Re: [hlds] Roughly 2 weeks out from the MyM update...

[Tohru Adachi]

It's going to be curated by us, so we will be able to remove bad servers.

I highly recommend joining us on the discord, we need as many community 
owners as we can in on this


On 26/07/2016 23:34, Phillip Vector wrote:
How will you handle when the tags don't match up with what the server 
does? If some of the community cheated to get onto the main game list 
years ago, what's to stop them from misreporting the tags now?


On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Joe P > wrote:


To get everyone caught up on what has been happening on the discord:

We have come up with a general plan to greatly improve the
community server experience for users and get many more interested.

1. Create a website for players to find the community servers they
want to play on - Sort by community, tags, gamemode, etc

2. Support this with map workshop integration - give players a way
to connect to servers playing the maps they've subscribed to, and
give server owners an easier way to download and host these maps
as well as mods and gamemodes.

3. Promote community servers in general, both because we
personally think they're great and because they're indispensable
assets to large parts of the TF2 community

4. Developing videos and other rhetoric to support the effort to
bring community servers back in full force

If you would like to join this conversation, please come join us
on the discord!

https://discord.gg/6Ccr4




On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Robert Paulson
> wrote:

This update may not kill your servers right away because it is
still summer vacation. Right now there is a shakeup in
community players with some communities closing, and a few
players favoriting your server when casual mode wasn't working
properly for a week. But as you have noticed yourself servers
now seem to be prone to suddenly emptying out. When summer
vacation ends, people will not so easily refill your server
and those new players won't last forever. It is now impossible
to compete with Valve on vanilla servers now that people can
only get ranked on them.

Now we all have to run 32 slot instant respawn spam-fests like
No-Heroes and every other weird plugin... which are the very
reasons that people on Reddit and Steam complain about.

MOTD ad companies aren't at the mercy of the TF team anymore
unlike the rest of us here, they've already diversified into
other games such as CS:GO, Gmod, Minecraft. They will keep
offering TF2 advertisements until the very end.

Trying to hype up community servers won't do anything. Half of
the community server owners here hate the other half, as you
can see by Mr. Olsen here who never fails to falsely suggest
that servers with ads are the cause of every community killing
update.

Community servers used to have most of the players now, but
now we are a small minority due to years of being locked out
of traffic, so trying to get the TF team to panic by sheer
number of complaints is impossible.

It is up to the TF team to realize that they cannot copy
Overwatch and CS:GO to success. They had strong community
servers and now they are throwing the last of them away and
doing a bait and switch on people that bought the game to
play/host their own servers.

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Re: [hlds] Roughly 2 weeks out from the MyM update...

[Tim Anderson]

How will this be any different from gametracker.com? It seems like anyone
that will want to use your list is someone that is already comfortable with
using the server browser.

How will you know if someone is impersonating another community to leech
off their popularity and then getting them banned unfairly?

And most importantly, how can we be sure that you will remain impartial and
not secretly boost 8chan servers or lower your competition?

In places like /r/tf2 and spuf, you can already see the favoritism where
they have a "good" community server list and strangely it is missing some
of the most (if not the most) popular tf2 servers.
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Re: [hlds] Roughly 2 weeks out from the MyM update...

[Tim Anderson]

This doesn't really address my concerns. You or maybe some other server
owner (if successful) will have massive power in deciding where all the
players go. You still control who gets listed/delisted and shown in what
order, or what tags will be made or not made. I don't think it is safe to
assume this list will remain unbiased given how biased /r/tf2 and spuf are
towards the servers they are associated with.

And without a plan to get people too lazy to use the server browser to
start using yours instead, all you are going to do is end up with the same
small pool of players who already know how to use the server browser. This
is probably not possible without Valve inserting whatever server finding
idea you have into the game itself.

Without solving these 2 issues, I don't think this will be successful at
all.

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 7:56 PM, Rowedahelicon <
theoneando...@rowedahelicon.com> wrote:

> We figure the best fair / logical approach to this is provide the user
> base a list of tags and providing any important info to the user so they
> can make an educated guess if they like a server or not. We decided trying
> to rate good and bad servers won't do anything positive because our opinion
> on what is good or bad could be too flexible. It's better to just let the
> userbase decide and give them as much information as possible. Some users
> don't mind ads for example, some users hate mods or custom maps. If we tell
> people what is good and what isn't, no one is going to bother listening.
>
>
> As far as impersonations go, we already have a plan to authenticate who
> actually owns a server so no tomfoolery can happen. That all said, we're
> still mostly doing talks and planning and etc. Anyone is free to hop in and
> contribute / add in their two cents, and of course we're all here too
> reading the emails.
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
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Re: [hlds] Roughly 2 weeks out from the MyM update...

[Rowedahelicon]

With this in mind, we'll go over all of our notes together and get a better
explanation of how exactly we're trying to set this up

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 11:26 PM, Tim Anderson 
wrote:

> This doesn't really address my concerns. You or maybe some other server
> owner (if successful) will have massive power in deciding where all the
> players go. You still control who gets listed/delisted and shown in what
> order, or what tags will be made or not made. I don't think it is safe to
> assume this list will remain unbiased given how biased /r/tf2 and spuf are
> towards the servers they are associated with.
>
> And without a plan to get people too lazy to use the server browser to
> start using yours instead, all you are going to do is end up with the same
> small pool of players who already know how to use the server browser. This
> is probably not possible without Valve inserting whatever server finding
> idea you have into the game itself.
>
> Without solving these 2 issues, I don't think this will be successful at
> all.
>
> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 7:56 PM, Rowedahelicon <
> theoneando...@rowedahelicon.com> wrote:
>
>> We figure the best fair / logical approach to this is provide the user
>> base a list of tags and providing any important info to the user so they
>> can make an educated guess if they like a server or not. We decided trying
>> to rate good and bad servers won't do anything positive because our opinion
>> on what is good or bad could be too flexible. It's better to just let the
>> userbase decide and give them as much information as possible. Some users
>> don't mind ads for example, some users hate mods or custom maps. If we tell
>> people what is good and what isn't, no one is going to bother listening.
>>
>>
>> As far as impersonations go, we already have a plan to authenticate who
>> actually owns a server so no tomfoolery can happen. That all said, we're
>> still mostly doing talks and planning and etc. Anyone is free to hop in and
>> contribute / add in their two cents, and of course we're all here too
>> reading the emails.
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>>
>
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>


-- 
*Matthew (Rowedahelicon) Robinson*
Web Designer / Artist / Writer
Website - http://www.rowedahelicon.com/
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Re: [hlds] Roughly 2 weeks out from the MyM update...

[Scandreid]

We talked about a lot of those issues tonight - we decided that rather than
curation it's probably better to go with a tagging system (e.g crits,
nocrits, votecrits; no ads, ads, video ads; stock maps, some custom maps,
etc etc etc loads of potential options here) and let the community decide
for themselves what they are and aren't interested in. Maybe with a way to
leave feedback on "is this server using accurate tags?" (and ofc may also
require additional spot checks from whoever). MAYBE also with a way to
rate/review servers, something that has strengths and drawbacks. (The whole
thing pretty much started last night and is in extremely early stages and
is still taking shape, lots still to decide/discuss/see what's possible.)

That's the complex end of it, vague plan atm is that people first accessing
the website are greeted by a big shiny option saying "are you here for a
'normal' game or for a custom gamemode?" or something similarly accesible.
We know accesibility + ease of use will be a big thing as this'll be used
by a lot of people to whom server browsers are foreign.

Also, plan is for the other main boon of it to be map workshop integration
- i.e you can log in through steam, it checks for custom maps you've
subscribed to in the workshop and then sends you to a reasonably active
server playing one of your subscribed maps. Or something similar, details
are far from being hammered out but the people working on it think it can
work. Point is there's loads of enthusiasm for playing/trying out custom
maps people come across in the workshop but currently no easy way to
actually play a game on them, if we can help facilitate that that'd be
awesome for the community and mapmakers alike.

Basically everything is in *extremely* early development and up for
discussion (and has been discussed in a depth not reflected in this hlds
thread), like others have said please join in the discord if you've got
questions/want to see what's going on/want to help out (if only so we're
not hijacking this thread and spamming everyone's inboxes!)

On 27 July 2016 at 03:45, Tim Anderson  wrote:

> How will this be any different from gametracker.com? It seems like anyone
> that will want to use your list is someone that is already comfortable with
> using the server browser.
>
> How will you know if someone is impersonating another community to leech
> off their popularity and then getting them banned unfairly?
>
> And most importantly, how can we be sure that you will remain impartial
> and not secretly boost 8chan servers or lower your competition?
>
> In places like /r/tf2 and spuf, you can already see the favoritism where
> they have a "good" community server list and strangely it is missing some
> of the most (if not the most) popular tf2 servers.
>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
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Re: [hlds] Roughly 2 weeks out from the MyM update...

[Jordan Olling]

I would be interested in a website for searching TF2 servers and games. I
have no strong feelings about ads, as long as they don't interrupt
gameplay, and I enjoy playing on custom maps, but not so much the crazy
"deathmatch" or social maps/servers.

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 7:56 PM, Rowedahelicon <
theoneando...@rowedahelicon.com> wrote:

> We figure the best fair / logical approach to this is provide the user
> base a list of tags and providing any important info to the user so they
> can make an educated guess if they like a server or not. We decided trying
> to rate good and bad servers won't do anything positive because our opinion
> on what is good or bad could be too flexible. It's better to just let the
> userbase decide and give them as much information as possible. Some users
> don't mind ads for example, some users hate mods or custom maps. If we tell
> people what is good and what isn't, no one is going to bother listening.
>
>
> As far as impersonations go, we already have a plan to authenticate who
> actually owns a server so no tomfoolery can happen. That all said, we're
> still mostly doing talks and planning and etc. Anyone is free to hop in and
> contribute / add in their two cents, and of course we're all here too
> reading the emails.
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
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Re: [hlds] Roughly 2 weeks out from the MyM update...

[Rowedahelicon]

We figure the best fair / logical approach to this is provide the user base
a list of tags and providing any important info to the user so they can
make an educated guess if they like a server or not. We decided trying to
rate good and bad servers won't do anything positive because our opinion on
what is good or bad could be too flexible. It's better to just let the
userbase decide and give them as much information as possible. Some users
don't mind ads for example, some users hate mods or custom maps. If we tell
people what is good and what isn't, no one is going to bother listening.


As far as impersonations go, we already have a plan to authenticate who
actually owns a server so no tomfoolery can happen. That all said, we're
still mostly doing talks and planning and etc. Anyone is free to hop in and
contribute / add in their two cents, and of course we're all here too
reading the emails.
___
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Re: [hlds] Roughly 2 weeks out from the MyM update...

[Phillip Vector]

How will you handle when the tags don't match up with what the server does?
If some of the community cheated to get onto the main game list years ago,
what's to stop them from misreporting the tags now?

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Joe P  wrote:

> To get everyone caught up on what has been happening on the discord:
>
> We have come up with a general plan to greatly improve the community
> server experience for users and get many more interested.
>
> 1. Create a website for players to find the community servers they want to
> play on - Sort by community, tags, gamemode, etc
>
> 2. Support this with map workshop integration - give players a way to
> connect to servers playing the maps they've subscribed to, and give server
> owners an easier way to download and host these maps as well as mods and
> gamemodes.
>
> 3. Promote community servers in general, both because we personally think
> they're great and because they're indispensable assets to large parts of
> the TF2 community
>
> 4. Developing videos and other rhetoric to support the effort to bring
> community servers back in full force
>
> If you would like to join this conversation, please come join us on the
> discord!
>
> https://discord.gg/6Ccr4
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Robert Paulson 
> wrote:
>
>> This update may not kill your servers right away because it is still
>> summer vacation. Right now there is a shakeup in community players with
>> some communities closing, and a few players favoriting your server when
>> casual mode wasn't working properly for a week. But as you have noticed
>> yourself servers now seem to be prone to suddenly emptying out. When summer
>> vacation ends, people will not so easily refill your server and those new
>> players won't last forever. It is now impossible to compete with Valve on
>> vanilla servers now that people can only get ranked on them.
>>
>> Now we all have to run 32 slot instant respawn spam-fests like No-Heroes
>> and every other weird plugin... which are the very reasons that people on
>> Reddit and Steam complain about.
>>
>> MOTD ad companies aren't at the mercy of the TF team anymore unlike the
>> rest of us here, they've already diversified into other games such as
>> CS:GO, Gmod, Minecraft. They will keep offering TF2 advertisements until
>> the very end.
>>
>> Trying to hype up community servers won't do anything. Half of the
>> community server owners here hate the other half, as you can see by Mr.
>> Olsen here who never fails to falsely suggest that servers with ads are the
>> cause of every community killing update.
>>
>> Community servers used to have most of the players now, but now we are a
>> small minority due to years of being locked out of traffic, so trying to
>> get the TF team to panic by sheer number of complaints is impossible.
>>
>> It is up to the TF team to realize that they cannot copy Overwatch and
>> CS:GO to success. They had strong community servers and now they are
>> throwing the last of them away and doing a bait and switch on people that
>> bought the game to play/host their own servers.
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>>
>>
>
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Re: [hlds] Roughly 2 weeks out from the MyM update...

[Joe P]

To get everyone caught up on what has been happening on the discord:

We have come up with a general plan to greatly improve the community server
experience for users and get many more interested.

1. Create a website for players to find the community servers they want to
play on - Sort by community, tags, gamemode, etc

2. Support this with map workshop integration - give players a way to
connect to servers playing the maps they've subscribed to, and give server
owners an easier way to download and host these maps as well as mods and
gamemodes.

3. Promote community servers in general, both because we personally think
they're great and because they're indispensable assets to large parts of
the TF2 community

4. Developing videos and other rhetoric to support the effort to bring
community servers back in full force

If you would like to join this conversation, please come join us on the
discord!

https://discord.gg/6Ccr4




On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Robert Paulson 
wrote:

> This update may not kill your servers right away because it is still
> summer vacation. Right now there is a shakeup in community players with
> some communities closing, and a few players favoriting your server when
> casual mode wasn't working properly for a week. But as you have noticed
> yourself servers now seem to be prone to suddenly emptying out. When summer
> vacation ends, people will not so easily refill your server and those new
> players won't last forever. It is now impossible to compete with Valve on
> vanilla servers now that people can only get ranked on them.
>
> Now we all have to run 32 slot instant respawn spam-fests like No-Heroes
> and every other weird plugin... which are the very reasons that people on
> Reddit and Steam complain about.
>
> MOTD ad companies aren't at the mercy of the TF team anymore unlike the
> rest of us here, they've already diversified into other games such as
> CS:GO, Gmod, Minecraft. They will keep offering TF2 advertisements until
> the very end.
>
> Trying to hype up community servers won't do anything. Half of the
> community server owners here hate the other half, as you can see by Mr.
> Olsen here who never fails to falsely suggest that servers with ads are the
> cause of every community killing update.
>
> Community servers used to have most of the players now, but now we are a
> small minority due to years of being locked out of traffic, so trying to
> get the TF team to panic by sheer number of complaints is impossible.
>
> It is up to the TF team to realize that they cannot copy Overwatch and
> CS:GO to success. They had strong community servers and now they are
> throwing the last of them away and doing a bait and switch on people that
> bought the game to play/host their own servers.
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
>
>
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[hlds] Killing Floor 2 - Update 1040 Live

[Jared]

Hey Everyone,


A required update to Killing Floor 2 servers is now available.  The 
patch notes are:



Bug fixes:

 * Ammo pickups now re-spawn during the boss wave


Balance changes:

 * Versus mode
 o   Human Team spawns with armor in Wave 1

--
Jared Creasy
Community Relations
Tripwire Interactive

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