Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
At 12:13 PM 1/26/2007, you wrote: So my housemate got the job of making three bridesmaids' dresses in two weeks from some OTHER color. grin I hope she charged them a hefty rush fee! Dianne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26/01/2007 02:58 wrote: Bear in mind that the meanings of many Victorian color names changed from fashion season to fashion season; and also, different, trendier names were often applied to the same old colors. I find this is still true. Here in the UK aubergine is usually a dark purple (the colour of what you Americans call eggplants), but in a recent catalogue I've seen the name applied to a lighter pinkish-purple. __ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
American here - ultramarine was strong darkish slightly greenish blue for me -when I was a girl - maybe a generational, not national, thing? Patty -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 4:22 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help At 09:06 26/01/2007, you wrote: Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26/01/2007 02:58 wrote: Bear in mind that the meanings of many Victorian color names changed from fashion season to fashion season; and also, different, trendier names were often applied to the same old colors. I find this is still true. Here in the UK aubergine is usually a dark purple (the colour of what you Americans call eggplants), but in a recent catalogue I've seen the name applied to a lighter pinkish-purple. I was buying cotton thread yesterday, and the mauve/purple/paler aubergine thread was called Ultramarine. Now when I was a girl, as they say, ultramarine was a strong darkish bright blue. My American companion said that the purple-ish colour was a colour/name association she knew - I didn't! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
I'm American, as well, and, like Patty, always thought of ultramarine as a slightly greenish darkish blue (like a bright navy with a hint of green to it). If I remember to put aubergine through my mental translation program, and think oh, yeah...that's equivalent to eggplant, I wouldn't think of it as anything but a really strong, dark purple. Dunno about the generational thing--maybe the yahoos who are coming up with new names for next season's in colors are running out of ideas? ;o) --Sue - Original Message - From: Rickard, Patty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 7:58 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help American here - ultramarine was strong darkish slightly greenish blue for me -when I was a girl - maybe a generational, not national, thing? Patty -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 4:22 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help At 09:06 26/01/2007, you wrote: Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26/01/2007 02:58 wrote: Bear in mind that the meanings of many Victorian color names changed from fashion season to fashion season; and also, different, trendier names were often applied to the same old colors. I find this is still true. Here in the UK aubergine is usually a dark purple (the colour of what you Americans call eggplants), but in a recent catalogue I've seen the name applied to a lighter pinkish-purple. I was buying cotton thread yesterday, and the mauve/purple/paler aubergine thread was called Ultramarine. Now when I was a girl, as they say, ultramarine was a strong darkish bright blue. My American companion said that the purple-ish colour was a colour/name association she knew - I didn't! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
At 14:58 26/01/2007, you wrote: American here - ultramarine was strong darkish slightly greenish blue for me -when I was a girl - maybe a generational, not national, thing? Patty Could be - I was old enough to be this lady's mother. According to my small dictionary - too lazy to heave out the O.E.D. - ultramarine is a blue pigment. The thread I bought was not blue! I find this is still true. Here in the UK aubergine is usually a dark purple (the colour of what you Americans call eggplants), but in a recent catalogue I've seen the name applied to a lighter pinkish-purple. I was buying cotton thread yesterday, and the mauve/purple/paler aubergine thread was called Ultramarine. Now when I was a girl, as they say, ultramarine was a strong darkish bright blue. My American companion said that the purple-ish colour was a colour/name association she knew - I didn't! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
I believe that ultramarine was originally made from lapis lazuli would be similar in color. Patty -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:09 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help At 14:58 26/01/2007, you wrote: American here - ultramarine was strong darkish slightly greenish blue for me -when I was a girl - maybe a generational, not national, thing? Patty Could be - I was old enough to be this lady's mother. According to my small dictionary - too lazy to heave out the O.E.D. - ultramarine is a blue pigment. The thread I bought was not blue! I find this is still true. Here in the UK aubergine is usually a dark purple (the colour of what you Americans call eggplants), but in a recent catalogue I've seen the name applied to a lighter pinkish-purple. I was buying cotton thread yesterday, and the mauve/purple/paler aubergine thread was called Ultramarine. Now when I was a girl, as they say, ultramarine was a strong darkish bright blue. My American companion said that the purple-ish colour was a colour/name association she knew - I didn't! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
Just checked my small dictionary - ultramarine was named because the pigment came from over the sea, not because it looked like the sea as I had thought, so there was an ultramarine blue, an ultramarine purple even an ultramarine yellow. Patty -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:09 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help At 14:58 26/01/2007, you wrote: American here - ultramarine was strong darkish slightly greenish blue for me -when I was a girl - maybe a generational, not national, thing? Patty Could be - I was old enough to be this lady's mother. According to my small dictionary - too lazy to heave out the O.E.D. - ultramarine is a blue pigment. The thread I bought was not blue! I find this is still true. Here in the UK aubergine is usually a dark purple (the colour of what you Americans call eggplants), but in a recent catalogue I've seen the name applied to a lighter pinkish-purple. I was buying cotton thread yesterday, and the mauve/purple/paler aubergine thread was called Ultramarine. Now when I was a girl, as they say, ultramarine was a strong darkish bright blue. My American companion said that the purple-ish colour was a colour/name association she knew - I didn't! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
Ultramarine, like many other colors (magenta, Prussian blue, midnight blue, apricot, burnt sienna, ocher, even lavender), was described definitively and permanently for me in my youth by my big set of Crayola crayons. And Patty's description definitely squares with Crayola. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer p.s. The Crayola color flesh has been long since re-named. Lucky, that--I didn't know ANYBODY who was that color, but clearly it did imply that dark-skinned people were an aberration as far as the color of their flesh was concerned, and I'm glad that notion has been obliterated! Significantly, though, I never can remember what the new name is On Jan 26, 2007, at 9:58 AM, Rickard, Patty wrote: American here - ultramarine was strong darkish slightly greenish blue for me -when I was a girl - maybe a generational, not national, thing? Patty -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 4:22 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help At 09:06 26/01/2007, you wrote: Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26/01/2007 02:58 wrote: Bear in mind that the meanings of many Victorian color names changed from fashion season to fashion season; and also, different, trendier names were often applied to the same old colors. I find this is still true. Here in the UK aubergine is usually a dark purple (the colour of what you Americans call eggplants), but in a recent catalogue I've seen the name applied to a lighter pinkish-purple. I was buying cotton thread yesterday, and the mauve/purple/paler aubergine thread was called Ultramarine. Now when I was a girl, as they say, ultramarine was a strong darkish bright blue. My American companion said that the purple-ish colour was a colour/name association she knew - I didn't! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
A lot of these color names...ultramarine blue, ochre, sienna, burnt sienna, umber, burnt umber, cadmium red, cadmium yellow, alizarin crimson I learned when I was painting in oils. They also come up in watercolors and gauche. Obviously the names are derived from what was ground up to make pigments way back when painting was a guild profession, and supposedly the hues were the same from batch to batch of pigment. Sorta like a color-match system. So if a fresco painter in Milan writes to his fellow painter in Florence and talks about using burnt umber, everyone knows exactly what color he means. I had a scene painting teacher from Germany once who told us the only colors you needed to paint any scene were: lead white, alizarin crimson, ultramarine blue, and ochre. Period. He made us paint a pastoral setting with only these colors. It actually works, but you definitely get an old world muted look. Nowadays there are so many colors made so many different ways it can be mind boggling. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ruth Anne Baumgartner Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:50 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help Ultramarine, like many other colors (magenta, Prussian blue, midnight blue, apricot, burnt sienna, ocher, even lavender), was described definitively and permanently for me in my youth by my big set of Crayola crayons. And Patty's description definitely squares with Crayola. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer p.s. The Crayola color flesh has been long since re-named. Lucky, that--I didn't know ANYBODY who was that color, but clearly it did imply that dark-skinned people were an aberration as far as the color of their flesh was concerned, and I'm glad that notion has been obliterated! Significantly, though, I never can remember what the new name is peach Patty On Jan 26, 2007, at 9:58 AM, Rickard, Patty wrote: American here - ultramarine was strong darkish slightly greenish blue for me -when I was a girl - maybe a generational, not national, thing? Patty -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 4:22 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help At 09:06 26/01/2007, you wrote: Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26/01/2007 02:58 wrote: Bear in mind that the meanings of many Victorian color names changed from fashion season to fashion season; and also, different, trendier names were often applied to the same old colors. I find this is still true. Here in the UK aubergine is usually a dark purple (the colour of what you Americans call eggplants), but in a recent catalogue I've seen the name applied to a lighter pinkish-purple. I was buying cotton thread yesterday, and the mauve/purple/paler aubergine thread was called Ultramarine. Now when I was a girl, as they say, ultramarine was a strong darkish bright blue. My American companion said that the purple-ish colour was a colour/name association she knew - I didn't! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
About color names in fashion -- there are actually official arbiters of color names. Many years ago I did an article on The Color Association, which each season releases a forecast booklet with named swatches of colors that will be used in fashion, home decoration, etc. for the coming season. The names are what fashion will call those colors in the appropriate season, and the forecasts exist so you can buy a peach sweater in one store and a peach skirt in another and have them match. I just found this article, which talks about the Color Association and bunch of other color forecasting organizations. http:// jscms.jrn.columbia.edu/cns/2006-05-02/willhite-colorforecast I think when I did my article, Color Association was the only one, as it is the oldest -- since 1915. http://www.colorassociation.com/ According to the Web site, they have extensive archives and a color library. They also offer a couple of books that I just put on my own wish list: The Color Compendium by Augustine Hope and Margaret Walch $40 hardcover This is the first comprehensive, illustrated encyclopedia entirely devoted to color. This extraordinary reference covers the full range of color-related subjects, including their scientific, technical, artistic, and historical aspects. and Living Colors : A Designer's Guide to 80 Essential Palettes from Ancient to Modern Times by Margaret Walch and Augustine Hope $35 hardcover A consummate guide to color, this indispensable, spiralbound volume displays 80 color schemes--drawn from a variety of different mediums, from architecture and apparel to paintings and pottery, across a range of historical periods--each individually presented, described, and illustrated in a handy, gatefold format, with representative four- color images and actual printed chips for matching against the project at hand. From the dominant reds of ancient Egyptian ochers to the psychedelic palettes of the sixties, Living Colors will inspire professionals and laypeople alike in choosing colors for a multitude of uses. Both are available by mail from the Color Association. More info: http://www.colorassociation.com/site/books.html Since they started in 1915, they probably do have resources back into at least late Victorian. Enjoy! Lauren Lauren M. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jan 26, 2007, at 1:05 PM, Rickard, Patty wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ruth Anne Baumgartner Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:50 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help Ultramarine, like many other colors (magenta, Prussian blue, midnight blue, apricot, burnt sienna, ocher, even lavender), was described definitively and permanently for me in my youth by my big set of Crayola crayons. And Patty's description definitely squares with Crayola. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer p.s. The Crayola color flesh has been long since re-named. Lucky, that--I didn't know ANYBODY who was that color, but clearly it did imply that dark-skinned people were an aberration as far as the color of their flesh was concerned, and I'm glad that notion has been obliterated! Significantly, though, I never can remember what the new name is peach Patty On Jan 26, 2007, at 9:58 AM, Rickard, Patty wrote: American here - ultramarine was strong darkish slightly greenish blue for me -when I was a girl - maybe a generational, not national, thing? Patty -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:h-costume- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 4:22 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help At 09:06 26/01/2007, you wrote: Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26/01/2007 02:58 wrote: Bear in mind that the meanings of many Victorian color names changed from fashion season to fashion season; and also, different, trendier names were often applied to the same old colors. I find this is still true. Here in the UK aubergine is usually a dark purple (the colour of what you Americans call eggplants), but in a recent catalogue I've seen the name applied to a lighter pinkish-purple. I was buying cotton thread yesterday, and the mauve/purple/paler aubergine thread was called Ultramarine. Now when I was a girl, as they say, ultramarine was a strong darkish bright blue. My American companion said that the purple-ish colour was a colour/name association she knew - I didn't! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume
PS:Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
PS: So, yes, in case it was driving you crazy -- there really IS an organized conspiracy to make color names confusing. ;-) Lauren Lauren M. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
and the forecasts exist so you can buy a peach sweater in one store and a peach skirt in another and have them match. hahahahahaaaaa! Nice in theory, but I've *never* seen it happen. At least not in the stores where I shop. Maybe in couture shopping...I couldn't say. Denise B Iowa ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
Yeah, I know -- but *theoretically* if the peach were called Georgia Bloom in both stores, or whatever, then they would match. I don't think the restriction goes as high as couture, though -- it does get down into ready-to-wear, but if you're like me and you buy on sale a lot, you don't know what season's clothes you're actually buying, for starters. The proliferation of color forecasters has probably changed things, too. Lauren Lauren M. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jan 26, 2007, at 2:34 PM, Land of Oz wrote: and the forecasts exist so you can buy a peach sweater in one store and a peach skirt in another and have them match. hahahahahaaaaa! Nice in theory, but I've *never* seen it happen. At least not in the stores where I shop. Maybe in couture shopping...I couldn't say. Denise B Iowa ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
At 19:46 26/01/2007, you wrote: Yeah, I know -- but *theoretically* if the peach were called Georgia Bloom in both stores, or whatever, then they would match. I don't think the restriction goes as high as couture, though -- it does get down into ready-to-wear, but if you're like me and you buy on sale a lot, you don't know what season's clothes you're actually buying, for starters. The proliferation of color forecasters has probably changed things, too. Lauren Lauren M. Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here in the U.K. I am wearing amethyst pants, mauve sweater, and aubergine cardigan, and they all match. Not only that, they nearly match the ultramarine thread that started all this!! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
I'm American, as well, and, like Patty, always thought of ultramarine as a slightly greenish darkish blue (like a bright navy with a hint of green to it). If I remember to put aubergine through my mental translation program, and think oh, yeah...that's equivalent to eggplant, I wouldn't think of it as anything but a really strong, dark purple. These are the descriptions I am familiar with Anne -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.12/653 - Release Date: 1/26/2007 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
At 15:27 26/01/2007, you wrote: Just checked my small dictionary - ultramarine was named because the pigment came from over the sea, not because it looked like the sea as I had thought, so there was an ultramarine blue, an ultramarine purple even an ultramarine yellow. Patty Oh, now I'm really confused - I think my olours come from paints like others have mentioned. (Ultramarine being blue like lapis lazuli!) Suzi At 14:58 26/01/2007, you wrote: American here - ultramarine was strong darkish slightly greenish blue for me -when I was a girl - maybe a generational, not national, thing? Patty Could be - I was old enough to be this lady's mother. According to my small dictionary - too lazy to heave out the O.E.D. - ultramarine is a blue pigment. The thread I bought was not blue! I find this is still true. Here in the UK aubergine is usually a dark purple (the colour of what you Americans call eggplants), but in a recent catalogue I've seen the name applied to a lighter pinkish-purple. I was buying cotton thread yesterday, and the mauve/purple/paler aubergine thread was called Ultramarine. Now when I was a girl, as they say, ultramarine was a strong darkish bright blue. My American companion said that the purple-ish colour was a colour/name association she knew - I didn't! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
My husband does model wargaming, and I'm always entertained by the names of the paints, shaded specifically for the different armies' uniforms and camouflage designs. Israeli desert pink is a favourite! Jean Ruth Anne Baumgartner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Ultramarine, like many other colors (magenta, Prussian blue, midnight blue, apricot, burnt sienna, ocher, even lavender), was described definitively and permanently for me in my youth by my big set of Crayola crayons. And Patty's description definitely squares with Crayola. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer p.s. The Crayola color flesh has been long since re-named. Lucky, that--I didn't know ANYBODY who was that color, but clearly it did imply that dark-skinned people were an aberration as far as the color of their flesh was concerned, and I'm glad that notion has been obliterated! Significantly, though, I never can remember what the new name is On Jan 26, 2007, at 9:58 AM, Rickard, Patty wrote: American here - ultramarine was strong darkish slightly greenish blue for me -when I was a girl - maybe a generational, not national, thing? Patty -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 4:22 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help At 09:06 26/01/2007, you wrote: Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26/01/2007 02:58 wrote: Bear in mind that the meanings of many Victorian color names changed from fashion season to fashion season; and also, different, trendier names were often applied to the same old colors. I find this is still true. Here in the UK aubergine is usually a dark purple (the colour of what you Americans call eggplants), but in a recent catalogue I've seen the name applied to a lighter pinkish-purple. I was buying cotton thread yesterday, and the mauve/purple/paler aubergine thread was called Ultramarine. Now when I was a girl, as they say, ultramarine was a strong darkish bright blue. My American companion said that the purple-ish colour was a colour/name association she knew - I didn't! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
That's probably because I, too, was imprinted by Crayola! Patty -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ruth Anne Baumgartner Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:50 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help Ultramarine, like many other colors (magenta, Prussian blue, midnight blue, apricot, burnt sienna, ocher, even lavender), was described definitively and permanently for me in my youth by my big set of Crayola crayons. And Patty's description definitely squares with Crayola. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer p.s. The Crayola color flesh has been long since re-named. Lucky, that--I didn't know ANYBODY who was that color, but clearly it did imply that dark-skinned people were an aberration as far as the color of their flesh was concerned, and I'm glad that notion has been obliterated! Significantly, though, I never can remember what the new name is On Jan 26, 2007, at 9:58 AM, Rickard, Patty wrote: American here - ultramarine was strong darkish slightly greenish blue for me -when I was a girl - maybe a generational, not national, thing? Patty -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 4:22 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help At 09:06 26/01/2007, you wrote: Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor Lavolta Press [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26/01/2007 02:58 wrote: Bear in mind that the meanings of many Victorian color names changed from fashion season to fashion season; and also, different, trendier names were often applied to the same old colors. I find this is still true. Here in the UK aubergine is usually a dark purple (the colour of what you Americans call eggplants), but in a recent catalogue I've seen the name applied to a lighter pinkish-purple. I was buying cotton thread yesterday, and the mauve/purple/paler aubergine thread was called Ultramarine. Now when I was a girl, as they say, ultramarine was a strong darkish bright blue. My American companion said that the purple-ish colour was a colour/name association she knew - I didn't! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
Sorry to confuse the issue - it's just that the word ultramarine (not the color) means beyond or on the other side of (ultra) the sea (marine) so that a pigment or mineral (lapis) that came from afar might be called ultramarine regardless of the color. We seem to have shortened ultramarine blue to just ultramarine (maybe to correspond to infrared ultraviolet). Patty -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Suzi Clarke Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 12:39 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help At 15:27 26/01/2007, you wrote: Just checked my small dictionary - ultramarine was named because the pigment came from over the sea, not because it looked like the sea as I had thought, so there was an ultramarine blue, an ultramarine purple even an ultramarine yellow. Patty Oh, now I'm really confused - I think my olours come from paints like others have mentioned. (Ultramarine being blue like lapis lazuli!) Suzi At 14:58 26/01/2007, you wrote: American here - ultramarine was strong darkish slightly greenish blue for me -when I was a girl - maybe a generational, not national, thing? Patty Could be - I was old enough to be this lady's mother. According to my small dictionary - too lazy to heave out the O.E.D. - ultramarine is a blue pigment. The thread I bought was not blue! I find this is still true. Here in the UK aubergine is usually a dark purple (the colour of what you Americans call eggplants), but in a recent catalogue I've seen the name applied to a lighter pinkish-purple. I was buying cotton thread yesterday, and the mauve/purple/paler aubergine thread was called Ultramarine. Now when I was a girl, as they say, ultramarine was a strong darkish bright blue. My American companion said that the purple-ish colour was a colour/name association she knew - I didn't! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost]Colour names, was Need Help
In a message dated 1/26/2007 3:02:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Here in the U.K. I am wearing amethyst pants, mauve sweater, and aubergine cardigan, and they all match. Not only that, they nearly match the ultramarine thread that started all this!! Suzi * LOL ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
