Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 15:22:26 -0400, Dave Barry dba...@ups.com wrote: ... IMHO, feature-by-feature comparisons are less important than the total solution. It depends on how the performance analyst's role is defined in your organization. ... I'd say that feature-by-feature comparisons are VERY important if the you-bet-your-future features are either missing or are too difficult to use in some of the products. The total solution is surely the way to go if you are starting from scratch, but if you are contemplating switching products and certain features are mission-critical for your current environment you had better do feature-by-feature comparisons. We went through a sucession of monitor products. I think our MVS folks were pretty much ok with all 3 products, but our CICS / DB2 / MQ people were essentially flying blind for a year or so while we were on the 2nd of the 3 products. I don't know if the middle product simply didn't have the needed features or if it just took so much customization that the features were not usable. Our shop junked it and went to a 3rd that provided the needed features. I'm not supposed to make any statement that might be construed an endorsing (or unendorsing) a product, so I won't. But if you feel like assuming the 1st product as TMON, the 2nd was OMEGAMON, and the 3rd was SysView, I won't argue. Pat O'Keefe -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Yogs, First thing I would stress is that there is no such thing as Omegamon. There are three distinct-but-related product FAMILIES: Omegamon (classic) Omegamon II Omegamon XE Second thing I would stress is the need for a flexible, uniform, integrated set of monitors. Each software package has its better and worse points, which I would be glad to discuss individually if you're interested. IMHO, feature-by-feature comparisons are less important than the total solution. It depends on how the performance analyst's role is defined in your organization. db -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Yogeetha balasubramanian Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:41 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison Hello there !! We are moving from TMON to OMEGAMON . Can someone tell me the difference from your experience between TMON and OMEGAMON that need to be considered ? We are collecting this information Which do you think is a better option. I felt OMEGAMON/CICS got a user friendly interface. Regards Yogs CICS Systems Programmer -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
First of all this is the opinion of myself and does not necessarily represent the views of my company. I have been at two shops which converted to Omegamon from something else. At the one, we converted from TMON. Even before we got fully converted, it was found by the CICS Group that the number of keystrokes required to solve a CICS problem was 12 times greater than TMON using Omegamon. There were monitors in TMON which had no duplicates in Omegamon such as TCPIP and Websphere. This company has recently converted off of Omegamon to another product. The 2nd shop also converted off of another product to Omegamon. After 3 frustrating years of trying to get Omegamon to work (it seemed to be a fix or repair daily situation), they too have converted to another product. They also found that Omegamon was going to take 3 full time people just to do the customization of Omegagmon and maintain it. ___ Jim Petersen MVS - Lead Systems Engineer Home Depot Technology Center 1300 Park Center Drive, Austin, TX 78753 www.homedepot.com email:jim_peter...@homedepot.com 512-977-2615 direct 210-977-2930 fax 210-859-9887 cell phone -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Yogeetha balasubramanian Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 7:41 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison Hello there !! We are moving from TMON to OMEGAMON . Can someone tell me the difference from your experience between TMON and OMEGAMON that need to be considered ? We are collecting this information Which do you think is a better option. I felt OMEGAMON/CICS got a user friendly interface. Regards Yogs CICS Systems Programmer -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html - The information contained in this e-mail and any attached documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been sent to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Don't ask why, but we have both Omegamon and Tmon. When we first replaced Omegamon with Tmon, I decided that I liked Omegamon better. Now that we have both of them back, I hardly ever use Omegamon, just Tmon. Tmon is just easier to use, especially for historical data. Although to be fair, I have not really tried out or looked at the new features of Omegamon. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Petersen, Jim Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 9:44 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison First of all this is the opinion of myself and does not necessarily represent the views of my company. I have been at two shops which converted to Omegamon from something else. At the one, we converted from TMON. Even before we got fully converted, it was found by the CICS Group that the number of keystrokes required to solve a CICS problem was 12 times greater than TMON using Omegamon. There were monitors in TMON which had no duplicates in Omegamon such as TCPIP and Websphere. This company has recently converted off of Omegamon to another product. The 2nd shop also converted off of another product to Omegamon. After 3 frustrating years of trying to get Omegamon to work (it seemed to be a fix or repair daily situation), they too have converted to another product. They also found that Omegamon was going to take 3 full time people just to do the customization of Omegagmon and maintain it. ___ Jim Petersen MVS - Lead Systems Engineer Home Depot Technology Center 1300 Park Center Drive, Austin, TX 78753 www.homedepot.com email:jim_peter...@homedepot.com 512-977-2615 direct 210-977-2930 fax 210-859-9887 cell phone -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Yogeetha balasubramanian Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 7:41 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison Hello there !! We are moving from TMON to OMEGAMON . Can someone tell me the difference from your experience between TMON and OMEGAMON that need to be considered ? We are collecting this information Which do you think is a better option. I felt OMEGAMON/CICS got a user friendly interface. Regards Yogs CICS Systems Programmer -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html - The information contained in this e-mail and any attached documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been sent to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Petersen, Jim . . .. They also found that Omegamon was going to take 3 full time people just to do the customization of Omegagmon and maintain it. ^ Freudian slip? --| :-) -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
When we were looking at monitors we brought in Omegamon, TMON, and I think BMC. Omegamon sent people onsite to do the install which took several days to install and customization several days more. TMON sent tapes and documentation. I had it installed customized and up and running in one day. We never looked back. Jerry -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Petersen, Jim . . .. They also found that Omegamon was going to take 3 full time people just to do the customization of Omegagmon and maintain it. ^ Freudian slip? --| :-) Maybe not, John... ;-) -- Rick -- Remember that if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
OMEGAMON and distributed servers: OMEGAMON classic and OMEGAMON II 3270 applications do not require any distributed installs. OMEGAMON XE and DE use a browser to provide a single GUI for mainframe, distributed, Middleware, Systems Workload automation. This GUI is optional, but recommended, and requires a distributed server. This server can be run on Linux on zSeries (IFLs) or on Unix (AIX, HP/UX, Solaris) or Windows. As pointed out earlier MAINVIEW supports its browser and multi-system views from a z/OS based server. OMEGAMON DE includes OMEGAVIEW 3270 which allows for multiple LPAR views. But the browser interface is much more powerfull in that it allows for middleware and distributed to also be viewed for an Enterprise view of business services impact. Some customers view distributed servers as a benefit, they like to offload expensive z/OS MIPS/ MSUs to inexpensive distributed or Linux on zSeries. The Hub TEMS that many of you have on z/OS can be migrated to Linux on zSeries, Unix or Windows and still use LDAP to RACF. If you really want multi-system view and don't have or want to have a distributed box, there is sample code on IBM.com OPAL that allows the browser to directly connect to the z/OS TEMS. This code does provide multi-system views, but is not nearly as robust as the supported code in the Tivoli Enterprise Portal Server (TEPS). For those of you with TBSM, the current version also includes the Tivoli Integration Portal (TIP) which can access OMEGAMON XE data w/o the TEPS. Here is a sample web browser (no applets downloaded) SOAP application on OPAL that provides multiple subsystems on a single screen with access to any data that is in XE. This application returns multiple systems data with subsecond response. Sample application is OMEGAMON XE for z/OS via Web browser IE or Mozilla. WebITM v1.0 A Web Based Demonstration Application using IBM Tivoli Monitoring V6.1 SOAP Services, On OPAL site; http://catalog.lotus.com/wps/portal/topal/results?catalog.c=catalog.searchTerms=IBM+Tivoli+Monitoring+V6.1+SOAP+ServicesgoButton.x=0goButton.y=0catalog.catalogName=Tivoli+OPALcatalog.start=0 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Joe, We were told by IBMers that some views were only available from the browser using zLinux. I believe this was views of multiple LPARs. With Mainview you can logon one session at view multiple LPARs and zOS,CICS DB2. While with Omeagmon you could use the browser or logon on multiple times. Gray -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Joseph H Winterton Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 12:16 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison Kees: ...Or do you mean to say, that we can have this all on z/OS and do not *need* any linux/aix/win/x86 platform? Yes Thank you, I am talking about running OMEGAMON XE, CUA and Classic as it runs today on z/OS. You can continue in the future with no need to require the linux/aid/win/x86 platforms. Does this help? Thanks Gray Maddry Operations System Specialist State of North Carolina Office of Information Technology Services 919-754-6434 Office 919-398-8639 Cell 919-850-2854 Fax 919-754-6000 ITS Service Desk gray.mad...@its.nc.gov http://www.its.state.nc.us E-mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties by authorized state officials -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Joseph H Winterton jose...@us.ibm.com wrote in message news:ofcfd6d61b.379dbd00-on86257577.0058845a-85257577.00595...@us.ibm.c om... Kees: ...Or do you mean to say, that we can have this all on z/OS and do not *need* any linux/aix/win/x86 platform? Yes Thank you, I am talking about running OMEGAMON XE, CUA and Classic as it runs today on z/OS. You can continue in the future with no need to require the linux/aid/win/x86 platforms. Does this help? Thanks Joe Winterton Joe, Yes, because this is what I already thouhgt. No, because for the Tep functionality, I still need a linux etc. platform, I hoped you meant to say something else. The 3270 interface is so very 80's compared to the Tivoli platform, but even compared to what Mainview produces already for decades on 3270 screens : they have nicely customizable (better than Omegamon) views and screens (like a workspace) and good 3290G graphics. Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Dave Kopischke dgkopisc...@oppenheimerfunds.com wrote in message news:listserv%200903111658414203.0...@bama.ua.edu... On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:50:41 -0400, Joseph H Winterton wrote: I do have to respond to part of this one as OMEGAMON XE for z/OS 4.2.0 which went GA on 3/6/2009 does exploit the zIIP processor for collection. Should the listserver be used to bake off these products? Game on ! Just for my understanding of specialized English terms: what should to bake off mean here? Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
And I am stuck with Omegamon... for those who complain about the copying of TKAN* to RKAN* look at using the SMP Shared RTE setup. ICAT is improving hehehe.the BATCH process is working better all the time I should know 9 products, 16 Run Time Enivironments (RTEs) with 14 of those remote to the ICAT local systems. And I do 2-3 complete RTE rebuild every year. Because I have never been comfortable with an incremental update for the remote RTEs. And I was complaining to CANDLE in Sydney about CICAT over 15 years ago. (How's that for vendor allegiance!) On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:50:40 +1000, Shane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: On Wed, 2009-03-11 at 17:03 -0500, Mark Zelden wrote: Should the listserver be used to bake off these products? I sure hope not. But I think it's perfectly fine to correct misinformation and let people know who to contact or where to go for more information. And ... vendor allegiances are clearly enunciated. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Kees, Compare is probably as close as you will get. Bob -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 3:48 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison Dave Kopischke dgkopisc...@oppenheimerfunds.com wrote in message news:listserv%200903111658414203.0...@bama.ua.edu... On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:50:41 -0400, Joseph H Winterton wrote: I do have to respond to part of this one as OMEGAMON XE for z/OS 4.2.0 which went GA on 3/6/2009 does exploit the zIIP processor for collection. Should the listserver be used to bake off these products? Game on ! Just for my understanding of specialized English terms: what should to bake off mean here? Kees. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Bob, Thanks, didn't figure out that. Burn down was something that crossed my mind, partly because of Dave's sort of let the fight begin yell, but I found it unlikely. Kees. Richards, Robert B. robert.richa...@opm.gov wrote in message news:538523e4ec70a1409a113c09a9179a970b80c...@wdcvexvs2.opm.gov... Kees, Compare is probably as close as you will get. Bob -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 3:48 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison Dave Kopischke dgkopisc...@oppenheimerfunds.com wrote in message news:listserv%200903111658414203.0...@bama.ua.edu... On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:50:41 -0400, Joseph H Winterton wrote: I do have to respond to part of this one as OMEGAMON XE for z/OS 4.2.0 which went GA on 3/6/2009 does exploit the zIIP processor for collection. Should the listserver be used to bake off these products? Game on ! Just for my understanding of specialized English terms: what should to bake off mean here? Kees. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
I am surmising you have accepted the IBM Direction for Omegamon of requiring an installation such as yours being running Linux on z or have a separate AIX platform to run the monitoring and reporting component. Even though many of the products run standalone on z/OS today, I am told and continue to be told ALL the Omegamon products in the future will be upgraded to require either the zLinux or AIX for the monitor and reporting pieces. I still can not get IBM to explain why I would want to place such a dependency on my 99.999% z/OS systems on some z/VM + Linux or let alone an AIX system (which would need multiple ones). Then factor in DR planning into the equation. At least with the z/VM Linux solution it all runs on the same z-Box and can be recovered as a whole. But then operationally if I have to take down the z/VM Linux LPAR, then I will need another like LPAR take over. This sounds OK until you now have the monitoring data spread across 2 LPARS and you have lost the one historical view until you take steps to get it all back in one place. But then on one side I am told there is a 3270 Green screen just in case and then I hear whispers in my ear that I would not want to actually have to use it. But then maybe this is just the new 21st century way of thinking. If anyone has heard IBM changing their thinking, would definitely be interested. I indeed run the IBM IP Monitor (requiring zLinux) which I got N/C when NPM/IP V2 was a flaming disaster. Of course if you want an excuse for getting z/VM zLinux, Omegamon provides the ammo. jim -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Would make me want to put the candle out to have to run other non-ZOS LPARS to monitor my system! Daniel McLaughlin Z-Series Systems Programmer Information Communications Technology Crawford Company 4680 N. Royal Atlanta Tucker GA 30084 phone: 770-621-3256 fax: 770-621-3237 cell: 770-666-7969 email: daniel_mclaugh...@us.crawco.com web: www.crawfordandcompany.com Consider the environment before printing this message. This transmission is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This communication may contain information that is confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the named addressee, you are NOT authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this communication, its attachments or any part of them. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this communication from all computers. This communication does not form any contractual obligation on behalf of the sender, the sender's employer, or the employer's parent company, affiliates or subsidiaries. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
You may be glad if you that's your only concern. If you want to run Linux, you go to your Linux department. You are lucky if you can choose zLinux and are not forced to use blade Linux because of standardization rules. Then you want to do data warehousing. This can be local DB2 or other. You are lucky if you can choose local DB2 and are not forced to use Oracle because of standardization rules. Then you immediately have the next platform involved to monitor your 99.999% up z/OS. And then the Oracle department wants to do offline backups, which means your monitoring platform will be offline half an hour per day. Until a few months ago I thought the Mainview installation was complicated. Now I know it can always be more complicated. Kees. Daniel McLaughlin daniel_mclaugh...@us.crawco.com wrote in message news:ofa70c30b8.16459ad3-on85257577.00536930-85257577.00537...@us.crawc o.com... Would make me want to put the candle out to have to run other non-ZOS LPARS to monitor my system! Daniel McLaughlin Z-Series Systems Programmer Information Communications Technology Crawford Company 4680 N. Royal Atlanta Tucker GA 30084 phone: 770-621-3256 fax: 770-621-3237 cell: 770-666-7969 email: daniel_mclaugh...@us.crawco.com web: www.crawfordandcompany.com Consider the environment before printing this message. This transmission is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This communication may contain information that is confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If you are not the named addressee, you are NOT authorized to read, print, retain, copy or disseminate this communication, its attachments or any part of them. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this communication from all computers. This communication does not form any contractual obligation on behalf of the sender, the sender's employer, or the employer's parent company, affiliates or subsidiaries. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
For the Jim Marshall post: Jim: As the release manager for OMEGAMON, I can assure you we have no intention of removing support for native z/OS. Regrettably you have been the recipient of some bad information. It is true that we offer support for Linux on z or AIX for monitoring and reporting. This support is appealing for clients sensitive about CPU consumption on z/OS or for distributed clients looking for an alternative to Windows or x86 Linux, but this is an addition to the z/OS support we have, not a replacement. In fact, we continue to add support for native z/OS capabilities, such as running the Data Warehouse from DB2 on z/OS. And yes, this exploits zIIP specialty processors. Feel free to contact me directly outside the forum and I'd be happy to put you in touch with the appropriate individuals within IBM who can address your future roadmap concerns. Joe Winterton IBM Manager OMEGAMON - RD Phone 919-224-1328 T/L 687-1328 cellphone - 914-954-0483 - jose...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Joseph H Winterton jose...@us.ibm.com wrote in message news:ofa510eff5.56c8d471-on86257577.00556470-85257577.0055a...@us.ibm.c om... For the Jim Marshall post: Jim: As the release manager for OMEGAMON, I can assure you we have no intention of removing support for native z/OS. Regrettably you have been the recipient of some bad information. It is true that we offer support for Linux on z or AIX for monitoring and reporting. This support is appealing for clients sensitive about CPU consumption on z/OS or for distributed clients looking for an alternative to Windows or x86 Linux, but this is an addition to the z/OS support we have, not a replacement. In fact, we continue to add support for native z/OS capabilities, such as running the Data Warehouse from DB2 on z/OS. And yes, this exploits zIIP specialty processors. Feel free to contact me directly outside the forum and I'd be happy to put you in touch with the appropriate individuals within IBM who can address your future roadmap concerns. Joe Winterton Joe, Could you explain in a little more detail? What do you mean by the native z/OS support? Classic and Cua? The look and feel, functionality and user friendlyness of the Linux graphical monitor is much, much better than the old 3270 interfaces. Or do you mean to say, that we can have this all on z/OS and do not *need* any linux/aix/win/x86 platform? Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Kees: ...Or do you mean to say, that we can have this all on z/OS and do not *need* any linux/aix/win/x86 platform? Yes Thank you, I am talking about running OMEGAMON XE, CUA and Classic as it runs today on z/OS. You can continue in the future with no need to require the linux/aid/win/x86 platforms. Does this help? Thanks Joe Winterton IBM Manager OMEGAMON - RD Phone 919-224-1328 T/L 687-1328 cellphone - 914-954-0483 - jose...@us.ibm.com Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM kees.vern...@klm.com Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 03/12/2009 11:56 AM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu To IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu cc Subject Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison Joseph H Winterton jose...@us.ibm.com wrote in message news:ofa510eff5.56c8d471-on86257577.00556470-85257577.0055a...@us.ibm.c om... For the Jim Marshall post: Jim: As the release manager for OMEGAMON, I can assure you we have no intention of removing support for native z/OS. Regrettably you have been the recipient of some bad information. It is true that we offer support for Linux on z or AIX for monitoring and reporting. This support is appealing for clients sensitive about CPU consumption on z/OS or for distributed clients looking for an alternative to Windows or x86 Linux, but this is an addition to the z/OS support we have, not a replacement. In fact, we continue to add support for native z/OS capabilities, such as running the Data Warehouse from DB2 on z/OS. And yes, this exploits zIIP specialty processors. Feel free to contact me directly outside the forum and I'd be happy to put you in touch with the appropriate individuals within IBM who can address your future roadmap concerns. Joe Winterton Joe, Could you explain in a little more detail? What do you mean by the native z/OS support? Classic and Cua? The look and feel, functionality and user friendlyness of the Linux graphical monitor is much, much better than the old 3270 interfaces. Or do you mean to say, that we can have this all on z/OS and do not *need* any linux/aix/win/x86 platform? Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Good recommendation. I stand corrected about OMEGAMON providing the feature of offloading CP cycles to zIIPs. As of last week, OMEGAMON offloads their DASD collection processes to zIIP. But as others have indicated that offloading small percentages may actually increase the overall CP usage. With limited details about the percentages that OMEGAMON is now offloading, who is to say if this benefits anyone, except IBM. So as I stated before, a benchmark will clear things up and show you who really is trying to save $$ and deter buying additional hardware. If your interested in comparing MAINVIEW against your monitoring products, my contact information is provided. Oh, one last thing. I like playing games when I already know the outcome. Mark Rascoe BMC Software MAINVIEW Product Manager Work - (931) 438-9469 Cell – (931) 993-6731 mark_ras...@bmc.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
On 2009-03-11 08:43 to IBM-Main about Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison, Yogeetha balasubramanian sairamyog...@gmai...co.. wrote: [snip] Can someone tell me the difference from your experience between TMON and OMEGAMON that need to be considered ? [snip] Which do you think is a better option. [snip] Yogs : we're not XE yet but I don't expect much difference. Reports! (or lack thereof) - TMon: fully selectable customizable reports of the fields order you desire. I would *almost* compare them to FDReport. OmegaMon: canned only with limited selection capability. For example, we can't get the userId in the DB2 deadlock/time-outs report; only the correlation-id ie. CicsId-TransId, which is *no* help. We know there was a deadlock/time-out at x-time with y-table between DDF Cics but who? No idea. User-collectable data - TMon: provides an interface for collecting user specified data associated with each Cics transaction. Using the SAG exit, I was able to track each Natural object and provide an internal transaction trace. Using the reporting facility, I was able to list all the objects used with their CPU elapsed times on a daily/weekly/monthly/annual basis. I even provided a continual, top- 10 worst performers this year to the applications group. OmegaMon: none/*very* minimal. Ok, there *is* something for Adabas but we use DB2. We only see that the Natural nucleus was invoked (150k-220k times daily) as the transaction program. Our switch was $$ driven and, in my _personal_ opinion, we got what we paid for. -- signature = 6 lines follows -- Neil Duffee, Joe SysProg, U d'Ottawa, Ottawa, Ont, Canada telephone:1 613 562 5800 x4585 fax:1 613 562 5161 mailto:NDuffee of uOttawa.ca http:/ /aix1.uottawa.ca/ ~nduffee How *do* you plan for something like that? Guardian Bob, Reboot For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. Systems Programming: Guilty, until proven innocent John Norgauer 2004 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
But as others have indicated that offloading small percentages may actually increase the overall CP usage. We all know... As others have said... May increase... Yes, there is always overhead when one switches to another processor. And, yes, the reasons are understood. Without hard documentation, you are doing the same thing IBM used to do: sew FUD! What is this overhead? - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
OK- I'll try it again. First there is the issue of Capacity. When you add specialty engines to an LPAR, the LPAR's capacity acts almost like the n-way increase. So, if you have a 10-way, and add 2 zIIPs and 2 zAAPs, that LPAR now acts almost like a 14-way. That decrease your capacity by about 7%. But if you are not running your systems or footprint constantly at 100%, it may not be an issue. With today's z10s, you are best served for capacity and performance with about a 20-30% white space. Now, for performance, the overhead to switch from one processor to another is about 2-11%. 2% if you switch to a processor in the same core, 11% if it is another book. The processor cycles to move instructions and data in the Level 1, 1.5, and 2 caches is actually slower than on a z9. On z10s, the busier the engines are, the less throughput you are likely to get. Search IBM's WSC for a white paper by Gary King on running fast processors at 100% busy. But again, if you have that white space, it may not be an issue. If you can move 10% of your workload to specialty engines, the cost of an engine can be recouped in about 8-10 months. Generally, it is best to be able to offload about 20-25-30% of the GP to get your money's worth and not impact performance. Be aware your CPU time per transaction will go up anyway; while you throughput will increase. At that level, the potential to keep your software costs stable will be worth it. Please don't misconstrue this as being a negative. Specialty processors can be so worthwhile, if you plan properly and know what to expect. znor...@ca.com Director, Product Management -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 SYSN 01:01 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison But as others have indicated that offloading small percentages may actually increase the overall CP usage. We all know... As others have said... May increase... Yes, there is always overhead when one switches to another processor. And, yes, the reasons are understood. Without hard documentation, you are doing the same thing IBM used to do: sew FUD! What is this overhead? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Hello there !! We are moving from TMON to OMEGAMON . Can someone tell me the difference from your experience between TMON and OMEGAMON that need to be considered ? We are collecting this information Which do you think is a better option. I felt OMEGAMON/CICS got a user friendly interface. Regards Yogs CICS Systems Programmer -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
I can not tell you the differences, however, I will tell you that we have been moving to Omegamon for 3 years now and our applications department has found Omegamon lacking to the point that they have been able to keep TMON in house. IBM has not been able to correct the missing functions in Omegamon. Regards, Herman Stocker Technical Specialist -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Yogeetha balasubramanian Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:41 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison Hello there !! We are moving from TMON to OMEGAMON . Can someone tell me the difference from your experience between TMON and OMEGAMON that need to be considered ? We are collecting this information Which do you think is a better option. I felt OMEGAMON/CICS got a user friendly interface. Regards Yogs CICS Systems Programmer -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html - -- The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. The sender's employer is not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:11:23 +0530, Yogeetha balasubramanian sairamyog...@gmail.com wrote: Hello there !! We are moving from TMON to OMEGAMON . Can someone tell me the difference from your experience between TMON and OMEGAMON that need to be considered ? We are collecting this information Which do you think is a better option. I felt OMEGAMON/CICS got a user friendly interface. Regards Yogs CICS Systems Programmer Depending on your CICS transaction reporting requirements, TMON/CICS logs to a non-SMF source in compressed format (the data is run through a vendor-supplied utility to prep/uncompress for any post-processing reporting). Omegamon/CICS can log to SMF, creating a CMF-like SMF type 110 subtype 1 transaction record (I am unfamiliar whether Omegamon/CICS supports the new SMF 110 compressed format, introduced with CTS 3.2). I know that OMEGAMON provides some MCT customizations for enhanced WLM and clocks/counters data capture in the subtype 1, possibly for MQ, DB2 or your local DBMS (ADABAS). With your migration, you may find differences in CICS transaction data available with OMEGAMON as compared to TMON for CICS - no question though that post-processing the CICS transaction data will need to change. Scott Barry SBBWorks, Inc. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Yogeetha balasubramanian sairamyog...@gmail.com wrote in message news:cd427cf50903110541w4e662c16l2f8f29072949a...@mail.gmail.com... Hello there !! We are moving from TMON to OMEGAMON . Can someone tell me the difference from your experience between TMON and OMEGAMON that need to be considered ? We are collecting this information Which do you think is a better option. I felt OMEGAMON/CICS got a user friendly interface. Regards Yogs CICS Systems Programmer I am installing Omegamon at the moment (for the last 2 months and not finished yet). I won't bother you with my personal opinion about Omegamon, since this will cause an overflow of the group's spaceconsumption. However, the CICS component is not the worst of them all. Our CICS expert is satisfied with it. Tips: Select the 'optional' function to restart the monitoring within CICS when the Omegamon collecter is stop/started. Regulary check for fixes, because they still come (far too) often. Kees. ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
We went through this trial about 18 months ago. I can live with either from a functional perspective, BUT the real mess is the Omegamon install, and the number of hours(oops, I mean days or weeks). There are so many sets of libraries out there due to CICAT. You order Omegamon from Serverpac, easy, right? NOT. All that gets you is the TKAN* datasets. Still have to run CICAT, and it copies all the TKAN* datasets to RKAN*, which is a complete copy. Then it goes on and builds all the other support datasets, per lpar or environment. Then, what TMON can do in a handful of STC's, takes Omegamon 3 times as many STC's. Just too much overhead in my opinion. _ Dave Jousma Assistant Vice President, Mainframe Services david.jou...@53.com 1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI 49546 MD RSCB1G p 616.653.8429 f 616.653.8497 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:46 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison Yogeetha balasubramanian sairamyog...@gmail.com wrote in message news:cd427cf50903110541w4e662c16l2f8f29072949a...@mail.gmail.com... Hello there !! We are moving from TMON to OMEGAMON . Can someone tell me the difference from your experience between TMON and OMEGAMON that need to be considered ? We are collecting this information Which do you think is a better option. I felt OMEGAMON/CICS got a user friendly interface. Regards Yogs CICS Systems Programmer I am installing Omegamon at the moment (for the last 2 months and not finished yet). I won't bother you with my personal opinion about Omegamon, since this will cause an overflow of the group's spaceconsumption. However, the CICS component is not the worst of them all. Our CICS expert is satisfied with it. Tips: Select the 'optional' function to restart the monitoring within CICS when the Omegamon collecter is stop/started. Regulary check for fixes, because they still come (far too) often. This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Did you compare the CPU *consumption* of Tmon and Omegamon. We come from Mainview and the rise in CPU consumption is tremendous. Kees. Jousma, David david.jou...@53.com wrote in message news:a90766b5039c59409110c92d47216f5903332...@s1flokydce2k322.dm0001.in fo53.com... We went through this trial about 18 months ago. I can live with either from a functional perspective, BUT the real mess is the Omegamon install, and the number of hours(oops, I mean days or weeks). There are so many sets of libraries out there due to CICAT. You order Omegamon from Serverpac, easy, right? NOT. All that gets you is the TKAN* datasets. Still have to run CICAT, and it copies all the TKAN* datasets to RKAN*, which is a complete copy. Then it goes on and builds all the other support datasets, per lpar or environment. Then, what TMON can do in a handful of STC's, takes Omegamon 3 times as many STC's. Just too much overhead in my opinion. _ Dave Jousma Assistant Vice President, Mainframe Services david.jou...@53.com 1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI 49546 MD RSCB1G p 616.653.8429 f 616.653.8497 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:46 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison Yogeetha balasubramanian sairamyog...@gmail.com wrote in message news:cd427cf50903110541w4e662c16l2f8f29072949a...@mail.gmail.com... Hello there !! We are moving from TMON to OMEGAMON . Can someone tell me the difference from your experience between TMON and OMEGAMON that need to be considered ? We are collecting this information Which do you think is a better option. I felt OMEGAMON/CICS got a user friendly interface. Regards Yogs CICS Systems Programmer I am installing Omegamon at the moment (for the last 2 months and not finished yet). I won't bother you with my personal opinion about Omegamon, since this will cause an overflow of the group's spaceconsumption. However, the CICS component is not the worst of them all. Our CICS expert is satisfied with it. Tips: Select the 'optional' function to restart the monitoring within CICS when the Omegamon collecter is stop/started. Regulary check for fixes, because they still come (far too) often. This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html ** For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
I agree with you all thatOmegamon is not easy to be upgraded. I have personally done the Omegamon/CICS installation. The TKANMOD keeps varying and the settings that we need to do while upgrading really varies. For few things , i have never got the reason why from the performance guys. Also, we wont know the end result until during the change window, There is no sort of test that we can do for finding if it will work. And it has to be put in all the CICS regions in one shot which is never good system programming practice too. Regards Yogs On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Yogeetha balasubramanian sairamyog...@gmail.com wrote: Hello there !! We are moving from TMON to OMEGAMON . Can someone tell me the difference from your experience between TMON and OMEGAMON that need to be considered ? We are collecting this information Which do you think is a better option. I felt OMEGAMON/CICS got a user friendly interface. Regards Yogs CICS Systems Programmer -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Have you not consider CA SYSVIEW? Much easier to install. Much easier to maintain. Same functionality or better. Much less resource consumption. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jousma, David Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 SYSN 08:10 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison We went through this trial about 18 months ago. I can live with either from a functional perspective, BUT the real mess is the Omegamon install, and the number of hours(oops, I mean days or weeks). There are so many sets of libraries out there due to CICAT. You order Omegamon from Serverpac, easy, right? NOT. All that gets you is the TKAN* datasets. Still have to run CICAT, and it copies all the TKAN* datasets to RKAN*, which is a complete copy. Then it goes on and builds all the other support datasets, per lpar or environment. Then, what TMON can do in a handful of STC's, takes Omegamon 3 times as many STC's. Just too much overhead in my opinion. _ Dave Jousma Assistant Vice President, Mainframe Services david.jou...@53.com 1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI 49546 MD RSCB1G p 616.653.8429 f 616.653.8497 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Vernooy, C.P. - SPLXM Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:46 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison Yogeetha balasubramanian sairamyog...@gmail.com wrote in message news:cd427cf50903110541w4e662c16l2f8f29072949a...@mail.gmail.com... Hello there !! We are moving from TMON to OMEGAMON . Can someone tell me the difference from your experience between TMON and OMEGAMON that need to be considered ? We are collecting this information Which do you think is a better option. I felt OMEGAMON/CICS got a user friendly interface. Regards Yogs CICS Systems Programmer I am installing Omegamon at the moment (for the last 2 months and not finished yet). I won't bother you with my personal opinion about Omegamon, since this will cause an overflow of the group's spaceconsumption. However, the CICS component is not the worst of them all. Our CICS expert is satisfied with it. Tips: Select the 'optional' function to restart the monitoring within CICS when the Omegamon collecter is stop/started. Regulary check for fixes, because they still come (far too) often. This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
No we didn't. It was one of those lets convert to Omegamon because we can get it under our enterprise agreement situations. In the end, TMON still won out. Mostly because of the reasons I mentioned earlier. _ Dave Jousma Assistant Vice President, Mainframe Services david.jou...@53.com 1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI 49546 MD RSCB1G p 616.653.8429 f 616.653.8497 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Norman Hollander on DesertWiz Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:51 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison Have you not consider CA SYSVIEW? Much easier to install. Much easier to maintain. Same functionality or better. Much less resource consumption. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jousma, David Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 SYSN 08:10 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison We went through this trial about 18 months ago. I can live with either from a functional perspective, BUT the real mess is the Omegamon install, and the number of hours(oops, I mean days or weeks). There are so many sets of libraries out there due to CICAT. You order Omegamon from Serverpac, easy, right? NOT. All that gets you is the TKAN* datasets. Still have to run CICAT, and it copies all the TKAN* datasets to RKAN*, which is a complete copy. Then it goes on and builds all the other support datasets, per lpar or environment. Then, what TMON can do in a handful of STC's, takes Omegamon 3 times as many STC's. Just too much overhead in my opinion. This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Overhead concerns: RE: Did you compare the CPU *consumption* of TMON and OMEGAMON? We come from MAINVIEW and the rise in CPU consumption is tremendous. 1) OMEGAMON vs TMON - Numerous customers have migrated from TMON to OMEGAMON, on average they experience a 10% drop in CPU consumption in the CICS region. This can be measured with SMF records for entire address space, CICS shutdown stats or SMF110 average CPU for transactions. 2) OMEGAMON vs MAINVIEW - Several factors here; are you measuring internal subsystem overhead or external collector overhead. The external address space overhead is small fraction of the total overhead. You need to look at impact to subsystem plus external. The last time a customer reported this to me, we were 5% less in the CICS subsystem. We are also less in the IMS subsystem. If you are only concerned w/ external address space CPU and you are talking about OMEGAMON IMS, I suspect you have historical bottleneck enabled with DASD impact. MAINVIEW doesn't collect this and its extremely expensive. When customers disable this collection parm the external overhead is comparable to MAINVIEW. RE: What TMON can do in a handful of STC's, takes OMEGAMON 3 times as many STC's. Just too much overhead in my opinion. 1) The real concern is how much overhead the monitoring adds to the monitored subsystem, see above. CICS, IMS and DB2 monitors from all vendors increase the cpu in the subsystems, the question is who increases it less. This subsystem impact far exceeds the external address space, except for z/OS monitors. I haven't been concerned with the number of address spaces since I migrated off MVS/SP to XA. Additional address spaces have very little overhead associated with them, they provide the flexibility to have different dispatching priorities based on the criticality of the address spaces function, like if it not being dispatched could impact the monitored address space. RE: Does Omegamon/CICS support the new SMF 110 compressed format, introduced with CTS 3.2 ? Yes, OMEGAMON provided day 1 support for this. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
I hope you have enough horsepower to run either of them. If you have an ELA with CA, you can probably discus the same benefits. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jousma, David Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 SYSN 11:29 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison No we didn't. It was one of those lets convert to Omegamon because we can get it under our enterprise agreement situations. In the end, TMON still won out. Mostly because of the reasons I mentioned earlier. _ Dave Jousma Assistant Vice President, Mainframe Services david.jou...@53.com 1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI 49546 MD RSCB1G p 616.653.8429 f 616.653.8497 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Norman Hollander on DesertWiz Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:51 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison Have you not consider CA SYSVIEW? Much easier to install. Much easier to maintain. Same functionality or better. Much less resource consumption. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jousma, David Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 SYSN 08:10 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison We went through this trial about 18 months ago. I can live with either from a functional perspective, BUT the real mess is the Omegamon install, and the number of hours(oops, I mean days or weeks). There are so many sets of libraries out there due to CICAT. You order Omegamon from Serverpac, easy, right? NOT. All that gets you is the TKAN* datasets. Still have to run CICAT, and it copies all the TKAN* datasets to RKAN*, which is a complete copy. Then it goes on and builds all the other support datasets, per lpar or environment. Then, what TMON can do in a handful of STC's, takes Omegamon 3 times as many STC's. Just too much overhead in my opinion. This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Overhead concerns. Interesting how OMEGAMON is trying to compare the CPU overhead to MAINVIEW. From my last review of OMEGAMON features and capabilities, OMEGAMON does not exploit zIIPs and MAINVIEW does. In recent customer benchmarks (2009), I have seen where MAINVIEW was offloading more than 50% of its GP cycles to zIIPs. If you compare OMEGAMON and RMF against MAINVIEW and CMF, the number goes up even more. In the IMS arena, OMEGAMON is weak in the type of detailed data it collects, yet MAINVIEW uses the same or less CPU and provides much more detailed data to resolve the issue faster. If you like, I can prove my point. Anyone can talk about how efficient they are, but the reality comes in a quick benchmark. With a benchmark, you can see that MAINVIEW uses less CPU, it’s easier to install, configure and you get a powerful web browser without installing any software in your distributed environment. So, it’s your call. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Mark Rascoe (from BMC) wrote: Interesting how OMEGAMON is trying to compare the CPU overhead to MAINVIEW. From my last review of OMEGAMON features and capabilities... [snip] ... you can see that MAINVIEW uses less CPU, it’s easier to install, configure and you get a powerful web browser ... Well, at least you didn't refer to it asWorld Class! :-D -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
I do have to respond to part of this one as OMEGAMON XE for z/OS 4.2.0 which went GA on 3/6/2009 does exploit the zIIP processor for collection. Should the listserver be used to bake off these products? Joe Winterton IBM Manager OMEGAMON - RD Phone 919-224-1328 T/L 687-1328 cellphone - 914-954-0483 - jose...@us.ibm.com Mark Rascoe mark_ras...@bmc.com Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu 03/11/2009 05:04 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu To IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu cc Subject Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison Overhead concerns. Interesting how OMEGAMON is trying to compare the CPU overhead to MAINVIEW. From my last review of OMEGAMON features and capabilities, OMEGAMON does not exploit zIIPs and MAINVIEW does. In recent customer benchmarks (2009), I have seen where MAINVIEW was offloading more than 50% of its GP cycles to zIIPs. If you compare OMEGAMON and RMF against MAINVIEW and CMF, the number goes up even more. In the IMS arena, OMEGAMON is weak in the type of detailed data it collects, yet MAINVIEW uses the same or less CPU and provides much more detailed data to resolve the issue faster. If you like, I can prove my point. Anyone can talk about how efficient they are, but the reality comes in a quick benchmark. With a benchmark, you can see that MAINVIEW uses less CPU, it?s easier to install, configure and you get a powerful web browser without installing any software in your distributed environment. So, it?s your call. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:50:41 -0400, Joseph H Winterton wrote: I do have to respond to part of this one as OMEGAMON XE for z/OS 4.2.0 which went GA on 3/6/2009 does exploit the zIIP processor for collection. Should the listserver be used to bake off these products? Game on ! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:50:41 -0400, Joseph H Winterton jose...@us.ibm.com wrote: Should the listserver be used to bake off these products? I sure hope not. But I think it's perfectly fine to correct misinformation and let people know who to contact or where to go for more information. But that's only one person's opinion. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Just because there is a zIIP, should you zIIPify everything? Not to start a religious war, but what percent of what is going to a zIIP? Please remember, there is overhead to use specialty processors. So you'd better be able to offload 20-30% (IMHO). -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Kopischke Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 SYSN 02:59 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:50:41 -0400, Joseph H Winterton wrote: I do have to respond to part of this one as OMEGAMON XE for z/OS 4.2.0 which went GA on 3/6/2009 does exploit the zIIP processor for collection. Should the listserver be used to bake off these products? Game on ! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
On Wed, 2009-03-11 at 17:03 -0500, Mark Zelden wrote: Should the listserver be used to bake off these products? I sure hope not. But I think it's perfectly fine to correct misinformation and let people know who to contact or where to go for more information. And ... vendor allegiances are clearly enunciated. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
I believe we agree, Ed. :-) znor...@ca.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 SYSN 02:46 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison Mark Rascoe (from BMC) wrote: Interesting how OMEGAMON is trying to compare the CPU overhead to MAINVIEW. From my last review of OMEGAMON features and capabilities... [snip] ... you can see that MAINVIEW uses less CPU, it's easier to install, configure and you get a powerful web browser ... Well, at least you didn't refer to it asWorld Class! :-D -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
Just because there is a zIIP, should you zIIPify everything? I tend to any, and all! Not to start a religious war, but what percent of what is going to a zIIP? Please remember, there is overhead to use specialty processors. So you'd better be able to offload 20-30% (IMHO). What metrics/reports/support documents can you cite? Remember there is also overhead just for having more than on CP? How much more overhead is there to choose a zIIP (or a zAAp, for that matter)? And, what is that compared toi software cost savings? Enquiring minds want to know! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison
What metrics/reports/support documents can you cite? well- let's just say that offloading 80% of 2% on a GP may not get you much. Remember there is also overhead just for having more than on CP? How much more overhead is there to choose a zIIP (or a zAAp, for that matter)? depending on your hardware (number of books), there can be a 2-11% performance hit because you memory and/or your caches are in another core or book (both zIIP and zAAP). And, what is that compared toi software cost savings? Enquiring minds want to know! Offloading 10% will pay for the hardware in some number of months (8-10) My recommendation is 20-30% white space on the GPs to get your monies worth on the exercise and getting your software costs reduced (or rather, not go up). - znor...@ca.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Offload Processing (WAS: TMON with OMEGAMON Comparison)
What metrics/reports/support documents can you cite? well- let's just say that offloading 80% of 2% on a GP may not get you much. Who said anything about 2%? We're talking numbers big enough to save you money. Remember there is also overhead just for having more than on CP? How much more overhead is there to choose a zIIP (or a zAAp, for that matter)? depending on your hardware (number of books), there can be a 2-11% performance hit because you memory and/or your caches are in another core or book (both zIIP and zAAP). And, how much different is that from GP to GP processing switches? And, what is that compared ti software cost savings? Enquiring minds want to know! Offloading 10% will pay for the hardware in some number of months (8-10) And, doing more? My recommendation is 20-30% white space on the GPs to get your monies worth on the exercise Where did you get this metric? and getting your software costs reduced (or rather, not go up). That sounds pessimistic. I'm still waiting for you to cite something concrete. I've been involved in IFL/zIIP/zAAP evaluations. Remember that these specialty engines run at full-speed, rather than the knee-capped speeds of the GP's. So, while overhead exists, is it a a problem? And, is the performance hit an issue? - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
