Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
All literature about SCRT is posted on IBM pricing website, Al website and other doc issued from CMG as Italia from Ottaviani. Sure, a strong reporting monthly revised by using Al tools or others will be powerfull to adapt SCRT parameter's and to control well this process. A second way is to apply a relevant capacity palnning quaterly revised by integrating WLC a PSLC inside. More than Capacity Planner job is to add a new activity as Cost Planner to define the best plan. this approach will define a capacity cost planning by optimizing the sharing resources with a perfect design PR/SM. A next step could be to control WLC by using SoftCapping, Group Capcity Limit feature or our offer with AutoSoftCapping: a zCost Management product. Jacky Hofbauer - zCost Management - voice: +33240854810 - web: www.zcostmanagement.com - i...@zcostmanagement.com There are risks and costs to a program of action, but they are far less than the long-range risks and costs of comfortable inaction. John F. Kennedy -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
Let me clarify one thing about the ugly suggestion that I made to Patrick. There is a big difference between running the SCRT JCL to get a report and then ACTUALLY SUBMITTING IT. Having never tried it as I said, I did not know what would be produced. I never intended that Patrick actually *submit* a SCRT report that was run using *ALL for all his products. As for Al's comments below about the TsCs, I can assure you that IBM does indeed treat detected, but unlicensed, products as an order. Bob - Robert B. Richards(Bob) US Office of Personnel Management 1900 E Street NW Room: BH04L Washington, D.C. 20415 Phone: (202) 606-1195 Email: robert.richa...@opm.gov - -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Al Sherkow Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information I believe the fine print TsCs indicate that if you specify that a product runs on one LPAR or any LPARs of a machine for which it is not licensed that IBM may view that as an order for the products. Similarly, for products that do generate SMF89 data, if SCRT detects a product on a machine where it is not licensed, that is an order for the product. You can correct this after the fact, but it's better to read the reports and be sure they are what you expect. (LCS highlights the discovery of products running where they are not expected to be running based on your licenses and/or history of product usage). This is the basis of Pat's original question. You are supposed to setup the NO89 parameters to reflect in which LPARs you actually use the NO89 products. This is why LCS detects this, to help sites properly report their usage to IBM. Al Sherkow, I/S Management Strategies, Ltd. Consulting Expertise on Capacity Planning, Performance Tuning, WLC, LPARs, IRD and LCS Software Seminars on IBM SW Pricing, LPARs, and IRD Voice: +1 414 332-3062 Web: www.sherkow.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
Bob, I understood what you meant. I was basically trying to get a feel for what the different options implied, *none, *all, qualifying LPARs. My intention all along has been to get this right. There's potentially too much at stake here to get it wrong given the number of machines and LPARs. I've got to the point where I now know what machines and now what LPARs have the NO89 software and am preparing to turn this loose on our environment. And I've taken Mark's suggestion to ensure I'm using the Hardware LPAR name with regards to the qualifying products and their relative LPARs. As it turned out I did not take as many hits on the NO89's as I thought I might to a point that it is somewhat manageable but that's kind of a relative term. I'll give you a call. --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Richards, Robert B. robert.richa...@opm.gov wrote: From: Richards, Robert B. robert.richa...@opm.gov Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 10:43 AM Let me clarify one thing about the ugly suggestion that I made to Patrick. There is a big difference between running the SCRT JCL to get a report and then ACTUALLY SUBMITTING IT. Having never tried it as I said, I did not know what would be produced. I never intended that Patrick actually *submit* a SCRT report that was run using *ALL for all his products. As for Al's comments below about the TsCs, I can assure you that IBM does indeed treat detected, but unlicensed, products as an order. Bob - Robert B. Richards (Bob) US Office of Personnel Management 1900 E Street NW Room: BH04L Washington, D.C. 20415 Phone: (202) 606-1195 Email: robert.richa...@opm.gov - -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Al Sherkow Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information I believe the fine print TsCs indicate that if you specify that a product runs on one LPAR or any LPARs of a machine for which it is not licensed that IBM may view that as an order for the products. Similarly, for products that do generate SMF89 data, if SCRT detects a product on a machine where it is not licensed, that is an order for the product. You can correct this after the fact, but it's better to read the reports and be sure they are what you expect. (LCS highlights the discovery of products running where they are not expected to be running based on your licenses and/or history of product usage). This is the basis of Pat's original question. You are supposed to setup the NO89 parameters to reflect in which LPARs you actually use the NO89 products. This is why LCS detects this, to help sites properly report their usage to IBM. Al Sherkow, I/S Management Strategies, Ltd. Consulting Expertise on Capacity Planning, Performance Tuning, WLC, LPARs, IRD and LCS Software Seminars on IBM SW Pricing, LPARs, and IRD Voice: +1 414 332-3062 Web: www.sherkow.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
With respect, don't go there. I have -no- complaints about working with IBM, but it is a s-l-o-w, time consuming process. IMHO it is well worth the effort to get it right. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Joel Wolpert Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 6:19 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information Correction: IBM is supposed to know what products you have. But even if you have *ALL for NO89 products that you do NOT have licenses to you can work with IBM to correct the billing. NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
Pat, A VERY ugly suggestion. Turn them all on with *ALL* and see what does not report anything. By the way, I have never tried this suggestion so I am not sure it is of any value except what you are paying me for it. Or, get Al's software. :-) Bob - -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:38 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information I'm currently working with/on SCRT for quite a few physical machines and about triple the amount of LPARs. Is there any easy way for me to find out what products might be on what LPARs for inclusion in the NO89 section? I've got the process working fine but now need to tailor the NO89 section for validity. Or do I just need to read the fine book some more. Al, help!? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
Hey Bob, Hope all's well. Well, I actually thought about that, just coding *all, and will probably try it to see what happens. I'm currently running with *none for everything while I shake it out for all the machines and LPAR's. I gotta get with the billing guy and my boss to see how they want to handle this part. Nothings easy, especially when you have a large number of LPAR's to deal with. Al's great and has helped in the past but I doubt that we'll buy more software. I already checked and we don't have SoftAudit or whatever Mark suggested, IBM's re-branded name. So I'll probably be flying by the seat of my pants. Hope the landing isn't too bad. Thanks for your input. --- On Wed, 7/29/09, Richards, Robert B. robert.richa...@opm.gov wrote: From: Richards, Robert B. robert.richa...@opm.gov Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 12:51 PM Pat, A VERY ugly suggestion. Turn them all on with *ALL* and see what does not report anything. By the way, I have never tried this suggestion so I am not sure it is of any value except what you are paying me for it. Or, get Al's software. :-) Bob - -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:38 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information I'm currently working with/on SCRT for quite a few physical machines and about triple the amount of LPARs. Is there any easy way for me to find out what products might be on what LPARs for inclusion in the NO89 section? I've got the process working fine but now need to tailor the NO89 section for validity. Or do I just need to read the fine book some more. Al, help!? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
I can't resist jumping in here. Especially since the Patrick included Al, help!? in his original post. I think it's true as Mark wrote that Tivoli License Compliance Manager can help with this task. But in the US that's $2000 per MSU for the OTC alone with the VUE007 conversion table. TLCM will do a lot of things LCS does not attempt to do but LCS is what you need to audit, manage and optimize for SCRT. LPAR Capacity and Software Usage Analysis (LCS) Software is only $15,000/site. With TLCM $15,000 would only license 7.5 value units, only 15 MSUs of capacity. (Patrick also wrote quite a few physical machines and about triple the amount of LPARs so 15 MSUs probably isn't enough). The ROI on LCS is often achieved with next month's SCRT report. How many products can claim a one month ROI! LCS will identify the NO89s that typically not used in every LPAR like COBOL, PL/I. LCS will even generate the NO89 control cards for you. Read more at my website. Al Sherkow, I/S Management Strategies, Ltd. Consulting Expertise on Capacity Planning, Performance Tuning, WLC, LPARs, IRD and LCS Software Seminars on IBM SW Pricing, LPARs, and IRD Voice: +1 414 332-3062 Web: www.sherkow.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
Setting the NO89s to *ALL will just indicate to SCRT that you are running those products in every LPAR on every machine. Probably true for products like NetView, IBM's System Automation and their Scheduler. Lots of products once you commit to using them you need to run them everywhere. But for COBOL, PL/I and development/testing products that may not be true. I don't think you'll learn anything by trying *ALL. Al Sherkow, I/S Management Strategies, Ltd. Consulting Expertise on Capacity Planning, Performance Tuning, WLC, LPARs, IRD and LCS Software Seminars on IBM SW Pricing, LPARs, and IRD Voice: +1 414 332-3062 Web: www.sherkow.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
LOL! Well I did say that I had not tried it! And I did steer him to your product! You beat me to the punch with your comments about TLCM (SoftAudit). Unless it has changed drastically in the last few years, it does nothing for SCRT except let you know if a product was executing or not. Pat, I cannot recommend LCS strongly enough to people responsible for SCRT. When I was at SunTrust, the product paid for itself ten times over *every* year. Ask me what IBM has used in the past to audit SCRT? :-) Ask me if IBM *ever* challenged a submission of mine and I adjusted some values EVERY month for five years. Bob - Robert B. Richards(Bob) US Office of Personnel Management 1900 E Street NW Room: BH04L Washington, D.C. 20415 Phone: (202) 606-1195 Email: robert.richa...@opm.gov - -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Al Sherkow Digest Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:49 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information Setting the NO89s to *ALL will just indicate to SCRT that you are running those products in every LPAR on every machine. Probably true for products like NetView, IBM's System Automation and their Scheduler. Lots of products once you commit to using them you need to run them everywhere. But for COBOL, PL/I and development/testing products that may not be true. I don't think you'll learn anything by trying *ALL. Al Sherkow, I/S Management Strategies, Ltd. Consulting Expertise on Capacity Planning, Performance Tuning, WLC, LPARs, IRD and LCS Software Seminars on IBM SW Pricing, LPARs, and IRD Voice: +1 414 332-3062 Web: www.sherkow.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:49:27 -0500, Al Sherkow Digest a...@sherkow.com wrote: Setting the NO89s to *ALL will just indicate to SCRT that you are running those products in every LPAR on every machine. Exactly. IBM will be very very happy if you send them that report! Your management won't be when they get the bill. Probably true for products like NetView, Not any more here. We got rid of it to save money on all LPARs except the ones the VTAM group said they absolutely had to have it on. IBM's System Automation and their Scheduler. Lots of products once you commit to using them you need to run them everywhere. But for COBOL, PL/I and development/testing products that may not be true. I don't think you'll learn anything by trying *ALL. NO89 reporting is the honor system. So you have to know where things run. Tools like Softaudit / TCLM and Al's software can help. Unfortunately our guy that used to run SCRT never understood how it really worked. He would wait to see usage from softaudit and then add NO89 records for those. He also had the wrong LPAR names in the NO89. He was using SMF SYSID / SYSNAME instead of the HW LPAR name. In matched in some cases, in others it doesn't. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
That's not how it works. The NO89 covers products that do not cut SMF type 89 usage records. You are already paying for licensed products at full capacity. If you know you are not running a given product on LPARX, then include all of the others. Even if you are running it everywhere, you can still achieve sizable savings or, perhaps more importantly, make a good business case for a much bigger box you can grow into instead of a too small box you grow out of. You may not see any savings if your box is too small. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B. Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 7:51 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information Pat, A VERY ugly suggestion. Turn them all on with *ALL* and see what does not report anything. By the way, I have never tried this suggestion so I am not sure it is of any value except what you are paying me for it. Or, get Al's software. :-) Bob - -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:38 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information I'm currently working with/on SCRT for quite a few physical machines and about triple the amount of LPARs. Is there any easy way for me to find out what products might be on what LPARs for inclusion in the NO89 section? I've got the process working fine but now need to tailor the NO89 section for validity. Or do I just need to read the fine book some more. Al, help!? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
Thanks for all your input. You'll have to excuse my ignorance with this stuff since my main charge is tuning and I just started to read the manual, like yesterday. OK, if I have this right and I code *all for the NO89 products it may be possible to be billed additionally if that's possible. If I code *none for NO89 products we may not be able to take advantage of where the software is running to get additional SubCapacity savings. And if I code the LPARs where the NO89 products run this might/would be factored into potential SubCapacity savings. My plan is to get this right and so I will be including LPAR's that are part of the NO89 hit list but wanted to understand what the options actually mean from a savings viewpoint. Again, appreciate all your input (and you to Al - thanks) --- On Wed, 7/29/09, Hal Merritt hmerr...@jackhenry.com wrote: From: Hal Merritt hmerr...@jackhenry.com Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 3:11 PM That's not how it works. The NO89 covers products that do not cut SMF type 89 usage records. You are already paying for licensed products at full capacity. If you know you are not running a given product on LPARX, then include all of the others. Even if you are running it everywhere, you can still achieve sizable savings or, perhaps more importantly, make a good business case for a much bigger box you can grow into instead of a too small box you grow out of. You may not see any savings if your box is too small. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B. Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 7:51 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information Pat, A VERY ugly suggestion. Turn them all on with *ALL* and see what does not report anything. By the way, I have never tried this suggestion so I am not sure it is of any value except what you are paying me for it. Or, get Al's software. :-) Bob - -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:38 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information I'm currently working with/on SCRT for quite a few physical machines and about triple the amount of LPARs. Is there any easy way for me to find out what products might be on what LPARs for inclusion in the NO89 section? I've got the process working fine but now need to tailor the NO89 section for validity. Or do I just need to read the fine book some more. Al, help!? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
Pat, As far as coding *ALL for NO89 products that you do NOT have licenses to, I can't tell for certain, but I wouldn't do that. You might or might not get billed for these products, or you might get a call from your friendly IBM sales rep thanking you for licensing it all! :-) As far as coding *ALL for NO89 products that you DO have licenses for, you will be billed for the total SCRT usage on the boxes, regardless of how much you actually use the products. As others have stated, NO89 means that IBM doesn't cut SMF records to tell them how much is actually being used, so they bill for the products based on the system utilization. As far as coding *NONE for products you are using, IBM frowns on that, because you're telling them that you aren't using the software. If you're not actually using it, drop the licenses to the product(s) and save the money. If you are using the products but telling IBM you aren't, that's being dishonest. As far as giving IBM a list of LPARs you actually are running software on instead of *ALL, you can save money by not being billed for the software on LPARs you aren't running the software on. In my case, I have 3 LPARs, 1 production a test, and a sandbox. I only have 1 product that is in the NO89 list, COBOL. I don't use this on my sandbox (named MVSTECH), so my entry for this is: 5655-G53=MVSPROD,MVSTEST When I get my SCRT report and subsequent bill, I don't get invoiced for the 1 MSU that typically shows up on the sandbox. On the other LPARs, even though COBOL is used very little, I get billed for the MSUs that the LPARs consume, not that COBOL consumes. HTH Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 1:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information Thanks for all your input. You'll have to excuse my ignorance with this stuff since my main charge is tuning and I just started to read the manual, like yesterday. OK, if I have this right and I code *all for the NO89 products it may be possible to be billed additionally if that's possible. If I code *none for NO89 products we may not be able to take advantage of where the software is running to get additional SubCapacity savings. And if I code the LPARs where the NO89 products run this might/would be factored into potential SubCapacity savings. My plan is to get this right and so I will be including LPAR's that are part of the NO89 hit list but wanted to understand what the options actually mean from a savings viewpoint. Again, appreciate all your input (and you to Al - thanks) --- On Wed, 7/29/09, Hal Merritt hmerr...@jackhenry.com wrote: From: Hal Merritt hmerr...@jackhenry.com Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 3:11 PM That's not how it works. The NO89 covers products that do not cut SMF type 89 usage records. You are already paying for licensed products at full capacity. If you know you are not running a given product on LPARX, then include all of the others. Even if you are running it everywhere, you can still achieve sizable savings or, perhaps more importantly, make a good business case for a much bigger box you can grow into instead of a too small box you grow out of. You may not see any savings if your box is too small. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
Rex, Thanks for the information, it's becoming clearer. I was basically trying to understand the options and implications. And I surely don't want to mislead IBM with this information. At this point I know what software runs on what machines but I'll need to figure out by machine what LPAR's are running the NO89 software that I get hits on. I certainly have a firmer handle on this than I did at this time yesterday. Thanks again for all your input. --- On Wed, 7/29/09, Pommier, Rex R. rex.pomm...@cnasurety.com wrote: From: Pommier, Rex R. rex.pomm...@cnasurety.com Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 6:38 PM Pat, As far as coding *ALL for NO89 products that you do NOT have licenses to, I can't tell for certain, but I wouldn't do that. You might or might not get billed for these products, or you might get a call from your friendly IBM sales rep thanking you for licensing it all! :-) As far as coding *ALL for NO89 products that you DO have licenses for, you will be billed for the total SCRT usage on the boxes, regardless of how much you actually use the products. As others have stated, NO89 means that IBM doesn't cut SMF records to tell them how much is actually being used, so they bill for the products based on the system utilization. As far as coding *NONE for products you are using, IBM frowns on that, because you're telling them that you aren't using the software. If you're not actually using it, drop the licenses to the product(s) and save the money. If you are using the products but telling IBM you aren't, that's being dishonest. As far as giving IBM a list of LPARs you actually are running software on instead of *ALL, you can save money by not being billed for the software on LPARs you aren't running the software on. In my case, I have 3 LPARs, 1 production a test, and a sandbox. I only have 1 product that is in the NO89 list, COBOL. I don't use this on my sandbox (named MVSTECH), so my entry for this is: 5655-G53=MVSPROD,MVSTEST When I get my SCRT report and subsequent bill, I don't get invoiced for the 1 MSU that typically shows up on the sandbox. On the other LPARs, even though COBOL is used very little, I get billed for the MSUs that the LPARs consume, not that COBOL consumes. HTH Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 1:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information Thanks for all your input. You'll have to excuse my ignorance with this stuff since my main charge is tuning and I just started to read the manual, like yesterday. OK, if I have this right and I code *all for the NO89 products it may be possible to be billed additionally if that's possible. If I code *none for NO89 products we may not be able to take advantage of where the software is running to get additional SubCapacity savings. And if I code the LPARs where the NO89 products run this might/would be factored into potential SubCapacity savings. My plan is to get this right and so I will be including LPAR's that are part of the NO89 hit list but wanted to understand what the options actually mean from a savings viewpoint. Again, appreciate all your input (and you to Al - thanks) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
See below; HTH and good luck. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 1:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information Thanks for all your input. You'll have to excuse my ignorance with this stuff since my main charge is tuning and I just started to read the manual, like yesterday. OK, if I have this right and I code *all for the NO89 products it may be possible to be billed additionally if that's possible. Yes, if you weren't licensed for that product on that box. If I code *none for NO89 products we may not be able to take advantage of where the software is running to get additional SubCapacity savings. Correct. You will continue to pay based on the box size. And if I code the LPARs where the NO89 products run this might/would be factored into potential SubCapacity savings. Correct. My plan is to get this right and so I will be including LPAR's that are part of the NO89 hit list but wanted to understand what the options actually mean from a savings viewpoint. Again, appreciate all your input (and you to Al - thanks) --- On Wed, 7/29/09, Hal Merritt hmerr...@jackhenry.com wrote: From: Hal Merritt hmerr...@jackhenry.com Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 3:11 PM That's not how it works. The NO89 covers products that do not cut SMF type 89 usage records. You are already paying for licensed products at full capacity. If you know you are not running a given product on LPARX, then include all of the others. Even if you are running it everywhere, you can still achieve sizable savings or, perhaps more importantly, make a good business case for a much bigger box you can grow into instead of a too small box you grow out of. You may not see any savings if your box is too small. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Richards, Robert B. Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 7:51 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information Pat, A VERY ugly suggestion. Turn them all on with *ALL* and see what does not report anything. By the way, I have never tried this suggestion so I am not sure it is of any value except what you are paying me for it. Or, get Al's software. :-) Bob - -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:38 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information I'm currently working with/on SCRT for quite a few physical machines and about triple the amount of LPARs. Is there any easy way for me to find out what products might be on what LPARs for inclusion in the NO89 section? I've got the process working fine but now need to tailor the NO89 section for validity. Or do I just need to read the fine book some more. Al, help!? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
Pat, If you code *ALL for NO89 products that you do NOT have licenses to there should be no implication because IBM knows what products you are licensed for. The bigger issue is if you code *ALL for NO89 products that you DO have licenses for but are not running on all of the lpars. In this case you will be billed for lpars that are not using the product; thereby increasing your costs. - Original Message - From: Pommier, Rex R. rex.pomm...@cnasurety.com Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 2:38 PM Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information Pat, As far as coding *ALL for NO89 products that you do NOT have licenses to, I can't tell for certain, but I wouldn't do that. You might or might not get billed for these products, or you might get a call from your friendly IBM sales rep thanking you for licensing it all! :-) As far as coding *ALL for NO89 products that you DO have licenses for, you will be billed for the total SCRT usage on the boxes, regardless of how much you actually use the products. As others have stated, NO89 means that IBM doesn't cut SMF records to tell them how much is actually being used, so they bill for the products based on the system utilization. As far as coding *NONE for products you are using, IBM frowns on that, because you're telling them that you aren't using the software. If you're not actually using it, drop the licenses to the product(s) and save the money. If you are using the products but telling IBM you aren't, that's being dishonest. As far as giving IBM a list of LPARs you actually are running software on instead of *ALL, you can save money by not being billed for the software on LPARs you aren't running the software on. In my case, I have 3 LPARs, 1 production a test, and a sandbox. I only have 1 product that is in the NO89 list, COBOL. I don't use this on my sandbox (named MVSTECH), so my entry for this is: 5655-G53=MVSPROD,MVSTEST When I get my SCRT report and subsequent bill, I don't get invoiced for the 1 MSU that typically shows up on the sandbox. On the other LPARs, even though COBOL is used very little, I get billed for the MSUs that the LPARs consume, not that COBOL consumes. HTH Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Patrick Falcone Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 1:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information Thanks for all your input. You'll have to excuse my ignorance with this stuff since my main charge is tuning and I just started to read the manual, like yesterday. OK, if I have this right and I code *all for the NO89 products it may be possible to be billed additionally if that's possible. If I code *none for NO89 products we may not be able to take advantage of where the software is running to get additional SubCapacity savings. And if I code the LPARs where the NO89 products run this might/would be factored into potential SubCapacity savings. My plan is to get this right and so I will be including LPAR's that are part of the NO89 hit list but wanted to understand what the options actually mean from a savings viewpoint. Again, appreciate all your input (and you to Al - thanks) --- On Wed, 7/29/09, Hal Merritt hmerr...@jackhenry.com wrote: From: Hal Merritt hmerr...@jackhenry.com Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 3:11 PM That's not how it works. The NO89 covers products that do not cut SMF type 89 usage records. You are already paying for licensed products at full capacity. If you know you are not running a given product on LPARX, then include all of the others. Even if you are running it everywhere, you can still achieve sizable savings or, perhaps more importantly, make a good business case for a much bigger box you can grow into instead of a too small box you grow out of. You may not see any savings if your box is too small. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
IBM knows what products you are licensed for. Since when? You don't want to know how many audits I have gone through with IBM Canada over the last 30 years!n - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
Correction: IBM is supposed to know what products you have. But even if you have *ALL for NO89 products that you do NOT have licenses to you can work with IBM to correct the billing. - Original Message - From: Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 5:52 PM Subject: Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information IBM knows what products you are licensed for. Since when? You don't want to know how many audits I have gone through with IBM Canada over the last 30 years!n - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
I believe the fine print TsCs indicate that if you specify that a product runs on one LPAR or any LPARs of a machine for which it is not licensed that IBM may view that as an order for the products. Similarly, for products that do generate SMF89 data, if SCRT detects a product on a machine where it is not licensed, that is an order for the product. You can correct this after the fact, but it's better to read the reports and be sure they are what you expect. (LCS highlights the discovery of products running where they are not expected to be running based on your licenses and/or history of product usage). This is the basis of Pat's original question. You are supposed to setup the NO89 parameters to reflect in which LPARs you actually use the NO89 products. This is why LCS detects this, to help sites properly report their usage to IBM. Al Sherkow, I/S Management Strategies, Ltd. Consulting Expertise on Capacity Planning, Performance Tuning, WLC, LPARs, IRD and LCS Software Seminars on IBM SW Pricing, LPARs, and IRD Voice: +1 414 332-3062 Web: www.sherkow.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
In a message dated 7/29/2009 11:14:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, a...@sherkow.com writes: believe the fine print TsCs indicate that if you specify that a product runs on one LPAR or any LPARs of a machine for which it is not licensed that IBM may view that as an order for the products. Curiosity question. What about the unordered but installed products like DCF? Seems like .BOO enables it for printing even if it's disabled in PRODnn. **Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223105306x1201716871/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D9) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
I'm currently working with/on SCRT for quite a few physical machines and about triple the amount of LPARs. Is there any easy way for me to find out what products might be on what LPARs for inclusion in the NO89 section? I've got the process working fine but now need to tailor the NO89 section for validity. Or do I just need to read the fine book some more. Al, help!? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: z/OS SCRT NO89 Product Information
On Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:37:31 -0700, Patrick Falcone patrick.falco...@verizon.net wrote: I'm currently working with/on SCRT for quite a few physical machines and about triple the amount of LPARs. Is there any easy way for me to find out what products might be on what LPARs for inclusion in the NO89 section? I've got the process working fine but now need to tailor the NO89 section for validity. Or do I just need to read the fine book some more. Al, help!? Products like Tivoli License Compliance Manager (TLCM - formerly SoftAudit) can help with something like this. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
