[h-cost] Enough!!!!!..... and a return to what this list is supposed to be about.
The problem is not that Fran is harsh... Fran can be whatever she chooses. It's her life and her kharma. The problem is that Fran is harsh to people in a public forum to such an extent that she has a reputation that people should avoid her at all costs. Her harshness has led to people leaving e-lists of topics they enjoy. Her cop-out of telling us to use a filter is not acceptable. I shouldn't have to filter out someone because they cannot come up with the common decency to behave in a manner accepted by the society in which she is travelling. In this case, that society is this e-list. Clearly as a group we find her behavior unacceptable. She should either put on HER big girl pants and save her venom for those in her real life who can choose to walk away. We, as a group, joined this list to talk about HISTORIC COSTUME... not to have to listen to a bitter woman call people thieves and trolls. Perhaps she should make a list called FRAN and then she can talk about anything she wants in a manner that she chooses and anyone who wants to participate can join that list. Now my personal rant is over and I prefer to return to talking about historic costumes so that is what I am going to do. For example... I am considering a German gown similar to Duchess Katherine von Mecklenburg. http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach55.html The yellow looks like a damask to my eyes. Do you think it is? Or is it embroidery? Stamped velvelt? If I do it in a decent weight damask (I already have a nice golden yellow cotton damask), do you think that a silk velvet would have enough body to it to work right with the damask? Or would something else work better? Audrey Bergeron-Morin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, if you've been on that list any length of time, you'll probably have noticed that Fran *is* harsh. Personnally, I just delete her emails. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes
In a message dated 10/6/2007 1:52:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not one of those huge hoop skirts. Impossible to dance a waltz in that. Well, they waltzed quite a lot in hoops in the period. ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Enough!!!!!..... and a return to what this list is supposed to be about.
AMEN! Now back to the beautiful gown. Looks like damask to me. http://www.myspace.com/wildthangstreasures http://blog.myspace.com/wildthangstreasures http://groups.myspace.com/wildthangstreasures Beteena Paradise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is not that Fran is harsh... Fran can be whatever she chooses. It's her Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com http://groups.myspace.com/wildthangstreasures - Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What's your Dressmaker's Dummy Wearing?
Please let us have some photos to see, screeeam! out loud Bjarne - Original Message - From: Jane Pease [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 9:00 PM Subject: [h-cost] What's your Dressmaker's Dummy Wearing? A late Elizabethan wheel farthingale gown which, I begin to hope, may actually be done for the Jamestown Ball in a couple of weeks. Based loosely on the Ditchley portrait, the underdress is done, and an overbodice is coming along, to be attached to an overskirt. Still to do is the neck ruff and, of course, as much trimming as I can get done in whatever amount of time is left. Fortunately the stomacher and sleeves were trimmed prior to assembly. The Jamestown Ball is an 18th century ball to celebrate the 400th anniversary of the Jamestown colony in Virginia, and the invite says to come in any style of the last 400 years, and the earlier the better. The high-gussy Elizabethan style is too early to meet the qualifications, I know, but it is a ball, after all, and authenticity is not the main concern. At the moment, my main concern is how to dance while taking up all that real estate. Jane in Northern Virginia ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost]How about shunning?(Was Enough!!!!!.....)
I find it interesting that you mention karma because this type of conundrum has come up on several of my (very diverse) lists recently. Perhaps it is coming around as it was going around. At any rate, while I agree with you that Fran takes unacceptable liberties (ie. name calling and belittling) in her communications with others on this list, I am a believer in the right to free speech. There are even times when I enjoy what she has to say (for example, retrospectives on past fashions). The best solution would be if she cared enough to study and learn polite behavior, second best would be to take rants off list.The third solution if the above fail is not to engage in struggle with her, which is what many of us already do with filters, etc. In the old days it was called shunning and is quite effective, especially over the internet where we can walk away even more effectively than in person. In modified form, it is a time-honored parenting technique. My two cents, Laurie (mother of 4) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 03:13:32 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: Subject: [h-cost] Enough!. and a return to what this list is supposed to be about. The problem is not that Fran is harsh... Fran can be whatever she chooses. It's her life and her kharma. The problem is that Fran is harsh to people in a public forum to such an extent that she has a reputation that people should avoid her at all costs. Her harshness has led to people leaving e-lists of topics they enjoy. Her cop-out of telling us to use a filter is not acceptable. I shouldn't have to filter out someone because they cannot come up with the common decency to behave in a manner accepted by the society in which she is travelling. In this case, that society is this e-list. Clearly as a group we find her behavior unacceptable. She should either put on HER big girl pants and save her venom for those in her real life who can choose to walk away. We, as a group, joined this list to talk about HISTORIC COSTUME... not to have to listen to a bitter woman call people thieves and trolls. Perhaps she should make a list called FRAN and then she can talk about anything she wants in a manner that she chooses and anyone who wants to participate can join that list. _ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHMloc=us___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] German gown damask
On Oct 6, 2007, at 6:13 AM, Beteena Paradise wrote: The yellow looks like a damask to my eyes. Do you think it is? Or is it embroidery? Stamped velvelt? If I do it in a decent weight damask (I already have a nice golden yellow cotton damask), do you think that a silk velvet would have enough body to it to work right with the damask? Or would something else work better? The yellow could also be a figured cloth-of-gold. Silk velvet (or what's called silk velvet today) is too limp to behave well in this context, but it's possible that you could underline it with something to stiffen it up. It would be tricky to control the layers, since the velvet will want to crawl out the door when you try to sew it. If you do want to try this, I'd recommend first hand-basting the velvet to the underlining along all of the stitching lines, then hand- basting the underlined pieces to the rest before you sew it on the machine. Even better would be hand-sewing the whole thing, as you can control it much more easily that way. Best would be padstitching the velvet to the underlining, then hand-sewing the whole thing...how much time have you got?? Good luck, Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Enough!!!!!..... and a return to what this list issupposed to be about.
I absolutely agreed with everything you said, and the brocade gown looks lovely. I think your idea of silk velvet is probably a good idea. I think anything heavier would not give you the same look as the painting and would definitely affect the flow of the gown. I can't wait to see it when you're finished--be sure to post pictures. LuAnn - Original Message - From: Beteena Paradisemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costumemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 3:13 AM Subject: [h-cost] Enough!. and a return to what this list issupposed to be about. The problem is not that Fran is harsh... Fran can be whatever she chooses. It's her life and her kharma. The problem is that Fran is harsh to people in a public forum to such an extent that she has a reputation that people should avoid her at all costs. Her harshness has led to people leaving e-lists of topics they enjoy. Her cop-out of telling us to use a filter is not acceptable. I shouldn't have to filter out someone because they cannot come up with the common decency to behave in a manner accepted by the society in which she is travelling. In this case, that society is this e-list. Clearly as a group we find her behavior unacceptable. She should either put on HER big girl pants and save her venom for those in her real life who can choose to walk away. We, as a group, joined this list to talk about HISTORIC COSTUME... not to have to listen to a bitter woman call people thieves and trolls. Perhaps she should make a list called FRAN and then she can talk about anything she wants in a manner that she chooses and anyone who wants to participate can join that list. Now my personal rant is over and I prefer to return to talking about historic costumes so that is what I am going to do. For example... I am considering a German gown similar to Duchess Katherine von Mecklenburg. http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach55.htmlhttp://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach55.html The yellow looks like a damask to my eyes. Do you think it is? Or is it embroidery? Stamped velvelt? If I do it in a decent weight damask (I already have a nice golden yellow cotton damask), do you think that a silk velvet would have enough body to it to work right with the damask? Or would something else work better? Audrey Bergeron-Morin [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, if you've been on that list any length of time, you'll probably have noticed that Fran *is* harsh. Personnally, I just delete her emails. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.commailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumehttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes
Actually, a lot of the maneuverability issues depend on whether you're using a modern substitute hoop that has circular hoops all the way around suspended in a drawstring petticoat, or if you have a more accurate cage crinoline which a) shifts the weight of the skirts to the back and b) more importantly, has a break in the hooping along the front. That gap (for lack of a better word) is the key to maneuverability in a hoop--you can sit, you can dance, you can do LOTS of things when the gap is there that become cumbersome when it isn't. LuAnn - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:11 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes In a message dated 10/6/2007 1:52:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not one of those huge hoop skirts. Impossible to dance a waltz in that. Well, they waltzed quite a lot in hoops in the period. ** See what's new at http://www.aol.comhttp://www.aol.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.commailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumehttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost]The last word? Re: [h-cost]How about shunning?(Was Enough!!!!!.....)
The trouble with clashes over manners, personalities, or offenses is that each of those involved wants to have the last word in the argument, whether it be a final word of self-defense or a final word of accusation or justification. But getting the last word is impossible if everybody wants it. I enjoy this list because so many knowledgeable and artistic and dedicated people are so willing to share their knowledge, experience, and perspective, not only with the equally knowledgeable or equally educated or equally professional but also with the curious, the neophyte, the self-taught, and the amateur. I have benefited at one time or another from postings by almost everybody else on this list, including Fran. I'd like the REAL last word to be: let's just stop going on about this sort of thing. If someone posts information that is inaccurate or only one part of the story, of course others should correct or add to the information. If someone posts an idea or opinion about the kinds of things this List properly addresses, then of course others should chime in. But if someone makes a remark that others consider inappropriate, can't we just shrug, murmur to ourselves oh, there she (or he) goes again (or even what a jackass), and then let the thing die on the vine? If someone wants to stop reading someone else's posts, isn't that an individual decision not necessary to announce? If someone wants to get into a personal dispute, can't it be done using personal e-mail addresses? If I want to open h-cost messages in order to learn about costume, fashion, sewing techniques, and other related subjects (the copyrights discussion was very interesting and very useful to me...for awhile...), shouldn't I be able to do that without having to guess which of 60 messages on a subject are worthwhile to me and which are merely angry or defensive people trying to have the last word? That, at least, is my last word. PLEASE, no need to comment on it! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Oct 6, 2007, at 12:35 PM, zelda crusher wrote: I find it interesting that you mention karma because this type of conundrum has come up on several of my (very diverse) lists recently. Perhaps it is coming around as it was going around. At any rate, while I agree with you that Fran takes unacceptable liberties (ie. name calling and belittling) in her communications with others on this list, I am a believer in the right to free speech. There are even times when I enjoy what she has to say (for example, retrospectives on past fashions). The best solution would be if she cared enough to study and learn polite behavior, second best would be to take rants off list.The third solution if the above fail is not to engage in struggle with her, which is what many of us already do with filters, etc. In the old days it was called shunning and is quite effective, especially over the internet where we can walk away even more effectively than in person. In modified form, it is a time-honored parenting technique. My two cents, Laurie (mother of 4) Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 03:13:32 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; h-costume- [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: Subject: [h-cost] Enough!. and a return to what this list is supposed to be about. The problem is not that Fran is harsh... Fran can be whatever she chooses. It's her life and her kharma. The problem is that Fran is harsh to people in a public forum to such an extent that she has a reputation that people should avoid her at all costs. Her harshness has led to people leaving e-lists of topics they enjoy. Her cop-out of telling us to use a filter is not acceptable. I shouldn't have to filter out someone because they cannot come up with the common decency to behave in a manner accepted by the society in which she is travelling. In this case, that society is this e-list. Clearly as a group we find her behavior unacceptable. She should either put on HER big girl pants and save her venom for those in her real life who can choose to walk away. We, as a group, joined this list to talk about HISTORIC COSTUME... not to have to listen to a bitter woman call people thieves and trolls. Perhaps she should make a list called FRAN and then she can talk about anything she wants in a manner that she chooses and anyone who wants to participate can join that list. _ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com? ocid=TXT_TAGHMloc=us___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Enough!!!!!..... and a return to what this list is supposed to be about.
Beteena Paradise wrote: The problem is not that Fran is harsh... Fran can be whatever she chooses. It's her life and her kharma. You are absolutely right. I DO do exactly what I want, whether I want to be nice or not--which is what seems to annoy people like you. This is why, on this and h-needlework, you’re hoping to make me cringe by the awful threat of not buying a book. It’s not that I’m not “nice”—your screaming uncontrollably and to hundreds of people about how much you dislike someone you’re never met, and with whom you interacted directly for the first time two weeks ago (see below), baldly lying about “people leaving lists,” calling names like “bitter woman,” urging me to go away, and trying to get everyone else to join in on “let’s kick Fran out, we don’t want her in our little costuming clique!” is hardly “polite.” Beteena, you already publicly screamed at me in the course of a recent copyright discussion on the historic needlework list—just because you disagreed with my views. And already tried all the same tricks of trying to jerk my chain by threatening not to buy my books, etc., etc. _Your_ cop out of “If I don’t like someone they should just automatically go away from wherever I happen to want to be” is not acceptable. Mature people get over the idea that there are some people in many public situations—co-workers, club members, e-list members, even their relatives--whom they dislike. They learn to live with it. I mean, you dislike me. So what. Big deal. Who cares. So, as long as you quit attacking me, and getting your friends to join in more public or private hate-mail campaigns, I won’t attack you. So now I’ll make the usual statement to end a flame to try and convince everyone I didn’t write it at all, or to justify everything I said earlier, because I was really only interested in costuming all along—just like several Beteena and several other people on this forum. Here goes: Let’s get back to costuming! See, I said it too! Oh, right, guess I have to come up with a topic now, one to prove that I really make costumes; since people are always trying to assert that I really don’t sew, or that I’m not really interested in costuming--with no evidence to prove either of course, and plenty to the contrary. Let’s see: Well, what I’ve been doing, in the relatively scant time I get off staring at a monitor (I can’t sew _all_ day because I have to work), is I bought some tank dresses off Dharma Trading, which were extra-long on me because I’m short. I dyed them, put U-shaped bias-binding casings up each side, and ran a drawstring up each. Voila, an exact duplicate of an expensive designer “parachute” tank dress I saw on a website. I’d like to provide links to both, but both have been taken off the site. Pity, because in California at least, tank dresses do very well as jumpers this time of year. Basically, being short has been a real advantage to me recently. The other thing I’ve been doing, and that anyone can do if they wish, is to shorten long, full skirts that are too long by “swagging” them. It’s sort of the same principle as making a tuck, only you don’t sew it down. I put the skirt on a dress form and figure out where to put the “tuck” so I get something that looks nicely “swagged,” and of course I also figure out how deep to make the “tuck.” I sew a row of buttons all round, towards the bottom of the skirt, about a foot apart, or somewhat less. Then I sew button loops lower down, which of course go over the buttons. Of course the loops can be unbuttoned whenever you want the skirt longer and straighter, giving you two style options. Only since I’ve been using it as a hemming method, I don’t. I’ve “parachuted” a couple of skirts to shorten them too, like the tank dresses above. The other thing I’ve done, is shorten skirts by pleating them at the bottom. You can do this at intervals too, to get a “swagged” effect, only it’s permanent. I really like doing alterations, and “fixing things up.” It has a problem-solving aspect that appeals to me. I especially like it when I can make the garment look better than it did at first, as well as fitting better. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Enough!!!!!..... and a return to what this list is supposed to be about.
Must have been someone else. I'm not on that list or any of the other lists you are on. This is my only e-list. Though I have endured your rants on this list both before and after my 5 year hiatus, this was the first time I have ever bothered to speak out against your behavior. Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Beteena, you already publicly screamed at me in the course of a recent copyright discussion on the historic needlework listjust because you disagreed with my views. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]How about shunning?(Was Enough!!!!!.....)
The best solution would be if she cared enough to study and learn polite behavior Maybe, Zelda, someone in addition to you could display some. Fran ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Enough!!!!!..... and a return to what this list is supposed to be about.
It does indeed look like damask to me, also, but I'm not an expert. Also, the second red stripe - it looks to me like it's been laid over the damask and reverse appliqued (design cut out of the red and stitched rather than the yellow being applied on top of the red). What do you think? It's a beautiful gown and hope to see pics of the finished product. Shirley Beteena Paradise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... I am considering a German gown similar to Duchess Katherine von Mecklenburg. http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach55.html The yellow looks like a damask to my eyes. Do you think it is? Or is it embroidery? Stamped velvelt? If I do it in a decent weight damask (I already have a nice golden yellow cotton damask), do you think that a silk velvet would have enough body to it to work right with the damask? Or would something else work better? test'; - Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing?
Hi! Many apologies with being late in replying, but I don't check my e-mails as much as I should!? My dressmakers dummy is currently wearing a white faux fur Russian hat edged in pearls.? No current project on the go, as I am taking my daughter to Disneyland Paris soon, and too busy with an over-exicted 5 year old under my feet! With Regards Jayne -Original Message- From: Cin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-cost [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 8.14pm Subject: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing? I'm bored with the medical, trademarks copyrights discussions. Any chance we can return to our regularly scheduled topic? Please? What's your dressmakers dummy wearing? --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Get a FREE AOL Email account with unlimited storage. Plus, share and store photos and experience exclusively recorded live music Sessions from your favourite artists. Find out more at http://info.aol.co.uk/joinnow/?ncid=548. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Enough!!!!!..... and a return to what this list is supposed to be about.
Though I have endured your rants on this list both before and after my 5 year hiatus, this was the first time I have ever bothered to speak out against your behavior. And this is the first time I've bothered to speak out against _yours_. Why don't you show me what it's like to be polite, tolerant, caring about hurting other people's feelings, etc.? Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Change Subject Lines
Pt. It would really help us all to change the subject header when we change topics. Every time I see the others, the ones related to the flame war, I just delete them unread. I'm sure I'm not the only one! ::Linda:: ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] polonaise jacket
A lady friend from Gustavs Skål, sended me a pattern of a polonaise jacket 1785-90. Its supposed to be me who sew it and embroider it for her. But i have never seen the pattern before. I think its a pattern she made herself. In the front it has a compere closing, looking like a stomacher with slanted lines in A- form of the jacket sides. What i dont understand about the pattern is, that the jacket dont have any pleats in the waistline the skirt width is achieved by slanting seams, 2 center back pieces, 2 side pieces and 2 front pieces. Would it not be more appropriate to make the width of the skirt bigger and make more room for pleats in stead of slanting lines? The shape of the jacket is to be more of a bustle pad than a round pad. ?? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Request for 18th C Costume Book recommendations
Gentles of the List, I have a young grand-daughter who has become deeply interested in 18th C high-status European fashions after seeing the most-recently-mdae Cinderella film. As a Christmas Present, my Lady and I would like to give our grand-daughter a couple of profusely-illustrated reference books about 18th C. Fashions as starters for a personal reference library for her new interest. 18th C. European fashions are not a subject I have had any reason to research - [though I DO know the military history in considerable depth], and I have no reference Base to help me. Would Members of the List be good enough to make Book suggestions to help us pruchase a couple of sutiable reference books for our grand-daughter? Julian Wilson, dwelling in old Jersey, [aka in the SCA as Matthew Baker, a veteran soldier of the late 15thC.]. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] cotton wool
Dawn, thank you for this bit of info. I really didn't know! But I actually like the 'lumpy bumpy texture... it just seems more tactile-y interesting. ;) ::Linda:: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn When it's made up and washed it definitely has that lumpy bumpy look and feel that poly just can't imitate. Lumpy bumpy is a 20th century phenomena that only happens when quilts get put into a washing machine. In the 1800's a quilt would have been hung and beaten, spot cleaned when necessary, and rarely completely emerged in water. Water makes the quilt quite heavy -- one person would have trouble lifting it -- and weakens the cotton fibers making them shred. Normally the filling would have remained quite flat within the quilt. You can buy raw cotton by the bale here: http://www.cottonman.com/ Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Request for 18th C Costume Book recommendations
I took most of the following info out of the entries I maintain to put for book and magazine article bibliographies, etc. * Fukai, Akiko, Tamami Suoh, Miki Iwagami, Reiko Koga, and Rii Nie. The Collection of the Kyoto Costume Institute: Fashion: A History from the 18th to the 20th Century. Köln: Taschen, 2002. This obviously does not focus entirely on the 18th century. But it does include all or most of the pictures of a couple of books the Kyoto Costume Institute DID publish on the 18th century, and which I think are now out of print. I think there are several very similar editions of this book--in one volume, in two volumes, hardcover, paperback. etc. I don't recall that there's a ton of difference between them, however. * Los Angeles County Museum of Art. An Elegant Art: Fashion and Fantasy in the Eighteenth Century. New York: Harry N. Abrams, 1983. An exhibit catalog with informative essays on fashionable and fancy dress, fabrics, decoration, and deportment. Men's and women's clothes. * Baumgarten, Linda and John Watson. Costume Close-Up: Clothing Construction and Pattern 1750-1790. New York: Costume Fashion Press, 1999. Scale drafts, photos, and detailed descriptions of the original construction and decoration of 28 women’s and men’s garments. Al of the above are large, illustrated, in color, and otherwise eminently suitable as gifts. There's also an in-print museum catalog, _18th-Century Costume in the National Museums and Galleries of Merseyside_, which I haven't entered in the file. It's still somewhere in a pile on my sewing room floor. I recall it as a rather small but nice museum catalog. There's a nice little set of volumes of 18th-century and 19th-century accessories from the Snowshill museum--try searching on Snowshill on Amazon. Again, they are on a floor somewhere and not entered in my bibliography file. Hope this helps. Fran Lavolta Press Book on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com julian wilson wrote: Gentles of the List, I have a young grand-daughter who has become deeply interested in 18th C high-status European fashions after seeing the most-recently-mdae Cinderella film. As a Christmas Present, my Lady and I would like to give our grand-daughter a couple of profusely-illustrated reference books about 18th C. Fashions as starters for a personal reference library for her new interest. 18th C. European fashions are not a subject I have had any reason to research - [though I DO know the military history in considerable depth], and I have no reference Base to help me. Would Members of the List be good enough to make Book suggestions to help us pruchase a couple of sutiable reference books for our grand-daughter? Julian Wilson, dwelling in old Jersey, [aka in the SCA as Matthew Baker, a veteran soldier of the late 15thC.]. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Request for 18th C Costume Book recommendations
Greetings to another resident of Insulae Draconis :) I really like the book What Clothes Reveal http://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Clothes-Reveal-Williamsburg-Decorative/dp/0300095805/ref=sr_1_1/203-4570731-7562354?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1191705583sr=8-1 It is focused on 18th c American fashions but the images are gorgeous and it shows both men's and women's fashions. julian wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a Christmas Present, my Lady and I would like to give our grand-daughter a couple of profusely-illustrated reference books about 18th C. Fashions as starters for a personal reference library for her new interest. Julian Wilson, dwelling in old Jersey, [aka in the SCA as Matthew Baker, a veteran soldier of the late 15thC.]. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Enough!!!!!.....Cranach gown
I just finished my first attempt at a Cranach gown and would love to compare notes with you Beteena, if you're interested. There's a few ways you could deal with the guards, either sewing them on to an already completed skirt, which seems to me to be the best way to get a good drape to the skirt, or assemble the skirt in many pieces. From the painting you linked, I'd guess that the middle band is appliqued or the cut-and-slash method. I'd think you'd be safe doing a damask, but I'd definately line it. I was short on fabric and am convinced that lining would have helped, so would having enough to make a fuller skirt that wasn't box pleated. Have you given any thought to patterns yet? -Amy Beteena Paradise wrote: ... I am considering a German gown similar to Duchess Katherine von Mecklenburg. http://www.abcgallery.com/C/cranach/cranach55.html The yellow looks like a damask to my eyes. Do you think it is? Or is it embroidery? Stamped velvelt? If I do it in a decent weight damask (I already have a nice golden yellow cotton damask), do you think that a silk velvet would have enough body to it to work right with the damask? Or would something else work better? _ Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Request for 18th C Costume Book recommendations
julian wilson wrote: As a Christmas Present, my Lady and I would like to give our grand-daughter a couple of profusely-illustrated reference books about 18th C. Fashions as starters for a personal reference library for her new interest. These are not cheap books (most of them anyway) but they are some of the best for the period. Amazon.com carries most of them, but not always at the best price. _Patterns of Fashion I: 1660-1860 , by Janet Arnold. Photos, close-ups, description, and scale diagrams of actual garments. I highly recommend this. _Historical Fashion in Detail: The 17th and 18th Centuries_ by Avril Hart, Susan North. Eye candy, close-ups, and some detailed drawings -- but no patterns. Recommended. _The Cut of Women's Clothes, 1600-1930_ and _The Cut of Men's Clothes: 1600-1900 _ by Norah Waugh. Pictures, scale diagrams of surviving garments, textual discussion and descriptive quotes from period sources. Highly recommended. _Everyday Dress of Rural America, 1783-1800: With Instructions and Patterns_ by Merideth Wright. Drawings, descriptions, and scale diagrams of early every day dress. Aimed at the beginning re-enactor, but good for someone who's not making a silk ball gown right off the bat. Recommended. _Fitting Proper_ by Sharon Ann Burnston. Photos and instructions. Another book aimed at re-enactors, very nicely done. Recommended. _Dangerous Liaisons: Fashion and Furniture in the Eighteenth Century_ (Metropolitan Museum of Art) by Harold Koda, Andrew Bolton, and Mimi Hellman. Eye candy. Photos and text. Gorgeous, but maybe not as useful for a beginner. _What Clothes Reveal: The Language of Clothing in Colonial and Federal America_ by Linda Baumgarten. I'm not familiar with this one, but it looks promising and has good reviews. _Costume Close Up: Clothing Construction and Pattern, 1750-1790_ by Linda Baumgarten, John Watson, and Florine Carr. Photos, descriptive text, and scale diagrams with instructions. Based on the collection at Williamsburg. Aimed at the re-enactor, very nicely done. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Request for 18th C Costume Book recommendations
As a Christmas Present, my Lady and I would like to give our grand-daughter a couple of profusely-illustrated reference books about 18th C. Fashions as starters for a personal reference library for her new interest. Is it a start of a library, or a start in constuming/reenactment? Lots of good books have been recommended, both the eye-candy originals and references complete with pattern drafts. In the reenactment community, 'Whatever Shall I Wear, by Mara Riley ad illustrated by Kate Johnson, is a good starter book, very practical and inexpensive. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Request for 18th C Costume Book recommendations
The Metropolitan Museum of art did a catalogue of the same title for it's Dangerous Liasons show. The pictures age gorgeous and the manequins are posed in social groups. I am pretty sure you can get it on Amazon. Monica - Original Message - From: Beteena Paradise Date: Saturday, October 6, 2007 5:24 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Request for 18th C Costume Book recommendations To: Historical Costume Greetings to another resident of Insulae Draconis :) I really like the book What Clothes Reveal http://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Clothes-Reveal-Williamsburg- Decorative/dp/0300095805/ref=sr_1_1/203-4570731- 7562354?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1191705583sr=8-1 It is focused on 18th c American fashions but the images are gorgeous and it shows both men's and women's fashions. julian wilson wrote: As a Christmas Present, my Lady and I would like to give our grand-daughter a couple of profusely-illustrated reference books about 18th C. Fashions as starters for a personal reference library for her new interest. Julian Wilson, dwelling in old Jersey, [aka in the SCA as Matthew Baker, a veteran soldier of the late 15thC.]. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] return to what this list is supposed to be about.
Neat ideas - I'm short, too. Patty From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Lavolta Press Sent: Sat 10/6/2007 2:06 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Enough!. and a return to what this listis supposed to be about. Basically, being short has been a real advantage to me recently. The other thing I've been doing, and that anyone can do if they wish, is to shorten long, full skirts that are too long by swagging them. It's sort of the same principle as making a tuck, only you don't sew it down. I put the skirt on a dress form and figure out where to put the tuck so I get something that looks nicely swagged, and of course I also figure out how deep to make the tuck. I sew a row of buttons all round, towards the bottom of the skirt, about a foot apart, or somewhat less. Then I sew button loops lower down, which of course go over the buttons. Of course the loops can be unbuttoned whenever you want the skirt longer and straighter, giving you two style options. Only since I've been using it as a hemming method, I don't. I've parachuted a couple of skirts to shorten them too, like the tank dresses above. The other thing I've done, is shorten skirts by pleating them at the bottom. You can do this at intervals too, to get a swagged effect, only it's permanent. I really like doing alterations, and fixing things up. It has a problem-solving aspect that appeals to me. I especially like it when I can make the garment look better than it did at first, as well as fitting better. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com http://www.lavoltapress.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Request for 18th C Costume Book recommendations
Yes, I forgot about that one! Fran Beteena Paradise wrote: Greetings to another resident of Insulae Draconis :) I really like the book What Clothes Reveal http://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Clothes-Reveal-Williamsburg-Decorative/dp/0300095805/ref=sr_1_1/203-4570731-7562354?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1191705583sr=8-1 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Cranach gown
I already have the Period Patterns one, but my previous experience with them is that it is so much work to refit the pattern that I could just as well create the pattern from scratch. Which I might just do. ;-) Otherwise I may get Kass' german ladies pattern. What did you use? Also, I was thinking of doing the alternating colors of the skirts by sewing together the bands of fabric instead of applique (reverse or regular). That is why I was concerned about he difference in weight between the damask and the silk velvet. But I could get a heavier cotton velvet which might work better and not be as slippery. I am also thinking of doing a plainer version in wool first to get the kinks worked out and then do one in the grander fabrics. Amy Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you given any thought to patterns yet? -Amy ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Request for 18th C Costume Book recommendations
My assumption (maybe I should have asked) was that for a gift book, the givers often want something that looks lavish; and that most costumers seem to start out with eye candy/inspiration. And they never quit _liking_ eye candy, but after a while they additionally want more detailed information, and more technical information, such as pattern drafts in their libraries. But they don't necessarily want it all right away. For pattern books, there's also the good old: Gehret, Ellen J. Rural Pennsylvania Clothing. York: Liberty Cap Books, 1976. Scale drafts, hand-sewing instructions, and information on materials for colonial clothes. Which many people use for clothing not specific to rural Pennsylvania. It's a good book, and it's a well-produced book, but it's not a super-lavish book. Fran Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Is it a start of a library, or a start in constuming/reenactment? Lots of good books have been recommended, both the eye-candy originals and references complete with pattern drafts. In the reenactment community, 'Whatever Shall I Wear, by Mara Riley ad illustrated by Kate Johnson, is a good starter book, very practical and inexpensive. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Alterations
Another thing I've been doing for full sleeves (both blouses and sweaters) that are too long is this: Obviously, you can usually hem a free-floating sleeve bottom or move up a cuff. And I've done a lot of both over the years. (Since my father, my brother, and my husband all have short arms too,I have removed and replaced a lot of cuffs.) But my newly favorite technique is to use some thin seam binding (I usually just buy the synthetic/silky stuff in a matching color, but if I have some suitable ribbon scraps around, I use those), sew it inside the sleeve in one or two places higher up on the sleeve, run some narrow elastic through to fit my arm at the place(s) where I want the sleeve to fall, and thereby puff the sleeve while also shortening it. What I've always liked for straight blouse sleeves is to use a row of visible 1/2 tucks near the bottom, when I can, but that only works for certain women's styles. If you have a straight or somewhat flared sleeve with no cuff, and there is a lot of decoration at the bottom of the sleeve, you can just cut the bottom off right above the decoration, cut off some fabric from the temporary new bottom, and then sew the decorated part back on for a cuff look. Obviously, some seam tapering is also necessary if the two parts no longer fit after you have cut out some middle. Really, sometimes I'd rather do alterations than sew from scratch. Especially when I'm really busy and need small projects. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Rickard, Patty wrote: Neat ideas - I'm short, too. Patty ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: ...what's your dressmaker's dummy wearing?
Verity is attired in: a generic Italian Ren cotton chemise based on one in Cut My Cote, and the orange polyester satin 1490's Florentine dress that I made for CostumeCon 25 [the challenge merely said to wear orange...]. Both pieces are there to remind me to get to work on the mending! I have a bad habit of stepping on my own hems when going up stairs. On the cutting table, I've got the pieces of a black silk split skirt pinned together [The Sewing Workshop's Tahoe Pant pattern]. In a bag next to the sewing machine are the pieces of an Elizabethan high- necked smock that I'm no closer to finishing than I was in April Suzanne On Oct 5, 2007, at 7:29 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: [h-cost] What's your dressmakers dummy wearing? I'm bored with the medical, trademarks copyrights discussions. Any chance we can return to our regularly scheduled topic? Please? What's your dressmakers dummy wearing? --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] polonaise jacket
There is a caraco in Patterns of Fashion, and I think it's similar, without pleats or maybe it has minimal pleats. If she made the pattern herself, then perhaps she has a preference. Maybe she took it from an original. Either way, if you're making the jacket for her you can ask about the design and whether she wants it to be changed. -Carol A lady friend from Gustavs Skål, sended me a pattern of a polonaise jacket 1785-90. Its supposed to be me who sew it and embroider it for her. But i have never seen the pattern before. I think its a pattern she made herself. In the front it has a compere closing, looking like a stomacher with slanted lines in A- form of the jacket sides. What i dont understand about the pattern is, that the jacket dont have any pleats in the waistline the skirt width is achieved by slanting seams, 2 center back pieces, 2 side pieces and 2 front pieces. Would it not be more appropriate to make the width of the skirt bigger and make more room for pleats in stead of slanting lines? The shape of the jacket is to be more of a bustle pad than a round pad. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
re [h-cost] what's on the dress form
Right now, I have on my dress form the toile for my niece's wedding dress. It will be silk duchess satin modeled off of the Paulina Astor portrait at the Huntington Library with the decorative elements of a Charles F. Worth gown. Pictures! Design sketches? Do you think we could maybe have a teensy peek? --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes
In a message dated 10/6/2007 10:56:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, they waltzed quite a lot in hoops in the period. Ah, but they had practice. I think a modern bride would be wise to practice, too, if she chose a hoop skirt--not only dancing, but walking, sitting, getting in and out of a vehicle. . . . Ann Wass ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes
Ah, yes, the kowtow scene in King and I springs to mind A personal pet peeve is brides stomping around in their gowns because they never wear skirts and don't know how to move in them... hoop or no hoop... Astrida -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 10/6/2007 9:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes In a message dated 10/6/2007 10:56:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, they waltzed quite a lot in hoops in the period. Ah, but they had practice. I think a modern bride would be wise to practice, too, if she chose a hoop skirt--not only dancing, but walking, sitting, getting in and out of a vehicle. . . . Ann Wass ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] wedding in historical costumes, pardner
Some friends who do some costuming decided to have an historical themed wedding, Victorian era. I went. They did not realise that Wild West counts as Victorian. Ya-ha... -C. This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes, pardner
In a message dated 10/6/2007 9:31:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: They did not realise that Wild West counts as Victorian. Ya-ha... I think you mean, Yeee-haa. That was cruel--funny, but cruel. Well, better than going as Victoria in widowhood, I guess. Ann Wass ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 6, Issue 475
Haha... I'm continually telling brides on a wedding forum I post to to practise walking in their dresses before the day. They rarely pay any attnetion, but hey, I try! :o) In a message dated 07/10/2007 02:28:23 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ah, yes, the kowtow scene in King and I springs to mind A personal pet peeve is brides stomping around in their gowns because they never wear skirts and don't know how to move in them... hoop or no hoop... ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Request for 18th C Costume Book recommendations
In a message dated 10/6/2007 6:41:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would like to give our grand-daughter a couple of profusely-illustrated reference books about 18th C. Fashions as starters for a personal reference library for her new interest. You say she is young--just how old is she? As beautiful as it is, I would not, for example, give the catalogue for Dangerous Liaisons to someone too young--it is definitely rated PG-13. Actually, the pictures are great, but the text would probably go over her head (heck, it practically goes over MY head), so maybe it would be all right. Any of the heavy drafting books, like Arnold, also, I think would not be as much fun for a really young beginner. And if she doesn't already know how to sew, I would get her started, just in case she does decide to do living history. Maybe give her lessons as a gift, if you can't do it yourself. I got intimately acquainted with the few costume books in my high school library. One I don't remember the name of, and haven't seen it since, but I was very taken by the two-page spread of David's painting of Napoleon's coronation--I dressed my Barbie like Josephine for a high school project, and I still have that dress. Another was Wilcox's Mode in Costume. I know, I know, it's terrible, but it helped get me started--I made paper doll dresses like some of my favorites! I found a cheap used copy over 20 years ago, so it is on my bookshelf. Ann Wass Ann Wass Ann Wass ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes
In a message dated 10/6/2007 1:40:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually, a lot of the maneuverability issues depend on whether you're using a modern substitute hoop that has circular hoops all the way around suspended in a drawstring petticoat, or if you have a more accurate cage crinoline which a) shifts the weight of the skirts to the back and b) more importantly, has a break in the hooping along the front. That gap (for lack of a better word) is the key to maneuverability in a hoop--you can sit, you can dance, you can do LOTS of things when the gap is there that become cumbersome when it isn't. ** True. But still, even though cage crinolines were numerous, there are also examples of hooped petticoats, and hoops start out being circular before moving into that trained, elongated form you see near the end of the period. So there was still a whole lotta waltzing going on in circular, hooped petticoats. Of course no one said it was easy! ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes
That's something I've recommended to every bride I've sewn for, or even just had a long conversation about their dress with. Ditto for a few early 20 somethings I've done college formals for. Most women simply have no experience with anything longer than midcalf, never mind full skirts, and don't know how to move in a dress with structure. I grew up wearing the longest skirts my mother would let me wear and the first bride a made a gown for had perfect posture and knew how to handle a skirt. Then I made my college roommate's first formal dress. Wow! The lessons started with taking her out to buy her first pair of real shoes - and trying to teach her how to walk in them (1 1/2 heels at the most) instead of her usual sneakers. I though the shoe salesman would die trying not to laugh. Just imagine the most frumpy, introverted, asexual college student you can, along with a very girly little pixie yelling at her no, no, no, put you heel down before your toes! And don't spin on your heels, turn on your toes In another year I had her dressing in girl clothes and even combing her hair. (I corrupted her in a few other ways too) Beth Chamberlain -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 9:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes In a message dated 10/6/2007 10:56:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, they waltzed quite a lot in hoops in the period. Ah, but they had practice. I think a modern bride would be wise to practice, too, if she chose a hoop skirt--not only dancing, but walking, sitting, getting in and out of a vehicle. . . . Ann Wass ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Request for 18th C Costume Book recommendations
The first costuming book I ever had was _The Pictorial Encyclopedia of Fashion_, by Ludmila Kybalova et al. (It's a translation.) I bought it from a remainder house for $1 or something, by mail, when I was 15 or 16. I thought it was incredibly cool. My parents had been buying me Victorian and Edwardian clothes at estate auctions for years, but I had had no idea how to date them, or really what they meant. Then a little while later I got Millia Davenport's _The Book of Costume_ and Francois Boucher's _History of Costume_. Even more cool, three whole books on historic costume! I still have them all. They're not exactly in-depth, of course, but it was not such a bad thing to have the equivalent of a history of Western Civilization lecture course on costume before I learned anything more detailed. It gave me a framework for understanding what went where, era-wise. I started working on constucting costumes taking clothing design courses in college, which was a real divergence from what all the other students were doing (although one woman in a couple of courses I took was making a lot of authentic ethnic clothing). Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 10/6/2007 6:41:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would like to give our grand-daughter a couple of profusely-illustrated reference books about 18th C. Fashions as starters for a personal reference library for her new interest. You say she is young--just how old is she? As beautiful as it is, I would not, for example, give the catalogue for Dangerous Liaisons to someone too young--it is definitely rated PG-13. Actually, the pictures are great, but the text would probably go over her head (heck, it practically goes over MY head), so maybe it would be all right. Any of the heavy drafting books, like Arnold, also, I think would not be as much fun for a really young beginner. And if she doesn't already know how to sew, I would get her started, just in case she does decide to do living history. Maybe give her lessons as a gift, if you can't do it yourself. I got intimately acquainted with the few costume books in my high school library. One I don't remember the name of, and haven't seen it since, but I was very taken by the two-page spread of David's painting of Napoleon's coronation--I dressed my Barbie like Josephine for a high school project, and I still have that dress. Another was Wilcox's Mode in Costume. I know, I know, it's terrible, but it helped get me started--I made paper doll dresses like some of my favorites! I found a cheap used copy over 20 years ago, so it is on my bookshelf. Ann Wass Ann Wass Ann Wass ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes, pardner
In a message dated 10/6/2007 9:39:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: think you mean, Yeee-haa. That was cruel--funny, but cruel. Well, better than going as Victoria in widowhood, I guess. *** I dunno... carry a bottle of Bombay Gin and it could be cute ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costume photos
Wow! When you said they aren't cheap, I had no idea you meant they cost a fortune! They look great, but way out of my price range which would be less than a tenth of that. I'd have to teach for the next 40 years and I'm sure I won't be alive that long. Thanks for the info though. Sylrog On Oct 5, 2007, at 5:01 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 10/4/2007 10:03:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So it sounds like I'm ok, since I work for an educational institution, huh? Sylrog Sylvia, There are ready-made sets available. They aren't cheap, but they save you all the trouble. Check out _http://www.slidepresentationsdvd.com/_ (http://www.slidepresentationsdvd.com/) I'm sure such an investment depends on many times you or your institution intend this class to be taught, but it seems to me it might be well worth while. Ann Wass ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] polonaise jacket
There are several examples of jackets that have no pleats and the skirts flare out at the side and back seams to get some fullness. But I think of these as being earlier than the 1780s. Think of the quilted outfit in Janet Arnold. That jacket with a hood. It too has a compere like a stomacher that closes CF. The jacket is tacked onto it, and there is an updated drawing in the back of the book to show how it forms an A line , not the line shown in the initial illustration. ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes
Oh, absolutely. It's just interesting to trace the evolution because the crinolines that have the open fronts are so much more comfortable / wearable / danceable than the earlier hooped petticoat style. LuAnn - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes In a message dated 10/6/2007 1:40:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually, a lot of the maneuverability issues depend on whether you're using a modern substitute hoop that has circular hoops all the way around suspended in a drawstring petticoat, or if you have a more accurate cage crinoline which a) shifts the weight of the skirts to the back and b) more importantly, has a break in the hooping along the front. That gap (for lack of a better word) is the key to maneuverability in a hoop--you can sit, you can dance, you can do LOTS of things when the gap is there that become cumbersome when it isn't. ** True. But still, even though cage crinolines were numerous, there are also examples of hooped petticoats, and hoops start out being circular before moving into that trained, elongated form you see near the end of the period. So there was still a whole lotta waltzing going on in circular, hooped petticoats. Of course no one said it was easy! ** See what's new at http://www.aol.comhttp://www.aol.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.commailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumehttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes
The Victorian era begins with her reign in 1937. To my understanding crine or horse hair tape was uses in the sleeves and petticoats during the 1830s but around 1840s or fifties is when the hoops skirts start appearing. You Victorian/Civil War gowns w/hoops are 1861. So if 1830 is the choosen era, then it is petticoats with crine. -Original Message- Oh, absolutely. It's just interesting to trace the evolution because the crinolines that have the open fronts are so much more comfortable / wearable / danceable than the earlier hooped petticoat style. LuAnn - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] wedding in historical costumes In a message dated 10/6/2007 1:40:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually, a lot of the maneuverability issues depend on whether you're using a modern substitute hoop that has circular hoops all the way around suspended in a drawstring petticoat, or if you have a more accurate cage crinoline which a) shifts the weight of the skirts to the back and b) more importantly, has a break in the hooping along the front. That gap (for lack of a better word) is the key to maneuverability in a hoop--you can sit, you can dance, you can do LOTS of things when the gap is there that become cumbersome when it isn't. ** True. But still, even though cage crinolines were numerous, there are also examples of hooped petticoats, and hoops start out being circular before moving into that trained, elongated form you see near the end of the period. So there was still a whole lotta waltzing going on in circular, hooped petticoats. Of course no one said it was easy! ** See what's new at http://www.aol.comhttp://www.aol.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.commailto:h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costumehttp://mail.indra.com/mai lman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
