Re: [IAEP] [SoaS] Announcement: Sugar on a Stick (SoaS) 34 released today
On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 10:42 PM Alex Perez wrote: > > Folks, > > Fedora 34 was released today, which means that we've got a new release > of Sugar on a Stick 34, which includes Sugar 0.118, and can be > downloaded from: > > https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/34/Spins/x86_64/iso/Fedora-SoaS-Live-x86_64-34-1.2.iso > > It's one gigabyte in size. > > ..and written to any USB stick using BalenaEtcher, Fedora Imager Writer, > or whatever your favorite/preferred image writing tool is. > > > an installation image (non-live environment) for 32-bit ARM devices, > such as the Raspberry Pi 2-3, is also available at: > > https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/34/Spins/armhfp/images/Fedora-SoaS-34-1.2.armhfp.raw.xz > The above image is 1.8 gigabytes. You also forgot the new kid for F-34 the aarch64 image: https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora-secondary/releases/34/Spins/aarch64/images/Fedora-SoaS-34-1.2.aarch64.raw.xz > Special thanks to Sugar Labs member and contributor Ibiam Chihurumnaya, > AKA 'chimosky', for co-maintaining many/most of these Fedora activities, > as well as the core Sugar Fedora packages, which, as a whole, make up > Sugar on a Stick. > > Regards, > Alex Perez > Sugar Labs Contributor & Fedora Package Wrangler > > ___ > SoaS mailing list > s...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/soas ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [SoaS] Call for testing of Fedora 34 beta Sugar On A Stick
> This is a call for testing of the upcoming Fedora 34 based Sugar on a Stick, > which is now ready for testing on the following platforms: > > For 64-bit PCs, the ISO can be downloaded from: > > https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/34_Beta-1.3/Spins/x86_64/iso/Fedora-SoaS-Live-x86_64-34_Beta-1.3.iso > > The installer based version of SoaS for 32-bit ARM can be downloaded from > https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/34_Beta-1.3/Spins/armhfp/images/Fedora-SoaS-34_Beta-1.3.armhfp.raw.xz > > ...and finally, we have a new variant of SoaS for 64-bit ARM devices, which > is also installer-based, and available for download at > https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/34_Beta-1.3/Spins/aarch64/images/Fedora-SoaS-34_Beta-1.3.aarch64.raw.xz > > Please test on real hardware if possible. All you need to do is download and > write the image to a USB stick, with Fedora Media Writer, which can be > downloaded from https://github.com/FedoraQt/MediaWriter/releases/tag/4.2.0 So the arm images aren't actually installer images, they're pre installed images so similar to live images, details for installing them are at the following link and I believe the Media Writer can be used for images destined to run on Raspberry Pis https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM/Installation ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [SoaS] Fedora 32 Sugar on a Stick beta ISO ready for testing
> Fedora 32 has entered beta state, and the Sugar on a Stick beta ISO (size is > 1 gigabyte) can be downloaded from http://bit.ly/SoaS-F32-Beta-ISO > > One known issue is that the IRC activity fails to start, and can not be used, > as it's not yet been ported to Python 3. There's currently 4 Activities in the Beta that aren't moved to Python3. They will be dropped from the live image if they're not fixed by the Final freeze comes into place. > The current target final release date for Fedora 32 is Tuesday, April 21st, > though this may change if need be. The development freeze comes into force on Tue 2020-04-07 so everything should be fixed by then, anything after that point needs bug reports and to go through an exception process to get in. > Please test on real hardware if possible, and send/provide reports to > s...@lists.sugarlabs.org as necessary. > ___ > SoaS mailing list > s...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/soas ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [SoaS] [Sugar-devel] Fedora 30 SoaS (Sugar on A Stick) final released
On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 4:07 PM Walter Bender wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 10:58 AM Alex Perez wrote: >> >> The Fedora 30 release was earlier today, and with it comes the Fedora 30 >> Sugar on a Stick environment, which now has functional collaboration, out of >> the box. It includes Sugar 0.113, which incorporates the necessary fixes. >> >> >> For those who would like to try or use Fedora 30 Sugar on a Stick, you can >> download these ISO images, and use DD, win32diskimager, or your preferred >> raw image writing utility to stick the contents on a USB drive. >> Alternatively, the two ISOs below can be booted as a Virtual Machine, using >> VirtualBox, Parallels, Hyper-V, and other virtualization software. >> >> Here are your download links: >> >> https://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/30/Spins/x86_64/iso/Fedora-SoaS-Live-x86_64-30-1.2.iso >> <<--- this link did not work > > > https://mirrors.rit.edu/fedora/fedora/linux//releases/30/Spins/x86_64/iso/Fedora-SoaS-Live-x86_64-30-1.2.iso > <<--- this link works The first link sends a redirect to the closest mirror, while the mirror manager is pretty good it might be catching up due to load of release, and the first link is likely still good for a lot of people depending on where you are. >> https://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora-secondary/releases/30/Spins/i386/iso/Fedora-SoaS-Live-i386-30-1.2.iso >> >> https://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/30/Spins/armhfp/images/Fedora-SoaS-armhfp-30-1.2-sda.raw.xz >> >> ___ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > > ___ > SoaS mailing list > s...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/soas ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [SoaS] Fedora 30 (Release Candidate 1) SoaS images ready for testing
On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 6:28 PM Alex Perez wrote: > > Folks, > > > Just under the wire, we have managed to get some critical Sugar on a Stick > issues fixed, which are now included in Fedora 30 SoaS images. I would like > to extend a very special thanks to Peter Robinson, who took time out of his > busy schedule to assist in getting the Fedora packages updated with the > necessary fixes and patches. Thank you, Peter. This will be the first Fedora > SoaS in several releases to have functional collaboration within Sugar, and > it is thanks to your work, as well as community testers who take the time to > test these new packages, and report back with the results. > > For those who would like to test ot use Fedora 30 Sugar on a Stick, Release > Candidate 1, you can download these ISO images, and use DD, win32diskimager, > or your preferred raw image writing utility to stick the contents on a USB > drive. Alternatively, these ISOs can be booted as a Virtual Machine, using > VirtualBox, Parallels, Hyper-V, and other virtualization software. > > Here are your download links: > > For 32-bit machines: http://bit.ly/Fedora-30-RC1-SoaS-32-bit (891 megabyte > ISO) > For 64-bit machines: http://bit.ly/Fedora-30-RC1-SoaS-64-bit (942 megabytes) Arm image for those that might be interested in using as Raspberry Pi or similar device: https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/30_RC-1.1/Spins/armhfp/images/Fedora-SoaS-armhfp-30-1.1-sda.raw.xz > Here is what's been fixed: > > * Sugar 0.113 is included by default > * Collaboration works out of the box > * Able to connect to jabber.sugarlabs.org when configured (this is related to > the fix for collaboration, thanks to James Cameron for this) > * A patch/hotfix to 0.113, which resolves Sugar 0.113 starting up. Special > thanks to Rahul "Pro-Panda" Bothra for this contribution. > > > > The final release of Fedora 30 is expected to be made between April 30th and > May 7th, depending on a number of factors. The F30 release schedule is > documented at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/30/Schedule > > Regards, > Alex Perez > Sugar Labs Oversight Board Member > ___ > SoaS mailing list > s...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/soas ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [SoaS] SoaS frustrations & call for proposals
Can you please trim and summarise. That email was almost impossible to read. > This discussion started with Tony's reference to PIXEL, a live CD of the > Raspberry Pi OS. That led to a reference to Sugar on a Stick and a > discussion of its ease of installation. From there the discussion got split > as I addressed some technical issues on the SoaS mailing list, followed by > Caryl giving some insights on the suitability of SoaS in comparison to > Sugarizer. Peter responded with more information on the breadth of > technology currently served by SoaS, the Fedora-Sugar Labs spin of Sugar. > > So I've brought both threads together here by cross posting a transcript. That's not a transcript, it's a mess of hard to follow threads all pasted together. > Praise be, Sugarizer has made great steps toward Sugar Labs' technical goals > and deserves much greater investment as Caryl suggests. > > Yet there remains considerable value in the SoaS variants of Sugar, so > attention is still deserved there to support the needs of another class of > users and learners. > > To that end, I notice that the Fedora 26 proposal submission deadline is > fast approaching (21 Feb 2017) and so offer this thread and this feature > page for proposals. If there's going to be people putting in feature change requests they need to be the people doing them. The feature process isn't a means of requesting changes but rather an outline of the work someone is actually doing. > Thanks be given for your insights and efforts! ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] SoaS Review/Article
>>> Could someone following that more closely offer any additional details >>> and thoughts on possible paths into a easily accessible .108 release? >> >> I am one of the Fedora release engineers, you could not get any closer >> to the process. I would like to >> >> I'd like to see updated Activities released but they appear to not >> happened of late. >> http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/honey/ > > Peter, Thanks for the update on SOAS status in F24. I am much > comforted knowing that Sugar labs has a champion so close to the heart > of the process. > > I will see what I can do to get some new releases of Activities. I'm > the Sugar Labs Translation Community Manager and I've been recovering > and adding activities to our Pootle instance so I've been developing a > spreadsheet inventory of ASLO (mostly to track i18n/L10n status). I > hope to be landing new or improved PO files to a number of Activities, > which would be an excellent reason to do a new release. > > Is there a target date I should be aspiring to hit for poking activity > maintainers to make a new release? Yes, we freeze for Final on May 31st so to ensure they're stable in time I would want them by May 24th so we've got a bit over a week, I did request updates when I announced Alpha and have had no real response. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] SoaS Review/Article
On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 11:53 AM, T.K. Kang <tsi...@gmail.com> wrote: > Is there a working image? There should be. > Could not find it here ... > https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/24/latest-Fedora-/compose/Spins/x86_64/iso/ There's been issues with some changes to the compose made late on Friday so maybe look in the nightly F-24 branched compose at this link: https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/compose/branched/ > Can we get the .108 into Fedora 23 ? BTW the speak and record do not run > from the new SOAS I made. Not unless you want to step up and maintain it, I barely have time to do the new releases. > Cheers > > > On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 6:04 PM, Peter Robinson <pbrobin...@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> Fedora 24 >> >> On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 10:41 AM, T.K. Kang <tsi...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Great. It is sugar .106. Would like to use .108 sugar with better >> > network >> > connectivity. >> > Where can we get this build? >> > >> > Cheers >> > >> > On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 4:33 PM, Peter Robinson <pbrobin...@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/83446.html >> >> ___ >> >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >> >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> > >> > > > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] SoaS Review/Article
Fedora 24 On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 10:41 AM, T.K. Kang <tsi...@gmail.com> wrote: > Great. It is sugar .106. Would like to use .108 sugar with better network > connectivity. > Where can we get this build? > > Cheers > > On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 4:33 PM, Peter Robinson <pbrobin...@gmail.com> > wrote: >> >> http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/83446.html >> ___ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > > ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] SoaS Review/Article
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/83446.html ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] Sugar all-hands meeting
On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 6:28 PM, Samuel Greenfeld sam...@greenfeld.org wrote: I know there have been various board and development meetings for Sugar. But I would like to propose having an all-hands meeting where anyone in the Sugar community as well as related groups (deployments, schoolserver, etc.) could raise a topic and attend. If there are few enough people, we might be able to do this with a Google Hangout. For larger crowds we should try to get permission to use an international conference bridge (to avoid a dozen echo cancelers getting confused by each other). There are a lot of things that need to be done that I suspect could happen given a wider audience. What topics are you proposing to address or outline in such a call? Ultimately a all hands call needs to be well overseen to ensure that it's actually effective. I think the first part of that is to define what needs to be covered on such call. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] New Fedora Spins Site
On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Iain Brown Douglas i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote: On Tue, 2015-05-19 at 11:39 -0300, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: Iain, Sean, Sam, _Please_consolidate_the_changes_before_send_to_Peter_. Thanks, Gonzalo, is good advice. I've just spent two hours manually providing updates. It will be live on staging shortly. Please provide any further updates against that. My apologies to the other contributors, Sam, Walter and Sean for clouding their perfectly useful work. The text that I have called the Walter/Sam contribution is on this thread. Sean's improved text reads: #-# Sugar on a Stick is a Fedora-based operating system featuring the award-winning Sugar Learning Platform and designed to fit on an ordinary USB thumbdrive (stick). Sugar sets aside the traditional office-desktop metaphor, presenting a child-friendly simple graphical environment. Sugar automatically saves the child's progress to a Journal on your stick, so teachers and parents can easily pull up all collaborative web browsing sessions done in the past week or papers written with Daniel and Sarah in the last 24 hours with a simple query rather than memorizing complex file/folder structures. Applications in Sugar are known as Activities, some of which are described below. It is now deployable for the cost of a stick rather than a laptop; students can take their Sugar on a Stick thumbdrive to any machine - at school, at home, at a library or community center - and boot their customized computing environment without touching the host machine's hard disk or existing system at all. #-# I feel that this is the limit of my ability to achieve consensus. I have a plain text copy of the above two elements plus Sean's proof_reading_corrections, if it is required. Iain Peter, when need this be finished? Gonzalo On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 3:16 PM, Iain Brown Douglas i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote: On Tue, 2015-05-19 at 15:00 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: Hi Peter, On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 9:01 PM Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 5:58 AM, Iain Brown Douglas i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote: Thanks, Sean, for the careful proof reading. Fair copy attached. I originally included the section Multimedia, as it is the set of Activities in http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/ but not in the Walter/Sam contribution. I think it is the weakest section. Chat jars a bit on the page, as Chat is used in the Spins page template to refer to IRC. My memory is that Jukebox is not part of the core set (due to non-free components?). You're memory is wrong! It uses gstreamer and there a number of free codecs that come as standard. Thanks, Peter, for the correction. So as a heading, ==Multimedia== containing Jukebox, Record, Imageviewer you feel should remain? I really don't care what it's called but those three are staying, right where they are. A lot of people want to view photos, listen to music etc. As to what it's called, I'm not particularly bothered. Maybe you could download SoaS 22 and actually test it and see what's there! Perhaps the section Multimedia as it stands should be deleted. Not going to happen. This isn't time for bikeshedding, it's time for tweaking the content as it stands. Talking about the headers is not bikeshedding. The headers on the page are not very relevant to an education focused desktop environment - they are headers for a traditional dekstop environment. I was talking about Multimedia as it stands should be deleted so I have no idea why you're talking about the header names. I have stated before the header names need to be updated. I'm still awaiting what they should be updated to. ... awaiting? Understanding and creating content Learning by doing Getting technical Exploring the wider world Multimedia Reflection on what you've learned is from earlier contributions and both my attachments to this thread. As I've
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] New Fedora Spins Site
On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Iain Brown Douglas i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote: On Tue, 2015-05-19 at 19:57 +0200, Sean DALY wrote: Gonzalo - Iain had already consolidated all changes ... almost consolidated! Chat does not really fit in Multimedia, IMHO. It's not in Multimedia, it's in Going online. Make sure you force a reload on the page but Peter doesn't want to deal with a text file. Sean On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Iain, Sean, Sam, _Please_consolidate_the_changes_before_send_to_Peter_. Peter, when need this be finished? Gonzalo On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 3:16 PM, Iain Brown Douglas i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote: On Tue, 2015-05-19 at 15:00 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: Hi Peter, On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 9:01 PM Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 5:58 AM, Iain Brown Douglas i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote: Thanks, Sean, for the careful proof reading. Fair copy attached. I originally included the section Multimedia, as it is the set of Activities in http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/ but not in the Walter/Sam contribution. I think it is the weakest section. Chat jars a bit on the page, as Chat is used in the Spins page template to refer to IRC. My memory is that Jukebox is not part of the core set (due to non-free components?). You're memory is wrong! It uses gstreamer and there a number of free codecs that come as standard. Thanks, Peter, for the correction. So as a heading, ==Multimedia== containing Jukebox, Record, Imageviewer you feel should remain? I really don't care what it's called but those three are staying, right where they are. A lot of people want to view photos, listen to music etc. As to what it's called, I'm not particularly bothered. Maybe you could download SoaS 22 and actually test it and see what's there! Perhaps the section Multimedia as it stands should be deleted. Not going to happen. This isn't time for bikeshedding, it's time for tweaking the content as it stands. Talking about the headers is not bikeshedding. The headers on the page are not very relevant to an education focused desktop environment - they are headers for a traditional dekstop environment. I was talking about Multimedia as it stands should be deleted so I have no idea why you're talking about the header names. I have stated before the header names need to be updated. I'm still awaiting what they should be updated to. ... awaiting? Understanding and creating content Learning by doing Getting technical Exploring the wider world Multimedia Reflection on what you've learned is from earlier contributions and both my attachments to this thread. As I've said to Sean before, I don't have the time to reconcile opinions coming in from a number of locations. Peter, that is why I have tried to help by drawing the contributions onto one attachment, are you receiving your email without attachments? No, I drop all attachments from mailing lists unless they are text patches
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] New Fedora Spins Site
On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: Peter - here is Iain's document: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/marketing/attachments/20150519/bdaf00ca/attachment.html Can we have pure plain text, the web team deals with formatting. I need to be able to provide it in pure text, I don't have time to strip out html. Is it really that hard to provide an inline in email pure text output? I have until the end of today to provide a decent update else it goes out as is. Peter On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 7:57 PM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: Gonzalo - Iain had already consolidated all changes but Peter doesn't want to deal with a text file. Sean On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 4:39 PM, Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Iain, Sean, Sam, _Please_consolidate_the_changes_before_send_to_Peter_. Peter, when need this be finished? Gonzalo On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 3:16 PM, Iain Brown Douglas i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote: On Tue, 2015-05-19 at 15:00 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: Hi Peter, On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 9:01 PM Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 5:58 AM, Iain Brown Douglas i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote: Thanks, Sean, for the careful proof reading. Fair copy attached. I originally included the section Multimedia, as it is the set of Activities in http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/ but not in the Walter/Sam contribution. I think it is the weakest section. Chat jars a bit on the page, as Chat is used in the Spins page template to refer to IRC. My memory is that Jukebox is not part of the core set (due to non-free components?). You're memory is wrong! It uses gstreamer and there a number of free codecs that come as standard. Thanks, Peter, for the correction. So as a heading, ==Multimedia== containing Jukebox, Record, Imageviewer you feel should remain? I really don't care what it's called but those three are staying, right where they are. A lot of people want to view photos, listen to music etc. As to what it's called, I'm not particularly bothered. Maybe you could download SoaS 22 and actually test it and see what's there! Perhaps the section Multimedia as it stands should be deleted. Not going to happen. This isn't time for bikeshedding, it's time for tweaking the content as it stands. Talking about the headers is not bikeshedding. The headers on the page are not very relevant to an education focused desktop environment - they are headers for a traditional dekstop environment. I was talking about Multimedia as it stands should be deleted so I have no idea why you're talking about the header names. I have stated before the header names need to be updated. I'm still awaiting what they should be updated to. ... awaiting? Understanding and creating content Learning by doing Getting technical Exploring the wider world Multimedia Reflection on what you've learned is from earlier contributions and both my attachments to this thread. As I've said to Sean before, I don't have the time to reconcile opinions coming in from a number of locations. Peter, that is why I have tried to help by drawing the contributions onto one attachment, are you receiving your email without attachments? No, I drop all attachments from mailing lists unless they are text patches, they're generally just spam or viruses. In plain text inline emails please. I want ONE update. I don't have the time to merge them. I've already wasted a lot of time I really don't have on this! -- Gonzalo Odiard SugarLabs - Software for children learning ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] New Fedora Spins Site
_Please_consolidate_the_changes_before_send_to_Peter_. Thanks, Gonzalo, is good advice. I've just spent two hours manually providing updates. It will be live on staging shortly. Please provide any further updates against that. Right the new updated content is live on staging. Please shift+reload to ensure you have the latest revision. Section titles updated etc. http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/ Please provide updates against that in a email without html formatting. Pure text in an email. We have basically today to get the last tweaks in and then it's done. Thanks, Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] New Fedora Spins Site
On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 5:58 AM, Iain Brown Douglas i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote: Thanks, Sean, for the careful proof reading. Fair copy attached. I originally included the section Multimedia, as it is the set of Activities in http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/ but not in the Walter/Sam contribution. I think it is the weakest section. Chat jars a bit on the page, as Chat is used in the Spins page template to refer to IRC. My memory is that Jukebox is not part of the core set (due to non-free components?). You're memory is wrong! It uses gstreamer and there a number of free codecs that come as standard. Maybe you could download SoaS 22 and actually test it and see what's there! Perhaps the section Multimedia as it stands should be deleted. Not going to happen. This isn't time for bikeshedding, it's time for tweaking the content as it stands. Regards, Iain On Mon, 2015-05-18 at 09:29 +0200, Sean DALY wrote: thanks Iain looks good some typos: Wwork - Work FotoToon - OK is singular not plural speech and though - speech and thought Paint provides to tools - Paint provides tools Make Sugar activities - Make Sugar Activities / edit existing activities - edit existing Activities / Browse activity - Browse Activity (((Activities always init-capitalized in Sugar context when describing applications))) Also Pippy Develop should be in a Getting Technical section not regrouped under Learning by doing please Tweaks: * Get Books. Download electronic books from all over the web. Explore with ease the classics and modern books from the Internet Archive, Feedbooks, etc. Music - I think this refers to the Jukebox Activity, should be: * Jukebox. Media player to play different kinds of audio and video files. However, I am not sure if this Activity is in the latest SoaS or not? * Record is the basic rich-media capture Activity. It lets you capture still images, video, and/or audio. (((remove for the laptop - we can't assume SoaS will be running on a laptop))) Finally, an HTML issue: the left/right curly quote marks (cf. office desktop) which probably came in from copy/pasted text should either be replacd with simple double parentheses ( quot;) or the HTML entities ldquo; and rdquo; thanks Sean On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Iain Brown Douglas i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote: On Sun, 2015-05-17 at 15:14 +0200, Sean DALY wrote: Peter - Walter's edits were for the Activities descriptions, mine were for the introduction, no reconciliation necessary Sean On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 12:38 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: Walter sent some edits, I believe most of those have gone in, we need to update titles still I believe. This is what we currently have, the Activities list and layout are now set. http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/ We can tweak the text but I need to have the edits co-ordinated, Hi all, The attached text file starts from http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/, taken during Sunday, with contributions from Sean Walter/Sam added. There is still some work to do, additions, subtractions or comments please! Regards, Iain I don't have time to to do that so please liaise with Walter to come up with the final edits so I can submit them early next week as a single final edit. Peter On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: Peter - are the intro edits I sent going in? thanks Sean On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: It's already in process On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Sam P. sam.parkins...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Peter, I think Walter send out a good copy [1] with headers - maybe we could use those headers? Thanks, Sam [1] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2015-May/050190.html On Thu, May 14
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] New Fedora Spins Site
On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Sam P. sam.parkins...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Peter, On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 9:01 PM Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 5:58 AM, Iain Brown Douglas i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote: Thanks, Sean, for the careful proof reading. Fair copy attached. I originally included the section Multimedia, as it is the set of Activities in http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/ but not in the Walter/Sam contribution. I think it is the weakest section. Chat jars a bit on the page, as Chat is used in the Spins page template to refer to IRC. My memory is that Jukebox is not part of the core set (due to non-free components?). You're memory is wrong! It uses gstreamer and there a number of free codecs that come as standard. Maybe you could download SoaS 22 and actually test it and see what's there! Perhaps the section Multimedia as it stands should be deleted. Not going to happen. This isn't time for bikeshedding, it's time for tweaking the content as it stands. Talking about the headers is not bikeshedding. The headers on the page are not very relevant to an education focused desktop environment - they are headers for a traditional dekstop environment. I was talking about Multimedia as it stands should be deleted so I have no idea why you're talking about the header names. I have stated before the header names need to be updated. I'm still awaiting what they should be updated to. The sections are not sensible in the context of Sugar - and the Education section is almost like a joke. Logical section headers are just as important as good text. People looking at websites are often very distracted and need very logical things before they scratch their head and look else where. I'm being a little assertive - but we should change the headers! Please read back through my previous replies. Also some very unimportant stuff: Portfolio, Journal and Paint all have different color palettes for their icons :( They were taken as it directly from the sugar svgs so I suspect something is broken there. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] New Fedora Spins Site
Hi Peter, On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 9:01 PM Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 5:58 AM, Iain Brown Douglas i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote: Thanks, Sean, for the careful proof reading. Fair copy attached. I originally included the section Multimedia, as it is the set of Activities in http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/ but not in the Walter/Sam contribution. I think it is the weakest section. Chat jars a bit on the page, as Chat is used in the Spins page template to refer to IRC. My memory is that Jukebox is not part of the core set (due to non-free components?). You're memory is wrong! It uses gstreamer and there a number of free codecs that come as standard. Thanks, Peter, for the correction. So as a heading, ==Multimedia== containing Jukebox, Record, Imageviewer you feel should remain? I really don't care what it's called but those three are staying, right where they are. A lot of people want to view photos, listen to music etc. As to what it's called, I'm not particularly bothered. Maybe you could download SoaS 22 and actually test it and see what's there! Perhaps the section Multimedia as it stands should be deleted. Not going to happen. This isn't time for bikeshedding, it's time for tweaking the content as it stands. Talking about the headers is not bikeshedding. The headers on the page are not very relevant to an education focused desktop environment - they are headers for a traditional dekstop environment. I was talking about Multimedia as it stands should be deleted so I have no idea why you're talking about the header names. I have stated before the header names need to be updated. I'm still awaiting what they should be updated to. ... awaiting? Understanding and creating content Learning by doing Getting technical Exploring the wider world Multimedia Reflection on what you've learned is from earlier contributions and both my attachments to this thread. As I've said to Sean before, I don't have the time to reconcile opinions coming in from a number of locations. How do those above titles apply to the Activity groupings? Or should I just randomly attach them? ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] New Fedora Spins Site
On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 3:16 PM, Iain Brown Douglas i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote: On Tue, 2015-05-19 at 15:00 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: Hi Peter, On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 9:01 PM Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 5:58 AM, Iain Brown Douglas i...@browndouglas.plus.com wrote: Thanks, Sean, for the careful proof reading. Fair copy attached. I originally included the section Multimedia, as it is the set of Activities in http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/ but not in the Walter/Sam contribution. I think it is the weakest section. Chat jars a bit on the page, as Chat is used in the Spins page template to refer to IRC. My memory is that Jukebox is not part of the core set (due to non-free components?). You're memory is wrong! It uses gstreamer and there a number of free codecs that come as standard. Thanks, Peter, for the correction. So as a heading, ==Multimedia== containing Jukebox, Record, Imageviewer you feel should remain? I really don't care what it's called but those three are staying, right where they are. A lot of people want to view photos, listen to music etc. As to what it's called, I'm not particularly bothered. Maybe you could download SoaS 22 and actually test it and see what's there! Perhaps the section Multimedia as it stands should be deleted. Not going to happen. This isn't time for bikeshedding, it's time for tweaking the content as it stands. Talking about the headers is not bikeshedding. The headers on the page are not very relevant to an education focused desktop environment - they are headers for a traditional dekstop environment. I was talking about Multimedia as it stands should be deleted so I have no idea why you're talking about the header names. I have stated before the header names need to be updated. I'm still awaiting what they should be updated to. ... awaiting? Understanding and creating content Learning by doing Getting technical Exploring the wider world Multimedia Reflection on what you've learned is from earlier contributions and both my attachments to this thread. As I've said to Sean before, I don't have the time to reconcile opinions coming in from a number of locations. Peter, that is why I have tried to help by drawing the contributions onto one attachment, are you receiving your email without attachments? No, I drop all attachments from mailing lists unless they are text patches, they're generally just spam or viruses. In plain text inline emails please. I want ONE update. I don't have the time to merge them. I've already wasted a lot of time I really don't have on this! ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] [Sugar-devel] New Fedora Spins Site
Walter sent some edits, I believe most of those have gone in, we need to update titles still I believe. This is what we currently have, the Activities list and layout are now set. http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/ We can tweak the text but I need to have the edits co-ordinated, I don't have time to to do that so please liaise with Walter to come up with the final edits so I can submit them early next week as a single final edit. Peter On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: Peter - are the intro edits I sent going in? thanks Sean On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: It's already in process On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Sam P. sam.parkins...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Peter, I think Walter send out a good copy [1] with headers - maybe we could use those headers? Thanks, Sam [1] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2015-May/050190.html On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:09 PM Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 6:15 AM, Sam Parkinson sam.parkins...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Peter, Peter Robinson wrote: Hi Sam, Gonzalo et el, I've worked with the Fedora web team to update it some based partially on Sam's details below. Details are here: http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/ Let me know of any feedback, I personally think it looks really fab! Yeah, it does. Is there a way to have different headers? Some of the headings (esp. Education) are not aappropriate for Sugar. Yes, provide me details in concise details and we'll review them and get them integrated. I knew it wasn't perfect but we needed to get the majority of the bits in place. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] [Sugar-devel] New Fedora Spins Site
It's already in process On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Sam P. sam.parkins...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Peter, I think Walter send out a good copy [1] with headers - maybe we could use those headers? Thanks, Sam [1] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2015-May/050190.html On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:09 PM Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 6:15 AM, Sam Parkinson sam.parkins...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Peter, Peter Robinson wrote: Hi Sam, Gonzalo et el, I've worked with the Fedora web team to update it some based partially on Sam's details below. Details are here: http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/ Let me know of any feedback, I personally think it looks really fab! Yeah, it does. Is there a way to have different headers? Some of the headings (esp. Education) are not aappropriate for Sugar. Yes, provide me details in concise details and we'll review them and get them integrated. I knew it wasn't perfect but we needed to get the majority of the bits in place. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] [Sugar-devel] New Fedora Spins Site
Hi Sam, Gonzalo et el, I've worked with the Fedora web team to update it some based partially on Sam's details below. Details are here: http://spins.stg.fedoraproject.org/en/soas/ Let me know of any feedback, I personally think it looks really fab! Peter On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Sam P. sam.parkins...@gmail.com wrote: The new site looks very nice!!! Here is my attempt at some featured applications: Understanding and Creating Content --- * Write. Make a story, poem, report or anything with write. Use formatting tools to add images or colors. Work together with friends to write together in real time. * Labyrinth. Put complex ideas on the computer. Use Laybrinth activity to mind map about new concepts, to explore new ideas or to reflect. * FotoToon. Use images and text to create comic strips. FotoToon provides many options to add motion, speech and though to creations. * Paint. Paint provides to tools to make artistic creations. Use brushes, stamps, shapes, text and images to create beautiful pictures. Learn by Doing -- * Turtle Blocks. Learn programming concepts with snap together blocks. Create art, animations and interactive programs in a graphics focused environment. * Physics. Create real life simulations using shapes, motors, ropes and bolts to explore physics in the world. Work collaboratively on your simulation with friends. Getting Technical - * Pippy. Program applications in a simple yet powerful environment. The Python back end provides unlimited opportunities within a simple language and environment. * Develop. Make Sugar activities within Sugar itself. Develop provides templates for new games, native and web activities as well as simple environment to edit existing activities. Exploring the Wide World - * Browse. Access the internet with Browse activity. Bookmark sites to research with friends and save sessions to the Journal to keep organized. * Get Books. Download electronic books from all over the web. Explore the classics and modern books with ease. * Read. Explore reports, documents, books and comic books with Read activity. Bookmarking and commenting tools integrate with the Journal to allow limitless possibilities. I think we could use the activity icons for the icons. Maybe we should color them, but that would not be consistent with the reset of sugar sites (aslo...). Also, could we use a better screenshot? I'm not sure what the policy is, but the current one has no journal icons and therefore no color on the home view. Color is a good thing. Thanks, Sam (I'm not sure we should mention collab, 'cause collab always seems to fail on fedora over jabber.slo. Bugs to look at for this new release!!!) On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 1:06 AM Gonzalo Odiard godi...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Fedora Design Team is working in the new Fedora Spins site. Sugar on a Stick is included there, and they are asking for feedback and content. http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2015/05/07/time-to-kick-the-tires-on-the-new-fedora-websites-in-staging/ Who can provide the information requested? -- Gonzalo Odiard SugarLabs - Software for children learning ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Marketing mailing list market...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [REVISION] Revised version of OLPC OS for tablets
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 4:01 AM, Ryan Cunningham rvskmbr...@gmail.com wrote: I am sending to you a link to a revised version (created from scratch) of my tablet port of the OLPC OS. The major changes are as follows: * The Marvell Libertas firmware and olpc-update are now properly removed using yum. * The operating system is now delivered as an XZ- compressed tape archive, allowing original equipment manufacturers to make devices with any amount of storage (provided it's no smaller than 5 GB), and therefore to further modify the operating system with a lot more new activities. * This version of the operating system is now based on the latest version (13.2.1) of OLPC OS. How are you archiving that tar format? You realise that the Fedora OS relies on xattr bits that are lost if it's not backed up and restored properly. We ran in to massive problems with this for Fedora ARM images. IMO you'd be better off using the base template we use for creating SoaS (a kick start) and generating a .img that can be imaged directly to any device by an OEM to ensure you end up with something that is supportable and not a mess. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] Users cannot find Sugar with gnome-software in Fedora 20
Richard Hughes, the owner of Fedora's Changes/AppInstaller [2], put out a call [3] for maintainers to ship an AppData specification [4], so that Software will find registered apps. I asked Richard how I could help fix this and this is from his reply. [quote] I assume you want to show the sugar-runner application. According to https://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/screenshots/f21/failed.html#sugar-runner.desktop it's missing a Comment in the .desktop file that means we just can't show it in the search results. It's also missing an AppData file, so a long description and some screenshots. If you fix up the .desktop file, and/or add an AppData file that validates, then do a build+update for f21 then it should re-appear in the search results after a couple of days. Hope this helps, Richard [/quote] Is anyone already working on this? Iain Brown Douglas I tried to get sugar and sugar-runner added to the gnome-software app a while ago and was told definitively in GIMPNet #fedora-desktop that it was not going to happen. Good luck; I would really like to see this happen. I thought, too, that this is unlikely. Thomas is exactly correct here. GNOME Software Center has ambitions to automagically find Applications - and only packagers have to be concerned with packages and dependencies, not users, my understanding. A quick search of the groups listed by yum grouplist suggests that Libre Office is the only current group to be found by Software. Thus Sugar would be leading the way if we succeed! Not exactly, it's not particularly hard to do. We basically just need a dependency package which contains nothing but the app data and a set of dependencies for all the bits we need installed to work. Basically a simple package that would equate to the @sugar-desktop group. Possibly something like sugar-runner-desktop or similar. When I write an AppData specification [4] for Sugar, what will it be registered to? It doesn't register, there a number of things that happen, extra data is added to the Fedora repositories which then gets indexed by the AppData parser Something which PackageKit can recognise as equal to yum groupinstall @sugar-desktop sugar-runner But is it doable? It should be quite straight forward. If someone will provide me the patch for the AppData plus appropriate screenshots etc I'll do the packaging side of things and it should be easy enough to land in Fedora 21+ That is excellent news, Peter, thank you for explaining the detail. Speaking only as a documentation monkey ... The new app you describe sounds like a sugar-loader. No, it's more sugar-runner plus Activities included. Regarding naming, I am being a bit of a pedant here, but I always thought desktop does not fit the Sugar metaphor well. Whatever! Can't bring myself to care that much what it's called as long as there's a general consensus about the colour of the bike shed. If we can fix a name for this new app, I will rename, and resubmit sugar3.appdata.xml with a view to generating the required patch. Thinking of non-GNOME users, will the yum groupinstall method, co-exist with the new (gnome-only-centred) app? Yes, one does not obsolete the other. ... or will the app become the default method to, also, set up sugar-session outside of GNOME? gnome-software documentation asks us not to involve users with package information! - in the Software interface, do we have an interest in *one* element only to select Sugar, or more-than-one? The yum group method is needed for other things such as the live cd creation, as for documentation it's likely useful to keep both documentation around with the gnome-software option being the primary. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] Users cannot find Sugar with gnome-software in Fedora 20
Sugar is not found in a search of Software. Richard Hughes, the owner of Fedora's Changes/AppInstaller [2], put out a call [3] for maintainers to ship an AppData specification [4], so that Software will find registered apps. I asked Richard how I could help fix this and this is from his reply. [quote] I assume you want to show the sugar-runner application. According to https://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/screenshots/f21/failed.html#sugar-runner.desktop it's missing a Comment in the .desktop file that means we just can't show it in the search results. It's also missing an AppData file, so a long description and some screenshots. If you fix up the .desktop file, and/or add an AppData file that validates, then do a build+update for f21 then it should re-appear in the search results after a couple of days. Hope this helps, Richard [/quote] Is anyone already working on this? Iain Brown Douglas I tried to get sugar and sugar-runner added to the gnome-software app a while ago and was told definitively in GIMPNet #fedora-desktop that it was not going to happen. Good luck; I would really like to see this happen. I thought, too, that this is unlikely. Thomas is exactly correct here. GNOME Software Center has ambitions to automagically find Applications - and only packagers have to be concerned with packages and dependencies, not users, my understanding. A quick search of the groups listed by yum grouplist suggests that Libre Office is the only current group to be found by Software. Thus Sugar would be leading the way if we succeed! Not exactly, it's not particularly hard to do. We basically just need a dependency package which contains nothing but the app data and a set of dependencies for all the bits we need installed to work. Basically a simple package that would equate to the @sugar-desktop group. Possibly something like sugar-runner-desktop or similar. When I write an AppData specification [4] for Sugar, what will it be registered to? It doesn't register, there a number of things that happen, extra data is added to the Fedora repositories which then gets indexed by the AppData parser Something which PackageKit can recognise as equal to yum groupinstall @sugar-desktop sugar-runner But is it doable? It should be quite straight forward. If someone will provide me the patch for the AppData plus appropriate screenshots etc I'll do the packaging side of things and it should be easy enough to land in Fedora 21+ Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Sugar 0.101.0 (unstable)
this is the first development release of the cycle that will bring us to 0.102. Highlights: * Allow to limit the number of open activities. * More informations about hardware and software in control panel. * Allow to hide the Register menu. * Add support for 5 GHz frequency channels. * A lot of bugfixes. Sources: http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar/sugar-0.101.0.tar.xz http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/sugar-toolkit-gtk3-0.101.0.tar.xz http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-artwork/sugar-artwork-0.101.0.tar.xz http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-runner/sugar-runner-0.101.1.tar.xz These are now built for Fedora 21/rawhide. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Tech roadmap
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote: On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I think Sugar Labs needs to express a clear, realistic technology roadmap. For example, we have been talking a lot about Sugar on Android, mixing a lot of different things under that name. We need to clarify what that really is. Here are my thoughts, inspired by the oversight board meeting thread. * Wait and see what happens with the XO. Support existing deployments by producing images with the most recent Sugar release. Stick to a Fedora 18 base system, the work to upgrade is highly non trivial. Provide custom rpms for the sugar modules and a few dependencies, most importantly Webkit, which is required by web activities. In the short term, we don't need backport Webkit2 to F18. In the long term, we need find a solution to move to a newer Fedora in the XOs, maybe 20 or 21. * Ensure web activities run well in web browsers. This will cover Android and other non-Linux systems. * Reuse the work done by OLPC on Fedora to get Sugar running nicely on one or two ARM boards (Beagle board black and Cubox-i seems to be the best we could pick at the moment). Talk to the manufacturers to get publicity on the images we produce and devices for the developers. Maybe not only ARM hardware. At least in South America, many places are using Classmates in educative projects. I know talks between OLPC and Intel were difficult in the past, but is a different world now. Classmates are basically just x86 netbooks, I've not tried it as I don't have HW but I don't see any reason they shouldn't work OOTB. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Tech roadmap
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: I forgot a note about toolkits * The gtk2 toolkit is deprecated and frozen but it will be supported as long as possible (at some point I guess some dependencies might start disappearing from distributions, making that problematic). The gtk3 toolkit is supported, backward API compatibility is guaranteed, it's not going to be deprecated in the foreseable future. The web toolkit is experimental, we provide no API guarantee yet, when it's mature it will be the preferred way to write activities (because of cross platform compatibility). The other one to add to this list is gstreamer. At the moment we have some support for gstreamer 1.0 and some (mostly gtk2) Activities still using gstreamer 0.10. The 0.10 release will be disappearing sooner rather than later (I wouldn't be surprised if this happened in F-21/F-22 time frame). I would love to see us be able to remove the dependency on two gst stacks, at the moment at least Clock, Speak, Record and Memorise need to be converted from gstreamer-python / gst 0.10 to gst 1.0 with Introspection support, whether this requires migration to gtk3 at the same time is unknown to me. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Tech roadmap
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 7:13 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: Did you run into any specific issue? It has been a while, but I had some issues with lack of introspection support with some pad stuff... will look again over the weekend. I would look at the gst 1.2.0 release and see how you get on there, it's in Fedora 20. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sur] Sugar oversight board meeting
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 12:17 AM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: On 4 November 2013 23:05, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: Sugar on Android or the Raspberry Pi might have an interesting marketing effect but the result would be truly terrible as it would be essentially unusable and have a terrible experience. Can you elaborate on why you think it would be a terrible experience on the Raspberry Pi? I never tested it there, I was just hoping it could be a nice target... It's generally not particularly fast and has a number of HW problems, as a look at how cool we are I wouldn't be chosing the RPi to run sugar on Android, even on Linux the experience isn't great. There are a number of other ARM devices that sugar runs beautifully on though. It would also be interesting to know more about these devices. With OLPC going the Android way, I wish there was at least one popular enough device on which we could provide a really good experience (with our scarce resources). Well Fedora produces SoaS on ARM images that will run on any of the ARM platforms Fedora supports. I would be looking at BeagleBone Black [1] (improvements still needed, should be much better soon), Wandboard [2], Utilite [3] (little brother to the TrimSlice) or the CuBox-i [4]. The last of which has the cheapest model at $45 in a case and will be much faster, we should have OOTB graphics for the last 3 devices (all based on the i.MX6) in Fedora 21 (maybe later in the F-20 cycle) and the experience will be much better for little to no price increase over the RPi. [1] http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black [2] http://www.wandboard.org/ [3] http://utilite-computer.com/ [4] http://cubox-i.com/table/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [Sur] Sugar oversight board meeting
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:14 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: On 4 November 2013 22:53, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: * It's not clear to me where we are going. The OLPC/Sugar development ecosystem seems to be at a crossroads. I am encouraged by the web activity work, but don't understand the path of transposing the value proposition of Sugar (interface, Journal, collaboration, Activities) to handheld tactile devices (tablets to smartphones). PCs (of any size) with keyboards are no longer competitive with tablets for grade-school classroom use. Perhaps the XO-4 could still be in the running; there is no clear message from OLPC. I'll try to express briefly my feelings about the directions the project could take. Note that I might be missing a lot of what is going on above the technical level. * The XO is not a viable hardware platform other than for existing deployments. OLPC is pretty clearly going in a different direction. I may be alone in thinking that there will be some runway left with the XO. But deployments need alternatives regardless. * Sugar web activities on the top of a full Android loses too much of the Sugar value proposition. It's great to have it in addition to Sugar-the-OS, but it's not enough alone. I agree. * From the technical point of view there are several ways to get Sugar-the-OS running on tactile devices. Unfortunately it's not clear to me that any of these devices is open enough to be viable for deployments or ordinary users. We looked at ChromeOS a few years back, but at the time it was too heavy for our hardware. Today, it is a different story. Might be a viable option. Certainly running GNU/Linux/Sugar on a ChromeBook is not a bad starting point. Given that ChromeOS is locked down I don't believe it's viable to ask a School to have to break/hack the HW to get it working OOTB. Having been involved in the OLPC OS side of things I believe you would be much better taking the work done by OLPC with things like olpc-os-builder and the work upstream with Fedora to use it to build out OS images that will work in a similar way across both XOs and other HW be it x86 netbook or cheap ARM devices rather than reinventing the wheel! Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] [Sur] Sugar oversight board meeting
Look at these older tests of sugar on the RPi: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Testing/Reports/ARM_RPi This part of the Advanced topics wiki page on the sugarlabs wiki: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/sck/Advanced_Topics#ARM Tom Gilliard I could not find any evidence of user experience testing, or performance evaluation, in the two links you gave. Did you give the right ones? The links I see above provide a lot of random links and information but it seems to be a confusing mish-mash of stuff. Useful for someone who is extremely technical but not to a school which wants an off the shelf experience that just works. I agree with Peter, I don't think it will perform well, but I don't know in what way it won't perform well, so I can't guess where effort would have to be spent to fix it. Somethings are HW or closed source drivers so I don't believe it would be possible to get a reasonable, reproducible QAed experience that would be of decent performance on a reproducible platform. If we want to look at a platform where we can produce a consistent nice platform I would suggest the Beagle Bone black where we can produce and image to fix on the onboard eMMC or something like the bottom end Cubox-i where each could cost less than $50 and be a consistent controllable experience. (especially in comparison to an XO-1) Well it would be likely similar performance to an XO-1 which is TERRIBLE! Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [Marketing] [Sur] Sugar oversight board meeting
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 6:15 AM, Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi… Last year at SCaLE George Hunt helped me get Sugar running on my RPi. Because our booth was so busy, it took parts of both Saturday and Sunday to get it going. I then tried it when I got home and found that it was prone to stalls. Of course, this was back in late February and there may have been improvements since then. If so, please let me know where to find the download and instructions for installing. I would like to suggest we keep the idea of Sugar on the RPi in mind, but perhaps in a smaller, reduced size with only a few carefully selected Activities. Perhaps it could be called A Taste Of Sugar. I think there's a lot better cheap ARM dev boards out there that offer a better experience and performance for the same price. Having been actively involved in low level ARM stuff for well over 2 years I think we should forget about it and spend time on the other cheap devices that are more open and easier to support. Remember, the whole idea behind the RPi is to get young people involved in really learning about computers and computing and to do creative things with them. With this in mind, some of the Activities that could be part of a small version of Sugar might include Turtle Blocks for robotics, a small version of Tam Tam for experimenting with creating musical sounds and actually composing with loops (I realize even a tiny version of Tam Tam would be a huge undertaking, but very worthwhile), Pippy for learning Python, etc. I don't think any of that is unachievable. If you use the Pidora image for SoaS you can have it now. If you have any number of other cheap ARM boards you can even have a full Sugar 0.100 on Fedora 20 _NOW_ will all of that! As we discuss where our group(s) should focus in the future, let's try not to get to bogged down in discussions of hardware platforms and software solutions. First and foremost we might want to consider the educational experience we want to make available to students. Hopefully, it will be something that fosters creativity, collaboration, and problem solving while making projects of all kinds imaginable. We already have the basis of the educational experience from the current releases of Sugar. In terms of HW I think we should use upstream distros and let them care about the HW and work with one or two of them to ensure that the Sugar experience on them is great OOTB so that people can then focus on development of the platform. That's what I've been doing with Fedora and Sugar for 5 years! IMO the sugar OOTB there just works Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Sugar 0.100.0 (stable)
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:13 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 November 2013 00:07, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 10:59 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: Broken annotation in abiword. Trying to figure out the correct one then I'll open a bug + patch. Thanks! Let me know when you've got a patch and I'll test it. Here it is http://bugzilla.abisource.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13572 Thanks, that's fixed the running issue for me on Fedora 20, I've pushed the patch to the Fedora abiword 3 and will do more testing later. Thanks for your quick assistance with this. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Sugar oversight board meeting
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: Do you know what's the status of graphics with the BeagleBone Black? Sugar on the BBB should work fine with the modesetting driver OOTB (I've still got some kernel bits to do in Fedora, 3.12 should be much better) as it doesn't need 3D. The i.MX6 devices (WandBard, Utilite, CuBox-i etc) should have accelerated graphics in the F-21 time frame. Peter On Tuesday, 5 November 2013, Peter Robinson wrote: On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 12:17 AM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: On 4 November 2013 23:05, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: Sugar on Android or the Raspberry Pi might have an interesting marketing effect but the result would be truly terrible as it would be essentially unusable and have a terrible experience. Can you elaborate on why you think it would be a terrible experience on the Raspberry Pi? I never tested it there, I was just hoping it could be a nice target... It's generally not particularly fast and has a number of HW problems, as a look at how cool we are I wouldn't be chosing the RPi to run sugar on Android, even on Linux the experience isn't great. There are a number of other ARM devices that sugar runs beautifully on though. It would also be interesting to know more about these devices. With OLPC going the Android way, I wish there was at least one popular enough device on which we could provide a really good experience (with our scarce resources). Well Fedora produces SoaS on ARM images that will run on any of the ARM platforms Fedora supports. I would be looking at BeagleBone Black [1] (improvements still needed, should be much better soon), Wandboard [2], Utilite [3] (little brother to the TrimSlice) or the CuBox-i [4]. The last of which has the cheapest model at $45 in a case and will be much faster, we should have OOTB graphics for the last 3 devices (all based on the i.MX6) in Fedora 21 (maybe later in the F-20 cycle) and the experience will be much better for little to no price increase over the RPi. [1] http://beagleboard.org/Products/BeagleBone%20Black [2] http://www.wandboard.org/ [3] http://utilite-computer.com/ [4] http://cubox-i.com/table/ -- Daniel Narvaez ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Sugar oversight board meeting
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: Going a bit off topic, but a pretty major issue I see in our workflow with Fedora is that we don't have a good way to develop unstable Sugar on a stable Fedora. Rawhide is, or at least is perceived as, unstable. And I'm not sure what would be a good way to, for example, produce and distribute 0.100 rpms for Fedora 19. We can setup our custom automated build system and repository of course, but I'm not sure that's a good approach? Part of the problem here is that upstream tends to depend strongly on very recent libraries which are not yet available in the stable fedora, though maybe now that the gi conversion is over we can avoid that. Actually a lot of that will be solved perfectly with COPR (similar in style to Ubuntu PPA) which is being worked upon at the moment and it should solve all the problems you see by enabling newer versions to be built for older releases while maintaining the stable shipped release in mainline. Peter On Tuesday, 5 November 2013, Peter Robinson wrote: On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 2:14 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: On 4 November 2013 22:53, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: * It's not clear to me where we are going. The OLPC/Sugar development ecosystem seems to be at a crossroads. I am encouraged by the web activity work, but don't understand the path of transposing the value proposition of Sugar (interface, Journal, collaboration, Activities) to handheld tactile devices (tablets to smartphones). PCs (of any size) with keyboards are no longer competitive with tablets for grade-school classroom use. Perhaps the XO-4 could still be in the running; there is no clear message from OLPC. I'll try to express briefly my feelings about the directions the project could take. Note that I might be missing a lot of what is going on above the technical level. * The XO is not a viable hardware platform other than for existing deployments. OLPC is pretty clearly going in a different direction. I may be alone in thinking that there will be some runway left with the XO. But deployments need alternatives regardless. * Sugar web activities on the top of a full Android loses too much of the Sugar value proposition. It's great to have it in addition to Sugar-the-OS, but it's not enough alone. I agree. * From the technical point of view there are several ways to get Sugar-the-OS running on tactile devices. Unfortunately it's not clear to me that any of these devices is open enough to be viable for deployments or ordinary users. We looked at ChromeOS a few years back, but at the time it was too heavy for our hardware. Today, it is a different story. Might be a viable option. Certainly running GNU/Linux/Sugar on a ChromeBook is not a bad starting point. Given that ChromeOS is locked down I don't believe it's viable to ask a School to have to break/hack the HW to get it working OOTB. Having been involved in the OLPC OS side of things I believe you would be much better taking the work done by OLPC with things like olpc-os-builder and the work upstream with Fedora to use it to build out OS images that will work in a similar way across both XOs and other HW be it x86 netbook or cheap ARM devices rather than reinventing the wheel! Peter -- Daniel Narvaez ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Sugar 0.100.0 (stable)
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, we are proud to announce the release of Sugar 0.100.0. A lot is new for both users and developers, see the release notes http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.100/Notes Sources: http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-datastore/sugar-datastore-0.100.0.tar.xz http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-artwork/sugar-artwork-0.100.0.tar.xz http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-runner/sugar-runner-0.100.0.tar.xz http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar/sugar-0.100.1.tar.xz http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/sugar-toolkit-gtk3-0.100.0.tar.xz Thanks to everyone that contributed with code, translations and testing! These are now in updates-testing in Fedora 20. They're not yet in the Fedora 20 stable channel because they're locked down for Beta but will land in stable shortly after Beta. It would be good to get some wider testing and feedback. The big issue at the moment is Write failing to run and I would love some assistance in debugging and fixing that soon so we can ship it in SoaS 10. The latest Beta RC2 images can be found here: x86 (32 and 64 bit) http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/20-Beta-RC2/Live/ ARM http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/20-Beta-RC2/Images/armhfp/ Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Sugar 0.100.0 (stable)
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't have much of a clue about Write but... can you send the activity
log?
It unfortunately only contains a single line:
Terminated by signal 11, pid 14089 data (None, open file 'fdopen',
mode 'w' at 0x2e13540,
dbus.ByteArray('ef47d2e4dc6551ba96f6ceded9023243ea4ee519
', variant_level=1))
On 4 November 2013 16:14, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello,
we are proud to announce the release of Sugar 0.100.0. A lot is new for
both
users and developers, see the release notes
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.100/Notes
Sources:
http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-datastore/sugar-datastore-0.100.0.tar.xz
http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-artwork/sugar-artwork-0.100.0.tar.xz
http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-runner/sugar-runner-0.100.0.tar.xz
http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar/sugar-0.100.1.tar.xz
http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/sugar-toolkit-gtk3-0.100.0.tar.xz
Thanks to everyone that contributed with code, translations and testing!
These are now in updates-testing in Fedora 20. They're not yet in the
Fedora 20 stable channel because they're locked down for Beta but will
land in stable shortly after Beta. It would be good to get some wider
testing and feedback. The big issue at the moment is Write failing to
run and I would love some assistance in debugging and fixing that soon
so we can ship it in SoaS 10.
The latest Beta RC2 images can be found here:
x86 (32 and 64 bit)
http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/20-Beta-RC2/Live/
ARM http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/20-Beta-RC2/Images/armhfp/
Peter
--
Daniel Narvaez
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Sugar 0.100.0 (stable)
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:
That's a segmentation fault I think. It would be good if you could launch it
with sugar-launch -d and post the backtrace., possibly after having
installed debug packages.
2Gb of debuginfo later I have the following:
http://paste.fedoraproject.org/51575/38360107/
Thanks,
Peter
On 4 November 2013 21:25, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com
wrote:
I don't have much of a clue about Write but... can you send the activity
log?
It unfortunately only contains a single line:
Terminated by signal 11, pid 14089 data (None, open file 'fdopen',
mode 'w' at 0x2e13540,
dbus.ByteArray('ef47d2e4dc6551ba96f6ceded9023243ea4ee519
', variant_level=1))
On 4 November 2013 16:14, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello,
we are proud to announce the release of Sugar 0.100.0. A lot is new
for
both
users and developers, see the release notes
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.100/Notes
Sources:
http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-datastore/sugar-datastore-0.100.0.tar.xz
http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-artwork/sugar-artwork-0.100.0.tar.xz
http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-runner/sugar-runner-0.100.0.tar.xz
http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar/sugar-0.100.1.tar.xz
http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/sugar-toolkit-gtk3-0.100.0.tar.xz
Thanks to everyone that contributed with code, translations and
testing!
These are now in updates-testing in Fedora 20. They're not yet in the
Fedora 20 stable channel because they're locked down for Beta but will
land in stable shortly after Beta. It would be good to get some wider
testing and feedback. The big issue at the moment is Write failing to
run and I would love some assistance in debugging and fixing that soon
so we can ship it in SoaS 10.
The latest Beta RC2 images can be found here:
x86 (32 and 64 bit)
http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/20-Beta-RC2/Live/
ARM
http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/20-Beta-RC2/Images/armhfp/
Peter
--
Daniel Narvaez
--
Daniel Narvaez
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sur] Sugar oversight board meeting
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:53 PM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: Gonzalo - I'm sorry, I was unable to attend the SLOBs meeting today. There are issues with doing PR about the release * It's not clear to me where we are going. The OLPC/Sugar development ecosystem seems to be at a crossroads. I am encouraged by the web activity work, but don't understand the path of transposing the value proposition of Sugar (interface, Journal, collaboration, Activities) to handheld tactile devices (tablets to smartphones). PCs (of any size) with keyboards are no longer competitive with tablets for grade-school classroom use. Perhaps the XO-4 could still be in the running; there is no clear message from OLPC. * Our target market, the ten million or so grade-school teachers worldwide, can't benefit from the release; there are no installers. There are detailed instructions for using virtualization on the wiki thanks to satellit, and the consistently good work of probinson on SoaS, but the release itself won't be news if no one can use it. But you have for a long time refused to actually even market SoaS! For these reasons (as mentioned on the marketing list) an Activity/pedagogical focus is a safe bet. Unfortunately our Turtle Art Day PR flopped because publication of the Spanish PR was delayed by two days (technical bottleneck which I very much hope we will be able to solve). The PR will however fulfill its role of background for interested journalists (www.sugarlabs.org/press). I haven't expected any wider press coverage for some time now, since we don't have any easy-to-try products available and OLPC's press communications are meant to imply that laptops are out and the Android tablet is in, leaving Sugar in limbo. An easy installation use procedure for Sugar on Android or the Raspberry Pi could have major press impact, but I don't know how near or far we are from those. Sugar on Android or the Raspberry Pi might have an interesting marketing effect but the result would be truly terrible as it would be essentially unusable and have a terrible experience. There are a number of other ARM devices that sugar runs beautifully on though. Ultimately marketing needs to actually actively engage with the rest of the people doing the work to find out what's being done and market on something to ensure Sugar is regularly in the news to keep it in people's mind as opposed to waiting and hoping for a single enormous event. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Sugar 0.100.0 (stable)
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 10:59 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote:
Broken annotation in abiword. Trying to figure out the correct one then I'll
open a bug + patch.
Thanks! Let me know when you've got a patch and I'll test it.
Peter
On 4 November 2013 22:40, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com
wrote:
That's a segmentation fault I think. It would be good if you could
launch it
with sugar-launch -d and post the backtrace., possibly after having
installed debug packages.
2Gb of debuginfo later I have the following:
http://paste.fedoraproject.org/51575/38360107/
Thanks,
Peter
On 4 November 2013 21:25, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com
wrote:
I don't have much of a clue about Write but... can you send the
activity
log?
It unfortunately only contains a single line:
Terminated by signal 11, pid 14089 data (None, open file 'fdopen',
mode 'w' at 0x2e13540,
dbus.ByteArray('ef47d2e4dc6551ba96f6ceded9023243ea4ee519
', variant_level=1))
On 4 November 2013 16:14, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Daniel Narvaez
dwnarv...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hello,
we are proud to announce the release of Sugar 0.100.0. A lot is
new
for
both
users and developers, see the release notes
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.100/Notes
Sources:
http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-datastore/sugar-datastore-0.100.0.tar.xz
http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-artwork/sugar-artwork-0.100.0.tar.xz
http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-runner/sugar-runner-0.100.0.tar.xz
http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar/sugar-0.100.1.tar.xz
http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/sugar-toolkit-gtk3-0.100.0.tar.xz
Thanks to everyone that contributed with code, translations and
testing!
These are now in updates-testing in Fedora 20. They're not yet in
the
Fedora 20 stable channel because they're locked down for Beta but
will
land in stable shortly after Beta. It would be good to get some
wider
testing and feedback. The big issue at the moment is Write failing
to
run and I would love some assistance in debugging and fixing that
soon
so we can ship it in SoaS 10.
The latest Beta RC2 images can be found here:
x86 (32 and 64 bit)
http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/20-Beta-RC2/Live/
ARM
http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/20-Beta-RC2/Images/armhfp/
Peter
--
Daniel Narvaez
--
Daniel Narvaez
--
Daniel Narvaez
___
IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [support-gang] Helping test Sugar 0.100
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Gonzalo Odiard gonz...@laptop.org wrote: No, I never had a koji user. How can I have one? Become a Fedora packager. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Sugar 0.99.1 (unstable)
On 31 Jul 2013 18:52, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, this is the first feature frozen release. We landed all the features that we initially planned and a few more. Thanks to everyone involved! Highlights: * Multi selection in the journal * Service providers selection in the modem configuration * Previews in the object chooser * Multiple home views * Microformat activity updater * Automatic activity updates Sources: http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar/sugar-0.99.1.tar.xz http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-artwork/sugar-artwork-0.99.1.tar.xz http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-datastore/sugar-datastore-0.99.1.tar.xz http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/sugar-toolkit-gtk3-0.99.1.tar.xz http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-runner/sugar-runner-0.99.3.tar.xz So its all built in fedora rawhide and there should now be nightly images for both arm and x86 (arm is on its way to primary too!) But I just need simon to review the gwebservices package. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Google Summer of Code project ideas
On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: We have been accumulating project ideas for Google Summer of Code 2013 [1]. Please take a few minutes to add a favorite project or sign on as a co-mentor to an existing project. Also, feel free to help us refine the descriptions on the pages. (I've added a bit of text to the end of each project, describing how it benefits both Sugar and the student working on the project. These blurbs need some refining. The deadline is the 29th of this month, so please act in the next day or two. I've added a PackageKit based Update Control Panel. The current implementation is completely broken and for deployments that might want to control updates it's not overly useful. PackageKit is distribution agnostic so would work on Fedora/Debian/SuSE/Arch/Ubuntu etc. I can mentor from the OS side of things but would need someone to lead for the Sugar/Python side of things. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2013#PackageKit_control_panel_plugin_for_Distribution_Activity.2FOS_installs.2Fupdates Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Raspberry PI
It already works fine on the Fedora releases for Sugar. Peter On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:46 PM, Daniel Narvaez dwnarv...@gmail.com wrote: Perhaps a good opportunity to get Sugar in the hands of more kids http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jan/29/google-raspberry-pi-s -- Daniel Narvaez ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2013-01-25
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 11:04 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: == Sugar Digest == There are certainly cases where applying objective measures badly is worse than not applying them at all, and education may well be one of those. --Nate Silver 1. Not to be deterred by Nate Silver's words of warning, Claudia Urrea and I continue to work on mechanisms for visualizing learning Sugar. Along with the Pacita Pena and other members of the Learning Team, we have been designing rubrics that capture the level of fluency with the technology as well as the creative use of the individual Sugar tools by children. The rubrics are captured automatically in some Sugar activities, e.g., Turtle Art and a modified version of Write. We are aiming for evaluations that look more broadly than those data that are captured by standardized tests. We just submitted a paper, Visualizing Learning with Turtle Art, in which we present some measurements calculated from 45 Turtle Art projects [1] created by children working with Quirós Tanzi Foundation [2]. We claim that the rubric serves as a partial evaluation tool for open-ended projects. Partial, because it is only a measure of how the children used Turtle Art to express themselves, but not what they made or why they made it [3]. But the rubric does have the potential to give some assistance to the teacher who is working within the context of accountability, without adding an additional burden of analysis above and beyond looking at the work itself. We want children not just to learn about the computer, but also to learn with the computer. Providing activities such as Turtle Art that engage them in computational thinking in the context of personal expression is necessary, but not sufficient. Giving them tools for reflection enhance the learning experience. Giving their teachers simple-to-use mechanisms for assessment increase the odds that activities like Turtle Art will find more mainstream acceptance. Making it easier to assess open-ended projects lowers one of the barriers that are preventing more use of the arts in school. 2. Google Code-In ended last week. We had 52 contestants working on almost 200 tasks supported by 22 mentors. On February 4, Google will announce the two winners from Sugar Labs. But in the meantime, I want to thank everyone who participated and thank Google for this opportunity for outreach. Chris Leonard, the co-administrator from Sugar Labs, has made a page in the wiki [4] summarizing the accomplishments of our students. Worth checking out. 3. Sean Daly, our PR guru, is back with a vengeance. We are planning to make some noise around Google Code In, the up-coming Sugar 1.0 release, and many other accomplishments in order to broaden our community of contributors and users. Please contact Sean if you have themes we should consider promoting. SoaS v8 ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [support-gang] OLPC
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 5:36 AM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote: On Mon, Dec 03, 2012 at 03:53:32PM +1100, James Cameron wrote: For a truly shared computer, I suggest switching to a login screen before Sugar, such as that provided by the default Fedora (before OLPC OS removed it). I tried this just now on an XO-4 with 13.1.0 build 15, and was able to switch to using a login screen: # yum install -y gdm # install the login screen # chkconfig olpc-dm off# turn off the automatic login by OLPC # chkconfig gdm on # turn on the login screen # passwd olpc # set the password on the default account # adduser fred # create a new account # passwd fred # set the password on the new account # reboot It worked reasonably well, and the login screen had a Sugar vs GNOME option, but there were a few irritating bugs that would need to be worked: - fonts used by Sugar are too small, (perhaps this is something done by olpc-dm when it should instead be done in a platform-specific session startup for Sugar), - there's no Logout option on Sugar, to take the system back to the login screen, It's easy enough to enable with a GConf key gconftool-2 --direct --config-source=xml:readwrite:/etc/gconf/gconf.xml.defaults -s -t bool /desktop/sugar/show_logout true /dev/null - after Logout from GNOME, there is system startup text displayed for a short time before the login screen appears, - no Sugar Activities are present in the second account even if they are copied manually ... something that the Sugar developers could probably advise on. Yes, for the OLPC deployment all the Activities get installed in the local user directory. For SoaS and Fedora in general where we package Activities as rpms they get installed in /usr/share/sugar/activities/ I've heard of a couple of places using sugar multiuser on desktops and even one (or maybe more) using it with thin client/remote X setups with multiuser without issues so it's certainly usable in this manner. IMO the gdm login is the only really workable solution. Things like SD cards or USB sticks are likely to get lost by youngsters. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2012-11-30
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: == Sugar Digest == “Believe those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it; doubt all, but do not doubt yourself.” (Croyez ceux qui cherchent la vérité, doutez de ceux qui la trouvent; doutez de tout, mais ne doutez pas de vous-même.) -André Gide It has been a very exciting week. (You may have noticed, I don't often use adverbs, but very was called for given all that has happened.) 1. Simon Schampijer announced the release of Sugar 0.98. This is a major milestone for Sugar Labs as it is the first release that takes touch seriously. It also incorportates many improvements to the GTK3 port. The Sugar Developer Team deserves a resounding celebatory cheer of thanks for a their effort. Read the release notes here [1]. (Note that OLPC has been incorporating Sugar 0.98 in their 13.1 series of builds, available for download here [2] to run on XO hardware.) It will also appear in the next nightly build of SoaS v8, I'll provide a link when it's available. 2. Google Code-In [3] began on Monday. We have 22 mentors [4], 40 students [5], and 79 out of 132 tasks already completed [6]. (More tasks are coming on-line soon.) The contest runs for 6 weeks, so it is not too late to sign up as a mentor [7] and to recruit students to participate [8]. Some highlights include new tutorials for Turtle Art, using Sugar in a Virtual Machine, and using Sugar on a Stick; a new feature: load a background image on the home screen; and numerous patches in support of internationalization. Some of the usual suspects are making their usual outstanding contributions, while some new talent is also emerging. Thanks to everyone (mentors, students, and Google) for participating. I'd be interested in what's happening on SoaS. 3. Sugar Labs is holding its annual election to the oversight board early next month. If you are interested in running for one of the open board seats, open to any community member, please contact me or the membership committee with any questions *before* 7 December. === Tech Talk === 4. Aleksey Lim announced the Sugar Network 0.7 development release. See [9] for details on how to try it. === Sugar Labs === Visit our planet [10] for more updates about Sugar and Sugar deployments. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.98/Notes [2] http://build.laptop.org/13.1.0/ [3] http://www.google-melange.com/gci/homepage/google/gci2012 [4] http://www.google-melange.com/gci/dashboard/google/gci2012#all_orgs_mentors [5] http://www.google-melange.com/gci/org_scores/google/gci2012/sugarlabs2012 [6] http://www.google-melange.com/gci/dashboard/google/gci2012#all_org_tasks [7] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/GoogleCodeIn2012/Participate#Mentors [8] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/GoogleCodeIn2012/Participate#Students [9] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network#Try_it [10] http://planet.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Introduction: teacher interested in SOAS
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 6:10 PM, John Landis j...@johnlandis.net wrote: Thanks so much for the warm welcome. Particularly to Patricio, Harriet, and Kevin for sharing such fascinating links. If it's okay, I'm going to use this list as a sounding board for my thoughts as I explore Sugar. Again, if there's a better place for this type of thing, please let me know! So far, I'm getting the impression that Sugar on A Stick is more or less limited to experimental university-school partnerships, and hasn't yet reached a phase of wide deployment in the hands of schools. Is this an accurate assessment? No, it's not. It's been used in a number of school environments that I'm aware of quite successfully in a number of different countries. The reason I'm interested in SOAS is that I work in the traditional computer lab setting that is so familiar in K12 schools in the US. This setting has a lot of restrictions and drawbacks. A big one is that, even though the students are surrounded by computers in my lab, and to varying degrees at home, they have no opportunity to take ownership of these devices. They can't monkey about with the precious computers that we adults see as far to precious to fully hand over to children. A very basic symptom of this is that the students simply can't save their work. A save dialog box on most computers is very difficult to learn for the uninitiated. Add to this that all files which don't make it onto a shared network or USB drive are basically instantly lost given the shared nature of school computers. If the kids can't do something as simple as save a piece of writing, the computer is far less useful than a notebook. In this light, SOAS looks very appealing. The promise of handing a student their own _persistant_ computer where they are free to explore is exactly what I've been looking for. (to say nothing of sugar's Journal which I think is a brilliant answer to the above problem). That's basically it, it certainly isn't without it's quirks but it generally works pretty well. I'm the lead developer for SoaS. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Open source course builder
Hi all, Google has released an open source course builder that some people might be interested in. http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/11/google-releases-course-builder/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/11/google-launches-open-course-builder Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sur] TI MSP430 running on XO 1 - Robotics!
On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote: Peter, That part worked perfectly! Cool! BTW is that on a XO 1.75? I have just been used to the Arduino IDE, and so need to make a mental change. And, more importantly, get more experience with the TI Launchpad. You can have arduino IDE too with a yum install arduino I believe. Peter On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 12:14 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 5:01 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote: Yama and Walter, Thanks. I was not as clear as I wanted to be. Arduino (or Energia, an alternative) would be fine. I was speaking about using mspdebug, which is purely command line based. mspdebug is packaged in Fedora so it should be as simple as yum install mspdebug on an XO Peter On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Dr. Gerald Ardito gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote: I have finally got to work on this. Are there any GUI tools for the programming, or does it all have to be via command line? If you figure out some useful command lines, we could probably make a TA plugin. (I've not got my hands of the device yet.) -walter Thanks. Gerald On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Luis Galindo llwwwl...@gmail.com wrote: I just bought the TI MSP430 to test it with the Xo 1.0. Thank you Yama :-) Luis El 10 de febrero de 2012 11:06, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com escribió: 2012/2/10 Yamaplos . yamap...@gmail.com: The TI MSP430 chips are a very attractive alternative to add robotic options for XO / Sugar users. Microcontrolers are the brain behind many engineering hobby and educational pursuits, but many alternatives are expensive or very hard to run in the XO. The TI Launchpad board, with a G2553 microcontroler and an extra G2452 in the box, is available from Texas Instruments for $4.30 USD, including shipping anywhere in the world (yes, hard to believe). http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/MSP430_LaunchPad_%28MSP-EXP430G2%29 Here are the instructions for running the Launchpad with the G2452. Maybe if the next iteratiuon of Sugar uses Fedora 15 we will be able to use the G2553 as well. http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/OLPC_XO-1 The next release will be based on F-17 but both those packages are listed. You might want to use one of the test releases based on F-17 that I've released (new one coming soon) to make sure it all works OK and feedback any issues to ensure we get them fixed for the final release. Peter ___ Lista olpc-Sur olpc-...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur ___ Lista olpc-Sur olpc-...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur ___ Lista olpc-Sur olpc-...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Lista olpc-Sur olpc-...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sur] TI MSP430 running on XO 1 - Robotics!
On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 5:01 PM, Dr. Gerald Ardito gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote: Yama and Walter, Thanks. I was not as clear as I wanted to be. Arduino (or Energia, an alternative) would be fine. I was speaking about using mspdebug, which is purely command line based. mspdebug is packaged in Fedora so it should be as simple as yum install mspdebug on an XO Peter On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Dr. Gerald Ardito gerald.ard...@gmail.com wrote: I have finally got to work on this. Are there any GUI tools for the programming, or does it all have to be via command line? If you figure out some useful command lines, we could probably make a TA plugin. (I've not got my hands of the device yet.) -walter Thanks. Gerald On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Luis Galindo llwwwl...@gmail.com wrote: I just bought the TI MSP430 to test it with the Xo 1.0. Thank you Yama :-) Luis El 10 de febrero de 2012 11:06, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com escribió: 2012/2/10 Yamaplos . yamap...@gmail.com: The TI MSP430 chips are a very attractive alternative to add robotic options for XO / Sugar users. Microcontrolers are the brain behind many engineering hobby and educational pursuits, but many alternatives are expensive or very hard to run in the XO. The TI Launchpad board, with a G2553 microcontroler and an extra G2452 in the box, is available from Texas Instruments for $4.30 USD, including shipping anywhere in the world (yes, hard to believe). http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/MSP430_LaunchPad_%28MSP-EXP430G2%29 Here are the instructions for running the Launchpad with the G2452. Maybe if the next iteratiuon of Sugar uses Fedora 15 we will be able to use the G2553 as well. http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/OLPC_XO-1 The next release will be based on F-17 but both those packages are listed. You might want to use one of the test releases based on F-17 that I've released (new one coming soon) to make sure it all works OK and feedback any issues to ensure we get them fixed for the final release. Peter ___ Lista olpc-Sur olpc-...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur ___ Lista olpc-Sur olpc-...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur ___ Lista olpc-Sur olpc-...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Lista olpc-Sur olpc-...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sur ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Sugar as a Mac Ap?
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Frederick Grose fgr...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 4:27 AM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 2012-06-13, at 07:50, Steven Thompson wrote: Even just in English in Japan could help kids. The common denomenator for jhs and hs kids is an iPhone or android and the iPad at home...much more so than buying an Intel Classmate or having a hope of getting an XO. Sugar can be installed on any PC, not just Classmates or XOs. It's not about price or energy requirements here, its about good education for kids. Can we get sugar as a Mac Ap at the Ap Store? I think Sugar-on-a-Stick (SoaS) can be plugged into recent Macs and works. You've always been able to plug SoaS into x86 Macs and have it work (just like any Linux distro), the latest version adds much better support for it and there's been specific interest in making it work properly with uEFI and all the Mac quirks. It's quite easy to use SoaS on a usb key on Macs and with something like VirtualBox you can run Sugar in a Window on Mac without too many issues. Sugar as an App on Mac is an interesting concept and with improving Mac support within GTK3 something like the Sugar in a Window concept we use for testing is quite conceivable once the Sugar port to GTK3 is complete, of course like everything it needs someone to step up and do the work. Peter In the spirit of exploring interesting concepts that might stimulate new development, might someone explain the obstacles that prevent Sugar from running on an iPad, as well, discuss potential approaches to overcome those obstacles. For example, Etoys, an independent but significant component in Sugar, can be run on an iPad since June 2010, http://croquetweak.blogspot.com/2010/06/squeak-etoys-on-ipad.html http://etoys.squeak.org/experimental/ipad/ Also with time, the current crop of iPads will become secondary devices as newer tablets are released. Folks will then be more willing to void warranties and experiment with the operating systems. --Fred Etoys runs in a virtual machine. Once that VM is ported to a new environment, Etoys will run. Sugar on the other hand is a desktop and collection of applications that require Linux and the Gnome toolkit (among other dependencies). Once a Linux VM with Gnome is running in an environment, the process of porting Sugar is *relatively* painless. So the question is: is there a Linux/Gnome VM for the iPad? iPhone? iWhatever? No because Apply explicitly doesn't allow other languages so we can't run python which means we need some form of python - objective-C compiler or similar to be able to run it on those sort of devices. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Sugar as a Mac Ap?
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 2012-06-13, at 07:50, Steven Thompson wrote: Even just in English in Japan could help kids. The common denomenator for jhs and hs kids is an iPhone or android and the iPad at home...much more so than buying an Intel Classmate or having a hope of getting an XO. Sugar can be installed on any PC, not just Classmates or XOs. It's not about price or energy requirements here, its about good education for kids. Can we get sugar as a Mac Ap at the Ap Store? I think Sugar-on-a-Stick (SoaS) can be plugged into recent Macs and works. You've always been able to plug SoaS into x86 Macs and have it work (just like any Linux distro), the latest version adds much better support for it and there's been specific interest in making it work properly with uEFI and all the Mac quirks. It's quite easy to use SoaS on a usb key on Macs and with something like VirtualBox you can run Sugar in a Window on Mac without too many issues. Sugar as an App on Mac is an interesting concept and with improving Mac support within GTK3 something like the Sugar in a Window concept we use for testing is quite conceivable once the Sugar port to GTK3 is complete, of course like everything it needs someone to step up and do the work. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] ANNOUNCE: Sugar on a Stick 7 (Quandong)
I'd like to announce Sugar on a Stick 7 (Quandong) There's been a lot of work go into this release from a lot of communities from Fedora and all the Fedora 17 features that give us new and exciting hardware support to the Sugar Labs community and all the new features that come with the Sugar 0.96 release on which SoaS v7 is based. Thanks go to all the people that have contributed to this release including Kalpa and Thomas who helped directly with SoaS, the Sugar development team and other Sugar developers. A lot of work has been done to ensure we can get working core Activities like Read and Browse and what should a good working base for deployments to test and add to. Some of the key new features of this release include: - Based on Fedora 17 and it's new features [1] - Massively improved x86 Mac support [2] - Sugar 0.96 with initial support for GTK3 Activities and many other improvements [3] - Return of Browse, now based on WebKit - The long awaited return of Read and inclusion of GetBooks - Enhanced hardware support with the 3.3 kernel - An increase in default Activities by nearly 50% Almost all of the previous Activities have seen updated releases including but not limited to: - Abacus 35 (GTK3) - Record 95 - Physics 9 - TurtleArt 138 Newly added Activities include: - Browse 137 (GTK3) - Countries 33 - Finance 7 - GetBooks 11 - Help 14 (GTK3) - Infoslicer 14 - Labyrinth 12 - Paint 43 - Portfolio 21 - Read 99 (GTK3) There are many more Activities available through the usual Fedora repositories. The release name, Quandong, continues the tradition of naming releases by types of fruit. The Quandong [4] or Native Peach is a native Australian bushfood. You can download the release from the following link. http://spins.fedoraproject.org/soas/ It can also be installed as part of a standard Fedora 17 install and is shipped as part of the official Fedora installer DVD and the Fedora Multi Spin Live DVD. It can also be installed from the GUI package tool within a running Fedora install or by command line sudo yum install @sugar-desktop. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/17/FeatureList [2] http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/12037.html [3] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.96/Notes [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santalum_acuminatum ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Cautions on using a f17 beta DVD to upgrade a f16 hard disk installed with sugar-desktop
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Thomas C Gilliard satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote: Caution; Just using the f17 Beta DVD to do an upgrade from f16 to f17 will leave an incomplete upgrade. DVD upgrade of F16 - to F17 requires yum update on Reboot to complete. [1] This is a very large update. There is no indication after you reboot after the DVD upgrade that this is required. Sugar has never been supported on the DVD upgrade, it most cases you would want to download a new live image or use the standard Fedora online upgrade process anyway as both are much smaller so it's not a major issue, and certainly isn't a recent breakage. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [OLPC-AU] [Sugar-devel] Browse is old
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 6:39 AM, Sridhar Dhanapalan srid...@laptop.org.au wrote: On 13 March 2012 07:15, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote: I don't use it day-to-day, but for more than two years now I've been installing (via 'rpm') the midori browser in all the XO-1 builds that have ever been made available. My intent has been to have at least one (not counting Surf) webkit-based browser for comparison purposes. Depending upon the base-build content, sometimes additional dependencies (packages) needed to be installed to let midori run -- but I've always had this non-Gecko browser available on my XO systems. Do you know where I can get binaries for this that will work on F14-based XO builds? yum install midori from a terminal prompt running as root, but you'll get a browser running the version of webkit that ships on F-14. It's basically the same functionality as epiphany in that they both use the same underlying version of webkit. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Browse is old
On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 4:58 AM, Sridhar Dhanapalan srid...@laptop.org.au wrote: On 3 March 2012 23:52, Sridhar Dhanapalan srid...@laptop.org.au wrote: Browse is old and not useful for a lot of newer content. Our communities are creating content in HTML5, an effort that we want to encourage. However, Browse is based on the Gecko in engine in Firefox 3.6, which is far behind the times. I know that is is being ported to WebKit [1] as part of the GTK+3 transition. However, it'll be at least a year before we roll out a GTK+3 version of Sugar in our schools. What can we do in the interim? We can load a different Web browser, especially since now since saved files can be shared with the journal via the Documents/ directory [3]. The best I've found is an Opera wrapper from Flavio [2]. It scores much higher than Browse for HTML5 compliance [4], but nowhere near as much as Firefox 10 or Chromium 17. Also, Opera is proprietary software. Sridhar [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/WebKit [2] http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4503 [3] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.94/Notes#Easier_file_exchange.. [4] http://html5test.com/ Bernie raised an interesting idea. Would it be reasonable to backport the WebKit Browse to the OLPC OS 11.3? We could statically link the dependencies in the bundle. Personally I think it's unlikely as the webkit Browse depends on newer versions of webkitgtk3/gtk3/glib2/gobject-introspection that just aren't in Fedora 14 and in a lot of cases conflict with the versions in Fedora 14. Browse depends on things that aren't even in Fedora 16 so it would likely be a lot of work to get it working, even as a static build. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [OLPC-AU] Browse is old
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Jerry Vonau jvo...@shaw.ca wrote: On Sat, 2012-03-03 at 23:52 +1100, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: Browse is old and not useful for a lot of newer content. Our communities are creating content in HTML5, an effort that we want to encourage. However, Browse is based on the Gecko in engine in Firefox 3.6, which is far behind the times. I know that is is being ported to WebKit [1] as part of the GTK+3 transition. However, it'll be at least a year before we roll out a GTK+3 version of Sugar in our schools. What can we do in the interim? We can load a different Web browser, especially since now since saved files can be shared with the journal via the Documents/ directory [3]. The best I've found is an Opera wrapper from Flavio [2]. It scores much higher than Browse for HTML5 compliance [4], but nowhere near as much as Firefox 10 or Chromium 17. Also, Opera is proprietary software. Sridhar [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/WebKit [2] http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4503 [3] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.94/Notes#Easier_file_exchange.. [4] http://html5test.com/ The biggest blocker for browse supporting HTML5 right now is that latest urlrunner that does support HTML5 from fedora(the last update before becoming EOL'd) is blocked from installation by olpc-os-builder by having the rpm present in the olpc rpm repositories.[0] I'm unsure if there are any changes done to the rpm by olpc or if this is fallout from building the olpc rpms for both i386 and arm while arm was in development. Yes, there's a bug that's patched. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] TI MSP430 running on XO 1 - Robotics!
2012/2/10 Yamaplos . yamap...@gmail.com: The TI MSP430 chips are a very attractive alternative to add robotic options for XO / Sugar users. Microcontrolers are the brain behind many engineering hobby and educational pursuits, but many alternatives are expensive or very hard to run in the XO. The TI Launchpad board, with a G2553 microcontroler and an extra G2452 in the box, is available from Texas Instruments for $4.30 USD, including shipping anywhere in the world (yes, hard to believe). http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/MSP430_LaunchPad_%28MSP-EXP430G2%29 Here are the instructions for running the Launchpad with the G2452. Maybe if the next iteratiuon of Sugar uses Fedora 15 we will be able to use the G2553 as well. http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/OLPC_XO-1 The next release will be based on F-17 but both those packages are listed. You might want to use one of the test releases based on F-17 that I've released (new one coming soon) to make sure it all works OK and feedback any issues to ensure we get them fixed for the final release. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Need Help With SoaS! (Including Mac)
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 7:06 PM, Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Folks... I finally have a couple of days with access to both PCs and my Mac, so now is the time to try SoaS! I need to be able to test it on both the Windows machines and the Mac. After about an hour of reading confusing, conflicting, and convoluted info online, I am now thoroughly just that... confused, conflicted and convoluted! Use Live USB creator on your PC. This a a cry for help! First some questions... and, please, if at all possible I don't want to go into terminal. When I try to show this to educators at SCaLE 10 X in January that will definitely turn them off. Prepare it before hand. 1) Is there any possibility of using the same SoaS stick on both a PC and a Mac with Virtual Box running (on the Mac)? Is there any reason to run Virtual Box on a PC to run SoaS? Would this be a way to get the same usb stick to work on both? If you boot the PC/Mac off a USB key you should be able to use one key for both. 2) Some folks have reported being able to get SoaS to run on a Mac with persistent storage. Exactly how, in simple terms did they do this? Virtual Box I assume? But, maybe I am mistaken. Using a USB key with the LiveUSB creator you should be able to use persistent storage. 3) When I set up the Live USB creator parameters, what do you recommend for persistent storage? I am using a 4 GB stick. 4Gb is reasonable. 4) Is there an easy way to add Activities to the SoaS build? If so, does this need to be done before the stick is created or can they be added later? After, with persistent storage. I'm sure this will be enough to get me started, but there will undoubtedly be other questions as I go along. Peter BTW I suggest you send emails like this just to the SoaS lists, there's no need to send it everywhere. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Announcing the release of Sugar on a Stick 6 (Pineapple)
Hi All, I'd like to like to announce the release of Sugar on a Stick version 6 (codename Pineapple). Available for both i686 and x86_64 platforms this release brings the newly released Sugar 0.94.1 to a base of Fedora 16. It includes a lot of new and updated Activities as well as improved support for booting on Apple intel based devices. The latest release of Sugar includes improved functionality in the Joural including options to Duplicate entries and enhanced copy and exchange functionality. There is also improvements in the viewing and duplication of source code and in search. Full details can be found in the release notes [1] including changes that affect developers. The latest features of Fedora 16 (Verne) can be discovered in their release notes [2]. New Activities in this release include Ruler, Maze, Moon, Clock, Image Viewer, Jukebox, Typing Turtle and Visual Match Improved and updated Activities include the usual candidates Write, Chat, Caclulate, Memorize, Physics, Pippy, Record, Surf, TurtleArt, Abacus, IRC and Speak. More details about the SoaS project and how to get involved can be found on the Sugar on a Stick home page [3]. You can download the latest Sugar on a Stick at it's spin page below as usual. A few new options for getting SoaS are going to be available with this release. For the first time SoaS is going to be shipped on the Fedora Multi Spin DVD which means we'll be shipping on the front a number of computer magazines across Europe and likely elsewhere in the coming months. I am also working with On-Disk [4] to get SoaSv6 on their site very soon so that its available in a variety of live media formats to make it easier for interested pilots and end users, more details will be available about that soon. Download: http://spins.fedoraproject.org/soas I'd like to thank all those who assisted in getting such a good release out the door including Kalpa who's joined the packaging team, Thomas with his tireless testing, Daniel for his assistance with NetworkManager porting and the entire upstream Fedora crew (who are too many to name!). Regards, Peter [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.94/Notes [2] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/16/html/Release_Notes/index.html [3] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick [4] http://on-disk.com ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Sugar Digest 2011-10-18
On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: == Sugar Digest == 1. Daniel Drake has announced the second release candidate of the new OLPC software release [0], which incorporates the latest Sugar bits. You can download 'signed' images for testing from: [1-3]. The final release is scheduled for 1 November. 2. OLPC OZ runs a discussion website on yammer.com for teachers working with XOs in Australia. It is a nice source of feedback about Sugar and 1-to-1 laptop deployments in general. Recently, there was a posting that referenced an OLPC News article about a lemon-battery project [4] by Sameer Verma. There was also a tip of the hat to Guzman Trindad, a teacher in Uruguay, who built a pulse meter [5]. I am not sure how OLPC News missed all of the other great work that Guzman has been doing [6] with Turtle Art and sensors [7] and also the work of Tony Forster [8], who blogs [9] regularly about various ways to engage children with simple sensor. His most recent posting is about using the accelerometer on the XO 1.75 as a seismograph. Check it out. 3. While Guzman and Tony have been using the built-in sensors and simple sensors plugged into the microphone port of the XO laptop, the Butia team in Uruguay has been augmenting the XO with an Arduino board. The latest video of their work is on YouTube [10]. Be sure to watch past the 'Schwarzenegger' robot to see the XO robot programmed in Turtle Art. 4. A few weeks ago, Team Sugarlabs participated in the Boston Hub on Wheels bicycle tour (See Team Sugarlabs [11]). Dogi road with an XO attached to his handlebars, but he wasn't running the Turtle Art odometer program. 5. We've passed six-million downloads on ASLO [12]. === In the community === 6. The SF Summit [13] is this coming weekend, 21-23 October. 7. The Prague Sugar Camp (Gtk3 Hackfest 2011 [14]) is next weekend, 28-30 October. 8. Reminder: As a community member, it is important that your voice be heard. One mechanism is for you to participate in our upcoming election: We will be holding an election for three Sugar Labs oversight board (SLOB) positions at the end of next month. If you are not already a ''member'' [15] of Sugar Labs, please send your name and an explanation of your contribution to Sugar Labs in an email to '''members at sugarlabs dot org'''. If you are a member, please consider being a candidate [16] for one of the SLOB positions. === Tech Talk === 9. Rob Savoye has managed to build Gnash for ARM. He has made RPMs for the XO 1.75 machine. To install his RPMs, add this .repo file to your XO: We do actually already have gnash on ARM, it ships with the signed release above :-) Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Sugar Digest 2011-10-11
On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 5:03 AM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: .. The only activity shipped with Sugar is a very old version of Turtle Art./ Plan Ceibal installed that Sugar 0.87.1, (on Ubuntu 10.04.3) because they didn't Know that TurtleArt Runs on Ubunto+Gnome, they think that running Turtle Art under Sugar is the only Way to install it. Turtleart runs under Gnome. Unfortunately later XO OS's hide the Activities directory and do not allow read access. If you do not have the permissions or skill you can not then run Turtleart in Gnome. It might be good to include Turtleart with Gnome, in the same way Inkscape, Gnumeric and Abiword work out of the box. Is this practical? Indeed it would, I didn't even realise it ran under gnome. Walter, any chance of getting a .desktop file shipped as part of the release to make it easy to run under gnome, let me know if you want me to help get that done. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Sugar on Fedora on Power PC
Hi All, I know a number of people are interested in Sugar on Power PC. With the upcoming release of Fedora 16 the Power PC Secondary Arch is in full swing and they plan on releasing Fedora 16 for PPC shortly after the mainline F-16 release. I don't have the hardware or the time to deal with anything to do with that but for those that are I suggest you have a look, do some testing on G4 or relevant hardware and provide the PPC team some feedback for the upcoming release. More info here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/PowerPC Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] what is this keyring needed for?
SoaS 5 will be out in the next week or so and that is fixed. There's a scriptlet which you can use to remove it but its a little fiddly. Peter On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 5:24 PM, David Ally david_a...@yahoo.com wrote: I got sugar on a stick fedora 14 and created the usb but while downloading some activities, this keyring stuff pop up and requested for password. To set up a simple password, it was requesting for very strong password, and thereafter kept on asking for it. How do I deactivate this feature? I do not think little children need a complex stuff. Best regards! David ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] ASUS Eee PC X101 @ $199: A worthy non-XO platform for Sugar?
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Ron Feigenblatt doc...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Christoph Derndorfer e0425...@student.tuwien.ac.at wrote: Asus Germany just announced that the X101 should become available in Austria and Germany in mid-August and with a price tag of €169 (~$241). I think this might just become my next impulse purchase;-) ...As an aside, my personal interest in the X101 is more closely related to education projects rather than Meego itself. People and organizations are regularly approaching me about using XOs and Sugar for projects but the defacto non-availability of classroom-sized XO purchases tends to kill their motivation rather quickly. Having another very inexpensive solution in this space might just be the catalyst many folks need! :-) If the X101 runs Sugar on a Stick (SoS), isn't most of what you need accomplished? In recent years, I have not closely followed OLPC and Sugar. Does SoS exclude any important features, e.g. networking multiple PCs? No, generally SoaS aims at being compatible with the XO OS releases where possible, but generally a bit further ahead. The EEE netbook family is about four years old; millions have been sold. You might even borrow one at TUW right now, to try booting SoS. The EEE netbooks also use all sorts of chips so it works on most but not all. I'm awaiting the X101 to hit the shelves so we can see more details. In most cases now days the only issue we see on netbooks is those that use the X series atom processors and that is due to their GPU. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [support-gang] [ANNOUNCE] Sugar Labs Licensing Referendum (non-binding) results
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 4:43 PM, Luke Faraone l...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On 07/10/2011 10:23 PM, Gary Martin wrote: I was surprised as I had no recollection at all of the original email (subscribed to way too many Sugar related lists), but after some digging found it had been clobbered as junk email, so not sure who else this may have hit, but thought it worth mentioning. Odd. Did you at least get the mail from Selectricity? It came through on my gmail and wasn't marked as spam but I was busy and forgot about the election. I would have thought there would have been a reminder. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [OLPC-AU] More 'human' voice synth (TTS)
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 8:25 AM, Sridhar Dhanapalan srid...@laptop.org.auwrote: I'm wondering if there's anything we can do to make TTS sound more 'human'. We'd like to be able to use the XOs to teach English literacy, but the espeak voices are very robotic. My understanding is that espeak is optimised for low-power devices (great for XOs) and clear (if robotic) speech. Would it be feasible to switch to something else, like festival? You might want to look at speed-dispatcher. It can be configured for multiple backends. Its already packaged in Fedora. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] What's on SoaS?
Hi Caryl, On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi All Is there a link that tells what is included (Sugar Activities, Gnome(?)) etc. on each build of SoaS? I poked around a bit on the Sugar Labs wiki, but couldn't find it. The list for SoaS v5 currently is: sugar-abacus sugar-browse sugar-calculator sugar-chat sugar-log sugar-memorize sugar-physics sugar-pippy sugar-read sugar-record sugar-speak sugar-terminal sugar-turtleart sugar-write sugar-xoirc SoaS v4 wasn't much different. There's been a few more added to v5 (abacus comes to mind). Currently Browse and Read don't work. I should have Surf included in time to replace Browse but I'm not sure about whether Read will be fixed in time or not. Is there any others in particular you would like included? We don't ship gnome as part of Sugar on a Stick. Regards, Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] ANNOUNCE: Moving Sugar to GPLv3+
On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 1:00 AM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, 2011-04-21 at 18:47 -0400, C. Scott Ananian wrote: On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Q: Do we need to ask the permission of all copyright holders? A: No, we'll take advantage of the or any later version clause in the current license. We're not retroactively re-licensing existing code. This isn't actually true. You can't change the license on my code -- it's still GPLv2 or later. You can make a combined work where the new parts are GPLv3, and you can redistribute it under the terms of the GPLv3 (because of the or later), but you cannot change the license on the existing code unless you are the sole owner. That is why the FSF does copyright assignment. Isn't this exactly what I wrote? We're not retroactively re-licensing existing code. Really? By moving to GPLv3 your removing the ability to use GPLv2 which is by definition a re-license of the code. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Exploring Sugar-on-Tablets
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 7:24 PM, Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com wrote: This is very exciting stuff! Being hardware independent would be great. I look forward to seeing it work in Uruguay! Sugar already is hardware independent. It runs quite happily on a range of x86, ARM, PPC amongst others. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Exploring Sugar-on-Tablets
Hi Caryl, On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 9:43 PM, Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Peter, PCs and Linux machines yes. But... there still lots of issues with Macs and so far it does not work with the older G4 Power PC Macs (EToys to go does!). Android won't fix the PowerPC support either. Sugar does work with G4 power PCs just fine, supported at the moment it isn't but it does work. The Fedora PowerPC Secondary arch is amping back up to a working release. Its at the point where if you have an engineer with the time and interest in spending some time and with hardware to build and test it would be pretty easy to get Sugar on a Stick running on G4 hardware. I don't have the time nor the hardware, but if you know of someone that meets that description point them to the SoaS list and I will happily provide them assistance where possible. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Live USB Creator on Windows
Hi All, There's (finally) a new Live USB Creator out for Windows that fixes the issues seen with creation of SoaS v4 Live USB keys. You can get it from here https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/ (you want version 3.9.3). Details are here for those that are interested in what's fixed http://lewk.org/blog/liveusb-creator-3.9.3.html Thanks all for your patience. This should make it much easier for creation of USB sticks on Windows machines. Regards, Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [SoaS] Moving On.
Sebastian, Firstly a massive THANK YOU! I think Sugar as a whole is better off for Sugar on a Stick and your work from my perspective at least is greatly appreciated! On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 6:57 AM, Sebastian Dziallas sebast...@when.com wrote: The Short Version: As many of you might have noticed, my activities within Sugar Labs have been fading lately. I'd like to take the only responsible step and hand my responsibilities off. The Long Version: I didn't expect to see myself writing this email. I'm currently a student at Olin working really hard to make it through finals and at the same time fighting RSI and dealing with other things (http://sdziallas.com/blog/sebastian/2010/11/a-kid-in-the-candy-store.html). But I also feel that I've been dragging this e-mail out way too long. I'm sorry. Nevertheless, I'm proud of what we accomplished over the past years. I have great memories from the initial release of Sugar on a Stick at LinuxTag (http://sdziallas.com/blog/sebastian/2009/06/strawberries-for-everyone-now.html) and I still smile when I think of how we recovered from the ridiculous unsustainability of the second release (http://opensource.com/education/09/12/tasty-blueberry) and eventually even made the third release as a team together (http://sdziallas.com/blog/sebastian/2010/05/mirabelles-they-are-there.html). Looking back, I found myself skimming old wiki pages and blog posts (http://blog.melchua.com/2010/06/04/the-history-of-the-soas-mirabelle-release-learning-from-the-past/). I'm particularly thankful for the experiences I had and the people I met. However, I feel that it's time to move on. I'll be unsubscribing from a couple of mailing lists, but I'll continue to work on bridging open source and education on various levels and I'm always open to direct email. Just a ping away. Email this address. For Sugar on a Stick, Peter Robinson has alreading been leading the effort up to the latest Mango Lassi release of Sugar on a Stick and done an incredible work over the past year, leaving me confident that everything was taken care of when I had to focus on my studies (both in Germany and the US). I know from personal experience that taking on this work isn't an easy task and I don't want to assume that you're just going to continue doing it infinitely. It is your call. But you've done a great job. Thanks, Peter! I will continue for the moment. I myself have been going through a number of changes, my free time is not what it was 6 months ago but I don't want to see SoaS die as a think its a worthwhile project. I would love to see other people get involved in the maintenance of the project. I'm already moving towards SoaS-5 and Fedora 15. I've not had time over the last couple of months but have some time off over the new year so would love to hear what people are planning for SoaS-5 and what they would like to see. In terms of features there's a LOT coming from upstream Fedora 15 but I'm not sure what the Sugar team has planned for Sugar 0.92 as yet. Personally I would love to see some testing of languages other than English and support for EU languages (Sean... hint hint ;-) ). Cheers, Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Follow-up. Next Question: Which Fedora?
Blueberry was just 32bit. Mirabelle was the first to support both 32 and 64 bit, it was one of the side effects of the move to Fedora infra and release process. Peter On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com wrote: Thanks for the answers to the .iso vs .vdi question. Now, is SoaS Blueberry done in Fedora or Fedora 64? Caryl ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Tablets are game changers for special needs children
Hi All, There's some interesting bits linked here about how tablets are massively helpful for children with special needs, something to consider when dealing with development for the XO-3 and related technologies. http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/10/16/1621227/Tablets-Are-Game-Changers-For-Special-Needs-Kids?from=rss Regards, Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Gnome vs Sugar -- The judgement day
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 4:41 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:29 PM, Kevin Cole kjc...@dc.sugarlabs.org wrote: That's sort of where I was thinking: Make it harder or at least something requiring more than a button push. I know when I was having troubles with not being able to use the mouse, I was able to get to a virtual terminal, drill down to the appropriate file and edit it to switch desktop environments. I'm not saying it has to be THAT obscure, but something requiring a wee bit of effort may suffice... And presumably, one thing that could be done from Terminal is to install the control-panel section. yum install olpc-switch-desktop would do that for you. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] liveusb-creator error
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Gonzalo Odiard godi...@gmail.com wrote: The problelm appear when it is creating the overlay partition. Can you try doing a small overlay? How big is the usb key? You'll need at least 2 gig for an overlay. Peter On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Werner Westermann werne...@gmail.com wrote: ups, forgot the log. 2010/6/23 Werner Westermann werne...@gmail.com Gonzalo, I don't think that's the problem. I've even reformated the usb drive, and had the same error ... I send again the last log. What could be happening? Nobody else wit the same problem. Thanks again, werner 2010/6/23 Gonzalo Odiard godi...@gmail.com In the file you can see: dd: escribiendo «/media/KINGSTON/LiveOS/overlay-KINGSTON-3CAA-3E26»: No queda espacio en el dispositivo This is the problem. Gonzalo On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Werner Westermann werne...@gmail.com wrote: Gracias Gonzalo!!! There it goes ... werner 2010/6/23 Gonzalo Odiard godi...@gmail.com Have you see the 'liveusb-creator.log' file? Can you send it? Gonzalo On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Werner Westermann werne...@gmail.com wrote: Hello. After being a Debian user, Sugar has led me to make my first steps with Fedora, specially because I had no way to make a SoaS with Debian or Ubuntu. But trying with liveusb-creator with Fedora, I had this error: There was a problem executing the following command: `dd if=/dev/zero of=/media/KINGSTON/LiveOS/overlay-KINGSTON-3CAA-3E26 count=1428 bs=1M` A more detailed error log has been written to 'liveusb-creator.log' Any thougts of what I might be doing wrong? Thank you all, werner http://cl.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [SLOBS] RFC: F11-0.88 as a Sugar Labs Project
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 1:17 PM, David Farning dfarn...@ubuntu.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 10:20 PM, Mel Chua m...@melchua.com wrote: On 06/17/2010 10:28 PM, Bernie Innocenti wrote: At the next meeting, I would like to propose the Fedora 11 with Sugar 0.88 builds for the XO-1 and XO-1.5 as a new official project. It is sponsored jointly by Paraguay Educa and Activity Central, coordinated by me and hosted by the Sugar Labs infrastructure: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Deployment_Team/Sugar-0.88 http://people.sugarlabs.org/bernie/olpc/f11-xo1-0.88/ If the board approves, I will add a link to the sidebar, near Sugar on a Stick, and create a top-level homepage with content directed at users. I need help picking a pronounceable name, F11-0.88 is revolting. Posted to http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board/Minutes#Agenda_items as a motion, since all the links are public anyhow and the discussion will be as well. I would encourage that F11-S0.88 _not_ become an official Sugar Labs at this time. My biggest concern is maintenance responsible. If the project becomes an official project, Sugar Labs has an implied maintenance responsibility. If F11-S0.88 sucks, it will cast a long shadow on the upstream project Sugar Labs not the downstream project where that shadow belongs. On the other hand, if Sugar Labs would like to assume maintenance responsibility they are welcome to roll the project into SL. I agree with your points above. With Fedora 11 having days left of upstream support we're going back down the road of Fedora 7 OLPC style forks which it was my understanding due to the lack of people paid to support it Sugar Labs as a whole wanted to get away from that. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [SoaS] [Sugar-devel] Heads-up: POSSE folks hacking in Fedora/Sugar thisweek and next
On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Art Hunkins abhun...@uncg.edu wrote: I've noticed that neither the SoaS CD Boot Helper nor the SoaS Floppy Disk Boot Helper manage to boot SoaS Mirabelle (Fedora 13). (For that matter, the Floppy Disk Helper doesn't boot anything but Strawberry.) I don't think Floppy Disks are relevant at all. I doubt any of the developers actually have a floppy drive to test. For the boot helper CD. I have no interest in getting it working, I have asked people to provide me specific devices that have problems and need the boot helper CD. The only one i've ever got back is newer Mac's. I know what that problem is. For the rest no one has bothered to send me the specs so I haven't bothered spending the time. Is anybody interested in working on this, or are we basically abandoning older computers? See above. Peter Art Hunkins - Original Message - From: Mel Chua m...@melchua.com To: fedora-education-l...@redhat.com; o...@lists.fedoraproject.org; iaep iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org; SoaS s...@lists.sugarlabs.org Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 10:48 AM Subject: [Sugar-devel] Heads-up: POSSE folks hacking in Fedora/Sugar thisweek and next Next week we'll have another - slightly larger - batch from RIT doing the same thing, with myself, Chris Tyler, and Luke Macken focusing more on how to make Fedora a better environment for running/deploying/developing Sugar - if you have any thoughts in this direction, please send comments our way! (Things we've come up with so far: general Python development stuff, liveusb-creator hacks, SVG rendering working strangely in different recent versions of Fedora... we need to turn this into a proper ticket queue.) Just wanted to let y'all know. I'll blog this to Planet in a moment. --Mel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ SoaS mailing list s...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/soas ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] OLPC rules out Windows for XO-3
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi, Linux has been running well on ARM for a long long time. Yeah. In specific, today I got Sugar running on the ARM SoC we'll be using for XO-1.75 and XO-3, and it didn't require any porting at all. It would have happened yesterday, but I had to work out how to get past the Sugar intro/login screen without a keyboard. :-) That's cool! A couple of questions What's the plan for the boot loader, is it planned to use OF still and port it to the ARM platform or is it planned to use one of the more mainline ARM bootloaders such as uboot or the like. Also what's the plan with the virtual keyboard support in sugar. It might be worth looking at the MeeGo/Moblin based VKB stuff as a basis. Its skinnable and supported various inputs via scim and integrates with that. Let me know if you need more info as I've been packaging some of this up in Fedora as part of my work with the aforementioned UIs in Fedora. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] OLPC rules out Windows for XO-3
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Sayamindu Dasgupta sayami...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: Hi, Linux has been running well on ARM for a long long time. Yeah. In specific, today I got Sugar running on the ARM SoC we'll be using for XO-1.75 and XO-3, and it didn't require any porting at all. It would have happened yesterday, but I had to work out how to get past the Sugar intro/login screen without a keyboard. :-) That's cool! A couple of questions What's the plan for the boot loader, is it planned to use OF still and port it to the ARM platform or is it planned to use one of the more mainline ARM bootloaders such as uboot or the like. Also what's the plan with the virtual keyboard support in sugar. It might be worth looking at the MeeGo/Moblin based VKB stuff as a basis. Its skinnable and supported various inputs via scim and integrates with that. Let me know if you need more info as I've been packaging some of this up in Fedora as part of my work with the aforementioned UIs in Fedora. At one point I had tried to evaluate the possible virtual/on-screen keyboards that could be used for Sugar, and at that time it looked like each used their own keyboard layout data format. Something which leverages existing mechanisms like SCIM/M17N/IBus/etc would certainly be an improvement. Could you point me to the source code repo of VKB - I would love to take a look. I'm not sure if this is the the best current upstream because of the changes in the Moblin/MeeGo side of things but the git here is relatively recent fvkbd is the actual virtual keyboard. This is also in Fedora. http://git.moblin.org/cgit.cgi/fvkbd/ scim-panel-vkb-gtk is the scim overlay stuff. It will be in Fedora 14 and likely pushed back to F-12/F13. http://git.moblin.org/cgit.cgi/scim-panel-vkb-gtk/ Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] One Laptop per Child and Marvell Join Forces to Redefine Tablet Computing for Students Around the World
Hi Chris, http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/one-laptop-per-child-and-marvell-join-forces-to-redefine-tablet-computing-for-students-around-the-world-95007559.html The press release doesn't say so, but the tablet will run Sugar and GNOME over Fedora. A belated follow-up: I don't know why you said this, because we've made no such decision yet. Sugar's a safe bet, but there are large obstacles to running either Fedora (no ARM port yet!) or GNOME (not suited for touchscreen use) on the tablets. We'll let you know when we do announce the software stack for XO-1.75 and XO-3. There is an ARM port for Fedora, and it happens to work very well with the Marvell ARM chips with at least two contributors from Marvell helping out. The Fedora ARM port is good enough that it was used straight up as the basis for the MeeGo ARM support. The only thing that's missing is a kernel for the specific device as the arm kernels can be very device specific but I doubt that will be a major issue as that is currently the case for the XO-1 and XO-1.5 (of course I wish its wasn't but there's still outstanding kernel patches needed for event the XO-1). The Fedora ARM movement is growing very quickly with a full koji build farm of 20 odd buildsystems and an increasing community. From the gnome side I mostly agree, although the underlying infra will be fully multitouch enabled with gnome 3. The issue with the gnome 3 interface, which is relatively touch friendly, is its dependence on 3D GPUs for the OpenGL rendering and the face that the existence of open source 3D drivers on ARM is non existent and even worse than the state of the x86 a year or two ago. (The fact that we haven't decided what to use doesn't mean that we definitely *won't* use Fedora or GNOME. It simply means that we haven't decided yet. Advice welcome!) Let me know if you need help, or details of people from the Fedora side who could assist. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] Soliciting SoaS v.4 Codename Colour Suggestions
I believe the themeing for SoaS is Icecream and not berries. I vote for vanilla or Cookies Cream :-P Peter On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: Gooseberry. Green. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gooseberry Tasty, funny name, what more do we want? ;) - Bert - On 03.06.2010, at 20:31, Sebastian Dziallas wrote: We'd like to kick off the process for the upcoming Sugar on a Stick v.4 already, while gearing up for the SoaS PR at LinuxTag, too. And so we're looking forward to your ideas and suggestions on the codename and colour selections for the next release iteration. These will be discussed at the next meeting, which is scheduled to take place on Monday, June 7 on 1900 UTC in #sugar-meeting. Thanks, --Sebastian ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ Marketing mailing list market...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/marketing ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] OLPC rules out Windows for XO-3
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 17:52, John Tierney jtis4...@hotmail.com wrote: Thought this article would be of interest to the community. OLPC Rules out Windows for XO-3 http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/052710-olpc-rules-out-windows-for.html Ed's mentions of Sugar, Sugar Labs and the Sugar community are very nice. And he's right about the importance of Sugar growing support for touch-based interfaces. Anybody has thought about it? How much support for it do we get by default though gtk/pygtk/xorg support from upstream? I presume we might have to do some changes to make advanced use of it in sugar core, and possibly but surely we get quite a reasonable amount by virtue of support in upstream. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Reformat USB stick, How?
Hi Caryl, In my experiments trying to create usable SoaS sticks, I have had a few flops. Unfortunately these USB sticks now have a severe identity crisis. They believe they are actually CDs. You can't write to them. You can't rename them (at least not in a way a mere mortal like me knows how to do). Do I have to just junk them (like throwing away money... not good). Or, is there an easy way to reformat them and start all over? Maybe even a hard way? No need to throw them away. They will be recoverable one way or another. This sort of thing happens when you happen to write an ISO to the key. On a device running a linux GUI (say gnome) plug in the device and then run 'dmesg' from the command prompt to see what device its assigned. If it automounts the 'CD' you'll need to unmount it (but don't eject it). Once you know the device name run 'gparted /dev/sdd' (replacing sdd with what ever the device name is). Make sure the right device is showing in the drop down box in the top right hand corner. From the Device menu select the option to Create Partition Table. By default this will create a msdos partition table. IT WILL DELETE EVERYTHING ON THE DISK, so make sure you have the right one selected. Once that is complete you can create a new vfat partition and format it (gparted can do all that) and even label it. From there you should be back to a normal usb key. Let me know how you get on. Cheers, Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Long-term development strategy (Was: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119)
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 2:52 AM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: On Fri, 2010-04-16 at 23:31 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: [...] I'm not against packaging Sugar for RHEL. I just think it would cost more to support after the first year or two. Agreed. And in fact I said that exactly and hence my reference to the 18 month to 2.5 year point but the fact is by then you'll almost be to RHEL N+1 release so you role it over. Oh, now I get it. And I think I agree with you. The EL packaging makes it easy enough that its if it compile and there is demand for it then you can do so because to push it out isn't had if it stops compiling you send it out to the lists and either people care enough to fix the problem or else it stays on what ever the currently compiling version is. Sort of like the extended maintenance of the 0.84.x releases. Agreed here too (we're on the good way). Your making the problem like a Cross Road in a road. Its really not that. We are going to be following the upstream Fedora releases but I really don't think it will be hard to follow a RHEL release train either. In the F-7 to F-10 time frame the changes were massive. I know I had to assist in merging them upstream. But since then there's not been massive underlying changes that aren't manageable. The biggest I think are probably Tomeu's plans for the telepathy stuff and that is just to bring us back in line with the main line. I really hope you're wrong, but I'm afraid you're correct. We'd still have to change so much before Sugar becomes as mature and usable as Gnome is nowadays. Besides toemu's rewrite of the collaboration stack, there's Sascha's rewrite of the datastore still in the works. Yes, but I suspect that's more an internal change to the underlying structure and design rather than something that is going to require the latest and greatest library version X that's not released yet. I think the next big disruptive change will be python3 and associated pygtk changes, and while I don't have a crystal ball I think we can either stick with the current and it will be supported or there will be ways to support the new stuff. I'm not looking forward for Python 3. Every other large Python project has been procrastinating on this transition because there's not much to gain and a lot to loose. Yes, but its starting to pick momentum now. The first 3.x release is out fixing up some of the issues. Fedora 13 will have a python3 package and the python hack fest hosted at OLPC's office to bring up the gnome python bindings in preparation for gnome 3 also had quite a focus on support for python3 too, For us, switching to Python 3 would be unthinkably disruptive: half of the activities would remain broken for years, unless we maintain a Python 2 stack for backwards compatibility... /me shrugs And there is a perfect reason for a stable distro such as RHEL or CentOS :-) Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Long-term development strategy (Was: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119)
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: On Tue, 2010-04-13 at 07:59 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: I agree on this, but it misses the point :-) Not exactly. That was just supposed to continue your point-point-point pun :) * GSM connectivity requires up-to-date versions of udev and modem-manager to support USB dongles commonly available in stores RH updates those sort of components regularly to ensure support. This isn't a trivial bugfix or a matter of a missing product ID. It's an entire missing subsystem. I asked Harald Hoyer, the maintainer of udev, if there was a way to back-port the mode switch functionality from F12 to F11 and he told me good luck with it. Yes, but usb_modeswitch works quite well. There's been a lot change since RHEL 5 was released about 3 years ago. I think RHEL-6 will be somewhat more easy in that regard because a lot of the building blocks that weren't in place 3 years ago are now. * Playing multimedia content downloaded from the Internet requires gstreamer with up-to-date codecs That is not due to up to date codecs but rather patent free codecs. Completely different issues. That is as valid with F-13 today as RHEL-5 RPM Fusion does indeed support RHEL5, but that's quite surprising. Enterprise distros have a tiny user base relative to the mainstream ones and tend to be badly supported even by proprietary software vendors such as Skype and Adobe. Hmm. Skype isn't what I would call an enterprise product. If you want enterprise VoIP you'd use enterprise. Adobe still support acroread etc on RHEL-4! * activities such as Record tend to uncover obscure bugs in GStreamer Nothing stopping these being fixed in RHEL/CentOS. Nothing stops bugs from being fixed on Red Hat 7.2 either, as long as you're willing to invest your own time to do it. Yes, but being supported on the enterprise product means its more likely to be fixed in their stream. It also gives you a more stable environment rather that something that is like running across jelly. * Browse depends on xulrunner for security and compatiblity with web standards. Surfing the web today with a version of Firefox from 3 years ago would be unthinkable RHEL updates this regularly as well and actively moves to the current version. I believe RHEL-5 has firefox 3.5 Ha! Upgrading Firefox to version 3.5 would break the xulrunner ABI, on which we depend for hulahop (and hence Browse). Yes, but we would have packages in the later versions of fedora that would support the later ABI of the newer versions of firefox that we would be able to compile against it so that isn't a major problem. One of the advantages of following both release trains. If adding features incrementally without ever breaking the ABI was feasible, the mainstream distros would do it as well. See point above. * ...not to mention NetworkManager... Mention what about it? We don't use any of the latest NM features, its stable and the maintainer actively assists and accepts patches. Stable?!? See this thread (it's broken up across 3 months in the pipermail archives): http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2010-February/thread.html#27505 umm we're talking RHEL or a RHEL derived distro. That side will be stable. and the core components of NM are stable. The thread that you reference from the quick read I had was due to instability in the driver that was worked around in NetworkManager so that can only talk up not down NM support! Besides this one, there were also other problems. I'd say NM was a major headache for this development cycle. Really? I bet it was more the underlying driver issues that were more the case. Almost all of the issues I have wit NM ultimately are the drivers not NM at all. In fact alot of the differences in packages were merged back in by me in the F-10/F-11 timeframe. I'm well aware of those issues, I still track them closely. I just wish it was the same with the kernel :-) Sorry, I totally forgot about the awesome work you had done for upstreaming OLPC changes into Fedora. :-) 2) we switch to a real package system for activities with full support for dependency checking and a build cluster for multiple targets. One word. PackageKit. Then its agnostic for all the distributions. +1 from me, but many Sugar developers wish to maintain the status quo. It's been discussed many times in the past. Unless the distributors take the initiative to do the work, it looks like native packaging formats aren't going to be supported by Sugar anytime soon. People are slowly coming around, and I'm slowly bribing people :-D You've obviously not dealt with them then on the RHEL side of things. I work for a company that had over 1200 RHEL systems. Are we talking about paid support or free support? I'm sure you can get RH to fix any bug if you purchase 1200 RHEL licenses from them. We pay for support (RHEL you need
Re: [IAEP] SoaS on What Machines?
Hi Caryl, The netbook that I am recommending at the moment is the Acer Aspire One 532H http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/13/acer-aspire-one-532h-review/ It is well supported in Fedora (I think everything works out of the box for both Fedora and Sugar) and is the device that Mel is using for her pilot in Boston. Its the newer generation of hardware. It comes with Windows 7 but then most current netbooks do. Peter On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 5:35 AM, Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi All... I have decided that I really should invest in an inexpensive windows laptop or netbook to use in my volunteer work with Sugar Labs and OLPC. I have been looking online and visited one electronics store yesterday (Fry's). Here are my thoughts... I would prefer an ultralight netbook with a good webcam so I can travel with it and use it for Skype. If I get a netbook it will have to have 3 usb ports so that I can plug in an optical drive that can burn dvds and cds. The one I am looking at draws it's power from 2 usb ports so I would need another to be able to plug in a usb stick or drive or anything else usb (unless I get a usb hub... rather not). I don't like windows in general, but If I have to have it, would prefer xp. Linux is nice, but the easiest instructions seem to be for Windows machines and very few of the educators I will be working with will have Linux. At Fry's they let me play a bit. I put an SoaS usb stick in an MSI and it booted on startup with no problems. It would not start on a Gateway. With no optical drive, I can't rely on a boot helper cd. There were other, more expensive machines, but time was short so that was all I tried. I want to spend as little $$$ as possible. After all, I have a perfectly wonderful MacBook and this other machine will be used mainly for my volunteer work. The Mac will run SoaS, with a boot helper disk, will burn cds and dvds, but it is much easier to create the SoaS sticks on a Windows machine. So here is the question... Which netbooks and laptops will work with SoaS on a Plug-'n-Play basis like the MSI did? Do you know of any other electronics store chains that might let me come in and test SoaS on their floor models? Do you know of any place to get a really good price on these machines? My son (a Computer Educator Extraordinare) said he likes Toshiba, Samsung, and either Acer or Asus but has not tried Sugar on any of them. He definitely advised against getting the MSI. I would love to get this before the 24th so I would have it at the InfoTech exhibit. Any and all suggestions would be welcome. Caryl P.S. There goes my tax refund! ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [SoaS] SoaS on What Machines?
Yes, The wireless on all the Acer Aspire Ones is atheros based. On the older 11g devices its ath5k based, on the newer ones with 11n its ath9k. The Acer Aspire One 532H is currently the device I'm recommending for people who want to use Fedora Mini (either Sugar or Moblin). Cheers, Peter On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Thomas C Gilliard satel...@bendbroadband.com wrote: Peter; Does the Acer Aspire One 532H support wireless in fedora? I have the EeePC1000HE here and have to use Ubuntu 9.04 to get wireless to work. MY test netbook:EeePC900 (mandriva) does work with soas out of the box. Tom Gilliard Peter Robinson wrote: Hi Caryl, The netbook that I am recommending at the moment is the Acer Aspire One 532H http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/13/acer-aspire-one-532h-review/ It is well supported in Fedora (I think everything works out of the box for both Fedora and Sugar) and is the device that Mel is using for her pilot in Boston. Its the newer generation of hardware. It comes with Windows 7 but then most current netbooks do. Peter On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 5:35 AM, Caryl Bigenho cbige...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi All... I have decided that I really should invest in an inexpensive windows laptop or netbook to use in my volunteer work with Sugar Labs and OLPC. I have been looking online and visited one electronics store yesterday (Fry's). Here are my thoughts... I would prefer an ultralight netbook with a good webcam so I can travel with it and use it for Skype. If I get a netbook it will have to have 3 usb ports so that I can plug in an optical drive that can burn dvds and cds. The one I am looking at draws it's power from 2 usb ports so I would need another to be able to plug in a usb stick or drive or anything else usb (unless I get a usb hub... rather not). I don't like windows in general, but If I have to have it, would prefer xp. Linux is nice, but the easiest instructions seem to be for Windows machines and very few of the educators I will be working with will have Linux. At Fry's they let me play a bit. I put an SoaS usb stick in an MSI and it booted on startup with no problems. It would not start on a Gateway. With no optical drive, I can't rely on a boot helper cd. There were other, more expensive machines, but time was short so that was all I tried. I want to spend as little $$$ as possible. After all, I have a perfectly wonderful MacBook and this other machine will be used mainly for my volunteer work. The Mac will run SoaS, with a boot helper disk, will burn cds and dvds, but it is much easier to create the SoaS sticks on a Windows machine. So here is the question... Which netbooks and laptops will work with SoaS on a Plug-'n-Play basis like the MSI did? Do you know of any other electronics store chains that might let me come in and test SoaS on their floor models? Do you know of any place to get a really good price on these machines? My son (a Computer Educator Extraordinare) said he likes Toshiba, Samsung, and either Acer or Asus but has not tried Sugar on any of them. He definitely advised against getting the MSI. I would love to get this before the 24th so I would have it at the InfoTech exhibit. Any and all suggestions would be welcome. Caryl P.S. There goes my tax refund! ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ SoaS mailing list s...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/soas ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Long-term development strategy (Was: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119)
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:31 AM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: On Mon, 2010-04-12 at 23:54 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: Bernie, I'm not sure the point of this point at this point in time. To copy and paste part of the response I did to the other thread on fedora-olpc for others benefit. I personally don't see the point discussing it because from where I sit I believe it will be supported well in both and continue to be so. That way people have the choice. It might well get to a stage where the newer versions of sugar won't run in RHEL/CentOS due to whatever deps at which point we get to a situation where that release becomes like 0.84 is currently and is a long term support release. I don't see why its hard to support both because its not. The package maintenance is simple and is done easily by a couple of people. There will be Fedora and it will continue to be supported in Fedora for the developers and the like that want the bleeding edge and then there will be the EL branch for those that don't like so much blood. Its called choice. There's no reason to limit it. There's not much point discussing it at the moment as RHEL-6 isn't out yet, yes its in beta but its not out. I agree on this, but it misses the point :-) Not exactly. I'm sure maintaining the Sugar 0.84 packages will be easy in RHEL6 as it is in F11. I've even back-ported Sugar 0.88 to Fedora 11 with minimal tweaks. Most end-user support issues lay within base OS components rather than the relatively small codebase of Sugar. Here are some real-world examples from this development cycle: Agreed. * GSM connectivity requires up-to-date versions of udev and modem-manager to support USB dongles commonly available in stores RH updates those sort of components regularly to ensure support. * Playing multimedia content downloaded from the Internet requires gstreamer with up-to-date codecs That is not due to up to date codecs but rather patent free codecs. Completely different issues. That is as valid with F-13 today as RHEL-5 * activities such as Record tend to uncover obscure bugs in GStreamer Nothing stopping these being fixed in RHEL/CentOS. * Browse depends on xulrunner for security and compatiblity with web standards. Surfing the web today with a version of Firefox from 3 years ago would be unthinkable RHEL updates this regularly as well and actively moves to the current version. I believe RHEL-5 has firefox 3.5 * ...not to mention NetworkManager... Mention what about it? We don't use any of the latest NM features, its stable and the maintainer actively assists and accepts patches. I would guesstimate that 80% of my time went into fixing platform bugs and just 20% on Sugar itself. In part, this is because I could offload the actual bugfixing to helpful people such as alsroot, silbe, sayamindu, mtd and others. You are not alone, you should see my BZ queue. In short RHEL-6 isn't out yet, the associated CentOS6 release is quite a while away as a result. Also ARM isn't a supported platform there. Sugar is about options and I think having both options will be of benefit to different users. I believe the leading edge Fedora will continue to be a platform for development and then others in the know or deployments themselves can make the decision as to what's best for them. In practice, choosing the distro independently of Sugar won't be feasible on the XO until: 1) we merge (or kill) all the OLPC customizations. dsd and sdz have done a lot of work in this direction, but there are still a number of rogue packages in F11-XO1. In fact alot of the differences in packages were merged back in by me in the F-10/F-11 timeframe. I'm well aware of those issues, I still track them closely. I just wish it was the same with the kernel :-) 2) we switch to a real package system for activities with full support for dependency checking and a build cluster for multiple targets. One word. PackageKit. Then its agnostic for all the distributions. After this is done, it remains to be seen if someone who is using RHEL-6 on the XO would be able to file a bug in Red Hat's Bugzilla and actually get it fixed for free. I have a feeling one would need to purchase an enterprise support contract of some kind in order to attract the necessary developer attention. You've obviously not dealt with them then on the RHEL side of things. I work for a company that had over 1200 RHEL systems. There are advantages to both approaches and I don't see that supporting both is going to be an issue to do so at least in the short term. I don't see that we need to rule out either option. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Long-term development strategy (Was: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 119)
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 11:12 PM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 13:29 -0700, Jon Nettleton wrote: Has there been any discussion on whether CentOS was an option as a base for the distro? With RHEL/CentOS 6 hopefully within sight, that would give a nice target to provide both the combination of stability and long term support. This comes up every once in a while. Frankly, I don't believe in the value of enterprise Linux distributions; I've been stuck with them in a couple of cases in the past, and they were always a support PITA even for non-development usage: nobody in the community cares to help you with debugging and back-porting recent versions of software becomes increasingly painful over time. Granted, frequently upgrading the OS also comes with its own aches too, but these are amply compensated by useful new features and better support from upstream. We've been very lucky that Dan Williams was kind enough to spend some of his time for helping us with critical bugs in NetworkManager 0.7. We've not been equally lucky with udev and GStreamer, both of which have unsolved issues in F11 for which we lack expertise. Over the last 5 years, I've become a strong advocate of the decentralized, community-driven development model. I do believe in it because I've observed it at work for 15 years. Traditionally minded managers are still looking at this enormous market value accumulated by the open model as some sort of economic anomaly; some sort of prestige trick which contradicts the rules of classic schoolbooks. Yet, an entire industry of new businesses has grown out of free software and is flourishing with it. Those who guessed its rules can play the game and win. As Martin and I discussed not long ago, our development model doesn't have to directly affect end-users. Already released free software doesn't have an expiration date. Conservative users can keep using Sugar 0.82 forever, if they really like it better than newer releases. Bugfixes and new features could be back-ported from newer releases, of course with increasing costs as time passes. We OLPC Sugar developers cannot effectively support the entire codebase of an entire OS without strong backing from the larger Fedora community and the even larger global Linux community. In the past, Sugar and OLPC development was much hurt by its disconnection from the rest of the free software ecosystem on which it was built. We need to get much closer to our upstream projects, both in time (by using current software) and in space (by not diverging our codebase). It's not just a technological issue, it's a long-term sustainability issue. Before anyone yells Yarr! Ye don't care about the children!, I'd like to point out that I've been spending several months looking at problems in the field, trying to fix some of them and, more importantly, trying to build local capacity for fixing them autonomously. In my mind, this is *the only* reasonable strategy to scale Sugar support up to the size of an entire planet. Those who think it would be impossible for people in developing nations to learn the technical skills needed for fixing their software would be shocked to see what Nepal and Paraguay have been able to achieve in just two years, with very little funding. Bernie, I'm not sure the point of this point at this point in time. To copy and paste part of the response I did to the other thread on fedora-olpc for others benefit. I personally don't see the point discussing it because from where I sit I believe it will be supported well in both and continue to be so. That way people have the choice. It might well get to a stage where the newer versions of sugar won't run in RHEL/CentOS due to whatever deps at which point we get to a situation where that release becomes like 0.84 is currently and is a long term support release. I don't see why its hard to support both because its not. The package maintenance is simple and is done easily by a couple of people. There will be Fedora and it will continue to be supported in Fedora for the developers and the like that want the bleeding edge and then there will be the EL branch for those that don't like so much blood. Its called choice. There's no reason to limit it. There's not much point discussing it at the moment as RHEL-6 isn't out yet, yes its in beta but its not out. In short RHEL-6 isn't out yet, the associated CentOS6 release is quite a while away as a result. Also ARM isn't a supported platform there. Sugar is about options and I think having both options will be of benefit to different users. I believe the leading edge Fedora will continue to be a platform for development and then others in the know or deployments themselves can make the decision as to what's best for them. Peter Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
[IAEP] olpc on southpark
Apparently one of the SouthPark creators likes the XO :-) http://mohammed.morsi.org/blog/node/312 http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2010/04/08/south-park-face-episode-tron/ Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] [ANNOUNCE] Sucrose 0.88.0 Stable Release
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: On Thu, Apr 01, 2010 at 12:35:20PM +0200, Simon Schampijer wrote: 0.88 is the latest version of Sugar, consisting of Glucose, the base system environment; and Fructose, a set of demonstration activities. This new release contains many new features, performance and code improvements, bug fixes, and translations. Congratulations to all involved! Sorry to ask - again: Where is the official documented list of contents of Glucose and Fructose for each major release of Sugar? I fail to locate it at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.88/Notes and the directly referenced http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Taxonomy is too broad. I would like to check - for each of 0.84, 0.86 and 0.88 - how close to the official compositions we are in Debian currently. Please do not post the detailed answer in an email response, but refer to the wiki page which is (supposed to) contain this info. :-) Its not changed for quite some time and can be found here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Development_Team/Release/Modules Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Fwd: Helping kids develop mobile applications?
This was posted to mobile-devel-l...@gnome.org by Stormy. I figure, while not directly gnome mobile sugar uses alot of the gnome mobile stack. Someone from San Francisco might be interested or able to do a combined sugar and gnome-mobile event. Peter -- Forwarded message -- From: Stormy Peters sto...@gnome.org Date: Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 6:34 PM Subject: Helping kids develop mobile applications? To: GNOME Mobile mobile-devel-l...@gnome.org If anyone is interested, let me know. I've been pinged by someone working with kids to develop mobile applications. He'd like to set up an event this summer in San Francisco. It will most likely happen in a school with a Linux lab. can you recommend some open-source mobile application development tools. i'm doing an innovation competiton to engender mobile apps from underserved communiites. It would be great to see GNOME participate, if/when it happens. Stormy ___ mobile-devel-list mailing list mobile-devel-l...@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-devel-list ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] The Observer article on OLPC in Rwanda
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/mar/28/rwanda-laptop-revolution A well-written article which effectively communicates OLPC's goals in the context of Rwanda's troubled recent hostory. 4-page spread in the print version. However, as is unfortunately often the case with OLPC-F sources, Sugar is given short shrift. Software is mentioned in the print version tech-specs sidebar as Linux-based, and referred to elsewhere as being too slow; and Windows will be available in future, the implication being that would correct something. The writer says: The desktop appears as an unfamiliar cartwheel of programmes represented by child-friendly icons, but there's no exploration of Activities, or what the kids are doing - clearly, the unfamiliarity barrier played a role here, and the absence of the boot logo means the system is unnamed. It would be interesting to see where they got the XO from and if the person/organisation sat down with the reporter and gave them an overview at all. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] What's going on with Sugar on a Stick?
Hi All, Sebastian first of all thanks for all your hard work up until now. And more importantly all the best for your upcoming final exams. We look forward to seeing you on the flip side! as you may have noticed, there are a couple of changes coming to Sugar on a Stick to keep the whole project sustainable. In the upcoming month, from March 28 (I'll be off starting Sunday night) to May 7, my ability to devote time to the project will cease. I have to prepare for my major A-level exams; more importantly, I have to secure a significant amount of funding in order to be able to attend college later this fall. (If you're interested in helping, see http://sdziallas.com/blog/sebastian/2010/03/sebastian-needs-100k.html for more details - any advice would be appreciated.) This does not affect the release date. Sugar on a Stick will be released as a spin through Fedora's release engineering process on May 11. We are bound to this date and will have a working release in time. The general release schedule including all relevant policies is available here [1]. Nightly builds are also available [2] (and will contain a fixed IRC activity within a couple of days, as soon as [3] has been pushed to stable). Activity authors are also advised that the final freeze date for package updates is April 27, so make sure to get fixes pushed well in advance to give package maintainers and the update system time to process. Peter Robinson has kindly agreed to act in case something is needed. Please make sure to post to the appropriate lists, though, so that everybody is in the loop. Finally, please file bugs at bugs.sugarlabs.org as explained in [4] to save all of us time. Just as a couple of points here. Please keep as much of the discussion on the soas mailing list as possible so that everyone is aware of any issues in a lead up to the release in March. I will do my best to keep up with things as we work towards the release. Please also check the bug tracker [1] to see if any issues are already known about and if you don't see it there please file a bug against SoaS so it can be tracked. I will be reviewing and updating things over the next week as we head full forward into the Fedora 13 / SoaS 3 Beta. I look forward to your assistance in making this a great release. Peter http://bugs.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] [Marketing] SoaS change of direction: heads-up on convos in other lists
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:37 AM, John Tierney jtis4...@hotmail.com wrote: Hello All, In wanting to have Teachers and Developers try Sugar are best bet may be to attack this with a two-fold approach. The idea would be to give the prospective Teacher/Deployer Two SoaS-A stable version-say Strawberry explaining exactly what Sugar Labs means by Stable. Then the Newer Developer edition Mirabelle that allows them to test and be part of the Future Research and Development portion of Sugar. This would seem to get around many of the issues and draw support for stable and cutting edge versions. Sugar Today-Sugar Tomorrow 2Pack-Add in SoaS Creation Kit with both images and Instructions and we could have something very helpful to all participants. Who's going to do all the extra work? If this route is chosen then the Developer release of Mirabelle should have many of the broken activities. These broken activities would seem to be a perfect place for many new community members to get acquainted with Sugar(Testing, Learning the Bug reporting system, Fixing activities). Activities are at the core of the Learning How To Learn portion of the Sugar Learning Platform so the appropriate level of resources making sure the communication is in place to keep them maintained should be of key focus, since it will be one the largest keys to our success in the classroom. That's what' been done for the last two releases. The fact is there's been very few people to come in and fix the broken Activities. and what's more they should be fixed before a release not after the fact. After the fact most people just complain that stuff is broken, rather than step up and fix it. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] SoaS change of direction: heads-up on convos in other lists
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@tomeuvizoso.net wrote: On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 18:10, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Sean DALY sdaly...@gmail.com wrote: The problem with this approach is that it renders SoaS ineffective for new tryers of Sugar (i.e. the overwhelming majority of teachers and parents we are trying to reach). I don't think it will be any less ineffective than having 20 activities of which half have issues, crash or just don't run. Are people saying _only 6 activities work reliably?_ My question of which is it? was assuming there are more than 6 that run well, demo well, maintained, etc. So it meant which plan is it, 6 activities that allow downloading and installing of more, or the good ones? If there are only 6 good ones... would focus on making that list longer. Did APIs break with Sugar churn, Fedora churn? Developers upload without testing? (Rethorical! Flamefest warning! Those questions are bound to be a flamefest blaming people who don't deserve to be blamed... :-( ) I think some of or all of the above are to blame. I'm still trying to get time to test. I should do so in the next couple of weeks. Record is one of the classic ones with issues. It was broken horribly for SOAS-2 and possibly even v1 but there's been no real attempt to fix it. Part of it is also that to be in Fedora the precompiled binary crud needs to be removed and in a lot of cases Activity developers don't test it with the native libraries. Also I know Write isn't currently on the list because it doesn't work properly [1] but obviously it would be a good one to have as its a great demo of the collaboration. We also want to get away from the point where a few people are running around doing 20 hour days trying to get the release out the door. I know just prior to to the last release that Sebastian was re-spinning the release into the early hours of the morning to fix Activity bugs to get the release out the door on time for marketing the day before an exam. If people aren't going to spend the time to make sure their activity works prior to a release there's only only limited time the main people have to do the testing along with all the other release process as well as getting on with the rest of their life. So I think its better we ship with less Activities better tested that cover the core functionality. FWIW, Peter's words resonate with my feelings on this issue, but maybe this change could have been communicated differently (or maybe I'm misunderstanding its ultimate cause). Agreed, it should have been bought up and discussed more openly first but ultimately there's all too few people doing the work and all too many people with an opinion. I feel those actually doing the work should have more say. How I see this issue is that the Sugar community has come to expect the SoaS maintainer(s) to test dozens of activities each release cycle and fix all the issues that may have crept in. Of course, this is an unreasonable expectation and the SoaS team has decided to reduce the scope of their work so it becomes more doable. What the SoaS team could have said instead of we'll ship half a dozen activities, is we have agreed on a criteria for activities that are to be included in a SoaS release. Such a criteria could have been something like: - the activity has been tested and works with the last Sugar release, - the community has voted this activity as sufficiently relevant to be present in SoaS, - the activity has a maintainer that will react to issues with the activity, answer questions, etc. - the activity has been packaged as a rpm and is part of Fedora. I would like to add to this that the activity developer is at least CCed on bugs in Fedora so they can more actively see the issues with their activity and react to the bugs. This may be more effective in tackling with the root cause, which I feel to be unreasonable expectation for the actual resources. The community would understand that the SoaS team currently doesn't have enough resources to include so many activities, and also would feel compelled to find more resources to maintain activities. Agreed. Peter ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
