Re: [h-cost] Movie costumes
I have the pattern for it here - its an out of date one I used to make a wedding dress from some years ago - McCalls 3861.. Thanks! That does look very close. I'll have to troll the thrift stores and see if one turns up. Denise ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movie costumes
Here's one for sale... http://www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=3403721 Happy New Year Everyone, Chris --- On Thu, 1/1/09, Land of Oz lando...@netins.net wrote: From: Land of Oz lando...@netins.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movie costumes To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 10:44 AM I have the pattern for it here - its an out of date one I used to make a wedding dress from some years ago - McCalls 3861.. Thanks! That does look very close. I'll have to troll the thrift stores and see if one turns up. Denise ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Movie costumes
I'm sure those of you who make costumes for customers are getting requests for the blue farewell dress worn by Susan in the Prince Caspian movie. I've been trying to find even ONE photo of this dress on-line and not having any luck. I did find a kinda messy mock up for an American Girl doll, and a perfect replica for a My Little Pony (eye rolls) but no photos of the dress on Susan or on a mannequin. Any tips on a photo, detailed illustration or inside knowledge of a pending pattern publication would be appreciated. My daughter is playing with the idea of making it for a prom dress. Denise Iowa ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movie costumes
Is it out on video yet? I could capture images - I can rent it from netflix. BTW - where are you in Iowa - I was born and raised (for awhile) in Iowa City. Sg From: lando...@netins.net To: h-cost...@indra.com Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 07:27:54 -0600 Subject: [h-cost] Movie costumes Any tips on a photo, detailed illustration or inside knowledge of a pending pattern publication would be appreciated. My daughter is playing with the idea of making it for a prom dress. Denise Iowa ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movie costumes
It came out on DVD at the beginning of December. Lovely dress, too. MaggiRos --- Maggie Secara ~A Compendium of Common Knowledge 1558-1603 ISBN 978-0-9818401-0-9 Available at http://elizabethan.org/compendium/paperback.html See our gallery at http://www.zazzle.com/maggiros On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Saragrace Knauf wickedf...@msn.comwrote: Is it out on video yet? I could capture images - I can rent it from netflix. BTW - where are you in Iowa - I was born and raised (for awhile) in Iowa City. Sg From: lando...@netins.net To: h-cost...@indra.com Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 07:27:54 -0600 Subject: [h-cost] Movie costumes Any tips on a photo, detailed illustration or inside knowledge of a pending pattern publication would be appreciated. My daughter is playing with the idea of making it for a prom dress. Denise Iowa ___ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movie costumes
Is it out on video yet? I could capture images - I can rent it from netflix. BTW - where are you in Iowa - I was born and raised (for awhile) in Iowa City. Sg Yes, we got it for Christmas. My computer doesn't play dvds so that option is out for me. It's a pretty good movie and does have nice costumes on other characters, too! :-) I live in central Iowa, near Ames, but grew up in eastern Iowa close to the Quad Cities. Denise B Iowa ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movie costumes
I have the pattern for it here - its an out of date one I used to make a wedding dress from some years ago - McCalls 3861.. Bye for now, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy music ~ dancing ~ sewing ~ patterns ~ books 1480s - 1890s : Renaissance to Victorian Jane Austen Festival 16-19 April 2009 http://www.earthlydelights.com.au http://www.reproductions.blogspot.com http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=19098290 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movie costumes
Land of Oz wrote: the blue farewell dress worn by Susan Any tips on a photo... couple of rough screen shots--none of the back, but it is shaped as same as the front... - Hope P.S. I don't remember if this list takes attachments. I can post them somewhere if not. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movie costumes
Have not seen the movie so hope these help http://costumes.narniaweb.com/ http://tinyurl.com/7acy4u http://tinyurl.com/9l424o My favorite site for Movie Costumes http://www.costumersguide.com/costume_research.shtml De -Original Message- I'm sure those of you who make costumes for customers are getting requests for the blue farewell dress worn by Susan in the Prince Caspian movie. I've been trying to find even ONE photo of this dress on-line and not having any luck. I did find a kinda messy mock up for an American Girl doll, and a perfect replica for a My Little Pony (eye rolls) but no photos of the dress on Susan or on a mannequin. Any tips on a photo, detailed illustration or inside knowledge of a pending pattern publication would be appreciated. My daughter is playing with the idea of making it for a prom dress. Denise Iowa ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
Speaking of ancient costume history, are any of you expert in the field of Mesopotamian costume? I'm wondering what else might have been dug up in that area since I studied costume history. Anyone know any good books on the subject? Sylrog Not so much costume as cooking... but the Assyrian cunieform tablets at Cambridge were translated (err, that's Cambridge in Massachussetts). The tablets were recipes. Here's the pop archaeology book on the project. http://www.superchefblog.com/2005/07/oldest-cuisine-in-world-jean-bottero.html There's also a much more scholarly one (in French by the same author) that I used for a Stanford paper years ago. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
Yep, incredibly cool. I made a large soft sculture doll that wears infant size clothing. When you start the doll you don't know the sex until it just takes on its own as it is finished. Can't say going to make a girl or boy because what you get is what you get just like real life. Enjoyed your site. Lady Von Yeah, it's incredibly cool. (The same sort of technique seems to have been used for beaded-net sarcophagus covers that would include a facial portrait of the deceased.) I had fun making one for my ancient Egyptian doll -- see digthatdoll/egyptianwoman.html. It's about 2/3 of the way down the page. (The doll is about 10 tall.) Heather Lady Von http://www.wildthangstreasures.com __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
On Thursday 04 January 2007 1:11 am, Penny Ladnier wrote: Okay, I caught up on the topic... I'm sorry for my stupid question. I am wondering if these Egyptian dresses that were found in the 1920s were what made beaded dresses in the 1920s so fashionable. From my research, they appear in fashion around the same time as the dates of the beaded Egyptian dress finds. They do, but the beaded dresses Rosalind Hall (?) Janessen talks about are significantly different than the finely beaded creations of the 1920s. They are a coarse mesh, made of either linen thread or large beads. Some of the western beaded dresses may incorporate motifs from Egyptian pictorial art, but I don't think the actual ancient beaded dresses were that big a factor. -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity. --Robert Frost ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] movie costumes
I know it's naalbinding/nalbinding but did not know what the Coptics called it so I did not want to call it naalbinding. I guess I could have said a form of needle knitting that the Scandinavians refer to as naalbinding :) De -Original Message- The Coptic's had a form of needle knitting and to my understanding a form of macramé' was known in Egypt. It's called naalbinding, and is almost identical to knitting except that it's done with a threaded needle. The thread follows almost the same path as it does in knitting, except that the worker has to thread a new needle every once in a while. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] movie costumes
At 12:04 PM 1/2/2007, you wrote: The Coptic's had a form of needle knitting and to my understanding a form of macramé' was known in Egypt. They also knew how to dye their fabrics. This is a start. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/fabrics.htm http://africanhistory.about.com/od/hieroglyphs/a/ColorTech.htm What makes you think that they were so primitive as to not know how to dye fabrics? De Until the addition of wool (and possibly cotton) to the fabrics used in Egypt, linen was the fabric, and linen does not dye very easily. Where colored clothing is shown in the tomb paintings, it is obvious that they individuals portrayed are foreigners who we know from other evidence used wool (which dyes beautifully and easily). To add color to outfits, the Egyptians used netted overdresses with various sorts of beads. So a white linen dress with an netted beaded overdress would be likely. A colored linen dress is not seen in any of the tomb paintings or in the tombs where linens (including clothing) were found. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
See, for me, it wouldn't have been convincing at all, given the (to me) obvious visual clues. We'll all pick up on different things, depending on our levels of interest/expertise, etc. I'm betting that most people in the intended audience of the movies discussed earlier in the thread would have the same reaction to peasants in burlap as you do to an Egyptian queen wearing clothing centuries, if not actual millenia, out of date. --Sue - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes In a message dated 1/2/2007 7:52:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Well it may have been crocheted...or just knotted in some waybut you get the idea. I'm remembering, or trying to, something from long ago. * Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? ** Good question. But in this case, I don't care. This was TV... a movie, not a museum piece. And she still looked great and totally convincing. It's Potiphar's wife y'know. She doesn't even have a name as far as I know. And he was sexy and seductive, as per her theatrical purpose. It was beautiful! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
In a message dated 1/2/2007 3:09:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What makes you think that they were so primitive as to not know how to dye fabrics? *** I don't think that is what the poster meant. I think it was a reference to all the white linen we've found in tombs. White certainly was prevalent. Considering the climate, I can see why. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
On Jan 2, 2007, at 5:00 AM, Sue Clemenger wrote: - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes In the one about Joseph, Potiphar and his wife look fantastic! If I remembershe was in a sheer coral red crinkled gauze shift to her feet that had a turquoise knitted over dress, very open in its working, that made the whole thing appear like a coral and turquoise geometric patterned tube that clung tightly to the body. The naked body showed thru the bright gauze and the open work knitted shift had bits of gold bobbles worked into it...and it ended in tied tassels at her ankles. She wore that familiar wig, like a big hair helmet with hammered gold leaves that dangled and shimmered all over it. The dark cole eyes and red lipsshe looked like she stepped off a Pyramid wall! Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? --Sue From the description, it sounds like it might have been inspired by a surviving Egyptian bead net dress -- a very open network made of threaded beads. The one I'm thinking of is basically a tubular sheath with shoulder straps and at the bottom hem it has a fringe of dangling flower-shaped beads. _Might_ -- I'd have to see the original to know if the suspicion holds up. There's a rather dark photograph of the item I'm thinking of about halfway down the page at: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/sexuality.html Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
Did I *ever* say, or intimate that Egyptians were primitive? Huh? Wherever did you get *that* idea? I asked if there was any evidence of *linens* being dyed *at that time.* Linens are notoriously difficult to dye using natural dyes. Good grief. --Sue - Original Message - From: otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 1:04 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] movie costumes The Coptic's had a form of needle knitting and to my understanding a form of macramé' was known in Egypt. They also knew how to dye their fabrics. This is a start. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/fabrics.htm http://africanhistory.about.com/od/hieroglyphs/a/ColorTech.htm What makes you think that they were so primitive as to not know how to dye fabrics? De -Original Message- Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? --Sue ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Egypt Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
Nalbinding, the sort that looks like crossed-loop knitting, can be told from knitting by the way it increases and decreases. Dorothy Burnham wrote an excellent article where she analyzed 'ancient Egyptian knitting' and traced the thread path to prove all extant pieces she analyzed to be nalbinding. It was used for small pieces where shaping is very useful, such as socks, and other small pieces, which might be purses or other little items. The netted dresses from Egypt were, to my limited knowledge, made of strung beads, often faiance (man, can't spell that word, sort of glass that didn't get melted quite all the way) or what we'd now term semi-precious stone, and some gold mixed in. The Egyptians, by all accounts, really prized their beautiful white linen, which bleaches so beautifully. They wished, by and large, their costumes' color to come from the jewelry. Ann in CT --- Carolyn Kayta Barrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's called naalbinding, and is almost identical to knitting except that it's done with a threaded needle. The thread follows almost the same path as it does in knitting, except that the worker has to thread a new needle every once in a while. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
You mean nalbinding? I don't believe there's any evidence of it being used for larger items of clothing, such as dresses. I know of socks, and a hat. No dresses. --Sue - Original Message - From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. The Coptic people did a thing that looked a lot like knitting. Is this movie example something so far off? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
When did this evidence about Egyptian beaded net dresses surface? I never heard of it before nor is it in my old costume history books. It's been decades since I studied the history of costume, but since I'm going to be teaching it this January I'd really like to keep up on recent developments. Sylrog On Jan 2, 2007, at 9:34 PM, Heather Rose Jones wrote: From the description, it sounds like it might have been inspired by a surviving Egyptian bead net dress -- a very open network made of threaded beads. The one I'm thinking of is basically a tubular sheath with shoulder straps and at the bottom hem it has a fringe of dangling flower-shaped beads. _Might_ -- I'd have to see the original to know if the suspicion holds up. There's a rather dark photograph of the item I'm thinking of about halfway down the page at: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/sexuality.html Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
A beaded/netted overgown? How cool is that? ;o) I hadn't heard of that intriguing garment, so thanks to you and the other poster who mentioned it. I can see now why the designers of AlbertCat's movie might have tried to imitate it. --Sue - Original Message - From: Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes On Jan 2, 2007, at 5:00 AM, Sue Clemenger wrote: Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? --Sue From the description, it sounds like it might have been inspired by a surviving Egyptian bead net dress -- a very open network made of threaded beads. The one I'm thinking of is basically a tubular sheath with shoulder straps and at the bottom hem it has a fringe of dangling flower-shaped beads. _Might_ -- I'd have to see the original to know if the suspicion holds up. There's a rather dark photograph of the item I'm thinking of about halfway down the page at: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/sexuality.html Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
There is one at the MFA in Boston, it was conserved several years ago, when I worked there or just before. I might have a picture somewhere in an old bulletin. It was beautiful beads in blues mostly as I recall. Katy On 1/3/07, Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When did this evidence about Egyptian beaded net dresses surface? I never heard of it before nor is it in my old costume history books. It's been decades since I studied the history of costume, but since I'm going to be teaching it this January I'd really like to keep up on recent developments. Sylrog On Jan 2, 2007, at 9:34 PM, Heather Rose Jones wrote: From the description, it sounds like it might have been inspired by a surviving Egyptian bead net dress -- a very open network made of threaded beads. The one I'm thinking of is basically a tubular sheath with shoulder straps and at the bottom hem it has a fringe of dangling flower-shaped beads. _Might_ -- I'd have to see the original to know if the suspicion holds up. There's a rather dark photograph of the item I'm thinking of about halfway down the page at: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/sexuality.html Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian [EMAIL PROTECTED]www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
In a message dated 1/3/2007 10:16:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A beaded/netted overgown? How cool is that? ;o) *** I thought so. I mean it's better than Liz Taylor or Claudette Colbert [though their costumes for their Cleopatras have their own amazing qualities] Watch Someone will dig up this Joseph thing and the gown will actually be white with a coral and turquoise overdress! Like I said, I'm trying to remember something I saw once quite a while ago. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] movie costumes
Mine was a simple question. How I read your question, it seemed to imply that you did not think that they were capable of dyeing fabric during that era, thus it seemed to me to imply primitive. Perhaps I should have used the word ignorant or something better to ask why you thought the Egyptians lacked dyeing skills during that era. Sue: ..is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? De -Original Message- Did I *ever* say, or intimate that Egyptians were primitive? Huh? Wherever did you get *that* idea? I asked if there was any evidence of *linens* being dyed *at that time.* Linens are notoriously difficult to dye using natural dyes. Good grief. --Sue ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
Nice! short version of url http://tinyurl.com/ydjm4p De -Original Message- This might help... http://www.petrie.ucl.ac.uk/detail/details/index_no_login.php?objectid=UC177 43accesscheck=%2Fdetail%2Fdetails%2Findex.php ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
On Jan 3, 2007, at 7:24 AM, Sue Clemenger wrote: A beaded/netted overgown? How cool is that? ;o) I hadn't heard of that intriguing garment, so thanks to you and the other poster who mentioned it. I can see now why the designers of AlbertCat's movie might have tried to imitate it. --Sue Yeah, it's incredibly cool. (The same sort of technique seems to have been used for beaded-net sarcophagus covers that would include a facial portrait of the deceased.) I had fun making one for my ancient Egyptian doll -- see http://www.heatherrosejones.com/ digthatdoll/egyptianwoman.html. It's about 2/3 of the way down the page. (The doll is about 10 tall.) Heather - Original Message - From: Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes On Jan 2, 2007, at 5:00 AM, Sue Clemenger wrote: Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? --Sue From the description, it sounds like it might have been inspired by a surviving Egyptian bead net dress -- a very open network made of threaded beads. The one I'm thinking of is basically a tubular sheath with shoulder straps and at the bottom hem it has a fringe of dangling flower-shaped beads. _Might_ -- I'd have to see the original to know if the suspicion holds up. There's a rather dark photograph of the item I'm thinking of about halfway down the page at: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/sexuality.html Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
On Jan 3, 2007, at 7:16 AM, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: When did this evidence about Egyptian beaded net dresses surface? I never heard of it before nor is it in my old costume history books. It's been decades since I studied the history of costume, but since I'm going to be teaching it this January I'd really like to keep up on recent developments. I've run across mentions of about 3 of the dresses, not all of which were preserved very carefully after discovery. The main researcher who seems to have written about them is Rosalind Hall. I believe there's some discussion in: Hall, Rosalind. 1981. Fishing-net dreses in the Petrie Museum in Gottinger Miszellen: 42:36-46. and there's a color picture in the Shire Archaeology series book on ancient Egyptian textiles, which she also wrote. Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
On Wednesday 03 January 2007 10:16 am, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: When did this evidence about Egyptian beaded net dresses surface? I never heard of it before nor is it in my old costume history books. It's been decades since I studied the history of costume, but since I'm going to be teaching it this January I'd really like to keep up on recent developments. I believe I saw a picture of such a beaded net dress in Archaeology magazine about two or three years ago. I think I still have the issue. If so, it may indicate when the find was actually made. Ooops! I was wrong--it wasn't Archaeology at all, and it was longer ago than a few years. The article I have in mind was in KMT: A Modern Journal of Ancient Egypt. Winter 1995-1996, vol. 6, No. 4. It's by a Rosalind Janssen, an assistant curator at the Petrie Museum of Egyptian Archaeology at University College London (Petrie Museum) and it's called, An Ancient Egyptian Erotic Fashion: Fishnet Dresses. Turns out that more than one have been found, and there are pictures of two restored (i.e., restrung) dresses accompanying the article. One is dated to the 4th Dynasty. The caption on the photo claims it was found during George Reisner's excavations at Giza in 1927 and is now at the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston (MFS 27.1548). Another was found by Brunton at Qau in 1923-24; the article has two pictures of this one; one as it was incorrectly restored in the 1960s and a more recent restoration; it is now in the Petrie Museum. A picture of what the caption calls macrame (but looks more like a net with beaded motifs at the bottom) and a mesh referred to as a netted linen fragment also appear, along with a painted statute and tomb painting that appear to show similar garments. In light of the age of the relevant finds and the tomb art, I'm surprised no reference to such a garment showed up in the older books. Anyway, I can send you scans of the photos (possibly even of the whole article) by private e-mail if you are interested. The article also discusses evidence for garments made of linen netting that would have been as erotic and more comfortable to wear. [Heather said:] On Jan 2, 2007, at 9:34 PM, Heather Rose Jones wrote: From the description, it sounds like it might have been inspired by a surviving Egyptian bead net dress -- a very open network made of threaded beads. The one I'm thinking of is basically a tubular sheath with shoulder straps and at the bottom hem it has a fringe of dangling flower-shaped beads. This description tallies pretty well with the macrame fragment pictured in the KMT article, though Janessen says the MFA dress has stylized bead flowers along the hem, too. (I'm not sure I think so, from the picture, though.) The macrame fragment is also in the MFA, so I'm not clear which item she means. _Might_ -- I'd have to see the original to know if the suspicion holds up. There's a rather dark photograph of the item I'm thinking of about halfway down the page at: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/sexuality.html The dark photo referred to on the URL cited above appears to be a bad shot of the rear of the garment from the Petrie Museum. The KMT article has full-length shot of that garment, in color and from the front. -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity. --Robert Frost ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
On Wednesday 03 January 2007 9:34 pm, Heather Rose Jones wrote: On Jan 3, 2007, at 7:24 AM, Sue Clemenger wrote: A beaded/netted overgown? How cool is that? ;o) I hadn't heard of that intriguing garment, so thanks to you and the other poster who mentioned it. I can see now why the designers of AlbertCat's movie might have tried to imitate it. --Sue Yeah, it's incredibly cool. (The same sort of technique seems to have been used for beaded-net sarcophagus covers that would include a facial portrait of the deceased.) I had fun making one for my ancient Egyptian doll -- see http://www.heatherrosejones.com/ digthatdoll/egyptianwoman.html. It's about 2/3 of the way down the page. (The doll is about 10 tall.) I have very occasionally seen similar-looking garments (using plastic beads, naturally!) sold by vendors of belly dance costumes. These modern examples seem to be made using crochet techniques. Egyptian beaded dress or beaded crochet dress plugged into Google will sometimes turn up examples. I'd love to have one. -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity. --Robert Frost ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
On Wednesday 03 January 2007 10:19 pm, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: Funny you should mention that book. I just so happen to have made a photocopy on it in its entirety when I ran across it for the first time a few years ago in a small town library. Since it was written in 1920, I've wondered ever since how accurate it is. Incredibly detailed, so I've been wondering. any consensus among you all? Shrug. It's hard to say. To my knowledge, there aren't really any archaeological textile finds (as opposed to jewelry and clay tablets) in what was then Mesopotamia If I'm wrong, I'd be delighted to hear about it! -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity. --Robert Frost ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
You may want to check the Cambridge online resources. I seem to remember that they had a few publications covering Mesopotamian textile impressions and some possible textile items. When I was in college oh low those many years ago one of the classes that was required for my degree was one specifically about Mesopotamia. (I did not finish my degree.) Since that was in the early 80's they sure as hell must have found something by now since they have had so many new things come up in the last 2 decades. You must also remember that at one point or another Iran, Anatolia, Syria and Palestine were also a part of Mesopotamia. Textiles, if they survived, I would bet are at Cambridge. :) Chiara - Original Message - From: Catherine Olanich Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian On Wednesday 03 January 2007 10:19 pm, Sylvia Rognstad wrote: Funny you should mention that book. I just so happen to have made a photocopy on it in its entirety when I ran across it for the first time a few years ago in a small town library. Since it was written in 1920, I've wondered ever since how accurate it is. Incredibly detailed, so I've been wondering. any consensus among you all? Shrug. It's hard to say. To my knowledge, there aren't really any archaeological textile finds (as opposed to jewelry and clay tablets) in what was then Mesopotamia If I'm wrong, I'd be delighted to hear about it! -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity. --Robert Frost ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
Katy, I am coming in late on the topic. Is this a 1920s Egyptian style beaded gown? Those were fashionable then. I haven't seen an ancient Egyptian beaded dress. I couldn't get this webpage link to work: http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/sexuality.html Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes--Egyptian
Okay, I caught up on the topic... I'm sorry for my stupid question. I am wondering if these Egyptian dresses that were found in the 1920s were what made beaded dresses in the 1920s so fashionable. From my research, they appear in fashion around the same time as the dates of the beaded Egyptian dress finds. I am studying and will start soon documenting actual beading patterns from the 1920s dresses. It is amazing to me how some of the dresses from the 1920s survived with the chiffon in tact. We have some in the fashion collection that barely survived and the only thing they are good for is to document their patterns. You can not even tell what these dresses originally looked like. We have one dress that has about 15 lbs. of metal beadwork. It has survived well. Penny Ladnier, Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com www.costumelibrary.com www.costumeclassroom.com www.costumeencyclopedia.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? --Sue - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 10:07 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] movie costumes In the one about Joseph, Potiphar and his wife look fantastic! If I remembershe was in a sheer coral red crinkled gauze shift to her feet that had a turquoise knitted over dress, very open in its working, that made the whole thing appear like a coral and turquoise geometric patterned tube that clung tightly to the body. The naked body showed thru the bright gauze and the open work knitted shift had bits of gold bobbles worked into it...and it ended in tied tassels at her ankles. She wore that familiar wig, like a big hair helmet with hammered gold leaves that dangled and shimmered all over it. The dark cole eyes and red lipsshe looked like she stepped off a Pyramid wall! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
In a message dated 1/2/2007 7:52:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Well it may have been crocheted...or just knotted in some waybut you get the idea. I'm remembering, or trying to, something from long ago. * Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? ** Good question. But in this case, I don't care. This was TV... a movie, not a museum piece. And she still looked great and totally convincing. It's Potiphar's wife y'know. She doesn't even have a name as far as I know. And he was sexy and seductive, as per her theatrical purpose. It was beautiful! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
Isn't Potiphar's wife traditionally believed to have been named Zuleika? Lauren M. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jan 2, 2007, at 12:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/2/2007 7:52:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Well it may have been crocheted...or just knotted in some waybut you get the idea. I'm remembering, or trying to, something from long ago. * Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? ** Good question. But in this case, I don't care. This was TV... a movie, not a museum piece. And she still looked great and totally convincing. It's Potiphar's wife y'know. She doesn't even have a name as far as I know. And he was sexy and seductive, as per her theatrical purpose. It was beautiful! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. The Coptic people did a thing that looked a lot like knitting. Is this movie example something so far off? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] movie costumes
The Coptic's had a form of needle knitting and to my understanding a form of macramé' was known in Egypt. They also knew how to dye their fabrics. This is a start. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/fabrics.htm http://africanhistory.about.com/od/hieroglyphs/a/ColorTech.htm What makes you think that they were so primitive as to not know how to dye fabrics? De -Original Message- Not if what she was wearing was obviously knitted. That's a humongous boo-boo, right there. Also, the color of the gown sounds really wrong--is there any evidence of linens being dyed in Egypt at that time? --Sue ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
The Coptic's had a form of needle knitting and to my understanding a form of macramé' was known in Egypt. It's called naalbinding, and is almost identical to knitting except that it's done with a threaded needle. The thread follows almost the same path as it does in knitting, except that the worker has to thread a new needle every once in a while. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] movie costumes
I haven't seen either of these movies discussed, so here goes. Today we took our kids to see Night at the Museum. Lots of fun costumes -- at night all the characters in the museum come to life, so there are costumes from all eras and cultures. Because they are museum mannequins come to life, they are all supposed to be costumes (not real period clothes) so I had relief from my typical costumed-movie horror. There were LOTS more people in this movie than I thought there would be from the commercials, a whole Roman army, for example. It was a lot of fun, lightweight but very enjoyable. My favorite costumes were two people dressed as terra cotta Chinese soldiers. I thought they did a great job with those. There were also some ACW cloth dummies running around that were a lot of fun. Second movie -- I caught most of One Night with the King last night on television. It was a big-budget, released in theaters version of the story of Queen Esther that was out this fall. Talk about a cheesy movie! Really bad script, acting, etc. But the costumes! They range from what looks half decent (to me, not knowing what Biblical Persian clothes would have looked like, but at least plausible) to just awful. I heard that it was based on a sort of Evangelical Christian romance novel, and the guy who plays King Ahaseurus/Xerxes was supposed to be a sort of tortured romantic lead. But he looked preposterous, his clothes were awful, and he was so annoying I can't imagine anyone falling in love with him. The young actor who played the Egyptian king in Night at the Museum looked a lot more authentic AND a lot more romantic. Anyway, Esther's clothes were all over the place, and a lot of them looked like artsy prom dresses. She did look Jewish though, or at least a lot more Jewish than Xerxes looked Persian. In sum, the costumes in Night at the Museum were more authentic and more attractive than the ones in One Night with the King. The movie was much better, too. I was supposed to take my daughter to see that one with some other girls and their moms, but we never found a time and I'm very glad. If I'd had to pay for it I would have wanted my money back. My daughter did go see The Nativity Story with people from church, so I was spared that. From the stills, it looked like more costume horror, though of the usual earnest thick weave, lots of knotted rags, and seams on the outside of the garment sort. Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] movie costumes
In a message dated 1/1/2007 5:43:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From the stills, it looked like more costume horror, though of the usual earnest thick weave, lots of knotted rags, and seams on the outside of the garment sort. The best biblical costumes I've ever seen were in those Old Testament things Turner television did. They were all filmed in Italy I think and had Italian designers. I could never get all the way thru a whole one however...the scripts were so bad. Richard Harris played Abraham in oneI love to hate Richard Harris. It was hysterical...Ishmael and Isaac as kids come running in the tent for a hug. then run out laughing and Abraham says God I love those boys. I laughed. Sarah has lines like Your land has been fertilized by the dung of our goats. Pu-leeze! ANYWAY. the costumes were amazing. In the one about Joseph, Potiphar and his wife look fantastic! If I remembershe was in a sheer coral red crinkled gauze shift to her feet that had a turquoise knitted over dress, very open in its working, that made the whole thing appear like a coral and turquoise geometric patterned tube that clung tightly to the body. The naked body showed thru the bright gauze and the open work knitted shift had bits of gold bobbles worked into it...and it ended in tied tassels at her ankles. She wore that familiar wig, like a big hair helmet with hammered gold leaves that dangled and shimmered all over it. The dark cole eyes and red lipsshe looked like she stepped off a Pyramid wall! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
