Re: Supported Documentation
I've observed that the new InfoCenter format seems to enjoy a higher velocity of updates, corrections, and amplifications. If you look at the WebSphere Application Server for z/OS InfoCenter, for example, there are date stamps on certain pages within the past month. The InfoCenter format has been spreading to many products. I see CICS, MQ, DB2, DB2 tools, AD/PD tools (like File Manager, Fault Analyzer, etc.) -- I think all the major products and a fair number of the less common products have InfoCenter coverage now. I see pages in the CICS Transaction Server V3.2 InfoCenter that were updated within the past month, to pick another example. You can place the InfoCenters on the mainframe and serve them right from there, so that's a nice plus, especially for your disaster recovery needs when you probably need documentation the most. I think there's a certain training company that can show you how if you haven't figured it out. :-) - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Supported Documentation
Walt Farrell said: A DOC APAR would help in the interim, imho, but the OP doesn't seem to agree. I absolutely disagree. There's no seem to it. How often do you research DOC APARS for your manuals? Here's an example: Suppose you can't remember which register holds the remainder on a divide instruction. You'd look it up, right? Would you also check for any applicable DOC APARS? Sounds ridiculous. You assume the documentation is probably correct. My latest example is this: You have a licensed product on only one system in a MAS. The product runs as a subsystem. JCL references the subsystem using the SUBSYS parameter. You want to know if this could be an issue at JCL conversion time if the JCL were converted on one of the systems without the licensed product. The documentation says the subsystem only has to be defined to pass conversion. You define it. You submit the JCL. It fails during conversion, saying the subsystem is not available. A SCHENV parameter would have forced the job to run on the right system had it been converted successfully. What's the problem? Affinity would circumvent the problem, but the documentation says it was not required. The Support Center says the doc is incorrect, and the code is working as designed. Should I have looked for a DOC APAR before this occurred? Why? Do I have to assume every document is probably incorrect and peruse all the DOC APARS before opening the document? Ok - Ranted enough. The publications folks at IBM want to have a conference call next week. Hopefully not just so they can explain how prohibitively expensive it would be to provide accurate documentation. After all, receiving a few extra customer calls for misleading documentation has to be cheaper, doesn't it? Sarcasm aside, I'd be interested is any other constructive input before I present my case. IMHO electronic revisions could be maintained on an IBM site, and downloaded by customers as often as the customer felt was useful. Or, just use the IBM copy and don't keep your own. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Supported Documentation
Or, just use the IBM copy and don't keep your own. There is an old joke regarding the circular arguments about documentation: Caller: The example on page 666 is incorrect. IBM: So what? It's only an example. Caller: How do I ... ? IBM: Use the example on page 666. Bad documentation hurts us all. And, IBM should be more pro-active and less defensive. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Supported Documentation
Does anyone know why IBM refuses to update their documentation any more? Once documentation is shipped, it is never supported. I have had this problem several times in the past few years. The software is not working as documented, but the support center determines the doc is wrong, not the code. They tell me they will put in an untrackable request to update the documentation in a future release. Meanwhile, the current documentation still is incorrect, leading to additional customer problems. I can't be the only one who runs into this issue. Occasionally they will open a DOC apar, but that isn't worth the paper it's written on, since it's impractical to search for DOC apars for every topic in every manual you use. Maybe it sounds like I'm whining, and a couple beers might help, but it won't fix the production outage that occurred because of incorrect documentation. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Supported Documentation
Hmm, I think a couple of beers is in order for you, Happy Hour Friday is still a few days away. I've sent them updates on a few documentation issues that need to be corrected, and lo and behold, they have actually updated it with the next update to the manual, and if the problem is enough gto warrant it, they open a DOC or informational apar on it. - Original Message - From: Martin Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 10:12 AM Subject: Supported Documentation Does anyone know why IBM refuses to update their documentation any more? Once documentation is shipped, it is never supported. I have had this problem several times in the past few years. The software is not working as documented, but the support center determines the doc is wrong, not the code. They tell me they will put in an untrackable request to update the documentation in a future release. Meanwhile, the current documentation still is incorrect, leading to additional customer problems. I can't be the only one who runs into this issue. Occasionally they will open a DOC apar, but that isn't worth the paper it's written on, since it's impractical to search for DOC apars for every topic in every manual you use. Maybe it sounds like I'm whining, and a couple beers might help, but it won't fix the production outage that occurred because of incorrect documentation. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Supported Documentation
But the next update to the manual doesn't occur until the release currently under development or later. Even IBM's online doc doesn't get updated for currently supported releases. I've sent them updates on a few documentation issues that need to be corrected, and lo and behold, they have actually updated it with the next update to the manual, and if the problem is enough gto warrant it, they open a DOC or informational apar on it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Supported Documentation
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Kline Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:13 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Supported Documentation Does anyone know why IBM refuses to update their documentation any more? Once documentation is shipped, it is never supported. I have had this problem several times in the past few years. The software is not working as documented, but the support center determines the doc is wrong, not the code. They tell me they will put in an untrackable request to update the documentation in a future release. Meanwhile, the current documentation still is incorrect, leading to additional customer problems. I can't be the only one who runs into this issue. Occasionally they will open a DOC apar, but that isn't worth the paper it's written on, since it's impractical to search for DOC apars for every topic in every manual you use. Maybe it sounds like I'm whining, and a couple beers might help, but it won't fix the production outage that occurred because of incorrect documentation. snip Choir -- preaching. Yes, I have the picture, but IBM management somehow doesn't. Notice that the PoOP does get new dash numbers. So do certain other manuals that do not depend on software development cycles. DOC errors and fixing seem to not be viewed as a defect that must be fixed. So this means that there is a Lack of budget which to me is Poor planning, or the ubiquitous PC mentality where the doc is updated on some obscure site that the users are supposed to know about (something about tech notes, but some how each group has their own) -- but is not attached to the Library site that we all seem to go to to down load the latest... Regards, Steve Thompson -- All opinions expressed by me are my own and may not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Supported Documentation
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:12:53 -0500, Martin Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They tell me they will put in an untrackable request to update the documentation in a future release. Alternatively, you can send in the request yourself (check the book for suggestions on how to send in reader's comments) and then you have something track. -- Walt Farrell, CISSP IBM STSM, z/OS Security Design -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Supported Documentation
Does anyone know why IBM refuses to update their documentation any more? When I were a lad (back in the day) IBM used to mail out Technical News Letters (TNLs) on real dead-tree PAPER (gasp!) that you could insert in the proper place in your 3 ring binder PAPER copy of each manual. Those changes could occur anywhere in the lifecycle of a product release. I always went to the trouble of inserted TNLs in the right place. Most folks just inserted the TNLs at the front or back of the binder, but even so those old paper manuals were kept more or less up to date. Now we have the capability of accurately changing the electronic versions at a moment's notice. However as far as I can tell, the doc set only changes on release boundaries and changes often lag a release or more behind the software. But IBM swears it still cares about its customers. Go figure. CC -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Supported Documentation
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:29:29 -0400, Craddock, Chris wrote: When I were a lad (back in the day) IBM used to mail out Technical News Letters (TNLs) on real dead-tree PAPER (gasp!) that you could insert in the proper place in your 3 ring binder PAPER copy of each manual. Those changes could occur anywhere in the lifecycle of a product release. I'm having a nightmare about distributing updates to the source of electronic documentation in IEBUPDTE format. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Supported Documentation
When I were a lad (back in the day) IBM used to mail out Technical News Letters (TNLs) on real dead-tree PAPER (gasp!) that you could insert in the proper place in your 3 ring binder PAPER copy of each manual. Those changes could occur anywhere in the lifecycle of a product release. And we Liked It!!! Daniel McLaughlin Z-Series Systems Programmer Information Communications Technology Crawford Company 4680 N. Royal Atlanta Tucker GA 30084 phone: 770-621-3256 fax: 770-621-3237 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.crawfordandcompany.com Best Overall Third-Party Claims Administrator - 2007 Business Insurance Readers Choice Awards Consider the environment before printing this message. This transmission is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This communication may contain information that is confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the named addressee, you are NOT authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this communication, its attachments or any part of them. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this communication from all computers. This communication does not form any contractual obligation on behalf of the sender, the sender's employer, or the employer's parent company, affiliates or subsidiaries. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Supported Documentation
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:14:18 -0500, Walt Farrell wrote: On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:12:53 -0500, Martin Kline wrote: They tell me they will put in an untrackable request to update the documentation in a future release. Alternatively, you can send in the request yourself (check the book for suggestions on how to send in reader's comments) and then you have something track. And what help is that to the submitter's peers who are apt to encounter the same problem? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Supported Documentation
Gil wrote: And what help is that to the submitter's peers who are apt to encounter the same problem? That's exactly why updated doc should be made available. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Supported Documentation
Having read the thread (so far), I have a few comments. (All of this is written assuming that what you want is semi-real-time updates to electronic versions of IBM documentation). 1) Even in the days of hard-copy TNL's, each TNL was reflected in a new dash-level. Do you REALLY want a new dash-level every time a single dox change occurs for a manual? If not, how would users and IBM know that they were looking at the same version of a manual? 2) Currently MANY products do produce new dash-levels of manuals between releases (or to earlier releases that are still in service). If there is a specific product or feature that you think does NOT get updated as frequently as you think it should, then you should let IBM (not IBM-MAIN) know. Ways to do so include RCF's, Marketing requirements, SHARE requirements. (I know that the LNGC project of SHARE accepts documentation-related requirements and assume other projects do as well). 3) If you aren't aware of it, documentation changes require development resources (for review if not authoring). Therefore, the more frequently you want dox changes, the more resources you want pulled from development and maintenance of IBM software. Is this REALLY your priority. 4) Others have mentioned DOC APARs. Are you aware that you can find these easily - without using IBMLink. Check out (for example), http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/ZIDOCMS1/CCONTENT S That book is updated quite frequently. Martin Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Does anyone know why IBM refuses to update their documentation any more? Once documentation is shipped, it is never supported. I have had this problem several times in the past few years. The software is not working as documented, but the support center determines the doc is wrong, not the code. They tell me they will put in an untrackable request to update the documentation in a future release. Meanwhile, the current documentation still is incorrect, leading to additional customer problems. I can't be the only one who runs into this issue. Occasionally they will open a DOC apar, but that isn't worth the paper it's written on, since it's impractical to search for DOC apars for every topic in every manual you use. Maybe it sounds like I'm whining, and a couple beers might help, but it won't fix the production outage that occurred because of incorrect documentation. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Supported Documentation
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:58:24 -0500, Paul Gilmartin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:14:18 -0500, Walt Farrell wrote: On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:12:53 -0500, Martin Kline wrote: They tell me they will put in an untrackable request to update the documentation in a future release. Alternatively, you can send in the request yourself (check the book for suggestions on how to send in reader's comments) and then you have something track. And what help is that to the submitter's peers who are apt to encounter the same problem? It doesn't, until the updated doc gets out on the web (which it can quite quickly if a problem is really severe enough). A DOC APAR would help in the interim, imho, but the OP doesn't seem to agree. -- Walt Farrell, CISSP IBM STSM, z/OS Security Design -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Supported Documentation
A DOC APAR would help in the interim, imho, but the OP doesn't seem to agree. -- Walt Farrell, CISSP IBM STSM, z/OS Security Design FWIW, I agree with the OP on DOC APARs. I've had many open for years and had to keep banging on IBM to get them incorporated into the manuals. RCF's work better, but I've also had to follow up a lot on those. It really depends on the software group you're dealing with. Some are better than others. Regards, Tom Conley -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
