RE: [hlcoders] Question about the EULA again
Dave, are you from Infinity/Talking about Infinity that used to have their site at http://www.games-fusion.net/~infinity and at one stage http://cgi-bin.spaceports.com/~usmc/wow ? Michael Shimmins The Absconder Effect (http://www.tae-mod.com) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of alfred Sent: Monday, 7 January 2002 5:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Question about the EULA again Legally (IANAL) I don't think its an issue. If you don't steal there property (i.e copyright) and if you don't pass yourself off as doing someone elses work its okay. Morally its a different story. MOD programmers spend months coding and drawing and thinking (and sleeping) to perfect their mods. If you corrupt a mod think how it makes them feel... I guess the politite thing to do would be to contact the mod author and tell them what you want to do. I bet most won't mind (just word the email real carefully). omega wrote: why would you have to worry about that? releasing dat files containing info to spawn stuff on any map for your mod isnt any worse that releasing a bot for another mod that you didn't make. besides, if you're not recompiling the map, what can you get in trouble for? making your mod with with anything else? =) -omega Blackened Interactive http://www.nofadz.com/blackened IRC: irc.gamesnet.net channel: #blackened-interactive Assistant Coder, Underhive (http://www.underhive.com) - Original Message - *From:* Dave R. Meyers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Sunday, January 06, 2002 4:34 AM *Subject:* [hlcoders] Question about the EULA again Using the newly finished Infinity mod, I can remove all the specified entities from any map, then go back in and place what ever stuff I want. So I can run any map under a mod that supports the files written buy Infinity, so my question is this: If I want create 'dat' files for Counter Strike maps, Op4 map, and TFC maps, are there any legal issues I need to address first? I do not need to modify or distribute the maps, just the 'dat' file. Any concerns??? Dave -- Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Question about the EULA again
This was kinda of my thinking, but I E-mailed many people, and have not gotten any word back. From any mod teams. I know people who code CS, TFC, and OP4 watch this list, so I hoped that by post this question they might respond. Also the thing you forgot to add below, is the hours spent making maps, and placing the gear in just the right place. Thanks for the kind words though. 8) Dave - Original Message - From: alfred [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Question about the EULA again Legally (IANAL) I don't think its an issue. If you don't steal there property (i.e copyright) and if you don't pass yourself off as doing someone elses work its okay. Morally its a different story. MOD programmers spend months coding and drawing and thinking (and sleeping) to perfect their mods. If you corrupt a mod think how it makes them feel... I guess the politite thing to do would be to contact the mod author and tell them what you want to do. I bet most won't mind (just word the email real carefully). omega wrote: ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] file reading from...
when using c++ file streams to detect end of file
you can do something like
ifstream if;
if.open("filename", flags);
while(!in.eof() )
{
read lots of stuff in
}
in.close();
i am not fluent with c's file openings and such but
i have managed to open files read from it etc but what i now require is how to
check using c style syntax whether its at end of file or not?
So basically what is the c style end of file check
i can use in my while and if loops??? botman anyman :) ???
thanks peoples.
- Original Message -
From:
Varlock
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 8:15
PM
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] file reading
from...
[CODE]
#include stdio.h
// not sure which one or both of these two includes you
need
#include stdlib.h
FILE *pFile = NULL;
void MyFunction( void )
{
pFile = fopen( "filename.txt",
"r" ); // "r" means
read-mode
if( !pFile )
//
error
char line[1024];
fgets( line, 1024, pFile
);
fclose( pFile );
}
[/CODE]
This code will open
"filename.txt" in read-mode. You should do something if it doesn't load
properly (where there's the // error comment). Then it reads the FIRST 1024
CHARACTERSor UNTIL A NEWLINE IS REACHED. The fgets function
automatically reads up to the number of characters you pass it (in this case
1024) or until a newline character is reached. Now you can use line as you
wish. Finally, the code closes the file.
- Varlock
- Original Message -
From:
Christopher Long
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 7:39
PM
Subject: [hlcoders] file reading
from...
gEngfuncs.COM_ParseFile takes tokens from the
file and with it i can keep grabbing tokens but each token is delimited by
white space.
char* pFile =
gEngfuncs.COM_LoadFile("commandmenu.txt", 5, NULL);
pFile points to commandmenus contents so i have
a pointer to whats in the commandmenu.txt but thats all of it
:/.
What i was after was if there is a way to grab
from a file one line at a time until it hits the newline character
'\n'.
i have done it so far with grabbing chunks one
at a time checking each character to see if its a new line then setting back
the location read... it works but i don't like the way i have done it
:(.
All i was after is if there is a better way to
read one line at a time till the end line char is reached. or do i have
to start including fstream.h to start doing this type of stuff?
also another thing is i was after what each of
the variables COM_LoadFile takes is?
("commandmenu.txt", 5, NULL);
i realise the first string is the file to draw
it from
dunno what the 5 is??? someone enlighten
me
and from looking i am guess where NULL is you
can send a length variable to
have returned the length of the file or
something?? but i am not sure only NULL seems to be used
everywhere.
thanks to anyone that can
help.
Re: [hlcoders] file reading from...
It depends on the type of file and how you're reading it.
Assuming you're reading a text file:
int main()
{
char buf[1024];
FILE *fptr;
fptr = fopen( file.txt, rt );
if( fptr == NULL )
{
// file didnt open, so exit
printf( Unable to open file.\n );
exit(1);
}
buf = fgets( buf, 1024, fptr );
while( buf != NULL )
{
// do something with that 1024 byte block, eg print it
printf( %s, buf );
buf = fgets( buf, 1024, fptr );
}
return 0;
}
That should do quite nicely, providing i havent made any mistakes :)
- Original Message -
From: Christopher Long [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] file reading from...
when using c++ file streams to detect end of file you can do something like
ifstream if;
if.open(filename, flags);
while(!in.eof() )
{
read lots of stuff in
}
in.close();
i am not fluent with c's file openings and such but i have managed to open
files read from it etc but what i now require is how to check using c style
syntax whether its at end of file or not?
So basically what is the c style end of file check i can use in my while and
if loops??? botman anyman :) ???
thanks peoples.
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Re: [hlcoders] file reading from...
when using c++ file streams to detect end of file you can do something
like
ifstream if;
if.open(filename, flags);
while(!in.eof() )
{
read lots of stuff in
}
in.close();
i am not fluent with c's file openings and such but i have managed to open
files read from it etc but what i now require is how to check using c
style
syntax whether its at end of file or not?
So basically what is the c style end of file check i can use in my while
and
if loops??? botman anyman :) ???
Many of the C file I/O functions return -1 indicating error (or end of
file). fread() will return 0 items read on end of file. fgets() returns
NULL on end of file. See the documentation for your C/C++ compiler for
details.
Jeffrey botman Broome
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RE: [hlcoders] Question about the EULA again
Dave, are you from Infinity/Talking about Infinity that used to have their site at http://www.games-fusion.net/~infinity and at one stage http://cgi-bin.spaceports.com/~usmc/wow ? Shimms: The Spaceports mod was Intensity, not Infinity. -James Corvidae Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Administrator, Wavelength Forums (http://www.planethalflife.com/wavelength) Co-Leader / Coder, Underhive (http://www.underhive.com) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] file reading from...
Stuart Walsh wrote:
char buf[1024];
Technically an array is not quite the same as a pointer, it's more like
a pointer constant. So assigning to it, like this
buf = fgets( buf, 1024, fptr );
is not legal. You need to have a separate pointer variable, or simpler,
just test the result directly:
while( fgets(buf,1024,fptr) != NULL )
{
// do something with that 1024 byte block, eg print it
printf( %s, buf );
}
Some (or even most) compilers will let you get away with it, but
some may object, or even give unexpected behavior (for instance, an
optimizer might decide that the test condition is a constant, and run
the loop forever).
Ralph Hartley
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Re: [hlcoders] file reading from...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
- - Original Message -
From: Ralph Hartley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] file reading from...
Stuart Walsh wrote:
char buf[1024];
Technically an array is not quite the same as a pointer, it's more
like a pointer constant. So assigning to it, like this
buf = fgets( buf, 1024, fptr );
is not legal. You need to have a separate pointer variable, or
simpler, just test the result directly:
while( fgets(buf,1024,fptr) != NULL )
{
// do something with that 1024 byte block, eg print it
printf( %s, buf );
}
Some (or even most) compilers will let you get away with it, but
some may object, or even give unexpected behavior (for instance, an
optimizer might decide that the test condition is a constant, and
run the loop forever).
Very true, was just to illustrate the point of returning NULL though
:)
You'd be better doing it dynamically anyway, ie char *buf = new
char[1024]; or the malloc() equivalent.
msvc++ will let you get away with a lot of things it shouldn't...
Stu
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h0JHM7PpQsh3zimr67PoDZfA
=8XB/
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Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
Am Montag, 7. Januar 2002 01:17 schrieben Sie: Why can't it just be available on the CD itself (in a datafile). I'm sick of losing my cases and therefore not being able to play the game again. That's not feasible. CDs aren't burned but pressed, which means that all the CDs are exactly the same. Otherwise, the prices would rocket sky-high. cu, Prefect ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
i've always wondered why, during production, cd keys are not hard coded onto the cd-rom itself...instead of a machine that prints out stickers with unique key's, have a machine that writes bytes onto a specific location on the cd-rom itself... i know there are upsides and downsides to this...copying the cd = copying the key...but then it isnt immediately visible, and has to be viewed by inserting the cd-rom itself into a drive...etc... /quit rambling _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
we could have product activation like micrsoft with the phones personnaly manned by valve - Original Message - From: Ack Doh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play?? i've always wondered why, during production, cd keys are not hard coded onto the cd-rom itself...instead of a machine that prints out stickers with unique key's, have a machine that writes bytes onto a specific location on the cd-rom itself... i know there are upsides and downsides to this...copying the cd = copying the key...but then it isnt immediately visible, and has to be viewed by inserting the cd-rom itself into a drive...etc... /quit rambling _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
I feel like the whole thread of this conversation is going the wrong way. Ppl keep wanting to make more and more complex/technical solutions to this problem of cheating. Signatures, IDs, etc. etc. etc. It's very much like if someone breaks into your house - so you put bars on the window, and then they get in the front door, so you replace it with steel - and then they pick the lock - so you add an fingerprint/retinal scanner - so they then come down your chimney - so you close the fireplace - so then they use a chainsaw to come through the walls - so you side the house with steel - so they use the chainsaw on the roof - so you Well you get the idea. I have no fix, but I do have a feeling that the harder walls = better security is not the way to solve this problem. You're all thinking very comfortably inside the box - need to think outside the box. IMHO. Tom wrote: we could have product activation like micrsoft with the phones personnaly manned by valve - Original Message - From: Ack Doh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play?? i've always wondered why, during production, cd keys are not hard coded onto the cd-rom itself...instead of a machine that prints out stickers with unique key's, have a machine that writes bytes onto a specific location on the cd-rom itself... i know there are upsides and downsides to this...copying the cd = copying the key...but then it isnt immediately visible, and has to be viewed by inserting the cd-rom itself into a drive...etc... /quit rambling _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
I feel like the whole thread of this conversation is going the wrong way. Ppl keep wanting to make more and more complex/technical solutions to this problem of cheating. Signatures, IDs, etc. etc. etc. It's very much like if someone breaks into your house - so you put snip I have no fix, but I do have a feeling that the harder walls = better security is not the way to solve this problem. You're all thinking very comfortably inside the box - need to think outside the box. True. More complicated solutions lead to more problems. Also anything requiring changes to CD keys or WON authorization is probably right out since Valve/Sierra can't go back and modify the millions of CDs and keys that are already out there and, as it's already been pointed out, cheaters already have hundreds of CD keys anyway. If you invalidate all of those keys, they will still be able to get more. Get away from the mindset of banning someone and they're gone forever. Like Tim stated, it's a difficult problem to solve (and might be unsolvable). Whatever solutions get implemented, you should realize that ANYTHING done on the client can be hacked/patched/bypassed. So spending lots of time on complex schemes to validate/authenticate/monitor a client might be easily bypassed in 5 minutes by a simple hack to the client executables or DLL files (which you have NO control over once they are downloaded to the client). I think the best solution would have to be something that is ACTIVE. Something that monitors players FROM THE SERVER and something that is able to dynamically update itself as new cheat information becomes available. These types of systems are NOT trivial to design or implement (getting back to the complicated solutions again). The only other alternatives are, to quit playing the game and move on to something else (not good if you REALLY love playing the game), let the cheaters cheat and play the game fairly (not taking it so seriously that it pisses you off), or always play on a password protected server where you know everyone else and know that everyone who plays on that server feels the same way about cheaters as you do. Jeffrey botman Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain. -Mr. Scott (Star Trek III) Sorry for the Star Trek quote, but I thought it appropriate :-) Instead of Banning WON IDs, why not allow only certain WON IDs to be permitted (basically, require a person to register with a server before playing). In the MOTD, have an e-mail address were a person could find out how to join and what is expected of the members. At this point, you prevent the player from joining the game (or make him a spectator). When player registers, have a password and his WON ID. When they connect, they must enter their password to join the server. If the member violates the rules, remove his WON from the list. If a person wants to make his server wide open, he could set a server variable to allow an open server. This does not prevent cheating, but give a mechanism to keep violators out. It should be relatively simple to code, and hack-proof (unless they hack the server computer itself). You could even encrypt the WONID/password file. -Scott Tim Holt wrote: I feel like the whole thread of this conversation is going the wrong way. Ppl keep wanting to make more and more complex/technical solutions to this problem of cheating. Signatures, IDs, etc. etc. etc. It's very much like if someone breaks into your house - so you put bars on the window, and then they get in the front door, so you replace it with steel - and then they pick the lock - so you add an fingerprint/retinal scanner - so they then come down your chimney - so you close the fireplace - so then they use a chainsaw to come through the walls - so you side the house with steel - so they use the chainsaw on the roof - so you Well you get the idea. I have no fix, but I do have a feeling that the harder walls = better security is not the way to solve this problem. You're all thinking very comfortably inside the box - need to think outside the box. IMHO. Tom wrote: we could have product activation like micrsoft with the phones personnaly manned by valve - Original Message - From: Ack Doh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play?? i've always wondered why, during production, cd keys are not hard coded onto the cd-rom itself...instead of a machine that prints out stickers with unique key's, have a machine that writes bytes onto a specific location on the cd-rom itself... i know there are upsides and downsides to this...copying the cd = copying the key...but then it isnt immediately visible, and has to be viewed by inserting the cd-rom itself into a drive...etc... /quit rambling _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 - -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 - - - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 9:21 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play?? The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain. -Mr. Scott (Star Trek III) Sorry for the Star Trek quote, but I thought it appropriate :-) Instead of Banning WON IDs, why not allow only certain WON IDs to be permitted (basically, require a person to register with a server before playing). In the MOTD, have an e-mail address were a person could find out how to join and what is expected of the members. At this point, you prevent the player from joining the game (or make him a spectator). When player registers, have a password and his WON ID. When they connect, they must enter their password to join the server. If the member violates the rules, remove his WON from the list. If a person wants to make his server wide open, he could set a server variable to allow an open server. This does not prevent cheating, but give a mechanism to keep violators out. It should be relatively simple to code, and hack-proof (unless they hack the server computer itself). You could even encrypt the WONID/password file. Or, a variation on this. Do what Tribes2 does. It's a very good way of doing it. First time you run the game online, you register your cd key along with your player name, so when you come along in future you enter your username and password and are allowed on the servers. It works very well, and it only relies on you keeping your password secure. Also, the cd key only need be entereed once. If you reinstall, all you need is your user/pass. If someone tries to register with your cd key, they can't. Stu Tim Holt wrote: I feel like the whole thread of this conversation is going the wrong way. Ppl keep wanting to make more and more complex/technical solutions to this problem of cheating. Signatures, IDs, etc. etc. etc. It's very much like if someone breaks into your house - so you put bars on the window, and then they get in the front door, so you replace it with steel - and then they pick the lock - so you add an fingerprint/retinal scanner - so they then come down your chimney - so you close the fireplace - so then they use a chainsaw to come through the walls - so you side the house with steel - so they use the chainsaw on the roof - so you Well you get the idea. I have no fix, but I do have a feeling that the harder walls = better security is not the way to solve this problem. You're all thinking very comfortably inside the box - need to think outside the box. IMHO. Tom wrote: we could have product activation like micrsoft with the phones personnaly manned by valve - Original Message - From: Ack Doh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play?? i've always wondered why, during production, cd keys are not hard coded onto the cd-rom itself...instead of a machine that prints out stickers with unique key's, have a machine that writes bytes onto a specific location on the cd-rom itself... i know there are upsides and downsides to this...copying the cd = copying the key...but then it isnt immediately visible, and has to be viewed by inserting the cd-rom itself into a drive...etc... /quit rambling _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. - -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPDoR+BQ7CLlBS2gGEQIX7ACg2Y/zvTlsv4Z+iMXg2paRFImVOWMAn3eA 5X1beLIzdTTQx7s+LPic7/hm =GzVF - -END PGP SIGNATURE- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPDoSARQ7CLlBS2gGEQKDfACeL/TJ+804OPw4Hrs/FHGUK6xHPPkAoLQN kf3yzs2468paL3OyO5e8OW4J =1hRl -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
You can already achieve this system by using Admin Mod and putting wonid's in the user.ini file :) This is actually the stratergy that quite a few server ops I know have taken. Couple this with the MySQL enabled version of Admin Mod and you can have web page sign-ups and other nice easy interfaces. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain. -Mr. Scott (Star Trek III) Sorry for the Star Trek quote, but I thought it appropriate :-) Instead of Banning WON IDs, why not allow only certain WON IDs to be permitted (basically, require a person to register with a server before playing). In the MOTD, have an e-mail address were a person could find out how to join and what is expected of the members. At this point, you prevent the player from joining the game (or make him a spectator). When player registers, have a password and his WON ID. When they connect, they must enter their password to join the server. If the member violates the rules, remove his WON from the list. If a person wants to make his server wide open, he could set a server variable to allow an open server. This does not prevent cheating, but give a mechanism to keep violators out. It should be relatively simple to code, and hack-proof (unless they hack the server computer itself). You could even encrypt the WONID/password file. -Scott Tim Holt wrote: I feel like the whole thread of this conversation is going the wrong way. Ppl keep wanting to make more and more complex/technical solutions to this problem of cheating. Signatures, IDs, etc. etc. etc. It's very much like if someone breaks into your house - so you put bars on the window, and then they get in the front door, so you replace it with steel - and then they pick the lock - so you add an fingerprint/retinal scanner - so they then come down your chimney - so you close the fireplace - so then they use a chainsaw to come through the walls - so you side the house with steel - so they use the chainsaw on the roof - so you Well you get the idea. I have no fix, but I do have a feeling that the harder walls = better security is not the way to solve this problem. You're all thinking very comfortably inside the box - need to think outside the box. IMHO. Tom wrote: we could have product activation like micrsoft with the phones personnaly manned by valve - Original Message - From: Ack Doh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play?? i've always wondered why, during production, cd keys are not hard coded onto the cd-rom itself...instead of a machine that prints out stickers with unique key's, have a machine that writes bytes onto a specific location on the cd-rom itself... i know there are upsides and downsides to this...copying the cd = copying the key...but then it isnt immediately visible, and has to be viewed by inserting the cd-rom itself into a drive...etc... /quit rambling _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders -- Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Instead of Banning WON IDs, why not allow only certain WON IDs to be permitted (basically, require a person to register with a server before playing). That is what Adminmod offers. But if you read the hlds and hlds_linux lists, you'll notice that running a closed server isn't very common with server admins. When they connect, they must enter their password to join the server. That part could be much easier and safer if Valve could offer some functions to do so in the server (and client). Florian. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
The problem with any kind of membership required to play system is that you are not going to get cheaters on those sites in the first place. My bet is that cheaters want to hop onto public servers, be relatively anonymous, and kick some butt via cheating. I would love to see some stats on how many servers your average player plays on. I personally play DoD on about 2 - both with admin mod. If cheaters had that profile, then it would be easier to catch 'em. But I bet you the more you cheat, the more servers you play on over the course of time. Thoughts? Florian Zschocke wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Instead of Banning WON IDs, why not allow only certain WON IDs to be permitted (basically, require a person to register with a server before playing). That is what Adminmod offers. But if you read the hlds and hlds_linux lists, you'll notice that running a closed server isn't very common with server admins. When they connect, they must enter their password to join the server. That part could be much easier and safer if Valve could offer some functions to do so in the server (and client). Florian. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
Cool! I have not used Admin Mod, so I did not know about that feature. Does it require the user to have a password, so someone does not hijack a WON ID? alfred wrote: You can already achieve this system by using Admin Mod and putting wonid's in the user.ini file :) This is actually the stratergy that quite a few server ops I know have taken. Couple this with the MySQL enabled version of Admin Mod and you can have web page sign-ups and other nice easy interfaces. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain. -Mr. Scott (Star Trek III) Sorry for the Star Trek quote, but I thought it appropriate :-) Instead of Banning WON IDs, why not allow only certain WON IDs to be permitted (basically, require a person to register with a server before playing). In the MOTD, have an e-mail address were a person could find out how to join and what is expected of the members. At this point, you prevent the player from joining the game (or make him a spectator). When player registers, have a password and his WON ID. When they connect, they must enter their password to join the server. If the member violates the rules, remove his WON from the list. If a person wants to make his server wide open, he could set a server variable to allow an open server. This does not prevent cheating, but give a mechanism to keep violators out. It should be relatively simple to code, and hack-proof (unless they hack the server computer itself). You could even encrypt the WONID/password file. -Scott Tim Holt wrote: I feel like the whole thread of this conversation is going the wrong way. Ppl keep wanting to make more and more complex/technical solutions to this problem of cheating. Signatures, IDs, etc. etc. etc. It's very much like if someone breaks into your house - so you put bars on the window, and then they get in the front door, so you replace it with steel - and then they pick the lock - so you add an fingerprint/retinal scanner - so they then come down your chimney - so you close the fireplace - so then they use a chainsaw to come through the walls - so you side the house with steel - so they use the chainsaw on the roof - so you Well you get the idea. I have no fix, but I do have a feeling that the harder walls = better security is not the way to solve this problem. You're all thinking very comfortably inside the box - need to think outside the box. IMHO. Tom wrote: we could have product activation like micrsoft with the phones personnaly manned by valve - Original Message - From: Ack Doh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play?? i've always wondered why, during production, cd keys are not hard coded onto the cd-rom itself...instead of a machine that prints out stickers with unique key's, have a machine that writes bytes onto a specific location on the cd-rom itself... i know there are upsides and downsides to this...copying the cd = copying the key...but then it isnt immediately visible, and has to be viewed by inserting the cd-rom itself into a drive...etc... /quit rambling _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders -- Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
you provide wonid (or username)/password pairs in the config file. The user then has to authenticate himself with the server by having the password in his setinfo buffer when they join. You can make the password null however to skip the checking part :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cool! I have not used Admin Mod, so I did not know about that feature. Does it require the user to have a password, so someone does not hijack a WON ID? alfred wrote: You can already achieve this system by using Admin Mod and putting wonid's in the user.ini file :) This is actually the stratergy that quite a few server ops I know have taken. Couple this with the MySQL enabled version of Admin Mod and you can have web page sign-ups and other nice easy interfaces. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain. -Mr. Scott (Star Trek III) Sorry for the Star Trek quote, but I thought it appropriate :-) Instead of Banning WON IDs, why not allow only certain WON IDs to be permitted (basically, require a person to register with a server before playing). In the MOTD, have an e-mail address were a person could find out how to join and what is expected of the members. At this point, you prevent the player from joining the game (or make him a spectator). When player registers, have a password and his WON ID. When they connect, they must enter their password to join the server. If the member violates the rules, remove his WON from the list. If a person wants to make his server wide open, he could set a server variable to allow an open server. This does not prevent cheating, but give a mechanism to keep violators out. It should be relatively simple to code, and hack-proof (unless they hack the server computer itself). You could even encrypt the WONID/password file. -Scott Tim Holt wrote: I feel like the whole thread of this conversation is going the wrong way. Ppl keep wanting to make more and more complex/technical solutions to this problem of cheating. Signatures, IDs, etc. etc. etc. It's very much like if someone breaks into your house - so you put bars on the window, and then they get in the front door, so you replace it with steel - and then they pick the lock - so you add an fingerprint/retinal scanner - so they then come down your chimney - so you close the fireplace - so then they use a chainsaw to come through the walls - so you side the house with steel - so they use the chainsaw on the roof - so you Well you get the idea. I have no fix, but I do have a feeling that the harder walls = better security is not the way to solve this problem. You're all thinking very comfortably inside the box - need to think outside the box. IMHO. Tom wrote: we could have product activation like micrsoft with the phones personnaly manned by valve - Original Message - From: Ack Doh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play?? i've always wondered why, during production, cd keys are not hard coded onto the cd-rom itself...instead of a machine that prints out stickers with unique key's, have a machine that writes bytes onto a specific location on the cd-rom itself... i know there are upsides and downsides to this...copying the cd = copying the key...but then it isnt immediately visible, and has to be viewed by inserting the cd-rom itself into a drive...etc... /quit rambling _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders -- Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders -- Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cool! I have not used Admin Mod, so I did not know about that feature. Does it require the user to have a password, so someone does not hijack a WON ID? If you choose to set one up, then yes. But you can also leave it out. Currently the security model isn't the best since the password has to bet in the client's setinfo buffer. Adminmod will delete it from there once the user got authenticated. We were hoping for Valve to provide some better way to check a users authentcation to make it safer. Florian. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
Tim Holt wrote: The problem with any kind of membership required to play system is that you are not going to get cheaters on those sites in the first place. Is that a problem or the solution? :-) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
This is the gated community model. Only for us - they need not apply :^) alfred wrote: you provide wonid (or username)/password pairs in the config file. The user then has to authenticate himself with the server by having the password in his setinfo buffer when they join. You can make the password null however to skip the checking part :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cool! I have not used Admin Mod, so I did not know about that feature. Does it require the user to have a password, so someone does not hijack a WON ID? alfred wrote: You can already achieve this system by using Admin Mod and putting wonid's in the user.ini file :) This is actually the stratergy that quite a few server ops I know have taken. Couple this with the MySQL enabled version of Admin Mod and you can have web page sign-ups and other nice easy interfaces. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain. -Mr. Scott (Star Trek III) Sorry for the Star Trek quote, but I thought it appropriate :-) Instead of Banning WON IDs, why not allow only certain WON IDs to be permitted (basically, require a person to register with a server before playing). In the MOTD, have an e-mail address were a person could find out how to join and what is expected of the members. At this point, you prevent the player from joining the game (or make him a spectator). When player registers, have a password and his WON ID. When they connect, they must enter their password to join the server. If the member violates the rules, remove his WON from the list. If a person wants to make his server wide open, he could set a server variable to allow an open server. This does not prevent cheating, but give a mechanism to keep violators out. It should be relatively simple to code, and hack-proof (unless they hack the server computer itself). You could even encrypt the WONID/password file. -Scott Tim Holt wrote: I feel like the whole thread of this conversation is going the wrong way. Ppl keep wanting to make more and more complex/technical solutions to this problem of cheating. Signatures, IDs, etc. etc. etc. It's very much like if someone breaks into your house - so you put bars on the window, and then they get in the front door, so you replace it with steel - and then they pick the lock - so you add an fingerprint/retinal scanner - so they then come down your chimney - so you close the fireplace - so then they use a chainsaw to come through the walls - so you side the house with steel - so they use the chainsaw on the roof - so you Well you get the idea. I have no fix, but I do have a feeling that the harder walls = better security is not the way to solve this problem. You're all thinking very comfortably inside the box - need to think outside the box. IMHO. Tom wrote: we could have product activation like micrsoft with the phones personnaly manned by valve - Original Message - From: Ack Doh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play?? i've always wondered why, during production, cd keys are not hard coded onto the cd-rom itself...instead of a machine that prints out stickers with unique key's, have a machine that writes bytes onto a specific location on the cd-rom itself... i know there are upsides and downsides to this...copying the cd = copying the key...but then it isnt immediately visible, and has to be viewed by inserting the cd-rom itself into a drive...etc... /quit rambling _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders -- Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please
Re: [hlcoders] Question about the EULA again
i did somethin like that for quake2 a long time ago. didnt release it tho. and then someone else did it and released that too =) oh the fun stuff. it was lotsa fun going thru the q2 maps and putting stuff there that wasnt supposed to be. hehe -omega Blackened Interactive http://www.nofadz.com/blackened IRC: irc.gamesnet.net channel: #blackened-interactive Assistant Coder, Underhive (http://www.underhive.com) - Original Message - From: Dave R. Meyers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Question about the EULA again Nope. Infinity was originally developed and created by Jeff Jammer Meyer. (not a relative). The way it was setup, you could start a map in HL, and enter edit mode, and begin removing and/or placing any weapon, ammo, item, and Info_player_deathmatch points. Save the file, then start up Infinity without edit mode on, and play it like standard HL, except that you have items in diffrent places. Also random weapon, and ammo spawns, so you never knew what type of weapon or ammo wouldspawn there next. He stopped the project right around the 1100 patch, mainly due to time requirements. He had helped work onOZ Deathmatch, so Oz had support for it built in, so I revived the project. I have since added quite abit, and learned alot about keyvalues and what they can be used for. Making items too. If anyone thinks this sounds usful, and would like the code to add to your own mod, just let me know. I am also working on releasing it as an open source mod Dave ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
Feel free to throw out ideas (I am sure people will address their good and bad features :) There a lots of ways to curb cheating. Another technical but non-PC based solution would be to send a wireless video camera (or keyboard logger) to every user and then monitor them. It would be effective, but not economical. Another option is social. Make cheating uncool. I am not a psyc so I have no idea how to do this effectively but I believe it would be impossible anyway. Unlike the real world, the internet is anonymous (well, not technically, but in reality it is for us plebs). If someone can't be punished for their behaviour there is no feedback to them to make them alter their behaviour. There is no dis-incentive to cheat. Also, you cannot tell the difference between a cheater and a non-cheater (not absolutely, they could always have an uber cheat...). Now, if the internet coupled people to ip's (don't laugh, people are suggesting this as a way of controlling piracy and p0rn), then you could excert some social control. But until them I believe you are doomed. You could limit the distribution of the game to only those who you can trust. That would make it safe. Problem is that it would really kill the sales of the game Ah, I have an idea. In the PGP world their is the idea of key-signing parties where you meet people and sign each others public keys. This provides a web of trust between you and someone who wants to verify your key. They can use a friends public key (which they trust) to verify that their friend signed your key, so your key must be kosha. How about implementing this idea in HL. Have a web of trust were people sign other players they trust and believe to be non-cheaters. Then you setup servers and you can seed it with certain keys that you trust. Then people who have been signed by that key (or by a chain of keys even) can get in. Cheaters will still exist, but they would be excluded from your server as (hopefully) no one will sign their identity as being good. This concept requires a revocation list as well, so people can turn evil and get away with it. How is that for out of the box eh? Tim Holt wrote: I feel like the whole thread of this conversation is going the wrong way. Ppl keep wanting to make more and more complex/technical solutions to this problem of cheating. Signatures, IDs, etc. etc. etc. It's very much like if someone breaks into your house - so you put bars on the window, and then they get in the front door, so you replace it with steel - and then they pick the lock - so you add an fingerprint/retinal scanner - so they then come down your chimney - so you close the fireplace - so then they use a chainsaw to come through the walls - so you side the house with steel - so they use the chainsaw on the roof - so you Well you get the idea. I have no fix, but I do have a feeling that the harder walls = better security is not the way to solve this problem. You're all thinking very comfortably inside the box - need to think outside the box. IMHO. Tom wrote: we could have product activation like micrsoft with the phones personnaly manned by valve - Original Message - From: Ack Doh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play?? i've always wondered why, during production, cd keys are not hard coded onto the cd-rom itself...instead of a machine that prints out stickers with unique key's, have a machine that writes bytes onto a specific location on the cd-rom itself... i know there are upsides and downsides to this...copying the cd = copying the key...but then it isnt immediately visible, and has to be viewed by inserting the cd-rom itself into a drive...etc... /quit rambling _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders -- Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play??
read This concept requires a revocation list as well, so people can'T turn evil and get away with it. NOT This concept requires a revocation list as well, so people can turn evil and get away with it. ;) alfred wrote: Feel free to throw out ideas (I am sure people will address their good and bad features :) There a lots of ways to curb cheating. Another technical but non-PC based solution would be to send a wireless video camera (or keyboard logger) to every user and then monitor them. It would be effective, but not economical. Another option is social. Make cheating uncool. I am not a psyc so I have no idea how to do this effectively but I believe it would be impossible anyway. Unlike the real world, the internet is anonymous (well, not technically, but in reality it is for us plebs). If someone can't be punished for their behaviour there is no feedback to them to make them alter their behaviour. There is no dis-incentive to cheat. Also, you cannot tell the difference between a cheater and a non-cheater (not absolutely, they could always have an uber cheat...). Now, if the internet coupled people to ip's (don't laugh, people are suggesting this as a way of controlling piracy and p0rn), then you could excert some social control. But until them I believe you are doomed. You could limit the distribution of the game to only those who you can trust. That would make it safe. Problem is that it would really kill the sales of the game Ah, I have an idea. In the PGP world their is the idea of key-signing parties where you meet people and sign each others public keys. This provides a web of trust between you and someone who wants to verify your key. They can use a friends public key (which they trust) to verify that their friend signed your key, so your key must be kosha. How about implementing this idea in HL. Have a web of trust were people sign other players they trust and believe to be non-cheaters. Then you setup servers and you can seed it with certain keys that you trust. Then people who have been signed by that key (or by a chain of keys even) can get in. Cheaters will still exist, but they would be excluded from your server as (hopefully) no one will sign their identity as being good. This concept requires a revocation list as well, so people can turn evil and get away with it. How is that for out of the box eh? Tim Holt wrote: I feel like the whole thread of this conversation is going the wrong way. Ppl keep wanting to make more and more complex/technical solutions to this problem of cheating. Signatures, IDs, etc. etc. etc. It's very much like if someone breaks into your house - so you put bars on the window, and then they get in the front door, so you replace it with steel - and then they pick the lock - so you add an fingerprint/retinal scanner - so they then come down your chimney - so you close the fireplace - so then they use a chainsaw to come through the walls - so you side the house with steel - so they use the chainsaw on the roof - so you Well you get the idea. I have no fix, but I do have a feeling that the harder walls = better security is not the way to solve this problem. You're all thinking very comfortably inside the box - need to think outside the box. IMHO. Tom wrote: we could have product activation like micrsoft with the phones personnaly manned by valve - Original Message - From: Ack Doh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] ogc required to play?? i've always wondered why, during production, cd keys are not hard coded onto the cd-rom itself...instead of a machine that prints out stickers with unique key's, have a machine that writes bytes onto a specific location on the cd-rom itself... i know there are upsides and downsides to this...copying the cd = copying the key...but then it isnt immediately visible, and has to be viewed by inserting the cd-rom itself into a drive...etc... /quit rambling _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders -- Alfred Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list
