from:"Gerald Ardito"

Thanks for the help last night on the Arduino plugin.
I know what I need to do.

And now, another question. I have been working with the plugin for We Do
robots. The plugin is installed and the palette is where it is supposed to
be. But, the We Do does not respond to the program.

When I look at the Turtle Arts plugin page (
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Turtle_Art/Plugins), I am directed
to this link:
https://github.com/itdaniher/WeDoMore/tree/master/udev

to download directions for setting up permissions. However, there are two
files there and I am not sure what to do with them.

I would appreciate any help you can provide.

Thanks.
Gerald

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
 gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:
  Walter,
 
  Thanks for the amazingly quick response.
  I see TurtleBot. I would like to learn how to create my own spin, so
 please
  do walk me through it.

 The easiest thing to do is to:
 (1) clone the TA project*
 (2) load the plugins you are interested in
 (3) run setup.py dist_xo to generate a new .xo bundle

 * git clone git://git.sugarlabs.org/turtleart/mainline.git

 It may be useful to change the version number, for example, 160.1
 instead of 160 in activity/activity.info

  I will work more with the Launchpad. So far, it seems very much like the
  Arduino. Once I know more, I will start to talk to you about requirements
  for the plugin.

 OK. No hurry as I have my hands full at the moment.

  Thanks.
  Gerald
 
 
  On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
  gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:
   Hello.
  
   I have been playing with the Turtle Blocks plugins for Follow Me, We
   Do Robots, Lego Mindstorms, and Arduino. They installed perfectly in
   Turtle Blocks (as expected).
  
   I have two questions:
   1. I will need to install Turtle Blocks and these plugins on 25-50
   XO-1s. Do I have to do the plugins one by one on each machine?
 
  TurtleBot comes with all of the above plugins pre-installed.
  It is also possible to create a special spin of Turtle Art with just
  the plugins you want (several deployments do this and I could walk you
  through the process)
 
   2. How do I go about requesting plug in(s) for the TI Launchpad?
 
  I need to know more about how to talk to the TI Launchpad and what
  sorts of interactions between it and TA you are looking for.
 
  -walter
  
   Thanks.
   Gerald
   ___
   IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
   IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
   http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
 
 
 
  --
  Walter Bender
  Sugar Labs
  http://www.sugarlabs.org
 
 



 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Turtle Blocks question

Walter,

Thanks. Sorry if this is elementary. So, I download both files on the XO,
and then run the rules script?

Gerald

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 2:00 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
 gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:
  Thanks for the help last night on the Arduino plugin.
  I know what I need to do.
 
  And now, another question. I have been working with the plugin for We Do
  robots. The plugin is installed and the palette is where it is supposed
 to
  be. But, the We Do does not respond to the program.
 
  When I look at the Turtle Arts plugin page
  (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Turtle_Art/Plugins), I am
 directed
  to this link:
  https://github.com/itdaniher/WeDoMore/tree/master/udev
 
  to download directions for setting up permissions. However, there are two
  files there and I am not sure what to do with them.

 99-lego-WeDo.rules are the rules and install_driver.sh is the script
 to run to install them.

 -walter

 
  I would appreciate any help you can provide.
 
  Thanks.
  Gerald
 
  On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
  gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:
   Walter,
  
   Thanks for the amazingly quick response.
   I see TurtleBot. I would like to learn how to create my own spin, so
   please
   do walk me through it.
 
  The easiest thing to do is to:
  (1) clone the TA project*
  (2) load the plugins you are interested in
  (3) run setup.py dist_xo to generate a new .xo bundle
 
  * git clone git://git.sugarlabs.org/turtleart/mainline.git
 
  It may be useful to change the version number, for example, 160.1
  instead of 160 in activity/activity.info
 
   I will work more with the Launchpad. So far, it seems very much like
 the
   Arduino. Once I know more, I will start to talk to you about
   requirements
   for the plugin.
 
  OK. No hurry as I have my hands full at the moment.
 
   Thanks.
   Gerald
  
  
   On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Walter Bender 
 walter.ben...@gmail.com
   wrote:
  
   On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
   gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello.
   
I have been playing with the Turtle Blocks plugins for Follow Me,
 We
Do Robots, Lego Mindstorms, and Arduino. They installed perfectly
 in
Turtle Blocks (as expected).
   
I have two questions:
1. I will need to install Turtle Blocks and these plugins on 25-50
XO-1s. Do I have to do the plugins one by one on each machine?
  
   TurtleBot comes with all of the above plugins pre-installed.
   It is also possible to create a special spin of Turtle Art with just
   the plugins you want (several deployments do this and I could walk
 you
   through the process)
  
2. How do I go about requesting plug in(s) for the TI Launchpad?
  
   I need to know more about how to talk to the TI Launchpad and what
   sorts of interactions between it and TA you are looking for.
  
   -walter
   
Thanks.
Gerald
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
  
  
  
   --
   Walter Bender
   Sugar Labs
   http://www.sugarlabs.org
  
  
 
 
 
  --
  Walter Bender
  Sugar Labs
  http://www.sugarlabs.org
 
 



 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Turtle Blocks question

Walter,

Thanks for clarifying.
I am not sure of the interest either. Mine may be an unusual case. I have
We Dos and Mindstorms and Arduinos and Launchpads and so I am trying to
test them all. I imagine I will reduce the number of tools shortly.

Does that make sense?

Gerald

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 Speaking of WeDo, I have a decent handle on supporting multiple
 devices at once, but I am curious as to (1) there is sufficient
 interest; and (2) if there are insights into how best present multiple
 devices to the user.

 -walter

 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Turtle Blocks question

Alan,

I am using XO-1 build 12.1.0.

Thanks.
Gerald

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
alan...@hotmail.com wrote:

  Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 14:00:35 -0400
  From: walter.ben...@gmail.com
  To: gerald.ard...@gmail.com
  CC: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; support-g...@laptop.org
  Subject: Re: [IAEP] Turtle Blocks question

 
  On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
  gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:
   Thanks for the help last night on the Arduino plugin.
   I know what I need to do.
  
   And now, another question. I have been working with the plugin for We
 Do
   robots. The plugin is installed and the palette is where it is
 supposed to
   be. But, the We Do does not respond to the program.
  
   When I look at the Turtle Arts plugin page
   (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Turtle_Art/Plugins), I am
 directed
   to this link:
   https://github.com/itdaniher/WeDoMore/tree/master/udev
  
   to download directions for setting up permissions. However, there are
 two
   files there and I am not sure what to do with them.
 
  99-lego-WeDo.rules are the rules and install_driver.sh is the script
  to run to install them.

 The file 99-lego-WeDo.rules needs to be in: /etc/udev/rules.d (in the
 most linux versions)
 In the new Fedora changes for: /etc/udev...

 The Sugar 0.94? and newest have that rule included.
 I know that in Sugar 0.96 the rule is in place..


 
  -walter
 
  
   I would appreciate any help you can provide.
  
   Thanks.
   Gerald
  
   On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Walter Bender 
 walter.ben...@gmail.com
   wrote:
  
   On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
   gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:
Walter,
   
Thanks for the amazingly quick response.
I see TurtleBot. I would like to learn how to create my own spin, so
please
do walk me through it.
  
   The easiest thing to do is to:
   (1) clone the TA project*
   (2) load the plugins you are interested in
   (3) run setup.py dist_xo to generate a new .xo bundle
  
   * git clone git://git.sugarlabs.org/turtleart/mainline.git
  
   It may be useful to change the version number, for example, 160.1
   instead of 160 in activity/activity.info
  
I will work more with the Launchpad. So far, it seems very much
 like the
Arduino. Once I know more, I will start to talk to you about
requirements
for the plugin.
  
   OK. No hurry as I have my hands full at the moment.
  
Thanks.
Gerald
   
   
On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Walter Bender 
 walter.ben...@gmail.com
wrote:
   
On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello.

 I have been playing with the Turtle Blocks plugins for Follow
 Me, We
 Do Robots, Lego Mindstorms, and Arduino. They installed
 perfectly in
 Turtle Blocks (as expected).

 I have two questions:
 1. I will need to install Turtle Blocks and these plugins on
 25-50
 XO-1s. Do I have to do the plugins one by one on each machine?
   
TurtleBot comes with all of the above plugins pre-installed.
It is also possible to create a special spin of Turtle Art with
 just
the plugins you want (several deployments do this and I could walk
 you
through the process)
   
 2. How do I go about requesting plug in(s) for the TI Launchpad?
   
I need to know more about how to talk to the TI Launchpad and what
sorts of interactions between it and TA you are looking for.
   
-walter

 Thanks.
 Gerald
 ___
 IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
 IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
   
   
   
--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
   
   
  
  
  
   --
   Walter Bender
   Sugar Labs
   http://www.sugarlabs.org
  
  
 
 
 
  --
  Walter Bender
  Sugar Labs
  http://www.sugarlabs.org
  ___
  IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
  IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
  http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

 ___
 IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
 IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Turtle Blocks question

Alan,

I did, but the We Do is not responding to the Turtle Art project.

Gerald

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 2:16 PM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
alan...@hotmail.com wrote:

 That version have the rules.. You only need install the plugin an try!

 --
 From: gerald.ard...@gmail.com
 Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 14:09:56 -0400
 To: alan...@hotmail.com

 CC: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; support-g...@laptop.org
 Subject: Re: [IAEP] Turtle Blocks question

 Alan,

 I am using XO-1 build 12.1.0.

 Thanks.
 Gerald

 On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
 alan...@hotmail.com wrote:

  Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 14:00:35 -0400
  From: walter.ben...@gmail.com
  To: gerald.ard...@gmail.com
  CC: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; support-g...@laptop.org
  Subject: Re: [IAEP] Turtle Blocks question

 
  On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
  gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:
   Thanks for the help last night on the Arduino plugin.
   I know what I need to do.
  
   And now, another question. I have been working with the plugin for We
 Do
   robots. The plugin is installed and the palette is where it is
 supposed to
   be. But, the We Do does not respond to the program.
  
   When I look at the Turtle Arts plugin page
   (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Turtle_Art/Plugins), I am
 directed
   to this link:
   https://github.com/itdaniher/WeDoMore/tree/master/udev
  
   to download directions for setting up permissions. However, there are
 two
   files there and I am not sure what to do with them.
 
  99-lego-WeDo.rules are the rules and install_driver.sh is the script
  to run to install them.

 The file 99-lego-WeDo.rules needs to be in: /etc/udev/rules.d (in the
 most linux versions)
 In the new Fedora changes for: /etc/udev...

 The Sugar 0.94? and newest have that rule included.
 I know that in Sugar 0.96 the rule is in place..


 
  -walter
 
  
   I would appreciate any help you can provide.
  
   Thanks.
   Gerald
  
   On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Walter Bender 
 walter.ben...@gmail.com
   wrote:
  
   On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:55 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
   gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:
Walter,
   
Thanks for the amazingly quick response.
I see TurtleBot. I would like to learn how to create my own spin, so
please
do walk me through it.
  
   The easiest thing to do is to:
   (1) clone the TA project*
   (2) load the plugins you are interested in
   (3) run setup.py dist_xo to generate a new .xo bundle
  
   * git clone git://git.sugarlabs.org/turtleart/mainline.git
  
   It may be useful to change the version number, for example, 160.1
   instead of 160 in activity/activity.info
  
I will work more with the Launchpad. So far, it seems very much
 like the
Arduino. Once I know more, I will start to talk to you about
requirements
for the plugin.
  
   OK. No hurry as I have my hands full at the moment.
  
Thanks.
Gerald
   
   
On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Walter Bender 
 walter.ben...@gmail.com
wrote:
   
On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello.

 I have been playing with the Turtle Blocks plugins for Follow
 Me, We
 Do Robots, Lego Mindstorms, and Arduino. They installed
 perfectly in
 Turtle Blocks (as expected).

 I have two questions:
 1. I will need to install Turtle Blocks and these plugins on
 25-50
 XO-1s. Do I have to do the plugins one by one on each machine?
   
TurtleBot comes with all of the above plugins pre-installed.
It is also possible to create a special spin of Turtle Art with
 just
the plugins you want (several deployments do this and I could walk
 you
through the process)
   
 2. How do I go about requesting plug in(s) for the TI Launchpad?
   
I need to know more about how to talk to the TI Launchpad and what
sorts of interactions between it and TA you are looking for.
   
-walter

 Thanks.
 Gerald
 ___
 IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
 IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
   
   
   
--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
   
   
  
  
  
   --
   Walter Bender
   Sugar Labs
   http://www.sugarlabs.org
  
  
 
 
 
  --
  Walter Bender
  Sugar Labs
  http://www.sugarlabs.org
  ___
  IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
  IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
  http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

 ___
 IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
 IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep



 ___ IAEP -- It's An Education
 Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Turtle Blocks question

Walter,

I think this is an important enhancement as well. I am thinking of some
kind of graphical distinction with the bricks, something like icons. The
colors get too noisy. Would you also need some rules then about which
bricks can and cannot connect together if we are crossing devices?

Gerald

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 2:11 PM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
alan...@hotmail.com wrote:

  Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 14:03:21 -0400
  From: walter.ben...@gmail.com
  To: gerald.ard...@gmail.com
  CC: iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; support-g...@laptop.org
  Subject: Re: [IAEP] Turtle Blocks question
 
  Speaking of WeDo, I have a decent handle on supporting multiple
  devices at once, but I am curious as to (1) there is sufficient
  interest; and (2) if there are insights into how best present multiple
  devices to the user.

 It's an important enhancement. You can build a bigger robot that have
 more motors/sensors.
 I have the same problem with NXT plugin: How is a good way of show
 the diferent blocks? Create another palette for the second brick??


  -walter
 
  --
  Walter Bender
  Sugar Labs
  http://www.sugarlabs.org
  ___
  IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
  IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
  http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

 ___
 IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
 IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] [Sur] TI MSP430 running on XO 1 - Robotics!

Tony,

I have been using the Energia IDE on my MacBook Pro for the Launchpad.
As I understand it, it is an Arduino variant, free and open source:
http://energia.nu/
I am not sure if it will run on the XO, but it is an option as I see it.

I look forward to hearing about your progress. I will share whatever I
learn as well.

Thanks.
Gerald

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:25 PM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:
Gerald

Thanks for the update.

I just this link to a project using the TI Launchpad as a robot brain:
http://e2e.ti.com/group/microcontrollerprojects/m/msp430microcontrollerprojects/496334.aspx

I am going to give it a try.

I have just got my MSP430 launchpad and am planning the next step.

http://www.ti.com/ww/en/launchpad/msp430_head.html
It seems that there are 2 development IDE's: CCS and IAR
Neither are open source but they are free when used with a 16kB code
limitation.

MSPGCC is open source but only works from the command line, no graphic IDE.
Yamaplos documents the command line mspdebug at
http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/OLPC_XO-1 (I do not know if mspdebug
and MSPGCC are related)

Currently Arduino, PIC, and LegoWeDo are being used with the OLPC XO with the
programming being done on the XO, either in TurtleArt or Scratch. The
electronics of the robotics kits are being used as I/O expanders. The
students are not programming the processors on the robotics kits. (I am not
sure what LegoNXT is doing).

The Arduino is running Firmata software firmata.org/wiki/Protocol which turns
it into a dumb slave, I think the Butia team are using similar (but
different) software on their Arduino or PIC.

Maybe the most productive approach is to find or write for the MSP430 a
Firmata emulator, then the MSP430 can be used as a replacement for the
Arduino, under control of TurtleArt (and maybe Scratch).

The benefit is that the MSP430 is currently 1/10 the price of an Arduino. I
am concerned that this subsidised price may not continue indefinitely or that
schools may not be able to buy them in quantity though.

I will look at MSP430 Firmata. So far I have installed the CCS IDE for
Windows (it looked easier than Linux). I will let you know my progress

Tony

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

[IAEP] Turtle Blocks question

Hello.

I have been playing with the Turtle Blocks plugins for Follow Me, We
Do Robots, Lego Mindstorms, and Arduino. They installed perfectly in
Turtle Blocks (as expected).

I have two questions:
1. I will need to install Turtle Blocks and these plugins on 25-50
XO-1s. Do I have to do the plugins one by one on each machine?
2. How do I go about requesting plug in(s) for the TI Launchpad?

Thanks.
Gerald
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Turtle Blocks question

Walter,

Thanks for the amazingly quick response.
I see TurtleBot. I would like to learn how to create my own spin, so please
do walk me through it.
I will work more with the Launchpad. So far, it seems very much like the
Arduino. Once I know more, I will start to talk to you about requirements
for the plugin.
Thanks.
Gerald

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:46 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
 gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hello.
 
  I have been playing with the Turtle Blocks plugins for Follow Me, We
  Do Robots, Lego Mindstorms, and Arduino. They installed perfectly in
  Turtle Blocks (as expected).
 
  I have two questions:
  1. I will need to install Turtle Blocks and these plugins on 25-50
  XO-1s. Do I have to do the plugins one by one on each machine?

 TurtleBot comes with all of the above plugins pre-installed.
 It is also possible to create a special spin of Turtle Art with just
 the plugins you want (several deployments do this and I could walk you
 through the process)

  2. How do I go about requesting plug in(s) for the TI Launchpad?

 I need to know more about how to talk to the TI Launchpad and what
 sorts of interactions between it and TA you are looking for.

 -walter
 
  Thanks.
  Gerald
  ___
  IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
  IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
  http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep



 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

[IAEP] Arduino and XO-1

Tony,

I have been trying to get the Arduino to work with the XO-1 laptops.
(Thanks to your great blog posts) I have successfully installed the Arduino
IDE on the laptop, and it works great.
Tonight, I installed the Arduino plugin for Turtle Art and (once again
using your blog posts), created my first project. When I click Start, I
get an error: Check the Arduino and the number of port.

How do I do this with TurtleArt/outside the IDE?

Thanks so much.
Gerald
___
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IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1

Alan,

I have uploaded the newest version of Firmata to the Arduino board, and
still get the first error in your list.
Any thoughts about what I should do next?

Thanks.
Gerald

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
alan...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 The Arduino plugin have some checks. This checks are:

 'ERROR: Check the Arduino and the number of port.'
 'ERROR: Value must be a number from 0 to 255.'
 'ERROR: Value must be either HIGH or LOW.'
 'ERROR: The mode must be either INPUT, OUTPUT, PWM or SERVO.'

 The Arduino board needs have the Firmata firmware [1].

 The checks are catched with try/excepts that not allows see what is wrong.
 I can make a version without it to test..

 Regards!

 Alan

 [1] http://firmata.org/wiki/Download

 --
 From: gerald.ard...@gmail.com
 Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 23:09:03 -0400
 To: fors...@ozonline.com.au; support-g...@laptop.org;
 iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
 Subject: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1


 Tony,

 I have been trying to get the Arduino to work with the XO-1 laptops.
 (Thanks to your great blog posts) I have successfully installed the
 Arduino IDE on the laptop, and it works great.
 Tonight, I installed the Arduino plugin for Turtle Art and (once again
 using your blog posts), created my first project. When I click Start, I
 get an error: Check the Arduino and the number of port.

 How do I do this with TurtleArt/outside the IDE?

 Thanks so much.
 Gerald

 ___ IAEP -- It's An Education
 Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

 ___
 IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
 IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1

Alan,

Thanks. I'll try it out.

Gerald

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:51 PM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
alan...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Replace this file in TurtleArt.activity/plugins/arduino/

 This file not have any calidation, if something is wrong, in the log will
 appears that.

 --
 From: gerald.ard...@gmail.com
 Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 23:36:29 -0400
 Subject: Re: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1
 To: alan...@hotmail.com
 CC: fors...@ozonline.com.au; support-g...@laptop.org;
 iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org


 Alan,

 I have uploaded the newest version of Firmata to the Arduino board, and
 still get the first error in your list.
 Any thoughts about what I should do next?

 Thanks.
 Gerald

 On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
 alan...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 The Arduino plugin have some checks. This checks are:

 'ERROR: Check the Arduino and the number of port.'
 'ERROR: Value must be a number from 0 to 255.'
 'ERROR: Value must be either HIGH or LOW.'
 'ERROR: The mode must be either INPUT, OUTPUT, PWM or SERVO.'

 The Arduino board needs have the Firmata firmware [1].

 The checks are catched with try/excepts that not allows see what is wrong.
 I can make a version without it to test..

 Regards!

 Alan

 [1] http://firmata.org/wiki/Download

 --
 From: gerald.ard...@gmail.com
 Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 23:09:03 -0400
 To: fors...@ozonline.com.au; support-g...@laptop.org;
 iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
 Subject: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1


 Tony,

 I have been trying to get the Arduino to work with the XO-1 laptops.
 (Thanks to your great blog posts) I have successfully installed the
 Arduino IDE on the laptop, and it works great.
 Tonight, I installed the Arduino plugin for Turtle Art and (once again
 using your blog posts), created my first project. When I click Start, I
 get an error: Check the Arduino and the number of port.

 How do I do this with TurtleArt/outside the IDE?

 Thanks so much.
 Gerald

 ___ IAEP -- It's An Education
 Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

 ___
 IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
 IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep



 ___
 IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
 IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1

Tony,

Thanks.  I'll check it out.

Gerald

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:09 AM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:

 Gerald

 Maybe the baud rate or the device name do not match.

 Somewhere in the Arduino plugin code it searches for ttyusbn where n=1,2,3
 ...

 Your Arduino board could be ttyusbn or ttyacmn where n increments each
 time you replug the Arduino. Somewhere, I think /dev , you can see what
 your Arduino is.

 Somewhere in the Firmata listing the baud rate is set, check its the same
 in the plugin code.

 Tony

  Alan,
 
  I have uploaded the newest version of Firmata to the Arduino board, and
  still get the first error in your list.
  Any thoughts about what I should do next?
 
  Thanks.
  Gerald
 
  On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
  alan...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
   Hi,
  
   The Arduino plugin have some checks. This checks are:
  
   'ERROR: Check the Arduino and the number of port.'
   'ERROR: Value must be a number from 0 to 255.'
   'ERROR: Value must be either HIGH or LOW.'
   'ERROR: The mode must be either INPUT, OUTPUT, PWM or SERVO.'
  
   The Arduino board needs have the Firmata firmware [1].
  
   The checks are catched with try/excepts that not allows see what is
 wrong.
   I can make a version without it to test..
  
   Regards!
  
   Alan
  
   [1] http://firmata.org/wiki/Download
  
   --
   From: gerald.ard...@gmail.com
   Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 23:09:03 -0400
   To: fors...@ozonline.com.au; support-g...@laptop.org;
   iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
   Subject: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1
  
  
   Tony,
  
   I have been trying to get the Arduino to work with the XO-1 laptops.
   (Thanks to your great blog posts) I have successfully installed the
   Arduino IDE on the laptop, and it works great.
   Tonight, I installed the Arduino plugin for Turtle Art and (once again
   using your blog posts), created my first project. When I click
 Start, I
   get an error: Check the Arduino and the number of port.
  
   How do I do this with TurtleArt/outside the IDE?
  
   Thanks so much.
   Gerald
  
   ___ IAEP -- It's An
 Education
   Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
   http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
  
   ___
   IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
   IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
   http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
  
 
  _
  This mail has been virus scanned by Australia On Line
  see http://www.australiaonline.net.au/mailscanning
  Alan,divbr/divdivI have uploaded the newest version of Firmata
 to the Arduino board, and still get the first error in your
 list./divdivAny thoughts about what I should do
 next?brbrThanks.brGeraldbrbrdiv class=gmail_quote
 
  On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn span
 dir=ltra href=mailto:alan...@hotmail.com; target=_blank
 alan...@hotmail.com/a/span wrote:brblockquote class=gmail_quote
 style=margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex
 
 
 
 
  divdiv dir=ltrHi,divbr/divdivThe Arduino plugin have some
 checks. This checks are:/divdivbr/divdivdiv'ERROR: Check the
 Arduino and the number of port.'/divdiv'ERROR: Value must be a number
 from 0 to 255.'/div
 
  div'ERROR: Value must be either HIGH or LOW.'/divdiv'ERROR: The
 mode must be either INPUT, OUTPUT, PWM or
 SERVO.'/divdivbr/divdivThe Arduino board needs have the Firmata
 firmware [1]./div
 
  divbr/divdivThe checks are catched with try/excepts that not
 allows see what is wrong./divdivI can make a version without it to
 test../divdivbr/divdivRegards!/divdivbr/divdivAlan/divdiv
 
  br/divdiv[1]�a href=http://firmata.org/wiki/Download;
 style=font-size:12pt 
 target=_blankhttp://firmata.org/wiki/Download/a/divbrdivdiv/divhrFrom:
 a href=mailto:gerald.ard...@gmail.com; target=_blank
 gerald.ard...@gmail.com/abr
 
  Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 23:09:03 -0400brTo: a href=mailto:
 fors...@ozonline.com.au target=_blankfors...@ozonline.com.au/a; a
 href=mailto:support-g...@laptop.org; target=_blank
 support-g...@laptop.org/a; a href=mailto:iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org;
 target=_blankiaep@lists.sugarlabs.org/abr
 
  Subject: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1divdiv
 class=h5brbrTony,divbr/divdivI have been trying to get the
 Arduino to work with the XO-1 laptops./divdiv(Thanks to your great blog
 posts) I have successfully installed the Arduino IDE on the laptop, and it
 works great./div
 
 
 
  divTonight, I installed the Arduino plugin for Turtle Art and (once
 again using your blog posts), created my first project. When I click
 Start, I get an error: Check the Arduino and the number of port.br
 
 
 
  brHow do I do this with TurtleArt/outside the IDE?brbrThanks so
 much.br/divdivGerald/div
  br/div/div___
  IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
  a href=mailto:IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org;

Re: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1

When I do the grep, I get nothing returned.
When I go into the /dev directory, there is nothing ttyUSBn.

What do I do now?
Gerald

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
alan...@hotmail.com wrote:

 If he have the latest version, the plugin makes a list of the ttyUSB
 availables and
 try get the first that works.

 The header of the Arduino Plugin says:

 self._dev = '/dev/ttyUSB0'
 self._baud = 57600
 self._arduino = None

 status,output = commands.getstatusoutput(ls /dev/ | grep ttyUSB)
 output = output.split('\n')
 for i in output:
 status,aux=commands.getstatusoutput(udevinfo -a -p /class/tty/%s
 | grep ftdi_sio  /dev/null % i)
 if (not status):
 self._dev='/dev/%s' % i
 break

 I'm not sure if the udevinfo commands exist in the XO.
 In my Ubuntu 12.10 I not have it, only the udevadm

 Which sugar version you have?

 In the Terminal Activity:

 check for the N of the arduino:

 ls /dev/ | grep ttyUSB

 After, check if exist the udevinfo:

 See the n, and replace the * in this line:

 udevinfo -a -p /class/ttyUSB* | grep ftdi_sio


 --
 From: gerald.ard...@gmail.com
 Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 00:14:08 -0400
 Subject: Re: Re: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1
 To: fors...@ozonline.com.au
 CC: alan...@hotmail.com; iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org


 Tony,

 Thanks.  I'll check it out.

 Gerald

 On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:09 AM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:

 Gerald

 Maybe the baud rate or the device name do not match.

 Somewhere in the Arduino plugin code it searches for ttyusbn where n=1,2,3
 ...

 Your Arduino board could be ttyusbn or ttyacmn where n increments each
 time you replug the Arduino. Somewhere, I think /dev , you can see what
 your Arduino is.

 Somewhere in the Firmata listing the baud rate is set, check its the same
 in the plugin code.

 Tony

  Alan,
 
  I have uploaded the newest version of Firmata to the Arduino board, and
  still get the first error in your list.
  Any thoughts about what I should do next?
 
  Thanks.
  Gerald
 
  On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
  alan...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
   Hi,
  
   The Arduino plugin have some checks. This checks are:
  
   'ERROR: Check the Arduino and the number of port.'
   'ERROR: Value must be a number from 0 to 255.'
   'ERROR: Value must be either HIGH or LOW.'
   'ERROR: The mode must be either INPUT, OUTPUT, PWM or SERVO.'
  
   The Arduino board needs have the Firmata firmware [1].
  
   The checks are catched with try/excepts that not allows see what is
 wrong.
   I can make a version without it to test..
  
   Regards!
  
   Alan
  
   [1] http://firmata.org/wiki/Download
  
   --
   From: gerald.ard...@gmail.com
   Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 23:09:03 -0400
   To: fors...@ozonline.com.au; support-g...@laptop.org;
   iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
   Subject: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1
  
  
   Tony,
  
   I have been trying to get the Arduino to work with the XO-1 laptops.
   (Thanks to your great blog posts) I have successfully installed the
   Arduino IDE on the laptop, and it works great.
   Tonight, I installed the Arduino plugin for Turtle Art and (once again
   using your blog posts), created my first project. When I click
 Start, I
   get an error: Check the Arduino and the number of port.
  
   How do I do this with TurtleArt/outside the IDE?
  
   Thanks so much.
   Gerald
  
   ___ IAEP -- It's An
 Education
   Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
   http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
  
   ___
   IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
   IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
   http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
  
 
  _
  This mail has been virus scanned by Australia On Line
  see http://www.australiaonline.net.au/mailscanning
  Alan,divbr/divdivI have uploaded the newest version of Firmata
 to the Arduino board, and still get the first error in your
 list./divdivAny thoughts about what I should do
 next?brbrThanks.brGeraldbrbrdiv class=gmail_quote
 
  On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn span
 dir=ltra href=mailto:alan...@hotmail.com; target=_blank
 alan...@hotmail.com/a/span wrote:brblockquote class=gmail_quote
 style=margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex
 
 
 
 
  divdiv dir=ltrHi,divbr/divdivThe Arduino plugin have some
 checks. This checks are:/divdivbr/divdivdiv'ERROR: Check the
 Arduino and the number of port.'/divdiv'ERROR: Value must be a number
 from 0 to 255.'/div
 
  div'ERROR: Value must be either HIGH or LOW.'/divdiv'ERROR: The
 mode must be either INPUT, OUTPUT, PWM or
 SERVO.'/divdivbr/divdivThe Arduino board needs have the Firmata
 firmware [1]./div
 
  divbr/divdivThe checks are catched with try/excepts that not
 allows see what is

Re: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1

Alan,

When I plug and unplug the board, I noticed changes to the list of stuff in
/dev.
When the Arduino is plugged in, I see /dev/ttyACHO (or ttyACMO). Does this
make sense?

Thanks.
Gerald

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:42 AM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
gerald.ard...@gmail.comwrote:

 When I do the grep, I get nothing returned.
 When I go into the /dev directory, there is nothing ttyUSBn.

 What do I do now?
 Gerald


 On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
 alan...@hotmail.com wrote:

 If he have the latest version, the plugin makes a list of the ttyUSB
 availables and
 try get the first that works.

 The header of the Arduino Plugin says:

 self._dev = '/dev/ttyUSB0'
 self._baud = 57600
 self._arduino = None

 status,output = commands.getstatusoutput(ls /dev/ | grep ttyUSB)
 output = output.split('\n')
 for i in output:
 status,aux=commands.getstatusoutput(udevinfo -a -p /class/tty/%s
 | grep ftdi_sio  /dev/null % i)
 if (not status):
 self._dev='/dev/%s' % i
 break

 I'm not sure if the udevinfo commands exist in the XO.
 In my Ubuntu 12.10 I not have it, only the udevadm

 Which sugar version you have?

 In the Terminal Activity:

 check for the N of the arduino:

 ls /dev/ | grep ttyUSB

 After, check if exist the udevinfo:

 See the n, and replace the * in this line:

 udevinfo -a -p /class/ttyUSB* | grep ftdi_sio


 --
 From: gerald.ard...@gmail.com
 Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 00:14:08 -0400
 Subject: Re: Re: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1
 To: fors...@ozonline.com.au
 CC: alan...@hotmail.com; iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org


 Tony,

 Thanks.  I'll check it out.

 Gerald

 On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:09 AM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:

 Gerald

 Maybe the baud rate or the device name do not match.

 Somewhere in the Arduino plugin code it searches for ttyusbn where
 n=1,2,3 ...

 Your Arduino board could be ttyusbn or ttyacmn where n increments each
 time you replug the Arduino. Somewhere, I think /dev , you can see what
 your Arduino is.

 Somewhere in the Firmata listing the baud rate is set, check its the same
 in the plugin code.

 Tony

  Alan,
 
  I have uploaded the newest version of Firmata to the Arduino board, and
  still get the first error in your list.
  Any thoughts about what I should do next?
 
  Thanks.
  Gerald
 
  On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
  alan...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
   Hi,
  
   The Arduino plugin have some checks. This checks are:
  
   'ERROR: Check the Arduino and the number of port.'
   'ERROR: Value must be a number from 0 to 255.'
   'ERROR: Value must be either HIGH or LOW.'
   'ERROR: The mode must be either INPUT, OUTPUT, PWM or SERVO.'
  
   The Arduino board needs have the Firmata firmware [1].
  
   The checks are catched with try/excepts that not allows see what is
 wrong.
   I can make a version without it to test..
  
   Regards!
  
   Alan
  
   [1] http://firmata.org/wiki/Download
  
   --
   From: gerald.ard...@gmail.com
   Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 23:09:03 -0400
   To: fors...@ozonline.com.au; support-g...@laptop.org;
   iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
   Subject: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1
  
  
   Tony,
  
   I have been trying to get the Arduino to work with the XO-1 laptops.
   (Thanks to your great blog posts) I have successfully installed the
   Arduino IDE on the laptop, and it works great.
   Tonight, I installed the Arduino plugin for Turtle Art and (once again
   using your blog posts), created my first project. When I click
 Start, I
   get an error: Check the Arduino and the number of port.
  
   How do I do this with TurtleArt/outside the IDE?
  
   Thanks so much.
   Gerald
  
   ___ IAEP -- It's An
 Education
   Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
   http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
  
   ___
   IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
   IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
   http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
  
 
  _
  This mail has been virus scanned by Australia On Line
  see http://www.australiaonline.net.au/mailscanning
  Alan,divbr/divdivI have uploaded the newest version of Firmata
 to the Arduino board, and still get the first error in your
 list./divdivAny thoughts about what I should do
 next?brbrThanks.brGeraldbrbrdiv class=gmail_quote
 
  On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn span
 dir=ltra href=mailto:alan...@hotmail.com; target=_blank
 alan...@hotmail.com/a/span wrote:brblockquote
 class=gmail_quote style=margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
 solid;padding-left:1ex
 
 
 
 
  divdiv dir=ltrHi,divbr/divdivThe Arduino plugin have some
 checks. This checks are:/divdivbr/divdivdiv'ERROR: Check the
 Arduino and the number of port.'/divdiv'ERROR: Value must be a number
 from 0 to 255

Re: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1

Alan,

Upon doing some research, apparently /dev/ttyACM0 is  the identifier for
the board.

Do I have to modify the plugin? If so, how do I do this?

Thanks.
Gerald

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:42 AM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
gerald.ard...@gmail.comwrote:

 When I do the grep, I get nothing returned.
 When I go into the /dev directory, there is nothing ttyUSBn.

 What do I do now?
 Gerald


 On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:21 AM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
 alan...@hotmail.com wrote:

 If he have the latest version, the plugin makes a list of the ttyUSB
 availables and
 try get the first that works.

 The header of the Arduino Plugin says:

 self._dev = '/dev/ttyUSB0'
 self._baud = 57600
 self._arduino = None

 status,output = commands.getstatusoutput(ls /dev/ | grep ttyUSB)
 output = output.split('\n')
 for i in output:
 status,aux=commands.getstatusoutput(udevinfo -a -p /class/tty/%s
 | grep ftdi_sio  /dev/null % i)
 if (not status):
 self._dev='/dev/%s' % i
 break

 I'm not sure if the udevinfo commands exist in the XO.
 In my Ubuntu 12.10 I not have it, only the udevadm

 Which sugar version you have?

 In the Terminal Activity:

 check for the N of the arduino:

 ls /dev/ | grep ttyUSB

 After, check if exist the udevinfo:

 See the n, and replace the * in this line:

 udevinfo -a -p /class/ttyUSB* | grep ftdi_sio


 --
 From: gerald.ard...@gmail.com
 Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 00:14:08 -0400
 Subject: Re: Re: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1
 To: fors...@ozonline.com.au
 CC: alan...@hotmail.com; iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org


 Tony,

 Thanks.  I'll check it out.

 Gerald

 On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:09 AM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:

 Gerald

 Maybe the baud rate or the device name do not match.

 Somewhere in the Arduino plugin code it searches for ttyusbn where
 n=1,2,3 ...

 Your Arduino board could be ttyusbn or ttyacmn where n increments each
 time you replug the Arduino. Somewhere, I think /dev , you can see what
 your Arduino is.

 Somewhere in the Firmata listing the baud rate is set, check its the same
 in the plugin code.

 Tony

  Alan,
 
  I have uploaded the newest version of Firmata to the Arduino board, and
  still get the first error in your list.
  Any thoughts about what I should do next?
 
  Thanks.
  Gerald
 
  On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn 
  alan...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
   Hi,
  
   The Arduino plugin have some checks. This checks are:
  
   'ERROR: Check the Arduino and the number of port.'
   'ERROR: Value must be a number from 0 to 255.'
   'ERROR: Value must be either HIGH or LOW.'
   'ERROR: The mode must be either INPUT, OUTPUT, PWM or SERVO.'
  
   The Arduino board needs have the Firmata firmware [1].
  
   The checks are catched with try/excepts that not allows see what is
 wrong.
   I can make a version without it to test..
  
   Regards!
  
   Alan
  
   [1] http://firmata.org/wiki/Download
  
   --
   From: gerald.ard...@gmail.com
   Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 23:09:03 -0400
   To: fors...@ozonline.com.au; support-g...@laptop.org;
   iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
   Subject: [IAEP] Arduino and XO-1
  
  
   Tony,
  
   I have been trying to get the Arduino to work with the XO-1 laptops.
   (Thanks to your great blog posts) I have successfully installed the
   Arduino IDE on the laptop, and it works great.
   Tonight, I installed the Arduino plugin for Turtle Art and (once again
   using your blog posts), created my first project. When I click
 Start, I
   get an error: Check the Arduino and the number of port.
  
   How do I do this with TurtleArt/outside the IDE?
  
   Thanks so much.
   Gerald
  
   ___ IAEP -- It's An
 Education
   Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
   http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
  
   ___
   IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
   IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
   http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
  
 
  _
  This mail has been virus scanned by Australia On Line
  see http://www.australiaonline.net.au/mailscanning
  Alan,divbr/divdivI have uploaded the newest version of Firmata
 to the Arduino board, and still get the first error in your
 list./divdivAny thoughts about what I should do
 next?brbrThanks.brGeraldbrbrdiv class=gmail_quote
 
  On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:22 PM, Alan Jhonn Aguiar Schwyn span
 dir=ltra href=mailto:alan...@hotmail.com; target=_blank
 alan...@hotmail.com/a/span wrote:brblockquote
 class=gmail_quote style=margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
 solid;padding-left:1ex
 
 
 
 
  divdiv dir=ltrHi,divbr/divdivThe Arduino plugin have some
 checks. This checks are:/divdivbr/divdivdiv'ERROR: Check the
 Arduino and the number of port.'/divdiv'ERROR: Value must be a number
 from 0 to 255.'/div
 
  div'ERROR: Value must

Re: [IAEP] [Sur] TI MSP430 running on XO 1 - Robotics!

2012-10-03 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

I just this link to a project using the TI Launchpad as a robot brain:
http://e2e.ti.com/group/microcontrollerprojects/m/msp430microcontrollerprojects/496334.aspx

I am going to give it a try.

Gerald

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 5:18 AM,  fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:
 You can have arduino IDE too with a yum install arduino I believe.

 Peter

 Yes, it worked for me
 http://tonyforster.blogspot.com.au/2012/01/arduino-and-xo-laptop.html
 Tony
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] [Sur] TI MSP430 running on XO 1 - Robotics!

I have finally got to work on this.
Are there any GUI tools for the programming, or does it all have to be
via command line?

Thanks.
Gerald

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Luis Galindo llwwwl...@gmail.com wrote:
 I just bought the TI MSP430 to test it with the Xo 1.0.

 Thank you Yama :-)

 Luis

 El 10 de febrero de 2012 11:06, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
 escribió:

 2012/2/10 Yamaplos . yamap...@gmail.com:
  The TI MSP430 chips are a very attractive alternative to add robotic
  options for XO / Sugar users. Microcontrolers are the brain behind
  many engineering hobby and educational pursuits, but many alternatives
  are expensive or very hard to run in the XO.
 
  The TI Launchpad board, with a G2553 microcontroler and an extra G2452
  in the box, is available from Texas Instruments for $4.30 USD,
  including shipping anywhere in the world (yes, hard to believe).
 
  http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/MSP430_LaunchPad_%28MSP-EXP430G2%29
 
  Here are the instructions for running the Launchpad with the G2452.
  Maybe if the next iteratiuon of Sugar uses Fedora 15 we will be able
  to use the G2553 as well.
 
  http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/OLPC_XO-1

 The next release will be based on F-17 but both those packages are
 listed. You might want to use one of the test releases based on F-17
 that I've released (new one coming soon) to make sure it all works OK
 and feedback any issues to ensure we get them fixed for the final
 release.

 Peter
 ___

 Lista olpc-Sur
 olpc-...@lists.laptop.org
 http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur



 ___
 Lista olpc-Sur
 olpc-...@lists.laptop.org
 http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur

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Re: [IAEP] [Sur] TI MSP430 running on XO 1 - Robotics!

Yama and Walter,
Thanks.
I was not as clear as I wanted to be. Arduino (or Energia, an
alternative) would be fine. I was speaking about using mspdebug, which
is purely command line based.

Walter,
I will play and then let you know about possible plug-ins. Turtle Art
would be a much better solution for the kids.

Thanks.
Gerald

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
 gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have finally got to work on this.
 Are there any GUI tools for the programming, or does it all have to be
 via command line?

 If you figure out some useful command lines, we could probably make a
 TA plugin. (I've not got my hands of the device yet.)

 -walter


 Thanks.
 Gerald

 On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Luis Galindo llwwwl...@gmail.com wrote:
 I just bought the TI MSP430 to test it with the Xo 1.0.

 Thank you Yama :-)

 Luis

 El 10 de febrero de 2012 11:06, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
 escribió:

 2012/2/10 Yamaplos . yamap...@gmail.com:
  The TI MSP430 chips are a very attractive alternative to add robotic
  options for XO / Sugar users. Microcontrolers are the brain behind
  many engineering hobby and educational pursuits, but many alternatives
  are expensive or very hard to run in the XO.
 
  The TI Launchpad board, with a G2553 microcontroler and an extra G2452
  in the box, is available from Texas Instruments for $4.30 USD,
  including shipping anywhere in the world (yes, hard to believe).
 
  http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/MSP430_LaunchPad_%28MSP-EXP430G2%29
 
  Here are the instructions for running the Launchpad with the G2452.
  Maybe if the next iteratiuon of Sugar uses Fedora 15 we will be able
  to use the G2553 as well.
 
  http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/OLPC_XO-1

 The next release will be based on F-17 but both those packages are
 listed. You might want to use one of the test releases based on F-17
 that I've released (new one coming soon) to make sure it all works OK
 and feedback any issues to ensure we get them fixed for the final
 release.

 Peter
 ___

 Lista olpc-Sur
 olpc-...@lists.laptop.org
 http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur



 ___
 Lista olpc-Sur
 olpc-...@lists.laptop.org
 http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur

 ___
 Lista olpc-Sur
 olpc-...@lists.laptop.org
 http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur



 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org
 ___
 Lista olpc-Sur
 olpc-...@lists.laptop.org
 http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur
___
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http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] [Sur] TI MSP430 running on XO 1 - Robotics!

Peter,

That part worked perfectly!
I have just been used to the Arduino IDE, and so need to make a mental
change. And, more importantly, get more experience with the TI
Launchpad.

Thanks.
Gerald

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 5:01 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
 gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:
 Yama and Walter,
 Thanks.
 I was not as clear as I wanted to be. Arduino (or Energia, an
 alternative) would be fine. I was speaking about using mspdebug, which
 is purely command line based.

 mspdebug is packaged in Fedora so it should be as simple as yum
 install mspdebug on an XO

 Peter

 On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
 gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have finally got to work on this.
 Are there any GUI tools for the programming, or does it all have to be
 via command line?

 If you figure out some useful command lines, we could probably make a
 TA plugin. (I've not got my hands of the device yet.)

 -walter


 Thanks.
 Gerald

 On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Luis Galindo llwwwl...@gmail.com wrote:
 I just bought the TI MSP430 to test it with the Xo 1.0.

 Thank you Yama :-)

 Luis

 El 10 de febrero de 2012 11:06, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
 escribió:

 2012/2/10 Yamaplos . yamap...@gmail.com:
  The TI MSP430 chips are a very attractive alternative to add robotic
  options for XO / Sugar users. Microcontrolers are the brain behind
  many engineering hobby and educational pursuits, but many alternatives
  are expensive or very hard to run in the XO.
 
  The TI Launchpad board, with a G2553 microcontroler and an extra G2452
  in the box, is available from Texas Instruments for $4.30 USD,
  including shipping anywhere in the world (yes, hard to believe).
 
  http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/MSP430_LaunchPad_%28MSP-EXP430G2%29
 
  Here are the instructions for running the Launchpad with the G2452.
  Maybe if the next iteratiuon of Sugar uses Fedora 15 we will be able
  to use the G2553 as well.
 
  http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/OLPC_XO-1

 The next release will be based on F-17 but both those packages are
 listed. You might want to use one of the test releases based on F-17
 that I've released (new one coming soon) to make sure it all works OK
 and feedback any issues to ensure we get them fixed for the final
 release.

 Peter
 ___

 Lista olpc-Sur
 olpc-...@lists.laptop.org
 http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur



 ___
 Lista olpc-Sur
 olpc-...@lists.laptop.org
 http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur

 ___
 Lista olpc-Sur
 olpc-...@lists.laptop.org
 http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur



 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org
 ___
 Lista olpc-Sur
 olpc-...@lists.laptop.org
 http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur
 ___
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 IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
___
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IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] [OLE Bolivia] [Sur] TI MSP430 running on XO 1 - Robotics!

Yama,

This worked great, and I wrote my first program (as indicated on the wiki).
You started a thread a while back about using the Launchpads for
robotics on the XO-1s. And this post turned me on to them. I have been
working with the Arduino, but these boards are pretty neat.
Have you been able to use them in robotics? Is your work documented somewhere.
Thanks.
Gerald

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 9:34 PM, Yama Ploskonka yamap...@gmail.com wrote:
in Terminal:
sudo yum install mspdebug msp430-libc
It takes a while to complete, and seems to freeze a couple times for a
minute or so (some 5-10 minutes or so total)

In the more recent releases it finally works again - for at least a couple
major Sugar releases the redirecting to the Fedora repositories was mangled.
i.e.,
if you do not use the most recent releases of Sugar, follow this
http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/OLPC_XO-1#Error_:_cannot_retrieve_repository_metada
Also, those earlier releases only handle MSP430 chips up to the 24xx family,
not the more recent 25xx
If you didn't have a better reason to update Sugar, this is a good one :-)
(even if the newest Sugar doesn't allow for use of the Gnome desktop besides
the image...)

On 09/26/2012 11:14 AM, Peter Robinson wrote:

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 5:01 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:

Yama and Walter,
Thanks.
I was not as clear as I wanted to be. Arduino (or Energia, an
alternative) would be fine. I was speaking about using mspdebug, which
is purely command line based.

mspdebug is packaged in Fedora so it should be as simple as yum
install mspdebug on an XO

Peter

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com
wrote:

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:

I have finally got to work on this.
Are there any GUI tools for the programming, or does it all have to be
via command line?

If you figure out some useful command lines, we could probably make a
TA plugin. (I've not got my hands of the device yet.)

-walter

Thanks.
Gerald

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Luis Galindo llwwwl...@gmail.com wrote:

I just bought the TI MSP430 to test it with the Xo 1.0.

Thank you Yama :-)

Luis

El 10 de febrero de 2012 11:06, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
escribió:

2012/2/10 Yamaplos . yamap...@gmail.com:

The TI MSP430 chips are a very attractive alternative to add robotic
options for XO / Sugar users. Microcontrolers are the brain behind
many engineering hobby and educational pursuits, but many alternatives
are expensive or very hard to run in the XO.

The TI Launchpad board, with a G2553 microcontroler and an extra G2452
in the box, is available from Texas Instruments for $4.30 USD,
including shipping anywhere in the world (yes, hard to believe).

http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/MSP430_LaunchPad_%28MSP-EXP430G2%29

Here are the instructions for running the Launchpad with the G2452.
Maybe if the next iteratiuon of Sugar uses Fedora 15 we will be able
to use the G2553 as well.

http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/OLPC_XO-1

The next release will be based on F-17 but both those packages are
listed. You might want to use one of the test releases based on F-17
that I've released (new one coming soon) to make sure it all works OK
and feedback any issues to ensure we get them fixed for the final
release.

Peter
___

Lista olpc-Sur
olpc-...@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur

___
Lista olpc-Sur
olpc-...@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur

--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Sugar Digest 2012-09-18

2012-09-20 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Daniel and others,

This thread has really inspired me. I am going to work with my
students to develop Sugar activities.
I have James' book. Are there other resources I need?

Thanks.
Gerald

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Kevin Mark kevin.m...@verizon.net wrote:


 --- On Wed, 9/19/12, S. Daniel Francis fran...@sugarlabs.org wrote:

 From: S. Daniel Francis fran...@sugarlabs.org
 Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Sugar Digest 2012-09-18
 To: Kevin Mark kevin.m...@verizon.net
 Cc: James Simmons nices...@gmail.com, iaep iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org, 
 Sugar-dev Devel sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org, 
 community-n...@lists.sugarlabs.org
 Date: Wednesday, September 19, 2012, 11:27 PM
 Hi Kevin,

 2012/9/19 Kevin Mark kevin.m...@verizon.net:
  Hearing from the kids who are making Sugar activities
 and more contributions, I'm really wanting to
  know what teaching environment made this possible?

 Summing my case all the cases I listened about, we usually
 learn by our self.
 Thinking about why Sugar, well, we could make desktop
 applications,
 but a free and decent way to share a program is difficult to
 find and
 there's not always a community where we can share what we
 make.

 While I can't speak for Sugar Labs, this sound like a very good problems to 
 address. Scratch has a website to 'upload' its programs. I would really 
 love to see a way to help young sugar activity hacker have a place for them 
 to 'hack' on their games/activities. Maybe Activities.sugarlabs.org or some 
 website in .uy? And maybe a forum? (I'm not someone to do this sadly but 
 would think that the very capable people around the sugar community would 
 find this idea motivating)

  Also I
 think Sugar needs activities, unlike desktops, where
 practically all
 is already made.

 Just Edward suggested us to tell our stories, but at the
 moment I'll
 not get into many details and only answer your questions.

  Are there activity hacking classes?
 In Uruguay there is only one activity hacking teacher:
 Flavio Danesse.

 OH wow. I have recently started to 'hack' on JAMedia and JAMediaTube. So I 
 know his work. I wonder if making videos of his lecture would be something he 
 could do and the kids could watch?

 He is an IT teacher, and every year he organizes a workshop
 where he
 teaches volunteer students to program in Python. The group
 Python
 Joven, in English Young Python..

 If you and others can make 'clubs' in your area, that would be great, maybe 
 they can setup a web 'forum' for everyone to exchange ideas.



 Currently, his students contributing here are Agustin
 Zubiaga and
 Cristhofer Travieso, they told me about another student who
 develops
 applications for Android.

  Is this kind of experimentation part of a turtleart
 class?
 For my part I can say yes and no... When I received my XO
 with Sugar
 I liked very much TurtleArt, but the teachers don't teach it
 very
 often, I had to look for documentation.

 Oh, that is sad, I'm surprised to read that.



 Have kids 'goggled' about programming on their own time
 and wanted to know about programming?
 Now you are right, I learn practically all 'googling'.
 Flavio's
 students told me they also learn(ed) a big part of what they
 know
 searching and investigating by them self.
 I think it's better because we can learn what we are
 interested in,
 also if it's not related with Sugar.

 yes that is true. learning what you want (being an auto-didact) is powerful.


  Are there computer programming classes and teachers
 that have assignments that ask the kids to explore?

 Programming is not often a subject at the school.
 I know about optional workshops, like Flavio's. My parents
 are
 teachers, and about three-four years ago, when I was ten
 years old, I
 used to go to the highschool where my parents worked and I
 listened to
 a workshop about web design (basic HTML development) and
 graphic
 design (with GIMP). That workshop was not a way to get
 young
 programmers, but it removed me the fear of seeing a source
 code as
 something strange or made for be understood by non-human
 people.

 Yes, many people have a fear of this 'scary' stuff. It something everyone who 
 wants to learn about programming has to face. Turtleart and Scratch was 
 suppose to help.


 Cheers.
 ~danielf

 P.S: Sorry, I don't speak English very well.

 Thanks you very much for your answers. I think you write English very well!
 -Kevin aka kevix
 ___
 Sugar-devel mailing list
 sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Sugar Digest 2012-09-18

2012-09-20 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Walter,

Sounds good.
Thanks.
Gerald

P.S. And congratulations on the pending new arrival.

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 9:05 AM, Dr. Gerald Ardito
 gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:
 Daniel and others,

 This thread has really inspired me. I am going to work with my
 students to develop Sugar activities.
 I have James' book. Are there other resources I need?

 I'd recommend using the Duplicate function in View Source. Have them
 make some changes to a favorite existing Sugar activity.

 regards.

 -walter


 Thanks.
 Gerald

 On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Kevin Mark kevin.m...@verizon.net wrote:


 --- On Wed, 9/19/12, S. Daniel Francis fran...@sugarlabs.org wrote:

 From: S. Daniel Francis fran...@sugarlabs.org
 Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Sugar Digest 2012-09-18
 To: Kevin Mark kevin.m...@verizon.net
 Cc: James Simmons nices...@gmail.com, iaep 
 iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org, Sugar-dev Devel 
 sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org, community-n...@lists.sugarlabs.org
 Date: Wednesday, September 19, 2012, 11:27 PM
 Hi Kevin,

 2012/9/19 Kevin Mark kevin.m...@verizon.net:
  Hearing from the kids who are making Sugar activities
 and more contributions, I'm really wanting to
  know what teaching environment made this possible?

 Summing my case all the cases I listened about, we usually
 learn by our self.
 Thinking about why Sugar, well, we could make desktop
 applications,
 but a free and decent way to share a program is difficult to
 find and
 there's not always a community where we can share what we
 make.

 While I can't speak for Sugar Labs, this sound like a very good problems to 
 address. Scratch has a website to 'upload' its programs. I would really 
 love to see a way to help young sugar activity hacker have a place for them 
 to 'hack' on their games/activities. Maybe Activities.sugarlabs.org or some 
 website in .uy? And maybe a forum? (I'm not someone to do this sadly but 
 would think that the very capable people around the sugar community would 
 find this idea motivating)

  Also I
 think Sugar needs activities, unlike desktops, where
 practically all
 is already made.

 Just Edward suggested us to tell our stories, but at the
 moment I'll
 not get into many details and only answer your questions.

  Are there activity hacking classes?
 In Uruguay there is only one activity hacking teacher:
 Flavio Danesse.

 OH wow. I have recently started to 'hack' on JAMedia and JAMediaTube. So I 
 know his work. I wonder if making videos of his lecture would be something 
 he could do and the kids could watch?

 He is an IT teacher, and every year he organizes a workshop
 where he
 teaches volunteer students to program in Python. The group
 Python
 Joven, in English Young Python..

 If you and others can make 'clubs' in your area, that would be great, maybe 
 they can setup a web 'forum' for everyone to exchange ideas.



 Currently, his students contributing here are Agustin
 Zubiaga and
 Cristhofer Travieso, they told me about another student who
 develops
 applications for Android.

  Is this kind of experimentation part of a turtleart
 class?
 For my part I can say yes and no... When I received my XO
 with Sugar
 I liked very much TurtleArt, but the teachers don't teach it
 very
 often, I had to look for documentation.

 Oh, that is sad, I'm surprised to read that.



 Have kids 'goggled' about programming on their own time
 and wanted to know about programming?
 Now you are right, I learn practically all 'googling'.
 Flavio's
 students told me they also learn(ed) a big part of what they
 know
 searching and investigating by them self.
 I think it's better because we can learn what we are
 interested in,
 also if it's not related with Sugar.

 yes that is true. learning what you want (being an auto-didact) is powerful.


  Are there computer programming classes and teachers
 that have assignments that ask the kids to explore?

 Programming is not often a subject at the school.
 I know about optional workshops, like Flavio's. My parents
 are
 teachers, and about three-four years ago, when I was ten
 years old, I
 used to go to the highschool where my parents worked and I
 listened to
 a workshop about web design (basic HTML development) and
 graphic
 design (with GIMP). That workshop was not a way to get
 young
 programmers, but it removed me the fear of seeing a source
 code as
 something strange or made for be understood by non-human
 people.

 Yes, many people have a fear of this 'scary' stuff. It something everyone 
 who wants to learn about programming has to face. Turtleart and Scratch was 
 suppose to help.


 Cheers.
 ~danielf

 P.S: Sorry, I don't speak English very well.

 Thanks you very much for your answers. I think you write English very well!
 -Kevin aka kevix
 ___
 Sugar-devel mailing list
 sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] meeting reminder

2012-09-17 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

I'll be there.
Gerald

On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Sebastian Silva
sebast...@somosazucar.org wrote:
 I'll be there.
 Regards,

 Sebastian

 On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 08:04:20 -0400
 Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote:

 For once I remembered to send a meeting reminder :P

 We (the Sugar Labs Oversight Board) will be meeting tomorrow (Tuesday,
 September 18) at 17:00 EST, (21:00 UTC) on irc.freenode.net
 (#sugar-meeting).

 Please join us for a discussion of our annual report to the Software
 Freedom Conservancy and some topics regarding our programs in
 internationalization (i18n).

 regards.

 -walter
 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org
 ___
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 IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
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 sl...@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/slobs
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Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] scheduling our next meeting

2012-09-14 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

+1

On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote:
 I forgot to send out a reminder about yesterday's meeting and thus we
 did not have a quorum. I'd like to try again early next week. How
 about Tuesday, 18 September at 17:00 EST, (21:00 UTC).

 Topics include our year-end summary for the SFC and  Endangered
 Languages Project.

 regards.

 -walter

 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] Local Labs motion

2012-05-30 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

+1

Gerald

On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 7:13 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote:
 Buried in the meeting log [1] is a motion [5] to adopt three changes
 [2, 3, 4] to the Trademark [6] and Local Labs [7] pages in the wiki.
 The motion was seconded and we began a vote, but whereas it seemed to
 be a controversial decision, I though it prudent to ask those who were
 not able to attend today's Sugar Labs oversight board meeting to also
 vote.

 So far,

 walter +1
 cjl +1

 icarito -1

 alsroot has not voted yet.

 cjb, canoeberry, and geralda were not present.

 Please respond to this email with your vote.

 Also, there was motion [8], not yet seconded, to ask Tony if he was OK
 with a change in the wording of [4]. There was not consensus on the
 wording, but there was consensus on asking for Tony's input.

 Tony, could you please chime in?

 thanks.

 -walter

 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org


 [1] http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2012-05-30T21:08:10
 [2] 
 http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2012-05-30T21:08:10#i_2739410
 [3] 
 http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2012-05-30T21:08:10#i_2739421
 [4] 
 http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2012-05-30T21:08:10#i_2739445
 [5] 
 http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2012-05-30T21:08:10#i_2739570
 [6] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Trademark
 [7] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Local_Labs
 [8] 
 http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2012-05-30T21:08:10#i_2739707
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Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] meeting proposal: Thursday, 3 May, at 21:00 UTC (17:00 EST)

2012-04-27 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

I'll be there.

Gerald

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:

 Hi,

 On Fri, Apr 27 2012, Walter Bender wrote:
  It has been a while. A few things to catch up on. Can we muster a
  quorum for the proposed date/time?

 I'll be there.

 Thanks,

 - Chris.
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Re: [IAEP] [Sur] TI MSP430 running on XO 1 - Robotics!

2012-02-11 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Yama,

Thanks so much for sharing this.
I am planning to order some to test out with my students on the XOs.

Perhaps we can open some wiki pages devoted to this?

Cheers,
Gerald

2012/2/11 Luis Galindo llwwwl...@gmail.com

 I just bought the TI MSP430 to test it with the Xo 1.0.

 Thank you Yama :-)

 Luis

 El 10 de febrero de 2012 11:06, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.comescribió:

 2012/2/10 Yamaplos . yamap...@gmail.com:
  The TI MSP430 chips are a very attractive alternative to add robotic
  options for XO / Sugar users. Microcontrolers are the brain behind
  many engineering hobby and educational pursuits, but many alternatives
  are expensive or very hard to run in the XO.
 
  The TI Launchpad board, with a G2553 microcontroler and an extra G2452
  in the box, is available from Texas Instruments for $4.30 USD,
  including shipping anywhere in the world (yes, hard to believe).
 
 http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/MSP430_LaunchPad_%28MSP-EXP430G2%29
 
  Here are the instructions for running the Launchpad with the G2452.
  Maybe if the next iteratiuon of Sugar uses Fedora 15 we will be able
  to use the G2553 as well.
 
  http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/OLPC_XO-1

 The next release will be based on F-17 but both those packages are
 listed. You might want to use one of the test releases based on F-17
 that I've released (new one coming soon) to make sure it all works OK
 and feedback any issues to ensure we get them fixed for the final
 release.

 Peter
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Re: [IAEP] What makes examples good for novices? and How do we tell if an example is good for novices?

2012-02-02 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Steve,

Your question made me think about research I read about a couple of years
ago. The researcher was investigating narratives between patients and
doctors. Their major finding was that patients naturally needed to narrate
what they were experiencing, and that close to 100% of the time, the doctor
stopped them from talking.

What makes the examples good is that are narrative, rather than functional.
For example, I want to do this, instead of here's how you define a class.

I hope this helps.

Gerald

On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 7:56 PM, Steve Thomas sthom...@gosargon.com wrote:

 So I am taking a P2PU course On How to Teach Web Programmin to Free Range
 Learnershttp://p2pu.org/en/groups/how-to-teach-webcraft-and-programming-to-free-range-students/and
  a couple of questions came up:

 So I pose them to the community:

1. What makes examples good for novices?
2. How do we tell if an example is good for novices?

 Also where can I find a good set of examples for learning programming?

 It would be nice to have a curated set of Great literature.

 Pointers to any research on the topic would be appreciated.

 Stephen

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Re: [IAEP] something to aspire to...

2012-01-08 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

What about an Activity (maybe branching from Physics) that would allow
children to build their own virtual Rube Goldberg machines?
I would be happy to help.

Gerald

2012/1/8 Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com


 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/nyregion/brooklyns-joseph-herscher-and-his-rube-goldberg-machines.html

 -walter

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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs Website Revamp IRC Mtg 1-8-12 11:00amEST(16:00UTC)

2012-01-08 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Christian,

I'll be there.

Thanks.
Gerald

On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt 
christianm...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all

 We met today on IRC to discuss the website design and content, but not
 many were present. It is important that we get your feedback as the work on
 the website progresses. Therefor, I am looking to reschedule our meeting to
 another time that works for everyone. See John's original email below: We
 are looking for feedback on the design as well as volunteers to help us
 generate content for the new website.

 Does this coming Saturday 14th at 11:00am EST/16:00 UTC work for everyone?
 Or is a time during the week better? Suggestions welcome.

 Thank you,


 Christian


 On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 4:10 PM, John Tierney jtis4...@hotmail.com wrote:

  Hello All,

 Happy New Year! As the New Year starts we are making another effort to
 restart the
 Sugar Labs Website Revamp.

 Designer and community member Christian Marc Schmidt has put together a
 Design Template along with a
 Sugar Labs Website Refresh: Content Document. These two documents along
 with the work and content
 gathering done by RIT Co-op students Mike Devine and JT Mengel last year
 will hopefully give us solid basis
 to start from.

 Our Kick-off IRC meeting will take place this Sunday Jan. 8th
 on#sugar-meeting at 11:00amEST(16:00UTC),
 after the Design Meeting surrounding Write To Journal Anytime taking
 place at 10:00amEST.

 Please join us if you are available-our key shortcoming last year in our
 attempt was a lack of content to effectively
 create the new site. All help is Welcome and needed.

 Because this is in the Building and Design stage please email me at:
 jtis4...@hotmail.com to get links to the preview
 documents if you are interested in being part of the process.

 Our First Step is to give Christian the Thumbs Up/Make Enhancements to
 the Design.

 Our Second Step will look to get individual community members to take
 responsibility in Content Gathering Areas that flow out of
 the documents Christian has prepared.

 Our Third Step is to execute Content Gathering

 Upon receiving enough content Christian will then commence the build
 phase.

 We hope you can join us on Sunday and look forward to working with the
 community to do this important
 work. Please let us know of your interest in taking part in this
 important endeavor.

 Appreciate the Collaboration!
 John Tierney

 P.S. Please get into the hands of those who will be best able to
 assist-Thank You!




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Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] scheduling future meetings

2011-12-08 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

It's good for me, too.
Gerald

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:51 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 I've not heard back from everyone yet, but it seems that Tuesdays at
 4PM EST (21 UTC) may work. Let's schedule our next meeting for the
 20th?

 regards.

 -walter

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Re: [IAEP] Why is Scratch more popular than Etoys?

2011-09-11 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

I have been using Scratch and Etoys with students in grades 5-8 for the past
4 years or so. In this work, I have seen an interesting pattern. The younger
students (5th and 6th graders) ALWAYS prefer Etoys to Scratch. (I am talking
here about first exposure).They love the drawing component and then being
able to make their drawings move or do something. The older students ALWAYS
prefer Scratch. They get the bricks metaphor right away and so can get
things done very quickly.

And sometimes students using Etoys get frustrated because there are so many
options and choices and opportunities for functionality.

What is also interesting is the degree to which the tools are owned by the
students. Whichever one they are using starts to become a powerful form of
expression for them so that, if given the opportunity, they will use it to
complete projects and presentations, etc.

I just wanted to add this experience to the conversation.

Gerald

On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Maria Droujkova droujk...@gmail.comwrote:

 Scratch looks a bit more sleek (modern?) and is a bit easier to use. I
 think these bits add up.

 I think Scratch has easier media tools, but I may be mistaken there - maybe
 I just don't know how to use Etoys media tools.

 Cheers,
 Maria Droujkova
 919-388-1721

 Make math your own, to make your own math




 On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Steve Thomas sthom...@gosargon.comwrote:

 I have taught both Scratch and Etoys to kids and hands down most kids
 prefer Scratch.  I also prefer Scratch for certain things, but prefer Etoys
 for most learning and teaching.

 What can we learn from Scratch (and TurtleArt et al) to improve Etoys?
  And vice versa what can be done to improve Scratch?
 .
 I have ideas, which I will share later, but I am curious to hear the
 thoughts of others (as mine add nothing to my current understanding and
 repeating them will simply further ingrain incomplete and incorrect
 assumptions and prejudices ;)

 Stephen
 P.S. I fully believe kids should learn multiple languages and am not
 looking for the one ring to rule them all.  Each language/environment has
 its advantages and we need multiple.

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Re: [IAEP] Update on the Sugar Labs website refresh

2011-06-30 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Sean,

I would be happy to participate on the panel.
Gerald

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 7:11 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote:

Many thanks Christian for this update

Yes I too saw that although Walter (the Sugar Digest [1]), myself (on
the lists [2] plus the olpcnews piece [3]), John (on the lists [4]),
JT Mike (on the lists [5]) all asked for content, there was little
or no reaction. I believe we need to ask more concretely, i.e. for
the X page we need a Y visual - even if this means a list of
requests. I can't help but feel that the day the new site goes live
there will be complaints, while assistance now will make the site the
best it can be!

Another next step is to assemble a teacher panel to assess the site
usability. The Marketlab study [6] clearly showed that teachers are
not finding the information they need on our current sites, and
coupled with the high technical barriers to installing and configuring
Sugar means we discourage too many teachers from even trying
Activities. Teachers, contact us please to participate in the panel!

thanks

Sean

1. http://walterbender.org/?p=431
2. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2011-March/012783.html
3.
http://www.olpcnews.com/software/sugar/teachers_help_us_improve_the_sugarlabs_website.html
4. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2011-April/012959.html
5. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2011-April/012843.html,
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/dextrose/2011-April/001234.html
6. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team#MIT_Sloan_MarketLab_Study

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:22 PM, Christian Marc Schmidt
anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com wrote:
Hi everyone,

John and I wanted to give you a brief update on the status of the
website. For the last few months we had the benefit of working with
two RIT students, JT and Mike, who helped us take initial steps in
launching a new and improved public-facing website. With their help,
we identified the shortcomings of the current site and the
opportunities for (a) better articulating the Sugar value proposition
and (b) keeping the site current with events and progress made by the
developer community.

There were a few learnings along the way: While JT and Mike were able
to gather and produce a fair number of assets, it was far more
difficult to get all the content we had hoped for and which we know
does exist. This means that we will be reaching out to the community
again in a short while to help us fill in the missing pieces. In the
meantime, thank you to all of you who helped to provide content in the
first round!

Next steps are to make further traction on the UI design in order to
give us a scaffold to populate with content as it comes in. This will
be happening over the next few weeks, and we'll keep all of you
updated when there are opportunities for feedback.

Thanks, and more to come,

Christian

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Re: [IAEP] Turtles All The Way Out

2011-06-07 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Walter and Edward,

I am very interested in this conversation.
As you know, I have been working with 5th graders and XO Laptops for the
past 3 years in the middle school in which I teach.
For next year, I have designed a pilot program to teach our 6th graders
about programming software and devices. I have seen the sequence as
beginning with software and then leading to robots of some kind.
I think Turtle Art is a perfect place to start, especially given this
conversation, and the availability of the XOs.
So, I am willing to test out the work you are doing with these students.

I have some questions:
1. Will the recent version of Turtle Art (Turtle Blocks) run on the latest
XO build?
2. In order to use sensors, what kind of devices are you talking about
(WeDos?; Arduino? Something else?).
3. Do you have or know of a curriculum that addresses our project?

Thanks.
Gerald

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:



 On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 8:11 PM, John Gilmore g...@toad.com wrote:

 I had to think about this some before having a useful response.


 Lots of good ideas here, so thank you for taking the time.


  I cannot speak for every Sugar developer, but the approach I have tried
 to
  take with Turtle Art is a bit different than you are describing. The
  block-based programming environment is not meant to be a substitute for
 real
  tools; it is meant to be a place to get started; to learn that you can
 write
  and modify code; and to provide multiple motivations and launch pads for
  getting into the real thing. I've worked pretty hard to make the
  structured thing behind the view more approachable, and have provided
  multiple ways in and out: exporting your fluffy view into Logo that
 can be
  run in Brian Harvey's text-based Logo environment; direct, in-line
  extensions written in Python; the ability to create new blocks by
 importing
  Python; a plugin mechanism for making major interventions; and a
 refactoring
  of the underlying structures to make the code more approachable. (The
 source
  code is peppered with comments and examples of how to make
 modifications.)
  None of these interventions are intended to keep the kids programming in
  Turtle Art. They are all intended to get the kids started down the path
 of
  real programming. But I content that we need to engage them; let them

  discover that they can write code; and make changes; and that it is not
  something just for others but for everyone.

 Walter, this is a worthwhile approach.

 But it was all invisible from an OLPC user's point of view (i.e. a
 child's).  All they get is a GUI in which they can hook blocks
 together and see graphics.

 Even finding the library of fun looking pre-existing designs was hard
 (it's hiding behind a bizarre looking icon that you can't even see
 until you go to a different tab in the Frame than the default one).
 If you show a kid how to find one of those designs, they get the idea
 of TurtleArt, and can modify them to see how the design changes.
 Until they see a complete, working design in 10 blocks including a
 loop, TurtleArt is a morass where new users can drag things around but
 it doesn't do anything fun.

 (Note I'm working from memory of a several-year-old TurtleArt.  Perhaps
 it's better now.)


 Please grab a recent version. It is quite different from even a year ago.


 (Also, it's hard to make the leap from a slow turtle leaving marks
 behind as it goes two steps and turns, to the whole screen being
 filled with colors in a flash.  Most things in the world don't have
 the many-orders-of-magnitude speedups that we in computing have become
 blase about.  It wouldn't occur to us that to paint an entire wall in
 a second, we should tell the painter to move the brush one inch and
 then repeat that over and over until done.  We'd look for a spray gun,
 or toss a whole bucket of paint, or recruit a crowd of painters, or
 something.  Fast things and painstaking things aren't disjoint in
 computing, as they are elsewhere; how do you teach that powerful insight?)


 Cute idea for a project: fill the screen. There are of course many ways
 to do it: from using the fill-screen block to setting the pen size to the
 screen width to discovering the repeat block to discovering that you can
 launch as many turtles as you'd like, each of which has a pen.


  I am open to suggestions as to how to get more kids to move on from
 Turtle
  Art to ___ (insert you favorite real programming environment here).

 First, have Turtle Art start up not with a blank slate, but by
 bringing in one of the predefined designs -- preferably at random, so
 they'll see more of the corpus as they run it over and over.


 I have gone back and forth on this one. I think that you are right: I
 should start with a program on the screen, probably a simple example of a
 spiral that introduces the concepts of loops and variables (and perhaps
 sensors).



 Second, I suggest that if some blocks are

Re: [IAEP] Turtles All The Way Out

2011-06-07 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Walter,

Thanks. And I'll check out Fred Martin's book.
If you are up for another visit to us in the Fall to do some more intensive
Turtle Art work, we'd love to have you.


Gerald

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:



 On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito gerald.ard...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 Walter and Edward,

 I am very interested in this conversation.
 As you know, I have been working with 5th graders and XO Laptops for the
 past 3 years in the middle school in which I teach.
 For next year, I have designed a pilot program to teach our 6th graders
 about programming software and devices. I have seen the sequence as
 beginning with software and then leading to robots of some kind.
 I think Turtle Art is a perfect place to start, especially given this
 conversation, and the availability of the XOs.
 So, I am willing to test out the work you are doing with these students.

  I have some questions:
 1. Will the recent version of Turtle Art (Turtle Blocks) run on the latest
 XO build?

 Yes. v108 should run on any XO build.

 2. In order to use sensors, what kind of devices are you talking about
 (WeDos?; Arduino? Something else?).

 Those are all nice, but just using the microphone in works nicely. Plus you
 have the camera.


 3. Do you have or know of a curriculum that addresses our project?

 There are lots of bits and pieces. Regarding robots, there is a nice book
 written by Fred Martin that came out maybe 5 years ago. (Fred was one of the
 principal designers of the original Lego robotics kits at MIT and helped
 develop with 6.270 curriculum. He teaches at UMass-Lowell.

 enjoy.

 -walter


 Thanks.
 Gerald

 On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:



 On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 8:11 PM, John Gilmore g...@toad.com wrote:

 I had to think about this some before having a useful response.


 Lots of good ideas here, so thank you for taking the time.


  I cannot speak for every Sugar developer, but the approach I have
 tried to
  take with Turtle Art is a bit different than you are describing. The
  block-based programming environment is not meant to be a substitute
 for real
  tools; it is meant to be a place to get started; to learn that you can
 write
  and modify code; and to provide multiple motivations and launch pads
 for
  getting into the real thing. I've worked pretty hard to make the
  structured thing behind the view more approachable, and have
 provided
  multiple ways in and out: exporting your fluffy view into Logo that
 can be
  run in Brian Harvey's text-based Logo environment; direct, in-line
  extensions written in Python; the ability to create new blocks by
 importing
  Python; a plugin mechanism for making major interventions; and a
 refactoring
  of the underlying structures to make the code more approachable. (The
 source
  code is peppered with comments and examples of how to make
 modifications.)
  None of these interventions are intended to keep the kids programming
 in
  Turtle Art. They are all intended to get the kids started down the
 path of
  real programming. But I content that we need to engage them; let
 them

  discover that they can write code; and make changes; and that it is
 not
  something just for others but for everyone.

 Walter, this is a worthwhile approach.

 But it was all invisible from an OLPC user's point of view (i.e. a
 child's).  All they get is a GUI in which they can hook blocks
 together and see graphics.

 Even finding the library of fun looking pre-existing designs was hard
 (it's hiding behind a bizarre looking icon that you can't even see
 until you go to a different tab in the Frame than the default one).
 If you show a kid how to find one of those designs, they get the idea
 of TurtleArt, and can modify them to see how the design changes.
 Until they see a complete, working design in 10 blocks including a
 loop, TurtleArt is a morass where new users can drag things around but
 it doesn't do anything fun.

 (Note I'm working from memory of a several-year-old TurtleArt.  Perhaps
 it's better now.)


 Please grab a recent version. It is quite different from even a year ago.



 (Also, it's hard to make the leap from a slow turtle leaving marks
 behind as it goes two steps and turns, to the whole screen being
 filled with colors in a flash.  Most things in the world don't have
 the many-orders-of-magnitude speedups that we in computing have become
 blase about.  It wouldn't occur to us that to paint an entire wall in
 a second, we should tell the painter to move the brush one inch and
 then repeat that over and over until done.  We'd look for a spray gun,
 or toss a whole bucket of paint, or recruit a crowd of painters, or
 something.  Fast things and painstaking things aren't disjoint in
 computing, as they are elsewhere; how do you teach that powerful
 insight?)


 Cute idea for a project: fill the screen. There are of course many ways
 to do it: from using

Re: [IAEP] Turtles All The Way Out

2011-06-07 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Walter,

That would be great. Thanks.
Can you look and see when in September might work for you?

Gerald

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:



 On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:15 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito gerald.ard...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 Walter,

 Thanks. And I'll check out Fred Martin's book.
 If you are up for another visit to us in the Fall to do some more
 intensive Turtle Art work, we'd love to have you.


 Sounds like fun. Maybe early in the semester to get them up and running.

 -walter




 Gerald


 On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:13 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:



 On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito 
 gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote:

 Walter and Edward,

 I am very interested in this conversation.
 As you know, I have been working with 5th graders and XO Laptops for the
 past 3 years in the middle school in which I teach.
 For next year, I have designed a pilot program to teach our 6th graders
 about programming software and devices. I have seen the sequence as
 beginning with software and then leading to robots of some kind.
 I think Turtle Art is a perfect place to start, especially given this
 conversation, and the availability of the XOs.
 So, I am willing to test out the work you are doing with these students.

  I have some questions:
 1. Will the recent version of Turtle Art (Turtle Blocks) run on the
 latest XO build?

 Yes. v108 should run on any XO build.

 2. In order to use sensors, what kind of devices are you talking about
 (WeDos?; Arduino? Something else?).

 Those are all nice, but just using the microphone in works nicely. Plus
 you have the camera.


 3. Do you have or know of a curriculum that addresses our project?

 There are lots of bits and pieces. Regarding robots, there is a nice book
 written by Fred Martin that came out maybe 5 years ago. (Fred was one of the
 principal designers of the original Lego robotics kits at MIT and helped
 develop with 6.270 curriculum. He teaches at UMass-Lowell.

 enjoy.

 -walter


 Thanks.
 Gerald

 On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Walter Bender 
 walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:



 On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 8:11 PM, John Gilmore g...@toad.com wrote:

 I had to think about this some before having a useful response.


 Lots of good ideas here, so thank you for taking the time.


  I cannot speak for every Sugar developer, but the approach I have
 tried to
  take with Turtle Art is a bit different than you are describing. The
  block-based programming environment is not meant to be a substitute
 for real
  tools; it is meant to be a place to get started; to learn that you
 can write
  and modify code; and to provide multiple motivations and launch pads
 for
  getting into the real thing. I've worked pretty hard to make the
  structured thing behind the view more approachable, and have
 provided
  multiple ways in and out: exporting your fluffy view into Logo
 that can be
  run in Brian Harvey's text-based Logo environment; direct, in-line
  extensions written in Python; the ability to create new blocks by
 importing
  Python; a plugin mechanism for making major interventions; and a
 refactoring
  of the underlying structures to make the code more approachable.
 (The source
  code is peppered with comments and examples of how to make
 modifications.)
  None of these interventions are intended to keep the kids
 programming in
  Turtle Art. They are all intended to get the kids started down the
 path of
  real programming. But I content that we need to engage them; let
 them

  discover that they can write code; and make changes; and that it is
 not
  something just for others but for everyone.

 Walter, this is a worthwhile approach.

 But it was all invisible from an OLPC user's point of view (i.e. a
 child's).  All they get is a GUI in which they can hook blocks
 together and see graphics.

 Even finding the library of fun looking pre-existing designs was hard
 (it's hiding behind a bizarre looking icon that you can't even see
 until you go to a different tab in the Frame than the default one).
 If you show a kid how to find one of those designs, they get the idea
 of TurtleArt, and can modify them to see how the design changes.
 Until they see a complete, working design in 10 blocks including a
 loop, TurtleArt is a morass where new users can drag things around but
 it doesn't do anything fun.

 (Note I'm working from memory of a several-year-old TurtleArt.
  Perhaps
 it's better now.)


 Please grab a recent version. It is quite different from even a year
 ago.


 (Also, it's hard to make the leap from a slow turtle leaving marks
 behind as it goes two steps and turns, to the whole screen being
 filled with colors in a flash.  Most things in the world don't have
 the many-orders-of-magnitude speedups that we in computing have become
 blase about.  It wouldn't occur to us that to paint an entire wall in
 a second, we should tell the painter to move the brush one inch and
 then repeat

Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] New activity from OLPC France

2011-04-18 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Walter,

The type of lab notebook activity you describe could be extended beyond the
cooking area. I can see students using this for all kinds of scientific
investigations.

My two cents.
Gerald

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 7:47 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Stefanie Nobel
 stefanie.no...@googlemail.com wrote:
  Hello,
 
  I’m glad to present you a new project from OLPC France. For the next six
  months we will develop a new playful software, which aims at educating
  children about a healthier nutrition.
  In this game children are taking care of an avatar by providing him with
  meals, which they have to prepare before. By doing so the children are
 meant
  to learn the importance of good nutrition for their healthy.
  The game will be supported by Danone Research. They will not only finance
  the project but also share their great knowledge on this topic with us.
 
  We’re just at the begining of the development but here is a short
  description of our first ideas:
  The game will be split in two parts:
 
  In one part the children can create their own recipes in a virtual
  environment, similar to a “cook studio”. There is also the possibility to
  share these recipes with other children.
  The other part is for validation: Here the meal will be “validated” by
 the
  avatar, (for example, a reaction might be, that the avatar can’t do
 homework
  because he has not sufficient energy).
 
  So at first we will have to define the relevant parameters, which you
 have
  to consider when you validate a healthy meal, for example:
 
  The need of the different nutritional values,
  The nutritional value of the aliment
  In natural and organic state and
  after the preparation of the meal
  The activities, the avatar/child do/did during the day
  The season and the weather
  The times of the meals during the day(this has an impact on the gain of
 the
  food)
  The health of the avatar/child
  The extent of hygienic conditions when preparing the food
 
 
 
  The next step will be to collect all those information and integrate it
 into
  a rough logic.
 
 
 
  So don’t hesitate to comment about this project and share your thoughts.
 
  We appreciate all kinds of input!
 

 FWIW, several of us have been thinking about a different angle on a
 cooking activity, one more geared towards chemistry and the science of
 the kitchen: getting the kids to experiment with recipes, for example,
 changing the 'resting time' when making noodles from flour and water,
 and observing how this changes the consistency,  flavor, etc. The
 Activity would be more like a lab notebook and set of simple data
 analysis tools than anything else, but then the kids could presumably
 photograph their results with their XO and share their successes and
 failures, and aggregate data more widely. It be interesting to fold in
 nutrition into the mix: does Danone have data we can use re how
 cooking impacts the foods we eat?

 regards.

 -walter

 
  Stefanie
 
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  sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org
  http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
 
 



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 Sugar Labs
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Re: [IAEP] Feedback needed: pippy use cases?

2011-02-23 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Thanks, Scott.
Gerald

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 5:42 AM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@cscott.net wrote:

 http://dev.laptop.org/git/users/cscott/pippy-examples/tree/ has a set
 of pippy examples in both English and Spanish, based on the example
 code in the Commodore 64 user's manual (which taught me how to
 program, once upon a time).  I've used this to teach programming with
 pippy in Peru.

 It's best if these are presented on a blackboard for the student to
 type in, not just clicked-through.
  --scott
 --
  ( http://cscott.net/ )

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Re: [IAEP] Feedback needed: pippy use cases?

2011-02-22 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

I wanted to add that I agree with Steve.
I have been working with 5th-8th graders, many of whom love Turtle Art,
Scratch, and Etoys. When they get the bug from this kind of programming, I
want to introduce them to Pippy, but, like Steve said, I am not sure what to
do other than press run.

Gerald

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 4:45 AM, Steve Thomas sthom...@gosargon.com wrote:

 An interface and examples like: http://tryruby.org/ would be a nice.  It;s
 a hand's on tutorial that walks you through learning ruby step by step and
 you feel like you are actually doing and learning something.  Ideally you
 could also build a framework where users could create their own lesson's
 following a similar format.

 Part of the challenge of the existing Pippy is while it has some nice fun
 examples they don't invite you in to start coding the way tryruby.orgdoes.  
 To me when I first saw it I wasn't sure what I was supposed to do
 other than hit Run!'.

 FYI, the Thanks program does not work on my XO.

 Stephen
 http://mrstevesscience.blogspot.com/



 On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 11:03 PM, Anish Mangal 
 an...@activitycentral.orgwrote:

 Hi,

 As Pippy maintainer, I'm looking for inputs as to how is Pippy
 intended to be used in a classroom environment and how is it currently
 used. In particular:

 1. What grades use Pippy? Could it be used in lower grades with some
 changes? If so, what could be the nature of those changes?

 2. Collaborative code editing? How much is it actually used? What
 could be made better?

 3. Sharing/reviewing of examples by other kids/teachers?

 4. Would more explanatory code comments in Pippy examples help?

 5. Would having a central repository of having pippy code examples
 help... For example, the ability to download/upload to a url like
 pippy.sugarlabs.org?

 6. Would it help to have the examples in different languages wherever
 possible (spanish, for example)?

 Inputs will help guide future releases of Pippy.

 --
 Anish
 ___
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Re: [IAEP] Another Etoys Question

2011-01-31 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Cherry,

I am going to be using the manual with some teachers soon.
I will make updates from those sessions.

Gerald

On Monday, January 31, 2011, Cherry Withers cwith...@ekindling.org wrote:
 Hi Carlos,

 The manual is not completely done. It needs editing and we would appreciate 
 all the feedback that we can get.

 If you'd like to spearhead the effort of translating it to Spanish, it will 
 be most appreciated! The original manual was done using FLOSS Manuals.
 You can open an account for free and email them of your intent to start a 
 book or manual and go from there: http://en.flossmanuals.net/

 Thank you for all of your support!

 --Cherry

 On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 9:23 AM, Carlos Rabassa car...@me.com wrote:

 Cherry,
 interesting you mention the manual.
 What is the status of the manual?
 At one point I had volunteered to translate it into Spanish.

 Then there were other volunteers,  then there was some other book and then no 
 more talk.
 My offer is still on.
 Is there anything you think I could start translating about Etoys?

 Carlos Rabassa

 On Jan 31, 2011, at 8:49 PM, Cherry Withers wrote:
 Hi Caryl,

 I wrote that chapter on the manual. I would really like to know if there's 
 anything at all that's unclear about what I wrote.
 I would also be happy to go through it with you on Skype at your convenience.

 Cheers,
 Cherry

 On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Steve Thomas sthom...@gosargon.com wrote:

 Caryl,
 From the supplies bin, drag out a book. Then click on the Triangle in the 
 upper left corner of the book (when you hover over it it will say More 
 Controls.  You will then be able to add pages by clicking on the + in the 
 Book header and you can also duplicate pages from the menu in the header.



 More details are in the Etoy floss manual Chapter 
 5 http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/Etoys/Objects (search for book 
 within the page).


 Stephen

 On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com wrote:






 OK, so I have watched the tutorials and even looked at 2 books I have about 
 Squeak and still haven't found out how to make a multi-page book or slide 
 show like we want to do for the Water Lessons.

 Innocent that I am, I assumed that clicking on the page symbol (looks like a 
 page symbol used in other programs) would give me a new page.  I got what I 
 thought was a new page.  Constructed it and saved.  Then I discovered it 
 created a new project, not a new page!  Rats!

 Oh well, the page I lost was just the title page and it will be easy to 
 remake it.  However I would like to keep the second page I made, put the 
 title page before it and then add several more pages after.

 Is there a link to instructions for doing this?  I don't need to learn about 
 loops, variables, tiles and stuff like that... already know that and can, and 
 have, taught it.

 Caryl
   

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Re: [IAEP] Importing Photos to Etoys on Mac or PC, not running Sugar???? How To???

2011-01-24 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Caryl,

I am working on a MacBook Pro running OX 10.6.6 and Etoys 4.1.
Just like in Sugar, I just drag the photo onto Etoys and it is imported.
I do the same in Windows.

Hope this helps.
Gerald

On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 8:11 PM, Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com wrote:

  Hi Folks,


 What is the method for importing a photo to Etoys when working on a Mac or
 PC?  I found instructions for doing it in Sugar, but not elsewhere.


 Thanks,


 Caryl

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Re: [IAEP] [support-gang] Communities around technology for learning (was: Re: When teaching restrains discovery)

2011-01-22 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Edward,

I like your idea. And plan on setting up a blog, or other site, where
the students I am working with could share with one another about
their experiences with the XOs.

Gerald

On Saturday, January 22, 2011, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have suggested creating a walled garden Web site for all OLPC
 children. We can discuss whether teachers should be allowed in, but
 definitely no parents. ^_^ They should have their own place to discuss
 whatever concerns them. Education, poverty, government corruption,
 international e-commerce...

 On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 17:32, Christoph Derndorfer
 e0425...@student.tuwien.ac.at wrote:
 I finally got around to reading Claudia's article and one of the core
 take-aways for me is that building communities (plural!) which help
 disseminate knowledge about how to use technology for learning is a
 core challenge which hasn't been sufficiently addressed yet.

 To me 2010 did show the first promises of this happening within the OLPC
 / Sugar community with collaboration starting between Plan Ceibal and
 ParaguayEduca, the work of organizations and communities such as
 ceibalJAM and RAP Ceibal, a better integration of Latin American
 contributors in the global community, eKindling's work in the
 Philippines, all the time Bernie, Daniel, Claudia, Walter and others are
 spending sharing with and learning from deployments, events such the
 community summit in San Francisco and the realness summit, the
 olpcMAP.net project, etc.

 And with some OLE Nepal staff having started the year by flying out to
 Rwanda to support the deployment there 2011 is also definitely beginning
 on a high-note.

 Having said that I personally feel that at the moment this network of
 networks (or community of communities, take your pick;-) is wide rather
 than deep - often seemingly ending at people living in capitals or major
 cities, being experienced with FLOSS and/or innovative education, etc.
 rather than reaching and benefiting the children, parents, teachers,
 principals, and administrators who are really the major stakeholders of
 education initiatives.

 I don't have a simple answer on how to deal with this (and who knows, it
 might just be an issue perceived by yours truly) but I think keeping it
 in the back of the head might be a start.

 Cheers,
 Christoph

 Am 20.01.2011 17:24, schrieb Holt:
 Thanks Bastien.  Back on the home front, also check out Claudia Urrea's
 (OLPC Assoc's Chief Learner ;) article today on one-to-one edutech etc:
 http://edutechdebate.org/ict-in-schools/technologies-for-learning-vs-learning-about-technology/

 On 1/20/2011 9:46 AM, Bastien wrote:
 Hi Christoph and all,

 I always enjoy those resources about education, thank you for the
 pointers -- and to everyone for the comments!

 Let me share two recent readings of mine:

 John Maeda : The Laws of Simplicity

    
 http://www.amazon.com/Laws-Simplicity-Design-Technology-Business/dp/0262134721

 My attention got caught when I saw John Maeda referring to Nicholas
 Negroponte in the chapter « Context ».  While discussing the importance
 of focusing, he mentions this advice from NN : Be as an electric bulb,
 not as a lazer ray.  Which I found to be quite an inspiring metaphor in
 the context of learning: let's all learn how to shed light on things as
 bulbs, taking care of others and the context, not as lazer ray, only
 taking care of the subject matter.

 George Steiner - « Éloge de la transmission - Le maître et l'élève »

    
 http://livre.fnac.com/a1904995/George-Steiner-Eloge-de-la-transmission-le-maitre-et-l-eleve

 (Sorry, only published in french.)

 In the debate about instructionisme vs. [constructionisme, project-based
 method, Montessori method, etc.], most people would certainly say that
 Steiner -- George, not Rudolph! -- is rather conservative, expressing
 opinions shared by teachers with a classical-instructionist attitude.
 The title of this book says it all.

 Still, he proposes a definition for what it is to be a master: it is
 someone from which students can always feel the love behind the irony.
 Of course, So--
 Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin
 Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
 The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
 http://www.earthtreasury.org/
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Re: [IAEP] Communities around technology for learning (was: Re: [support-gang] When teaching restrains discovery)

2011-01-21 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Christoph,

Thanks for your email.

I also got to read Claudia's article. I have been familiar with and inspired
by her research. In fact, in informed my doctoral dissertation, which
focused on the changes to the classroom learning environment through the use
of the XO laptops.

I have been participating in this community for about 2 years. I have
received much help and support and encouragement for which I am grateful.
But I have been reluctant to have my fellow teachers (who are less
technically inclined) to participate because of the frequently highly
technical and operational nature of many conversations.

I have been struggling with trying to include more teachers and students in
these conversations and in this community. I feel that their participation
would benefit many, and add to the depth you discussed.

I am now working with 5 schools in the US using XOs, and will try to find a
way for those teachers and students to participate.

Thanks.
Gerald

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Christoph Derndorfer
e0425...@student.tuwien.ac.at wrote:

I finally got around to reading Claudia's article and one of the core
take-aways for me is that building communities (plural!) which help
disseminate knowledge about how to use technology for learning is a
core challenge which hasn't been sufficiently addressed yet.

To me 2010 did show the first promises of this happening within the OLPC
/ Sugar community with collaboration starting between Plan Ceibal and
ParaguayEduca, the work of organizations and communities such as
ceibalJAM and RAP Ceibal, a better integration of Latin American
contributors in the global community, eKindling's work in the
Philippines, all the time Bernie, Daniel, Claudia, Walter and others are
spending sharing with and learning from deployments, events such the
community summit in San Francisco and the realness summit, the
olpcMAP.net project, etc.

And with some OLE Nepal staff having started the year by flying out to
Rwanda to support the deployment there 2011 is also definitely beginning
on a high-note.

Having said that I personally feel that at the moment this network of
networks (or community of communities, take your pick;-) is wide rather
than deep - often seemingly ending at people living in capitals or major
cities, being experienced with FLOSS and/or innovative education, etc.
rather than reaching and benefiting the children, parents, teachers,
principals, and administrators who are really the major stakeholders of
education initiatives.

I don't have a simple answer on how to deal with this (and who knows, it
might just be an issue perceived by yours truly) but I think keeping it
in the back of the head might be a start.

Cheers,
Christoph

Am 20.01.2011 17:24, schrieb Holt:
Thanks Bastien. Back on the home front, also check out Claudia Urrea's
(OLPC Assoc's Chief Learner ;) article today on one-to-one edutech etc:

http://edutechdebate.org/ict-in-schools/technologies-for-learning-vs-learning-about-technology/

On 1/20/2011 9:46 AM, Bastien wrote:
Hi Christoph and all,

I always enjoy those resources about education, thank you for the
pointers -- and to everyone for the comments!

Let me share two recent readings of mine:

John Maeda : The Laws of Simplicity

http://www.amazon.com/Laws-Simplicity-Design-Technology-Business/dp/0262134721

My attention got caught when I saw John Maeda referring to Nicholas
Negroponte in the chapter « Context ». While discussing the importance
of focusing, he mentions this advice from NN : Be as an electric bulb,
not as a lazer ray. Which I found to be quite an inspiring metaphor in
the context of learning: let's all learn how to shed light on things as
bulbs, taking care of others and the context, not as lazer ray, only
taking care of the subject matter.

George Steiner - « Éloge de la transmission - Le maître et l'élève »

http://livre.fnac.com/a1904995/George-Steiner-Eloge-de-la-transmission-le-maitre-et-l-eleve

(Sorry, only published in french.)

In the debate about instructionisme vs. [constructionisme, project-based
method, Montessori method, etc.], most people would certainly say that
Steiner -- George, not Rudolph! -- is rather conservative, expressing
opinions shared by teachers with a classical-instructionist attitude.
The title of this book says it all.

Still, he proposes a definition for what it is to be a master: it is
someone from which students can always feel the love behind the irony.
Of course, Socrates comes to mind as a master of both irony and love
towards its pupils -- I bet Steiner would agree.

I like this definition. It is general enough to escape the opposition
between instructionism / [constructionisme, ...]. But still, I feel
this definition captures something essential that any teacher could
fruitfully think about.

My 2 cents,

--
Christoph Derndorfer
co-editor, www.olpcnews.com
e-mail:

Re: [IAEP] reluctant/proactive leader

2011-01-21 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Yama,

Your response actually gave me an idea.
In the various situations in which I have worked, I have been able to
develop students (even at ages 9 and 10) to be real leaders. Perhaps they
are the way in to this dilemma.
I will find a way to add them to this community.
Perhaps, just as in the classroom, when teachers (and others) find the
students participating so actively and responsibly, they will be called to
join in?

What do you think.
Gerald

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Yamandu Ploskonka yamap...@gmail.comwrote:


 On 01/21/2011 08:54 AM, Dr. Gerald Ardito wrote originally about something
 else, but said there:

 I have been participating in this community for about 2 years. I have
 received much help and support and encouragement for which I am grateful.
 But I have been reluctant to have my fellow teachers (who are less
 technically inclined) to participate because of the frequently highly
 technical and operational nature of many conversations.


  I am lost for words. So totally lost for words.

 What kind of a community you would *not* feel reluctant to have your
 teachers participate?

 IAEP is as common ground as you possibly can get.  Or are you talking
 about the support gang?  There I can understand sort of maybe, though all
 kinds of people can benefit to lurk there, and even contribute - maybe they
 just need to be given a chance, and they will flourish!

 Of course there is a continuum for the choices an education administrator
 can make, from wholesale advocacy for participating in all and every
 community (probably not wise), to a complete ban and prohibition leading to
 termination for those caught connecting with strangers.

 Somewhere along the middle I suspect most deployments just do not encourage
 enough nor their leaders model participation (the later not your case,
 Gerald, you do participate generously of your time and experience).
 I am amazed that, for example, Ceibal has over 14.000 teachers with
 connectivity, and apparently less than 3% have ever signed up to a list or
 open forum.  Peru's emails set up for their project often returned a box
 full error.

 I am convinced that one of the the main lessons to be learned through this
 Education Project is precisely about remote collaboration. It hasn't taken
 off yet, and I wonder how we can help it happen.  How can we bridge real
 issues like fear of reprisals, fear to seem dumb? Lack of time (real, or
 imagined for people that otherwise spend hours by the TV or Faisbuk)?
 Relevant, interesting communication? The next step: kids collaborating
 beyond their bailiwick?

 Yama
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Re: [IAEP] reluctant/proactive leader

2011-01-21 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Yama,

Thanks for your kind words.

Onward and upward!

Gerald


On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Yamandu Ploskonka yamap...@gmail.comwrote:

  WOW!

 you *are* a Courageous Leader! (not to be confused with a N k0rea title
 :-)

 which reminds me of an excerpt from Krishnamurti that I have had doing the
 rounds, precisely on how younger people have an easier time collaborating
 than so-called adults.  Because of its potential OT nature, I am copying it
 below the fold to mitigate offense - I put in bold the relevant part, to
 make the load lighter... :-)

 BTW, reading in between the lines, it turns out it was not that *you* were
 reluctant, but rather your teachers?  Nice of you to take up the blame. I
 feel so encouraged by your attitude, and much honored to learn from you

 Yama


 On 01/21/2011 10:04 AM, Dr. Gerald Ardito wrote:

 Yama,

 Your response actually gave me an idea.
 In the various situations in which I have worked, I have been able to
 develop students (even at ages 9 and 10) to be real leaders. Perhaps they
 are the way in to this dilemma.
 I will find a way to add them to this community.
 Perhaps, just as in the classroom, when teachers (and others) find the
 students participating so actively and responsibly, they will be called to
 join in?

 What do you think.
 Gerald


 one of my favorite blogs, framablog.org, had recently a version of this
 text by Krishnamurti.  Since great friends Padmanabha and Rama Rao run the
 Krishnamurti school in India, it all came together to make me wish to share
 this with y'all - the subject matter is something we all wonder a lot about:
 *the purpose of education, cooperation...*

 
 One of the basic problems confronting the world is the problem of
 cooperation. What does the word cooperation mean? To cooperate is to do
 things together, to build together, to feel together, to have something in
 common so that we can freely work together.

 But people generally don't feel inclined to work together naturally,
 easily, happily; and so they are compelled to work together through various
 inducements: threat, fear, punishment, reward. This is the common practice
 throughout the world. Under tyrannical governments you are brutally forced
 to work together; if you don't cooperate you are liquidated or sent to a
 concentration camp. In the so-called civilized nations you are induced to
 work together through the concept of my country, or for an ideology which
 has been very carefully worked out and widely propagated so that you accept
 it; or you work together to carry out a plan which somebody has drawn up, a
 blueprint for Utopia.

 So, it is the plan, the idea, the authority which induces people to work
 together. This is generally called cooperation, and in it there is always
 the implication of reward or punishment, which means that behind such
 cooperation there is fear. You are always working for something--for the
 country, for the king, for the party, for God or the Master, for peace, or
 to bring about this or that reform. Your idea of cooperation is to work
 together for a particular result. You have an ideal--to build a perfect
 school, or what you will--towards which you are working, therefore you say
 cooperation is necessary. All this implies authority, does it not? There is
 always someone who is supposed to know what is the right thing to do, and
 therefore you say, We must cooperate in carrying it out.

 Now, I don't call that cooperation at all. That is not cooperation, it is a
 form of greed, a form of fear, compulsion. Behind it there is the threat
 that if you don't cooperate the government won't recognize you, or the
 Five Year Plan will fail, or you will be sent to a concentration camp, or
 your country will lose the war, or you may not go to heaven. There is always
 some form of inducement, and where there is inducement there cannot be real
 cooperation.

 Nor is it cooperation when you and I work together merely because we have
 mutually agreed to do something. In any such agreement what is important is
 the doing of that particular thing, not working together. You and I may
 agree to build a bridge, or construct a road, or plant some trees together,
 but in that agreement there is always the fear of disagreement, the fear
 that I may not do my share and let you do the whole thing.

 So it is not cooperation when we work together through any form of
 inducement, or by mere agreement, because behind all such effort there is
 the implication of gaining or avoiding something.

 To me, cooperation is entirely different. Cooperation is the fun of being
 and doing together--not necessarily doing something in particular. Do you
 understand? *Young children normally have a feeling for being and doing
 together. Haven't you noticed this? They will cooperate in anything. There
 is no question of agreement or disagreement, reward or punishment; they just
 want to help. They cooperate instinctively, for the fun of being and doing
 together

Re: [IAEP] [realness] a school is not a building

2010-12-06 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

I think back to the various work (especially Piaget, Vygotsky, and Papert)
that investigates learning as a social phenomenon.
The XO Laptops and Sugar derive directly, in my humble opinion, from these
principles, especially Papert's concept of Constructionism.
The issue for me, then, is not schools versus laptops (or some other
technology), but how these devices and their software can be used to shape
the learning environment itself.
I have seen classrooms in my school change (in terms of student
independence) as a result of the students being deeply engaged with the XOs
and Sugar. This change has been reflected in both the students and their
teachers.
I think more focus should be spent on this ecosystem of learning.

Best,
Gerald

On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:51 PM, Blake Elias blakeel...@gmail.com wrote:

It's not that Ministries of Education should *stop* their core
activities, but another possibility to consider before *starting*.

A physical school where children can learn and work together is
wonderful. In some situations where it's a struggle to build a
physical school, where it really may be a dichotomy between
buildings/laptops because of the expense, maybe they want to make
digital collaboration their main goal instead of building with brick
and mortar.

Blake Elias

On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com wrote:
What he said. I hate false dichotomies. They abound in discussions of
education and in the politics of education, indeed in any situation
where the more extreme the position, the more likely it is to be
heard.

On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 18:04, Ian Thomson i...@spc.int wrote:
Personally, I think the whole approach is wrong. You will never convince
Ministries of Education to stop their core activities just because
there are laptops.

The better approach is to show how laptops can enhance education in
schools.
This should not be an either/or approach. We can do both.

As a simple example, children can leave the school earlier after
suitable teaching and complete work on the laptops at home or other
locations. This will free up the school to take a second shift of
students.
Teachers can restructure their teaching to have groups working together
to learn, so freeing them up to take more students.

Ian Thomson
ICT Outreach Section
Economic Development Division
Secretariat of the Pacific Community
B.P. D5 - Noumea Cedex - 98848
New Caledonia

Phone +687-265419

Fax +687 26 38 18
http://www.spc.int

-Original Message-
From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org
[mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Innocenti
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 8:36 AM
To: Timothy Falconer
Cc: olpc-ha...@lists.laptop.org; grassroots OLPC;
olpc-o...@lists.laptop.org; Squeakland List; Maho 2010; IAEP;
ht2011-win...@waveplace.org
Subject: Re: [IAEP] [realness] a school is not a building

On Sun, 2010-12-05 at 15:18 -0500, Timothy Falconer wrote:
Hi all,

A favor: help me make this case (or refute it) as we prepare once
more for Haiti ... spend money on training laptops instead bricks
and mortar.

http://waveplace.com/news/blog/archive/001035.jsp

It's a beautiful thought that touches deep into my hacker spirit, but
the conclusion seems weak: what is it that we are advocating for? Remote
learning? Home-schooling? Having classes under a tree? It's unclear.

The point that you were making with the military canteen vs cooking at
home metaphor is that compulsory education doesn't follow individual
inclinations. Then, the conclusion should state the proposed solution
for this problem.

--
// Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/
\X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

--
Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin
Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation.
The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination.
http://www.earthtreasury.org/
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] votes you missed

2010-12-03 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

+1 to all motions from me as well.

Gerald

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 8:06 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 In case you are interested in casting your vote on the 3 motions we
 passed (Please see
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board/Meeting_Minutes-2010-12-01),
 please send email to SLOBs.

 Our next meeting is scheduled for Thursday, 9 December 2010 at 20UTC
 (15 EST). Hope to see you in #sugar-meeting (or #sugar-meeting-es).

 regards.

 -walter

 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org
 ___
 IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
 IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Etoys, is it difficult or easy?

2010-09-28 Thread Dr. Gerald Ardito

Alan,

Thanks so much.
I am sure this will work well for us.

Best,
Gerald

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 9:52 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote:

 It's the make a car you can drive yourself one which starts with the
 painting of a car, scripting it to go in a circle, steering by modifying the
 script on the fly, adding a steering wheel, moving the steering wheel's
 heading to the car turn by, making a gear by dividing the heading by 3,
 making a car that will follow a track, etc.

 This has proved to be a great opening sequence with most 5th graders, and
 it goes best with one on one guidance. They learn a lot of things about
 Etoys (we counted about 35) and the next few months projects can be done
 with what they encounter in their first half hour or so.

 It is extremely difficult to pull off in a mass class with either children
 or adults because of the range of pace and what it takes for individuals to
 get it, and what questions and prompts they need. Kind of a perfect example
 where mass class loses badly and one on one is very efficient and
 effective.

 Cheers,

 Alan

 --
 *From:* Dr. Gerald Ardito gerald.ard...@gmail.com
 *To:* Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com
 *Cc:* Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com; Cherry Withers 
 cwith...@ekindling.org; danielgast...@yahoo.com.ar; Tim McNamara 
 paperl...@timmcnamara.co.nz; Steve Thomas stevesar...@gmail.com; iaep 
 iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
 *Sent:* Mon, September 27, 2010 6:00:52 PM

 *Subject:* Re: [IAEP] Etoys, is it difficult or easy?

 Alan,

 Thanks for this.
 I am just beginning to work with our 5th grade students and teachers and
 will put this into action.

 One question for you, if I may. Can you tell me about the first Etoys
 lesson you mentioned (with 35 things in 30 minutes)?

 Thanks again.
 Gerald

 On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 7:51 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Hi Gerald,

 Yes, I think the experts approach is a good one also -- we first saw it
 used by Betty Edwards (the drawing teacher) and it works very well if the
 ratio is about 1 expert to 6 or 7 learners or better.

 And we have tried this with Etoys (mostly on adult teachers).

 However, of all the ways we've tried, doing one on ones, and then using
 the new learners as one on one teachers for the next group (so you are
 doubling each time) works the best (and is also the most efficient with
 regard to how much time it takes to successfully do the first Etoys exercise
 -- in which the learners do and learn about 35 things in about 30 minutes).

 Best regards,

 Alan

 --
 *From:* Dr. Gerald Ardito gerald.ard...@gmail.com
 *To:* Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com
 *Cc:* Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com; Cherry Withers 
 cwith...@ekindling.org; danielgast...@yahoo.com.ar; Tim McNamara 
 paperl...@timmcnamara.co.nz; Steve Thomas stevesar...@gmail.com; iaep
 iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
 *Sent:* Mon, September 27, 2010 4:31:13 PM

 *Subject:* Re: [IAEP] Etoys, is it difficult or easy?

 Alan,

 First, I just want to clarify that I meant challenged in a positive way.
 The 5th graders dove into Etoys first through painting, and then through
 scripting. However, I agree with what you say about artifacts of a
 pedagogical approach. We saw this, too.

 Our learning situation involved 4-6 student experts with whom I spent
 time showing them the key elements of Etoys needed to begin the project.
 Then, when we introduced this project to larger class, these experts were
 free to move around the room helping other students.

 We found this model to be a good one for generating a very productive
 classroom environment with the XOs (in fact, it was the topic of my
 dissertation which I completed last May). However, I wished we had spent
 more time with the scripting piece. We had not developed those skills
 enough.

 Thanks.
 Gerald

 On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I'd be curious to hear what the process is with the 5th graders. These
 were our main subjects. We worked only through regular classroom teachers
 (who had been carefully coached). You will not see any challenged 5th
 graders if you use a one on one session with them for about 20-30 minutes.
 The best way to do this is to teach a few this way, and then use a
 spreading wave of one on ones. We found that this was much better with both
 children and adults than to try to teach all of them in mass.

 So you might be seeing artifacts of pedagogical approach here (and a lot
 of challenged students result from such artifacts).

 Cheers,

 Alan

 --
 *From:* Dr. Gerald Ardito gerald.ard...@gmail.com
 *To:* Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com
 *Cc:* Cherry Withers cwith...@ekindling.org;
 danielgast...@yahoo.com.ar; Tim McNamara paperl...@timmcnamara.co.nz;
 Steve Thomas stevesar...@gmail.com; iaep iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
 *Sent:* Mon, September 27, 2010 2:29:57 PM

 *Subject:* Re: [IAEP] Etoys

Re: [IAEP] Etoys, is it difficult or easy?

Caroline,

You are remembering well. And I agree with your hypothesis.

The 5th graders took pretty well to Etoys. It is the drawing piece that
hooks them, and then the scripting part that really challenges them. And the
7th and 8th graders love Scratch. It is interesting to me because they also
do plenty of painting of sprites and backgrounds, but something about the
bricks seems to match their thinking process.

I am getting ready to introduce my current 7th grade classes to Scratch and
am looking forward to that.

Thanks.
Gerald

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com
wrote:

Gerald did some interesting work last year introducing both Scratch and
eToys to 5th and 8th graders.

Gerald please correct me if I am misremembering.

I think the results were the 8th graders took to Scratch more and the 5th
graders took to eToys more.

Our hypothesis is that the first thing you do with eToys in draw and that
is very accessible to 5th graders. They can engage with the system before
they have to start understanding programming.

On the other hand 8th graders were directly ready to engage with
programming and had a easier/faster time picking that up with Scratch.

This is very much a hypothesis, not proven and not based on much data but
it would be interesting to explore further.

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.comwrote:

OK, I'll send it to you separately. Anybody else is still welcome to join
in.

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 20:47, Steve Thomas stevesar...@gmail.com
wrote:
Edward,
Thanks, please send me the outline and what you think needs to be more
easily discoverable and I will work on it.
Stephen

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com
wrote:

It is true that you can do all of these things in EToys, if you know
where to start. It is also true that the start screen of EToys could
be improved by providing a path to each of them, and to other
education modules, and Etoys could be improved with a few more
introductory modules.

Since children and untrained teachers cannot be expected to discover
these paths, and paths in other Activities, on their own, I am in the
middle of writing a guide to Discovery on the XO. The starting point
is my Wiki page,

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_Undiscoverable

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick
The undiscoverable is an unofficial FAQ for tips, tricks, and
solutions to common problems that may otherwise be tricky to find.
These are being considered for inclusion in the official SoaS
documentation.

The Etoys section needs vast expansion. I have an outline in mind,
which I can share with anybody who would like to work on it.

On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 15:59, Tim McNamara
paperl...@timmcnamara.co.nz
wrote:
The analogy doesn't quite fit, as it's possible to do complex things
in
all
of those tools and it's easy to do simple things in EToys. Each
Activity
can
be used in this learning model, e.g. training wheels to motorbike.

Tim

On 25 September 2010 05:48, Cherry Withers cwith...@ekindling.org
wrote:

And Scratch? ... don't remember where I read it, but it sounded
logical
to me.
Use progressively difficult tools for progressively difficult tasks.
To confirm this statement, I add the phrase: Visible learning,
invisible
technology.
Children would first learn TurtleArt.
When they outgrow it switch to Scratch.
When all its possibilities are exhausted, continue with eToys.

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

--
Caroline Meeks
Solution Grove
carol...@solutiongrove.com

617-500-3488 - Office
505-213-3268 - Fax

___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep

Re: [IAEP] Etoys, is it difficult or easy?

Alan,

First, I just want to clarify that I meant challenged in a positive way.
The 5th graders dove into Etoys first through painting, and then through
scripting. However, I agree with what you say about artifacts of a
pedagogical approach. We saw this, too.

Our learning situation involved 4-6 student experts with whom I spent time
showing them the key elements of Etoys needed to begin the project. Then,
when we introduced this project to larger class, these experts were free
to move around the room helping other students.

We found this model to be a good one for generating a very productive
classroom environment with the XOs (in fact, it was the topic of my
dissertation which I completed last May). However, I wished we had spent
more time with the scripting piece. We had not developed those skills
enough.

Thanks.
Gerald

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I'd be curious to hear what the process is with the 5th graders. These were
 our main subjects. We worked only through regular classroom teachers (who
 had been carefully coached). You will not see any challenged 5th graders
 if you use a one on one session with them for about 20-30 minutes. The best
 way to do this is to teach a few this way, and then use a spreading wave
 of one on ones. We found that this was much better with both children and
 adults than to try to teach all of them in mass.

 So you might be seeing artifacts of pedagogical approach here (and a lot of
 challenged students result from such artifacts).

 Cheers,

 Alan

 --
 *From:* Dr. Gerald Ardito gerald.ard...@gmail.com
 *To:* Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com
 *Cc:* Cherry Withers cwith...@ekindling.org; danielgast...@yahoo.com.ar;
 Tim McNamara paperl...@timmcnamara.co.nz; Steve Thomas 
 stevesar...@gmail.com; iaep iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
 *Sent:* Mon, September 27, 2010 2:29:57 PM

 *Subject:* Re: [IAEP] Etoys, is it difficult or easy?

 Caroline,

 You are remembering well. And I agree with your hypothesis.

 The 5th graders took pretty well to Etoys. It is the drawing piece that
 hooks them, and then the scripting part that really challenges them. And the
 7th and 8th graders love Scratch. It is interesting to me because they also
 do plenty of painting of sprites and backgrounds, but something about the
 bricks seems to match their thinking process.

 I am getting ready to introduce my current 7th grade classes to Scratch and
 am looking forward to that.

 Thanks.
 Gerald

 On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Caroline Meeks 
 carol...@solutiongrove.com wrote:

 Gerald did some interesting work last year introducing both Scratch and
 eToys to 5th and 8th graders.

 Gerald please correct me if I am misremembering.

 I think the results were the 8th graders took to Scratch more and the 5th
 graders took to eToys more.

 Our hypothesis is that the first thing you do with eToys in draw and that
 is very accessible to 5th graders. They can engage with the system before
 they have to start understanding programming.

 On the other hand 8th graders were directly ready to engage with
 programming and had a easier/faster time picking that up with Scratch.

 This is very much a hypothesis, not proven and not based on much data but
 it would be interesting to explore further.

 On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.comwrote:

 OK, I'll send it to you separately. Anybody else is still welcome to join
 in.

 On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 20:47, Steve Thomas stevesar...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Edward,
  Thanks, please send me the outline and what you think needs to be more
  easily discoverable and I will work on it.
  Stephen
 
  On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  It is true that you can do all of these things in EToys, if you know
  where to start. It is also true that the start screen of EToys could
  be improved by providing a path to each of them, and to other
  education modules, and Etoys could be improved with a few more
  introductory modules.
 
  Since children and untrained teachers cannot be expected to discover
  these paths, and paths in other Activities, on their own, I am in the
  middle of writing a guide to Discovery on the XO. The starting point
  is my Wiki page,
 
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/The_Undiscoverable
 
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick
  The undiscoverable  is an unofficial FAQ for tips, tricks, and
  solutions to common problems that may otherwise be tricky to find.
  These are being considered for inclusion in the official SoaS
  documentation.
 
  The Etoys section needs vast expansion. I have an outline in mind,
  which I can share with anybody who would like to work on it.
 
  On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 15:59, Tim McNamara 
 paperl...@timmcnamara.co.nz
  wrote:
   The analogy doesn't quite fit, as it's possible to do complex things
 in
   all
   of those tools and it's easy to do simple things in EToys. Each

Re: [IAEP] Etoys, is it difficult or easy?

Alan,

Thanks for this.
I am just beginning to work with our 5th grade students and teachers and
will put this into action.

One question for you, if I may. Can you tell me about the first Etoys lesson
you mentioned (with 35 things in 30 minutes)?

Thanks again.
Gerald

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 7:51 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Hi Gerald,

 Yes, I think the experts approach is a good one also -- we first saw it
 used by Betty Edwards (the drawing teacher) and it works very well if the
 ratio is about 1 expert to 6 or 7 learners or better.

 And we have tried this with Etoys (mostly on adult teachers).

 However, of all the ways we've tried, doing one on ones, and then using the
 new learners as one on one teachers for the next group (so you are doubling
 each time) works the best (and is also the most efficient with regard to how
 much time it takes to successfully do the first Etoys exercise -- in which
 the learners do and learn about 35 things in about 30 minutes).

 Best regards,

 Alan

 --
 *From:* Dr. Gerald Ardito gerald.ard...@gmail.com
 *To:* Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com
 *Cc:* Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com; Cherry Withers 
 cwith...@ekindling.org; danielgast...@yahoo.com.ar; Tim McNamara 
 paperl...@timmcnamara.co.nz; Steve Thomas stevesar...@gmail.com; iaep 
 iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
 *Sent:* Mon, September 27, 2010 4:31:13 PM

 *Subject:* Re: [IAEP] Etoys, is it difficult or easy?

 Alan,

 First, I just want to clarify that I meant challenged in a positive way.
 The 5th graders dove into Etoys first through painting, and then through
 scripting. However, I agree with what you say about artifacts of a
 pedagogical approach. We saw this, too.

 Our learning situation involved 4-6 student experts with whom I spent
 time showing them the key elements of Etoys needed to begin the project.
 Then, when we introduced this project to larger class, these experts were
 free to move around the room helping other students.

 We found this model to be a good one for generating a very productive
 classroom environment with the XOs (in fact, it was the topic of my
 dissertation which I completed last May). However, I wished we had spent
 more time with the scripting piece. We had not developed those skills
 enough.

 Thanks.
 Gerald

 On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I'd be curious to hear what the process is with the 5th graders. These
 were our main subjects. We worked only through regular classroom teachers
 (who had been carefully coached). You will not see any challenged 5th
 graders if you use a one on one session with them for about 20-30 minutes.
 The best way to do this is to teach a few this way, and then use a
 spreading wave of one on ones. We found that this was much better with both
 children and adults than to try to teach all of them in mass.

 So you might be seeing artifacts of pedagogical approach here (and a lot
 of challenged students result from such artifacts).

 Cheers,

 Alan

 --
 *From:* Dr. Gerald Ardito gerald.ard...@gmail.com
 *To:* Caroline Meeks carol...@solutiongrove.com
 *Cc:* Cherry Withers cwith...@ekindling.org; danielgast...@yahoo.com.ar;
 Tim McNamara paperl...@timmcnamara.co.nz; Steve Thomas 
 stevesar...@gmail.com; iaep iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org
 *Sent:* Mon, September 27, 2010 2:29:57 PM

 *Subject:* Re: [IAEP] Etoys, is it difficult or easy?

 Caroline,

 You are remembering well. And I agree with your hypothesis.

 The 5th graders took pretty well to Etoys. It is the drawing piece that
 hooks them, and then the scripting part that really challenges them. And the
 7th and 8th graders love Scratch. It is interesting to me because they also
 do plenty of painting of sprites and backgrounds, but something about the
 bricks seems to match their thinking process.

 I am getting ready to introduce my current 7th grade classes to Scratch
 and am looking forward to that.

 Thanks.
 Gerald

 On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Caroline Meeks 
 carol...@solutiongrove.com wrote:

 Gerald did some interesting work last year introducing both Scratch and
 eToys to 5th and 8th graders.

 Gerald please correct me if I am misremembering.

 I think the results were the 8th graders took to Scratch more and the 5th
 graders took to eToys more.

 Our hypothesis is that the first thing you do with eToys in draw and that
 is very accessible to 5th graders. They can engage with the system before
 they have to start understanding programming.

 On the other hand 8th graders were directly ready to engage with
 programming and had a easier/faster time picking that up with Scratch.

 This is very much a hypothesis, not proven and not based on much data but
 it would be interesting to explore further.

 On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Edward Cherlin echer...@gmail.comwrote:

 OK, I'll send it to you separately. Anybody else is still welcome to
 join in.

 On Sat, Sep 25, 2010

Re: [IAEP] Etoys, is it difficult or easy?