[h-cost] Phrygian cap pattern?
Happy New Year to all. I am being lazy, and asking for help before doing any research. My DH and I will be going to a fancy dress do (emphasis on not entirely accurate) as M. and Mme Thenardier from Les Mis. Mostly I can cobble together costumes from other stuff we have, but I would love him to wear a Phrygian cap with a rosette. Can anyone point me to a pattern, or something I can bodge from? Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movie costumes
I have the pattern for it here - its an out of date one I used to make a wedding dress from some years ago - McCalls 3861.. Thanks! That does look very close. I'll have to troll the thrift stores and see if one turns up. Denise ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movie costumes
Here's one for sale... http://www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=3403721 Happy New Year Everyone, Chris --- On Thu, 1/1/09, Land of Oz lando...@netins.net wrote: From: Land of Oz lando...@netins.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movie costumes To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 10:44 AM I have the pattern for it here - its an out of date one I used to make a wedding dress from some years ago - McCalls 3861.. Thanks! That does look very close. I'll have to troll the thrift stores and see if one turns up. Denise ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Italian sleeve question
I have learn so much from this list. I now have options to consider before starting this dress. Thanks to everyone who posted their thoughts on these marvelous sleeves. Lyonet snipped The caps the cuffs and bodice look more like a part of the fabric then embroidery. The bodice, if you enlarge the pictures appears to be pleated. http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/CARIANISeduction.JPG http://tinyurl.com/8q48hy There are other paintings that have pleated or gathered fronts. ex: http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/LadyParapet.jpg http://tinyurl.com/8gepo9 Perhaps brocade is not the correct term. What I am saying is that the fabric may have had a design woven on one of the selvage ends (similar to some sari fabrics), including the yellow band and the seamstress may have made use of it by cutting the fabric and sewing it so that the design would end up at the cuffs, bodice and caps. The band seen is to big for a simple running stitch. It appears to be a necklace and not a partlet. There may be a fob on the end hiding in the cleavage. De Original: The chemise looks like it is smocked to me. The tiny pleats and near same color embroidery would match. Is that a necklace underneath or a sheer partlet? As for the sleeves, it looks like embroidery to me. Much of what we think is brocade from period was actually embroidered, not woven. Especially if it had coat of arms on it. I see running stitches across the sleeves, caps, and wrist ruffles, but not the bodice itself. It looks to me like a contrast piece for the upper bodice and sleeve tops with a stitch to bring the sleeve tops and the caps together visually. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Phrygian cap pattern?
On Thursday 01 January 2009 7:33:31 am Suzi Clarke wrote: Happy New Year to all. I am being lazy, and asking for help before doing any research. My DH and I will be going to a fancy dress do (emphasis on not entirely accurate) as M. and Mme Thenardier from Les Mis. Mostly I can cobble together costumes from other stuff we have, but I would love him to wear a Phrygian cap with a rosette. Can anyone point me to a pattern, or something I can bodge from? Camelot Treasures (formerly called Angevin Treasures) sells a Phrygian Cap pattern: http://camelot-treasures.com/patterns/index.htm -- Cathy Raymond ca...@thyrsus.com If someone offers you a dead dog for lunch, you don't stick around for the pudding. --Ben Yahtzee Crenshaw ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Phrygian cap pattern?
Hello, I´ve found this one via google - don´t know, if it´s good. http://www.housebarra.com/EP/ep06/16cap.html Hanna At 13:33 01.01.2009, you wrote: Happy New Year to all. I am being lazy, and asking for help before doing any research. My DH and I will be going to a fancy dress do (emphasis on not entirely accurate) as M. and Mme Thenardier from Les Mis. Mostly I can cobble together costumes from other stuff we have, but I would love him to wear a Phrygian cap with a rosette. Can anyone point me to a pattern, or something I can bodge from? Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Phrygian cap pattern?
At 21:47 01/01/2009, you wrote: Hello, I´ve found this one via google - don´t know, if it´s good. http://www.housebarra.com/EP/ep06/16cap.html Hanna Hanna Thank you - I can work with that shape. Catherine - the cap pattern is way too early for the time of Les Mis - 1840's I think. A version of it was worn by Marianne the symbol of the French Revolution AFAIK and came out again later in the 19th century. Thanks for the web site though - will probably come in handy for other stuff. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] extra RE: Italian sleeve question
On Wednesday 31 December 2008 2:33:42 am otsisto wrote: [I said: how can you tell there was a shift below the camisia? You replied:] The white area has two shades of white. The upper section of white indicates that the camicia is of a sheer material and that the lower white section indicates that there is a lining, it is probably a shift and most likely sleeveless or straps. Also the closing area seems to look like there might be two layers. This shift/lining may have also been a means of support but that is a theory. I thought the thinner looking area was a trimming, but since such trimmings were usually embroidered or made of lace, it's more likely that you're right and the transparency difference indicates an underlying undergarment of some kind. I find that interesting. I know that people (such as Oonagh) have theorized that late period Italian gowns were worn with corsets, and that there had to be either a second shift underneath the corset, or, in the alternative, that the camisia lay under the corset and a false front imitating a camisia was pinned on top, to show underneath the lacing and hide the corset. However, I'd never thought that the gowns of the 1530s (such as the one under discussion seemed to be) particularly looked as though they were worn with a corset. Thanks for your explanation. -- Cathy Raymond ca...@thyrsus.com If someone offers you a dead dog for lunch, you don't stick around for the pudding. --Ben Yahtzee Crenshaw ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Phrygian cap pattern?
On Thursday 01 January 2009 5:07:36 pm Suzi Clarke wrote: Catherine - the cap pattern is way too early for the time of Les Mis - 1840's I think. A version of it was worn by Marianne the symbol of the French Revolution AFAIK and came out again later in the 19th century. You're right. Sorry I missed the Les Mis reference. La Fleur de Lyse sells 18th French patterns, among other things. Perhaps the cap they have in their pattern NFH 18001 would be useful: http://pages.videotron.com/fldelyse/Patterns.html -- Cathy Raymond ca...@thyrsus.com If someone offers you a dead dog for lunch, you don't stick around for the pudding. --Ben Yahtzee Crenshaw ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Phrygian cap pattern?
At 23:00 01/01/2009, you wrote: On Thursday 01 January 2009 5:07:36 pm Suzi Clarke wrote: Catherine - the cap pattern is way too early for the time of Les Mis - 1840's I think. A version of it was worn by Marianne the symbol of the French Revolution AFAIK and came out again later in the 19th century. You're right. Sorry I missed the Les Mis reference. La Fleur de Lyse sells 18th French patterns, among other things. Perhaps the cap they have in their pattern NFH 18001 would be useful: http://pages.videotron.com/fldelyse/Patterns.html Yes, that's more like it, but as I am doing this for my DH out of my stash, I really don't want to spend money - I am mean like that - and the diagram on the site Hanna posted will do for starters - I can play with the shape from there. I have the book Suzanne Gousse etc., wrote - I should have thought of them. Thanks for the help though - I'd forgotten they did patterns. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Phrygian cap pattern?
La Fleur de Lyse sells 18th French patterns, among other things. Perhaps the cap they have in their pattern NFH 18001 would be useful: http://pages.videotron.com/fldelyse/Patterns.html Yes, that's more like it, but as I am doing this for my DH out of my stash, I really don't want to spend money - I am mean like that - and the diagram on the site Hanna posted will do for starters - I can play with the shape from there. I have the book Suzanne Gousse etc., wrote - I should have thought of them. Thanks for the help though - I'd forgotten they did patterns. No problem. Good luck with the project. -- Cathy Raymond ca...@thyrsus.com If someone offers you a dead dog for lunch, you don't stick around for the pudding. --Ben Yahtzee Crenshaw ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] extra RE: Italian sleeve question
-Original Message- I thought the thinner looking area was a trimming, but since such trimmings were usually embroidered or made of lace, it's more likely that you're right and the transparency difference indicates an underlying undergarment of some kind. I find that interesting. I know that people (such as Oonagh) have theorized that late period Italian gowns were worn with corsets, and that there had to be either a second shift underneath the corset, or, in the alternative, that the camisia lay under the corset and a false front imitating a camisia was pinned on top, to show underneath the lacing and hide the corset. However, I'd never thought that the gowns of the 1530s (such as the one under discussion seemed to be) particularly looked as though they were worn with a corset. Thanks for your explanation. -- Cathy Raymond ca...@thyrsus.com In my opinion, I don't think that she has a PoB or corset. I think that the gown is the main support but I think that maybe some shifts in this period may have been laced in the back or sides to make it a bit snug to add some support, especially if the woman was endowed with vast tracks of land. :) The shift under the camicia makes a bit of sense with for modesty. Though one has to wonder about modesty when they see this painting. http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/CarianiAlbani.jpg Is it a bordello (sp?) De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] extra RE: Italian sleeve question
On Thursday 01 January 2009 8:42:31 pm otsisto wrote: In my opinion, I don't think that she has a PoB or corset. I think that the gown is the main support but I think that maybe some shifts in this period may have been laced in the back or sides to make it a bit snug to add some support, especially if the woman was endowed with vast tracks of land. :) The shift under the camicia makes a bit of sense with for modesty. Though one has to wonder about modesty when they see this painting. http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/CarianiAlbani.jpg Is it a bordello (sp?) Don't know. However, there's other equally immodest portraits from the period of the Cariani painting: http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/LadyInGreen.JPG http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/PV1515-16.jpg Here's one labeled as involving courtesans; note the woman at the extreme right corner with her nipples distending her transparent shift: http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/CarianiAlbani.jpg -- Cathy Raymond ca...@thyrsus.com If someone offers you a dead dog for lunch, you don't stick around for the pudding. --Ben Yahtzee Crenshaw ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Phrygian cap pattern?
Happy New Year to all. I am being lazy, and asking for help before doing any research. My DH and I will be going to a fancy dress do (emphasis on not entirely accurate) as M. and Mme Thenardier from Les Mis. Mostly I can cobble together costumes from other stuff we have, but I would love him to wear a Phrygian cap with a rosette. Can anyone point me to a pattern, or something I can bodge from? Suzi I don't have anything to help you, but I want to see pictures! Oh, and Happy New Year to you, too. Carmen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
