Re: [h-cost] stitching on ruffs [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Thanks, Annette, for sending this image! No matter how it was done, it was a huge amount of work. It's hard for me to imagine that this could be successfully set if all those points were stitched together at the start. (Does heat damage pearls? I suppose they could be fake ones made of glass.) So I would guess that these are either pearl-headed pins, or that the lady was willing to pay to have it stitched each time after it was set. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] stitching on ruffs [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] Need author of book PLease....
HI Suzi, May I butt in ? I havae been going crazy seeking info on the Austro-Hungarian Empire dress for people of middle and noble class, for the early and later Elizabethan era. If you do find that reference book ,could you PLEASE post the title author for me? I'd really like to portray a part of my heritage at our Faires by dressing as a noble Hungarian lady. I just do a generic lower noble English lady and I'd like a change. Melody --- On Tue, 4/14/09, Suzi Clarke s...@suziclarke.co.uk wrote: From: Suzi Clarke s...@suziclarke.co.uk Subject: Re: [h-cost] stitching on ruffs [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Date: Tuesday, April 14, 2009, 12:24 AM At 00:29 14/04/2009, you wrote: Until recently I had thought that the figure-of-eight ruffs were never stitched to hold the shape, but last week I found a portrait in a current Sotherby's catalogue for a sale of Old Master and early British paintings. This is the link to the catalogue: http://www.sothebys.com/app/paddleReg/paddlereg.do?dispatch=eventDetails event_id=29138 and the particular painting is: http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159527660 The ruff is formed with a lattice effect, intersecting 4 times, and there is a pearl at every intersection, with a group of 3 pearls at the top and bottom edge. I think the pearls are stitched on, rather than representing pin-heads, especially given the groups of pearls at top and bottom. It would be a nightmare to reset after washing. I have never seen anything similar - has anyone else? Suzi, is this similar to the one you referred to. Needless to say I have downloaded it for future reference. Annette Wilson At the moment that particular book is AWOL in the mess that is my workroom, but the idea was similar as far as I can remember. The book is about costume in, I think, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, which was heavily influenced by Spanish fashions. I'll have another look later - I'm away today. Suzi - Message: 2 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:39:41 +0200 From: Hanna Zickermann h.zickerm...@gmx.de Subject: [h-cost] Stitching on ruffs To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Message-ID: 200904091839.n39iduov018...@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hello, has anyone ever seen a ruff that really had the stitching along the outer edge to keep the 8s in shape? Period Costume for Stage and Screen even suggests embellishing the ruff with beads on top of these stitches, but I feel they are just a theatrical neccessity as the ruffs are not properly starched and must keep their shapes in nylon material. Or is there evidence that these stitches would have been used as a decorative feature as well and that they are documentable? Thank you, Hanna -- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 19:55:26 +0100 From: Suzi Clarke s...@suziclarke.co.uk Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stitching on ruffs To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Message-ID: 7.0.1.0.2.20090409195249.03cb2...@suziclarke.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed At 19:39 09/04/2009, you wrote: Hello, has anyone ever seen a ruff that really had the stitching along the outer edge to keep the 8s in shape? Period Costume for Stage and Screen even suggests embellishing the ruff with beads on top of these stitches, but I feel they are just a theatrical neccessity as the ruffs are not properly starched and must keep their shapes in nylon material. Or is there evidence that these stitches would have been used as a decorative feature as well and that they are documentable? I have seen pictures of ruffs where the 8s are apparently held together, probably with wax (see Janet Arnold). I am sure I also have a photo of a ruff held with red beads - I'll have to go and look for that though - my library is not next to the computer! Suzi -- If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail or any attachments have been sent to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect of information in the e-mail or attachments. Please consider the environment before printing this email. -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] stitching on ruffs [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
That, or the painter painted her sitting in the one time it looked good. So I would guess that these are either pearl-headed pins, or that the lady was willing to pay to have it stitched each time after it was set. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] stitching on ruffs [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
At 00:29 14/04/2009, you wrote: Until recently I had thought that the figure-of-eight ruffs were never stitched to hold the shape, but last week I found a portrait in a current Sotherby's catalogue for a sale of Old Master and early British paintings. This is the link to the catalogue: http://www.sothebys.com/app/paddleReg/paddlereg.do?dispatch=eventDetails event_id=29138 and the particular painting is: http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159527660 The ruff is formed with a lattice effect, intersecting 4 times, and there is a pearl at every intersection, with a group of 3 pearls at the top and bottom edge. I think the pearls are stitched on, rather than representing pin-heads, especially given the groups of pearls at top and bottom. It would be a nightmare to reset after washing. I have never seen anything similar - has anyone else? Suzi, is this similar to the one you referred to. Needless to say I have downloaded it for future reference. Annette Wilson At the moment that particular book is AWOL in the mess that is my workroom, but the idea was similar as far as I can remember. The book is about costume in, I think, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, which was heavily influenced by Spanish fashions. I'll have another look later - I'm away today. Suzi - Message: 2 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:39:41 +0200 From: Hanna Zickermann h.zickerm...@gmx.de Subject: [h-cost] Stitching on ruffs To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Message-ID: 200904091839.n39iduov018...@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hello, has anyone ever seen a ruff that really had the stitching along the outer edge to keep the 8s in shape? Period Costume for Stage and Screen even suggests embellishing the ruff with beads on top of these stitches, but I feel they are just a theatrical neccessity as the ruffs are not properly starched and must keep their shapes in nylon material. Or is there evidence that these stitches would have been used as a decorative feature as well and that they are documentable? Thank you, Hanna -- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 19:55:26 +0100 From: Suzi Clarke s...@suziclarke.co.uk Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stitching on ruffs To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Message-ID: 7.0.1.0.2.20090409195249.03cb2...@suziclarke.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed At 19:39 09/04/2009, you wrote: Hello, has anyone ever seen a ruff that really had the stitching along the outer edge to keep the 8s in shape? Period Costume for Stage and Screen even suggests embellishing the ruff with beads on top of these stitches, but I feel they are just a theatrical neccessity as the ruffs are not properly starched and must keep their shapes in nylon material. Or is there evidence that these stitches would have been used as a decorative feature as well and that they are documentable? I have seen pictures of ruffs where the 8s are apparently held together, probably with wax (see Janet Arnold). I am sure I also have a photo of a ruff held with red beads - I'll have to go and look for that though - my library is not next to the computer! Suzi -- If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail or any attachments have been sent to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect of information in the e-mail or attachments. Please consider the environment before printing this email. -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] stitching on ruffs [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
I would not rule out pins altogether...some with 3 pearl heads...because it's difficult to set. That's the whole point of a formal tortured ruff, isn't it? **The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221421325x1201417411/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26h mpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilAvgfooterNO62) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] stitching on ruffs [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Until recently I had thought that the figure-of-eight ruffs were never stitched to hold the shape, but last week I found a portrait in a current Sotherby's catalogue for a sale of Old Master and early British paintings. This is the link to the catalogue: http://www.sothebys.com/app/paddleReg/paddlereg.do?dispatch=eventDetails event_id=29138 and the particular painting is: http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159527660 The ruff is formed with a lattice effect, intersecting 4 times, and there is a pearl at every intersection, with a group of 3 pearls at the top and bottom edge. I think the pearls are stitched on, rather than representing pin-heads, especially given the groups of pearls at top and bottom. It would be a nightmare to reset after washing. I have never seen anything similar - has anyone else? Suzi, is this similar to the one you referred to. Needless to say I have downloaded it for future reference. Annette Wilson - Message: 2 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:39:41 +0200 From: Hanna Zickermann h.zickerm...@gmx.de Subject: [h-cost] Stitching on ruffs To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Message-ID: 200904091839.n39iduov018...@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hello, has anyone ever seen a ruff that really had the stitching along the outer edge to keep the 8s in shape? Period Costume for Stage and Screen even suggests embellishing the ruff with beads on top of these stitches, but I feel they are just a theatrical neccessity as the ruffs are not properly starched and must keep their shapes in nylon material. Or is there evidence that these stitches would have been used as a decorative feature as well and that they are documentable? Thank you, Hanna -- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 19:55:26 +0100 From: Suzi Clarke s...@suziclarke.co.uk Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stitching on ruffs To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Message-ID: 7.0.1.0.2.20090409195249.03cb2...@suziclarke.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed At 19:39 09/04/2009, you wrote: Hello, has anyone ever seen a ruff that really had the stitching along the outer edge to keep the 8s in shape? Period Costume for Stage and Screen even suggests embellishing the ruff with beads on top of these stitches, but I feel they are just a theatrical neccessity as the ruffs are not properly starched and must keep their shapes in nylon material. Or is there evidence that these stitches would have been used as a decorative feature as well and that they are documentable? I have seen pictures of ruffs where the 8s are apparently held together, probably with wax (see Janet Arnold). I am sure I also have a photo of a ruff held with red beads - I'll have to go and look for that though - my library is not next to the computer! Suzi -- If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail or any attachments have been sent to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect of information in the e-mail or attachments. Please consider the environment before printing this email. -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] stitching on ruffs [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
Is the stronger white line at the base some kind of support? I wonder how much this one weighs!! Beautiful in it's curved shapes but way more than I'd want to wear. Sincerely, Rebecca Rautine Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 09:29:05 +1000 From: annette.wil...@environment.gov.au To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] stitching on ruffs [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] Until recently I had thought that the figure-of-eight ruffs were never stitched to hold the shape, but last week I found a portrait in a current Sotherby's catalogue for a sale of Old Master and early British paintings. This is the link to the catalogue: http://www.sothebys.com/app/paddleReg/paddlereg.do?dispatch=eventDetails event_id=29138 and the particular painting is: http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159527660 The ruff is formed with a lattice effect, intersecting 4 times, and there is a pearl at every intersection, with a group of 3 pearls at the top and bottom edge. I think the pearls are stitched on, rather than representing pin-heads, especially given the groups of pearls at top and bottom. It would be a nightmare to reset after washing. I have never seen anything similar - has anyone else? Suzi, is this similar to the one you referred to. Needless to say I have downloaded it for future reference. Annette Wilson - Message: 2 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:39:41 +0200 From: Hanna Zickermann h.zickerm...@gmx.de Subject: [h-cost] Stitching on ruffs To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Message-ID: 200904091839.n39iduov018...@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hello, has anyone ever seen a ruff that really had the stitching along the outer edge to keep the 8s in shape? Period Costume for Stage and Screen even suggests embellishing the ruff with beads on top of these stitches, but I feel they are just a theatrical neccessity as the ruffs are not properly starched and must keep their shapes in nylon material. Or is there evidence that these stitches would have been used as a decorative feature as well and that they are documentable? Thank you, Hanna -- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 19:55:26 +0100 From: Suzi Clarke s...@suziclarke.co.uk Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stitching on ruffs To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Message-ID: 7.0.1.0.2.20090409195249.03cb2...@suziclarke.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed At 19:39 09/04/2009, you wrote: Hello, has anyone ever seen a ruff that really had the stitching along the outer edge to keep the 8s in shape? Period Costume for Stage and Screen even suggests embellishing the ruff with beads on top of these stitches, but I feel they are just a theatrical neccessity as the ruffs are not properly starched and must keep their shapes in nylon material. Or is there evidence that these stitches would have been used as a decorative feature as well and that they are documentable? I have seen pictures of ruffs where the 8s are apparently held together, probably with wax (see Janet Arnold). I am sure I also have a photo of a ruff held with red beads - I'll have to go and look for that though - my library is not next to the computer! Suzi -- If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail or any attachments have been sent to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect of information in the e-mail or attachments. Please consider the environment before printing this email. -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet Explorer 8. http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] stitching on ruffs [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
If you zoom in on it, you can see that there is clearly a separate supporter below the ruff itself. The supporter has the lower row of pearl clusters attached to it, not to the ruff. The lower pearl clusters do not match up with the loops of the ruff, whereas the clusters on top do. While the single pearls at the junctions in the ruff could be either sewn on or on pin heads, the pearl clusters around the top of the ruff sure look like they are be sewn on as I don't see any trace of pins up there. Of course, there's no trace of pins in the middle either, but in this instance, I would opt for pinheads in the middle just for ease of ironing. If you carefully trace the lines, you'll note that the fabric is just one continuous single ruffle which has been pinned twice (creating that little box shape) rather than once in the middle. Ginni Morgan Becky Rautine zearti...@hotmail.com 4/13/09 5:32 PM Is the stronger white line at the base some kind of support? I wonder how much this one weighs!! Beautiful in it's curved shapes but way more than I'd want to wear. Sincerely, Rebecca Rautine Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 09:29:05 +1000 From: annette.wil...@environment.gov.au To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] stitching on ruffs [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] Until recently I had thought that the figure-of-eight ruffs were never stitched to hold the shape, but last week I found a portrait in a current Sotherby's catalogue for a sale of Old Master and early British paintings. This is the link to the catalogue: http://www.sothebys.com/app/paddleReg/paddlereg.do?dispatch=eventDetails event_id=29138 and the particular painting is: http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159527660 The ruff is formed with a lattice effect, intersecting 4 times, and there is a pearl at every intersection, with a group of 3 pearls at the top and bottom edge. I think the pearls are stitched on, rather than representing pin-heads, especially given the groups of pearls at top and bottom. It would be a nightmare to reset after washing. I have never seen anything similar - has anyone else? Suzi, is this similar to the one you referred to. Needless to say I have downloaded it for future reference. Annette Wilson - Message: 2 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:39:41 +0200 From: Hanna Zickermann h.zickerm...@gmx.de Subject: [h-cost] Stitching on ruffs To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Message-ID: 200904091839.n39iduov018...@net.indra.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hello, has anyone ever seen a ruff that really had the stitching along the outer edge to keep the 8s in shape? Period Costume for Stage and Screen even suggests embellishing the ruff with beads on top of these stitches, but I feel they are just a theatrical neccessity as the ruffs are not properly starched and must keep their shapes in nylon material. Or is there evidence that these stitches would have been used as a decorative feature as well and that they are documentable? Thank you, Hanna -- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 19:55:26 +0100 From: Suzi Clarke s...@suziclarke.co.uk Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stitching on ruffs To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Message-ID: 7.0.1.0.2.20090409195249.03cb2...@suziclarke.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed At 19:39 09/04/2009, you wrote: Hello, has anyone ever seen a ruff that really had the stitching along the outer edge to keep the 8s in shape? Period Costume for Stage and Screen even suggests embellishing the ruff with beads on top of these stitches, but I feel they are just a theatrical neccessity as the ruffs are not properly starched and must keep their shapes in nylon material. Or is there evidence that these stitches would have been used as a decorative feature as well and that they are documentable? I have seen pictures of ruffs where the 8s are apparently held together, probably with wax (see Janet Arnold). I am sure I also have a photo of a ruff held with red beads - I'll have to go and look for that though - my library is not next to the computer! Suzi -- If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail or any attachments have been sent to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect of information in the e-mail or attachments. Please consider the environment before printing this email. -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live
