Re: DCF (was Re: System z10 announcement (in English))
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 03/04/2008 at 06:26 PM, Roger Bolan [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Would you guys stop talking about DCF (Document Composition Facility, 5748-XX9) a.k.a. Script in the past tense? It is still available for z/OS, z/VM, and z/VSE. Yes, but aren't DCF, BookMaster and BookManager MVS all functionally stabilized? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DCF (was Re: System z10 announcement (in English))
That doesn't necessarily make them DEAD. And with B2H there's a certain element of continued vitality. Slight, mind you. :-( Martin (who uses Bookie and B2H every day) Martin Packer Performance Consultant IBM United Kingdom Ltd +44-20-8832-5167 +44-7802-245-584 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DCF (was Re: System z10 announcement (in English))
I don't really know the answer. It was always surprising to me that BookMaster and BookManager were owned by different functional organization than DCF. I don't support those or know what their official status is. For DCF, we do still fix defects. As far as I know, it is also still possible to submit new requirements for DCF. All requests for new function are processed through the marketing people. I think their general mindset is how many more licenses will it sell when looking at any request for new function. It's been a long time since we geared up for a whole new release, but sometimes a new function was added by an individual APAR. It's been a while since the last one of those too, but nobody has told me it's impossible. Roger Bolan Software Engineer e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] infoprint.com Boulder, Colorado, USA P Think before you print Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU 04/13/2008 05:11 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU To IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU cc Subject Re: DCF (was Re: System z10 announcement (in English)) In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 03/04/2008 at 06:26 PM, Roger Bolan [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Would you guys stop talking about DCF (Document Composition Facility, 5748-XX9) a.k.a. Script in the past tense? It is still available for z/OS, z/VM, and z/VSE. Yes, but aren't DCF, BookMaster and BookManager MVS all functionally stabilized? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DCF (was Re: System z10 announcement (in English))
I think you're thinking of the OS/390 Softcopy Print feature. While BookManager books can be built from DCF source books, there are other flavors of BookManager Build that I think can build from other types of source material. The OS/390 Softcopy Print feature, on the other hand, was for printing copies of books already in BookManager format and viewed the OS/390 BookManager Read. This involved supplying some parts of BookMaster, Fonts, PSF, and DCF which could print only the BookManager books without being enabled. This feature was available from OS/390 1.2 (or 1.3 maybe) till OS/390 2.10. The residual effect is that there is still Enablement checking which must now be used on DCF, but you no longer get the BookManager-only version supplied with the Softcopy Books. The Softcopy Print feature was discontinued. Trying to print from the BookManager format was never as good as having the printable format supplied as LIST3820, or LISTAFP, or PDF files. --Roger IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 03/05/2008 12:46:32 PM: But isn't the z/OS Book Mangler stuff still in DCF format and authorizes itself for printing? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DCF (was Re: System z10 announcement (in English))
In a message dated 3/7/2008 12:25:50 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: being enabled. This feature was available from OS/390 1.2 (or 1.3 maybe) till OS/390 2.10. The residual effect is that there is still Enablement checking which must now be used on DCF, but you no longer get the BookManager-only version supplied with the Softcopy Books. The Softcopy Print feature was discontinued. Trying to print from the BookManager format was never as good as having the printable format supplied as LIST3820, or LISTAFP, or PDF files. Thanks for the defogger/deicer. Haven't had Book manager on MVS since 2.10 exactly. Just runs off the doc server. **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf000301) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DCF (was Re: System z10 announcement (in English))
I don't know for sure about that book, but yes, a lot (if not all) of the Information Developers I know now use workstation based tools instead of BookMaster and DCF. Some Information Development groups don't even produce BookManager format output but produce some books in PDF format only now. --Roger IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 03/04/2008 08:26:25 PM: Alas, whenever I search for a z/Series PoOP online in HTML/Book format as opposed to PDF, I conclude that some department within IBM thinks of DCF only in the past tense. Has PoOP authoring abandoned DCF for a competing tool? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DCF (was Re: System z10 announcement (in English))
Roger Bolan wrote: Some Information Development groups don't even produce BookManager format output but produce some books in PDF format only now. Eclipse-based Infocenters are the in thing now. It's all XML based. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DCF (was Re: System z10 announcement (in English))
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 21:26:25 -0600, Paul Gilmartin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alas, whenever I search for a z/Series PoOP online in HTML/Book format as opposed to PDF, I conclude that some department within IBM thinks of DCF only in the past tense. Has PoOP authoring abandoned DCF for a competing tool? I'm not sure why you're tying book format to DCF. DCF is rarely used with System z publications, as book maintenence and formatting were moved to workstations years ago. The tools can produce a variety of output formats, depending on the requirement. Alan Altmark IBM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DCF (was Re: System z10 announcement (in English))
Alan Altmark wrote: I'm not sure why you're tying book format to DCF. DCF is rarely used with System z publications, as book maintenence and formatting were moved to workstations years ago. The tools can produce a variety of output formats, depending on the requirement. What software do they use? -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DCF (was Re: System z10 announcement (in English))
Edward Jaffe wrote: What software do they use? It's a mixture of internal tools and some commercially-available SGML workstation products. I don't think the details are confidential, but I don't know them beyond what I just said. I briefly looked into using the workbench some time ago. Bob Wright - MVS Service Aids -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DCF (was Re: System z10 announcement (in English))
In a message dated 3/5/2008 1:17:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: workstation products. I don't think the details are confidential, but I don't know them beyond what I just said. I briefly looked into using the workbench some time ago. But isn't the z/OS Book Mangler stuff still in DCF format and authorizes itself for printing? **It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf000301) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
DCF (was Re: System z10 announcement (in English))
Would you guys stop talking about DCF (Document Composition Facility, 5748-XX9) a.k.a. Script in the past tense? It is still available for z/OS, z/VM, and z/VSE. http://www.infoprintsolutionscompany.com/internet/wwsites.nsf/vwwebpublished/dcfhome_z_us --Roger -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: DCF (was Re: System z10 announcement (in English))
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 18:26:32 -0700, Roger Bolan wrote: Would you guys stop talking about DCF (Document Composition Facility, 5748-XX9) a.k.a. Script in the past tense? It is still available for z/OS, z/VM, and z/VSE. http://www.infoprintsolutionscompany.com/internet/wwsites.nsf/vwwebpublished/dcfhome_z_us Alas, whenever I search for a z/Series PoOP online in HTML/Book format as opposed to PDF, I conclude that some department within IBM thinks of DCF only in the past tense. Has PoOP authoring abandoned DCF for a competing tool? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 02/29/2008 at 12:23 PM, McKown, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I guess because I prefer content over form. I found that I had more control over form with DCF et al; the WYSIAYG software showed me the current text layout instead of the markup and left me guessing as to what would happen if I changed or moved text. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 10:57:58 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 02/26/2008 at 12:55 PM, McKown, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I'd hate to do word processing on z/OS Why? And if you want WYSIWYG, you can get it as easily under Linux as under windoze. (remember DW/370? Yes. I also remember DCF, BookMaster and BookManager BUILD. I'd take them over the WYSIAYG software any time. I have to agree with John here. Although not zOS I used to use Lotus 1-2-3 and Wordperfect under VM and they were so difficult to use. Script was far easier and when I worked out how to embed GIF files (convert them to ADMGDF) then documents looked very good. Seb -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 02/29/2008 at 05:47 AM, Sebastian Welton [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I have to agree with John here. Although not zOS I used to use Lotus 1-2-3 and Wordperfect under VM and they were so difficult to use. Script was far easier and when I worked out how to embed GIF files (convert them to ADMGDF) then documents looked very good. I was the one advocating Script for word processing, not John. If IBM ever ports the products to Linux or OS/2, I'll start using them at home. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
Use the freely available B2H - if you can use the intermediate HTML it generates. I use it all the time - but only for creating HTML to display in Firefox. Martin Martin Packer Performance Consultant IBM United Kingdom Ltd +44-20-8832-5167 +44-7802-245-584 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 11:58 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: System z10 announcement (in English) In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 02/29/2008 at 05:47 AM, Sebastian Welton [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I have to agree with John here. Although not zOS I used to use Lotus 1-2-3 and Wordperfect under VM and they were so difficult to use. Script was far easier and when I worked out how to embed GIF files (convert them to ADMGDF) then documents looked very good. I was the one advocating Script for word processing, not John. If IBM ever ports the products to Linux or OS/2, I'll start using them at home. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT I agree that I really liked Script (aka DCF). I actually prefer it to the ubiquitous WYSIWYG type word processing. But then, I like document processing, not word processing. I guess because I prefer content over form. There is definitely a difference. LyX is fairly good under Linux. I have also used Scribus on Linux. But, I admit that I use OpenOffice Writer more than either. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Shmuel Metz , Seymour J.) writes: I was the one advocating Script for word processing, not John. If IBM ever ports the products to Linux or OS/2, I'll start using them at home. original script was done at the science center http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#545tech for (cp67) cms, in the mid-60s ... carry over from ctss application ... used run-off like dot commands (i may even still have an old, hardcopy script manual in a box someplace). reference to the CTSS command http://web.mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/CC-244.html gml was invented at the science center in 1969 (g, m, and l are initials of the last names of the three people involved) and a decade or so later went thru the international standardization process for sgml http://xml.coverpages.org/sgmlhist0.html http://www.sgmlsource.com/history/roots.htm other post posts mentioning gml, sgml, etc http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#sgml gml tag processing had been added to script ... and for quite some time ... you could find documents that contained a mixture of dot formating commands and gml tags. the cp67 and vm370 documents were done with script ... and its use perculated into the rest of the company. one of the first such use was for principles of operation ... which had two flavors ... that could be controlled with cms command line option ... producing either the full architecture manual or the principles of operation subset. univ. of waterloo did a lot of vm370/cms based stuff ... including a script clone ... which found its way to a number of customer installations ... the following discusses the evolution at cern from sgml into html: http://infomesh.net/html/history/early and cern sister lab, SLAC had the first webserver outside of europe, on the slac/vm system http://www.slac.stanford.edu/history/earlyweb/history.shtml waterloo script page http://csg.uwaterloo.ca/sdtp/watscr.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 02/26/2008 at 12:55 PM, McKown, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I'd hate to do word processing on z/OS Why? And if you want WYSIWYG, you can get it as easily under Linux as under windoze. (remember DW/370? Yes. I also remember DCF, BookMaster and BookManager BUILD. I'd take them over the WYSIAYG software any time. I wish that TSO could do some of the things that the UNIX shell can do. And I wish that the various Unix shells could do what TSO can do. And I wish that ISPF and XEDIT could each do what the other does. In many cases, you can't do a high-low-equal comparison between platforms because each has something that the other is missing. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
System z10 announcement (in English)
http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias? infotype=ANsubtype=CAhtmlfid=897/ENUS108-154appname=USN -- Tom Schmidt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
Nice green stripe. Big page only 1 Meg. Interesting. HiperDispatch ... way overdue. 16 Gig HSA. anything else of interest ??? ... :0) Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:05:16 +1000, Shane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nice green stripe. Big page only 1 Meg. Interesting. HiperDispatch ... way overdue. 16 Gig HSA. anything else of interest ??? ... :0) Curiously missing today is a new z/VM announcement or preview. But there is some interesting foreshadowing for what could be z/VM v6.2 with the Statement of General Direction section regarding the to-be-announced z/VM LPAR mode... it looks like HiperDispatch and z/VM vN.R may become rather cozy. I'm surprised by the only 1 Meg. Big page delivery, too. Many competitive OS's support larger 'big page' sizes... even AIX allows for much bigger pages, doesn't it? (ISTR 16MB) -- Tom Schmidt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
Shane wrote: Nice green stripe. Big page only 1 Meg. Interesting. HiperDispatch ... way overdue. 16 Gig HSA. anything else of interest ??? ... :0) There is no ETR feature listed.. so I presume this is STP only.. Roy -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
No, ETR comes by default in z10. Marian Gasparovic IBM Slovakia On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Roy Hewitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shane wrote: Nice green stripe. Big page only 1 Meg. Interesting. HiperDispatch ... way overdue. 16 Gig HSA. anything else of interest ??? ... :0) There is no ETR feature listed.. so I presume this is STP only.. Roy -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:05:16 +1000, Shane wrote: anything else of interest ??? ... :0) AutoIPL! (At last!) AutoIPL support will provide the capability to request that the system automatically IPL stand-alone dump, z/OS, or both, when a disabled wait state is requested by a system component. This function is designed to be under the control of new parmlib parameters and a new Wait State Action Table (WSAT); together, they specify the actions, if any, to be taken for various disabled wait states. In a sysplex environment, the Sysplex Failure Manager (SFM) policy can result in actions that load disabled wait states on systems to be partitioned out of the sysplex, which can also trigger AutoIPL processing. New options on the VARY XCF operator command will allow you to request a SADMP, z/OS IPL, or both, after the indicated system has been removed from the sysplex. AutoIPL capability is intended to help you achieve faster failure data capture and recovery after system failures. -- Tom Schmidt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:05:16 +1000, Shane wrote: Nice green stripe. Big page only 1 Meg. Interesting. ... anything else of interest ??? ... :0) Hmm... is it interesting that it doesn't do Windows Server (yet)? -- Tom Schmidt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Schmidt Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:32 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: System z10 announcement (in English) On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:05:16 +1000, Shane wrote: Nice green stripe. Big page only 1 Meg. Interesting. ... anything else of interest ??? ... :0) Hmm... is it interesting that it doesn't do Windows Server (yet)? -- Tom Schmidt [shudder] From what I've read, you can run Windows on a zArch machine using the BOCHS emulation code. Now, why would I want to put the world's least reliable OS onto the world's most reliable hardware? -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
McKown, John wrote: snip [shudder] From what I've read, you can run Windows on a zArch machine using the BOCHS emulation code. Now, why would I want to put the world's least reliable OS onto the world's most reliable hardware? -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology Any sane person wouldn't, but by definition that excludes PHB's. :-) -- Mark Jacobs Time Customer Service Tampa, FL The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise to the occasion. We cannot escape history. We will be remembered in spite of ourselves. The fiery trial through which we pass will light us down in honor or dishonor, to the last generation. Abraham Lincoln -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Jacobs Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:40 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: System z10 announcement (in English) McKown, John wrote: snip [shudder] From what I've read, you can run Windows on a zArch machine using the BOCHS emulation code. Now, why would I want to put the world's least reliable OS onto the world's most reliable hardware? -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology Any sane person wouldn't, but by definition that excludes PHB's. :-) -- Mark Jacobs Perhaps so! [grin} Our new head of Open Systems is said to be an AIX bigot. I've heard it said that he wants to replace as many Windows servers (Intel) with AIX servers (pSeries) as possible. Well, it's a start. I've also heard that he would prefer that the main AIX sysadmins be the z/OS people (us'ns) and not the current MCSEs. But that's just rumor. Supposedly he likes our parannoid attitude about doing things that might result in an outage. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
SV: System z10 announcement (in English)
By the same reason You have to install a new version of Windows on Your new, powerfull PC: - To obliterate any progress in hardware performance ! Thomas _ Thomas Berg Specialist IT Utveckling Swedbank AB (Publ) -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] För McKown, John Skickat: den 26 februari 2008 18:37 Till: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Ämne: Re: System z10 announcement (in English) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Schmidt Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:32 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: System z10 announcement (in English) On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:05:16 +1000, Shane wrote: Nice green stripe. Big page only 1 Meg. Interesting. ... anything else of interest ??? ... :0) Hmm... is it interesting that it doesn't do Windows Server (yet)? -- Tom Schmidt [shudder] From what I've read, you can run Windows on a zArch machine using the BOCHS emulation code. Now, why would I want to put the world's least reliable OS onto the world's most reliable hardware? -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
John, Sounds like things are looking up for you! snip Perhaps so! [grin} Our new head of Open Systems is said to be an AIX bigot. I've heard it said that he wants to replace as many Windows servers (Intel) with AIX servers (pSeries) as possible. Well, it's a start. I've also heard that he would prefer that the main AIX sysadmins be the z/OS people (us'ns) and not the current MCSEs. But that's just rumor. Supposedly he likes our parannoid attitude about doing things that might result in an outage. /snip -- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:37:02 -0600, McKown, John wrote: -Original Message- On Behalf Of Tom Schmidt Subject: Re: System z10 announcement (in English) On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:05:16 +1000, Shane wrote: Nice green stripe. Big page only 1 Meg. Interesting. ... anything else of interest ??? ... :0) Hmm... is it interesting that it doesn't do Windows Server (yet)? -- Tom Schmidt [shudder] From what I've read, you can run Windows on a zArch machine using the BOCHS emulation code. Now, why would I want to put the world's least reliable OS onto the world's most reliable hardware? Funny you should ask. Maybe because many of the Windows (Server) outages had to do with non-parity memory? Or because of the memory protection schemes used (or not) on other hardware? Or because it blends in nicely with that whole green stripe thing on the front of the z10 box??? (I don't see IBM devouring its own children with the z10 announcement - AIX and pSeries boxen seem safe to buy (for now); I see the z10 attempting to make advances on the HP and Sun boxen. Solaris can be run on the z9 but I'm not at all sure there's anything worth keeping in HP-xX, is there?) -- Tom Schmidt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
Good ideas on both counts. AIX is good stuff, and so is pSeries. Jon snip Our new head of Open Systems is said to be an AIX bigot. I've heard it said that he wants to replace as many Windows servers (Intel) with AIX servers (pSeries) as possible. Well, it's a start. I've also heard that he would prefer that the main AIX sysadmins be the z/OS people (us'ns) and not the current MCSEs. snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:00:33 -0600, Staller, Allan wrote: John, Sounds like things are looking up for you! It seems as if the longevity of the managers at John's shop is about 12-18 months (about the life of a typical CIO). Give this guy some time and he'll be out of there, too. Right, John? -- Tom Schmidt -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Brock Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 12:41 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: System z10 announcement (in English) Good ideas on both counts. AIX is good stuff, and so is pSeries. Jon Good to hear. I know nothing about either. My UNIX background is 100% Linux on my machines at home. Oh, and z/OS UNIX. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Schmidt Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 12:42 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: System z10 announcement (in English) On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:00:33 -0600, Staller, Allan wrote: John, Sounds like things are looking up for you! It seems as if the longevity of the managers at John's shop is about 12-18 months (about the life of a typical CIO). Give this guy some time and he'll be out of there, too. Right, John? -- Tom Schmidt I have no idea. We have had a fast turnover recently (last 3 CIOs and staff only lasted about 12-18 month, each). I just wish that we'd get people with experience in multiple environment who are not fanatic about any of them. I, personally, despise Windows. But there may be a place for it. I'd hate to do word processing on z/OS (remember DW/370? [shudder]). I love Linux for interactive work. I wish that TSO could do some of the things that the UNIX shell can do. I've looked at the iSeries and i5/OS. Now that is a nice looking system! But I am not aware of __ANYTHING__ that can match z/OS for doing repetitive, batch oriented work. NOTHING. But maybe I'm just ignorant. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
Because my shop has a small number of Linux or Unix servers to take advantage of server consolidation and z/VM virtualization. And a couple thousand cubic feet of Window$ servers that are overwhelming the environmentals in a room the used to hold a 3090-400j, a 3081, and a lot of 3390 and 3380s. But, all the damn software is Windows based. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of McKown, John Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:37 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: System z10 announcement (in English) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Schmidt Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:32 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: System z10 announcement (in English) On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:05:16 +1000, Shane wrote: Nice green stripe. Big page only 1 Meg. Interesting. ... anything else of interest ??? ... :0) Hmm... is it interesting that it doesn't do Windows Server (yet)? -- Tom Schmidt [shudder] From what I've read, you can run Windows on a zArch machine using the BOCHS emulation code. Now, why would I want to put the world's least reliable OS onto the world's most reliable hardware? -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
If it's Microsoft .NET stuff it should be possible to run it on System z either using Mono (http://www.mono-project.com) (on Linux on z, for example SLES 9) or using software from Mainsoft (http://www.mainsoft.com/solutions/serverconsolidation.aspx) (on WebSphere Application Server for z/OS or for Linux on z). Ideally you would also begin a transition away from .NET development at the same time, but you don't have to throw it away cold turkey. - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: System z10 announcement (in English)
Except that the developers are all .NET happy right now, and the longer term is some manner of ERP. (Banner, Peoplesoft, etc.) They looked at mono a couple years ago, it wasn't ready then. It's very hard to get the powers that be to revisit things :) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Sipples Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 10:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: System z10 announcement (in English) If it's Microsoft .NET stuff it should be possible to run it on System z either using Mono (http://www.mono-project.com) (on Linux on z, for example SLES 9) or using software from Mainsoft (http://www.mainsoft.com/solutions/serverconsolidation.aspx) (on WebSphere Application Server for z/OS or for Linux on z). Ideally you would also begin a transition away from .NET development at the same time, but you don't have to throw it away cold turkey. - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
