date:20081121

Laurence S K LAU/HTSA/HSBC is out of the office.

2008-11-21 Thread Laurence Lau

I will be out of the office starting 21 Nov 2008 and will not return until
8 Dec 2008.

For urgent matter, please contact my teammate James Lai at 3663-8603, Lotus
note :-
James C P LAI/HTSA/HSBC

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AUTO: Alan Brown is out of the office on vacation. (returning 12/01/2008)

2008-11-21 Thread Alan Brown

I am out of the office until 12/01/2008.

I am enjoying my pigs and time with my family.  I will respond to your
message when I return.  If you need immediate assistance, please contact
Pete Kohler.

You will receive this message only once.



Note: This is an automated response to your message  "Re: HSM DASD Backup
volumes" sent on 11/21/08 21:42:43.

This is the only notification you will receive while this person is away.
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Re: HSM DASD Backup volumes

2008-11-21 Thread Brian Westerman

I don't think it matters much to HSM, but I have always tried to keep the
number of spill volumes very low, (if any at all).  Sorry I can't provide
better information on this, and I think I should know this one, but I can't
find anything that says it's a bad thing to do, it just feels bad to me.

Not much help I guess.

Brian Westerman
Syzygy Incorporated

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Re: Startio Question

2008-11-21 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Skip Robinson) writes:
> At some point in the late 90s, NSC got sold to CNT, its former arch rival
> whose core technology was entirely different. It looks as if CNT filed this
> patent for RDS technology that had been commercially available for 15 years
> from a different vendor. Like I said, intriguing...

NSC software design based on what i had originally done for stl (&
boulder) ... including having to get them to change from using CC to
IFCC several yrs later (as simulated error condition)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#33 Startio Question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#34 Startio Question

STK bought NSC which was then bought by SUN ... at least one of the NSC
people i worked with in 1980 ... went to STK and is now at SUN.

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Re: Startio Question

2008-11-21 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main as well.


re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008q.html#33 Startio Question

... oh ... recent post
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#50

with copy of old email
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#email800506

inviting me to nsc/hyperchannel meeting at stl that sucked me into
rewritting the whole software. at the time, nsc had already done some
software that was perported to work ... but i had to totally redo it
from scratch. then when i wasn't allowed to release it as a product
... nsc basically redid their software from scratch based on what i had
done for stl (and boulder).

for additional topic drift ... recent thread talking about ncar in the
mid-80s doing nas/san with mainframe acting as controller for
supercomputers ...  using hyperchannel as interconnect fabric (both ibm
mainframe and supercomputers accessing ibm mainframe disks):
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#51

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Re: Startio Question

2008-11-21 Thread Anne & Lynn Wheeler

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main as well.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (, IBM Mainframe Discussion List) writes:
> The way z/OS itself attaches a device to a particular channel is with the  
> Modify Subchannel (MSCH) instruction.  This instruction causes a  real link 
> to 
> be built between a device-unique control block in the Hardware  Storage Area 
> (HSA) and a channel path-unique control block in the HSA.   However, this 
> requires that both the device and channel path be  real.
>  
> Gerhard's answer reminded me of what VM does.  It controls real  devices and 
> real channel paths.  It intercepts all privileged  instructions.  When a 
> guest 
> machine is IPLed under control of VM, VM  intercepts all the instructions 
> that the guest machine is doing to initialize  its use of devices and 
> channels.  
> VM simulates the way the MSCH instruction  works.  VM also intercepts all 
> SSCHs that occur after the virtual IPL, and  knows which real device 
> corresponds 
> to the virtual (guest) machine's virtual  device.

starting with cp40 circa 1966 (custom modified 360/40 with virtual
memory, which morphed into cp67 when standard 360/67 with virtual memory
became available ... and then morphed into vm370 when virtual memory
became available on all 370s).  takes interrupts by owning the real page
zero ... and the virtual machines run in a virtual address space
... where they have a virtual machine, virtual page zero (that isn't
real page zero). it runs the virtual machine in problem mode so it
intercepted all supervisor instructions ... including start i/o (x'9c').

hasp intercepted excp entry in order to take over all requests to
("psuedo") unit record devices.

nsc/hyperchannel did something similar for MVS in the 80s ... for
"channel" connected devices ... that were actually connected to (remote)
hyperchannel device adapter. the devices appeared to be a local channel
attached controller/device. there was a hyperchannel a22x adapter
connected to real mainframe channel. at the remote end there was a51x
device adapter that simulated the real mainframe channel ... (that
controllers attached to). the intercept would make a "shadow" of the
real channel program which is downloaded to the memory of the a51x
device adapter (simulating mainframe channel).

the device i/o actually went thru the channel attached a22x ... to the
simulated channel a51x adapter to the controller (to the device). the
interrupt came back as a22x which had to be fielded and then generated a
simulated interrupt for the psuedo device (actually connected remotely
to a51x).

in the HASP scenario ... the psuedo unit record device was simulated
with disk spooled operations. in the nsc/hyperchannel scenario, the i/o
was actually executed on a a51x adapter simulating mainframe channel.

I had originally done support in 1980 for the STL lab ... as source
changes to VM370 ... as part of STL lab filling up and needing to move
300 people from the IMS group to offsite bldg. They had looked at remote
3270s but the performance & human factors was totally unacceptable.  The
alternative was to remote 300 "local" 3270s at the remote site via
nsc/hyperchannel over T1 link. while T1 is only about 150kbytes and 3274
is 600kbytes ... it was close enuf that there wasn't noticable
slow-down. In fact, because of certain other issues, overall performance
actually improved.

it was vetoed allowing me to directly release the software as a product
... so nsc had to redo it from scratch ... including a mvs flavor w/o
requiring source changes.

there was a glitch, i had chosen to simulate channel check when i got an
unrecoverable error on T1 link. This would push the recovery/retry up
into operating system error recovery. i got a call from 3090 product
manager after 3090 had been in customer shops for a year. They found
that unexpected number of channel checks had been recorded for 3090
product line ... which was traced back to a some customers running
nsc/hyperchannel remote device support (both vm & mvs). I did some
analysis and decided that IFCC (interface control check) simulation
would result in effectively the some retry sequence ... and then asked
nsc if they would change the implementation to simulate "ifcc" instead
of "cc".

another recent post discussing the implementation for STL:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#20 IBM-MAIN longevity

including screen shot of the logo screen for the ims group
3270 screen:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/vmhyper.jpg

the STL lab implementation was duplicated in boulder for the ims field
support group there ... when they were moved to bldg. on the other side
of busy road. for the boulder implementation, T1 infrared modems mounted
on the roofs of the two bldgs was used. there was concern that fog,
and/or rain/snow storms might interfer with the infrared signal. Turns
out, there were some signal degradation recorded during a white-out snow
storm when nobody was

Re: Startio Question

2008-11-21 Thread (IBM Mainframe Discussion List)

In a message dated 11/21/2008 6:26:45 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>and after looking at the S/370 books I see the SIO x'9C' instruction which
made me think about STARTIO again.

On a S/370, the machine instruction SIO (x'9C') was named Start I/O. It was
a single machine instruction what told the channel subsystem to start
processing a given channel program (series of CCWs). Ever since S/370-XA in
the
early 1980s, there is no more SIO instruction. There is now the machine
instruction SSCH, named Start Subchannel. It functions very similarly to SIO,
namely it tells the channel subsystem to start processing a given channel
program. To confuse us all even more, IBM devised a macro spelled STARTIO
(rhymes
exactly with "Start I/O", the name of the old SIO instruction). This macro
requires as input the address of an IOSB. Look in SYS1.MODGEN (or maybe
MACLIB) for IOSDIOSB or something like that for the DSECT of an IOSB. The
macro
makes sure the IOSB address is in general purpose register 1, then BALRs into
an IOS module which builds a request control block structure that points to
your IOSB, and puts this request on a queue of such I/O requests for the UCB
involved. Sooner or later another IOS module is executed which removes this
request from the queue and tries to start the I/O operation by using the SSCH
instruction.

>Now I'm reading US Patent 6,453,277 which is Virtual I/O Emulator in a
Mainframe Environment. Nowhere in this patent does it mention STARTIO. It
talks
about FLIH hooks instead.

I would speculate that the patented software simply uses the STARTIO macro
to do its I/O requests rather than a higher level access method macro, such as
EXCP. So trying to research STARTIO in how this software works is a red
herring. I have built much software that intercepts the IOS module that
STARTIO
BALRs into. This allows me to look at each channel program before it is
started with the SSCH instruction way down deep inside another IOS module.
But
if you want to simulate every possible event involving an I/O device, then
you may also need to intercept I/O interrupts. But a FLIH (First Level
Interrupt Handler) could also be intercepted by forcing a UCB's Subchannel ID
number
to be invalid. Then any I/O instruction involving that device will cause a
program interrupt. The patented software would then gain control over the I/O
instruction by having also overlaid the program interrupt new PSW's
instruction address. The location directly pointed to by any of the six new
PSWs is
called the First Level Interrupt Handler for that particular class of
interrupts. The code to process an interrupt is typically quite voluminous,
so the
FLIH typically just saves system status somewhere and then branches to the
much grander piece of code called the Second Level Interrupt Handler
(SLIH),where all the real work is done for that type of interrupt.

There are typically many ways to intercept certain events inside z/OS.
Causing a program interrupt with an invalid SCHID and front-ending the program
FLIH is just one of several ways to do it. There is much less overhead in
this
method than if you intercept all STARTIO macros and all I/O interrupts,
since only I/O events occurring on one particular device will cause the
intercept
to occur.

Bill Fairchild
Rocket Software

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Re: Startio Question

2008-11-21 Thread Gibney, Dave

  Lay back some Anton, Lindy is trying to learn. I wish I had the time
and resources he does to have such fun.
I just started following some of the Herc lists again. It's been
informative to say the least.

Dave Gibney
Information Technology Services
Washington State Univsersity


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Anton Britz
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 4:33 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Startio Question

I do not get it  ... "understand how things work" ?

What is your overall objective ? 

Are you trying to write an Operating System or are you just trying to 
ask an intelligent question on an IBM email list because the SAS 
institute does not know what to do with you.

Anton

Lindy Mayfield wrote:
> I am trying to understand how things work.
>
> I looked at a product (advertised on IBM-Main) that created a virtual
DASD which redirected the I/O to a PC file.  Cute. I asked the designer
of said software how he did the virtual part of it. Answer from the
developer: STARTIO.  
>
> After looking at some STARTIO samples I didn't find the answer.  The
past few days I was learning how boot loaders work and after looking at
the S/370 books I see the SIO x'9C' instruction which made me think
about STARTIO again.
>
> Now I'm reading US Patent 6,453,277 which is Virtual I/O Emulator in a
Mainframe Environment.  Nowhere in this patent does it mention STARTIO.
It talks about FLIH hooks instead.
>
> Anyway the patent explains things in great detail.  Thanks for the
hints.
>
>   

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Re: Startio Question

2008-11-21 Thread (IBM Mainframe Discussion List)

In a message dated 11/21/2008 6:24:02 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>Well, this was one of the first IBM related things that popped up in Google:
_http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6453277.html_
(http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6453277.html)

Be careful when reading through the text of a patent application. There are
certain words that are used inside patent applications that are there for
ancient, historical, and legal reasons and do not necessarily relate exactly
to
the real world of computers as we know them. I suspect that one reason for
the arcane terminology in patent applications is to obfuscate the
explanation. "Plurality" is a good example of such obfuscatory and archaic
words.

>"A method and system of emulating an input/output (I/O) device in a
mainframe environment. A started task executing as part of the operating system

gains control of I/O instructions directed to virtual devices by insuring that
such I/O instructions cause interrupts.

The fact that the started task gains control of I/O instructions directed to
a particular device is what makes that device virtual. If the started task
weren't doing this, then the device would have to be real. The started task
could also intercept instructions going to a real device and do things that
would not affect the reality of the device; e.g., scan the channel program
looking for character string XYZ being transferred to or from the device, and,
if found, signal the operator, cancel the application, etc.

One way for a started task to insure that such I/O instructions cause
interrupts is to do what VM does; namely, force all software running on that
processor to be in problem state. Then any privileged instructions will cause
interrupts which this started task could then intercept. If the privileged
instruction is not one of the 15 or so that operate on I/O hardware, then the
started task does nothing special with the intercepted instruction (although it

must allow the instruction to execute, or else perfectly simulate what it
does). If the intercepted instruction is one of the I/O instructions, then
the
started task would presumably look at the device involved. If the device is
one that the started task wants to treat as virtual, then the STC must do
something special. Otherwise it allows the I/O instruction to execute
normally
(either allow it to execute or else perfectly simulate it).

After having read part of the patent application you mentioned, I see a much
simpler way to cause an interrupt when an SSCH or TSCH is executed against
one particular device, which is to change what's in the UCB field containing
the subchannel number in such a way that the subchannel number is invalid, and
then a program interrupt will occur when any I/O instruction (SSCH, TSCH,
MSCH, etc.) which has to specify a subchannel number as one of its operands is

executed. The STC would have to replace the program interrupt new PSW's
instruction address, so that all program interrupts go into the STC, which then

examines the type of program interrupt, particular machine instruction
involved, etc.

According to what this patent says, its software is not intercepting channel
commands (CCWs), but is intercepting machine instructions (SSCH, e.g.) that
are being executed against a particular device which the software wants to
treat as virtual.

>The started task then hooks the branch point for such interrupts.

This means it replaces the instruction address part of the I/O interrupt new
PSW so that an I/O interrupt will take you immediately into the STC rather
than into IOS. Then the STC has to make sure that no matter what the STC
does, the status of the system will be restored as it was when the I/O
interrupt
occurred, and then it when the STC ends all its processing it must branch to
the location that was originally in the I/O interrupt new PSW.

>Upon obtaining control, the started task causes the I/O source to believe a
transaction with a predefined data space in a general storage area on board
the mainframe is actually a transaction with a physical device."

Upon obtaining control, an STC can do whatever it likes with the "device"
against which the intercepted instructions were being executed.

>Which led to the actual patent here:
_http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6453277/fulltext.html_
(http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6453277/fulltext.html)
>How this can be a patent I don't understand. I thought patents were for
inventions, and copyrights were for software.

Bill Fairchild
Rocket Software
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Re: Startio Question

2008-11-21 Thread Skip Robinson

I find this patent intriguing. The sources cited at the very bottom of the
URL all point to CNT, the major league channel extender company. We ran our
initial XRC mirroring for several years over CNT, but this patent does not
describe what I've always understood to be 'classic CNT' technology. What
it does describe to a T is NSC/RDS, another channel extender product we
also ran years well before XRC to support remote tape, CTC, 3270, and a
handful of DASD volumes.

When the RDS task started up, it hooked itself into the first lever
interrupt handler and looked at every single I/O. If (and only if) the I/O
was directed to an RDS-defined device, the code would re-package the I/O
and ship it to an NSC network box, which transmitted the package to a
remote site where it was converted back into mainframe I/O and sent to the
actual target physical device. When the RDS task was shut down, it removed
its hook and went away. All in all, the technology worked amazingly well
considering what a bizarre notion it was built on.

At some point in the late 90s, NSC got sold to CNT, its former arch rival
whose core technology was entirely different. It looks as if CNT filed this
patent for RDS technology that had been commercially available for 15 years
from a different vendor. Like I said, intriguing...

A final note of advice: as already suggested by others, OP really doesn't
want to hurtle down this development path. Whatever the goal, there's got
to be an easier way to do it.

.
.
JO.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
626-302-7535 Office
323-715-0595 Mobile
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


   
 Lindy Mayfield
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 SF.SAS.COM>To 
 Sent by: IBM  IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
 Mainframe  cc 
 Discussion List   
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject 
 .edu> Re: Startio Question
   
   
 11/21/2008 04:01  
 PM
   
   
 Please respond to 
   IBM Mainframe   
  Discussion List  
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   .edu>   
   
   




Well, this was one of the first IBM related things that popped up in
Google:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6453277.html

"A method and system of emulating an input/output (I/O) device in a
mainframe environment. A started task executing as part of the operating
system gains control of I/O instructions directed to virtual devices by
insuring that such I/O instructions cause interrupts. The started task then
hooks the branch point for such interrupts. Upon obtaining control, the
started task causes the I/O source to believe a transaction with a
predefined data space in a general storage area on board the mainframe is
actually a transaction with a physical device."

Which led to the actual patent here:
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6453277/fulltext.html

How this can be a patent I don't understand.  I thought patents were for
inventions, and copyrights were for software.

Anyway, it's a good start. Thanks GP.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Gerhard Postpischil
Sent: 22. marraskuuta 2008 1:40
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Startio Question


What you want is a software function, so you won't find it in
POps or other hardware manuals. You need to build a driver and
UCB for a virtual device. IBM has a manual that discusses this,
but I last saw it about twelve years ago. Try searching for
titles containing Device, UCB, and similar.


Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, VT

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Re: Startio Question

2008-11-21 Thread (IBM Mainframe Discussion List)

In a message dated 11/21/2008 5:40:02 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>How would one via z/OS software make z/OS think that there is an I/O device
attached to a particular channel?

The way z/OS itself attaches a device to a particular channel is with the
Modify Subchannel (MSCH) instruction. This instruction causes a real link to
be built between a device-unique control block in the Hardware Storage Area
(HSA) and a channel path-unique control block in the HSA. However, this
requires that both the device and channel path be real.

Gerhard's answer reminded me of what VM does. It controls real devices and
real channel paths. It intercepts all privileged instructions. When a guest
machine is IPLed under control of VM, VM intercepts all the instructions
that the guest machine is doing to initialize its use of devices and channels.

VM simulates the way the MSCH instruction works. VM also intercepts all
SSCHs that occur after the virtual IPL, and knows which real device
corresponds
to the virtual (guest) machine's virtual device.

>In other words, I run some software that makes z/OS think it is a device
and then intercept all channel commands to that device.

You cannot "intercept" channel commands (assuming you meant channel command
words, or CCWs). CCWs are processed partly by the channel subsystem, partly
by the control unit, and do not involve machine instructions (like LA, MVC,
etc.). In fact, a channel program is called a channel program because it
consists of a series of I/O device instructions (really I/O control unit
instructions) that are being executed in series with tests and branch on
condition
kinds of instructions at various points in the channel program, which runs
separately from and simultaneously with software programs. "Software"
consists
of a series of machine instructions that are all documented in the Principles
of Operation. The only way I can see to do what you say here is to build
software that intercepts all machine instructions that could possibly operate
on
a device (SSCH, HSCH, CSCH, MSCH, etc.) or a channel path, then scan the
channel program (if the instruction involves a channel program), and simulate
the action of the instruction, channel subsystem, channel path, controller,
and
device. This is quite difficult. One example of commercially available
software that does this is Virtual Tape (sorry, I don't know the exact product
name or vendor anymore; it was developed originally in an EMC development lab
in Tel Aviv). It intercepts all I/O requests involving tape devices, treats
the tape device involved as virtual, scans the channel programs, simulates
what they would do with a real tape by using a real DASD instead to write the
data to (if a tape write CCW is being simulated) or from which to read the
data (if simulating a tape read CCW), then manipulates the application's
control
blocks to make the application think that the I/O worked just as it would
have with a real tape controller and device.

>So far everything I see in the z Arch Pop tells me how to communicate to a
device, but not how to be a device. Would someone please give a hint where
to look?

I am not sure I understood your question, so I doubt that the above answers
your question. And doing what I described is not easy.

Bill Fairchild
Rocket Software

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Re: Startio Question

2008-11-21 Thread Anton Britz


I do not get it  ... "understand how things work" ?

What is your overall objective ? 

Are you trying to write an Operating System or are you just trying to 
ask an intelligent question on an IBM email list because the SAS 
institute does not know what to do with you.


Anton

Lindy Mayfield wrote:

I am trying to understand how things work.

I looked at a product (advertised on IBM-Main) that created a virtual DASD which redirected the I/O to a PC file.  Cute. I asked the designer of said software how he did the virtual part of it. Answer from the developer: STARTIO.  


After looking at some STARTIO samples I didn't find the answer.  The past few 
days I was learning how boot loaders work and after looking at the S/370 books 
I see the SIO x'9C' instruction which made me think about STARTIO again.

Now I'm reading US Patent 6,453,277 which is Virtual I/O Emulator in a 
Mainframe Environment.  Nowhere in this patent does it mention STARTIO.  It 
talks about FLIH hooks instead.

Anyway the patent explains things in great detail.  Thanks for the hints.

  


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Re: Startio Question

2008-11-21 Thread Lindy Mayfield

I am trying to understand how things work.

I looked at a product (advertised on IBM-Main) that created a virtual DASD 
which redirected the I/O to a PC file.  Cute. I asked the designer of said 
software how he did the virtual part of it. Answer from the developer: STARTIO. 
 

After looking at some STARTIO samples I didn't find the answer.  The past few 
days I was learning how boot loaders work and after looking at the S/370 books 
I see the SIO x'9C' instruction which made me think about STARTIO again.

Now I'm reading US Patent 6,453,277 which is Virtual I/O Emulator in a 
Mainframe Environment.  Nowhere in this patent does it mention STARTIO.  It 
talks about FLIH hooks instead.

Anyway the patent explains things in great detail.  Thanks for the hints.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
Anton Britz
Sent: 22. marraskuuta 2008 1:57
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Startio Question

Lindy,

What are you trying to do ?

The BIG picture... not the story of trying to "be a Virtual Device" in zOS 
because there is other ways of doing the same thing, that will cost you much 
less effort ex. Creating your own Sub-system , with all open/clean IBM api's 
and examples on the Share tape.

Doing it on a STARTIO level, is going way, way to deep for the type of 
questions you where asking earlier.

Summary: Always try and explain the BIG picture before asking 6000 little 
questions, I think.. and then you will get better answer and save a lot 
of "noise" on this list.

Anton

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Re: Startio Question

2008-11-21 Thread Ted MacNEIL

>How this can be a patent I don't understand.  >I thought patents were for 
>inventions, and copyrights were for software. 

Software patents do exist.
Some are considered inventions.
As a matter oif fact, parts of the open sores community is trying to get 
software patents disallowed.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: Startio Question

2008-11-21 Thread Lindy Mayfield

Well, this was one of the first IBM related things that popped up in Google:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6453277.html

"A method and system of emulating an input/output (I/O) device in a mainframe 
environment. A started task executing as part of the operating system gains 
control of I/O instructions directed to virtual devices by insuring that such 
I/O instructions cause interrupts. The started task then hooks the branch point 
for such interrupts. Upon obtaining control, the started task causes the I/O 
source to believe a transaction with a predefined data space in a general 
storage area on board the mainframe is actually a transaction with a physical 
device."

Which led to the actual patent here:
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6453277/fulltext.html

How this can be a patent I don't understand.  I thought patents were for 
inventions, and copyrights were for software. 

Anyway, it's a good start. Thanks GP.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
Gerhard Postpischil
Sent: 22. marraskuuta 2008 1:40
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Startio Question


What you want is a software function, so you won't find it in 
POps or other hardware manuals. You need to build a driver and 
UCB for a virtual device. IBM has a manual that discusses this, 
but I last saw it about twelve years ago. Try searching for 
titles containing Device, UCB, and similar.


Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, VT

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Re: Startio Question

2008-11-21 Thread Anton Britz

Lindy,

What are you trying to do ?

The BIG picture... not the story of trying to "be a Virtual Device" in zOS 
because there is other ways of doing the same thing, that will cost you much 
less effort ex. Creating your own Sub-system , with all open/clean IBM api's 
and examples on the Share tape.

Doing it on a STARTIO level, is going way, way to deep for the type of 
questions you where asking earlier.

Summary: Always try and explain the BIG picture before asking 6000 little 
questions, I think.. and then you will get better answer and save a lot 
of "noise" on this list.

Anton

On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:08:33 +0100, Lindy Mayfield 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Looking at startio makes more sense now after I've gotten hold an S/370 
Princ. Op book.  If I understand, one uses startio for low level communications 
with I/O devices.  And if I want to go lower I can use instructions like SSCH.  
(Thanks again Bill F. for the code)
>
>But there is one part I am not understanding that I would like help with.  How 
would one via z/OS software make z/OS think that there is an I/O device 
attached to a particular channel?  In other words, I run some software that 
makes z/OS think it is a device and then intercept all channel commands to 
that device.  So far everything I see in the z Arch Pop tells me how to 
communicate to a device, but not how to be a device.  Would someone please 
give a hint where to look?
>
>Thanks,
>Lindy
>
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Re: Startio Question

2008-11-21 Thread Richard Peurifoy


Lindy Mayfield wrote:

Looking at startio makes more sense now after I've gotten hold an S/370 Princ. 
Op book.  If I understand, one uses startio for low level communications with 
I/O devices.  And if I want to go lower I can use instructions like SSCH.  
(Thanks again Bill F. for the code)

But there is one part I am not understanding that I would like help with.  How 
would one via z/OS software make z/OS think that there is an I/O device 
attached to a particular channel?  In other words, I run some software that 
makes z/OS think it is a device and then intercept all channel commands to that 
device.  So far everything I see in the z Arch Pop tells me how to communicate 
to a device, but not how to be a device.  Would someone please give a hint 
where to look?


The old HASP code that ran on OS/360 did something like this with
pseudo readers and printers. The devices were defined thru "SYSGEN",
(you would use HCD now) and HASP handled the simulation. The I/O
system was much simpler then, and I don' know how well it will
translate to modern systems, but it may help you understand what
needs to be done.

--
Richard

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Re: The Paddles (was RE: Interesting CS Course Syllabus)

2008-11-21 Thread Linda Mooney

At Share in Austin, Dr. Rannie will present session 3109, A SHARE'd History of 
SHARE: The Journey, the People and the Paddles.  I attended his session in San 
Jose.  It was great!  Don't miss it.

Michael Stack, also formerly with NIU, will be presenting his Assembler Boot 
Camp again at Austin.  It is a series of 5 sessions.  Most excellent.  I have 
also attend the boot camp and highly recommend it.

The session schedule for Austin has been posted at 
http://ew.share.org/displaymod/SingleConf.cfm?conference_id=20 or you can 
access it through the SHARE homepage at www.share.org   For those of you who 
are new to mainframes, or who have moved from one area of mainframe work to 
another (maybe switched from network to z/OS) check out zNextGen at 
http://www.share.org/Volunteers/ProgramsandProjects/MVSProgram/zNextGenProject/tabid/307/Default.aspx
 

Linda Mooney

-- Original message -- 
From: Ken Porowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Session abstract from SHARE might give you a glimpse of what the project 
> was about. 
> 
> In this session, the speaker will moderate as various founders of the 
> OS/MVTMFT 
> Project, which came into being at the Denver SHARE in Spring of 1973, 
> and other mature individuals tell stories of the project, the paddle, 
> the good old 
> days, and the way it was. When IBM was going to drop support for the 
> OS/360 
> systems, and those who had them were going to have to paddle their own 
> canoe, 
> SHARE members banded together and formed the OS/MVT-MFT Project. 
> Learn how SHARE-ing can accomplish great things! Come and celebrate the 
> 35th anniversary of the Paddle Project, the forefather of the MVS SCP 
> Project. 
> Goodies will be provided. This session was last given five years ago. 
> 
> -- 
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Re: Startio Question

2008-11-21 Thread Gerhard Postpischil


Lindy Mayfield wrote:

like help with.  How would one via z/OS software make z/OS
think that there is an I/O device attached to a particular
channel?  In other words, I run some software that makes z/OS
think it is a device and then intercept all channel commands
to that device.  So far everything I see in the z Arch Pop
tells me how to communicate to a device, but not how to be a
device.  Would someone please give a hint where to look?


What you want is a software function, so you won't find it in 
POps or other hardware manuals. You need to build a driver and 
UCB for a virtual device. IBM has a manual that discusses this, 
but I last saw it about twelve years ago. Try searching for 
titles containing Device, UCB, and similar.



Gerhard Postpischil
Bradford, VT

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Startio Question

2008-11-21 Thread Lindy Mayfield

Looking at startio makes more sense now after I've gotten hold an S/370 Princ. 
Op book.  If I understand, one uses startio for low level communications with 
I/O devices.  And if I want to go lower I can use instructions like SSCH.  
(Thanks again Bill F. for the code)

But there is one part I am not understanding that I would like help with.  How 
would one via z/OS software make z/OS think that there is an I/O device 
attached to a particular channel?  In other words, I run some software that 
makes z/OS think it is a device and then intercept all channel commands to that 
device.  So far everything I see in the z Arch Pop tells me how to communicate 
to a device, but not how to be a device.  Would someone please give a hint 
where to look?

Thanks,
Lindy

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