Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 11/14/2008
   at 04:34 PM, Scott Ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

>I understand ppl being entrenched in their OPsys they are 'experts' on,

Not necessarily voluntarily. You may not be able to get your foot in the
door for a new platform. From what I've seen, the compartmentalization
stems from management rather than from the worker bees.

>but being a multi-platform individual helps me in this recession,

Il va sans dire. Even without the Bush Depression, I would regard, e.g., a
CICS guru who declined an opportunity to pick up DB2 experience, a z/OS
guru who declined an opportunity to pick up Linux experience, as short
sighted.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Scott Ford]

John,
I came from OS/VS2 to VSE to VM to Z/OS, what a strange trip it has been.
Picked up AIX, Linux, AS/400 and pcs along the way...Had to to do my job..

Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer

 
[p] 678.266.3399 x304[m] 609-346-0399  identityforge.com



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-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of John McKown
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 4:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:34:56 -0500, Scott Ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Ed,
>
>I understand ppl being entrenched in their OPsys they are 'experts' on, I
>use this term loosely, but being a multi-platform individual helps me in
>this recession, if that is what u want to call this economic situation we
>are in...
>
>Scott Ford
>Senior Systems Engineer

I hope it helps me (at 56, I need all the help I can get). I've only got
experience on z/OS (some z/VM), but I do Linux at home and love it. We're
looking at the possibility of replacing the z with an i. I hope, if we do,
that I get the chance to transfer over to working on it. We don't currently
have any "i" expertise in house. The only thing that I don't want to bother
with is Windows. I really despise the software and MS as well.

--
John

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Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[John McKown]

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:34:56 -0500, Scott Ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Ed,
>
>I understand ppl being entrenched in their OPsys they are 'experts' on, I
>use this term loosely, but being a multi-platform individual helps me in
>this recession, if that is what u want to call this economic situation we
>are in...
>
>Scott Ford
>Senior Systems Engineer

I hope it helps me (at 56, I need all the help I can get). I've only got
experience on z/OS (some z/VM), but I do Linux at home and love it. We're
looking at the possibility of replacing the z with an i. I hope, if we do,
that I get the chance to transfer over to working on it. We don't currently
have any "i" expertise in house. The only thing that I don't want to bother
with is Windows. I really despise the software and MS as well.

--
John

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Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Scott Ford]

Ed,

I understand ppl being entrenched in their OPsys they are 'experts' on, I
use this term loosely, but being a multi-platform individual helps me in
this recession, if that is what u want to call this economic situation we
are in...

Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer

 
[p] 678.266.3399 x304[m] 609-346-0399  identityforge.com



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-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Ed Finnell
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

 
In a message dated 11/14/2008 6:39:43 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

knowledge of all of the major OSes since applications span them all  and
problem resolution will require the ability to sort out which one  of
them is the real culprit.  


>>
Long ago and far away Cross platform support  was a hot topic at SHARE.
Think I got on one of the committees or  something. It was like herding
cats. 
The bias and platform bigotry was just  too entrenched.
 
 With the advent of the Internet you  don't have to know what you're doing
to 
have a blog and berate everyone and  everything that doesn't support your 
jaundice. Just lock and load(is that  still legal?) and
let the fur fly. The problem(my perception) is  that as creatures of
habit(21 
days?) it becomes accepted as truth...oh well  back to your regularly 
scheduled  broadcast! 



**Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & 
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Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Ed Finnell]

 
In a message dated 11/14/2008 6:39:43 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

knowledge of all of the major OSes since applications span them all  and
problem resolution will require the ability to sort out which one  of
them is the real culprit.  


>>
Long ago and far away Cross platform support  was a hot topic at SHARE.
Think I got on one of the committees or  something. It was like herding cats. 
The bias and platform bigotry was just  too entrenched.
 
 With the advent of the Internet you  don't have to know what you're doing to 
have a blog and berate everyone and  everything that doesn't support your 
jaundice. Just lock and load(is that  still legal?) and
let the fur fly. The problem(my perception) is  that as creatures of habit(21 
days?) it becomes accepted as truth...oh well  back to your regularly 
scheduled  broadcast! 



**Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & 
more!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1212774565x1200812037/aol?redir=htt
p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown0001)

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Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Veilleux, Jon L]

I agree with the cross training focus. It is no longer sufficient to
know one OS. The trend is towards integration of different OSes (ex. USS
on z/OS, and zLINUX). I have had to learn UNIX (and LINUX) in order to
be able to support z/OS. In the future it will be imperative to have
knowledge of all of the major OSes since applications span them all and
problem resolution will require the ability to sort out which one of
them is the real culprit.  


Jon L. Veilleux 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
(860) 636-2683 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Timothy Sipples
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 12:42 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

Scott Ford writes:
>A lot of 'younger' guys and gals don't want to learn z/OS or any of 
>it's components.

A lot do. [And, it should be noted, the mountain has moved. If you're a
J2EE programmer, for example, learning WebSphere Application Server for
z/OS is literally zero effort.(*)]

Those that don't will have lower odds of finding and keeping employment
-- and maintaining desired salaries -- ceteris paribus, if the expert
forecasters are correct. Overall IT employment in the U.S. has fallen
quite a bit since its dot-com peak already.?

Also if the experts are correct, one would think there should be an
increase in ab initio and cross training needs. Programs like the
Academic Initiative and "Master the Mainframe" contest are
manifestations of the former, but I wonder if the latter category has
been fully mined yet. Maybe there should be more training that takes
someone with skill set "X" and cross-trains them to acquire additional
skills "Y." Some companies do this internally already.

(*) Although some developers do experience the cultural shock of being
expected to produce *quality*, not just quantity. Mainframes measure
things and tell you exactly where you got it wrong. Some developers get
offended by that. :-)

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM
Japan / Asia-Pacific
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Jan MOEYERSONS]

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 07:06:03 -0500, Scott Ford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>A lot of 'younger' guys and gals don't want to learn z/OS or any of it's
>components.

"want" is unfortunately the key word in that sentence.

On the other hand, I foster a few youngsters that do want to learn and I
have to say: I am surprised to see the astonishing rate at which they (the
ones that _want_ to learn) pick it up.

So there is still hope.

Cheers,

Jantje.

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Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Timothy Sipples]

Scott Ford writes:
>A lot of 'younger' guys and gals don't want to learn z/OS or
>any of it's components.

A lot do. [And, it should be noted, the mountain has moved. If you're a
J2EE programmer, for example, learning WebSphere Application Server for
z/OS is literally zero effort.(*)]

Those that don't will have lower odds of finding and keeping employment --
and maintaining desired salaries -- ceteris paribus, if the expert
forecasters are correct. Overall IT employment in the U.S. has fallen quite
a bit since its dot-com peak already.?

Also if the experts are correct, one would think there should be an
increase in ab initio and cross training needs. Programs like the Academic
Initiative and "Master the Mainframe" contest are manifestations of the
former, but I wonder if the latter category has been fully mined yet. Maybe
there should be more training that takes someone with skill set "X" and
cross-trains them to acquire additional skills "Y." Some companies do this
internally already.

(*) Although some developers do experience the cultural shock of being
expected to produce *quality*, not just quantity. Mainframes measure things
and tell you exactly where you got it wrong. Some developers get offended
by that. :-)

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan / Asia-Pacific
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: SUSPECT: Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Jackson, Robin]

Hi Tom,

Just noticed that your signature block indicated that you were at
Commerce Bank of Kansas City.  Just wanted to say hi and see if any of
the folks that were a part of the team that I worked with when the
Commerce data center were still there.  I worked with Phil Harris, Ned
Day, Brad Landon, and company back in 2002 when the data center was
being built.  There was also a fellow named Bob (can't remember his last
name) that started out to be the operations manager.  I really can't
remember any of the other names of the folks that I came in contact with
at that time.  Since I left there I have landed in Nashville, TN, by way
of about 5 years in PA.

I monitor this list all of the time and just thought I would say hi.


Rob Jackson

Rob Jackson 
Senior z/OS Systems Programmer 
Work phone: (615) 231-4998
Cell phone: (717) 226-1196
Fax (615) 886-9519
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kelman, Tom
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:06 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: SUSPECT: Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

Anton,

I think whether or not a mainframe job in the company types on your list
is "recession proof" depends on the individual company.  For example, I
work for a bank as you can see from my signature block.  My bank is a
mid-size regional commercial bank (as opposed to an investment bank)
that is pretty conservative and was not involved in sub-prime lending.
Except for the fall out from the economy at large, it is not having
problems.  In fact our stock is priced about the same as it was back in
March in a market where most stocks are way down. (Check stock code
CBSH.) Also, we are hiring right now in all IT areas.  I'm not
particularly concerned about my job.  What I'm trying to point out is
that you can't completely generalize by industry type.

Also, as what the speaker on this video was pointing out was that the
current mainframe specialists are retiring and there is a need for new
blood in the profession.  As we all know the mainframe did not die
regardless of what Bill Gates would have everyone think.

Tom Kelman
Enterprise Capacity Planner
Commerce Bank of Kansas City
(816) 760-7632

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Anton Britz
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:24 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Depends where and for who, I suppose ?
> 
> I am not so sure this statement applies to the following :
> 
> a) The banking/Investment sector
> b) The Car industry
> c) American Express
> d) The Retail sector
> e) EDS/HP
> f) The Re-insurance business... AIG/GENRE
> g) The unknown sector that received $2 trillion of emergency loans
from
> American taxpayers .. Still to be named.
> h) The Newspaper/Cable business
> i) The Airline business
> 
> Who is "still standing" ?
> 
> a) Oil Companies .. but they outsourced long before they where making
1
> Billion dollars a day. Had friends that where layed off in Houston..
> Consultants
> and permanent employees
> b) Drug companies.. did not see them ask for "bail out" money yet but
I
> did
> see lots of new VIAGRA adverts on the local Tv channels
> c) Boeing.. Saw a TV advert they made,  praising all the veteran's a
day
> a'go
> because they need Military spending to increase.
> d) Military spending in Phoenix, AZ.. How much of the budget is going
to
> AZ ?
> 
> Anton
> 
> On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:05:05 -0800, Edward Jaffe
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >A CNBC career expert interviewed on the Today Show claims "mainframe
> >computer expert" is a good, recession-proof 21st-century career
choice
> ...
> >
> >**http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26928164#26928164
> >
> >--
> >Edward E Jaffe
> >Phoenix Software International, Inc
> >5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
> >Los Angeles, CA 90045
> >310-338-0400 x318
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
> >
>
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**

Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[(IBM Mainframe Discussion List)]

 
 
In a message dated 11/12/2008 9:03:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>Just what in the H*** is a "Mainframe Computer Expert"?
>Another example of a "know-nothing" with diarhea of the mouth and  
constipation of brains.
 
"Recession proof" might be true for mainframe computer "experts", whatever  
that means, but that does not imply that said jobs will be  
"salary-decrease-proof."


 
Bill  Fairchild
Franklin, TN
 
“We  can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading  
reality.”  [Ayn Rand]
**Get movies delivered to your mailbox. One month free from 
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Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Scott Ford]

Tim,

After working for a MAJOR big 5 company in Europe for three years I
understand what you are saying. I was able to work in Europe after my job
was 'phased out', I always thought this was a strange phrase, anyway, the
Swiss had to justify why they needed me to come to work there, their rules
in particular were very strict. But it did provide me the opportunity to
work in Europe and have that experience.

Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer

 
[p] 678.266.3399 x304[m] 609-346-0399  identityforge.com



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-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Timothy Sipples
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

I put that video up on the Mainframe Blog a couple days ago.

Note that "recession proof" doesn't mean immune to venue changes. That is,
there will be ongoing turmoil in corporate identities and locations. So the
mainframe jobs won't necessarily be in the same cities for the same
companies. But the expert predictions are there will be lots of jobs. Some
of them can be done from home.

IBM and other companies will temper that demand somewhat by continuing to
boost mainframe worker productivity -- mainframers are and will continue to
be the most productive workers in IT, probably even widening the gap. But
"temper" is the right word, certainly not "eliminate."

I don't think this jobs analysis is particularly sophisticated, and it
doesn't have to be. If you consider the list of "recession proof" jobs,
most of them just follow from demographic trends in the United States. If
there are more elderly people -- a well-established demographic trend in
the U.S. -- there will be more demand for healthcare, ergo more healthcare
workers. You can make some accurate job category predictions for Japan
also: here the birthrate is extremely low, there's basically zero
immigration, and you can guess what the demographic trends are. Automakers
are not going to be happy with the Japanese domestic market, to pick one
example.

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan / Asia-Pacific
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Scott Ford]

How many ppl in the world understand what a Systems Programmer does or a
Network Engineer does,,,I understand these are titles, but consider that
there is no depth of understanding of what 'we' do...Including many times in
our own families. My late wife didn't understand at all, she knew I worked
with computers...that was about it. Being second generation IT my
perspective is totally different.

Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer

 
[p] 678.266.3399 x304[m] 609-346-0399  identityforge.com



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-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Rick Fochtman
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

Just what in the H*** is a "Mainframe Computer Expert"?

Another example of a "know-nothing" with diarhea of the mouth and 
constipation of brains.

Rick
-

Edward Jaffe wrote:

> A CNBC career expert interviewed on the Today Show claims "mainframe 
> computer expert" is a good, recession-proof 21st-century career choice 
> ...
>
> **http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26928164#26928164
>

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Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Kelman, Tom]

Anton,

I think whether or not a mainframe job in the company types on your list
is "recession proof" depends on the individual company.  For example, I
work for a bank as you can see from my signature block.  My bank is a
mid-size regional commercial bank (as opposed to an investment bank)
that is pretty conservative and was not involved in sub-prime lending.
Except for the fall out from the economy at large, it is not having
problems.  In fact our stock is priced about the same as it was back in
March in a market where most stocks are way down. (Check stock code
CBSH.) Also, we are hiring right now in all IT areas.  I'm not
particularly concerned about my job.  What I'm trying to point out is
that you can't completely generalize by industry type.

Also, as what the speaker on this video was pointing out was that the
current mainframe specialists are retiring and there is a need for new
blood in the profession.  As we all know the mainframe did not die
regardless of what Bill Gates would have everyone think.

Tom Kelman
Enterprise Capacity Planner
Commerce Bank of Kansas City
(816) 760-7632

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Anton Britz
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 5:24 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Depends where and for who, I suppose ?
> 
> I am not so sure this statement applies to the following :
> 
> a) The banking/Investment sector
> b) The Car industry
> c) American Express
> d) The Retail sector
> e) EDS/HP
> f) The Re-insurance business... AIG/GENRE
> g) The unknown sector that received $2 trillion of emergency loans
from
> American taxpayers .. Still to be named.
> h) The Newspaper/Cable business
> i) The Airline business
> 
> Who is "still standing" ?
> 
> a) Oil Companies .. but they outsourced long before they where making
1
> Billion dollars a day. Had friends that where layed off in Houston..
> Consultants
> and permanent employees
> b) Drug companies.. did not see them ask for "bail out" money yet but
I
> did
> see lots of new VIAGRA adverts on the local Tv channels
> c) Boeing.. Saw a TV advert they made,  praising all the veteran's a
day
> a'go
> because they need Military spending to increase.
> d) Military spending in Phoenix, AZ.. How much of the budget is going
to
> AZ ?
> 
> Anton
> 
> On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:05:05 -0800, Edward Jaffe
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >A CNBC career expert interviewed on the Today Show claims "mainframe
> >computer expert" is a good, recession-proof 21st-century career
choice
> ...
> >
> >**http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26928164#26928164
> >
> >--
> >Edward E Jaffe
> >Phoenix Software International, Inc
> >5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
> >Los Angeles, CA 90045
> >310-338-0400 x318
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
> >
>
>--
> >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Scott Ford]

Ed,

I think there will be a shortage when/if the dinos like us retire..
A lot of 'younger' guys and gals don't want to learn z/OS or any of it's
components. 

Scott Ford
Senior Systems Engineer

 
[p] 678.266.3399 x304[m] 609-346-0399  identityforge.com



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-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Ed Gould
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 12:14 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

--- On Wed, 11/12/08, Anton Britz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: Anton Britz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:24 PM
> Hi,
> 
> Depends where and for who, I suppose ?
> 
> I am not so sure this statement applies to the following :
> 
> a) The banking/Investment sector
> b) The Car industry
> c) American Express
> d) The Retail sector
> e) EDS/HP
> f) The Re-insurance business... AIG/GENRE
> g) The unknown sector that received $2 trillion of
> emergency loans from 
> American taxpayers .. Still to be named.
> h) The Newspaper/Cable business
> i) The Airline business
> 
> Who is "still standing" ?
> 
> a) Oil Companies .. but they outsourced long before they
> where making  1 
> Billion dollars a day. Had friends that where layed off in
> Houston.. Consultants 
> and permanent employees
> b) Drug companies.. did not see them ask for "bail
> out" money yet but I did 
> see lots of new VIAGRA adverts on the local Tv channels
> c) Boeing.. Saw a TV advert they made,  praising all the
> veteran's a day a'go 
> because they need Military spending to increase.
> d) Military spending in Phoenix, AZ.. How much of the
> budget is going to AZ ?
> 
> Anton
> 

Anton:

I honestly do not not remember the year but it was in the early 90's. I
think it was called Black Tuesday in the markets. Our VP managed to force a
performance person to be laid off. Yes he was the top dollar earner in the
area (and he was not an officer) but the short sighted VP did do it.
I was unhappy to see the guy guy go as now the other people (including me)
would have to do his duties. The company I worked for was a clearing house
for options. 

There were other dates that trading fell to a low and other people were laid
off as well. The damage the VP managed to do the company has never recovered
from and now the basically threaten their employees to pick up others jobs,
if not they are laid off as well. Needless to say what once was a nice
company to work for has gone down in flames. The reputation they had has
disappeared and no good people will come within a mile of them. 

Ed




  

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Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Timothy Sipples]

I put that video up on the Mainframe Blog a couple days ago.

Note that "recession proof" doesn't mean immune to venue changes. That is,
there will be ongoing turmoil in corporate identities and locations. So the
mainframe jobs won't necessarily be in the same cities for the same
companies. But the expert predictions are there will be lots of jobs. Some
of them can be done from home.

IBM and other companies will temper that demand somewhat by continuing to
boost mainframe worker productivity -- mainframers are and will continue to
be the most productive workers in IT, probably even widening the gap. But
"temper" is the right word, certainly not "eliminate."

I don't think this jobs analysis is particularly sophisticated, and it
doesn't have to be. If you consider the list of "recession proof" jobs,
most of them just follow from demographic trends in the United States. If
there are more elderly people -- a well-established demographic trend in
the U.S. -- there will be more demand for healthcare, ergo more healthcare
workers. You can make some accurate job category predictions for Japan
also: here the birthrate is extremely low, there's basically zero
immigration, and you can guess what the demographic trends are. Automakers
are not going to be happy with the Japanese domestic market, to pick one
example.

- - - - -
Timothy Sipples
IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect
Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan / Asia-Pacific
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Edward Jaffe]

Rick Fochtman wrote:

Just what in the H*** is a "Mainframe Computer Expert"?

Another example of a "know-nothing" with diarhea of the mouth and 
constipation of brains.


53% of mainframe workers now have 20+ years of experience. That 
qualifies them as "experts" in the context of the interview.


Terminology choices notwithstanding, she was attempting to focus 
attention on a serious mainframe skills shortage that will get much 
worse before it gets better.


Did you know:
o Newly declared computer-science majors are down 32%?
o The number of job openings for IT professionals nationwide increased 
by 47.6% from 2004 to 2006?
o Approximately 70 million "Baby Boomers" will exit the workforce during 
the next 15 years, with only 40 million new workers coming in?


The mainframe skills shortage and resulting employment opportunities are 
real. The career advice seems sound.


--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
Los Angeles, CA 90045
310-338-0400 x318
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Ed Gould]

--- On Wed, 11/12/08, Anton Britz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: Anton Britz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof
> To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
> Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 5:24 PM
> Hi,
> 
> Depends where and for who, I suppose ?
> 
> I am not so sure this statement applies to the following :
> 
> a) The banking/Investment sector
> b) The Car industry
> c) American Express
> d) The Retail sector
> e) EDS/HP
> f) The Re-insurance business... AIG/GENRE
> g) The unknown sector that received $2 trillion of
> emergency loans from 
> American taxpayers .. Still to be named.
> h) The Newspaper/Cable business
> i) The Airline business
> 
> Who is "still standing" ?
> 
> a) Oil Companies .. but they outsourced long before they
> where making  1 
> Billion dollars a day. Had friends that where layed off in
> Houston.. Consultants 
> and permanent employees
> b) Drug companies.. did not see them ask for "bail
> out" money yet but I did 
> see lots of new VIAGRA adverts on the local Tv channels
> c) Boeing.. Saw a TV advert they made,  praising all the
> veteran's a day a'go 
> because they need Military spending to increase.
> d) Military spending in Phoenix, AZ.. How much of the
> budget is going to AZ ?
> 
> Anton
> 

Anton:

I honestly do not not remember the year but it was in the early 90's. I think 
it was called Black Tuesday in the markets. Our VP managed to force a 
performance person to be laid off. Yes he was the top dollar earner in the area 
(and he was not an officer) but the short sighted VP did do it.
I was unhappy to see the guy guy go as now the other people (including me) 
would have to do his duties. The company I worked for was a clearing house for 
options. 

There were other dates that trading fell to a low and other people were laid 
off as well. The damage the VP managed to do the company has never recovered 
from and now the basically threaten their employees to pick up others jobs, if 
not they are laid off as well. Needless to say what once was a nice company to 
work for has gone down in flames. The reputation they had has disappeared and 
no good people will come within a mile of them. 

Ed




  

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Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Rick Fochtman]

Just what in the H*** is a "Mainframe Computer Expert"?

Another example of a "know-nothing" with diarhea of the mouth and 
constipation of brains.


Rick
-

Edward Jaffe wrote:

A CNBC career expert interviewed on the Today Show claims "mainframe 
computer expert" is a good, recession-proof 21st-century career choice 
...


**http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26928164#26928164



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Re: Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Anton Britz]

Hi,

Depends where and for who, I suppose ?

I am not so sure this statement applies to the following :

a) The banking/Investment sector
b) The Car industry
c) American Express
d) The Retail sector
e) EDS/HP
f) The Re-insurance business... AIG/GENRE
g) The unknown sector that received $2 trillion of emergency loans from 
American taxpayers .. Still to be named.
h) The Newspaper/Cable business
i) The Airline business

Who is "still standing" ?

a) Oil Companies .. but they outsourced long before they where making  1 
Billion dollars a day. Had friends that where layed off in Houston.. 
Consultants 
and permanent employees
b) Drug companies.. did not see them ask for "bail out" money yet but I did 
see lots of new VIAGRA adverts on the local Tv channels
c) Boeing.. Saw a TV advert they made,  praising all the veteran's a day a'go 
because they need Military spending to increase.
d) Military spending in Phoenix, AZ.. How much of the budget is going to AZ ?

Anton

On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:05:05 -0800, Edward Jaffe 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>A CNBC career expert interviewed on the Today Show claims "mainframe
>computer expert" is a good, recession-proof 21st-century career choice ...
>
>**http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26928164#26928164
>
>--
>Edward E Jaffe
>Phoenix Software International, Inc
>5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
>Los Angeles, CA 90045
>310-338-0400 x318
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
>Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html

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Mainframe Jobs Considered Recession Proof

[Edward Jaffe]

A CNBC career expert interviewed on the Today Show claims "mainframe 
computer expert" is a good, recession-proof 21st-century career choice ...


**http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26928164#26928164

--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
Los Angeles, CA 90045
310-338-0400 x318
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

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