Re: [Haskell-cafe] Are there any female Haskellers?
On Mar 28, 2010, at 9:52 AM, Luke Palmer wrote: On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Peter Verswyvelen bugf...@gmail.com wrote: So the first computer nerd was a women??!!! ;-) ;-) ;-) Yeah, and she was so attractive that the entire male gender spent the next 50 years trying to impress her. Augusta Ada King, Countess of Lovelace. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_Lovelace Ada Lovelace day was last week. She was a *real* programmer: had to figure out how to program the machine before it was built. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com writes: I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project and would would normally just go with Debian I think Debian (I use Ubuntu, which inherits its packages) just got a lot better. I upgraded to 10.4 Lucid, and now I have ghc 6.12.1 and a lot of libraries from the distribution. My main reason for using Ubuntu is that it does relatively frequent and stable releases, good sized package repository, and a large user base. This way, there are a zillion other users with the exact same set of packages, and any problem you encounter is very likely to have been encountered (and solved) by somebody else already. -k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com wrote: Hi, I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project and would would normally just go with Debian (pedigree, stability, and of course Haskell Platfom included) but CentOS is in the frame. Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding any particular distribution? If security is important, you might want SELinux. I know Fedora does SELinux rather well, but I haven't used it with any other distribution. Jaso ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 23:13:04 -0500 Jeff == Jeff Wheeler j...@nokrev.com wrote: Jeff A bunch of stuff is packaged by dons for Arch; you can see a lot Jeff of links to the Arch packages on Hackage. It might be worth Jeff looking into. +1 for Arch. Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
My choice is latest packages available throug package manager and I use Fedora 12 as of now. Fedora 13 is coming out with ghc 6.12 By the way did you find out any packaged rpms for ghc on Centos? I remember a thread from haskell beginners on this where somebody was trying to get ghc installed on Centos and was doing it from sources. On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Gour g...@gour-nitai.com wrote: On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 23:13:04 -0500 Jeff == Jeff Wheeler j...@nokrev.com wrote: Jeff A bunch of stuff is packaged by dons for Arch; you can see a lot Jeff of links to the Arch packages on Hackage. It might be worth Jeff looking into. +1 for Arch. Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Hlapicina, Croatia | GPG key: F96FF5F6 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Regards Lakshmi Narasimhan T V ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
On 28/03/10 08:50, Gour wrote: On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 23:13:04 -0500 Jeff == Jeff Wheeler j...@nokrev.com wrote: Jeff A bunch of stuff is packaged by dons for Arch; you can see a lot Jeff of links to the Arch packages on Hackage. It might be worth Jeff looking into. +1 for Arch. Add one more for Arch. I have to say it looks like Debian has gotten their act together somewhat when it comes to Haskel development. Many of the reasons for my deserting Debian seem have been taken care of. /M -- Magnus Therning(OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4) magnus＠therning．org Jabber: magnus＠therning．org http://therning.org/magnus identi.ca|twitter: magthe signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Testing for valid data
On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 2:42 PM, michael rice nowg...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Ketil, Good point, but I think it side-steps the question. Haskell coughs on a data value. Do we grep our data, finding and fixing the offender, or build extensive data tests into our application code? I'm not convinced I understand your question, but I think I get part of it. I think approaches where you munge the input to make it fit your expectations are almost always wrong. They tend to lead to subtle problems and overcomplication. Consider HTML in the early days compared to more recent developments in that area. Back in the late 90s and early 2000s browsers were being made that just magically accepted invalid HTML and silently interpreted it in whatever ways the authors felt like. Things aren't perfect now, but I think it's been getting better by having the implementations be pickier about malformed input. As for building extensive data tests, I'm not sure what you mean here. I would have to see examples. Often if you have a solid parser that throws detailed errors on invalid input then you're good to go right? And of course, you don't want to let garbage into your program. That's going to lead to headaches. Jason ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Are there any female Haskellers?
Alberto G. Corona wrote: The reasons for the sexual differences in mathematical abilities are different, because math abilities are not a -primary- reason for survival. Tools engineering and mastering is. If this is politically incorrect I beg you pardon, but this is my honest theory about that. My other hobby is evolution and evolutionary psichology. I really recommend to learn about it. Could you point us to any evidence that supports your assumption that there are sexual differences in mathematical abilities? Thanks, Jochem -- Jochem Berndsen | joc...@functor.nl ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
As a developer in 3 languages (ruby java professionally, haskell as hobby) I must say I really prefer just managing this manually, separate from the package manager. I'm running ubuntu LTS (8.04) on production servers. I don't want to upgrade a server OS every 6 months, so I really like the more conservative LTS approach that ubuntu took. But this would mean that an environment for a language would also be somewhat frozen for at least 2 years, which isn't very useful. When 10.04 gets out with ghc 6.12.1, it will still mean that's the only thing available until 2012, or I need to upgrade the entire OS every 6 months. Developers prefer newer versions of ubuntu on their machines, or another distro (or use a mac). To get stuff working the same on all machines, it's really just the easiest just to use manual installation. I just keep stuff in /opt /opt/ghc-6.10.4 /opt/ghc-6.12.1 /opt/java6 /opt/jruby-1.4 /opt/ruby-1.9 /opt/ruby-enterprise-1.8.6 /opt/ruby-enterprise-1.8.7 This has a lot of advantages: - I don't have to wait for certain updated packages (for libs or compiler / interpreter stuff). - I can keep multiple versions of a language around and just switch by changing PATH (for which I have aliases/helpers). This opens up possibilities to keep legacy code running (I mean upgrading to ubuntu 10.04 will mean breaking any apps that aren't fully 6.12 compatible yet), and allows somewhat more experimental projects to use latests-and-greatest (or even beta) versions of an environment. - no problems mixing package-manager installed libs with manually installed stuff I saw this has improved a bit for ruby/haskell quite a bit, now allowing installation of manually installed libs to a user home-dir. But I prefer not splitting my packages over multiple locations, so just keeping them in 1 place manually. This means that (when building/installing stuff) I have to install some packages like gcc/binutils and some -dev (header) packages when I need to bind to native code (I can uninstall them afterwards). For getting an environment uprunning I just have some bash-scripts which install needed (package-manager) packages, download the sources I need and install stuff to /opt, and clean up afterwards. It's easy to keep those scripts portable between distributions/versions/architectures. This way, developers can run any distro they like, and I can keep using the more conservative LTS release on production. For production machines (that all have same OS and architecture) I build everything on 1 machine and have others just sync the /opt stuff if needed. This might not be a solution for you, it really depends on your needs, but for me, I found it's often useful to control the exact environment an application needs and it gives developers the freedom to run whatever OS they like, which is a huge benefit if you use contractors or if devs want to work from home. On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com wrote: Hi, I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project and would would normally just go with Debian (pedigree, stability, and of course Haskell Platfom included) but CentOS is in the frame. Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding any particular distribution? Chris --- Chris Dornan email : ch...@chrisdornan.com tel : +1 (847) 691 7945 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Are there any female Haskellers?
Jochem Berndsen joc...@functor.nl writes: Could you point us to any evidence that supports your assumption that there are sexual differences in mathematical abilities? Luce Irigaray? (Amply butcherd by Sokal and Bricmont, or see e.g. http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Luce_Irigaray) This is as dumb as post-modern feminism can get, of course, but there you are. One observation I've made is that out of my informatics courses, the one on universal algebra was the most gender equal. This corresponds well to the observation that math has a larger female component than computer science. You'd have thought that Haskell, being so mathsy, would appeal to women, but this list must be one of the most gender *in*equal, I've no idea why (and I can't say I much care). -k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
Leon Smith leon.p.sm...@gmail.com writes: On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 1:56 PM, Jason Dagit da...@codersbase.com wrote: For some reason it started out as a male dominated field. Let's assume for cultural reasons. Once it became a male dominated field, us males unknowingly made the work and learning environments somewhat hostile or unattractive to women. I bet I would feel out of place if I were the only male in a class of 100 women. Is this really true? I've heard rumors that in the early days of programming, that women were in the majority, or at least they represented a much greater proportion of programmers than they do now. I seem to recall that this started to change sometime in the 60s. One thing I observed of the Computer Science Tripos in Cambridge was that the absolute number of women doing the course didn't change much, but the size of the course increased over the years. This suggests that men went into it because it was trendy, but for the most part women went into it because they found it interesting (and the proportion of women in the general population who find it interesting was roughly constant). This was twenty years ago, and I don't know if the subsequent data supports the hypothesis. Another (provocative) observation is that most of the women programmers I've known were good at it and thought they might not be, but most of the men claimed to be good at it but were not. -- Jón Fairbairn jon.fairba...@cl.cam.ac.uk http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Stuff-I-dont-want.html (updated 2009-01-31) ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Internet game servers in Haskell?
Hi, Am Samstag, den 27.03.2010, 10:14 + schrieb Colin Paul Adams: Has anyone ever written a server in Haskell for managing live game-playing (any game) across the internet? I never worked with it or looked at the code, but it seems that the server for hedgewars (A Worms clone) is written in Haskell. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgewars#Development http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/hedgewars Greetings, Joachim -- Joachim nomeata Breitner mail: m...@joachim-breitner.de | ICQ# 74513189 | GPG-Key: 4743206C JID: nome...@joachim-breitner.de | http://www.joachim-breitner.de/ Debian Developer: nome...@debian.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Hi, Am Sonntag, den 28.03.2010, 09:04 +0100 schrieb Magnus Therning: I have to say it looks like Debian has gotten their act together somewhat when it comes to Haskel development. Many of the reasons for my deserting Debian seem have been taken care of. so, what is missing for you to come back :-) Greetings, Joachim (with his Debian-Haskell-Group member hat on) -- Joachim nomeata Breitner Debian Developer nome...@debian.org | ICQ# 74513189 | GPG-Keyid: 4743206C JID: nome...@joachim-breitner.de | http://people.debian.org/~nomeata signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
On 27/03/2010 21:27, Günther Schmidt wrote: Hi guys (and I mean it), so, in short, no female haskellers ... Bare one which sent me an email directly, but it looks like she's not ready to come out of the closet yet. And those of us already named for you. And there're a few others around - my girlfriend dabbles, though she's not on the list. You might want to wait until after the weekend too. Assuming anyone else can be bothered to reply, that is. Not everyone wants to come display themselves on demand. -- fli...@flippac.org ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] GHC vs GCC
On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Roman Leshchinskiy r...@cse.unsw.edu.auwrote: On 28/03/2010, at 01:36, Jan-Willem Maessen wrote: It's worth pointing out that there's a bit of bang-pattern mysticism going on in this conversation (which has not been uncommon of late!). A non-buggy strictness analyzer should expose the strictness of these functions without difficulty. Actually, rangeJ is lazy in i and rangeK is lazy in i and j. GHC does unbox everything important here but that needs more optimisations than just strictness analysis. You are right, though, that GHC doesn't need bang patterns here. Quite right, the condition in rangeK that mentions all variables is under another condition: rangeK :: Int - Int - Int - Int - Int rangeK i j k acc | k 1000 = if i * i + j * j + k * k `mod` 7 == 0 ... So we need to apply some constructor specialization as well to notice that i and j are always of the form (Int# i#). -Jan Roman ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
Dear Philippa, display themselves on demand is putting it rather harshly don't you think? I pretty much injected my previous email back into the thread because I felt I asked a simple question and find that people are getting a bit carried away. I am for instance quite certain that Lady Ada Lovelace is not subscribed to this list. To me the question was non-controversial or so I thought but it seems to have stirred quite a bit of passionate responses. (For which I merely do not wish to be blamed). I agree though that concluding there are no female haskellers on this list was premature and promise to exercise more patience. Best regards Günther Am 28.03.10 15:10, schrieb Philippa Cowderoy: On 27/03/2010 21:27, Günther Schmidt wrote: Hi guys (and I mean it), so, in short, no female haskellers ... Bare one which sent me an email directly, but it looks like she's not ready to come out of the closet yet. And those of us already named for you. And there're a few others around - my girlfriend dabbles, though she's not on the list. You might want to wait until after the weekend too. Assuming anyone else can be bothered to reply, that is. Not everyone wants to come display themselves on demand. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] is anyone familiar with Comprehending Queries by Torsten Grust?
Hi all, is anyone here familiar with the paper Comprehending Queries by Thorsten Grust? http://kops.ub.uni-konstanz.de/volltexte/1999/312/pdf/312_1.pdf As the paper dates from 1999 I wonder if its content may have been obsoleted by later works or if it still is pretty much current. I ask this because I'm still struggling to put my program with lots of queries on a more sound code base. Günther ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
2010/3/28 Günther Schmidt gue.schm...@web.de Dear Philippa, display themselves on demand is putting it rather harshly don't you think? In the context of an existing, lengthy discussion that displays the ignorance of some of its participants, no. I could easily see reading the discussion thus far and deciding to take the path of least resistance and keep quiet. It's worth noting the following study, which received quite a bit of media attention: http://www.pnas.org/content/106/22/8801.abstract This argues that gender differences in math performance vary among cultures, and that differences in math performance are thus more likely cultural rather than genetic. Discussions of the study often mention that fact that previous work citing evidence for innateness of ability tended to focus on participants with a shared cultural background. A relatively recent article in CACM made much the same point for CS; particularly noteworthy to me is the rather different proportion of undergrad CS majors in different countries (the US is particularly low): http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1461928.1461947coll=portaldl=ACMidx=J79part=magazineWantType=Magazinestitle=Communications -Jan-Willem Maessen ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
Am 28. März 2010 07:15 schrieb Jan-Willem Maessen jmaes...@alum.mit.edu: A relatively recent article in CACM made much the same point for CS; particularly noteworthy to me is the rather different proportion of undergrad CS majors in different countries (the US is particularly low): http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1461928.1461947coll=portaldl=ACMidx=J79part=magazineWantType=Magazinestitle=Communications I believe this is the same article, available free of charge: http://www.cs.umass.edu/~lfriedl/tmp/cacm-2009-02-womenInCS.pdf The relative rates of graduation are on the first and second pages. -- Jason Dusek ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] GHC vs GCC vs JHC
Does anything change if you swap the first two rhss? On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 1:28 AM, Roman Leshchinskiy r...@cse.unsw.edu.au wrote: On 28/03/2010, at 09:47, Lennart Augustsson wrote: It's important to switch from mod to rem. This can be done by a simple abstract interpretation. Also, changing the definition of rem from a `rem` b | b == 0 = divZeroError | a == minBound b == (-1) = overflowError | otherwise = a `remInt` b to a `rem` b | b == 0 = divZeroError | b == (-1) a == minBound = overflowError | otherwise = a `remInt` b speeds up the GHC version by about 20%. Figuring out why is left as an exercise to the reader :-) Roman ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
On Sun, 28 Mar 2010, G?nther Schmidt wrote display themselves on demand is putting it rather harshly don't you think? No. The women in our community are not required to come forth as witnesses on what it's like to be women in our community. They most likely do not want to be under a magnifying glass, do not want to be exposed to harrasment, and would not actually be qualified to personally represent all other women in the community. They do not want to be held up as community ornaments. If you're wondering how I know what women in our community want -- I don't. I'm just paraphrasing things that women in this situation have repeatedly said, and yet, somehow, gone unheard. It was probably also uncool to call out a specific woman by name, who did not volunteer for this. # I think we have some work to do to make the haskell community inclusive. One thing that I keep hearing is I'm not trying to be offensive. I think it's easy to get caught up on not being offensive so that we don't make any progress. It's impossible not to offend people -- but it is possible to take the time to listen and correct problematic behavior and communicate what you've learned to others. It is, however, not necessary to speculate on why there are few women in the community. A great deal has already been written on the topic, particularly on the Geek Feminism blog, which I already mentioned, and also by the debian-women team. http://geekfeminism.org/ http://women.debian.org/home/ There is also a paper (click the link to the PDF) by the AAUW. http://www.aauw.org/research/whysofew.cfm By the way, there is a fun test that can identify a subconscious tendency to categorize math, engineering and the hard sciences according to gender. https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/ Click on the Demonstrations link and take the Gender-Science IAT. It's important that people who want to make our community more inclusive speak up, and that we challenge assumptions or statements that work against inclusivity. This is not about protecting women -- it is about making it clear that someone who makes a sexist statement does not represent us, and it's about teaching those fellow haskellers who will listen to be better citizens. Someone mentioned reddit. The haskell community has a considerable presence on reddit, but reddit has a reputation for hard misogyny. As of this morning, the haskell.org main page is three easy clicks from an adult web site (haskell.org - haskell subreddit - reddit main page - whatever is there). This is probably not sending the right message. Please, try to take the time to study the above reasources and apply them to the benefit of our community. Friendly, --Lane ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
Dear Christopher, Am 28.03.10 18:11, schrieb Christopher Lane Hinson: On Sun, 28 Mar 2010, G?nther Schmidt wrote display themselves on demand is putting it rather harshly don't you think? No. The women in our community are not required to come forth as witnesses on what it's like to be women in our community. They most likely do not want to be under a magnifying glass, do not want to be exposed to harrasment, and would not actually be qualified to personally represent all other women in the community. They do not want to be held up as community ornaments. I wish to clarify here: I don't recall writing in my initial email Female Haskellers I demand you identify yourselves. So I took offense on the suggestion I did so. If you're wondering how I know what women in our community want -- I don't. I'm just paraphrasing things that women in this situation have repeatedly said, and yet, somehow, gone unheard. Do not worry, I wasn't. It was probably also uncool to call out a specific woman by name, who did not volunteer for this. Do suggest I did so? I don't recall mentioning anyone by name. # I think we have some work to do to make the haskell community inclusive. Possibly so, but until now I have no indication that it's not, could you elaborate where you see a problem? Also I personally don't do community thingies, I'm just not that kind of person. I'm not sure about haskell-community. I mean I like haskell, am interested in it, appreciate being in contact with people who do likewise but community? I don't remember signing up or pledging allegiance. One thing that I keep hearing is I'm not trying to be offensive. I think it's easy to get caught up on not being offensive so that we don't make any progress. It's impossible not to offend people -- but it is possible to take the time to listen and correct problematic behavior and communicate what you've learned to others. One thing I do notice, one starts with a harmless question and it out of the blue it suddenly becomes political. In both ways. Is there really a need for this? Best regards Günther ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
It was probably also uncool to call out a specific woman by name, who did not volunteer for this. Do suggest I did so? I don't recall mentioning anyone by name. No, you didn't. That was someone else. I like haskell, am interested in it, appreciate being in contact with people who do That's the haskell community pledge of allegiance, right there. Congratulations, you wrote it! One thing I do notice, one starts with a harmless question and it out of the blue it suddenly becomes political. In both ways. Is there really a need for this? Yes, because what may be a harmless abstract question to you may directly affect someone else's day-to-day life. Try to learn from people in these situations, even if you are frustrated by them. Friendly, --Lane ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] chp-plus doesn't install
Neil Brown wrote: Colin Paul Adams wrote: I'm getting these errors (ghc 6.10.4 on Linux x86_64): Building chp-plus-1.1.0... [1 of 9] Compiling Control.Concurrent.CHP.Test ( Control/Concurrent/CHP/Test.hs, dist/build/Control/Concurrent/CHP/Test.o ) [2 of 9] Compiling Control.Concurrent.CHP.Console ( Control/Concurrent/CHP/Console.hs, dist/build/Control/Concurrent/CHP/Console.o ) [3 of 9] Compiling Control.Concurrent.CHP.Connect ( Control/Concurrent/CHP/Connect.hs, dist/build/Control/Concurrent/CHP/Connect.o ) Control/Concurrent/CHP/Connect.hs:146:67: Couldn't match expected type `ChanOpts a' against inferred type `ConnectableParam (Chanout a)' In the first argument of `oneToOneChannel'', namely `o' In the second argument of `($)', namely `oneToOneChannel' o' In the first argument of `(=)', namely `((writer reader) $ oneToOneChannel' o)' There's no conflict between the two instances, though. I wonder if making ConnectableParam depend on l and r would fix it. I'll look further into this when I get onto a 6.10.4 machine. That did indeed turn out to be the fix. That will teach me to release a package without remembering to test it on GHC 6.10 first. I've uploaded chp-plus 1.2.0 to Hackage, which should fix this issue (among other changes). So: cabal update cabal install chp-plus Should work now. Let me know if you have any other troubles. Thanks, Neil. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
Am 28.03.10 18:51, schrieb Christopher Lane Hinson: It was probably also uncool to call out a specific woman by name, who did not volunteer for this. Do suggest I did so? I don't recall mentioning anyone by name. No, you didn't. That was someone else. I like haskell, am interested in it, appreciate being in contact with people who do That's the haskell community pledge of allegiance, right there. Congratulations, you wrote it! Oh dear what was I getting myself into when I subscribed :) One thing I do notice, one starts with a harmless question and it out of the blue it suddenly becomes political. In both ways. Is there really a need for this? Yes, because what may be a harmless abstract question to you may directly affect someone else's day-to-day life. Try to learn from people in these situations, even if you are frustrated by them. This is definately a point where we will continue to disagree. I found myself assuming that there are no female haskellers and wanted to verify it by asking for data. At such a point, while the facts where not even yet established I had not even thought about interpretations, cause or implications, I started from scratch. I am not a scientist but believe that this approach broadly qualified as a scientific one. Well yes I know that science is not popular with everyone. So I continue to think that some responses where disproportionate, a point to think about in itself. Best regards Günther ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Are there any gay haskelleres?
Hi guys, are there any gay haskellers? ... Since the first one was so much fun ;) Günther ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
Well said. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] chp-plus doesn't install
Neil == Neil Brown nc...@kent.ac.uk writes: Neil That did indeed turn out to be the fix. That will teach me to Neil release a package without remembering to test it on GHC 6.10 Neil first. I've uploaded chp-plus 1.2.0 to Hackage, which should Neil fix this issue (among other changes). So: Neil cabal update cabal install chp-plus Neil Should work now. Let me know if you have any other troubles. Yes, I was able to compile and run the first program in the tutorial. Thanks. -- Colin Adams Preston Lancashire ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Are there any male haskellers?
Hi everyone, are there any male haskellers? I hope this question is not considered inappropriate Günther ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Are there any male haskellers?
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 07:26:58PM +0200, Günther Schmidt wrote: Hi everyone, are there any male haskellers? I hope this question is not considered inappropriate Gender doesn't belong in pure code, but belongs in a Gon^WMonad. -- Darrin Chandler| Phoenix BSD User Group | MetaBUG dwchand...@stilyagin.com | http://phxbug.org/ | http://metabug.org/ http://www.stilyagin.com/ | Daemons in the Desert | Global BUG Federation ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
RE: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Thanks everyone, Your observations have been most valuable but Mathijs' advice was excellent. You may well want to pick a distribution that supports Haskell in choosing a distribution for general work but for a serious project you in effect build your own Haskell distribution and choose the Linux distribution that matches the destination ecosystem--in my case CentOS. This has nothing at all to do with my own preferences but the fact that CentOS is already being used in the target system (comprising multiple Linux systems). Thanks again, Chris -Original Message- From: haskell-cafe-boun...@haskell.org [mailto:haskell-cafe-boun...@haskell.org] On Behalf Of Mathijs Kwik Sent: 28 March 2010 5:13 AM To: haskell-cafe@haskell.org Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution As a developer in 3 languages (ruby java professionally, haskell as hobby) I must say I really prefer just managing this manually, separate from the package manager. I'm running ubuntu LTS (8.04) on production servers. I don't want to upgrade a server OS every 6 months, so I really like the more conservative LTS approach that ubuntu took. But this would mean that an environment for a language would also be somewhat frozen for at least 2 years, which isn't very useful. When 10.04 gets out with ghc 6.12.1, it will still mean that's the only thing available until 2012, or I need to upgrade the entire OS every 6 months. Developers prefer newer versions of ubuntu on their machines, or another distro (or use a mac). To get stuff working the same on all machines, it's really just the easiest just to use manual installation. I just keep stuff in /opt /opt/ghc-6.10.4 /opt/ghc-6.12.1 /opt/java6 /opt/jruby-1.4 /opt/ruby-1.9 /opt/ruby-enterprise-1.8.6 /opt/ruby-enterprise-1.8.7 This has a lot of advantages: - I don't have to wait for certain updated packages (for libs or compiler / interpreter stuff). - I can keep multiple versions of a language around and just switch by changing PATH (for which I have aliases/helpers). This opens up possibilities to keep legacy code running (I mean upgrading to ubuntu 10.04 will mean breaking any apps that aren't fully 6.12 compatible yet), and allows somewhat more experimental projects to use latests-and-greatest (or even beta) versions of an environment. - no problems mixing package-manager installed libs with manually installed stuff I saw this has improved a bit for ruby/haskell quite a bit, now allowing installation of manually installed libs to a user home-dir. But I prefer not splitting my packages over multiple locations, so just keeping them in 1 place manually. This means that (when building/installing stuff) I have to install some packages like gcc/binutils and some -dev (header) packages when I need to bind to native code (I can uninstall them afterwards). For getting an environment uprunning I just have some bash-scripts which install needed (package-manager) packages, download the sources I need and install stuff to /opt, and clean up afterwards. It's easy to keep those scripts portable between distributions/versions/architectures. This way, developers can run any distro they like, and I can keep using the more conservative LTS release on production. For production machines (that all have same OS and architecture) I build everything on 1 machine and have others just sync the /opt stuff if needed. This might not be a solution for you, it really depends on your needs, but for me, I found it's often useful to control the exact environment an application needs and it gives developers the freedom to run whatever OS they like, which is a huge benefit if you use contractors or if devs want to work from home. On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com wrote: Hi, I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project and would would normally just go with Debian (pedigree, stability, and of course Haskell Platfom included) but CentOS is in the frame. Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding any particular distribution? Chris --- Chris Dornan email : ch...@chrisdornan.com tel : +1 (847) 691 7945 ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Refactoring of OAuth Library - Need Review
Hi, I've done a complete refactoring of oauth library. This new version is incompatible (in terms of interface) with the previous one. An example of use is available here: http://projects.bitforest.org/hoauth/dist/doc/html/hoauth/Network-OAuth.html Probably the major change is that, along the functions that deal with oauth authentication, there is now an HttpClient typeclass. The library now is able to perform http requests and fully deal with the oauth protocol. I'm planning to upload to hackage soon enough, but before that I'd like to ask if someone could review it and send feedbacks. That would be much appreciated. To get the code: $ darcs get http://projects.bitforest.org/hoauth/ To run tests: $ haskell -isrc/main/haskell -isrc/test/haskell src/test/haskell/Tests.hs Thanks in advance, ~dsouza ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Chris Dornan ch...@chrisdornan.com wrote: I am choosing a Linux distribution for a production Haskell project and would would normally just go with Debian (pedigree, stability, and of course Haskell Platfom included) but CentOS is in the frame. Are there any particularly strong reasons for preferring or avoiding any particular distribution? I can only speak for Gentoo, not for the others, and as a Haskell developer I am very happy with it. It has the Haskell Platform as well as lots of independent packages in the mainstream repository. Also it has a very flexible package management system called Portage. Using the 'haskell' Portage overlay, you get many non-mainstream Haskell packages managed within Portage without having to use cabal-install. In fact, because of this I haven't even known about cabal-install for a long time. However, as always there is a catch. Gentoo is a source distribution, which means that you compile the entire system from scratch. On modern computers this is quite fast, but sometimes it can hammer on your patience. Also it happens that you get compilation errors, in which case you need to resolve the issue (most are easy to solve though). Greets, Ertugrul -- nightmare = unsafePerformIO (getWrongWife = sex) http://blog.ertes.de/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] is anyone familiar with Comprehending Queries by Torsten Grust?
Günther, feel free to contact me when it comes to questions regarding ``Comprehending Queries.'' Understanding database queries as (specific) functional programs is far from being an obsolete endeavor. Quite the contrary. Think LINQ (Microsoft) or Links (Philip Wadler). Or Kleisli (Limsoon Wong). Or monoid comprehensions (Leo Fegaras). Or Ferry (my group at U Tübingen) [1]. Cheers, --Torsten (no `h' in here ;-) [1] http://www.ferry-lang.org/ On Mar 28, 2010, at 16:04 , Günther Schmidt wrote: Hi all, is anyone here familiar with the paper Comprehending Queries by Thorsten Grust? http://kops.ub.uni-konstanz.de/volltexte/1999/312/pdf/312_1.pdf As the paper dates from 1999 I wonder if its content may have been obsoleted by later works or if it still is pretty much current. I ask this because I'm still struggling to put my program with lots of queries on a more sound code base. Günther ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- | Prof. Dr. Torsten Grust torsten.gr...@uni-tuebingen.de | | www-db.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de | | Database Systems - Universität Tübingen (Germany) | ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Are there any gay haskelleres?
Hello, I am one. Best Keith 2010/3/28 Günther Schmidt gue.schm...@web.de: Hi guys, are there any gay haskellers? ... Since the first one was so much fun ;) Günther ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
2010/3/28 Günther Schmidt gue.schm...@web.de: This is definately a point where we will continue to disagree. I found myself assuming that there are no female haskellers and wanted to verify it by asking for data. So what exactly is off-topic for this list? Is unsubscribing from the list the only option to get rid of this kind of utter nonsense posts that contain absolutely zero valuable discussion on _Haskell_? ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Are there any gay haskelleres?
Programming in Haskell certainly makes me feel gay. define gay cheery: bright and pleasant; promoting a feeling of cheer; a cheery hello; a gay sunny room; a sunny smile ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Are there any gay haskelleres?
I'm sure there's some theory about fags being unable to use tools and stuff. It certainly cannot be anything to do with cultural pressure. Perhaps it is easy to mistake a male-dominated field for one that males are intrinsically good at, but really, have a look at the Y chromosome, it does nobody any favours. Gender is hormonal. Me too, by the way. cheers, Fraser. 2010/3/28 Keith Sheppard keiths...@gmail.com Hello, I am one. Best Keith 2010/3/28 Günther Schmidt gue.schm...@web.de: Hi guys, are there any gay haskellers? ... Since the first one was so much fun ;) Günther ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- http://thewhitelion.org/mysister ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
2010/3/28 Pekka Enberg penb...@cs.helsinki.fi: 2010/3/28 Günther Schmidt gue.schm...@web.de: This is definately a point where we will continue to disagree. I found myself assuming that there are no female haskellers and wanted to verify it by asking for data. So what exactly is off-topic for this list? Is unsubscribing from the list the only option to get rid of this kind of utter nonsense posts that contain absolutely zero valuable discussion on _Haskell_? It sounds like you are complaining because people are not talking about what you want them to be talking about. This will happen in large groups. Use a decent mail reader so that such nonsense posts are only one keypress away from the garbage. Luke ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
2010/3/28 Pekka Enberg penb...@cs.helsinki.fi 2010/3/28 Günther Schmidt gue.schm...@web.de: This is definately a point where we will continue to disagree. I found myself assuming that there are no female haskellers and wanted to verify it by asking for data. So what exactly is off-topic for this list? Is unsubscribing from the list the only option to get rid of this kind of utter nonsense posts that contain absolutely zero valuable discussion on _Haskell_? My personal interpretation of this list is that it is for discussions that are potentially interesting to haskell programmers for one of several reasons, including but not limited to a) it's about haskell; Or, b) it's about the haskell community. I would say that this discussion is quite beneficial to the latter category. One of the things that makes Haskell special to me is how thoughtful and inclusive the community was when I discovered it. I would love it see it become more gender inclusive also. And as Luke Palmer suggests, perhaps you can ignore/filter these discussions that you do not enjoy :) Thanks, Jason ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Refactoring of OAuth Library - Need Review
Wrong link. This is the right one: http://projects.bitforest.org/hoauth/dist/doc/html/hoauth/Network-OAuth-Consumer.html ~dsouza On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Diego Souza dso...@bitforest.org wrote: Hi, I've done a complete refactoring of oauth library. This new version is incompatible (in terms of interface) with the previous one. An example of use is available here: http://projects.bitforest.org/hoauth/dist/doc/html/hoauth/Network-OAuth.html Probably the major change is that, along the functions that deal with oauth authentication, there is now an HttpClient typeclass. The library now is able to perform http requests and fully deal with the oauth protocol. I'm planning to upload to hackage soon enough, but before that I'd like to ask if someone could review it and send feedbacks. That would be much appreciated. To get the code: $ darcs get http://projects.bitforest.org/hoauth/ To run tests: $ haskell -isrc/main/haskell -isrc/test/haskell src/test/haskell/Tests.hs Thanks in advance, ~dsouza ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] First Ghent FPG Meeting on April 1, 19h: Program and Final Details
Dear all, We are nearing the First Ghent Functional Programming Group (Ghent FPG) Meeting, and, judging by the number of people that registered on the google form (28!), it will be quite crowded! The final formal program is as follows: 1. Jeroen Janssen - Welcome and short introduction to FP 2. Jasper Van der Jeugt - BlazeHtml: a blazingly fast Html generator in Haskell 3. Tom Schrijvers - Functional Pearl: The Monad Zipper 4. Romain Slootmaekers - Functional Programming at Amplidata (not yet fully confirmed) 5. Denis Defreyne, Pieter De Baets - An introduction to Phunctional Programming 6. Short discussion on the direction of the Ghent Functional Programming Group The meeting takes place on Thursday, April 1, starting at 19h, in meeting room Shannon of the Technicum Building of Ghent University (Sint-Pietersnieuwstraat 41, 9000 Gent). Since the automatic sliding doors will be closed, we will put up a note on the sliding doors on the front left, with a phone number you can call to get in. If you are uncertain whether you'll be able to find the venue, just ask for our cellphone number by e-mail, so you can call us if you get lost. Hope to see you all on Thursday, Bart Coppens (bart.copp...@elis.ugent.be) Jeroen Janssen (jejan...@gmail.com) The Ghent FPG organizing committee. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 01:14:44PM -0700, Jason Dagit wrote: And as Luke Palmer suggests, perhaps you can ignore/filter these discussions that you do not enjoy :) Or just unsubscribe, like I did. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any gay haskelleres?
Hi guys, judging by the responses so far it seems that the gay haskellers have more balls than the female haskellers to come out of the closet. Uhm. Günther Am 28.03.10 19:15, schrieb Günther Schmidt: Hi guys, are there any gay haskellers? ... Since the first one was so much fun ;) Günther ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Haskell.org re-design
This is a post about re-designing the whole Haskell web site. We got a new logo but didn't really take it any further. For a while there's been talk about a new design for the Haskell web site, and there are loads of web pages about Haskell that don't follow a theme consistent with Haskell.org's, probably because it doesn't really have a proper theme. I'm not a designer so take my suggestion with a grain of salt, but something that showed pictures of the latest events and the feeds we currently have would be nice. The feeds let you know that the community is busy, and pictures tell you that we are human and friendly. Anyway, I came up with something to kick off a discussion: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Image:Haskell-homepage-idea.png It answers the basic questions: - What's Haskell? - Where am I on the site? (Answered by a universally recognised tab menu) - What's it like? - How do I learn it? - Does it have an active community? - What's going on in the community? What are they making? - This language is weird. Are they human? -- Yes. The picture of a recent event can fade from one to another with jQuery. The colours aren't the most exciting, but someone who's a professional designer could do a proper design. But I like the idea of the site being like this; really busy but not scarily busy. Subsections of the site could use the header and footer and heading theme, but have a completely different primary-content layout. Probably sub-sections would need a left-nav. Keeping the design simple like this also makes it easy to theme the current Wiki to fit in with it seamlessly. Personally I don't have a problem with the existing site, functionally. It has all the stuff I want to look at. The only stuff that I had issue with as a newbie was finding The One Book I Should Read and The One Download I Should Get. The current site is starting to address this with a Download Haskell button. However, looking at it as a marketing site, it does look pretty lame and messy, and it gives you that impression of Haskell. So if people who own the site are going to redesign it, I thought I'd contribute a bit. Anyway, please contribute your ideas. (Again, I'm not a designer, so you don't need to pick at the aesthetics, a real designer can sort that out.) Cheers! ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any gay haskelleres?
I suppose it's easy to miss the underlying sexism when you aren't affected by it. 2010/3/28 Günther Schmidt gue.schm...@web.de Hi guys, judging by the responses so far it seems that the gay haskellers have more balls than the female haskellers to come out of the closet. Uhm. Günther Am 28.03.10 19:15, schrieb Günther Schmidt: Hi guys, are there any gay haskellers? ... Since the first one was so much fun ;) Günther ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- http://thewhitelion.org/mysister ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell.org re-design
For the most part, I like it, except for... Christopher Done chrisd...@googlemail.com writes: The colours aren't the most exciting, but someone who's a professional designer could do a proper design. But I like the idea of the site being like this; really busy but not scarily busy. ^^ This. It's too boring and depressing with all that grayscale. Why not use the coloured version of the logo ( http://haskell.org/sitewiki/images/a/a8/Haskell-logo-60.png ) and base the colour scheme off that? -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Are there any female Haskellers?
Fran Allen talked about this in Coders at Work (I typed this up quickly so forgive typos): Allen: Recently I realized what was probably the root cause of this: computer science had emerged between 1960 and 1970. And it mostly came out of the engineering schools; some of it came from mathematics. And the engineering schools were mostly all men in that period. And the people IBM was hiring had to meet certain requirements: have certain degrees and have taken certain courses in computer science. And so they were almost all men because they were the ones that satisfied the requirements-because it was a discipline now. The other thing that seemed to have happened is that it was a profession-there were a lot of processes in place and chains of management that implemented the processes and kept everything running smoothly. So it was a very different place. Seibel: I'm pretty sure sexism in society at large was prety rampant in the '50s and '60s. Yet in that period you were working in groups that had lots of women in them. Why was it so open to women then? Allen: Software was the newest-of-the-new stuff that was going on. And it's also probably still to this day considered a soft part of the science. And that's where women gravitated. Early on they were programmers on ENIAC and at Bletchley Park. Women were the computers-that was their name. But in engineering and physics and the harder, older sciences there weren't as many women. It was just divided that way, early on. On 27 March 2010 18:56, Jason Dagit da...@codersbase.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Daniel Fischer daniel.is.fisc...@web.dewrote: -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Günther Schmidt gue.schm...@web.de Gesendet: 27.03.2010 16:14:57 An: haskell-cafe@haskell.org Betreff: [Haskell-cafe] Are there any female Haskellers? Hi all, from the names of people on the list it seems that all users here are males. Just out of curiosity are there any female users here, or are we guys only at the moment? Günther I'm pretty sure that Phil(l?)ip(p?)a Cowderoy is female, I've also seen a couple of other female names here and on the beginners list. (Since Ashley Yakeley seems to be located in the USA, I dare not guess whether Ashley is a man's name or a woman's in this case.) Ashley Yakeley is a man. I work with several female Haskellers. And I've met several others who are at universities or use Haskell on the side. In general, I'd say women in computer science are a minority. I would say mathematics has a higher percentage of women than computer science from my own anecdotal experience. Why are there so few women in computer science? I don't know but it's an interesting question. One professor I was talking to about this subject said he felt that at his university when CS was a part of math there were more women and when it became part of engineering the percentage of women dropped. It's possible that there are gender differences that cause men to be attracted to this field more frequently than women. I'm hesitant to say that's the underlying reason though. I suspect the following, based on conversations I've had with women in the field. For some reason it started out as a male dominated field. Let's assume for cultural reasons. Once it became a male dominated field, us males unknowingly made the work and learning environments somewhat hostile or unattractive to women. I bet I would feel out of place if I were the only male in a class of 100 women. Anyway, those are just observations I've made. Don't take any of it too seriously and I certainly don't mean to offend anyone. I know gender differences can be quite controversial at times. Jason ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any gay haskelleres?
On 28/03/2010 21:38, Günther Schmidt wrote: Hi guys, judging by the responses so far it seems that the gay haskellers have more balls than the female haskellers to come out of the closet. Uhm. So we can expect childish comments for not displaying ourselves on demand now? Good to know. -- fli...@flippac.org ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
Hi Luke, On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 10:10 PM, Luke Palmer lrpal...@gmail.com wrote: It sounds like you are complaining because people are not talking about what you want them to be talking about. This will happen in large groups. Luke Palmer wrote: It sounds like you are complaining because people are not talking about what you want them to be talking about. This will happen in large groups. No, that's not the problem here at all. I don't have any expectations on what people should talk about and am fairly capable in filtering out discussions I am interested in. However, I did assume this was a mostly _technical_ list on _Haskell_ not a list to hold discussions on utterly pointless babbling about Haskell and gender or Haskell and sexual orientation. I mean, I see enough trolling on the other mailing lists I am subscribed to and have absolutely no interest in filling my inbox with this noise. So again: is this discussion on-topic or not? The official description here: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Mailing_lists seems to suggest it's not: Try to keep discussions on-topic. Threads that have lost any relevance to the Haskell language should be moved elsewhere, including tangential or joking posts (though humor in the context of on-topic discussion is welcome.) Pekka ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell.org re-design
On 28 March 2010 22:00, Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.comwrote: ^^ This. It's too boring and depressing with all that grayscale. Why not use the coloured version of the logo ( http://haskell.org/sitewiki/images/a/a8/Haskell-logo-60.png ) and base the colour scheme off that? I tried to do that but I found it difficult to make it look nice (and being honest I don't like those colours). I agree though, and defer to someone with more design talent! ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any gay haskelleres?
Fraser Wilson blancoli...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure there's some theory about fags being unable to use tools and stuff. It certainly cannot be anything to do with cultural pressure. Perhaps it is easy to mistake a male-dominated field for one that males are intrinsically good at, but really, have a look at the Y chromosome, it does nobody any favours. Gender is hormonal. I'd rather look at the Y combinator, which kind of resembles a penis: Y = \ f - (\x - f (x x)) (\x - f (x x)) Greets, Ertugrul -- nightmare = unsafePerformIO (getWrongWife = sex) http://blog.ertes.de/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 10:35:04PM +0200, Matthias Kilian wrote: On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 01:14:44PM -0700, Jason Dagit wrote: And as Luke Palmer suggests, perhaps you can ignore/filter these discussions that you do not enjoy :) Or just unsubscribe, like I did. Tell the truth. You only unsubscribed when you saw me post. ;-) -- Darrin Chandler| Phoenix BSD User Group | MetaBUG dwchand...@stilyagin.com | http://phxbug.org/ | http://metabug.org/ http://www.stilyagin.com/ | Daemons in the Desert | Global BUG Federation ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
On 28/03/10 12:53, Joachim Breitner wrote: Hi, Am Sonntag, den 28.03.2010, 09:04 +0100 schrieb Magnus Therning: I have to say it looks like Debian has gotten their act together somewhat when it comes to Haskel development. Many of the reasons for my deserting Debian seem have been taken care of. so, what is missing for you to come back :-) Well, maybe I should qualify that a bit. There were a few issues with Haskell in Debian in the past. Most noticeably the lack of packages in the standard repos. This seems to have been addressed. The other thing, that bit me at the time, and witch really pushed me over the edge was the lack of speed in adopting new upstream versions of ghc and some of the very basic packages. That Debian has started picking up more packages is noticeable in Hackage. However, an increase in speed wouldn't really be noticeable to a non-Debian user. So you might have improved considerably in that area too... I just wouldn't know :-) /M -- Magnus Therning(OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4) magnus＠therning．org Jabber: magnus＠therning．org http://therning.org/magnus identi.ca|twitter: magthe signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Are there any gay haskelleres?
Günther Schmidt gue.schm...@web.de writes: are there any gay haskellers? Look, Günther, I'll give you credit for trying, but you might as well accept the fact that using Haskell isn't going to get you laid. Which is just as well, since this list is for discussing a certain programming language, and also since discussions like this tend to offend and drive away chauvinist pigs. And we wouldn't want that, would we? So - could we get back on topic, please? -k -- If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: is anyone familiar with Comprehending Queries by Torsten Grust?
Dear Torsten, good grief no, I did not mean that the topic / field was obsolete. In fact most of my posts over the last couple of months are inquiries on this very subject. (Apart from the occasional glitch). Well about EDSL for Relational Algebra. I was very excited when I found your paper and noticed your other works. My question was more, and please don't get this the wrong way, if your findings from over 10 years ago may have been superseded my more recent discoveries or techniques. It will take me a very long time to absorb your paper, in fact I might not even be able to understand it all, but I'll try. But before I do so I wanted to make sure that it's still the state of the art. Best regards Günther Am 28.03.10 21:58, schrieb Torsten Grust: Günther, feel free to contact me when it comes to questions regarding ``Comprehending Queries.'' Understanding database queries as (specific) functional programs is far from being an obsolete endeavor. Quite the contrary. Think LINQ (Microsoft) or Links (Philip Wadler). Or Kleisli (Limsoon Wong). Or monoid comprehensions (Leo Fegaras). Or Ferry (my group at U Tübingen) [1]. Cheers, --Torsten (no `h' in here ;-) [1] http://www.ferry-lang.org/ On Mar 28, 2010, at 16:04 , Günther Schmidt wrote: Hi all, is anyone here familiar with the paper Comprehending Queries by Thorsten Grust? http://kops.ub.uni-konstanz.de/volltexte/1999/312/pdf/312_1.pdf As the paper dates from 1999 I wonder if its content may have been obsoleted by later works or if it still is pretty much current. I ask this because I'm still struggling to put my program with lots of queries on a more sound code base. Günther ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any gay haskelleres?
On 28/03/2010 22:07, Günther Schmidt wrote: Hi Fraser, hi all, one thing I did notice is the total absence of a sense of humor on this list. The only funny thing that on this list was Don't play with your monads ... Yes, us humourless feminists have clearly poisoned the list as a whole. As the Reverend Spooner would have put it, your shining wit is entirely underappreciated. And I certainly will keep doing so and enjoy it. :) While everyone is getting excited and getting their knickers in a twist I have a great time. I point and laugh at them. This is an open admission of trolling, of course. I wonder whether your exaggerated sense of others' behaviour applies elsewhere - did someone grudgingly concede that your jokes were alright once upon a time? It's even more fun to make a joke and see people not getting it, far more so actually. Yeah, funny thing? You're making a joke of yourself as you do it. -- fli...@flippac.org ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any gay haskelleres?
Dear Philippa, I love your posts, they are hilarious! Please send some more. Can't wait for your next one. Günther Am 28.03.10 23:06, schrieb Philippa Cowderoy: On 28/03/2010 21:38, Günther Schmidt wrote: Hi guys, judging by the responses so far it seems that the gay haskellers have more balls than the female haskellers to come out of the closet. Uhm. So we can expect childish comments for not displaying ourselves on demand now? Good to know. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Fwd: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any gay haskelleres?
Also some operators are clearly sexist =, - = etc etc. I don´t kmow if the lack of female haskellers is due to this inpudic exhibition of male domination ;) 2010/3/28 Ertugrul Soeylemez e...@ertes.de Fraser Wilson blancoli...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure there's some theory about fags being unable to use tools and stuff. It certainly cannot be anything to do with cultural pressure. Perhaps it is easy to mistake a male-dominated field for one that males are intrinsically good at, but really, have a look at the Y chromosome, it does nobody any favours. Gender is hormonal. I'd rather look at the Y combinator, which kind of resembles a penis: Y = \ f - (\x - f (x x)) (\x - f (x x)) Greets, Ertugrul -- nightmare = unsafePerformIO (getWrongWife = sex) http://blog.ertes.de/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any gay haskelleres?
Am 28.03.10 23:25, schrieb Ketil Malde: Günther Schmidtgue.schm...@web.de writes: are there any gay haskellers? Look, Günther, I'll give you credit for trying, but you might as well accept the fact that using Haskell isn't going to get you laid. Which is just as well, since this list is for discussing a certain programming language, and also since discussions like this tend to offend and drive away chauvinist pigs. And we wouldn't want that, would we? So - could we get back on topic, please? already on it ;) Günther ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell.org re-design
This looks great! What are the implementation details of having this go live? * Ashley: would you be able to e.g. install an index.html like this, and hang the wiki under it? * How do we allow editing (by trusted users?) -- Don chrisdone: This is a post about re-designing the whole Haskell web site. We got a new logo but didn't really take it any further. For a while there's been talk about a new design for the Haskell web site, and there are loads of web pages about Haskell that don't follow a theme consistent with Haskell.org's, probably because it doesn't really have a proper theme. I'm not a designer so take my suggestion with a grain of salt, but something that showed pictures of the latest events and the feeds we currently have would be nice. The feeds let you know that the community is busy, and pictures tell you that we are human and friendly. Anyway, I came up with something to kick off a discussion: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Image:Haskell-homepage-idea.png It answers the basic questions: • What's Haskell? • Where am I on the site? (Answered by a universally recognised tab menu) • What's it like? • How do I learn it? • Does it have an active community? • What's going on in the community? What are they making? • This language is weird. Are they human? -- Yes. The picture of a recent event can fade from one to another with jQuery. The colours aren't the most exciting, but someone who's a professional designer could do a proper design. But I like the idea of the site being like this; really busy but not scarily busy. Subsections of the site could use the header and footer and heading theme, but have a completely different primary-content layout. Probably sub-sections would need a left-nav. Keeping the design simple like this also makes it easy to theme the current Wiki to fit in with it seamlessly. Personally I don't have a problem with the existing site, functionally. It has all the stuff I want to look at. The only stuff that I had issue with as a newbie was finding The One Book I Should Read and The One Download I Should Get. The current site is starting to address this with a Download Haskell button. However, looking at it as a marketing site, it does look pretty lame and messy, and it gives you that impression of Haskell. So if people who own the site are going to redesign it, I thought I'd contribute a bit. Anyway, please contribute your ideas. (Again, I'm not a designer, so you don't need to pick at the aesthetics, a real designer can sort that out.) Cheers! ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Has Try Haskell! An interactive tutorial in your browser been announced yet?
Hi Benjamin,
Thanks for testing it and providing a detailed report. I've since done
more work on Try Haskell, but not too much. (My job has taken up a
very large amount of my time and energy. I am moving to another one
currently.) I will address your points just to clear it up and maybe
we can discuss where it's going in the future.
On 1 March 2010 12:03, Benjamin L. Russell dekudekup...@yahoo.com wrote:
Apparently, there is a time limit for this tutorial.
I just tried it out again in Safari 4.0.4 on Mac OS X 10.5.8 Leopard,
and the tutorial run by the help command worked perfectly; however,
when I then tried it out again in Firefox 3.5.8, the same tutorial
stopped just after I entered the 'a' : [] expression with the
following error:
Time limit exceeded.
This occurred approximately ten minutes after starting the tutorial in
Safari.
But then I tried the same tutorial approximately four minutes later in
SeaMonkey 2.0.3, and this time the tutorial ran perfectly again.
I have since updated the Time limit exceeded message to be something
more friendly. The cause of this message is that some expressions take
too long to evaluate. Even simple expressions can sometimes take too
long and be killed. To confirm: there is no time limit for the
tutorial.
So then, approximately four minutes after Firefox had returned the above
error message, I returned to Firefox, clicked on the Reset button in the
upper-right corner of the page, and restarted the tutorial. This time,
the tutorial behaved slightly different from before: Earlier, I typed
the following sequence of commands (listed in the first step of the
tutorial):
23*36
reverse hello
At that point, the tutorial had not started automatically. However, for
some reason, this time it did; then, I was able to continue with the
tutorial until completion. Then I started the tutorial again with the
help command, and it workd fine again, too.
This was a bug. The cause is simple; the tutorial picks up the types
returned by the REPL and triggers the right tutorial page. Hitting the
reset button, wrongly, did not reset these hooks. I believe this bug
still exists.
Then, about thirty-eight minutes after starting the second tutorial in
Firefox (during which time I tried to run the tutorial in Camino 2.0.1,
but Camino froze during the auto-update to 2.0.2, and when I manually
updated it to 2.0.2, Camino 2.0.2 froze upon startup as well, so I
finally gave up on trying the tutorial in Camino), I tried out the
tutorial in Opera 10.10.
For some reason, Opera inserted spaces after typing certain characters,
and the spaces could not be deleted without also deleting the character
just before the space as well. Then I entered the above following sequence
of commands again:
23*36
reverse hello
Although the tutorial in Opera returned the correct responses to these
statements, it did not move on to the next step automatically
afterwards, so I had to type help to start the tutorial. However, I
was then able to complete the entire tutorial successfully (although the
extra space bug manifested itself a few times during this tutorial as
well).
I test on Opera 10.01 on Ubuntu Karmic, but I have seen this bug
elsewhere as someone demonstrated problems with Opera to me at
Zurihac. Opera is quite a fiddly browser compared to Firefox, Webkit
and IE.
I have personally developed it based on the following browsers:
Internet Explorer 6 7
Opera 10.01
Chromium 4.0.237.0 (Ubuntu build 31094)
Firefox 3.5.8
But indeed, hopefully I will have more time for testing and
development in the future.
Regarding future work, I hope to integrate Raphael[1] (which I already
did, but is disabled at the moment), exercises the answers to which
are checked by Smallcheck or QuickCheck, access to online feeds a bit
like Yahoo pipes, but one could use Tagsoup, RSS/Atom feeds, etc. to
access some limited set of feeds. I intend on changing the interface
to be like DrScheme, with a code frame and a REPL frame.
I have already added top-level definition of functions, types,
classes, etc. support to the JSON service. For example, here is how we
evaluate an expression, calling the eval method:
http://tryhaskell.org/haskell-eval.json?jsonrpc=2.0method=evalid=1params={expr:24*42}
= {jsonrpc:2.0,id:1,result:{result:1008,type:(Num
t) = t,expr:24*42}}
Then we can provide it a Haskell file with contents: x=1
http://tryhaskell.org/haskell-eval.json?jsonrpc=2.0method=loadid=1params={contents:x
= 1}
= {jsonrpc:2.0,id:1,result:{success:}}
And then evaluate the top level value x:
http://tryhaskell.org/haskell-eval.json?jsonrpc=2.0method=evalid=1params={%22expr%22:%22x%22}
=
{jsonrpc:2.0,id:1,result:{result:1,type:Integer,expr:x}}
The only security measure I take is to parse the module with
Language.Haskell.Parser or whatnot and then strip out imports.
Regarding development, I have uploaded everything to Github:
http://github.com/chrisdone/tryhaskell
And I know
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell.org re-design
On 28 March 2010 22:54, Don Stewart d...@galois.com wrote: This looks great! What are the implementation details of having this go live? * Ashley: would you be able to e.g. install an index.html like this, and hang the wiki under it? * How do we allow editing (by trusted users?) I've emailed Ashley about sorting this out. I'll stick to the way it's currently done, wikimedia template for the home page. I'll just make the index page a special case somehow or make a new index file to pull the necessary bits from the wiki database. Let's go, Ashley! ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell.org re-design
Christopher Done wrote: On 28 March 2010 22:54, Don Stewart d...@galois.com wrote: This looks great! What are the implementation details of having this go live? * Ashley: would you be able to e.g. install an index.html like this, and hang the wiki under it? * How do we allow editing (by trusted users?) I've emailed Ashley about sorting this out. I'll stick to the way it's currently done, wikimedia template for the home page. I'll just make the index page a special case somehow or make a new index file to pull the necessary bits from the wiki database. Let's go, Ashley! Is the front page a wiki page? -- Ashley ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] darcs hacking sprint 4 report
Hi everybody, Here's our report from ZuriHac. It's been also posted to the Darcs blog with a couple of photos stolen from Johan's blog, some Darcs rebase scribbling and a screenshot of Darcsden's intriguing fork-tracking feature... http://blog.darcs.net/2010/03/darcs-hacking-sprint-4-report.html The Fourth Darcs Hacking Sprint took place last weekend (19 to 21 March) as part of the Zurich Haskell Hackathon. We had a very productive sprint, a bit of code written, polished off many key discussions, had a little beer and a lot of fun. Overview == In this sprint, we worked on finishing some performance work for the upcoming Darcs 2.5 release this summer (hashed storage, patch index, global caches, inventory hashing); planning our work for the Darcs 2.6 release next year (smart servers, cache cleanup, darcs rebase) and working with new users of the Darcs library. Issues resolved --- * issue643 darcs send -o output - Guillaume Hoffmann * issue1473 annotate command line - Stefan Wehr * issue1456 portable darcs dist - Guillaume Hoffmann New Darcs Hackers == We're always happy to work with new Darcs developers. At this sprint, we were joined by four new contributors. Guillaume Hoffmann -- Guillaume has been writing our Darcs Weekly News articles for a year now. Over the weekend he got his first taste of Darcs hacking, knocking out three ProbablyEasy bugs (darcs dist internals, darcs send -o UI, darcs apply with gzipped patch bundles). Guillaume reports that he can see himself doing more of this in the future! Steven Keuchel -- Steven worked on a new feature to display the file contents hashed associated with any patch. This makes it easier for third party tools to inspect the patch files behind Darcs. Stefan Wehr and David Leuschner Stefan and David mostly worked on the Darcs Patch Manager, but to warm up, they tackled a couple of ProbablyEasy bugs, particularly a bug in darcs annotate that was affecting Redmine Hacking continued... == Bugfix: Darcs on Windows shares --- Salvatore tracked down the Windows regression on 2.4 that make Darcs not work on windows shares. Performance: Fast darcs annotate Benedikt Schmidt continued his work on the patch index (formerly known as the filecache). The patch index keeps track of which patches affect which files. This index will bring a big boost to darcs annotate performance, particularly for files which are affected by relative small number of patches. Performance: Global cache - Luca continued his work on breaking up the global cache ($HOME/.darcs/cache) into buckets for faster access. Working with Reinier and Petr, Luca has developed an approach to migrating from old style caches to the new style bucketed ones. He has also improved the implementation to use hard links, to avoid disk space doubling and to preserve backwards compatibility with prior versions of Darcs. Windows installer - Salvatore put together a nice Windows installer using the `bamse package http://hackage.haskell.org/package/bamse`_. It looks like we will be able to use this for the planned Darcs 2.5 release this summer. This work will also open the door to nicer integration with Windows tools, for example, using a bundled Tortoise SSH for better experience working with SSH passphrases. Interactive cherry picking -- Florent improved the quality of the Darcs cherry picking code, making it easier to fine tune our user interface and some day support graphical interfaces via the Darcs library. Witnessed list zippers for the win? Interactive diff Florent also started work on adding Darcs's interactive cherry picking to darcs diff, making it possible to choose a set of patches to view as a diff. Performance: Hashed storage completion -- Darcs has a representation of file and directory trees called slurpies. Petr polished off his work to replace the slurpies with his more efficient, general purpose hashed-storage library. Slurpies are going away, and Darcs will be faster for it. He and Ganesh also discussed how to gracefully transition from repositories created before the hashed-storage refactor. Performance: Using tags when writing patches Petr ported work by David Roundy to solve a `scalability regression http://bugs.darcs.net/issue1106`_ in hashed repositories. For darcs commands that write out patches, we had a naive hashing operation that does not account for the fact that patches behind tags cannot be modified. Darcs was unnecessarily traversing the entire sequence of patches
Re: [Haskell-cafe] which version is in the platform
On a related note, I wanted to find out what version of parsec is included in the platform, but that version is not included on this page: http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/contents.html The package links just say 'parsec' and link to the lastest version on hackage. - jeremy On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 8:22 AM, S. Doaitse Swierstra doai...@swierstra.net wrote: On the page: http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/ I am told that the platform includes ghc-6.10.4, but if I click there on the Haskell:batteries included link to get to the page: http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/contents.html its states there that I get 6.12.1? Doaitse ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Magnus Therning wrote: Well, maybe I should qualify that a bit. There were a few issues with Haskell in Debian in the past. Most noticeably the lack of packages in the standard repos. This seems to have been addressed. The other thing, that bit me at the time, and witch really pushed me over the edge was the lack of speed in adopting new upstream versions of ghc and some of the very basic packages. That Debian has started picking up more packages is noticeable in Hackage. However, an increase in speed wouldn't really be noticeable to a non-Debian user. So you might have improved considerably in that area too... I just wouldn't know :-) Above all else, what has changed in Debian wrt Haskell is improved process. Improved process is something that makes handle of new upstream releases far easier than it was before and hence, we should be seeing the benefits of this improved process for many years to come. Erik -- -- Erik de Castro Lopo http://www.mega-nerd.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] which version is in the platform
jeremy: On a related note, I wanted to find out what version of parsec is included in the platform, but that version is not included on this page: http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/contents.html The package links just say 'parsec' and link to the lastest version on hackage. The best way to find out is to look at the 'cabal spec' http://code.haskell.org/haskell-platform/haskell-platform.cabal From which all truth derives. Any thoughts on how to best present this? -- Don ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell.org re-design
On 28 March 2010 23:32, Ashley Yakeley ash...@semantic.org wrote: There was a big competition for the logo, with this blind Condorcet voting and everything, and this is the shape that was picked. But it kind of ran out of steam before colours were decided upon. So I just copied the colours from the Haskell Platform logo... Sure. Maybe the colours are great, I don't know. But I can't get them to work very well, personally. On 28 March 2010 23:25, Ashley Yakeley ash...@semantic.org wrote: Is the front page a wiki page? By the looks of it, yes. If you go to 'Edit this page', you can see that it's made out of wikimedia templates. But that's just a guess. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
2010/03/28 Ertugrul Soeylemez e...@ertes.de However, as always there is a catch. Gentoo is a source distribution, which means that you compile the entire system from scratch. On modern computers this is quite fast, but sometimes it can hammer on your patience. To be fair, Gentoo has a well thought out system for bundling up an installed build and creating a binary package for installation on other nodes. -- Jason Dusek ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] which version is in the platform
Don Stewart d...@galois.com writes: The best way to find out is to look at the 'cabal spec' http://code.haskell.org/haskell-platform/haskell-platform.cabal Which, of course, mentions Haddock 2.7.2 in passing, to the confusion of all... ;-) From which all truth derives. Any thoughts on how to best present this? A list of package names with links to the specific version on Hackage (and maybe a short description of what they are)? -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell-friendly Linux Distribution
Mathijs Kwik wrote: As a developer in 3 languages (ruby java professionally, haskell as hobby) I must say I really prefer just managing this manually, separate from the package manager. I'm running ubuntu LTS (8.04) on production servers. But this would mean that an environment for a language would also be somewhat frozen for at least 2 years, which isn't very useful. When 10.04 gets out with ghc 6.12.1, it will still mean that's the only thing available until 2012, or I need to upgrade the entire OS every 6 months. Not necessarily. I am faced with a similar problem, having over 700 production client machines (administered remotely) in the field running the 8.04 LTS release. Because we use Debian packaging as the only sane way to manage binary distribution to that number of machines, we manage our own repository which is basically a validated version of 8.04, plus validated backports, plus our own packages. Furthermore, all of our own packages are built on an autobuilder to ensure that what is in revision control will actually build from source. The autobuilders all start off with a nearly bare install in a chroot, then install the build dependencies and finally build the package. In order for this to work for our one haskell package, I backported ghc-6.10.4 and a bunch of haskell libraries from Debian Testing so that this one package can be built in the autobuilder. I have also been hearing rumours that the next LTS release 10.04 will be more of a rolling release, where more recent versions of things will be available by enabling backports. snip This might not be a solution for you, it really depends on your needs, but for me, I found it's often useful to control the exact environment an application needs and it gives developers the freedom to run whatever OS they like, which is a huge benefit if you use contractors or if devs want to work from home. I think I found a solution with the same goals as your's, but with a different implementation. Since your machine count is smaller than mine, your scheme probably works better for your situation. For my larger machine count, I would not be happy to trade my scheme for yours :-). Cheers, Erik -- -- Erik de Castro Lopo http://www.mega-nerd.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] which version is in the platform
ivan.miljenovic: Don Stewart d...@galois.com writes: The best way to find out is to look at the 'cabal spec' http://code.haskell.org/haskell-platform/haskell-platform.cabal Which, of course, mentions Haddock 2.7.2 in passing, to the confusion of all... ;-) To the confusion of all, indeed! From which all truth derives. Any thoughts on how to best present this? A list of package names with links to the specific version on Hackage (and maybe a short description of what they are)? Scripting time. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell.org re-design
Christopher Done wrote: On 28 March 2010 23:32, Ashley Yakeley ash...@semantic.org wrote: There was a big competition for the logo, with this blind Condorcet voting and everything, and this is the shape that was picked. But it kind of ran out of steam before colours were decided upon. So I just copied the colours from the Haskell Platform logo... Sure. Maybe the colours are great, I don't know. But I can't get them to work very well, personally. No, you're right, they're ugly colours IMO. On 28 March 2010 23:25, Ashley Yakeley ash...@semantic.org wrote: Is the front page a wiki page? By the looks of it, yes. If you go to 'Edit this page', you can see that it's made out of wikimedia templates. But that's just a guess. I meant, in the redesign, is the intent to make the front page a wiki page, or a special static page? -- Ashley Yakeley ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell.org re-design
ashley: Christopher Done wrote: On 28 March 2010 23:32, Ashley Yakeley ash...@semantic.org wrote: There was a big competition for the logo, with this blind Condorcet voting and everything, and this is the shape that was picked. But it kind of ran out of steam before colours were decided upon. So I just copied the colours from the Haskell Platform logo... Sure. Maybe the colours are great, I don't know. But I can't get them to work very well, personally. No, you're right, they're ugly colours IMO. On 28 March 2010 23:25, Ashley Yakeley ash...@semantic.org wrote: Is the front page a wiki page? By the looks of it, yes. If you go to 'Edit this page', you can see that it's made out of wikimedia templates. But that's just a guess. I meant, in the redesign, is the intent to make the front page a wiki page, or a special static page? I think the goal is an attractive non-wiki page with live content. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Can everyone please update your code to the latest QuickCheck, Parsec, and HaXml this week? Thanks!
Hello, I keep running into issues where I want to use some version of parsec, quickcheck, haxml, etc, in my code, but my code links against a different third party library (e.g. network) which uses a different version of the library (e.g., parsec) than what I want to use, and that makes cabal unhappy. If I use, runhaskell Setup.hs configure, I get warnings like: ~/n-heptane/projects/haskell/web-routes/web-routes-happstack $ runhaskell Setup.hs configure --user Configuring web-routes-happstack-0.18... Warning: This package indirectly depends on multiple versions of the same package. This is highly likely to cause a compile failure. package network-2.2.1.7 requires parsec-2.1.0.1 package hsemail-1.3 requires parsec-2.1.0.1 package happstack-util-0.4.3 requires parsec-2.1.0.1 package happstack-server-0.4.3 requires parsec-2.1.0.1 package web-routes-0.18 requires parsec-3.1.0 Now, the project actually builds and runs fine, because the code in network that uses parsec and the code in my library that uses parsec do not interact at the parsec-level at all. But, cabal install can not handle this, because it (currently) can't *know* that it's actually going to work. Now, parsec and quickcheck are in the haskell platform. So, that should drive a lot of packages to use the same versions. But what about libraries such as HaXml which are not in the platform? Or what about this case where I want parsec 3, even though parsec 2 is in the haskell platform? Any ideas about what should be done? We have this problem with QuickCheck and happstack when people try to cabal install gitit. And I am running into the problem again with the urlt / web-routes library. - jeremy ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell.org re-design
On 29 March 2010 00:08, Don Stewart d...@galois.com wrote: On 28 March 2010 23:25, Ashley Yakeley ash...@semantic.org wrote: Is the front page a wiki page? By the looks of it, yes. If you go to 'Edit this page', you can see that it's made out of wikimedia templates. But that's just a guess. I meant, in the redesign, is the intent to make the front page a wiki page, or a special static page? I think the goal is an attractive non-wiki page with live content. Right -- ideally the index page would be written separately from the Wiki but maybe use its libraries or at least in some way access the wiki database so that the index page can be manipulated through the wiki. Each section is kind of modular anyway. I'm trying out the 1.5 version I got from the mediawiki svn now. A copy of the database sans users would be nice. How big is it? I can construct my own example db but it's nice to work with the real thing. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Can everyone please update your code to the latest QuickCheck, Parsec, and HaXml this week? Thanks!
Jeremy Shaw jer...@n-heptane.com writes: I keep running into issues where I want to use some version of parsec, quickcheck, haxml, etc, in my code, but my code links against a different third party library (e.g. network) which uses a different version of the library (e.g., parsec) than what I want to use, and that makes cabal unhappy. Better (well, OK, maybe not _better_ per se but relevant) question: why isn't QuickCheck usage optional in so many of these libraries? There should be no reason for most people to build the testing functions, etc. in these libraries. -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Sugar for function application
Tillmann Rendel ren...@informatik.uni-marburg.de wrote: Of course, this would need some type hackery à la PrintF to make set accept multiple arguments, and the proliferation of such type hackery may seem unfortunate. On the other hand, the hackery could possibly be encapsulated in a combinator like polyvariadic :: Poly a b c = ([a] - b) - c so that layoutSet can be implemented as layoutSet widget = polyvariadic (set widget). I could think of a layout-based keyword to construct Alternative values, which wouldn't require type hackery. Something like this: acat a b c which would be equivalent to a | b | c Then you could write: layoutSet myButton $ acat [text := Ok] [on action := doSomething] Occasionally this would be very useful for parsers: numericWord = acat try $ 1 $ string one try $ 2 $ string two try $ 3 $ string three This together with layout-based function application could be great syntactical features. Firstly it would be strictly optional, so you could still program without or with less layout, if you prefer. Secondly you could get rid of a number of other keywords this way, most notably the 'if', 'then' and 'else' keywords. Some people like 'then' and 'else'. So instead of completely removing them, you can turn them into functions instead: newtype Then a = Then a newtype Else a = Else a if :: Bool - Then a - Else a - a then :: a - Then a else :: a - Else a if condition $$ then thisIfTrue else thisIfFalse The benefit is that 'if', 'then' and 'else' aren't keywords anymore and can be used for other purposes in narrow scopes. Sometimes this would be useful. Greets Ertugrul -- nightmare = unsafePerformIO (getWrongWife = sex) http://blog.ertes.de/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any gay haskelleres?
I am replying off list. I hope others will do the same. -- Jason Dusek ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] parsec and multiple simultaneous token types
Hello, I have some input which is divided up into segments like this: [foo, hi, there, world] And I want to use parsec to parse the segments. I am looking for a way to be able to use Char parsers on each segment, but also parse the list of segments as a whole. I have an implementation which works, but I am not feeling that satisfied with it. An example parser looks like this: testp :: GenParser String () (Char, String, String) testp = do segment foo st - p2u (char 'h' char 'o') sg - anySegment sg' - anySegment return (st,sg, sg') If you use it to parse [foo, hi, there, world] you get: *Main test [foo,hi,there,world] (segment 2 character 2): unexpected i expecting o This is good -- the error tells you the segment and the offset. The combinators, segment and anySegment match on String tokens. The p2u function converts a Char parser into a String parser. The primary issue is that I can not figure out how to implement p2u so that it works under Parsec 2 and 3 with out changes. The secondary issue is that I feel like the DSL is not that great. I would rather write the above parser like this: testp :: GenParser String () (Char, String, String) testp = do string foo nextSegment char 'h' char 'o' nextSegment sg - many anyChar nextSegment sg' - many anyChar return (st,sg, sg') so, the combinators like 'many' would only see to the end of the current segment. nextSegment would bring the next segment into context (or possibly fail if the current segment was not completely consumed). I could also, perhaps, reimplement anySegment as: anySegment = do s - many anyChar nextSegment return s and write: testp :: GenParser String () (Char, String, String) testp = do string foo nextSegment char 'h' char 'o' nextSegment sg - anySegment sg' - anySegment return (st,sg, sg') I don't see a way to implement this on top of parsec though. Am I missing some clever ideas here? I have attached my code that implements the first method. Any ideas how to make it parsec 2/3 agnostic ? The primary issue is that if I use runParser on the inner Char parser, I need some way to stick a ParseError back into the parent context (with out just converting it to a String and calling fail). I can see how to get/set the inputState, etc, in a portable way, but I don't see how to set the ParseError in a portable way.The attached code requires 3.1.0 because it uses mkPT / runParsecT :( thanks! - jeremy import Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec import Text.Parsec.Prim import Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec.Error segment :: String - GenParser String () String segment x = pToken (const x) (\y - if x == y then Just x else Nothing) anySegment :: GenParser String () String anySegment = pToken (const any string) Just pToken msg f = do pos - getPosition token id (const $ incSourceLine pos 1) f p2u :: GenParser Char () a - GenParser String () a p2u p = mkPT $ \state@(State sInput sPos sUser) - case sInput of (s:ss) - do r - runParsecT p (State s sPos sUser) return (fmap (fmap (fixReply ss)) r) where fixReply :: [String] - (Reply String u a) - (Reply [String] u a) fixReply _ (Error err) = (Error err) fixReply ss (Ok a (State sPos sUser) e) = (Ok a (State ss sPos sUser) e) fixReply ss (Ok a (State s sPos sUser) e) = (Ok a (State (s:ss) sPos sUser) e) test :: IO () test = let segments = [foo, hi, there, world] in case parse testp (show segments) segments of (Left e) - putStrLn $ showParseError e (Right r) - print r testp :: GenParser String () (Char, String, String) testp = do segment foo st - p2u (char 'h' char 'o') sg - anySegment sg' - anySegment return (st,sg, sg') showParseError :: ParseError - String showParseError pErr = let pos= errorPos pErr posMsg = sourceName pos ++ (segment ++ show (sourceLine pos) ++ character ++ show (sourceColumn pos) ++ ): msgs = errorMessages pErr in posMsg ++ showErrorMessages or unknown parse error expecting unexpected end of input msgs ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Can everyone please update your code to the latest QuickCheck, Parsec, and HaXml this week? Thanks!
In the case of happstack, the happstack-util library provided a function that converted QuickCheck unit tests into HUnit unit tests. happstack-util exported this so that the other happstack-* packages could use it as well. We did not actually have the unit tests themselves enabled by default. Though that is actually a problem as well. The theory (at the time) was that every happstack-* package would export its unit tests. The top-level happstack package could then import all the unit tests into a bigger testsuite and run them all. (And the bigger testsuite would be re-exported so that you could include the happstack testsuite in your applications own test suite). From a source code management viewpoint, it is nice to have the unit tests in the package (such as happstack-data) so that we don't have twice as many packages to deal with, and so that the source for the unit tests is included when you get the package from hackage. We should not simply make the unit tests be a compile time flag in the .cabal, because there is no way for the happstack parent package to depend on the version of happstack-data (for example) which has the unit tests enable. So, the only solutions are: 1. always export the unit tests 2. create a separate cabal package for each happstack package which just contains the unit tests. The first option is much easier -- except that it requires QC, which is especially problematic at the moment. So ultimately, we will have to move to the second option I guess. As a work around, we did just make all the QC related stuff enabled via a flag. But it does cause problems when trying to build the test suite in the buildbot because happstack-data gets rebuilt with out the tests enabled :( - jeremy On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 6:35 PM, Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com wrote: Jeremy Shaw jer...@n-heptane.com writes: I keep running into issues where I want to use some version of parsec, quickcheck, haxml, etc, in my code, but my code links against a different third party library (e.g. network) which uses a different version of the library (e.g., parsec) than what I want to use, and that makes cabal unhappy. Better (well, OK, maybe not _better_ per se but relevant) question: why isn't QuickCheck usage optional in so many of these libraries? There should be no reason for most people to build the testing functions, etc. in these libraries. -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Can everyone please update your code to the latest QuickCheck, Parsec, and HaXml this week? Thanks!
On 29 March 2010 11:11, Jeremy Shaw jer...@n-heptane.com wrote: We should not simply make the unit tests be a compile time flag in the .cabal, because there is no way for the happstack parent package to depend on the version of happstack-data (for example) which has the unit tests enable. Yes, this is a problem. especially if this was an option but flags introduce conflicting APIs and two packages want the same package as a dependency but with conflicting compile-time flags. -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any gay haskelleres?
Dear Jason, did you send this message before it was finished? Günther Am 29.03.10 01:58, schrieb Jason Dusek: I am replying off list. I hope others will do the same. -- Jason Dusek ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell.org re-design
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Ashley Yakeley ash...@semantic.org wrote: No, you're right, they're ugly colours IMO. I originally mocked up the logo that we chose, so I'm partial to the grayish-blue that I used. Others probably work, but I think the combination of blues in the one that's used a lot now is awkward. I do like the new design idea, but there are a few places I'd like to nitpick, if nobody minds. - The Register | Login button is awkward; it looks like it's centered with the descenders included, so it's a bit too high. Also, a pipe as a separator is strange. (This same style is used a few other places, too.) - The Haskell Programming Language is a bit long. Perhaps make The/Programming Language be a lot lighter, so that Haskell really stands out. - I doubt we'll end up using that font for the headers (unless somebody is ponying up for a license and wants to use Typekit or so), but the 't' as in Welcome _t_o is very strange. - Under Events, I'd move More to be in line with the prev/next buttons. - Under Latest Packages, I think different formatting could make this read more easily. At the very least, the package name and description should be a different color or weight. I'd move the description onto the same line (wrapping if necessary), but a lighter weight and a lighter gray (same color as the Latest Event?). Just some ideas to think about. -- Jeff Wheeler Undergraduate, Electrical Engineering University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any gay haskelleres?
2010/3/28 Günther Schmidt gue.schm...@web.de: Dear Philippa, I love your posts, they are hilarious! Please send some more. Can't wait for your next one. Can this crap please die, and die now? I don't give a damn who is female, or who is gay, or who is transgendered or of a particular racial background or physically disabled or about any other personal trait of any member of this mailing list. All I care about here is the code and its applications. Grow up. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any gay haskelleres?
G'day all. Am 28.03.10 23:25, schrieb Ketil Malde: Look, Günther, I'll give you credit for trying, but you might as well accept the fact that using Haskell isn't going to get you laid. For what it's worth, I got away with naming a daughter Miranda. Cheers, Andrew Bromage ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] How can I parameterize the Candidate?
Hello, How can I parameterize the type of the following data class so that any type can be a Candidate? type Candidate = String data Poll = Poll [Candidate] [Ballot] My initial thought was to simply put a type variable in place of Candidate, but that clearly won't work: data Poll = Poll [a] [Ballot] Not in scope: type variable `a' For context: I am building a voting library that addresses the issue of polarized American politics by implementing the Virtual Round Robin electoral method with a Maximum Majority Voting algorithm for breaking cycles. The beginnings of the library are available at http://github.com/canadaduane/votelib/blob/master/vote.hs What is a good approach to the parameterized type issue? Thank you, Duane Johnson ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How can I parameterize the Candidate?
On 29 March 2010 13:13, Duane Johnson duane.john...@gmail.com wrote: How can I parameterize the type of the following data class so that any type can be a Candidate? data Poll = Poll [Candidate] [Ballot] data Poll a = Poll [a] [Ballot] data Poll = Poll [a] [Ballot] So close... -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] How can I parameterize the Candidate?
Ah, just a character away. Thank you. Duane On Mar 28, 2010, at 9:21 PM, Ivan Miljenovic wrote: On 29 March 2010 13:13, Duane Johnson duane.john...@gmail.com wrote: How can I parameterize the type of the following data class so that any type can be a Candidate? data Poll = Poll [Candidate] [Ballot] data Poll a = Poll [a] [Ballot] data Poll = Poll [a] [Ballot] So close... -- Ivan Lazar Miljenovic ivan.miljeno...@gmail.com IvanMiljenovic.wordpress.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
Jon Fairbairn wrote: Another (provocative) observation is that most of the women programmers I've known were good at it and thought they might not be, but most of the men claimed to be good at it but were not. I've observed this too, but it's a bit droll. Let: p = proportion of people who think they're good but aren't q = proportion who think they're not good but are M = number of men in CS W = number of women in CS Given that M W, we'll naturally find that p*M q*W if p and q are even remotely comparable, regardless of whether p and q are independent of gender or not. -- Live well, ~wren ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 8:29 PM, wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.org wrote: Jon Fairbairn wrote: Another (provocative) observation is that most of the women programmers I've known were good at it and thought they might not be, but most of the men claimed to be good at it but were not. I've observed this too, but it's a bit droll. Let: p = proportion of people who think they're good but aren't q = proportion who think they're not good but are M = number of men in CS W = number of women in CS Given that M W, we'll naturally find that p*M q*W if p and q are even remotely comparable, regardless of whether p and q are independent of gender or not. I recall going to a PhD defense several years ago about gender differences in computer science. The dissertation is here: http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/dspace/bitstream/1957/4954/1/FinalVersion.pdf A few take-away points I recall from the defense: * The difference between genders is smaller than the difference between individuals * In spreadsheet debugging tasks, women would rate their confidence lower than men * In spreadsheet debugging tasks, women would do at least as well as men (often better) * Men were more likely to jump right in without reading the instructions * Women were more likely to read the instructions and try to understand the task before starting it It's entirely possible that the cases where the women performed significantly better than the men it was largely because they took the time to read the instructions. Otherwise, it seemed like the difference in self-assessed confidence was bigger than any gender difference in measurable performance. In other words, approaches and confidence varied by gender more than results. Also, I might be completely misquoting the results. Best to read the dissertation for yourself if you find the topic interesting. Jason ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
Günther Schmidt wrote: One thing that I keep hearing is I'm not trying to be offensive. I think it's easy to get caught up on not being offensive so that we don't make any progress. It's impossible not to offend people -- but it is possible to take the time to listen and correct problematic behavior and communicate what you've learned to others. One thing I do notice, one starts with a harmless question and it out of the blue it suddenly becomes political. In both ways. Is there really a need for this? Trying to offend (or not) bears no particular relation to causing offense (or not). In particular, claiming you weren't trying to offend is itself likely to offend many feminists. To understand why you should read through http://www.derailingfordummies.com/ Not that you were intending to derail, but because derailing is a fact of social interaction which intentional communities must defend against. Dealing with derailing and similar issues is a fact of life for feminists. And all the women I know in CS or mathematics count themselves as feminists. Your harmless question was, by its very nature, a political question because it touches upon many issues about the presence and role of women within society (the HCafe society in particular). The harmless question gave license to others to make misogynistic comments on this thread, comments you'd now like to distance yourself from accepting culpability for. If the question was really so harmless, surely you wouldn't be so keen to distance yourself from the responses it created. -- Live well, ~wren ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: Are there any female Haskellers?
Jason Dagit wrote: On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 8:29 PM, wren ng thornton w...@freegeek.org wrote: Jon Fairbairn wrote: Another (provocative) observation is that most of the women programmers I've known were good at it and thought they might not be, but most of the men claimed to be good at it but were not. I've observed this too, but it's a bit droll. Let: p = proportion of people who think they're good but aren't q = proportion who think they're not good but are M = number of men in CS W = number of women in CS Given that M W, we'll naturally find that p*M q*W if p and q are even remotely comparable, regardless of whether p and q are independent of gender or not. I recall going to a PhD defense several years ago about gender differences in computer science. The dissertation is here: http://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/dspace/bitstream/1957/4954/1/FinalVersion.pdf A few take-away points I recall from the defense: Oh sure :) I was merely stating that the null hypothesis is sufficient to account for the observations made. (As it almost always is for psycho/social studies of gender.) There's also an interesting result that there's an inverse correlation between actual skill and claimed skill (regardless of the particular skill, and AKAIR regardless of gender). But surely this discussion is more appropriate to cognitive-c...@haskell.org -- Live well, ~wren ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
