beautiful silver hers did, instead of just gray--so, whatever look that combo produces is me, though in truth, I'm definitely a genetic mutt. I have just enough Native America filtered in from my mom's side to make me turn coppery when I tan. My husband, on the other hand, is 100% Roman Catholic Polish, and only second generation American. The boys look mostly like him, with just traces of me in their features. I'm thinking of researching Polish garb for them, because I think it would suit them, though the Skinny Monkey Boy prefers the Neanderthal look--as little clothing as possible! LOL. Dianne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ruff
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lovely site, Melanie. Your costumes are all wonderful. [Hey...why skip the 18th century?] :) I have one 18th-c that I made in high school, so it's not quite up to par with the rest of what's up there. I need to make a new one for teaching costume history, but other things are higher priority right now. Your ruff instructions are great too. I especially like your use of items just about anybody can get a hold of! Have you seen Jean Honnisette's ruff instructions? She starches and does the 8's BEFORE gathering to the neck band. But of course in the period, this seems unlikely. It makes more sense to me to start with a gathered ruffle and then manipulate it. Me too. I hadn't looked at Hunnisett for ruffs because she focuses on theatrical applications. I've just pulled her out, and she gives several good versions for the stage. It's true that most theatres can't do all the restarching and setting that I do on mine. She shows several that are box-pleated into the band instead of gathered, and I did actually pleat one of my early ones thinking that that would make it easier to figure out where the figure-eights would go. It just makes it much harder to starch! The gathers (or really really tiny cartridge pleats) are really necessary so that the fullness can spring almost immediately from tightly gathered into the neckband to spread wide into the figure-eights. These gathers and the springing action are quite visible in some portraits from the second half of the 16th. The first ruff I did was theatrical-style, made with plastic horsehair braid and cartridge-pleated to a neckband. Then I made a doublet with a standing collar and found that they didn't get along because the length of my neck was taken up with the ruff band. The way I do my ruffs now is not only more accurate, it works better. With all of the ruff springing from the top of the band, it sits nicely behind a standing collar, and since I dry them upside-down after starching, they cradle the face like those in the portraits rather than just sitting out flat. How did you determine how much yardage to use in the ruff? I use math! I make some sample figure-eights of the size I want them to be, and then see how much flat fabric it takes to make, say, a three-inch-long section of figure-eights. Then I decide how wide the ruff will be from neck edge to hem edge and work from my neck circumference to find the ruff circumference. If the ruff is, for example, 36 around, and it takes 12 of flat fabric to make a 3 section of figure-eights, I'll need 144 of fabric. More would make bigger 8's, no? Would you need a goffering iron with a larger diameter? Yes. I have two of them. The trick is figuring out just how big the 8s should be each time you starch the things. If you make them too tall, there will be spaces between them because there won't be enough of them to make it all the way around. Why did you attach the 2nd ruff to the neck of the shirt? If I were you, I take the ruff and neckband off the shirt, put a new band on the shirt and just baste them together to wear. That way washing is easier, fixing the ruff is easier, and you can wear the ruff elsewhere...and the shirt w/out a ruff. True. It was an experiment, and we do know that early ones were attached. But ones of that size, probably not, and I wouldn't do it again. It makes it much harder to restarch. Cheers, Melanie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ruff
Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: If you put an extra layer on the inside of the ruff neckband, you can take that off to wash and sew on again more easily. Yes, but the tops of mine also get dirty where they touch my chin, as I unfortunately have oily skin. Plus the shaping of the starch starts to break down after a few wearings just from getting bashed about hugging people, leaning back against things, and the exigencies of travel. I do have a nice case for carrying them in, but starch is a temporary thing. It just makes me appreciate the hard work of all those starchers in the 16th and 17th centuries! Now I'm curious: how many people actually starch their ruffs after they're made like I do? Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting
Greetings! I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community theater settings. I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham Portrait of a Man, German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am curious as to what fabrics would be likely. Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up a larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the detail. http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html Thanks! Lonnie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting
Greeting from a fellow UGA grad. I have MFA in Fabric Design with a minor in computer art. 1997 grad. Miss it too. I'm now in PA... waaayyy up north. I miss the warmth of the south but not the tornados. Where are you? - Original Message - From: Lonnie D. Harvel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:26 AM Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting Greetings! I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community theater settings. I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham Portrait of a Man, German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am curious as to what fabrics would be likely. Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up a larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the detail. http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html Thanks! Lonnie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting
I am on the research faculty at Georgia Tech, but a couple of years ago, my wife and I moved back to Athens, GA (location of UGA for the non-alumni). A bit of a commute, but I don't go in to campus every day. Lonnie, p.s. I graduated with the BFA in 1985. Becky wrote: Greeting from a fellow UGA grad. I have MFA in Fabric Design with a minor in computer art. 1997 grad. Miss it too. I'm now in PA... waaayyy up north. I miss the warmth of the south but not the tornados. Where are you? - Original Message - From: Lonnie D. Harvel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:26 AM Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting Greetings! I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community theater settings. I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham Portrait of a Man, German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am curious as to what fabrics would be likely. Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up a larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the detail. http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html Thanks! Lonnie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting
Hi Lonnie and welcome! I'm a theatre person too (BA and MA in theatre costume), and pretty new to this list. I'm familiar with this painting-- I do 16th C. Clothing in the SCA-- so here's my advice: I think the doublet drapes too well in the sleeve to be suede. Looks like velvet to me-- you might try heavy cotton velvet, not that awful acetate velvet that they sell for clothing , to reproduce this. Make sure there is no plastic backing on the fabric if you use upholstery velvet. The person wearing it will just die under the lights! Best Regards- Monica Spence (Catriona MacDuff in the SCA) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Lonnie D. Harvel Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:26 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting Greetings! I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community theater settings. I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham Portrait of a Man, German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am curious as to what fabrics would be likely. Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up a larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the detail. http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html Thanks! Lonnie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] cluny lace company
Has anyone here ever ordered from this company? Cluny Lace Co, Ltd. Their laces look very nice. I am about to do a project requiring large amounts of lace trim and I am looking for a good source. http://www.clunylace.com/index.htm -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Monogram alphabets Regency
In a message dated 3/13/2006 6:46:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anybody point me at a source for Regency alphabets for embroidering monograms on shirts? Men's shirts, as well as women's body linen and household linens, were generally marked with what is called marking stitches. This is basically little tiny cross stitches, kind of like counted thread stitching, and consist of the person's initials and perhaps a number, if you have more than 1. You can probably find a graph for these, but they are easy to work out yourself. They didn't go in for fancy monogramming--at least, I have never seen any. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Medieval clerical underwear
Below forwarded from another list. I could swear we've talked about this before -- it's in one of the monastic rules, I think, perhaps the passage that mentions femoralia that gets brought up every so often? Anyone have a source? -- Forwarded message -- I think that medieval monastic legislation on dress often specified that underwear had to be worn by monks or friars when going outside the monastery: i.e. there was a pragmatic concern for modesty when travelling about, which would not apply, of course, at burial. I've just looked in Giancarlo Rocca, ed., La sostanza dell'effimero: gli abiti degli ordini religiosi in occidente (Rome: Edizioni Paoline, 2000) for verification, but without success. Someone else may have a source to hand. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises
Hi All- I subbed as the instructor for a Clothing History class a couple of weeks ago. One of the instructors notes stated that the ruff was a descendant of a chemise with a drawstring neck. I have been a costumer since I was 12 (oh, boy am I dating myself), with a BA and MA in Theatre costume and 18 years of 16th C. clothing research in the SCA that resulted in a Laurel-- and now I teach fashion on the college level, so I guess I'm pretty intense about my clothing Anyway I have never seen anything about a drawstring that is Medieval or Renaissance. As a matter of fact something I read said it was the result of the I need 100 chemises fast mindset of the original Ren Faires. The chemises I have seen--- and this is only in paintings, mind you-- show no indication of a drawstring in the neck-- either a high neckline or low neckline. Can anyone help me on this? My professor friend has said she found a reference in several books but is more than willing to look at what I find , and change her lecture, as necessary. We both hate the idea of disseminating incorrect information to students. Thanks a bunch-- Monica Spence (Catriona MacDuff in the SCA) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Monogram alphabets Regency
At 14:01 13/03/2006, you wrote: In a message dated 3/13/2006 6:46:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anybody point me at a source for Regency alphabets for embroidering monograms on shirts? Men's shirts, as well as women's body linen and household linens, were generally marked with what is called marking stitches. This is basically little tiny cross stitches, kind of like counted thread stitching, and consist of the person's initials and perhaps a number, if you have more than 1. You can probably find a graph for these, but they are easy to work out yourself. They didn't go in for fancy monogramming--at least, I have never seen any. Thank you Ann - I should have remembered that. Having a bit of a ditzy morning! You are right, I can work that out by myself. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting
Could be either, I think. Slashing wasn't exactly unknown on woven fabrics g, but there are a couple of doublets in _Patterns of Fashion_ that are made, at least in part, of suede and/or leather. It could be velvet or another piled fabric, or really, really nice wool (given that this fellow isn't an aristocrat), OR leather. Think you'd have to experiment with drape and whatnot --Sue - Original Message - From: Lonnie D. Harvel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 6:26 AM Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting Greetings! I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community theater settings. I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham Portrait of a Man, German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am curious as to what fabrics would be likely. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Obsessed with underwear
Hard not to seem fetishistic when one has such a preoccupation with what goes on under one's skirts. ;-) I'm doing a bit of byproduct research at the moment and can't figure out why there is such a clearly understood, but as-of-yet not terribly well supported belief that English women didn't wear underwear for, at the very least the 1500-1600 block of time. They were worn at other points in time - bikini type appear in illuminations through the middle ages. All over continental Europe at various periods they were the norm. Thus far I have tracked the usage like this: From the Middle East to Spain, From Spain to Italy, From Italy to France, and only until after the French Revolution, does England cave in and cover up. (Or so I have found without sources thus far) Best I can find right now are two implied statements from Fynes Morryson and Samuel Pepys. Neither actually out right say English women don't wear underwear, the implication is through their reaction to continental women that do. Just where is this coming from??? Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert Its never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Medieval clerical underwear
I have that one somewhere. I'll go look in my office sometime in the week. I'm moving house right now, but I'm fairly certain I know where those papers should be. /Lena --- Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Below forwarded from another list. I could swear we've talked about this before -- it's in one of the monastic rules, I think, perhaps the passage that mentions femoralia that gets brought up every so often? Anyone have a source? -- Forwarded message -- I think that medieval monastic legislation on dress often specified that underwear had to be worn by monks or friars when going outside the monastery: i.e. there was a pragmatic concern for modesty when travelling about, which would not apply, of course, at burial. I've just looked in Giancarlo Rocca, ed., La sostanza dell'effimero: gli abiti degli ordini religiosi in occidente (Rome: Edizioni Paoline, 2000) for verification, but without success. Someone else may have a source to hand. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting
A nice wool works. I have made this one. Unfortionally I don't have a good picture of it. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/16thcent/16woman/IF3.jpg Sue Clemenger wrote: Could be either, I think. Slashing wasn't exactly unknown on woven fabrics g, but there are a couple of doublets in _Patterns of Fashion_ that are made, at least in part, of suede and/or leather. It could be velvet or another piled fabric, or really, really nice wool (given that this fellow isn't an aristocrat), OR leather. Think you'd have to experiment with drape and whatnot --Sue - Original Message - From: Lonnie D. Harvel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 6:26 AM Subject: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting Greetings! I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community theater settings. I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham Portrait of a Man, German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am curious as to what fabrics would be likely. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors)
I have the Finnest face (and nose) in all the land--maybe I should look into what was worn there. I'm hopelessly Franco-Flemish in garb taste too, though. I'm curious about this discussion about typical facial features, though--does anyone remember enough about when it took place or what the subject lines were to help me find it in the archives? This has been a topic of fascination for me for quite a while. I have friends and friends of friends who are from eastern Asia and Africa who can look at someone and immediately tell what geographical area or what tribe the Americans they see walking down the street are originally from. It absolutely knocks my socks off! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Obsessed with underwear
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, Kathy Page wrote: I'm doing a bit of byproduct research at the moment and can't figure out why there is such a clearly understood, but as-of-yet not terribly well supported belief that English women didn't wear underwear for, at the very least the 1500-1600 block of time. They were worn at other points in time - bikini type appear in illuminations through the middle ages. All over continental Europe at various periods they were the norm. I think it is not safe to generalize about through the middle ages and all over continental Europe. Certainly in Gothic-era Western Europe (before 1500) there is no good evidence for women wearing anything under their shifts. There are a handful of images that get trotted out as underwear examples whenever this comes up, but as we've hashed out multiple times on this list (and as Heather Rose Jones ably showed during her presentation on this topic at the Medieval Congress a few years ago*) each of these is clearly designed to be an exception to accepted practice: e.g. an image of a cross-dressing saint, a satiric view of an uppity woman taking the man's role, etc. Balance that with a handful of written references that make it clear that women were expected to be panty-less as a norm, and a huge quantity of images in which underwear might be expected but is absent, and the case is really quite strong. I certainly don't know of a vast quantity of medieval European illuminations of bikini underwear on women. On men, yes. In Roman art, yes (but then possibly in certain circumstances only, e.g. athletic wear). Maybe one or two medieval images I can think of that fall into the category above of deliberate exceptions that prove the rule. As you move away from England, and away from Western Europe, you might have a better case. I do agree that the 16th c. saw the movement of female underwear into Western Europe, as you have described: From the Middle East to Spain, From Spain to Italy, From Italy to France, I believe there's a reference to one or two sets of drawers in Queen Elizabeth's wardrobe, but no evidence that she actually wore them (vs. them being gifts from foreign ambassadors and novelties). On the other hand, her wardrobe accounts record vast quantities of those items that she did wear on a daily basis, down to pins by the thousands and many personal items, and one would think that if she wore drawers routinely they would be recorded along with the rest of the wardrobe. Best I can find right now are two implied statements from Fynes Morryson and Samuel Pepys. Neither actually out right say English women don't wear underwear, the implication is through their reaction to continental women that do. That's exactly the sort of evidence you're likely to find. If something isn't routinely worn, isn't considered normal or typical, people don't talk or write about it much, except when they have occasion to talk about those who do wear it (e.g. those bizarre foreigners). The absence of other evidence is a pretty good indicator that the items simply weren't around -- not just the pictures that show men with drawers and women without, but also documentary evidence, e.g. the lack of mention of drawers along with chemises, caps, and other linen goods in milliners' shop lists. An analogy: How often do people today talk about women not wearing neckties? If you were trying to show through documents and artwork that women in the USA c. 2000 don't wear neckties, what kind of evidence would you have? Just where is this coming from??? Not sure what your question is -- you mean, where do people get the idea that English women didn't wear underwear till, at best, late in the 16th c., and most likely not till later? Perhaps it's true? If you find solid evidence to the contrary, I know this list will be very happy to hear it. --Robin *coming soon to a volume of Medieval Clothing Textiles ... vol. 4 I hope (right, Heather?) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Trying to find original source
I'm sprucing up a pair of kid gloves to look more elizabethan, and have decided this is what I want them to look like: http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg (hopefully tht link works, it said it uploaded just fine, but I couldn't get it to open myself. weird.) The drawing is from Cunningtons' Handbook of English Costume in the Sixteenth Century. When I checked her source for the drawing, it was not an original painting as I had hoped, but another book (Kelly's Shakespearean Costume). I know I have seen these gloves in a painting just recently but I can't for the life of me recall the painting itself. I had found a close-ish Spanish one, but it's hard to tell. Does it ring a bell for anyone? Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert Its never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Obsessed with underwear
As I've mentioned before, I found it hard to believe that women used not to wear drawers until I saw the Rowlandson print Exhibition Stare Case, which shows 18th century women tumbling down stairs and obviously not wearing any. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] European ancestors (was: Danish ancestors)
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, E House wrote: I'm curious about this discussion about typical facial features, though--does anyone remember enough about when it took place or what the subject lines were to help me find it in the archives? rustle, rustle I have one post saved from Nov. 24, 2002, with the subject line body type periods. It refers back to an even earlier thread, so this wasn't the original discussion. And again in Nov. 2003, with a subject line Facial and body types costume, which also refers back to the original thread. I cannot find the original thread. Certain things tend to come up over and over. This has been a topic of fascination for me for quite a while. I have friends and friends of friends who are from eastern Asia and Africa who can look at someone and immediately tell what geographical area or what tribe the Americans they see walking down the street are originally from. It absolutely knocks my socks off! A Ukranian at the Medieval Congress once nailed me not only as Ukranian, but correctly placed my family as from Kiev. On one guess. Yow. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Theatre museum in London closing?
The following was sent me a few minutes ago from a friend... Sending e-mail certainly wouldn't hurt! (sent to h-needlework as well, because there is a tie-in with the decoration of costume) -Liz Dear Friends and Colleagues, Some of you may have already heard disturbing rumours about the imminent closure of London's Theatre Museum. This shocking and completely unexpected news has taken the museum staff completely by surprise, and the future now looks grim for the world's greatest collection of British theatrical memorabilia. The VA, which runs the Theatre Museum, argues that no one cares what happens to it. I would urge you and/or anyone else you know who feels strongly about the future of the museum to prove them wrong, and write and protest to the Director of the VA (who's decision this is) at the following address: Mark Jones Director Victoria Albert Museum email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ...
Hi, Yes i also have a quote somewhere, about the maids in Amsterdam wearing trousers each time they had to pollish the windows. Bjarne - Original Message - From: E House [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:15 PM Subject: Re: Flemish (was RE: [h-cost] tippets ... - Original Message - From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Elijah the Widow of Zarapeth -- dig the sleeves http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/zunk_fl/16_paint/1/04adora2.jpg I think she's pretty realistic. I've seen those sleeves elsewhere. I think I saw this one in person, or one much like it, and took pictures -- not for the sleeve, but for the fitting at the back waist. IIRC, there's a horizontal seam at the top of the pleats, but it sort of comes out of nowhere -- it doesn't go beyond the pleated area. I would have to find the slides to confirm that, though. This is not the only gown I saw that on; it's some sort of technique for fitting over the rump. I can think of two or three ways to do it. I've been pondering this sleeve style for a while. It is seen pretty often, and occasionally on non-saints, but... I think there's at least one symbolic element to it, and I'm pretty sure it's the fringe that often shows up. I can't think of a single occasion when that sleeve fringe did not appear on a Jewish/Old Testament figure. Even though the short sleeves worn over a chemise look is realistic, I think that perhaps it shows up in paintings/illuminations/etc a bit more than necessary in a representative fashion sense, as an easy way to display that symbolic fringe. If anyone is interested in that pleated bustle effect style dress, just wait around a few days; that's the style I post about all the freakin' time! =} (Or at least the later variant of it.) If you want to see more pictures of that style, you can wade through the temp files I have online: http://www.formfunction.org/temp/ http://www.formfunction.org/temp2/ http://www.formfunction.org/temp3/ There's all sorts of other stuff in there too, but I'm too busy/lazy to pick out the bustle ones at the moment. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises
We've debated this topic more than once and the general consensus seems to be that chemises/shifts before the 18th century had stitched-down gathers, not drawstrings. 17th century reenactors commonly do make shifts with drawstrings, presumably because that's how we would make modern garments that look like that (i.e. peasant or gypsy-style blouses). I'm not a Tudor expert, but presumably the ruff developed from a chemise neck gathered into a ruffle? Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Springhill costume collection on tour
I saw this posted on another list -- and forgive me if this is a duplicate (I'm way behind on this list). Springhill has a costume collection that is touring around Ireland this year and next. http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-vh/w-visits/w-findaplace/w-springhill.htm In case anyone is lucky enough to live in Ireland or be visiting soon The website has photos of some of their costume collection and an article about the items on tour. I really love the green pelisse -- yummy!! ~mary «:*´`´`*:»§«.»§«:*´`´`*:».«:*´`´`*:»§«.»§«:*´`´`*:» Pictures of perfection, as you know, make me sick wicked. ~ Jane Austen Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before. ~ Steven Wright ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises
Hi Monica, I'm wondering where her sources come from...how old they are. Karl Kohler era costumers have been passed as almost biblical until recently. This might be why she thinks the shifts were drawstrung. I would offer her the portraiture you've been looking at and have a good discussion about this topic. Good luck! Kelly Anyway I have never seen anything about a drawstring that is Medieval or Renaissance. As a matter of fact something I read said it was the result of the I need 100 chemises fast mindset of the original Ren Faires. The chemises I have seen--- and this is only in paintings, mind you-- show no indication of a drawstring in the neck-- either a high neckline or low neckline. Can anyone help me on this? My professor friend has said she found a reference in several books but is more than willing to look at what I find , and change her lecture, as necessary. We both hate the idea of disseminating incorrect information to students. Thanks a bunch-- Monica Spence (Catriona MacDuff in the SCA) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises
Is there anywhere I can see how this is done? This is the first time I've heard about this technique. I was always under the belief that drawstrings were used in the neckline and cuffs. Since I have to make myself some new chemises this is a good time to learn the new technique (new to me). Roscelin -- Original message -- From: Kate M Bunting [EMAIL PROTECTED] We've debated this topic more than once and the general consensus seems to be that chemises/shifts before the 18th century had stitched-down gathers, not drawstrings. 17th century reenactors commonly do make shifts with drawstrings, presumably because that's how we would make modern garments that look like that (i.e. peasant or gypsy-style blouses). I'm not a Tudor expert, but presumably the ruff developed from a chemise neck gathered into a ruffle? Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises
Hi Roscelin, this depends a lot on the style...can you show us a picture of what you are trying to make? Sg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there anywhere I can see how this is done? This is the first time I've heard about this technique. I was always under the belief that drawstrings were used in the neckline and cuffs. Since I have to make myself some new chemises this is a good time to learn the new technique (new to me). Roscelin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Trying to find original source
Boogers, link didn't work.. Kathy Page wrote: I'm sprucing up a pair of kid gloves to look more elizabethan, and have decided this is what I want them to look like: http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg (hopefully tht link works, it said it uploaded just ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: European ancestors
My family is mostly Irish, though you can't tell by my name. My brother and I don't look very Irish, but my father's family certainly does. I grew up in Pittsburgh, where there is a very large Polish population. So we always fit in pretty well with the short, dark-haired Poles. Now I live in Cincinnati, which has a huge German-ancestry population. Everyone is tall and blonde, and here I am -- little and dark-haired. My husband's family is all tall and blonde. When we visit Pittsburgh, my husband always says he feels a head taller than everyone else, though here in Cincinnati he feels just average. My parents have moved, and when we attend the church closest to their house, it's usually full of another short, dark-haired group -- Italians. My husband calls it the Mafia Church, which may actually be true. There is quite a bit of Mafia in Pittsburgh. There was a little Italian restaurant a few miles from the house I grew up in that was reputed to be popular with the Mafia, and one of my high school friends used to bartend at Mafia weddings (other weddings too, of course). One of my former bosses here in Cincinnati used to think I made the Mafia stuff up. She didn't believe there really WAS a Mafia anymore! Costume content: None, really. Although I hear that because of the Polish population now being more prosperous, ridiculously expensive First Communion dresses are now popular. A store near my parents' house, the kind that sells $300 Christmas dresses for 8-year-old girls, now stocks similar First Communion dresses. I made my daughter's dress, but the girls in her First Communion class generally had the $30-$60 department store variety. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Bishop's Lawn - linen or cotton?
This is probably a silly question :-) Could someone tell me if the Bishop's Lawn on sale from Hamon's in Jersey is terribly fine cotton or actual linen? I'm desperate to get some yummy thin linen for shifts etc., but don't want to spring for the shipping from the US (basically I've got to add on more than the cost of the fabric for postage plus another 25% for duty, VAT, etc). Oy. Thank you very much - I already have their phone number sitting next to my phone, thanks to the archive search feature :-) Katherine (who shouldn't actually be buying ANYTHING) A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort - Herm Albright ___ Yahoo! Photos NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tea towels
Ah, but one misses out on the practical activity of treading all the dusty or muddy trails! A great way to walk off a few pounds. Also, the venture of the hand and eye in discovering potential bargains has its own pleasure. In our region, most of the reproductive linen has catered more to the multitudes of Battenberg enthusiast than good old birdseye and other interesting weaves. Huck cloths aplenty, too. Kathleen - Original Message - From: Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels There are hundreds and hundreds of fancy (and not so fancy) vintage and antique tablecloths, towels, tea towels, bedspreads, handkerchiefs, and linens of all sorts on eBay. Embroidered, printed, crocheted, tatted, fringed, woven, plaid, striped, plain, and everything you can think of. You can buy them individually or as part of a big lot, and in conditions ranging from perfect to awful. I was buying embroidered tablecloths to make into skirts for awhile, at great prices, but after buying eight or so within a few days I gave up browsing the textiles. There were just too many. But if you look under Collectibles/Linens, Fabric and Textiles or Antiques, Textiles and Linens (the latter are generally pricier items), you'll never have to spend hours at a flea market again--just in front of your computer. I had the sense to do a search on tea towels, after I posted. Irish Linen tea towels appear to have been popular since the early 1970s, judging by the fact that some are dated (because they're printed with calendars for the year). There are scads on eBay, though most are printed with very tacky designs. I didn't find any William Morris ones (even though I've just worn out four in my kitchen, bought from museum catalogs at different times). If anyone is interested, many of the towels are listed on eBay for about $5, and they are very effective as hand and dish towels. I got three printed with Book of Kells designs which are a bit bright for my taste, but that will fade as they get beat up and washed every week (the reason why I passed up all the vintage embroidered ones listed--we use the towels heavily). Also one printed with a picture of the Louvre (tea towels seem to be popular tourist items). Then someone on h-costume, whose message I accidentally deleted, kindly sent me a link to the online store of the Country Dance and Song Society, where you can buy the Book of Kells towels: http://www.cdss.org/sales/holiday.html But if anyone knows anywhere in the US to get more William Morris tea towels (I did find some places in England), please let me know. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: Fran, the only time I have seen any that might be as you describe is at antique flea markets...such as Brimfield in Ma. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: Bishop's Lawn
As far as I remember it is fine cotton lawn. I have not come across anywhere in England which has very very fine lawn, although the fine lawn at the Cloth House is very fine, but not as closely woven as I would wish. It is £11.50 per metre 150 cm wide. The Cloth House - 47 and 98 Berwick Street, London W1F 0QJ Tel/fax 020 7287 1555 Suzi Thanks Suzi - I'll call them in the morning and see what they've got. Katherine in very very very cold Edinburgh - brrr A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort - Herm Albright ___ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Theatre museum in London closing?
At 15:46 13/03/2006, you wrote: The following was sent me a few minutes ago from a friend... Sending e-mail certainly wouldn't hurt! (sent to h-needlework as well, because there is a tie-in with the decoration of costume) -Liz Dear Friends and Colleagues, Some of you may have already heard disturbing rumours about the imminent closure of London's Theatre Museum. This shocking and completely unexpected news has taken the museum staff completely by surprise, and the future now looks grim for the world's greatest collection of British theatrical memorabilia. The VA, which runs the Theatre Museum, argues that no one cares what happens to it. I would urge you and/or anyone else you know who feels strongly about the future of the museum to prove them wrong, and write and protest to the Director of the VA (who's decision this is) at the following address: Mark Jones Director Victoria Albert Museum email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If anyone wants further information, I now have an update, which is a bit long winded, but will happily forward individually if required. Anyone here in the U.K can contact their MP and I have help for that too. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ruffs
At 20:09 13/03/2006, you wrote: Now I'm curious: how many people actually starch their ruffs after they're made like I do? And I'm curious if anyone has found something permanent to deal with the ruffs. There is a type of stuff sold at craft stores for making baskets out of lace doilies. It sets up permanently and supposedly doesn't wash out. I've used white glue thinned with water for craft items but never on clothing. Julie Straw stiffener, what you use on millinery straw (and hats) to keep it in shape, is pretty effective, and transparent. Use in a well ventilated room though - it can have odd effects. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ruffs
At 12:34 PM 3/13/2006, you wrote: At 20:09 13/03/2006, you wrote: Now I'm curious: how many people actually starch their ruffs after they're made like I do? And I'm curious if anyone has found something permanent to deal with the ruffs. There is a type of stuff sold at craft stores for making baskets out of lace doilies. It sets up permanently and supposedly doesn't wash out. I've used white glue thinned with water for craft items but never on clothing. Julie Straw stiffener, what you use on millinery straw (and hats) to keep it in shape, is pretty effective, and transparent. Use in a well ventilated room though - it can have odd effects. Suzi But what does it feel like against the skin? I'd expect it to be very irritating to have something stiff under my chin like that. Regular starch is resilient enough to not be too irritating. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ruffs
Thee is a stuff wich is used to permanent water proof felt hats. I used that for a standing band once, and it worked well. The band had lace on it, chinese bobbin lace, wich i baught as doylies once. Sorry i cant remember the name of the stuff, but it also starched the band same time. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Julie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 9:09 PM Subject: [h-cost] Ruffs Now I'm curious: how many people actually starch their ruffs after they're made like I do? And I'm curious if anyone has found something permanent to deal with the ruffs. There is a type of stuff sold at craft stores for making baskets out of lace doilies. It sets up permanently and supposedly doesn't wash out. I've used white glue thinned with water for craft items but never on clothing. Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: European ancestors
Hi, Yes and i would like to add, as it was me who sended the bad message at first about all americans being of europe origin. This was a stupid thing, it was not intended to be of any type of racism or anything, just a blubr from my part. I should have said that every american has origins from the old world, not europe. Sorry about this. What about russia, dont russia count in as european? I really dont know. Everytime i visits the gustavians in Sweden, i can always tell they are swedish, and that even that we are so close neighbors, Denmark and Sweden it is very typically the way they look like. Something about their eyes, and their shape of face. Off cause many swedes are very pale and has blue eyes and golden hair, but it is not only that. Here in Denmark we have many danes with very dark hair and also dark skin. They have their origin from Spain, as Denmark had a lot of spanish troops living in Jutland, during the wars in 1864. Funny how our past still have so much influence for us all. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Adele de Maisieres [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: European ancestors I'm mainly of Irish and French-Canadian descent, with some Swedish, Welsh, and English thrown in. Apparently, I'm very Irish looking with extremely fair skin and green eyes. My costume obsession: early 16th-century Florence. -- Adele de Maisieres - Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ruffs
That and you lose out on the fun of washing and starching ruffs...something I actually enjoy doing...kinda little and boring an can be done on my own time. kelly Straw stiffener, what you use on millinery straw (and hats) to keep it in shape, is pretty effective, and transparent. Use in a well ventilated room though - it can have odd effects. Suzi But what does it feel like against the skin? I'd expect it to be very irritating to have something stiff under my chin like that. Regular starch is resilient enough to not be too irritating. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] New Topic: drawstring necklines on chemises
Even in the 18th century, the typical drawstring neckline was not used. Sometimes there is a drawstring that serves to snug up the neckline a bit , but not to the extent of creating gathers. Sleeves tend to be gathered into cuffs and sometimes a ruffle added (sometimes of a finer fabric). Some shift sleeves are shorter, close fit and only have a narrow hem. But the same as anywhere, we see the head-swallowing-shift at reenactments. That's when it's pulled up to the collarbones. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] EQ-[Fwd: Re: Historic Horse Yahoo group]-OT this list for other than Historic Horse Costuming discussions
Hi all, for those of you who expressed an interest in an Other Than Costuming discussion place for historical equine discussions, here is an option. I figured I would try it out. I still intend to post my costume discussions to the h-costume list, but when the topic starts to diverge to more horsey things...we can go here. Sg Original Message Subject:Re: Historic Horse Yahoo group Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:25:26 -0800 (PST) From: Diana Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello! I would be very open for folks joining in. Right now my list is very quiet and I would enjoy having more people here! The only thing that I would like to stay away from is people selling their horses through the public posting. Information about horse-related costumes of a historic nature would be fantasitc! I have a few people on the list who belong to other historic interest lists who, I'm am sure, wouldn't mind more folks coming in as well! Please feel free to have people sign up and I will approve as soon as I can! -GM- */WickedFrau [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Hi, I and several others who belong to the Historic Costume List, were considering starting a historic equine list on Yahoo. But I see that you have one with similar interests and was wondering if we might just tag along. In general we would try to keep our horse and people costuming discussions on the latter list because other members have expressed interest in keeping them there even if they aren't focusing on that. But we horsey people, would also like to discuss more general historic horse aspects elsewhere and have a place to exchange pictures of our horses. If this is amenable to you, please let me know. Otherwise we will be happy to start another listI was thinking The Historic Equestrian. Thanks, Saragrace Knauf ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: European ancestors
Bjarne. My older daughter had a strange experience the first time she went to the USSR. As her group passed through Helsinki, she felt she was seeing many people who looked like her, and that the language she should have been studying was Finnish and not Russian. Her senior year in college she changed her language from Russian to Finnish and spent the rest of her senior in Turkou. The following summer she traveled up into the Arctic Circle to meet the Lapps. It was here that she Really felt at home. We have a picture of her in Lapp costume in a large family group where she looks to be like everyone else. Her great grandfather has the name of Fenlason...and always felt His family was from Scotland. I think the Scottish link to have been from Scandinavia. Erika is somewhat short and tends to be round. My family is southern Ireland and southern England. The genes will 'out.Kathleen Original Message - From: Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: European ancestors Hi, Yes and i would like to add, as it was me who sended the bad message at first about all americans being of europe origin. This was a stupid thing, it was not intended to be of any type of racism or anything, just a blubr from my part. I should have said that every american has origins from the old world, not europe. Sorry about this. What about russia, dont russia count in as european? I really dont know. Everytime i visits the gustavians in Sweden, i can always tell they are swedish, and that even that we are so close neighbors, Denmark and Sweden it is very typically the way they look like. Something about their eyes, and their shape of face. Off cause many swedes are very pale and has blue eyes and golden hair, but it is not only that. Here in Denmark we have many danes with very dark hair and also dark skin. They have their origin from Spain, as Denmark had a lot of spanish troops living in Jutland, during the wars in 1864. Funny how our past still have so much influence for us all. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Adele de Maisieres [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: European ancestors I'm mainly of Irish and French-Canadian descent, with some Swedish, Welsh, and English thrown in. Apparently, I'm very Irish looking with extremely fair skin and green eyes. My costume obsession: early 16th-century Florence. -- Adele de Maisieres - Habeo metrum - musicamque, hominem meam. Expectat alium quid? -Georgeus Gershwinus - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting
From what I can see this appears to be wool or suede/leather. I don't see any pile that would indicate velvet. From what I have learned from another's experience with leather. Old fashion tanning methods seem to leave the leather more supal(sp?) and drapey then the commercial leathers. De -Original Message- Greetings! I am new to the list. I have a BFA in a theater from the University of Georgia (US) in both performance and costume design. I went on into computer science, but have continued costuming, mostly in community theater settings. I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham Portrait of a Man, German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am curious as to what fabrics would be likely. Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up a larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the detail. http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html Thanks! Lonnie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ruffs
In a message dated 3/13/2006 3:36:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Straw stiffener, what you use on millinery straw (and hats) to keep it in shape, What we sometimes call Hat Lacquer. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ruffs
That goo is called decopage glue. I've used it on doilies before and it does make it very stiff. When it's dry, it's permenant. Glue will wilt when wet. Decogage won't. I'm not too sure how much water it would take but it definitely a stiff that will last much longer. - Original Message - From: Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ruffs At 12:34 PM 3/13/2006, you wrote: At 20:09 13/03/2006, you wrote: Now I'm curious: how many people actually starch their ruffs after they're made like I do? And I'm curious if anyone has found something permanent to deal with the ruffs. There is a type of stuff sold at craft stores for making baskets out of lace doilies. It sets up permanently and supposedly doesn't wash out. I've used white glue thinned with water for craft items but never on clothing. Julie Straw stiffener, what you use on millinery straw (and hats) to keep it in shape, is pretty effective, and transparent. Use in a well ventilated room though - it can have odd effects. Suzi But what does it feel like against the skin? I'd expect it to be very irritating to have something stiff under my chin like that. Regular starch is resilient enough to not be too irritating. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: origin of the facial types thread
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006, Gail Scott Finke wrote: The way I remember it, someone posted a web site of attendee photos at an American SCA event. A member who was a portrait photographer set up shop and took pictures of anyone who wanted them, as people do at dances and other functions. The original poster, I think, wanted information about a particular costume. But people were looking at many of the photos, and someone asked why it was that he/she could tell that this was a group of Americans without being told ahead of time. Various guesses were posted -- I remember someone saying that it was because so many had white, straight teeth -- but the concensus was the large variety of facial types. Yes, that is how I remember it too. And then the discussion turned to weight and got very snippy, ah well. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tea towels
We have vintage clothing and textile shows here too (there's one this coming weekend), and I used to love going to them. But now I love eBay more, to the extent that, when I'm pressed for time, I don't even always go to the local shows. On eBay there's just so much more merchandise available, and new stuff every day (from all over the world), and it's so much easier and quicker to browse it. I've been collecting clothing and textiles,and related publications, since I was 16. The net has just opened up the market incredibly; even though I often used to buy from other geographic areas by mail. I'm not really much of a window shopper; I look for things to buy rather than just spending hours looking around. And I don't need to lose weight, so that's not a factor. I agree though, that walking is practical exercise, in that you can get somewhere as you do it. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: Ah, but one misses out on the practical activity of treading all the dusty or muddy trails! A great way to walk off a few pounds. Also, the venture of the hand and eye in discovering potential bargains has its own pleasure. In our region, most of the reproductive linen has catered more to the multitudes of Battenberg enthusiast than good old birdseye and other interesting weaves. Huck cloths aplenty, too. Kathleen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ruffs
I've been meaning to try...in addition to some stiffening agent like starch or hat lacquer...zig-zaging some fishing line to the edge of the ruff. If you're attaching some lace to the edge with a narrow zig-zag, why not do it over some medium strength fishing line? If you get the right gauge, it could greatly help in achieving smooth, bouncy 8's. But I haven't tried it. It's as invisible as that nylon thread they sometimes do blind hems with, but it needs to have more body than the thread. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] EQ-[Fwd: Re: Historic Horse Yahoo group]-OT this list for other than Historic Horse Costuming discussions
How do I use this new group? Susan Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel too fast and you miss all you are traveling for. - Ride the Dark Trail by Louis L'Amour On Mar 13, 2006, at 1:31 PM, WickedFrau wrote: Hi all, for those of you who expressed an interest in an Other Than Costuming discussion place for historical equine discussions, here is an option. I figured I would try it out. I still intend to post my costume discussions to the h-costume list, but when the topic starts to diverge to more horsey things...we can go here. Sg Original Message Subject:Re: Historic Horse Yahoo group Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:25:26 -0800 (PST) From: Diana Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello! I would be very open for folks joining in. Right now my list is very quiet and I would enjoy having more people here! The only thing that I would like to stay away from is people selling their horses through the public posting. Information about horse-related costumes of a historic nature would be fantasitc! I have a few people on the list who belong to other historic interest lists who, I'm am sure, wouldn't mind more folks coming in as well! Please feel free to have people sign up and I will approve as soon as I can! -GM- */WickedFrau [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Hi, I and several others who belong to the Historic Costume List, were considering starting a historic equine list on Yahoo. But I see that you have one with similar interests and was wondering if we might just tag along. In general we would try to keep our horse and people costuming discussions on the latter list because other members have expressed interest in keeping them there even if they aren't focusing on that. But we horsey people, would also like to discuss more general historic horse aspects elsewhere and have a place to exchange pictures of our horses. If this is amenable to you, please let me know. Otherwise we will be happy to start another listI was thinking The Historic Equestrian. Thanks, Saragrace Knauf ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Greetings and question about a painting
I have a question about the fabric/material used in the Beham Portrait of a Man, German/Bavarian, 1529. My original guess was a velvet, but looking closer at the image, especially the cut-work in the trim and collar, I have begun wondering if this was a suede of some kind. I am curious as to what fabrics would be likely. Here is a good link to the portrait. Clicking on the image brings up a larger view that can go up to 200% of the image to see more of the detail. http://www.wga.hu/html/b/beham/barthel/portrait.html It is entirely possible there are leather/suede elements as there was more used than is generally understood. I know I recently spotted a discussion on a list that gave further evidence for leather as outerwear beyond what we have as extant. And for German men's garb it's more likely still. However a good wool will also work. I wouldn't use velvet, his clothes are that of the middle classes (not working) so of good quality but sober. He has been variously called the Mathematician and the umpire. This should be familiar even if it's not easy to place. It was the inspiration behind the Princes' riding outfit in Ever After. I had always suspected it was so, but when I spotted the costumers of the film had it on their site, it became proof positive;) http://www.cosprop.com/showcase.html#26costumes The thumbnails are there, but to see the larger sketch click explore the entire web photo collection and choose sketches. It's in the first set of images shown. If you don't have flash enabled I don't think you can see it. There is also another portrait which is very similar where the man in question is actually wearing a cloak. The neckline shape is very similar the pose not too far off. But I can't find it. It may be in my files, but not where I can get to it easily. michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.2/280 - Release Date: 13/03/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ruffs
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been meaning to try...in addition to some stiffening agent like starch or hat lacquer...zig-zaging some fishing line to the edge of the ruff. If you're attaching some lace to the edge with a narrow zig-zag, why not do it over some medium strength fishing line? If you get the right gauge, it could greatly help in achieving smooth, bouncy 8's. But I haven't tried it. It's as invisible as that nylon thread they sometimes do blind hems with, but it needs to have more body than the thread. I've seen this done, and by itself, it doesn't work very well. You get a fairly good shape on the edge, but the body of the ruff just collapses--kind of like doing a farthingale with only a single hoop at the bottom. As you suggest, I think you'd have to combine it with another stiffening method to get a good result. You'd also have to tack the figure-eights together where they touch unless you're using something really sturdy to stiffen (and even then, you'd have to pin or clip them together while drying). I don't think starch could withstand the sproing factor of fishing line unless it was really lightweight and you mixed the starch really strong. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Ruffs
Now I'm curious: how many people actually starch their ruffs after they're made like I do? And I'm curious if anyone has found something permanent to deal with the ruffs. There is a type of stuff sold at craft stores for making baskets out of lace doilies. It sets up permanently and supposedly doesn't wash out. I've used white glue thinned with water for craft items but never on clothing. Julie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn -very fine linnen
If you want to spend money, you could go to Theo Brejaart in Rotterdam. He is in the bobbin lace making buisiness, and sells the most superior quality, but also very expensive. I baught here for my 18th century shirts and stock cravats. Bjarne - Original Message - From: katherine sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 7:37 PM Subject: [h-cost] Bishop's Lawn - linen or cotton? This is probably a silly question :-) Could someone tell me if the Bishop's Lawn on sale from Hamon's in Jersey is terribly fine cotton or actual linen? I'm desperate to get some yummy thin linen for shifts etc., but don't want to spring for the shipping from the US (basically I've got to add on more than the cost of the fabric for postage plus another 25% for duty, VAT, etc). Oy. Thank you very much - I already have their phone number sitting next to my phone, thanks to the archive search feature :-) Katherine (who shouldn't actually be buying ANYTHING) A positive attitude may not solve all of your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort - Herm Albright ___ Yahoo! Photos - NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: European ancestors
My family's been here forever it seems. Most recent is over 200 years. Real American mongrels, but they've always been in the south states (Virginia, N. Carolina to Texas and south) and on the current frontier. We've always joked that if they lived in the southern United States 200 years ago, they're family. Every hair and eye color. Once on a trip in the UK, we stayed in a small hotel in rural central Wales. I met a girl who looked so much like my youngest aunt (at that age) that it was eerie. Same unusual shade of red hair, body type, etc. For me, many years ago my professor of Korean history swore that I looked like some of the people who lived in N. Korea up near the northern border... a bit of the American Indian coming out.. I'm very pale and I don't sunburn or tan easily, though my brother would get so dark that people tried to speak Spanish to him. Beth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Tea towels
Ah Me...My passion these last two months has been e-Bay and dolls! I have managed in a space of about 3 months to amass a fairly well balanced doll collection with which to play with in my dotage. The one thing I have realized is that I have a real thing for china dolls. Since I am after the right heads and bodies that will be graced by 19thC clothing, I have not been too particular with the original (so called) clothing or body condition. I have a nice store of vintage and antique sawdust, linen, and fabulous lace to play with. Some of the dolls have already suffered extreme makeovers,so I am not cowed by the antiquarian idea that all this history should be preserved. I am taking notes of all the carcasses along with pictures, and will save any threads that seem to be remarkable...and discard all the wrappings and patches that managed to keep the poor things together for their final destination. I've been doing the costume thing since 1976 and am rapidly getting free of the things I don't want to play with, and am basically diminishing the size of the costume project but retaining the construction and detail including jewelry and findings. Your books have been tremendously helpful to me in the past and I have discovered occasionally that I can almost take your pattern shapes as they exist on the page exactly as they are. Thank You for all your hard work. In my e-Bay travels last week I did net a wonderful pair of purple silk mules that had crewel embroidery on them for my late 18th C kit. Even the heel was ok! Happy hunting, Kathleen - Original Message - From: Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tea towels We have vintage clothing and textile shows here too (there's one this coming weekend), and I used to love going to them. But now I love eBay more, to the extent that, when I'm pressed for time, I don't even always go to the local shows. On eBay there's just so much more merchandise available, and new stuff every day (from all over the world), and it's so much easier and quicker to browse it. I've been collecting clothing and textiles,and related publications, since I was 16. The net has just opened up the market incredibly; even though I often used to buy from other geographic areas by mail. I'm not really much of a window shopper; I look for things to buy rather than just spending hours looking around. And I don't need to lose weight, so that's not a factor. I agree though, that walking is practical exercise, in that you can get somewhere as you do it. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Lloyd Mitchell wrote: Ah, but one misses out on the practical activity of treading all the dusty or muddy trails! A great way to walk off a few pounds. Also, the venture of the hand and eye in discovering potential bargains has its own pleasure. In our region, most of the reproductive linen has catered more to the multitudes of Battenberg enthusiast than good old birdseye and other interesting weaves. Huck cloths aplenty, too. Kathleen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Stiffening wool felt hats
In a message dated 3/13/2006 6:18:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does anyone have a recipe I could use to stiffen some hats? Again.hat lacquer. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ruffs
At 23:40 13/03/2006, you wrote: I've been meaning to try...in addition to some stiffening agent like starch or hat lacquer...zig-zaging some fishing line to the edge of the ruff. If you're attaching some lace to the edge with a narrow zig-zag, why not do it over some medium strength fishing line? If you get the right gauge, it could greatly help in achieving smooth, bouncy 8's. But I haven't tried it. It's as invisible as that nylon thread they sometimes do blind hems with, but it needs to have more body than the thread. I use gimp, available in haberdashery/notions stores, for tailoring buttonholes. Works very well. I believe fishing line works very well for those huge, Dutch style ruffs. You might need to use several rows for a really deep ruff though. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ruffs
Now I'm curious: how many people actually starch their ruffs after they're made like I do? And I'm curious if anyone has found something permanent to deal with the ruffs. There is a type of stuff sold at craft stores for making baskets out of lace doilies. It sets up permanently and supposedly doesn't wash out. I've used white glue thinned with water for craft items but never on clothing. Julie Straw stiffener, what you use on millinery straw (and hats) to keep it in shape, is pretty effective, and transparent. Use in a well ventilated room though - it can have odd effects. Suzi But what does it feel like against the skin? I'd expect it to be very irritating to have something stiff under my chin like that. Regular starch is resilient enough to not be too irritating. I have never had any complaints, and that is how I do all my ruffs. I wear them myself and I have skin like the Princess and the Pea, super sensitive. I know Jean used that method for ruffs for TV, and actors are notoriously fussy. She would not have put it in her book if lots of people complained - she'd have found another method. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Spanish medieval clothes book
I just got a fantastic new book today, Vestiduras Ricas. It is the catalog from an exhibit of the extant garments and fabrics that normally live in the Monasterio de las Huelgas in Spain. I have seen a smaller catalog from the museum at the monastery but when they mounted an exhibit at the Prado in Madrid, they went all out with a coffee table size book and all color pictures. Unfortunately, it is very expensive (~$75.00) but I think it was well worth it. I got it from http://www.artbooks.com/wc.dll?AB~home~cart=0 , a shop with an incredible selection of European art books, most expensive. It did take a long time to get here (this was my Valentine present). Janet ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Spanish medieval clothes book
Is it of much use for secular clothing? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com JAMES OGILVIE wrote: I just got a fantastic new book today, Vestiduras Ricas. It is the catalog from an exhibit of the extant garments and fabrics that normally live in the Monasterio de las Huelgas in Spain. I have seen a smaller catalog from the museum at the monastery but when they mounted an exhibit at the Prado in Madrid, they went all out with a coffee table size book and all color pictures. Unfortunately, it is very expensive (~$75.00) but I think it was well worth it. I got it from http://www.artbooks.com/wc.dll?AB~home~cart=0 , a shop with an incredible selection of European art books, most expensive. It did take a long time to get here (this was my Valentine present). Janet ___ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Re: ruffs and drawstring necklines
Thanks everyone for the help! Monica -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 5:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Re: ruffs and drawstring necklines I am under the impression that ruffs developed from pleatworked collars on shirts, chemises and partlets. Here's a website that covers some interesting research on pleatwork: http://www.bellomarisco.com/smocking.php I think you'll see that the necklines started out low and pleated (which we moderns have mistaken for a drawstring) and got higher and higher until a ruffle was formed by leaving a little bit of fabric free above the pleating, and from there it's easy to see how a detached ruff developed. And going back to a much earlier thread about historically-inspired modern clothes, I'm dying to make myself a blouse with a high, pleatworked collar. I have the fabric and everything all picked out. Now I just have to figure out how to stop time long enough to get it finished... Tea Rose ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Spanish medieval clothes book
On Mar 13, 2006, at 7:37 PM, Lavolta Press wrote: JAMES OGILVIE wrote: I just got a fantastic new book today, Vestiduras Ricas. It is the catalog from an exhibit of the extant garments and fabrics that normally live in the Monasterio de las Huelgas in Spain. I have seen a smaller catalog from the museum at the monastery but when they mounted an exhibit at the Prado in Madrid, they went all out with a coffee table size book and all color pictures. Unfortunately, it is very expensive (~$75.00) but I think it was well worth it. I got it from http://www.artbooks.com/wc.dll? AB~home~cart=0 , a shop with an incredible selection of European art books, most expensive. It did take a long time to get here (this was my Valentine present). Janet ___ Is it of much use for secular clothing? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com The collection is pretty much entirely secular -- it's primarily burial clothing of various nobles whose tombs are at the monastery. It's an incredible resource and hasn't been studied in anywhere near the depth it deserves to be. Heather -- Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Obsessed with underwear
On Mar 13, 2006, at 7:30 AM, Robin Netherton wrote: *coming soon to a volume of Medieval Clothing Textiles ... vol. 4 I hope (right, Heather?) *meekly* Yes, ma'am. Heather -- Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Spanish medieval clothes book
At 03:25 14/03/2006, you wrote: I just got a fantastic new book today, Vestiduras Ricas. It is the catalog from an exhibit of the extant garments and fabrics that normally live in the Monasterio de las Huelgas in Spain. I have seen a smaller catalog from the museum at the monastery but when they mounted an exhibit at the Prado in Madrid, they went all out with a coffee table size book and all color pictures. Unfortunately, it is very expensive (~$75.00) but I think it was well worth it. I got it from http://www.artbooks.com/wc.dll?AB~home~cart=0 , a shop with an incredible selection of European art books, most expensive. It did take a long time to get here (this was my Valentine present). I saw this wonderful exhibition in Madrid last year. There were a number of clothes on display, in remarkable condition, considering they were grave clothes. Unfortunately no photography was allowed, and I could not afford the catalogue(book). I think this is the same one on sale at the time. It is not a period I ever do, so I could not justify another expensive book!! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Theatre museum in London closing?
If anyone wants further information, I now have an update, which is a bit long winded, but will happily forward individually if required. I would like to see it. Thanks, Anne -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.1/279 - Release Date: 3/10/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Spanish medieval clothes book
There's a reason I'm called the Evil Book Lady, although usually it's for books I'm selling. Most of the clothes in the book are secular, although there are a few liturgical pieces. There are also textile fragments, pictures of the monastery and pages from illuminated manuscripts. Janet You are a very bad, bad person. [4 books and $200 later] A VERY bad bad person. And I mean that in the nicest possible way. :) Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: origin of the facial types thread
That's what I remember, as well, and it was at least 2, maybe 3 years ago, in winter. A Twelfth Night event for one of the west coast kingdoms, IIRC --Sue - Original Message - From: Gail Scott Finke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:54 AM Subject: [h-cost] Re: origin of the facial types thread The way I remember it, someone posted a web site of attendee photos at an American SCA event. A member who was a portrait photographer set up shop and took pictures of anyone who wanted them, as people do at dances and other functions. The original poster, I think, wanted information about a particular costume. But people were looking at many of the photos, and someone asked why it was that he/she could tell that this was a group of Americans without being told ahead of time. Various guesses were posted -- I remember someone saying that it was because so many had white, straight teeth -- but the concensus was the large variety of facial types. Gail Finke, who remembers this for some reason ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Title: Fashion and Fiction: Dress in Art and Literature in Stuart England
Saw this on my way to look at the Spanish Medieval book Janet recommended...thought some of you might be interested. Sg Item Number: 47054 *Title: Fashion and Fiction: Dress in Art and Literature in Stuart England* Author: RIBEIRO, AILEEN *Price: $65.00* ISBN: 0300109997 Description: New Haven and London: Yale University Press, 2006. 29cm., cloth, 387pp., 224 illus., ca. 80 in color. (Focusing on the rich visual culture of the seventeenth century, including portraits, engravings, fashion plates, and sculpture, and on literary sources—poetry, drama, essays, sermons—the distinguished historian of dress Aileen Ribeiro creates a fascinating account of Stuart dress and how it both reflected and influenced society. Supported by a wealth of illustrative images, she explores such varied themes as court costumes, the masque, the ways in which political and religious ideologies could be expressed in dress, and the importance of London as a fashion center. This beautiful book is an indispensable and authoritative account of what people wore and how it related to Stuart England’s cultural climate). ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
