Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
--- On Fri, 6/26/09, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: From: Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com Subject: Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 10:43 AM Ed Gould wrote: I had a job interview about 20 years ago at a place in California that handled top secret (and above data) all the time. I asked how they contacted IBM for support and how they handled dumps problems etc...The answer I got back was that they didn't contact IBM and you were expected to figure out the issue. I was at that time of the interview pretty sure I was not interested in it so I asked but without source how can you expect to figure out where the problem was and even if you could how could you fix it without telling IBM how to fix it. The answer was surprising even to me. They said you don't. I shook my head and walked out and drove back to the airport and took the plane back and was so disgusted with myself for wasting my time on an interview that if I had been given an outline of all the restrictions that would be put on the job I would not have wasted my time. I have received dumps from top secret government organizations (both domestic and foreign) that have been programmatically redacted. The dumps were pre-formatted by the customer (the output of various IPCS commands against the original dump file). All names of things (userid, system, sysplex, NJE node, JES member, etc.) in the dump were replaced with the characters in both hex and EBCDIC portions of each line. Amazingly, I have been able to solve problems using such dumps! Ed: Interesting thanks for the information. I am wondering how you handle stand alone dumps? I am not sure how anyone (thing?) could handle something like that or in a few cases GTF Trace . Both items would require a LOT of human checks, of course there is always the issue of a vendor needing to see X and X is a top secret information. The vendor can just say well I cannot help the user as he refused (not a good word) to give ne the information I need to resolve the issue. I am suggesting that certain aspects of a dump or (anything else for that matter) would be indecipherable to most people (even a cryptologist ) but to a person with a background in IBM dumps would be pretty much understandable. Can you see a program written to process standalone dumps tapes that could make any sort of close guess to what fields are let alone bits in control blocks? I am pretty sure I cannot. Any program written probably would be on IBM's list of must get products. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
Ed Gould wrote: --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: I have received dumps from top secret government organizations (both domestic and foreign) that have been programmatically redacted. The dumps were pre-formatted by the customer (the output of various IPCS commands against the original dump file). All names of things (userid, system, sysplex, NJE node, JES member, etc.) in the dump were replaced with the characters in both hex and EBCDIC portions of each line. Amazingly, I have been able to solve problems using such dumps! Ed: Interesting thanks for the information. I am wondering how you handle stand alone dumps? As I said, the customer issues the IPCS command and then sends the output through some sort of filtering program that redacts the information. (I believe there is also a manual review to be sure the program didn't miss anything.) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
Ted, Mate, we're on the same page on that one. I'm wondering if they'll provide support for US residents that are not citizens... I better be ready with my Social Security Number. Ron -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 12:42 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens Ya know! Not everybody on this is a USA Citizen. Nor, do we live in the USA. I'm still trying to see where this helps me. (Flame me if you wish). But, I'd prefer to see this topic dropped. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
Ed Gould wrote: I had a job interview about 20 years ago at a place in California that handled top secret (and above data) all the time. I asked how they contacted IBM for support and how they handled dumps problems etc...The answer I got back was that they didn't contact IBM and you were expected to figure out the issue. I was at that time of the interview pretty sure I was not interested in it so I asked but without source how can you expect to figure out where the problem was and even if you could how could you fix it without telling IBM how to fix it. The answer was surprising even to me. They said you don't. I shook my head and walked out and drove back to the airport and took the plane back and was so disgusted with myself for wasting my time on an interview that if I had been given an outline of all the restrictions that would be put on the job I would not have wasted my time. I have received dumps from top secret government organizations (both domestic and foreign) that have been programmatically redacted. The dumps were pre-formatted by the customer (the output of various IPCS commands against the original dump file). All names of things (userid, system, sysplex, NJE node, JES member, etc.) in the dump were replaced with the characters in both hex and EBCDIC portions of each line. Amazingly, I have been able to solve problems using such dumps! -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
In the days when paper dumps where still common, I remember getting a dump from a customer that looked liked a box of Swiss cheese. Before sending us the dump, they went through it page by page and would cut out sections that contained data they felt was sensitive. === Wayne Driscoll OMEGAMON DB2 L3 Support/Development wdrisco(AT)us.ibm.com === Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 06/26/2009 10:43 AM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu To IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu cc Subject Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens Ed Gould wrote: I had a job interview about 20 years ago at a place in California that handled top secret (and above data) all the time. I asked how they contacted IBM for support and how they handled dumps problems etc...The answer I got back was that they didn't contact IBM and you were expected to figure out the issue. I was at that time of the interview pretty sure I was not interested in it so I asked but without source how can you expect to figure out where the problem was and even if you could how could you fix it without telling IBM how to fix it. The answer was surprising even to me. They said you don't. I shook my head and walked out and drove back to the airport and took the plane back and was so disgusted with myself for wasting my time on an interview that if I had been given an outline of all the restrictions that would be put on the job I would not have wasted my time. I have received dumps from top secret government organizations (both domestic and foreign) that have been programmatically redacted. The dumps were pre-formatted by the customer (the output of various IPCS commands against the original dump file). All names of things (userid, system, sysplex, NJE node, JES member, etc.) in the dump were replaced with the characters in both hex and EBCDIC portions of each line. Amazingly, I have been able to solve problems using such dumps! -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
--- On Thu, 6/18/09, Rick Fochtman rfocht...@ync.net wrote: From: Rick Fochtman rfocht...@ync.net Subject: Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 12:41 PM snip--- Edward Jaffe wrote: Ed Finnell wrote: We had a CE working 9370 support out of White Plains and he got sent on a sevcrit to Montreal. Got stopped at customs and they confiscated his 'tool kit' not made in Canada. He went by the hardware store on the way in and bought a new one. Charged the customer retail rates with the clock running. Nobody said a peep... I went to Edmonton, Alberta in the early 1990s to install some software at a customer site. Canadian customs found my tape (this was before CDs downloads), took me into a back room, and grilled me for at least an hour about what I was carrying, why I was there, who I was meeting, etc. They rifled through all of my bags and inspected *everything* right down to my underwear. They had one of those little goose-neck desk lamps pointed at me that were so cliche for interrogations on comedy shows. It was all I could do to keep a straight face. I think they were upset that I wasn't taking them seriously enough... unsnip-- Like I keep saying: there's a fine line between security and paranoia; which side are we on? -- Rick Rick: I had a job interview about 20 years ago at a place in California that handled top secret (and above data) all the time. I asked how they contacted IBM for support and how they handled dumps problems etc...The answer I got back was that they didn't contact IBM and you were expected to figure out the issue. I was at that time of the interview pretty sure I was not interested in it so I asked but without source how can you expect to figure out where the problem was and even if you could how could you fix it without telling IBM how to fix it. The answer was surprising even to me. They said you don't. I shook my head and walked out and drove back to the airport and took the plane back and was so disgusted with myself for wasting my time on an interview that if I had been given an outline of all the restrictions that would be put on the job I would not have wasted my time. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Where should processing be done was Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
As a important note. While we are talking about data from going to one country to another for processing/storing etc. One also needs to remember when the data is used develop/test/qa 'outside' the original jurisdiction, data masking consideration is even more important. According to some laws as well as regulations/agreements between various countries, organizations and generally speaking as well, the data collected in one country and transferred to another, 'should' still be handled as it would still be in the original jurisdiction control. (as long as the 'target' jurisdiction laws are also adhered to) (not a lawyer, but taken enough courses to be dangerous) Le contenu de ce courriel s'adresse au destinataire seulement. Il contient de l'information pouvant etre confidentielle. Vous ne devez ni le copier ni l'utiliser ni le divulguer a qui que ce soit a moins que vous soyez le destinataire ou une personne designee autorisee. Si vous le receviez par erreur, veuillez nous aviser immediatement et le detruire. The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Where should processing be done was Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
On 21 Jun 2009 15:05:18 -0700, eamacn...@yahoo.ca (Ted MacNEIL) wrote: Maybe not yet, but there is a bill in front of Federal parliament that, if passed, won't even require a warrant to get the information to CSIS). We'll be as safe and secure and free the other states that have state control over information. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Where should processing be done was Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
On Monday 22 June 2009, Howard Brazee wrote: On 21 Jun 2009 15:05:18 -0700, eamacn...@yahoo.ca (Ted MacNEIL) wrote: Maybe not yet, but there is a bill in front of Federal parliament that, if passed, won't even require a warrant to get the information to CSIS). We'll be as safe and secure and free the other states that have state control over information. Scary thought. - Bob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Where should processing be done was Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
One example was Lakehead University in Thunder Bay, Ontario, who in a cost-savings measures, decided to take advantage of GoogleApps. This caused a strike by academic professionals when they realized their emails, documents, etc. would be entirely open to Homeland Security. (AFAIK, CSIS is not so empowered; not so sure about the CSE (Communications Security Establishment Canada). Maybe not yet, but there is a bill in front of Federal parliament that, if passed, won't even require a warrant to get the information to CSIS). - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
On 17 Jun 2009 12:35:48 -0700, patrick.oke...@wamu.net (Patrick O'Keefe) wrote: If those are the US Government's rules then IBM would be foolish not to set up such accounts, but the concept behind the rule makes no sense. It would make more sense (but would be impossible to implement) a rule that requires competency rather than US citizenship. Politics isn't concerned with competency, it is concerned with getting elected. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
On 18 Jun 2009 10:43:47 -0700, rfocht...@ync.net (Rick Fochtman) wrote: Like I keep saying: there's a fine line between security and paranoia; which side are we on? I don't think the line is fine at all. It is vague and nebulous. There's a fine line between standing next to a lake, and fishing. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
now I have a story I can tell about the er... um... *thoroughness* of the
Canadian border authorities ...
Unfortunately, even before the heightened awareness (post-9/11), Canadian
Customs Agents had the reputation of being the rudest in the world.
Odd, considering that, in general, Canadians are considered some of the
politest people in the world (with some exceptions -- (8-{]}).
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!
--
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Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
snip--- Edward Jaffe wrote: Ed Finnell wrote: We had a CE working 9370 support out of White Plains and he got sent on a sevcrit to Montreal. Got stopped at customs and they confiscated his 'tool kit' not made in Canada. He went by the hardware store on the way in and bought a new one. Charged the customer retail rates with the clock running. Nobody said a peep... I went to Edmonton, Alberta in the early 1990s to install some software at a customer site. Canadian customs found my tape (this was before CDs downloads), took me into a back room, and grilled me for at least an hour about what I was carrying, why I was there, who I was meeting, etc. They rifled through all of my bags and inspected *everything* right down to my underwear. They had one of those little goose-neck desk lamps pointed at me that were so cliche for interrogations on comedy shows. It was all I could do to keep a straight face. I think they were upset that I wasn't taking them seriously enough... unsnip-- Like I keep saying: there's a fine line between security and paranoia; which side are we on? -- Rick -- Remember that if you’re not the lead dog, the view never changes. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
Rick Fochtman wrote: I went to Edmonton, Alberta in the early 1990s to install some software at a customer site. Canadian customs found my tape (this was before CDs downloads), took me into a back room, and grilled me for at least an hour about what I was carrying, why I was there, who I was meeting, etc. They rifled through all of my bags and inspected *everything* right down to my underwear. They had one of those little goose-neck desk lamps pointed at me that were so cliche for interrogations on comedy shows. It was all I could do to keep a straight face. I think they were upset that I wasn't taking them seriously enough... unsnip-- Like I keep saying: there's a fine line between security and paranoia; which side are we on? Stuff like that doesn't bother me. The Canadians, like the USA and other sovereign countries, have every right to ensure to their satisfaction that people coming in are who they say they are and aren't doing or transporting anything illegal. It wasn't like they jailed me. They just asked some questions (seemed like the same ones over and over) and searched through my stuff for a while. I don't have anything to hide. I took it all in-stride and now I have a story I can tell about the er... um... *thoroughness* of the Canadian border authorities ... -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
Maybe it was the Osama Ben Laden tee shirt that did it
Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca
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Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
now I have a story I can tell about the er... um... *thoroughness* of the
Canadian border authorities ...
Unfortunately, even before the heightened awareness (post-9/11), Canadian
Customs Agents had the reputation of being the rudest in the world.
Odd, considering that, in general, Canadians are considered some of the
politest people in the world (with some exceptions -- (8-{]}).
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!
--
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send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
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Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
Find the discussion and the offering a little bit strange from a European / German view. First of all, most companies and organizations here are worried to give data away to the U.S. because of worse data protection. Maybe you have heard of SWIFT data grabbing of U.S. governmental organizations. So do you really want to protect your data in the States? Just my personal point of view. Dirk On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 03:08, Dave Kopischke dgkopisc...@oppenheimerfunds.com wrote: On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:49:56 -0400, Harry Wahl wrote: I think this is being misconstrued. And misconstrued in making this a border bash. The original move was to eliminate jobs in one country in favor of labor prices in another (according to the stories I read). Now that the direction is reversed, it's bad ??? Not worthy of discussion ??? Regardless of the direction, I think it's an interesting situation. I doubt we'll ever know the real reasoning behind it. Maybe stimulus money grabbing ??? Maybe protecting corporate data within the laws of the company's resident country ??? Maybe marketing ??? Valid cases can probably be made for each of these and more. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
Though I'm as ready as the next guy to assign deviousness to IBM, in this case it isn't involving stimulus money. It's simply a way for US Govt accounts to open problems and speak to a US citizen. It's surprising how much is not in the US, and right now if a Govt customer opens a PMR, and happens to get a non-US citizen, they have to close the pmr. MA On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Dave Kopischke dgkopisc...@oppenheimerfunds.com wrote: On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:49:56 -0400, Harry Wahl wrote: I think this is being misconstrued. And misconstrued in making this a border bash. The original move was to eliminate jobs in one country in favor of labor prices in another (according to the stories I read). Now that the direction is reversed, it's bad ??? Not worthy of discussion ??? Regardless of the direction, I think it's an interesting situation. I doubt we'll ever know the real reasoning behind it. Maybe stimulus money grabbing ??? Maybe protecting corporate data within the laws of the company's resident country ??? Maybe marketing ??? Valid cases can probably be made for each of these and more. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Where should processing be done was Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
On 16 Jun 2009 18:41:32 -0700, rfocht...@ync.net (Rick Fochtman) wrote: There's a very fine line between security and paranoia; when do we decide that it's been crossed? The enemy's definition is when we do what they want. (bin Laden had a hope that we would attack Saudi Arabia, but was delighted nevertheless that we attacked Iran). But in data processing, we have different concerns. The enemy is often criminals who are wanting to find flaws in our privacy and security processes.Virus checkers on PCs, policies to not download sensitive data to PCs, and fire walls are no longer paranoia. Complicated security procedures making sure that people can't screen scrape data that they are not authorized for are no longer paranoia. Technology has made it so that even mainframes aren't immune to the need for safe security practices. And in the non-mainframe shops, the percentage of people working on infrastructure and security is way up over what we have been used to. A lot fewer people are available for productive programming for the users.That is necessary because of vulnerabilities that professional thieves exploit. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:59:41 -0400, Mary Anne Matyaz maryanne4...@gmail.com wrote: ...It's simply a way for US Govt accounts to open problems and speak to a US citizen. It's surprising how much is not in the US, and right now if a Govt customer opens a PMR, and happens to get a non-US citizen, they have to close the pmr. ... ... because we just can't trust those Canadians, etc. not to take advantage of a US Government's 0C4. If those are the US Government's rules then IBM would be foolish not to set up such accounts, but the concept behind the rule makes no sense. It would make more sense (but would be impossible to implement) a rule that requires competency rather than US citizenship. Pat O'Keefe -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
Govt customer opens a PMR, and happens to get a non-US citizen, they have to close the pmr. That makes absolutely no sense! Some of the best support people in IBM work in the Toronto ISC. I used to work for a company based in California and the service provider was in Dallas. We had a z/OS problem that got escalated to a Toronto support person. She solved the problem; she was NOT a US citizen. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Patrick O'Keefe On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:59:41 -0400, Mary Anne Matyaz maryanne4...@gmail.com wrote: ...It's simply a way for US Govt accounts to open problems and speak to a US citizen. It's surprising how much is not in the US, and right now if a Govt customer opens a PMR, and happens to get a non-US citizen, they have to close the pmr. ... ... because we just can't trust those Canadians, etc. not to take advantage of a US Government's 0C4. If those are the US Government's rules then IBM would be foolish not to set up such accounts, but the concept behind the rule makes no sense. It would make more sense (but would be impossible to implement) a rule that requires competency rather than US citizenship. You seem to forget that government and logic are mutually exclusive concepts. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
We don't make the rules. We don't have to like the rules. We don't have to understand the why behind the rules. We do have to live with the rules. Several years ago we contracted for an in-house class with a company other than IBM. The instructor was from Canada and did not have a work permit. It took half a day just to get him in the facility. When we did, we had to make sure everyone was aware of the presence of a foreign national. I felt like walking ahead, ringing a bell, crying Unclean - foreign national - unclean We have code that we cannot discuss with some non-citizens due to export restrictions. I think this is a great idea and hope that IBM establishes similar centers to assist other nationalities with the same restriction. Dennis Roach GHG Corporation Lockheed Martin Mission Services Flight Design and Operations Contract NASA/JSC Address: 2100 Space Park Drive LM-15-4BH Houston, Texas 77058 Mail: P.O. Box 58487 Mail Code H4C Houston, Texas 77258 Phone: Voice: (281)336-5027 Cell: (713)591-1059 Fax:(281)336-5410 E-Mail: dennis.ro...@lmco.com All opinions expressed by me are mine and may not agree with my employer or any person, company, or thing, living or dead, on or near this or any other planet, moon, asteroid, or other spatial object, natural or manufactured, since the beginning of time. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:41 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens Govt customer opens a PMR, and happens to get a non-US citizen, they have to close the pmr. That makes absolutely no sense! Some of the best support people in IBM work in the Toronto ISC. I used to work for a company based in California and the service provider was in Dallas. We had a z/OS problem that got escalated to a Toronto support person. She solved the problem; she was NOT a US citizen. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
In a message dated 6/17/2009 3:11:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dennis.ro...@lmco.com writes: I think this is a great idea and hope that IBM establishes similar centers to assist other nationalities with the same restriction. We had a CE working 9370 support out of White Plains and he got sent on a sevcrit to Montreal. Got stopped at customs and they confiscated his 'tool kit' not made in Canada. He went by the hardware store on the way in and bought a new one. Charged the customer retail rates with the clock running. Nobody said a peep... **Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal Everyday! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222865043x1201494942/aol?redir=http:%2F%2F ad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215692145%3B38015538%3Bh) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
We had a CE working 9370 support out of White Plains and he got sent on a sevcrit to Montreal. Got stopped at customs and they confiscated his 'tool kit' not made in Canada. Now, that definitely doesn't make sense. Who really cares where things you are bringing into a country comes from? I've only ever been stopped from 'importing' proscribed items. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
Ed Finnell wrote: We had a CE working 9370 support out of White Plains and he got sent on a sevcrit to Montreal. Got stopped at customs and they confiscated his 'tool kit' not made in Canada. He went by the hardware store on the way in and bought a new one. Charged the customer retail rates with the clock running. Nobody said a peep... I went to Edmonton, Alberta in the early 1990s to install some software at a customer site. Canadian customs found my tape (this was before CDs downloads), took me into a back room, and grilled me for at least an hour about what I was carrying, why I was there, who I was meeting, etc. They rifled through all of my bags and inspected *everything* right down to my underwear. They had one of those little goose-neck desk lamps pointed at me that were so cliche for interrogations on comedy shows. It was all I could do to keep a straight face. I think they were upset that I wasn't taking them seriously enough... -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
Who ever thought that software support by US Citizens would be a selling point? IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens http://www.ibm.com/vrm/newsletter_10207_5013_119015_email_DYN_1IN/KPoro wski122130192 IBM(r) Software Secure Support via USA Citizens (Software Secure Support) provides a software support option that is performed exclusively by U.S. citizens located in the United States. Data analysis and call data will be contained in an isolated network within a facility that meets U.S. Government security specifications. It provides standard software support that complements your prerequisite base IBM software support service. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
On 16 Jun 2009 07:06:29 -0700, ken.porow...@cit.com (Ken Porowski) wrote: Who ever thought that software support by US Citizens would be a selling point? George Orwell? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
What I thought was interesting was it isn't available till OCTOBER. James (Jim) Chappell 503 745-7841 503 349-5603(cell) james.chapp...@daimler.com Daimler Trucks North America LLC If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us immediately that you have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank you for your cooperation. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Howard Brazee Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:46 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens On 16 Jun 2009 07:06:29 -0700, ken.porow...@cit.com (Ken Porowski) wrote: Who ever thought that software support by US Citizens would be a selling point? George Orwell? But, he's from that island on the other side of the pond? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
In a message dated 6/16/2009 11:57:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time, gib...@wsu.edu writes: But, he's from that island on the other side of the pond? What was the one TJ Watson got in so much trouble about tattooing serial numbers for identification on all citizens? I've been trying _www.bing.com_ (http://www.bing.com) not many good hits. **An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823265x1201398681/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=62bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
Not only was he from that island but was actually born in INDIA ! Plus ca change ... On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:55:48 -0700, Gibney, Dave gib...@wsu.edu wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Howard Brazee Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:46 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens On 16 Jun 2009 07:06:29 -0700, ken.porow...@cit.com (Ken Porowski) wrote: Who ever thought that software support by US Citizens would be a selling point? George Orwell? But, he's from that island on the other side of the pond? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
They have to hire USA citizens first Jim Chappell james.chapp...@daimler.com Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 06/16/2009 12:55 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu To IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu cc Subject Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens What I thought was interesting was it isn't available till OCTOBER. James (Jim) Chappell 503 745-7841 503 349-5603(cell) james.chapp...@daimler.com Daimler Trucks North America LLC If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us immediately that you have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank you for your cooperation. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
And we all know that there aren't enough qualified people, which is why the jobs went overseas in the first place, right? ;-) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jerry Fuchs Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:25 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens They have to hire USA citizens first Jim Chappell james.chapp...@daimler.com Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 06/16/2009 12:55 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu To IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu cc Subject Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens What I thought was interesting was it isn't available till OCTOBER. James (Jim) Chappell 503 745-7841 503 349-5603(cell) james.chapp...@daimler.com Daimler Trucks North America LLC If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us immediately that you have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank you for your cooperation. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
Ya know! Not everybody on this is a USA Citizen. Nor, do we live in the USA. I'm still trying to see where this helps me. (Flame me if you wish). But, I'd prefer to see this topic dropped. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -Original Message- From: Hal Merritt hmerr...@jackhenry.com Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:38:16 To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens And we all know that there aren't enough qualified people, which is why the jobs went overseas in the first place, right? ;-) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jerry Fuchs Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:25 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens They have to hire USA citizens first Jim Chappell james.chapp...@daimler.com Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 06/16/2009 12:55 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu To IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu cc Subject Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens What I thought was interesting was it isn't available till OCTOBER. James (Jim) Chappell 503 745-7841 503 349-5603(cell) james.chapp...@daimler.com Daimler Trucks North America LLC If you are not the intended addressee, please inform us immediately that you have received this e-mail in error, and delete it. We thank you for your cooperation. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:42 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens Ya know! Not everybody on this is a USA Citizen. Nor, do we live in the USA. I'm still trying to see where this helps me. (Flame me if you wish). But, I'd prefer to see this topic dropped. Agreed. And I am a US citizen, living in the US. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
On 16 Jun 2009 12:39:44 -0700, hmerr...@jackhenry.com (Hal Merritt) wrote: And we all know that there aren't enough qualified people, which is why the jobs went overseas in the first place, right? ;-) By qualified, we mean cheap. Being able to do the job is way down on the list of attributes here. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
2009/6/16 Ken Porowski ken.porow...@cit.com Who ever thought that software support by US Citizens would be a selling point? IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens http://www.ibm.com/vrm/newsletter_10207_5013_119015_email_DYN_1IN/KPoro wski122130192http://www.ibm.com/vrm/newsletter_10207_5013_119015_email_DYN_1IN/KPoro%0Awski122130192 That SSSUCs... Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
AMEN We do all know. Steven Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:22:03 -0600 From: howard.bra...@cusys.edu Subject: Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu On 16 Jun 2009 12:39:44 -0700, hmerr...@jackhenry.com (Hal Merritt) wrote: And we all know that there aren't enough qualified people, which is why the jobs went overseas in the first place, right? ;-) By qualified, we mean cheap. Being able to do the job is way down on the list of attributes here. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html _ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Where should processing be done was Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
On 16 Jun 2009 12:48:37 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 2:42 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens Ya know! Not everybody on this is a USA Citizen. Nor, do we live in the USA. I'm still trying to see where this helps me. (Flame me if you wish). But, I'd prefer to see this topic dropped. Agreed. And I am a US citizen, living in the US. Probably IBM should look into providing similar services in each country it does business, Indians in India, Canadians in Canada, etc. As a US citizen living in Canada, I would strongly urge Canadian companies not doing business in the US to also not keep any personal data on US computers because of Patriot Act implications. In general, if an organization does not otherwise do business in a jurisdiction and maintain legal expertise for that jurisdiction, it should not have any data processing in that jurisdiction. In federal countries, there may be interesting surprises between states, provinces, cantons, etc.. In the case of IBM, GM, Volkswagen, HSBC and like companies, they have the legal exposure anyway in most jurisdictions where they might have data processing so this does not apply. What portions of the information processing represent (or at least should represent) the core competency of an organization. What really can safely be farmed out to outside organizations? How trustworthy are hired guns like myself whose last three jobs were as a contractor? It is a balancing act and especially difficult for a small organization. To have adequate expertise in many areas of security crucial to an organization, a small entity may have little choice other than contracting to a specialist organization yet security can be crucial to that entity's ability to do business. An organization will have to manage the relationships and I suspect that cost is greatly underestimated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
I think this is being misconstrued. There are caveats in the Stimulus Package (3.4 trillion dollars of spending) requiring that the money not be granted to projects not using resources in the United States. This is fair considering that the money is being spent to stimulate the American economy. I suspect IBM wants to create a supply channel for products and services that is obviously and unambiguously compliant with this so that IBM (and companies that sub-contract to it) is clearly eligible for Stimulus Package projects. Harry Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:01:54 -0400 From: ken.porow...@cit.com Subject: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Who ever thought that software support by US Citizens would be a selling point? IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens http://www.ibm.com/vrm/newsletter_10207_5013_119015_email_DYN_1IN/KPoro wski122130192 IBM(r) Software Secure Support via USA Citizens (Software Secure Support) provides a software support option that is performed exclusively by U.S. citizens located in the United States. Data analysis and call data will be contained in an isolated network within a facility that meets U.S. Government security specifications. It provides standard software support that complements your prerequisite base IBM software support service. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
There are caveats in the Stimulus Package (3.4 trillion dollars of spending) requiring that the money not be granted to projects not using resources in the United States. This is fair considering that the money is being spent to stimulate the American economy. Unfortunately, the economy is a Global affair. If it weren't, the US melt-down wouldn't have affected everybody else. Protectionism is a sure way to extend a recession. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Where should processing be done was Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
As a US citizen living in Canada, I would strongly urge Canadian companies not doing business in the US to also not keep any personal data on US computers because of Patriot Act implications. Even if they're doing business in the US, I would strongly recommend keeping Canadian data in Canada. A couple of years ago, George W got the clearing houses in Belgium (I believe) to cough up information from any/all members of that international consortium. While security for the US is important to the US, it does not give them the right to trump another country's security. Another example is that the US now requires all the security information of any flight to/from/within Canada to be supplied to them, if the flight path happens to cross over any US air-space. As a Canadian, I find this a little hard to swallow. This is the last I'll say (publicly) on this issue, since it has drifted off-topic. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Where should processing be done was Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
On 16 Jun 2009 16:31:00 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: As a US citizen living in Canada, I would strongly urge Canadian companies not doing business in the US to also not keep any personal data on US computers because of Patriot Act implications. Even if they're doing business in the US, I would strongly recommend keeping Canadian data in Canada. A couple of years ago, George W got the clearing houses in Belgium (I believe) to cough up information from any/all members of that international consortium. While security for the US is important to the US, it does not give them the right to trump another country's security. Another example is that the US now requires all the security information of any flight to/from/within Canada to be supplied to them, if the flight path happens to cross over any US air-space. I agree with you on the latter and hope Canada reciprocates the request for information. Where this discussion is relevant is in the provision of service and policies each of us might consider advising our employers about implications. When I am contracting on the applications side, much of the time in order to do my job I need to have access to confidential information to verify that the requested change/fix/enhancement works and that data is properly validated. Control of who has access to what is a very interesting challenge. The laws surrounding the protections on the data and on outside contractors use/misuse of it are interesting. Of course an organization may not want to hear about concerns. I know it was interesting addressing security issues at one shop (a situation that has changed since I left). The main reason that this topic may be off topic is that most of us are (or in my case were since I am retired with a willingness to take contracts) not in a position to effectively raise this type of issue. As a Canadian, I find this a little hard to swallow. This is the last I'll say (publicly) on this issue, since it has drifted off-topic. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:49:56 -0400, Harry Wahl wrote: I think this is being misconstrued. And misconstrued in making this a border bash. The original move was to eliminate jobs in one country in favor of labor prices in another (according to the stories I read). Now that the direction is reversed, it's bad ??? Not worthy of discussion ??? Regardless of the direction, I think it's an interesting situation. I doubt we'll ever know the real reasoning behind it. Maybe stimulus money grabbing ??? Maybe protecting corporate data within the laws of the company's resident country ??? Maybe marketing ??? Valid cases can probably be made for each of these and more. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Where should processing be done was Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
snip - Go to bottom Clark Morris wrote: On 16 Jun 2009 16:31:00 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: As a US citizen living in Canada, I would strongly urge Canadian companies not doing business in the US to also not keep any personal data on US computers because of Patriot Act implications. Even if they're doing business in the US, I would strongly recommend keeping Canadian data in Canada. A couple of years ago, George W got the clearing houses in Belgium (I believe) to cough up information from any/all members of that international consortium. While security for the US is important to the US, it does not give them the right to trump another country's security. Another example is that the US now requires all the security information of any flight to/from/within Canada to be supplied to them, if the flight path happens to cross over any US air-space. I agree with you on the latter and hope Canada reciprocates the request for information. Where this discussion is relevant is in the provision of service and policies each of us might consider advising our employers about implications. When I am contracting on the applications side, much of the time in order to do my job I need to have access to confidential information to verify that the requested change/fix/enhancement works and that data is properly validated. Control of who has access to what is a very interesting challenge. The laws surrounding the protections on the data and on outside contractors use/misuse of it are interesting. Of course an organization may not want to hear about concerns. I know it was interesting addressing security issues at one shop (a situation that has changed since I left). The main reason that this topic may be off topic is that most of us are (or in my case were since I am retired with a willingness to take contracts) not in a position to effectively raise this type of issue. As a Canadian, I find this a little hard to swallow. This is the last I'll say (publicly) on this issue, since it has drifted off-topic. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -unsnip- There's a very fine line between security and paranoia; when do we decide that it's been crossed? Seriously. What constitutes a Security Measure, as opposed to a disturbing invasion of privacy? When does my aftershave, properly packaged in the original container, become a potential liquid explosive? Or the bottle of water that I'm drinking? When does my shotgun cease to be a valid bird-hunting gun and become a terrorist weapon? My point is this: we need to think, realistically, about what constitutes a threat and how do we defend against that threat. I'm sure that we can all develope serious threats in our own minds, and some may be very real. But let's evaluate threat possibilities with a couple of pounds of realistic thinking. Between reality and dollar signs, most management teams are capable of learning. It's up to us, as realists and technicians, to help management learn the realities. Slowly but surely, we have to wean them away from the Airline Magazines that so many seem to be enamored of, and help them see a bit of the real world. Reality can be a real BITCH; but it's still reality! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Where should processing be done was Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens
There are numerous, not-so-obvious ways that the nebulous net can unexpectedly cross borders and become subject to the whims of foreign agencies. One example was Lakehead University in Thunder Bay, Ontario, who in a cost-savings measures, decided to take advantage of GoogleApps. This caused a strike by academic professionals when they realized their emails, documents, etc. would be entirely open to Homeland Security. (AFAIK, CSIS is not so empowered; not so sure about the CSE (Communications Security Establishment Canada). I believe this continues to be the case until an all-in-Canada solution is developed, but with faculty, staff and students working within the limits of a list of cautions. Then there's Facebook and analogues... John Baxter Edmonton (My own opinions, not necessarily those of my employer.) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:39 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Where should processing be done was Re: IBM Software Secure Support via USA Citizens snip - Go to bottom Clark Morris wrote: On 16 Jun 2009 16:31:00 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: As a US citizen living in Canada, I would strongly urge Canadian companies not doing business in the US to also not keep any personal data on US computers because of Patriot Act implications. Even if they're doing business in the US, I would strongly recommend keeping Canadian data in Canada. A couple of years ago, George W got the clearing houses in Belgium (I believe) to cough up information from any/all members of that international consortium. While security for the US is important to the US, it does not give them the right to trump another country's security. Another example is that the US now requires all the security information of any flight to/from/within Canada to be supplied to them, if the flight path happens to cross over any US air-space. I agree with you on the latter and hope Canada reciprocates the request for information. Where this discussion is relevant is in the provision of service and policies each of us might consider advising our employers about implications. When I am contracting on the applications side, much of the time in order to do my job I need to have access to confidential information to verify that the requested change/fix/enhancement works and that data is properly validated. Control of who has access to what is a very interesting challenge. The laws surrounding the protections on the data and on outside contractors use/misuse of it are interesting. Of course an organization may not want to hear about concerns. I know it was interesting addressing security issues at one shop (a situation that has changed since I left). The main reason that this topic may be off topic is that most of us are (or in my case were since I am retired with a willingness to take contracts) not in a position to effectively raise this type of issue. As a Canadian, I find this a little hard to swallow. This is the last I'll say (publicly) on this issue, since it has drifted off-topic. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -unsnip--- -- There's a very fine line between security and paranoia; when do we decide that it's been crossed? Seriously. What constitutes a Security Measure, as opposed to a disturbing invasion of privacy? When does my aftershave, properly packaged in the original container, become a potential liquid explosive? Or the bottle of water that I'm drinking? When does my shotgun cease to be a valid bird-hunting gun and become a terrorist weapon? My point is this: we need to think, realistically, about what constitutes a threat and how do we defend against that threat. I'm sure that we can all develope serious threats in our own minds, and some may be very real. But let's evaluate threat possibilities with a couple of pounds of realistic thinking. Between reality and dollar signs, most management teams are capable of learning. It's up to us, as realists and technicians, to help management learn the realities. Slowly but surely, we have to wean them away from the Airline Magazines that so many seem to be enamored of, and help them see a bit of the real world. Reality can be a real BITCH; but it's still reality! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html The information transmitted is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution
