Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
-Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Collier Sent: Wednesday, 27 May 2009 9:37 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress I am looking for a picture or instructions for a late Elizabethan headdress. I do not want the French hood that covers the ears, rather I am looking for the fancy roll that sits further back on the head. I believe these were attached to a caul, but I'm not sure. Any advice/ideas/pictures/links would be appreciated. Sharon C. ___ Have you looked at the Tudor effigies database? http://www.tudoreffigies.co.uk it doesn't have instructions but seeing something in 3 dimensions often helps to get a better idea of construction than relying on portraits alone. HTH Elizabeth --- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra, Australia http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
On May 28, 2009, at 12:58 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: What would the veil be made of? Silk? Linen? And what color? Sharon In Queen Elizabeth's portraits, her veils are generally very transparent and white or pale gold. They're probably silk, but the white ones could be an extremely sheer linen. On May 28, 2009, at 1:02 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: In the second picture, I don't see any type of veiling hanging from the back. Do you think it was a caul or just that the veil can't be seen? Sharon -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume- boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sagittarius Uisce Beatha Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:15 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress I'm going by what it looks like to me. http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/13.jpg in that picture the back shape looks like the QEI picture except this one covers the ears. According to the site that you just linked me to, it says later period french hoods are more often referred to as billiments because the hood itself had gotten so small. http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/48.jpg This one doesn't cover the ears and you can see the crescent nicely. It's pictures like that, that make me say french hood. The second picture is of a French hood, which has a black velvet hood on the back, not a veil. If you're willing to go Spanish, French, or Italian 16th-century, you could get away with just jewels and ribbons in your hair, or jewels and ribbons plus a sheer veil. Like these: http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/UnknownLady45.jpg (Italian) http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/ElizabethAustria.jpg (French) http://www.flg.es/ficha.asp?ID=2726 (Spanish) Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/Theophila.jpg Now, that portrait of Theophilia is very interesting. It is hard to tell from such a small bw repro, but doesn't it look as if the forehead cloth is tied _over_ the coif? Look at what little we can see of her hairline. Look at the corner where the headcloth coif meet. Can anyone else see the fainter line leading diagonally down across her coif? It goes out of sight 'round the back of her head just a little higher than eyebrow level. (If we could see her eyebrows, which seem to be either plucked or bleached.) I wonder if she put on ther headcloth, then the cowl, then wrapped those ribbons or strings from the headcloth around the back of the coif? Who owns this panting? I wanna go look at it! And look at the other side. See that little bit that sticks out? Is that a ruffle? Maria from Alderford ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
Oh, Wow, those are great! And it seems that the jeweled band I saw in front facing portraits was actually sitting farther back on the head, behind or on a plain band, with a caul being that. I guess from the front, with the hair poufs, the plain band would have been invisible, only the jeweled part sticking up high enough to be seen by the painter. One woman had 2 bands of jewels-Mary Harve(y)1593. Another had a very proud band but with a flat square on top, like a mortarboard-Joan Suckling 1589. Thank you, now I will re-think my headdress. Sharon -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Walpole Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 5:59 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Collier Sent: Wednesday, 27 May 2009 9:37 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress I am looking for a picture or instructions for a late Elizabethan headdress. I do not want the French hood that covers the ears, rather I am looking for the fancy roll that sits further back on the head. I believe these were attached to a caul, but I'm not sure. Any advice/ideas/pictures/links would be appreciated. Sharon C. ___ Have you looked at the Tudor effigies database? http://www.tudoreffigies.co.uk it doesn't have instructions but seeing something in 3 dimensions often helps to get a better idea of construction than relying on portraits alone. HTH Elizabeth --- Elizabeth Walpole Canberra, Australia http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
Thank you. Very interesting. Looks like what I want is a caul with a decorated billiment. Does that sound like what they were wearing in 1570's? -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Jane Stockton Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:38 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress At 11:28 AM 27/05/2009, you wrote: Late Elizabethan, when ladies' hair was often (in portraits, at least) puffed at the front, and with a cap or something (hard to see because of course, it's on the back of the head). Often seemed to have quite a bit of jewelling/fancy work. Nothing in colour, but much better for getting structure - try my blog: http://plainattyre.blogspot.com/ You will have to scroll back, page by page, but you should be able to find several examples of what you are looking for. Cheers, Jane Jane Stockton - jane_stock...@webcon.net.au Barony of Mordenvale, Kingdom of Lochac Stocktons Historical Embroidery - http://stocktons.webcon.net.au/ (shop) In Prayse of the Needle - http://needleprayse.webcon.net.au/ (personal website) Historical Needlework Resources - http://medieval.webcon.net.au/ (resource website) The Needles' Excellency - http://laren.blogspot.com/ (blog) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
On May 27, 2009, at 2:59 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: Thank you. Very interesting. Looks like what I want is a caul with a decorated billiment. Does that sound like what they were wearing in 1570's? A caul on its own is more likely. Billiments generally appeared on the front of French hoods. Images do appear of a billiment with a gathered bag on the back, like these: http://www.flickr.com/photos/52219...@n00/517628674/ http://www.artsmia.org/viewer/detail.php?v=12id=548 but they generally appear on children, not adults. The exception I've found is Christina of Denmark http://www.oberlin.edu/amam/images/coxcie_michiel_fi_000.jpg http://www.studio-international.co.uk/studio-images/holbein/ Christina_b.jpg but hers lacks a decorative billiment. This one http://www.englandhistory.com/sections/government/Monarchs/ ElizabethI.jpg looks like a decorated caul with a veil pinned so that the edge makes small scallops over the top. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
Try googling Elizabethan geek She's got a great website. Arlys On Tue, 26 May 2009 16:37:18 -0700 Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com writes: I am looking for a picture or instructions for a late Elizabethan headdress. I do not want the French hood that covers the ears, rather I am looking for the fancy roll that sits further back on the head. I believe these were attached to a caul, but I'm not sure. Any advice/ideas/pictures/links would be appreciated. Sharon C. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Save on Security Cameras. Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTGTDRYHSmaZjEmEWDhOOb3jtvldOzA1mtFBDRS4JS30EY3bt6Znck/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
On May 27, 2009, at 2:59 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: Thank you. Very interesting. Looks like what I want is a caul with a decorated billiment. Does that sound like what they were wearing in 1570's? Have you looked here yet? http://www.extremecostuming.com/articles/howtowearthecoif.html http://www.extremecostuming.com/reproductions/vacoift281975.html I suspect that this is what you want. jerusha/ susan - Susan Farmer sfar...@goldsword.com Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
While I agree with Laura on how coifs were probably worn, there is some debate about who would have worn them and under what circumstances. In the 1570s, coifs were probably worn in public mostly by the middle and lower classes, not by the upper and noble classes. The very fancy ones that survive were probably home/ sleepwear. The only exception I can think of off-hand is Theophilia, wife of the 3rd Earl of Worcester (1567): http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/Theophila.jpg Please note that she's also wearing a forehead cloth. If you're doing an upper or noble class outfit, there is this one piece of evidence for coif-wearing, but you might be better served with a more formal type of headwear. Melanie Schuessler On May 27, 2009, at 11:11 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: On May 27, 2009, at 2:59 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: Thank you. Very interesting. Looks like what I want is a caul with a decorated billiment. Does that sound like what they were wearing in 1570's? Have you looked here yet? http://www.extremecostuming.com/articles/howtowearthecoif.html http://www.extremecostuming.com/reproductions/vacoift281975.html I suspect that this is what you want. jerusha/ susan - Susan Farmer sfar...@goldsword.com Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
Yes, that looks very much like what I want to make. Is it a flat piece, like a french hood, or a decorated roll? -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sagittarius Uisce Beatha Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:30 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress Here's a picture of Queen Elizabeth I (1575) wearing what I think you're describing: http://www.englandhistory.com/sections/government/Monarchs/ElizabethI.jpg From my understanding, it's still essentially a french hood just a smaller version so all that can be seen of it is the crescent. http://www.elizabethancostume.net/headwear/frenchhood.html. If you scroll to the bottom there's a paragraph about french hoods of the later period that you seek. There's also another page that tells you how to construct a french hood, unfortunately the pattern for the later period isn't there but the earlier periods are. Maybe you can adapt the pattern to suit what you're looking for. On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.comwrote: Late Elizabethan, when ladies' hair was often (in portraits, at least) puffed at the front, and with a cap or something (hard to see because of course, it's on the back of the head). Often seemed to have quite a bit of jewelling/fancy work. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
Just to make sure I understand this, there is a difference between coif and caul, isn't there? I've always thought the coif was the embroider (or not) little hat item that covers the top, side and back of the head, basically a shaped folded piece of cloth. A caul was more of a cap worn on the back of the head, covering the hair that was put back in a bun/braid. It would be highly decorated with beads, jewels and embroidery. there may or may not be a veil pinned to the caul as well. alex On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com wrote: If not a coif/caul, what? I don't want something to cover the ears. Did french hoods sit back farther on the head later in the century? I keep seeing pictures with what appears to be a jeweled or fancy fabric headband type of thing, but don't know how to make it. And have no idea what the back of such an item would look like. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melanie Schuessler Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:11 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress While I agree with Laura on how coifs were probably worn, there is some debate about who would have worn them and under what circumstances. In the 1570s, coifs were probably worn in public mostly by the middle and lower classes, not by the upper and noble classes. The very fancy ones that survive were probably home/ sleepwear. The only exception I can think of off-hand is Theophilia, wife of the 3rd Earl of Worcester (1567): http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/Theophila.jpg Please note that she's also wearing a forehead cloth. If you're doing an upper or noble class outfit, there is this one piece of evidence for coif-wearing, but you might be better served with a more formal type of headwear. Melanie Schuessler On May 27, 2009, at 11:11 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: On May 27, 2009, at 2:59 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: Thank you. Very interesting. Looks like what I want is a caul with a decorated billiment. Does that sound like what they were wearing in 1570's? Have you looked here yet? http://www.extremecostuming.com/articles/howtowearthecoif.html http://www.extremecostuming.com/reproductions/vacoift281975.html I suspect that this is what you want. jerusha/ susan - Susan Farmer sfar...@goldsword.com Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- So much to do and so little attention span to get it done with… ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
I was going to make a caul, but was looking for something different to go over/with it, hence the decorated roll/billiment/whatever. I had a hat before, but found that it gets really hot, so was hoping to find something less. Sharon -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Alexandria Doyle Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:01 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress Just to make sure I understand this, there is a difference between coif and caul, isn't there? I've always thought the coif was the embroider (or not) little hat item that covers the top, side and back of the head, basically a shaped folded piece of cloth. A caul was more of a cap worn on the back of the head, covering the hair that was put back in a bun/braid. It would be highly decorated with beads, jewels and embroidery. there may or may not be a veil pinned to the caul as well. alex On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com wrote: If not a coif/caul, what? I don't want something to cover the ears. Did french hoods sit back farther on the head later in the century? I keep seeing pictures with what appears to be a jeweled or fancy fabric headband type of thing, but don't know how to make it. And have no idea what the back of such an item would look like. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melanie Schuessler Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:11 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress While I agree with Laura on how coifs were probably worn, there is some debate about who would have worn them and under what circumstances. In the 1570s, coifs were probably worn in public mostly by the middle and lower classes, not by the upper and noble classes. The very fancy ones that survive were probably home/ sleepwear. The only exception I can think of off-hand is Theophilia, wife of the 3rd Earl of Worcester (1567): http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/Theophila.jpg Please note that she's also wearing a forehead cloth. If you're doing an upper or noble class outfit, there is this one piece of evidence for coif-wearing, but you might be better served with a more formal type of headwear. Melanie Schuessler On May 27, 2009, at 11:11 AM, Susan Farmer wrote: On May 27, 2009, at 2:59 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: Thank you. Very interesting. Looks like what I want is a caul with a decorated billiment. Does that sound like what they were wearing in 1570's? Have you looked here yet? http://www.extremecostuming.com/articles/howtowearthecoif.html http://www.extremecostuming.com/reproductions/vacoift281975.html I suspect that this is what you want. jerusha/ susan - Susan Farmer sfar...@goldsword.com Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- So much to do and so little attention span to get it done with ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
From my understanding, it's constructed like a french hood except the base doesn't cover the ears but sits more like a headband with the crescent sitting on top. http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/270/Elizabeth-I-of-England-The-Darnley-Portrait-kings-and-queens-2710388-800-1170.jpg, If you look in that picture of QEI, you'll see that there's also still a veil attached as well. As for the very back, I couldn't say for sure if there is a bag there or not. Or if there is a coif made to fit under such a small hood. From the looks of it, you still have the flat piece that the crescent sits on, but the crescent basically takes it over. It's really hard to say for sure as the bouffant hair covers the detail of the base. On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 1:12 PM, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.comwrote: Yes, that looks very much like what I want to make. Is it a flat piece, like a french hood, or a decorated roll? -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sagittarius Uisce Beatha Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:30 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress Here's a picture of Queen Elizabeth I (1575) wearing what I think you're describing: http://www.englandhistory.com/sections/government/Monarchs/ElizabethI.jpg From my understanding, it's still essentially a french hood just a smaller version so all that can be seen of it is the crescent. http://www.elizabethancostume.net/headwear/frenchhood.html. If you scroll to the bottom there's a paragraph about french hoods of the later period that you seek. There's also another page that tells you how to construct a french hood, unfortunately the pattern for the later period isn't there but the earlier periods are. Maybe you can adapt the pattern to suit what you're looking for. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
I think a caul would work with the later period french hood/billiment, especially in the heat. On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.comwrote: I was going to make a caul, but was looking for something different to go over/with it, hence the decorated roll/billiment/whatever. I had a hat before, but found that it gets really hot, so was hoping to find something less. Sharon ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
On May 27, 2009, at 2:00 PM, Alexandria Doyle wrote: Just to make sure I understand this, there is a difference between coif and caul, isn't there? Yes. At least modern people make a distinction. I've always thought the coif was the embroider (or not) little hat item that covers the top, side and back of the head, basically a shaped folded piece of cloth. It's sewn up at the top and gathered across the back of the neck. You can see images of coifs both flat and sewn up here: http://www.elizabethancostume.net/headwear/coifpics.html The distinguishing features of coifs are the shape when laid flat and the ground fabric, which was pretty much always white linen. Some are plain, some embroidered with blackwork, some with polychrome embroidery, and some even have gold thread and spangles on them. A caul was more of a cap worn on the back of the head, covering the hair that was put back in a bun/braid. It's basically a circle gathered and sewn to one side of a straight band whose short ends have been joined--at least, that is a construction that results in something that looks like what we see in the portraits. I don't know that we have any extant ones. The band is what you see in most portraits that show it, such as the one of Queen Elizabeth that has been referenced a few times in this thread. In 16th-century portraits, cauls (when the word is used to mean a cap and not a net) generally look like they are made of a fancier fabric (i.e., not white linen, and probably not linen at all) and are often decorated. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
It might be cooler, but if you are concerned with historical accuracy, be aware that this is a modern hybrid and not a historical style. What about putting a veil over it, as Elizabeth did? Melanie Schuessler On May 27, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Sagittarius Uisce Beatha wrote: I think a caul would work with the later period french hood/billiment, especially in the heat. On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.comwrote: I was going to make a caul, but was looking for something different to go over/with it, hence the decorated roll/billiment/whatever. I had a hat before, but found that it gets really hot, so was hoping to find something less. Sharon ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
I'm going by what it looks like to me. http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/13.jpg in that picture the back shape looks like the QEI picture except this one covers the ears. According to the site that you just linked me to, it says later period french hoods are more often referred to as billiments because the hood itself had gotten so small. http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/48.jpg This one doesn't cover the ears and you can see the crescent nicely. It's pictures like that, that make me say french hood. On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Melanie Schuessler mela...@faucet.netwrote: I don't think this is any variety of French hood at all, but rather a caul or cap made of a circle gathered to a band. You can find diagrams and instructions on the top half of this page: http://www.elizabethancostume.net/headwear/caulmake.html I should amend my statement in my previous email about cauls not being made of linen--that was in reference to upper-class cauls. Clearly lower-class women did wear white linen cauls, as can be seen in many Flemish genre paintings. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
On May 27, 2009, at 5:14 PM, Sagittarius Uisce Beatha wrote: I'm going by what it looks like to me. http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/13.jpg in that picture the back shape looks like the QEI picture except this one covers the ears. According to the site that you just linked me to, it says later period french hoods are more often referred to as billiments because the hood itself had gotten so small. http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/48.jpg This one doesn't cover the ears and you can see the crescent nicely. It's pictures like that, that make me say french hood. These are both definitely French hoods. The white crescent with gold on either side and black behind (the black is the hood) are a dead giveaway. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
What would the veil be made of? Silk? Linen? And what color? Sharon -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melanie Schuessler Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:51 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress It might be cooler, but if you are concerned with historical accuracy, be aware that this is a modern hybrid and not a historical style. What about putting a veil over it, as Elizabeth did? Melanie Schuessler On May 27, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Sagittarius Uisce Beatha wrote: I think a caul would work with the later period french hood/billiment, especially in the heat. On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.comwrote: I was going to make a caul, but was looking for something different to go over/with it, hence the decorated roll/billiment/whatever. I had a hat before, but found that it gets really hot, so was hoping to find something less. Sharon ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
In the second picture, I don't see any type of veiling hanging from the back. Do you think it was a caul or just that the veil can't be seen? Sharon -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Sagittarius Uisce Beatha Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:15 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress I'm going by what it looks like to me. http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/13.jpg in that picture the back shape looks like the QEI picture except this one covers the ears. According to the site that you just linked me to, it says later period french hoods are more often referred to as billiments because the hood itself had gotten so small. http://elizabethangeek.com/costumereview/images/48.jpg This one doesn't cover the ears and you can see the crescent nicely. It's pictures like that, that make me say french hood. On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Melanie Schuessler mela...@faucet.netwrote: I don't think this is any variety of French hood at all, but rather a caul or cap made of a circle gathered to a band. You can find diagrams and instructions on the top half of this page: http://www.elizabethancostume.net/headwear/caulmake.html I should amend my statement in my previous email about cauls not being made of linen--that was in reference to upper-class cauls. Clearly lower-class women did wear white linen cauls, as can be seen in many Flemish genre paintings. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
When you say Late Elizabethan, what do you mean by time period? And do you necessarily mean English? I have inserted a link below which is Italian, which is what was brought to my mind when you said fancy roll. Saragrace http://www.allposters.com/gallery.asp?aid=85097apnum=1347911LinkTypeID=1PosterTypeID=1DestType=7Referrer%20=http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/bacchiacca_francesco.html From: sha...@collierfam.com To: h-cost...@indra.com Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 16:37:18 -0700 Subject: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress I am looking for a picture or instructions for a late Elizabethan headdress. I do not want the French hood that covers the ears, rather I am looking for the fancy roll that sits further back on the head. I believe these were attached to a caul, but I'm not sure. Any advice/ideas/pictures/links would be appreciated. Sharon C. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
Late Elizabethan, when ladies' hair was often (in portraits, at least) puffed at the front, and with a cap or something (hard to see because of course, it's on the back of the head). Often seemed to have quite a bit of jewelling/fancy work. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:08 PM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress When you say Late Elizabethan, what do you mean by time period? And do you necessarily mean English? I have inserted a link below which is Italian, which is what was brought to my mind when you said fancy roll. Saragrace http://www.allposters.com/gallery.asp?aid=85097apnum=1347911LinkTypeID=1P osterTypeID=1DestType=7Referrer%20=http://www.artcyclopedia.com/artists/ba cchiacca_francesco.html From: sha...@collierfam.com To: h-cost...@indra.com Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 16:37:18 -0700 Subject: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress I am looking for a picture or instructions for a late Elizabethan headdress. I do not want the French hood that covers the ears, rather I am looking for the fancy roll that sits further back on the head. I believe these were attached to a caul, but I'm not sure. Any advice/ideas/pictures/links would be appreciated. Sharon C. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
At 11:28 AM 27/05/2009, you wrote: Late Elizabethan, when ladies' hair was often (in portraits, at least) puffed at the front, and with a cap or something (hard to see because of course, it's on the back of the head). Often seemed to have quite a bit of jewelling/fancy work. Nothing in colour, but much better for getting structure - try my blog: http://plainattyre.blogspot.com/ You will have to scroll back, page by page, but you should be able to find several examples of what you are looking for. Cheers, Jane Jane Stockton - jane_stock...@webcon.net.au Barony of Mordenvale, Kingdom of Lochac Stocktons Historical Embroidery - http://stocktons.webcon.net.au/ (shop) In Prayse of the Needle - http://needleprayse.webcon.net.au/ (personal website) Historical Needlework Resources - http://medieval.webcon.net.au/ (resource website) The Needles' Excellency - http://laren.blogspot.com/ (blog) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
Here's a picture of Queen Elizabeth I (1575) wearing what I think you're describing: http://www.englandhistory.com/sections/government/Monarchs/ElizabethI.jpg From my understanding, it's still essentially a french hood just a smaller version so all that can be seen of it is the crescent. http://www.elizabethancostume.net/headwear/frenchhood.html. If you scroll to the bottom there's a paragraph about french hoods of the later period that you seek. There's also another page that tells you how to construct a french hood, unfortunately the pattern for the later period isn't there but the earlier periods are. Maybe you can adapt the pattern to suit what you're looking for. On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.comwrote: Late Elizabethan, when ladies' hair was often (in portraits, at least) puffed at the front, and with a cap or something (hard to see because of course, it's on the back of the head). Often seemed to have quite a bit of jewelling/fancy work. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] late Elizabethan headdress
On Tuesday 26 May 2009 10:30:05 pm Sagittarius Uisce Beatha wrote: Here's a picture of Queen Elizabeth I (1575) wearing what I think you're http://www.elizabethancostume.net/headwear/frenchhood.html. If you scroll to the bottom there's a paragraph about french hoods of the later period that you seek. There's also another page that tells you how to construct a french hood, unfortunately the pattern for the later period isn't there but the earlier periods are. Maybe you can adapt the pattern to suit what you're looking for. Melanie Schussler just published an article on the evolution of French hood that's in the latest volume of Medieval Clothing and Textiles; she has some schematic drawings of French hoods, both early and late, that may be helpful. -- Cathy Raymond ca...@thyrsus.com All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed. --Sean O'Casey ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
