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Are you reading the same thread? When you crawl down off of your high horse you can explain to me where I say I care how many people are smoking pot? My statement was in the context that PUNISHMENT DETERS USAGE. You are entitled to your opinion but assuming so you would also have to believe that our laws have no effect on crime rate.Do you really believe that? Did you parents ever wash your mouth out with soap for swearing? Did it make you think twice about dropping the f bomb in front of them? Why? Did the soap make you get over it? -Gary Julian Hale said the following on 8/26/2005 6:51 PM: No I don't think that the drug laws have a significant effect on consumption. I know quite a few people who indulge in a variety of drugs on a regular basis, regardless of the laws. I also know of high school students getting high on OTC drugs, which is certainly worse than smoking a little weed, and that is a direct negative result of current drug laws. Assuming for a moment that you are correct, and 2x as many people start smoking MJ, who gives a shit? The effects are not particularly different than drinking alcohol, except that one is a lot less prone to go out and get into trouble. The ultimate question, however, is what business is it of yours if your neighbor smokes pot? In what way does it harm you? Julian PS: It's not fear of reprisal, it's just that they got over it. Almost every single person I know has smoked weed at some point in their lives. Some give it up, some don't. Some use it responsibly, some don't. None of them seem particularly hurt by it. At 11:25 PM 8/25/2005, you wrote: I am none of the below and thanks for making it about me. I always enjoy ad hominem attacks, it is a sign of a weak position. The last thing I believe is that the government is always right, you could not be further from the truth. I am also not the product of any warped era (whatever that is).I am also not an addict, never have been. I will ask you the same thing, you don't think punishment does not deter drug use? That is just plain silly. If mary jane were legal and sold at the local drug store there would be at least 2x as many people smoking it. You think some of those who are not smoking might be abstaining because of fear of reprisals? LOL -Gary
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- Original Message - From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 4:08 AM Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices you really believe that? Did you parents ever wash your mouth out with soap for swearing? Did it make you think twice about dropping the f bomb in front of them? Why? Did the soap make you get over it? It was best to get your mouth washed out after the trip to the woodshed, so they would have to do that only once. Chuck
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Lol, and he wonders why I posted the ABCD list of trying to pin down where he's coming from. Face it Gary you are the only one here still arguing this and what you are arguing I know not short of trying to prove that if it was legal 2x as many would smoke it and punishment deters usage. TO which we have responded with who cares and no it doesn't. So what is your point of argument then? For the record I had many of these done to me as a kid it made me MORE rebellious as is the norm for non-sheep who do what they feel is right (i.e. by what real definition swearing wrong?) in spite of being punished for it. So the censors can go FRACK them selves all the FRELLING day, words are different but I am still meaning FUCK! Come wash my mouth out! Can we now discuss the meaning of life or are there any good hardware topics to talk about? Gary Udstrand wrote: Are you reading the same thread? When you crawl down off of your high horse you can explain to me where I say I care how many people are smoking pot? My statement was in the context that PUNISHMENT DETERS USAGE. You are entitled to your opinion but assuming so you would also have to believe that our laws have no effect on crime rate.Do you really believe that? Did you parents ever wash your mouth out with soap for swearing? Did it make you think twice about dropping the f bomb in front of them? Why? Did the soap make you get over it? -Gary Julian Hale said the following on 8/26/2005 6:51 PM: No I don't think that the drug laws have a significant effect on consumption. I know quite a few people who indulge in a variety of drugs on a regular basis, regardless of the laws. I also know of high school students getting high on OTC drugs, which is certainly worse than smoking a little weed, and that is a direct negative result of current drug laws. Assuming for a moment that you are correct, and 2x as many people start smoking MJ, who gives a shit? The effects are not particularly different than drinking alcohol, except that one is a lot less prone to go out and get into trouble. The ultimate question, however, is what business is it of yours if your neighbor smokes pot? In what way does it harm you? Julian PS: It's not fear of reprisal, it's just that they got over it. Almost every single person I know has smoked weed at some point in their lives. Some give it up, some don't. Some use it responsibly, some don't. None of them seem particularly hurt by it. At 11:25 PM 8/25/2005, you wrote: I am none of the below and thanks for making it about me. I always enjoy ad hominem attacks, it is a sign of a weak position. The last thing I believe is that the government is always right, you could not be further from the truth. I am also not the product of any warped era (whatever that is).I am also not an addict, never have been. I will ask you the same thing, you don't think punishment does not deter drug use? That is just plain silly. If mary jane were legal and sold at the local drug store there would be at least 2x as many people smoking it. You think some of those who are not smoking might be abstaining because of fear of reprisals? LOL -Gary
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LOL!! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] you really believe that? Did you parents ever wash your mouth out with soap for swearing? Did it make you think twice about dropping the f bomb in front of them? Why? Did the soap make you get over it? It was best to get your mouth washed out after the trip to the woodshed, so they would have to do that only once.
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Tell that to the thousands of small boys raped by sexually frustrated and sex-obsessed Catholic priests! Gary Udstrand wrote: Big difference, without food and water you die. Without sex you become a nerd. LOL -Gary Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 12:25 PM: The time following puberty is the time period when a person is the horniest in their lives! All part of God's plan to provide for our reproduction. Deny a person food and see how warped their behavior becomes. Take away someones water and all they'll think about is getting something to drink. That's why we need to provide our children with condoms so they can get the sex they crave and help prevent disease and unwanted pregnancy. Common sense my friend. FORC5 wrote: not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for giving kids condoms. a society needs standards to live by for the live of me I can not figure out why someone would consume a product that they have NO FUCKING IDEA what kind of standards where used in manufacture. These same ppl probably want only organic food. go figure. fp At 07:40 AM 8/25/2005, Thane Sherrington Poked the stick with: At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social ills? All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge police budgets and drugs on the streets. If they can get drugs into prisons (supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them outside prisons. T -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Sometimes, the only solution is to find a new problem. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005
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State-assisted suicide? Sounds like my kind of place to live! Hayes Elkins wrote: From: Thane Sherrington [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 16:48:53 -0300 At 04:11 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: Several. China is a lot better off now, isn't it? I'm not sure. Haven't been there, but I've heard their economy is doing alright. Plus China isn't really a modern, civilized country, so it's hard to compare to the US or Canada. The Netherlands seems to be doing ok. And that's one, not several. Please give me some concrete examples of harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term. Saudi Arabia - caught with drugs? Bye bye head. It's also a GREAT place to live.
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I am aware of the history, I just think the situations are very different regardless of what you might believe. Think about it, the drugs are legal do you think all the illegal fields will be plowed under? Do you think they will stop growing their crop? Why would they? -Gary Julian Hale said the following on 8/25/2005 8:14 PM: Crack open a history book. What happened after the end of prohibition is what makes us think that ending drug/MJ prohibition will make them walk away. The is no difference between the two. However, excessively high taxation will create a black market. Julian At 12:24 PM 8/25/2005, you wrote: That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the legalizing drugs crowd. What in God's name makes you think that organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires? Tax the drugs?? LOL. -Gary
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Like all the other drugs from Pharmaceutical companies? Now, that is a good one. Add to it all the taxes that are sure to be imposed and all of the legal obligation that comes from being part of the delivery chain. Low prices are a dream. BTW, do you always find it necessary to be so condescending? -Gary Julian Hale said the following on 8/25/2005 8:17 PM: There was also a thriving, legal business for MJ, opiates, cocaine, etc. before prohibition. Again, no difference at all. Legal drugs will come from, and this may shock you, pharmaceutical companies... since there is no patent, prices will be low. Julian At 12:52 PM 8/25/2005, you wrote: Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol prior to prohibition. So we make drugs legal, where are they going to come from? -Gary
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At 05:04 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: Yes. Ok, now I know you're just playing with us. Good one. T
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- Original Message - From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 2:25 AM Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices drug use? That is just plain silly. If mary jane were legal and sold at the local drug store there would be at least 2x as many people smoking it. You think some of those who are not smoking might be abstaining because of fear of reprisals? LOL For conversation sake, smoking can refer to tobacco, also, along with the use of all illegal drugs. For conversation sake, reprisals can refer to social and legal consequences. Study any social group that disassociates those who choose to smoke any addictive or harmful substance or uses illegal drugs for recreational purposes. Although those on the inside of the group may misrepresent the percentage of members who violate the rules, a substantial number are violators. The point here is, although there are violators, their numbers are few, in relation to the number of those in a group who does not have these restrictions. Yes, some of those who are not smoking might be abstaining because of fear or reprisals not just legal, but social, also. If I am in the presence of a drug user who does not smoke their drug, I can be clean when I leave. If I am around smokers I am uncomfortable, breathing that poison. When I leave I discover my clothes are filled with smoke residue because they stink. Smokers have no concern for the people around them if they smoke in their presence. I have cut off friendships because of this. It is sad to be so addicted to a substance that you must use it in their presence and lose them as a friend. Friends say, Can't you respect my rights to smoke? Best reply, If and only if you can figure out a way to do it where I do not smell an offensive odor and leave with my clothes full of the substance. Some have chosen to abstain from smoking around me even in their own home. Most have let their habit destroy our friendship. Other non smokers do not have to take such a harsh stand. It is your choice to live with it and keep your friends. Chuck
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There's a difference between getting arrested for smoking something on the front porch versus getting arrested for breaking down a door. On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many of those in jail for drugs are helpless Grandma's and teenagers? Simple question, do the drug laws deter usage? What else are they supposed to do? I suppose we should eliminate laws against theft too since they would also fail your definition of success. -Gary j m g said the following on 8/25/2005 3:08 PM: I don't think locking up grandma and idiot teenagers is the mark of a successful policy. On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course it is up to you to define successful? -Gary Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 3:07 PM: At 04:56 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: Your problem is you have failed to define working. If by working you mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working. If you are defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then you are creating nothing more than a canard. I think working is pretty easy to define: A free society where people take responsibility for their actions, and tax dollars aren't wasted on things that are completely unsuccessful. T -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
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See what foamy has to say: http://www.illwillpress.com/drugs.html a little humor, Al
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Ah, the ever crazy Foamy's rants! This guy is a comedy genius but should of had Pilz-E in on that one also. LOL Al wrote: See what foamy has to say: http://www.illwillpress.com/drugs.html a little humor, Al
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warpmedia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah, the ever crazy Foamy's rants! This guy is a comedy genius but should of had Pilz-E in on that one also. LOL Hooked on cream cheese :) Al
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Me? I thought you were the condescending one. Anyway, go to walmart, costco, etc. and look at the price of generic drugs. You can get 200 generic excedrine for $4. 400 generic aleve for ~$8. Generic claritin is similarly priced. It's the drugs on patent that are ridiculously priced. So again, regardless of whatever mythical difference you may try to cook up, alcohol prohibition and drug prohibition are exactly the same. Ending said prohibition will have the same results as it did the last time. Julian At 11:15 PM 8/25/2005, you wrote: Like all the other drugs from Pharmaceutical companies? Now, that is a good one. Add to it all the taxes that are sure to be imposed and all of the legal obligation that comes from being part of the delivery chain. Low prices are a dream. BTW, do you always find it necessary to be so condescending? -Gary
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No I don't think that the drug laws have a significant effect on consumption. I know quite a few people who indulge in a variety of drugs on a regular basis, regardless of the laws. I also know of high school students getting high on OTC drugs, which is certainly worse than smoking a little weed, and that is a direct negative result of current drug laws. Assuming for a moment that you are correct, and 2x as many people start smoking MJ, who gives a shit? The effects are not particularly different than drinking alcohol, except that one is a lot less prone to go out and get into trouble. The ultimate question, however, is what business is it of yours if your neighbor smokes pot? In what way does it harm you? Julian PS: It's not fear of reprisal, it's just that they got over it. Almost every single person I know has smoked weed at some point in their lives. Some give it up, some don't. Some use it responsibly, some don't. None of them seem particularly hurt by it. At 11:25 PM 8/25/2005, you wrote: I am none of the below and thanks for making it about me. I always enjoy ad hominem attacks, it is a sign of a weak position. The last thing I believe is that the government is always right, you could not be further from the truth. I am also not the product of any warped era (whatever that is).I am also not an addict, never have been. I will ask you the same thing, you don't think punishment does not deter drug use? That is just plain silly. If mary jane were legal and sold at the local drug store there would be at least 2x as many people smoking it. You think some of those who are not smoking might be abstaining because of fear of reprisals? LOL -Gary
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BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love British Columbia! g What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned Prohibition doesn't work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of criminalization! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! Addictive behavior is associated with self-esteem and that's where our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government! warpmedia wrote: Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these days! LOL Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use. FORC5 wrote: Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane to dynamite. Popular Mechanics, 1938 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the buds to Canada. g gibney wrote: Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.
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What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? -Gary Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM: BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love British Columbia! g What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned Prohibition doesn't work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of criminalization! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! Addictive behavior is associated with self-esteem and that's where our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government! warpmedia wrote: Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these days! LOL Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use. FORC5 wrote: Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane to dynamite. Popular Mechanics, 1938 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the buds to Canada. g gibney wrote: Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.
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A few minor changes I'd make. First, I'm assuming the drugs are actually very cheap to make. So I say tax them very highly and they should still be cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black market, These taxes are what should be used to pay for all the regulation and treatment efforts. Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational drugs are and second allowing discrimination against people who use them. This allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the drugs. I do believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your medical bills to go up and keep you from being as good of an employee from how it effects your mind so its not fair for the many who don't use the drugs. Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research should never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a recreational drug. A chemical is a chemical and they all have side effects, you just need to balance the good parts and the bad. Eli - Original Message - http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization arguement. Sounds pretty good to me... On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals. From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? -Gary Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM: BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love British Columbia! g What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned Prohibition doesn't work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of criminalization! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! Addictive behavior is associated with self-esteem and that's where our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government! warpmedia wrote: Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these days! LOL Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use. FORC5 wrote: Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane to dynamite. Popular Mechanics, 1938 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the buds to Canada. g gibney wrote: Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
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At 12:35 PM 25/08/2005, FORC5 wrote: not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for giving kids condoms. a society needs standards to live by So better to keep using an idea that doesn't work can costs a fortune rather than trying something else? Makes no sense to me. T
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Thane Sherrington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 12:35 PM 25/08/2005, FORC5 wrote: not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for giving kids condoms. a society needs standards to live by So better to keep using an idea that doesn't work can costs a fortune rather than trying something else? Makes no sense to me. And those standards that the society lives by change and evolve with time. Al
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Decriminalization doesn't mean that society can't look at drug use as a bad thing. So I don't see how societies standards are weakening. In fact decriminalization could strengthen them, what happens to those who think drugs are bad but want prisons to be used for real criminals? It would allow more people to become united against abusing drugs. Eli - Original Message - not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for giving kids condoms. a society needs standards to live by for the live of me I can not figure out why someone would consume a product that they have NO FUCKING IDEA what kind of standards where used in manufacture. These same ppl probably want only organic food. go figure. fp
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Standards? What the hell does that mean? We got freaks around the world that think we are criminals for not complying with their religious standards and want to KILL US for it. Some standards just don't make sense when examined, many are arbitrary.We should be giving kids (and 3rd world countries) condoms because we know people are going to screw, period. As to standards, many people eat freshly grown things from their garden all the time don't drop dead. You get into refined things and even with standards you have problems. Aspartame, Sucralose, saccharin, acesulfame, MSG... We do it everyday when we eat something with the generic catch all artificial or natural ingredients print on the label. Hell there's plenty we're allowed to consume that is KNOW to be bad, just as long as it's not enough to kill us outright. The biggest drug problem these days is ICE or crystal meth made from cold pills and second a bumper crop from our buddies in Afghanistan. Neither should be tolerated and those found using should be helped medically, not jailed. Read any medical text listing the know drugs used and you'll find alcohol #1 bad drug, pot the last thing in the list. Decriminalize pot and be on the look out for people ABUSING not simply using the drug, then put our drug war money to proper use helping to heal rather than punish. FORC5 wrote: not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for giving kids condoms. a society needs standards to live by for the live of me I can not figure out why someone would consume a product that they have NO FUCKING IDEA what kind of standards where used in manufacture. These same ppl probably want only organic food. go figure. fp At 07:40 AM 8/25/2005, Thane Sherrington Poked the stick with: At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social ills? All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge police budgets and drugs on the streets. If they can get drugs into prisons (supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them outside prisons. T -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Sometimes, the only solution is to find a new problem.
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The biggest drug problem these days is ICE or crystal meth made from cold pills and second a bumper crop from our buddies in Afghanistan. Neither should be tolerated and those found using should be helped medically, not jailed. Do you want your taxes raised in order to pay for the repetitive medical treatment of those who abuse themselves willfully? I don't. I don't see any free alcohol abuse treatment centers either. Remember, those in jail for drug abuse are but the tip of the iceberg. People need to take ownership of their own problems and learn self control. Don't expect kid-glove treatment on my dime. Gary VanderMolen
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But how many billions are spent on enforcement that doesn't get anywhere. Why even bother busting kids with a cigarette's worth of pot? Your taxes are already going to the 'war on drugs' and that money isn't being wisely spent. On 8/25/05, Gary VanderMolen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The biggest drug problem these days is ICE or crystal meth made from cold pills and second a bumper crop from our buddies in Afghanistan. Neither should be tolerated and those found using should be helped medically, not jailed. Do you want your taxes raised in order to pay for the repetitive medical treatment of those who abuse themselves willfully? I don't. I don't see any free alcohol abuse treatment centers either. Remember, those in jail for drug abuse are but the tip of the iceberg. People need to take ownership of their own problems and learn self control. Don't expect kid-glove treatment on my dime. Gary VanderMolen -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
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At 11:42 AM 8/25/2005, Thane Sherrington typed: At 12:35 PM 25/08/2005, FORC5 wrote: not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for giving kids condoms. a society needs standards to live by So better to keep using an idea that doesn't work can costs a fortune rather than trying something else? Makes no sense to me. Ah but why throw out the baby with the bath water? The solutions are probably somewhere in between. As for not trying something else all one has to do is look at other societies. Either way tons of money is being spent with minimal successful results. There will always be some kids that have a tough time with reality when they leave the comfort of home or the hell of it. There always will be people breaking relationships with others some of those others resorting to drugs or booze for an easy fix but as soon as they realize there is no easy fix the better off they will be. Then there will be some that the medical doctors screw with like our neighbors across the street. She was put on Oxycontin after minor surgery which is a no no because of it's addictive qualities. She didn't feel that she could get off it because she had a healthy inheritance she made the jump to H. Her husband was no wizard joined in. Eventually she wound up at the hospital with gross sores all over not knowing where her kids were. The courts took the situation under consideration sent him to the joint for a year her to a halfway house for 6 mo the kids went to live with her mother in the meantime. They are all home together again after learning a tough lesson but it shows that if people actually care even the present system can work. If that had happened to me my wife kids at that age my folks would've told me that I was on our own we would've lost the house probably the kids forever. All the blame can't go on the law the courts. Society I believe is just starting to realize that families need to stay together but with a few exceptions of course. We've seen in this country within families mostly that neither super strict ethics nor a complete break with ethics work. Can't we all just get along? ;-) --+-- Wayne D. Johnson Ashland, OH, USA 44805 http://www.wavijo.com
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Dr. Phil's theme for the day happens to be drug and alcohol abuse and the effects on our loved ones. 3pm Central time. Thane Sherrington wrote: At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social ills? All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge police budgets and drugs on the streets. If they can get drugs into prisons (supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them outside prisons. T
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The time following puberty is the time period when a person is the horniest in their lives! All part of God's plan to provide for our reproduction. Deny a person food and see how warped their behavior becomes. Take away someones water and all they'll think about is getting something to drink. That's why we need to provide our children with condoms so they can get the sex they crave and help prevent disease and unwanted pregnancy. Common sense my friend. FORC5 wrote: not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for giving kids condoms. a society needs standards to live by for the live of me I can not figure out why someone would consume a product that they have NO FUCKING IDEA what kind of standards where used in manufacture. These same ppl probably want only organic food. go figure. fp At 07:40 AM 8/25/2005, Thane Sherrington Poked the stick with: At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social ills? All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge police budgets and drugs on the streets. If they can get drugs into prisons (supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them outside prisons. T -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Sometimes, the only solution is to find a new problem. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005
RE: Re: [H] Gas prices
Having drugs gives agents and the government to subsidize prisons, seize property (Ferrari's, Large Mansions) etc. I don't think we should make them legal any time soon. Any one wants to buy a Ferrari Testarosa for $5,000? 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Eli Allen Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:24 AM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices A few minor changes I'd make. First, I'm assuming the drugs are actually very cheap to make. So I say tax them very highly and they should still be cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black market, These taxes are what should be used to pay for all the regulation and treatment efforts. Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational drugs are and second allowing discrimination against people who use them. This allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the drugs. I do believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your medical bills to go up and keep you from being as good of an employee from how it effects your mind so its not fair for the many who don't use the drugs. Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research should never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a recreational drug. A chemical is a chemical and they all have side effects, you just need to balance the good parts and the bad. Eli - Original Message - http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization arguement. Sounds pretty good to me... On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals. From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? -Gary Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM: BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love British Columbia! g What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned Prohibition doesn't work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of criminalization! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! Addictive behavior is associated with self-esteem and that's where our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government! warpmedia wrote: Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these days! LOL Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use. FORC5 wrote: Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane to dynamite. Popular Mechanics, 1938 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the buds to Canada. g gibney wrote: Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
RE: [H] Gas prices
I am not sure if Puberty is when people are the horniest. Perhaps it has to do with access, supply and demand. 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stan Zaske Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:26 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices The time following puberty is the time period when a person is the horniest in their lives! All part of God's plan to provide for our reproduction. Deny a person food and see how warped their behavior becomes. Take away someones water and all they'll think about is getting something to drink. That's why we need to provide our children with condoms so they can get the sex they crave and help prevent disease and unwanted pregnancy. Common sense my friend. FORC5 wrote: not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for giving kids condoms. a society needs standards to live by for the live of me I can not figure out why someone would consume a product that they have NO FUCKING IDEA what kind of standards where used in manufacture. These same ppl probably want only organic food. go figure. fp At 07:40 AM 8/25/2005, Thane Sherrington Poked the stick with: At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social ills? All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge police budgets and drugs on the streets. If they can get drugs into prisons (supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them outside prisons. T -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Sometimes, the only solution is to find a new problem. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005
Re: [H] Gas prices
Perhaps you've forgotten your raging hormones my friend. In the natural world people saw animals copulating all the time and that was all it took to prime the pump. But just because we insulate ourselves from the natural world doesn't mean we aren't a part of it and the drive to reproduce. Look at all the sex crime in this country and tell me it doesn't have a great deal to do with our suppression of our natural urges. Go on a 4 day fast with nothing but water and see how it affects your mind. Be sure to have others observing you to give you feedback on the things you do that in your altered state of mind you can't see. Peace 007 wrote: I am not sure if Puberty is when people are the horniest. Perhaps it has to do with access, supply and demand. 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stan Zaske Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:26 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices The time following puberty is the time period when a person is the horniest in their lives! All part of God's plan to provide for our reproduction. Deny a person food and see how warped their behavior becomes. Take away someones water and all they'll think about is getting something to drink. That's why we need to provide our children with condoms so they can get the sex they crave and help prevent disease and unwanted pregnancy. Common sense my friend. FORC5 wrote: not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for giving kids condoms. a society needs standards to live by for the live of me I can not figure out why someone would consume a product that they have NO FUCKING IDEA what kind of standards where used in manufacture. These same ppl probably want only organic food. go figure. fp At 07:40 AM 8/25/2005, Thane Sherrington Poked the stick with: At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social ills? All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge police budgets and drugs on the streets. If they can get drugs into prisons (supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them outside prisons. T -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Sometimes, the only solution is to find a new problem. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005
RE: [H] Gas prices
At 01:29 PM 8/25/2005, 007 typed: I am not sure if Puberty is when people are the horniest. Perhaps it has to do with access, supply and demand. Medical fact that women don't mature sexually until their mid 30's while males it's 19-21 at that age many females are trying to figure out how they can get over on the horny guys to get what they want. Heck, some of them never stop trying to get over on us poor guys. lol With that argument about condoms why don't we just give the kids at 13 the house, car, boat, motorcycle whatever else you value see how long it'll be before they trash either it or themselves. You say 13 is too young? There was a gal in my HS class that had a baby at 13 by a known BF. At that age if we allow them to act whenever the impulse hits them I doubt many of them will remember to use a condom. They need to learn control sometime. --+-- Wayne D. Johnson Ashland, OH, USA 44805 http://www.wavijo.com
Re: [H] Gas prices
So we should all just give in to our impulses and do what the hell we want? I was plenty horny by age 13, which doesn't mean I was emotionally ready, or financially capable of the consequences of a broken/slipped condom. Gary VanderMolen - Original Message - From: Stan Zaske [EMAIL PROTECTED] The time following puberty is the time period when a person is the horniest in their lives! All part of God's plan to provide for our reproduction. Deny a person food and see how warped their behavior becomes. Take away someones water and all they'll think about is getting something to drink. That's why we need to provide our children with condoms so they can get the sex they crave and help prevent disease and unwanted pregnancy. Common sense my friend.
Re: [H] Gas prices
Curing cancer. From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:31:48 -0500 What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? -Gary
Re: [H] Gas prices
From: Gary VanderMolen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:37:44 -0700 Do you want your taxes raised in order to pay for the repetitive medical treatment of those who abuse themselves willfully? I don't. I don't see any free alcohol abuse treatment centers either. http://www.aa.org Remember, those in jail for drug abuse are but the tip of the iceberg. People need to take ownership of their own problems and learn self control. Don't expect kid-glove treatment on my dime. Gary VanderMolen Reminder to all: Arguing the illegality of marijuana while alcohol and tainted tobacco products remain legal is fundamentally stupid. Liberty comes with consequences. Drug use comes with consequences. Legalizing a weed does not absolve you from punishment if you commit a crime. The US is perhaps the freest nation on earth with exception to its asinine drug laws. Can you believe the audacity of other countries that claim they are free yet they can imprison people for controversial speech? And I'm not talking about yelling fire in a movie theater. The point being is that in order for the US to truly be a champion of protecting fundamental human liberties in wake of a tyrannical majority, drug laws need to be drastically re-examined. For those who want to waste their life in drugs, I say let them. Just like we allow people to become alcoholics, smokers, or gamblers. And make it a double edged sword so that our taxes do not pay for the ills that come with said vices.
Re: [H] Gas prices
Several. China is a lot better off now, isn't it? -Gary Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 9:40 AM: At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social ills? All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge police budgets and drugs on the streets. If they can get drugs into prisons (supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them outside prisons. T
Re: [H] Gas prices
You are making a HUGE assumption, that being that enforcement doesn't do anything. Most believe that the enforcement is working the way it should. It is a deterrent and as such is doing its job. -Gary j m g said the following on 8/25/2005 11:45 AM: But how many billions are spent on enforcement that doesn't get anywhere. Why even bother busting kids with a cigarette's worth of pot? Your taxes are already going to the 'war on drugs' and that money isn't being wisely spent. On 8/25/05, Gary VanderMolen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The biggest drug problem these days is ICE or crystal meth made from cold pills and second a bumper crop from our buddies in Afghanistan. Neither should be tolerated and those found using should be helped medically, not jailed. Do you want your taxes raised in order to pay for the repetitive medical treatment of those who abuse themselves willfully? I don't. I don't see any free alcohol abuse treatment centers either. Remember, those in jail for drug abuse are but the tip of the iceberg. People need to take ownership of their own problems and learn self control. Don't expect kid-glove treatment on my dime. Gary VanderMolen
Re: [H] Gas prices
Big difference, without food and water you die. Without sex you become a nerd. LOL -Gary Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 12:25 PM: The time following puberty is the time period when a person is the horniest in their lives! All part of God's plan to provide for our reproduction. Deny a person food and see how warped their behavior becomes. Take away someones water and all they'll think about is getting something to drink. That's why we need to provide our children with condoms so they can get the sex they crave and help prevent disease and unwanted pregnancy. Common sense my friend. FORC5 wrote: not a good reason to make these products legal. same argument for giving kids condoms. a society needs standards to live by for the live of me I can not figure out why someone would consume a product that they have NO FUCKING IDEA what kind of standards where used in manufacture. These same ppl probably want only organic food. go figure. fp At 07:40 AM 8/25/2005, Thane Sherrington Poked the stick with: At 11:31 AM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? Can you name one example where making it illegal solved any social ills? All anti-drug laws have gotten the US and Canada are huge police budgets and drugs on the streets. If they can get drugs into prisons (supposedly secure facilities) then we can't stop them outside prisons. T -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- Sometimes, the only solution is to find a new problem. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 8/24/2005
Re: [H] Gas prices
Wow, you really need to do some reading. -Gary Ben Ruset said the following on 8/25/2005 9:41 AM: Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals. From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? -Gary Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM: BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love British Columbia! g What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned Prohibition doesn't work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of criminalization! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! Addictive behavior is associated with self-esteem and that's where our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government! warpmedia wrote: Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these days! LOL Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use. FORC5 wrote: Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane to dynamite. Popular Mechanics, 1938 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the buds to Canada. g gibney wrote: Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.
Re: [H] Gas prices
That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the legalizing drugs crowd. What in God's name makes you think that organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires? Tax the drugs?? LOL. -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 10:24 AM: A few minor changes I'd make. First, I'm assuming the drugs are actually very cheap to make. So I say tax them very highly and they should still be cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black market, These taxes are what should be used to pay for all the regulation and treatment efforts. Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational drugs are and second allowing discrimination against people who use them. This allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the drugs. I do believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your medical bills to go up and keep you from being as good of an employee from how it effects your mind so its not fair for the many who don't use the drugs. Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research should never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a recreational drug. A chemical is a chemical and they all have side effects, you just need to balance the good parts and the bad. Eli - Original Message - http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization arguement. Sounds pretty good to me... On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals. From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? -Gary Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM: BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love British Columbia! g What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned Prohibition doesn't work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of criminalization! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! Addictive behavior is associated with self-esteem and that's where our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government! warpmedia wrote: Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these days! LOL Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use. FORC5 wrote: Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane to dynamite. Popular Mechanics, 1938 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the buds to Canada. g gibney wrote: Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
Re: [H] Gas prices
From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:18:32 -0500 Big difference, without food and water you die. Without sex you become a nerd. LOL -Gary Or a buttfucking pedophile priest. (remembering your prior defense of priesthood's celibacy that was introduced solely to protect the church's dwindling riches centuries ago)
Re: [H] Gas prices
Are we at the 3-day rule yet for this topic? - Original Message - From: Hayes Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:18:32 -0500 Big difference, without food and water you die. Without sex you become a nerd. LOL -Gary Or a buttfucking pedophile priest. (remembering your prior defense of priesthood's celibacy that was introduced solely to protect the church's dwindling riches centuries ago)
Re: [H] Gas prices
What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of the 30's? From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:24:10 -0500 That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the legalizing drugs crowd. What in God's name makes you think that organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires? Tax the drugs?? LOL. -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 10:24 AM: A few minor changes I'd make. First, I'm assuming the drugs are actually very cheap to make. So I say tax them very highly and they should still be cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black market, These taxes are what should be used to pay for all the regulation and treatment efforts. Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational drugs are and second allowing discrimination against people who use them. This allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the drugs. I do believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your medical bills to go up and keep you from being as good of an employee from how it effects your mind so its not fair for the many who don't use the drugs. Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research should never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a recreational drug. A chemical is a chemical and they all have side effects, you just need to balance the good parts and the bad. Eli - Original Message - http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization arguement. Sounds pretty good to me... On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals. From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? -Gary Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM: BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love British Columbia! g What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned Prohibition doesn't work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of criminalization! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! Addictive behavior is associated with self-esteem and that's where our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government! warpmedia wrote: Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these days! LOL Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use. FORC5 wrote: Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane to dynamite. Popular Mechanics, 1938 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the buds to Canada. g gibney wrote: Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
Re: [H] Gas prices
If I can walk into walgreens and there sitting right next to the marlboro's...they're not going to have a say in the matter. On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the legalizing drugs crowd. What in God's name makes you think that organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires? Tax the drugs?? LOL. -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 10:24 AM: A few minor changes I'd make. First, I'm assuming the drugs are actually very cheap to make. So I say tax them very highly and they should still be cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black market, These taxes are what should be used to pay for all the regulation and treatment efforts. Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational drugs are and second allowing discrimination against people who use them. This allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the drugs. I do believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your medical bills to go up and keep you from being as good of an employee from how it effects your mind so its not fair for the many who don't use the drugs. Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research should never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a recreational drug. A chemical is a chemical and they all have side effects, you just need to balance the good parts and the bad. Eli - Original Message - http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization arguement. Sounds pretty good to me... On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals. From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? -Gary Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM: BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love British Columbia! g What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned Prohibition doesn't work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of criminalization! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! Addictive behavior is associated with self-esteem and that's where our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government! warpmedia wrote: Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these days! LOL Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use. FORC5 wrote: Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane to dynamite. Popular Mechanics, 1938 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the buds to Canada. g gibney wrote: Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918] -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
Re: [H] Gas prices
At 04:11 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: Several. China is a lot better off now, isn't it? I'm not sure. Haven't been there, but I've heard their economy is doing alright. Plus China isn't really a modern, civilized country, so it's hard to compare to the US or Canada. The Netherlands seems to be doing ok. And that's one, not several. Please give me some concrete examples of harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term. T
Re: [H] Gas prices
At 04:37 PM 25/08/2005, j m g wrote: If I can walk into walgreens and there sitting right next to the marlboro's...they're not going to have a say in the matter. Yup. And that's why legalizing it works so well. The same for prostitution, btw. T
Re: [H] Gas prices
From: Thane Sherrington [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 16:48:53 -0300 At 04:11 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: Several. China is a lot better off now, isn't it? I'm not sure. Haven't been there, but I've heard their economy is doing alright. Plus China isn't really a modern, civilized country, so it's hard to compare to the US or Canada. The Netherlands seems to be doing ok. And that's one, not several. Please give me some concrete examples of harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term. Saudi Arabia - caught with drugs? Bye bye head. It's also a GREAT place to live.
Re: [H] Gas prices
Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol prior to prohibition. So we make drugs legal, where are they going to come from? -Gary Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 2:30 PM: What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of the 30's? From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:24:10 -0500 That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the legalizing drugs crowd. What in God's name makes you think that organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires? Tax the drugs?? LOL. -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 10:24 AM: A few minor changes I'd make. First, I'm assuming the drugs are actually very cheap to make. So I say tax them very highly and they should still be cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black market, These taxes are what should be used to pay for all the regulation and treatment efforts. Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational drugs are and second allowing discrimination against people who use them. This allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the drugs. I do believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your medical bills to go up and keep you from being as good of an employee from how it effects your mind so its not fair for the many who don't use the drugs. Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research should never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a recreational drug. A chemical is a chemical and they all have side effects, you just need to balance the good parts and the bad. Eli - Original Message - http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization arguement. Sounds pretty good to me... On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals. From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? -Gary Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM: BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love British Columbia! g What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned Prohibition doesn't work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of criminalization! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! Addictive behavior is associated with self-esteem and that's where our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government! warpmedia wrote: Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these days! LOL Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use. FORC5 wrote: Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane to dynamite. Popular Mechanics, 1938 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the buds to Canada. g gibney wrote: Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
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At 04:44 PM 25/08/2005, Hayes Elkins wrote: And that's one, not several. Please give me some concrete examples of harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term. Saudi Arabia - caught with drugs? Bye bye head. It's also a GREAT place to live. I think that proves my point. Harsh drug laws just don't work. Unless you feel that leaving in an oppressive regime with no drugs or alcohol is working. T
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I have no idea what you are talking about Hayes but leave it to you to come up with shit like this. It was meant as a joke. You are some piece of work. -Gary Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 2:26 PM: From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:18:32 -0500 Big difference, without food and water you die. Without sex you become a nerd. LOL -Gary Or a buttfucking pedophile priest. (remembering your prior defense of priesthood's celibacy that was introduced solely to protect the church's dwindling riches centuries ago)
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USA and Canada. -Gary Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 2:48 PM: At 04:11 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: Several. China is a lot better off now, isn't it? I'm not sure. Haven't been there, but I've heard their economy is doing alright. Plus China isn't really a modern, civilized country, so it's hard to compare to the US or Canada. The Netherlands seems to be doing ok. And that's one, not several. Please give me some concrete examples of harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term. T
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And where is Walgreens supposed to get the drugs? -Gary j m g said the following on 8/25/2005 2:37 PM: If I can walk into walgreens and there sitting right next to the marlboro's...they're not going to have a say in the matter. On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the legalizing drugs crowd. What in God's name makes you think that organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires? Tax the drugs?? LOL. -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 10:24 AM: A few minor changes I'd make. First, I'm assuming the drugs are actually very cheap to make. So I say tax them very highly and they should still be cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black market, These taxes are what should be used to pay for all the regulation and treatment efforts. Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational drugs are and second allowing discrimination against people who use them. This allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the drugs. I do believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your medical bills to go up and keep you from being as good of an employee from how it effects your mind so its not fair for the many who don't use the drugs. Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research should never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a recreational drug. A chemical is a chemical and they all have side effects, you just need to balance the good parts and the bad. Eli - Original Message - http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization arguement. Sounds pretty good to me... On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals. From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? -Gary Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM: BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love British Columbia! g What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned Prohibition doesn't work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of criminalization! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! Addictive behavior is associated with self-esteem and that's where our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government! warpmedia wrote: Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these days! LOL Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use. FORC5 wrote: Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane to dynamite. Popular Mechanics, 1938 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the buds to Canada. g gibney wrote: Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
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Your problem is you have failed to define working. If by working you mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working. If you are defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then you are creating nothing more than a canard. -Gary Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 2:58 PM: At 04:44 PM 25/08/2005, Hayes Elkins wrote: And that's one, not several. Please give me some concrete examples of harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term. Saudi Arabia - caught with drugs? Bye bye head. It's also a GREAT place to live. I think that proves my point. Harsh drug laws just don't work. Unless you feel that leaving in an oppressive regime with no drugs or alcohol is working. T
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At 04:54 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: USA and Canada. So you feel we are winning the drug war? T
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the same places stores get their goods from now, growers, manufacturers, local and international, if it was legal and had a profit margin and some demand it wouldn't be at Walmart? On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And where is Walgreens supposed to get the drugs? -Gary j m g said the following on 8/25/2005 2:37 PM: If I can walk into walgreens and there sitting right next to the marlboro's...they're not going to have a say in the matter. On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the legalizing drugs crowd. What in God's name makes you think that organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires? Tax the drugs?? LOL. -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 10:24 AM: A few minor changes I'd make. First, I'm assuming the drugs are actually very cheap to make. So I say tax them very highly and they should still be cheaper then drugs are now and so prevent a black market, These taxes are what should be used to pay for all the regulation and treatment efforts. Second, there needs to be a law that first defines what recreational drugs are and second allowing discrimination against people who use them. This allows for an additional incentive to keep people off the drugs. I do believe the drugs do bad things to you to can cause your medical bills to go up and keep you from being as good of an employee from how it effects your mind so its not fair for the many who don't use the drugs. Third, and probably the measure to enact first, medical research should never be limited arbitrarily because a chemical is considered a recreational drug. A chemical is a chemical and they all have side effects, you just need to balance the good parts and the bad. Eli - Original Message - http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/7/ - Decriminalization arguement. Sounds pretty good to me... On 8/25/05, Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Freed up space in prisons better suited to real criminals. From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu Aug 25 09:31:48 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices What happened in China when they legalized drugs? What about Needle park in Zurich? Can you cite one example where the legalization of drugs solved any social ills? -Gary Stan Zaske said the following on 8/25/2005 3:04 AM: BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love British Columbia! g What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned Prohibition doesn't work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of criminalization! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! Addictive behavior is associated with self-esteem and that's where our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government! warpmedia wrote: Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these days! LOL Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use. FORC5 wrote: Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane to dynamite. Popular Mechanics, 1938 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the buds to Canada. g gibney wrote: Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918] -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
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At 04:56 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: Your problem is you have failed to define working. If by working you mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working. If you are defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then you are creating nothing more than a canard. I think working is pretty easy to define: A free society where people take responsibility for their actions, and tax dollars aren't wasted on things that are completely unsuccessful. T
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Yes. -Gary Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 3:06 PM: At 04:54 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: USA and Canada. So you feel we are winning the drug war? T
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A staunch libertarian take on the WoD http://www.sho.com/site/ptbs/topics.do?topic=war From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:04:34 -0500 Yes. -Gary Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 3:06 PM: At 04:54 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: USA and Canada. So you feel we are winning the drug war? T
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I don't think locking up grandma and idiot teenagers is the mark of a successful policy. On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course it is up to you to define successful? -Gary Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 3:07 PM: At 04:56 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: Your problem is you have failed to define working. If by working you mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working. If you are defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then you are creating nothing more than a canard. I think working is pretty easy to define: A free society where people take responsibility for their actions, and tax dollars aren't wasted on things that are completely unsuccessful. T -- -jmg Chaos often breeds life, when order breeds habit. Henry Brooks Adams [1838-1918]
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How many of those in jail for drugs are helpless Grandma's and teenagers? Simple question, do the drug laws deter usage? What else are they supposed to do? I suppose we should eliminate laws against theft too since they would also fail your definition of success. -Gary j m g said the following on 8/25/2005 3:08 PM: I don't think locking up grandma and idiot teenagers is the mark of a successful policy. On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course it is up to you to define successful? -Gary Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 3:07 PM: At 04:56 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: Your problem is you have failed to define working. If by working you mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working. If you are defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then you are creating nothing more than a canard. I think working is pretty easy to define: A free society where people take responsibility for their actions, and tax dollars aren't wasted on things that are completely unsuccessful. T
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I'd define working as a decrease in the usage, decrease in ability to get the drugs, decrease in crimes related to the drugs (stealing to get money to pay for them, shootings over who has rights to a certain turf for selling drugs, etc) And this decrease should be significant, especially for the area of related crimes as I'd argue those effect others besides just the user to a much larger degree so are more important. Using that definition I'd say they aren't working Eli - Original Message - From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Your problem is you have failed to define working. If by working you mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working. If you are defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then you are creating nothing more than a canard. -Gary Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 2:58 PM: At 04:44 PM 25/08/2005, Hayes Elkins wrote: And that's one, not several. Please give me some concrete examples of harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term. Saudi Arabia - caught with drugs? Bye bye head. It's also a GREAT place to live. I think that proves my point. Harsh drug laws just don't work. Unless you feel that leaving in an oppressive regime with no drugs or alcohol is working. T
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And here I thought you had to grow them. Anyways, you are missing the point. The criminal operations are the only ones capable of providing the drugs to the legal market. They will continue to make money and do whatever nefarious things with it that they do now. Again, legalizing drugs will do nothing to remove the criminal element. -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 3:50 PM: I'm going to go out on a limb and say some new companies will be created or existing companies will expand to produce them. I'm also going to make this wild assumption that people will rather get their drugs cheaper at the store then pay more to someone sneaking around a street corner. Eli - Original Message - Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol prior to prohibition. So we make drugs legal, where are they going to come from? -Gary Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 2:30 PM: What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of the 30's? From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:24:10 -0500 That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the legalizing drugs crowd. What in God's name makes you think that organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires? Tax the drugs?? LOL. -Gary
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You win. I guess it is time to legalize murder, robbery, rape, etc. since I cannot prove their effectiveness either. LOL -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 3:55 PM: If the desired effect is decreased drug usage and making drugs harder to get along with decreasing crime related to the drug usage then I'd like to see your proof. Eli - Original Message - USA and Canada. -Gary Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 2:48 PM: At 04:11 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: Several. China is a lot better off now, isn't it? I'm not sure. Haven't been there, but I've heard their economy is doing alright. Plus China isn't really a modern, civilized country, so it's hard to compare to the US or Canada. The Netherlands seems to be doing ok. And that's one, not several. Please give me some concrete examples of harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term. T
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I know the history, thanks anyways. -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 4:05 PM: By the way most drugs were legal originally. You may want a small history lesson: http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/12/22/whyIsMarijuanaIllegal.html Eli - Original Message - Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol prior to prohibition. So we make drugs legal, where are they going to come from? -Gary
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Draw that conclusion for me Hayes. You do not think that punishment serves to prevent? I also find it interesting that you would turn to Liddy to try and find support for your position.. -Gary Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 4:12 PM: In general, laws *punish* crime - they do not *prevent* crime. - GG Liddy From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:44:03 -0500 How many of those in jail for drugs are helpless Grandma's and teenagers? Simple question, do the drug laws deter usage? What else are they supposed to do? I suppose we should eliminate laws against theft too since they would also fail your definition of success. -Gary j m g said the following on 8/25/2005 3:08 PM: I don't think locking up grandma and idiot teenagers is the mark of a successful policy. On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course it is up to you to define successful? -Gary Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 3:07 PM: At 04:56 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: Your problem is you have failed to define working. If by working you mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working. If you are defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then you are creating nothing more than a canard. I think working is pretty easy to define: A free society where people take responsibility for their actions, and tax dollars aren't wasted on things that are completely unsuccessful. T
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Drug usage is unquestionably lower as a result of the laws in place, which is their purpose. They are working. Turf wars take place regardless of drugs as do shootings and other crimes. You have no evidence to suggest that making marijuana legal would remedy any of these issues. -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 4:12 PM: I'd define working as a decrease in the usage, decrease in ability to get the drugs, decrease in crimes related to the drugs (stealing to get money to pay for them, shootings over who has rights to a certain turf for selling drugs, etc) And this decrease should be significant, especially for the area of related crimes as I'd argue those effect others besides just the user to a much larger degree so are more important. Using that definition I'd say they aren't working Eli - Original Message - From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Your problem is you have failed to define working. If by working you mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working. If you are defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then you are creating nothing more than a canard. -Gary Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 2:58 PM: At 04:44 PM 25/08/2005, Hayes Elkins wrote: And that's one, not several. Please give me some concrete examples of harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term. Saudi Arabia - caught with drugs? Bye bye head. It's also a GREAT place to live. I think that proves my point. Harsh drug laws just don't work. Unless you feel that leaving in an oppressive regime with no drugs or alcohol is working. T
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If drugs became legal the why won't others try to produce drugs? The way they are made is not a secret. And if you don't have to hide what you are doing they are easy to make. Criminal operations are the only ones providing drugs now as they are illegal to provide. - Original Message - And here I thought you had to grow them. Anyways, you are missing the point. The criminal operations are the only ones capable of providing the drugs to the legal market. They will continue to make money and do whatever nefarious things with it that they do now. Again, legalizing drugs will do nothing to remove the criminal element. -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 3:50 PM: I'm going to go out on a limb and say some new companies will be created or existing companies will expand to produce them. I'm also going to make this wild assumption that people will rather get their drugs cheaper at the store then pay more to someone sneaking around a street corner. Eli - Original Message - Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol prior to prohibition. So we make drugs legal, where are they going to come from? -Gary Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 2:30 PM: What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of the 30's? From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:24:10 -0500 That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the legalizing drugs crowd. What in God's name makes you think that organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires? Tax the drugs?? LOL. -Gary
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Never said they would not. You think the criminals will stand idly by and let their market share be taken from them? Even if they compete using only legal methods they would be formidable. Their operations would also still be very valuable and profitable. And that is my point. If anyone thinks making drugs legal will somehow destroy the criminal enterprises in place today they are mistaken. Or do you think they will just walk away from the drug market because they are legal? -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 5:20 PM: If drugs became legal the why won't others try to produce drugs? The way they are made is not a secret. And if you don't have to hide what you are doing they are easy to make. Criminal operations are the only ones providing drugs now as they are illegal to provide. - Original Message - And here I thought you had to grow them. Anyways, you are missing the point. The criminal operations are the only ones capable of providing the drugs to the legal market. They will continue to make money and do whatever nefarious things with it that they do now. Again, legalizing drugs will do nothing to remove the criminal element. -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 3:50 PM: I'm going to go out on a limb and say some new companies will be created or existing companies will expand to produce them. I'm also going to make this wild assumption that people will rather get their drugs cheaper at the store then pay more to someone sneaking around a street corner. Eli - Original Message - Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol prior to prohibition. So we make drugs legal, where are they going to come from? -Gary Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 2:30 PM: What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of the 30's? From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:24:10 -0500 That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the legalizing drugs crowd. What in God's name makes you think that organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires? Tax the drugs?? LOL. -Gary
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Turf wars happen because those who sell illegal drugs claim certain areas as theirs and others are not allowed to deal in that area. If drugs were made legal no one would buy drugs off the street and they would turn to stores and the like ending the turf wars (well most of them as I guess a few are gang related and have nothing to do with drugs) When was the last time a target employee and Wal-Mart employee were in a shootout? Other crimes take place because users need to steal to get the money to pay for very expensive drugs. Making the drugs legal would decrease the cost of the drugs and so there would be less of a need to steal to get money for them. Eli - Original Message - Drug usage is unquestionably lower as a result of the laws in place, which is their purpose. They are working. Turf wars take place regardless of drugs as do shootings and other crimes. You have no evidence to suggest that making marijuana legal would remedy any of these issues. -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 4:12 PM: I'd define working as a decrease in the usage, decrease in ability to get the drugs, decrease in crimes related to the drugs (stealing to get money to pay for them, shootings over who has rights to a certain turf for selling drugs, etc) And this decrease should be significant, especially for the area of related crimes as I'd argue those effect others besides just the user to a much larger degree so are more important. Using that definition I'd say they aren't working Eli - Original Message - From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Your problem is you have failed to define working. If by working you mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working. If you are defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then you are creating nothing more than a canard. -Gary Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 2:58 PM: At 04:44 PM 25/08/2005, Hayes Elkins wrote: And that's one, not several. Please give me some concrete examples of harsh drug laws having the desired effect over the long term. Saudi Arabia - caught with drugs? Bye bye head. It's also a GREAT place to live. I think that proves my point. Harsh drug laws just don't work. Unless you feel that leaving in an oppressive regime with no drugs or alcohol is working. T
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It was taken from a conversation about gun laws, which I follow closely because I'm a firm believer in the 2nd amendment. I liked the quote so much I use it often. Fits this tangent perfectly. Violent behavior like murder and rape will always happen in spite of tough laws. That is because they are committed by inherently violent, deviant people. The best that law can do is prevent these violent people from committing more rape and murder by either locking them up or charbroiling them on old sparky. Everybody else has an instinctive moral code that perceives murder and rape as wrong without a law or fairy tale dictating so. It is my opinion that personal use of a substance in the privacy of your own home does not make you a violent person, nor a threat to anybody else accept maybe yourself. We already have plenty of laws in place to punish anybody for harm done on somebody else (or risking harm on somebody else) while under the influence of a substance. Marijuana laws send a mixed signal because two drugs that are more harmful, alcohol and chemically treated tobacco, are allowed to be sold over the counter. You ever hear about a raging pot head beating his wife? No, but we see plenty of violent drug dealers, just like the moonshiners and mafia filth of yesteryear. Legitimate, government regulated commerce of their product takes away the criminal element. You may want to inquire about how government provisioned marijuana is farmed. There is no involvement from the usual criminal elements of the illegal drug trade whatsoever. From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:06:05 -0500 Draw that conclusion for me Hayes. You do not think that punishment serves to prevent? I also find it interesting that you would turn to Liddy to try and find support for your position.. -Gary Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 4:12 PM: In general, laws *punish* crime - they do not *prevent* crime. - GG Liddy From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:44:03 -0500 How many of those in jail for drugs are helpless Grandma's and teenagers? Simple question, do the drug laws deter usage? What else are they supposed to do? I suppose we should eliminate laws against theft too since they would also fail your definition of success. -Gary j m g said the following on 8/25/2005 3:08 PM: I don't think locking up grandma and idiot teenagers is the mark of a successful policy. On 8/25/05, Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course it is up to you to define successful? -Gary Thane Sherrington said the following on 8/25/2005 3:07 PM: At 04:56 PM 25/08/2005, Gary Udstrand wrote: Your problem is you have failed to define working. If by working you mean are they acting as a deterrent, then they are working. If you are defining working as the complete eradication of drugs from society then you are creating nothing more than a canard. I think working is pretty easy to define: A free society where people take responsibility for their actions, and tax dollars aren't wasted on things that are completely unsuccessful. T
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My father grew up in Bladen county - an unabashedly dry county in NC (until just recently). It had remained dry for over a century due to many factors, including a very influential and respected church lobby. However the resources to lobby constantly a county board from a church group requires outside monetary assistance. For almost 70 years, the biggest contributors to the anti-liquor lobby in Bladen county are the MOONSHINERS themselves! Think about it - why would they want an ABC store to take away their business? Before Vick's vapor rub, that clear mason jar would be the home rememdy of choice for my father's side of the family. From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:26:52 -0500 Never said they would not. You think the criminals will stand idly by and let their market share be taken from them? Even if they compete using only legal methods they would be formidable. Their operations would also still be very valuable and profitable. And that is my point. If anyone thinks making drugs legal will somehow destroy the criminal enterprises in place today they are mistaken. Or do you think they will just walk away from the drug market because they are legal? -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 5:20 PM: If drugs became legal the why won't others try to produce drugs? The way they are made is not a secret. And if you don't have to hide what you are doing they are easy to make. Criminal operations are the only ones providing drugs now as they are illegal to provide. - Original Message - And here I thought you had to grow them. Anyways, you are missing the point. The criminal operations are the only ones capable of providing the drugs to the legal market. They will continue to make money and do whatever nefarious things with it that they do now. Again, legalizing drugs will do nothing to remove the criminal element. -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 3:50 PM: I'm going to go out on a limb and say some new companies will be created or existing companies will expand to produce them. I'm also going to make this wild assumption that people will rather get their drugs cheaper at the store then pay more to someone sneaking around a street corner. Eli - Original Message - Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol prior to prohibition. So we make drugs legal, where are they going to come from? -Gary Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 2:30 PM: What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of the 30's? From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:24:10 -0500 That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the legalizing drugs crowd. What in God's name makes you think that organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires? Tax the drugs?? LOL. -Gary
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Can you list out some of the advantages the criminal organizations have to produce drugs? - Knowledge of how to produce them doesn't count as there is nothing secret there - Production facilities don't really count as the main thing the criminal ones have to deal with is how to hide the facility - Distribution network doesn't could as legal companies can go direct to the stores while the illegal enterprises have way too many middlemen. Eli - Original Message - Never said they would not. You think the criminals will stand idly by and let their market share be taken from them? Even if they compete using only legal methods they would be formidable. Their operations would also still be very valuable and profitable. And that is my point. If anyone thinks making drugs legal will somehow destroy the criminal enterprises in place today they are mistaken. Or do you think they will just walk away from the drug market because they are legal? -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 5:20 PM: If drugs became legal the why won't others try to produce drugs? The way they are made is not a secret. And if you don't have to hide what you are doing they are easy to make. Criminal operations are the only ones providing drugs now as they are illegal to provide. - Original Message - And here I thought you had to grow them. Anyways, you are missing the point. The criminal operations are the only ones capable of providing the drugs to the legal market. They will continue to make money and do whatever nefarious things with it that they do now. Again, legalizing drugs will do nothing to remove the criminal element. -Gary Eli Allen said the following on 8/25/2005 3:50 PM: I'm going to go out on a limb and say some new companies will be created or existing companies will expand to produce them. I'm also going to make this wild assumption that people will rather get their drugs cheaper at the store then pay more to someone sneaking around a street corner. Eli - Original Message - Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol prior to prohibition. So we make drugs legal, where are they going to come from? -Gary Hayes Elkins said the following on 8/25/2005 2:30 PM: What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of the 30's? From: Gary Udstrand [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:24:10 -0500 That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the legalizing drugs crowd. What in God's name makes you think that organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires? Tax the drugs?? LOL. -Gary
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On that note, in states where they have high taxation of tobacco, they are starting to see illegal tobacco sold, often coming from the middle east(supposedly was financing Saddam). You make a product that is in demand illegal, and the illegal sorts fill that demand. Make it legal, and you cut their legs out from under them. Julian At 01:04 AM 8/25/2005, you wrote: BC Bud! Didn't you see the prime time report? They sell it in shops on the streets using the best seeds from around the globe! Gotta love British Columbia! g What hypocrisy that we still haven't learned Prohibition doesn't work even after all the organized crime that came as a result of criminalization! Try to do the same with tobacco and see what happens! So what if you smoke a bowl in the evening to relax? Who's business is it anyway? Our money would be better spent on public education and rehab rather than interdiction and criminalization! Addictive behavior is associated with self-esteem and that's where our focus should be! So much for wisdom in government!
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At 03:30 PM 8/25/2005, Hayes Elkins typed: What happened to moonshiners and the whiskey running mafia filth of the 30's? The Kennedy's still have most all of their money.. --+-- Wayne D. Johnson Ashland, OH, USA 44805 http://www.wavijo.com
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At 06:32 PM 8/25/2005, Hayes Elkins typed: Marijuana laws send a mixed signal because two drugs that are more harmful, alcohol and chemically treated tobacco, are allowed to be sold over the counter. You ever hear about a raging pot head beating his wife? No, but we see plenty of violent drug dealers, just like the moonshiners and mafia filth of yesteryear. Legitimate, government regulated commerce of their product takes away the criminal element. Alcohol is regulated yet we still have problems with drunk drivers or is that not criminal enough? Oh the criminal element in producing distributing? OBTW go to any bar in the land you'll find some guy trying to get a gal drunk so he can get lucky yes, that's technically that's illegal too. In Ohio the only time that would not be illegal is if one were getting their spouse drunk in order to get lucky. One local idiot used as a defense that she was somebody's wife therefore it should've been legal. As far as turf wars go if it's not about drugs women then it'll be something else. --+-- Wayne D. Johnson Ashland, OH, USA 44805 http://www.wavijo.com
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Crack open a history book. What happened after the end of prohibition is what makes us think that ending drug/MJ prohibition will make them walk away. The is no difference between the two. However, excessively high taxation will create a black market. Julian At 12:24 PM 8/25/2005, you wrote: That is one of the most ludicrous arguments being tossed about by the legalizing drugs crowd. What in God's name makes you think that organized crime will walk away from their BILLION dollar empires? Tax the drugs?? LOL. -Gary
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There was also a thriving, legal business for MJ, opiates, cocaine, etc. before prohibition. Again, no difference at all. Legal drugs will come from, and this may shock you, pharmaceutical companies... since there is no patent, prices will be low. Julian At 12:52 PM 8/25/2005, you wrote: Big difference, there was already a thriving legal business for alcohol prior to prohibition. So we make drugs legal, where are they going to come from? -Gary
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Let me go out on a limb here and assume Gary is either: A. Old enough to be like my booze hound grandparents who thought the government was always right. B. Just young enough to be the product of their warped era. C. A staunch conservative (though so is William F Buckley he gets it). D. A former addict who can only see things as none or abuse. Drugs are not hard to find the laws serve to punish, not deter or help. Now I am out of this thread. Sorry again Jim, I was out all day missed the action here. =) Gary Udstrand wrote: Draw that conclusion for me Hayes. You do not think that punishment serves to prevent? I also find it interesting that you would turn to Liddy to try and find support for your position.. -Gary
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Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. Dave Gibney Pullman, WA And it wasn't the Governor :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Ruset Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:57 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices I am all about Ethanol. Unfortunately in the US the corn farmers are pushing for it. Making Ethanol from Corn is the most inefficient way of doing it, and supposedly yeilds less energy than what was spent in producing it. Making Ethanol from sugar cane, as Brazil has done, makes MORE energy than what was spent in producing it, and has limited Brazil's dependance on foreign oil. From: jeff.lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed Aug 17 15:43:42 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! The oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down in the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be at 50% or more by now! We have plenty of alternatives to gas and batteryso why not use them? We all know why. I think if this keeps up, and I see no reason for it not too(with the oil companies' and Arab greedcan you say jihad in disguise), we will see a flood of small companies offering conversions to anything from chicken manure to corn flakes. BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per carton increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only estate taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! Sorryhad a senior moment and had to get that out. My fixed income will go up about $2.50 a month. Chris, you're rightI will not do math in class Jeff From: Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( From: 007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed Aug 17 13:26:05 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up 5% because then thier profit goes up too. Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my point =) Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! Christopher Fisk -- I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
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Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the buds to Canada. g gibney wrote: Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. Dave Gibney Pullman, WA And it wasn't the Governor :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Ruset Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:57 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices I am all about Ethanol. Unfortunately in the US the corn farmers are pushing for it. Making Ethanol from Corn is the most inefficient way of doing it, and supposedly yeilds less energy than what was spent in producing it. Making Ethanol from sugar cane, as Brazil has done, makes MORE energy than what was spent in producing it, and has limited Brazil's dependance on foreign oil. From: jeff.lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed Aug 17 15:43:42 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! The oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down in the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be at 50% or more by now! We have plenty of alternatives to gas and batteryso why not use them? We all know why. I think if this keeps up, and I see no reason for it not too(with the oil companies' and Arab greedcan you say jihad in disguise), we will see a flood of small companies offering conversions to anything from chicken manure to corn flakes. BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per carton increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only estate taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! Sorryhad a senior moment and had to get that out. My fixed income will go up about $2.50 a month. Chris, you're rightI will not do math in class Jeff From: Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( From: 007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed Aug 17 13:26:05 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up 5% because then thier profit goes up too. Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my point =) Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! Christopher Fisk -- I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
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Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane to dynamite. Popular Mechanics, 1938 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the buds to Canada. g gibney wrote: Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells. Dave Gibney Pullman, WA And it wasn't the Governor :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Ruset Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:57 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices I am all about Ethanol. Unfortunately in the US the corn farmers are pushing for it. Making Ethanol from Corn is the most inefficient way of doing it, and supposedly yeilds less energy than what was spent in producing it. Making Ethanol from sugar cane, as Brazil has done, makes MORE energy than what was spent in producing it, and has limited Brazil's dependance on foreign oil. From: jeff.lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed Aug 17 15:43:42 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! The oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down in the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be at 50% or more by now! We have plenty of alternatives to gas and batteryso why not use them? We all know why. I think if this keeps up, and I see no reason for it not too(with the oil companies' and Arab greedcan you say jihad in disguise), we will see a flood of small companies offering conversions to anything from chicken manure to corn flakes. BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per carton increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only estate taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! Sorryhad a senior moment and had to get that out. My fixed income will go up about $2.50 a month. Chris, you're rightI will not do math in class Jeff From: Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( From: 007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed Aug 17 13:26:05 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up 5% because then thier profit goes up too. Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my point =) Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! Christopher Fisk -- I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07 -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- If you steala this tagline I breaka your keyboard!
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Well there sure is some dynamite hemp floating around somewhere these days! LOL Was just in Vancouver for 8 days and never got over to the little Amsterdam area to see what all the fuss was about. Of course there was the fear of the transaction in the back of my mind since that seems to be the law the get you on rather than possession or use. FORC5 wrote: Over 25,000 products can be manufactured from hemp, from cellophane to dynamite. Popular Mechanics, 1938 At 02:27 AM 8/24/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: Better yet, grow female hemp to ferment into methane and sell the buds to Canada. g gibney wrote: Industrial hemp, digested to methane and powering fuel cells.
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When they come out with LED room lights I'll buy them. Last Spring I converted all the incandescents in my apartment to compact fluorescents for $30 and each one uses 26 watts for 100 watt equivalent output. Who cares if it doesn't make short term economic sense, I have lower electric bills and they won't have to be replaced for 5-7 years (if the claims are acurate). [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Stan Zaske [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:17 AM Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices of the over 50% that we import. A better idea is to ban all incandescent lights for compact fluorescents which only use 1/4 the energy! There are I thought LED's had beat out fluorescents on efficiency. Correct me if I am wrong. Many people died at a major intersection close to my house. People ran red lights at this intersection because they were speeding and approached the intersection far too fast for conditions. They did not realize the red light was there until it was too late. Flashing caution lights to warn of a traffic light ahead were installed several years ago. This slowed down the collisions (people call them accidents, but rarely is a collision an accident, but the results of negligence and easily preventable) at that dangerous intersection. Recently they installed LED traffic lights there. Now the flashing caution lights on approach are useless (except in fog) because the traffic light can be seen brightly for miles against any background. The point here is the LED's are at least 10 times as bright as the lights they replaced and my guess is they use 10% or less energy to operate. LED traffic lights do not turn (you can see regular bulbs dim as they go off and brighten as they come on). LED traffic lights snap (quick change) and that, in itself gets your attention even if you are 2 miles away! I hope LED's are applicable to most all lighting applications, especially street lights, where energy consumption is a major factor in where street lights are installed. Please do not laugh at me if all of your traffic lights are LED's. We are still in the stone age here in Albany, GA and only about 15% of our traffic lights are LED's. I recently had an LED brake light installed on my motorcycle for safety purposes. Chuck
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LOL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Stan Zaske [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:29 AM Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices DOE is run by polititions and you wonder why they're scientific morons? Nice to know none or any of their families have vested interest in major oil companies or contractors such as Halliburton. Chuck
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@ this time in human history there is nothing better than nuclear fission! Doesn't mean that wind farms, solar energy and tidal power aren't also excellent sources of power. We need room temperature super conductors as well to store and distribute energy over long distances. Eli Allen wrote: Nuclear isn't that good. Its non renewable so won't last very long. - Original Message - From: Chris Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'The Hardware List' hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 9:05 AM Subject: RE: [H] Gas prices Realize also, a big chunk of the use of oil in the US doesn't go for car gas.. more like machinery upkeep, that thing called plastic, airlines, etc. I do believe heavily in nuclear power. For others, hell, break out biodiesel ;) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 7:43 AM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices - Original Message - From: Stan Zaske [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:17 AM Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices of the over 50% that we import. A better idea is to ban all incandescent lights for compact fluorescents which only use 1/4 the energy! There are I thought LED's had beat out fluorescents on efficiency. Correct me if I am wrong. Many people died at a major intersection close to my house. People ran red lights at this intersection because they were speeding and approached the intersection far too fast for conditions. They did not realize the red light was there until it was too late. Flashing caution lights to warn of a traffic light ahead were installed several years ago. This slowed down the collisions (people call them accidents, but rarely is a collision an accident, but the results of negligence and easily preventable) at that dangerous intersection. Recently they installed LED traffic lights there. Now the flashing caution lights on approach are useless (except in fog) because the traffic light can be seen brightly for miles against any background. The point here is the LED's are at least 10 times as bright as the lights they replaced and my guess is they use 10% or less energy to operate. LED traffic lights do not turn (you can see regular bulbs dim as they go off and brighten as they come on). LED traffic lights snap (quick change) and that, in itself gets your attention even if you are 2 miles away! I hope LED's are applicable to most all lighting applications, especially street lights, where energy consumption is a major factor in where street lights are installed. Please do not laugh at me if all of your traffic lights are LED's. We are still in the stone age here in Albany, GA and only about 15% of our traffic lights are LED's. I recently had an LED brake light installed on my motorcycle for safety purposes. Chuck
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Excellent author and excellent series! However, nothing beats Niven for the magnitude of his imagination in the early years of his writing career. CW wrote: In the end (though a long way off, apparently) humans will have to accept we will always have a need for some sort of manifest destiny, and the need to spread ourselves across the galaxy in an effort to preserve existance.. of course, that's thousands of years off, apparently, but thought I'd note it ;) (I always think that after reading some Orson Scott Card; finished the series again recently) -Original message- From: Christopher Fisk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:38:49 -0500 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices On Thu, 18 Aug 2005, Eli Allen wrote: Nuclear isn't that good. Its non renewable so won't last very long. I guess very long is subjective. http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/cohen.html 2.5 billion years or so worth of Uranium according to that study. Basically, using heavy water reactors isn't a very efficient way of using uranium. If we switched to breeder reactors (not liked because it produces weapons grade plutonium) we would get more power and longer lasting uranium. We can also use Thrium, plutonium, etc for power generation. Nuclear may no last forever but neither will fusion (the sun will burn out a few billion years). Not nearly as soon as oil though. Christopher Fisk -- Professor: While you were gone the Trotters held a news conference to announce that I was a jive sucker.
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Yeah, tell all the sheep in the nation to rise up and make the best decisions for our country as a whole. How many of us educated members on this list have emailed their congressional representatives this year and demanded they pass legislation that's best for the majority of people? Hayes Elkins wrote: Why would a power company who's end goal is to make money want to cripple their revenue stream by making homes super efficient? I see short term cost savings in this example but I fear there is really no incentive for power companies to encourage energy savings. From: Analyst [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:59:24 -0500 On 18 Aug 2005 at 3:17, Stan Zaske wrote: A better idea is to ban all incandescent lights for compact fluorescents which only use 1/4 the energy! Now that you mention it, there was a study published by the Rocky Mountain Institute (http://www.rmi.org/) a while back, when the electric utility in Colorado had submitted plans to build a new electric power generating plant, that showed that if the utility bought CF lights,and passed them out for free to all of their customers to replace all the incandescent lights in their homes, it would save MORE electricity than the new plant they were planning on constructing would generate operating at full capacity, and save them the tens of millions of dollars of the cost of the construction of the new plant. Amazing. Vince
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That's exactly right, we don't need more electric power generation (unless autos go electric), we need more efficient electrical usage. Analyst wrote: On 18 Aug 2005 at 3:17, Stan Zaske wrote: A better idea is to ban all incandescent lights for compact fluorescents which only use 1/4 the energy! Now that you mention it, there was a study published by the Rocky Mountain Institute (http://www.rmi.org/) a while back, when the electric utility in Colorado had submitted plans to build a new electric power generating plant, that showed that if the utility bought CF lights,and passed them out for free to all of their customers to replace all the incandescent lights in their homes, it would save MORE electricity than the new plant they were planning on constructing would generate operating at full capacity, and save them the tens of millions of dollars of the cost of the construction of the new plant. Amazing. Vince
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I hate the bastard, but in this case he's right! Analyst wrote: On 19 Aug 2005 at 0:12, Tony Antoniou wrote: Bush made the BS oil inflation happen with his War on Terror. Sorry to all you militant Bush supporters out there but Bush and his family of oil-riggers are laughing all the way to the bank, along with the people above them pulling the strings. In October of 1996, Dick Cheney, who was then a member of Congress from Wyoming, said: “Let us rid ourselves of the fiction that low oil prices are somehow good for the United States” Vince
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My, what an intelligent response! Let the man have his opinion right or wrong! FORC5 wrote: bla bla bla At 07:12 AM 8/18/2005, Tony Antoniou Poked the stick with: Bush made the BS oil inflation happen with his “War on Terror”. Sorry to all you militant Bush supporters out there but Bush and his family of oil-riggers are laughing all the way to the bank, along with the people above them pulling the strings. Adios, Tony --- TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums --- -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *FORC5 *Sent:* Thursday, 18 August 2005 6:55 *To:* The Hardware List *Subject:* Re: [H] Gas prices PPL here bitch about the prices but are not willing to do anything about it. Non new refineries in 30 years, and no drilling in Alaska. me, I'd say piss on the Saudi's ( no offense ) , let them see if they can squirt that oil on the sand and grow food with it !!! :-} if it were up to me I'd cut them off completely, then there might be a oil price war and prices may come down. BTW I'm tired of *adjusted for inflation* BS. inflation did not go up 150% in a year bo haha -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- The good old days: Beer foamed and dishwater didn't. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/75 - Release Date: 8/17/2005
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zactly At 01:13 AM 8/19/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: My, what an intelligent response! Let the man have his opinion right or wrong! FORC5 wrote: bla bla bla At 07:12 AM 8/18/2005, Tony Antoniou Poked the stick with: Bush made the BS oil inflation happen with his War on Terror. Sorry to all you militant Bush supporters out there but Bush and his family of oil-riggers are laughing all the way to the bank, along with the people above them pulling the strings. Adios, Tony --- TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums --- -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *FORC5 *Sent:* Thursday, 18 August 2005 6:55 *To:* The Hardware List *Subject:* Re: [H] Gas prices PPL here bitch about the prices but are not willing to do anything about it. Non new refineries in 30 years, and no drilling in Alaska. me, I'd say piss on the Saudi's ( no offense ) , let them see if they can squirt that oil on the sand and grow food with it !!! :-} if it were up to me I'd cut them off completely, then there might be a oil price war and prices may come down. BTW I'm tired of *adjusted for inflation* BS. inflation did not go up 150% in a year bo haha -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- The good old days: Beer foamed and dishwater didn't. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/75 - Release Date: 8/17/2005 -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- I WILL NOT CALL THE PRINCIPAL SPUD HEAD I WILL NOT CALL THE PRINCIPAL SPUD HEAD Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 9F13
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tried those, hope u have better luck then me, mostly they didn't last and I got tired to the not instant on. I would like to invent a bathroom fan switch with a built in timer of only a couple of minutes, on and off in a couple of minutes instead of sucking all the cooling/heating out of the house when u forget to turn it off. })( fp At 12:36 AM 8/19/2005, Stan Zaske Poked the stick with: When they come out with LED room lights I'll buy them. Last Spring I converted all the incandescents in my apartment to compact fluorescents for $30 and each one uses 26 watts for 100 watt equivalent output. Who cares if it doesn't make short term economic sense, I have lower electric bills and they won't have to be replaced for 5-7 years (if the claims are acurate). [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- I WILL NOT CALL THE PRINCIPAL SPUD HEAD I WILL NOT CALL THE PRINCIPAL SPUD HEAD Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 9F13
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At 09:47 AM 8/19/2005, FORC5 typed: tried those, hope u have better luck then me, mostly they didn't last and I got tired to the not instant on. Ditto that how about the poor saps that can't afford the initial capital outlay? I would like to invent a bathroom fan switch with a built in timer of only a couple of minutes, on and off in a couple of minutes instead of sucking all the cooling/heating out of the house when u forget to turn it off. Notice that hotels motels have them on timers or tied into the one only light switch which I also hate. Lets face I don't always go to the bathroom to just make a stink. Heck I use the mirror to gauge whether the house is too dry or not. ;-) --+-- Wayne D. Johnson Ashland, OH, USA 44805 http://www.wavijo.com
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My next door neighbor just moved up there. Small world - Original Message - From: Julian Hale [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 10:37 PM Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Hey, no shit... I just live a little north of you. I'm in Elk. Julian At 04:57 PM 8/17/2005, jeff.lane wrote: Spokane - Original Message - From: Mark Dodge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Hardware List' hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:15 PM Subject: RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices You don't live in Washington do you? -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/75 - Release Date: 8/17/2005
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Crap, I'm moving to Seattle Mark Dodge MD Computers 602-421-0329 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff.lane Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 4:57 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Spokane - Original Message - From: Mark Dodge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Hardware List' hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:15 PM Subject: RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices You don't live in Washington do you? Mark Dodge MD Computers 602-421-0329 -Original Message- BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per carton increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only estate taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now!
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It's very beautiful out here and there is a lot to do on the West Side. 5 Million people living there. It is just the State Government has always ripped everyone off ever since I can remember, and that is a long time. You will enjoy your stay, though. Gas is 2.55-2.65 average so that is pretty much like everyone else. Way too much!!! Jeff - Original Message - From: Mark Dodge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Hardware List' hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:51 PM Subject: RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Crap, I'm moving to Seattle Mark Dodge MD Computers 602-421-0329 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jeff.lane Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 4:57 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices Spokane - Original Message - From: Mark Dodge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Hardware List' hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:15 PM Subject: RE: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices You don't live in Washington do you? Mark Dodge MD Computers 602-421-0329 -Original Message- BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per carton increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only estate taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/75 - Release Date: 8/17/2005
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You know, not all Westerners are stoopid! I love high gas prices and have waited decades to see them! The only way we can get off of the oil tit is to make alternative energy sources economical. Expensive gas in the short term is a definite hardship but cheap gas in the long term is a serious detriment to Western societies and will not drive efforts into producing new technologies which coincidentally create new jobs! As if that weren't reason enough, a significant portion of those oil dollars goes into procuring weapons that haters out there love to kill innocent people with! No offense to peace loving Arabs around the World and enjoy your Suburban's and Expedition's until we wean ourselves off your oil and you can't give it away! Zulfiqar Naushad wrote: Gas prices expensive??? Here in Saudi Arabia the state price (i.e. nothing less or more than the state price is available at any gas station) is .90 halalas (cent equivalent of a riyal(dollar)) per liter. i.e 1 Gallon = 90 US cents. BWAHAHAHAH!!! Almost every car here in Saudi is a V6 or a V8!!! They love suburbans and expeditions here!!! On Aug 17, 2005, at 7:14 PM, Thane Sherrington wrote: Our gas prices climbed $0.06 per litre yesterday, so we are at $4.27 US per gallon now. Just wondering what you're paying down in there. T
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We've been talking about fuel cells as in hydrogen powered fuel cells that only produce water as a waste by product which on paper looks great. Only in reality it doesn't work because there isn't a practical method of producing hydrogen in usable form and storing it in sufficient quantities to drive your auto a reasonable distance before having to refuel. How many days go by before we refuel with gasoline? One week? How would you like to stop at the hydrogen station everyday to fill up? Basically, hydrogen as a fuel for mobile vehicles sucks! Barring some major scientific breakthrough of course! jeff.lane wrote: Fuel cells are a very good alternative and should be practically available in the near future. Jeff - Original Message - From: Christopher Fisk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:39 AM Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( This doesn't make sense. It takes energy to split water into Oxygen and hydrogen. To then burn that hydrogen to power the car is just a waste of energy. Why not just use the energy used to crack the water to power the car? There is no such thing as a perpetual motion machine =) Christopher Fisk -- BOFH Excuse #330: quantum decoherence
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Absolutely correct! Ethanol is another farm subsidy designed to give farmers another market for their huge overproduction of food. This idea only works with cheap oil and that clearly isn't going to be the case from now on! Expensive oil is here to stay and I say it's about time we got our energy house in order! We need more nuclear powered electrical production (pebble beds won't melt down) and the new coal scrubbing technology that gets the sulfur out of the emmisions which prevents acid rain, solar powered tax credits to drive new sun-powered tech, more wind power (despite aesthetic objections) like the off-shore wind farms that rich people have been fighting for years etc! We should have been preparing for this day 30 years ago and shame on us for not doing so when it would have been much less traumatic! Gary Udstrand wrote: Ethanol is a boondoggle. It has been demonstrated that it takes more fossil fuel is used to create Ethanol than it provides in return. Ethanol programs are nothing more that governments subsidies for ADM. -Gary jeff.lane said the following on 8/17/2005 3:43 PM: Hell, we can grow ethanol. Read the stars, guys, we are getting screwed! The oil companies have been crying for years that oil prices are way behind inflation. I say, so what! I thought the idea was to keep inflation down in the first place. The Government needs to include fuel and food in the inflation indicators. Of course, if they do prime interest rates would be at 50% or more by now! We have plenty of alternatives to gas and batteryso why not use them? We all know why. I think if this keeps up, and I see no reason for it not too(with the oil companies' and Arab greedcan you say jihad in disguise), we will see a flood of small companies offering conversions to anything from chicken manure to corn flakes. BTW. Our new piece of crap Governor just signed a 9.5 cent increase in our state gas taxes..highest in the US..again! OH..$6.00 per carton increase for cigarettes, $6.00 per gallon booze, reinitiated the only estate taxes, and a whole lot more. We really need that right now! Sorryhad a senior moment and had to get that out. My fixed income will go up about $2.50 a month. Chris, you're rightI will not do math in class Jeff From: Ben Ruset [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices A few years ago BMW showed off a 5 series that ran off water. It cracked the water into hydrogen within the car itself. Of course that tech won't ever see the light of day. :( From: 007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed Aug 17 13:26:05 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: RE: Re: [H] Gas prices The most fuel efficient cars use heavy water. 007. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Christopher Fisk Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:16 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: Re: [H] Gas prices On Wed, 17 Aug 2005, Ben Ruset wrote: It's funny, though, that the gas companies are posting record profits. So I really wonder how much of this is an increase in oil price, and how much is just an excuse to charge more for gasoline. I look at it this way, assuming that a gas company wants to make 5% profit on every gallon of gas, it's in thier interest to have thier costs go up 5% because then thier profit goes up too. Instead of making 5cents on gas that costs them $1.00 to make they make 6 cents profit on gas that cost them $1.05 to make (Or similar, you get my point =) Also, the gas we have now was made with oil that cost $50/barrel instead of oil that cost $65/barrel, yet we're being charged the $65/barrel price! Christopher Fisk -- I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS I WILL NOT DO MATH IN CLASS Lisa Simpson on chalkboard in episode BABF07
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Great idea! Unfortunately, all the oil in Alaska is only a few percent of the over 50% that we import. A better idea is to ban all incandescent lights for compact fluorescents which only use 1/4 the energy! There are many other simple methods that we could use to ease the energy crunch in the short term. I for one hope we employ everything at our disposal to ease and eventually eliminate our dependence on foreign oil. Ben Ruset wrote: Didn't drilling in Alaska just pass? I consider myself an environmentalist and I support drilling in Alaska. From: FORC5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed Aug 17 15:55:00 CDT 2005 To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Gas prices PPL here bitch about the prices but are not willing to doanything about it. Non new refineries in 30 years, and no drilling inAlaska. me, I'd say piss on the Saudi's ( no offense ) , let them see if they cansquirt that oil on the sand and grow food with it !!! :-} if it were up to me I'd cut them off completely, then there might be aoil price war and prices may come down. BTW I'm tired of *adjusted for inflation* BS. inflation did not go up150% in a year bo haha At 01:17 PM 8/17/2005, Zulfiqar Naushad Poked the stick with: Gas prices expensive??? Here in Saudi Arabia the state price (i.e. nothing less or morethan the state price is available at any gas station) is .90 halalas(cent equivalent of a riyal(dollar)) per liter. i.e 1 Gallon = 90 US cents. BWAHAHAHAH!!! Almost every car here in Saudi is a V6 or a V8!!! They love suburbans and expeditions here!!! On Aug 17, 2005, at 7:14 PM, Thane Sherrington wrote: Our gas prices climbed $0.06 perlitre yesterday, so we are at $4.27 US per gallon now. Just wondering what you're paying downin there. T -- Tallyho ! ]:8) Taglines below ! -- And all the children are above average in our system.
