date:20211021

Reasonable? People who weren’t aware of 5-9’s, who thought pharmacies weren’t 
open 24 hours a day. Silly you.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 11:07 PM, Tom Brennan 
 wrote:

And here I thought you could have a reasonable conversation about an 
important topic.  Silly me.

On 10/21/2021 7:59 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I don’t really care Tom. Any more than I cared in 1995 when people like you 
> told me the mainframe was going to be gone in 5 years and I better look for 
> my next profession. I’m not looking for agreement like most of you.
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 10:50 PM, Tom Brennan 
>  wrote:
> 
> Then you're lucky because my view is more like what David said.
> 
> On 10/21/2021 6:49 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> Plus, I’ve worked in 15 shops in my career, including banking, insurance, 
>> retail, and health care. In all of them, the mainframe is the most important 
>> and most used platform. And it’s not even close.
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
>> wrote:
>>
>> On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
>>> I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. 
>>> Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And 
>>> with very high confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always 
>>> available. Not sure how more modern the mainframe could be actually.
>>> Bill J
>>
>> I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail,
>> insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT
>> systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from
>> a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has
>> pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of
>> those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on
>> their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data
>> to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.
>>
>> Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the
>> BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed
>> that which is another good example of mainframe modernization
>> https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> That can certainly be part of it.
>>>
>>> But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with 
>>> access to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the 
>>> data, or access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can 
>>> retain it’s role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more 
>>> modern face on the applications.
>>>
>>> Rich Smrcina
>>>
>>>
 On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
 <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

 I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) 
 and Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.

 Mark Jacobs

 Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

 GPG Public Key - 
 https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com

 ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

 On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
  wrote:

> Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe
>
> Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you
>
> ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is
>
> silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
>
> Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?
>
> ---
>
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread Tom Brennan

And here I thought you could have a reasonable conversation about an 
important topic.  Silly me.


On 10/21/2021 7:59 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

I don’t really care Tom. Any more than I cared in 1995 when people like you 
told me the mainframe was going to be gone in 5 years and I better look for my 
next profession. I’m not looking for agreement like most of you.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 10:50 PM, Tom Brennan 
 wrote:

Then you're lucky because my view is more like what David said.

On 10/21/2021 6:49 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Plus, I’ve worked in 15 shops in my career, including banking, insurance, 
retail, and health care. In all of them, the mainframe is the most important 
and most used platform. And it’s not even close.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:

I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. Banking, 
health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And with very high 
confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always available. Not sure how 
more modern the mainframe could be actually.
Bill J


I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail,
insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT
systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from
a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has
pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of
those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on
their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data
to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.

Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the
BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed
that which is another good example of mainframe modernization
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
 wrote:

That can certainly be part of it.

But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with access 
to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the data, or 
access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can retain it’s 
role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more modern face on 
the applications.

Rich Smrcina



On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
<0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) and 
Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
 wrote:


Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe

Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you

ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is

silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.

Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

---

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

I don’t really care Tom. Any more than I cared in 1995 when people like you 
told me the mainframe was going to be gone in 5 years and I better look for my 
next profession. I’m not looking for agreement like most of you.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 10:50 PM, Tom Brennan 
 wrote:

Then you're lucky because my view is more like what David said.

On 10/21/2021 6:49 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Plus, I’ve worked in 15 shops in my career, including banking, insurance, 
> retail, and health care. In all of them, the mainframe is the most important 
> and most used platform. And it’s not even close.
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
> 
> On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. 
>> Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And 
>> with very high confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always 
>> available. Not sure how more modern the mainframe could be actually.
>> Bill J
> 
> I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail,
> insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT
> systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from
> a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has
> pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of
> those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on
> their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data
> to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.
> 
> Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the
> BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed
> that which is another good example of mainframe modernization
> https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.
> 
> 
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> That can certainly be part of it.
>>
>> But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with 
>> access to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the 
>> data, or access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can 
>> retain it’s role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more 
>> modern face on the applications.
>>
>> Rich Smrcina
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
>>> <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) 
>>> and Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.
>>>
>>> Mark Jacobs
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
>>>
>>> GPG Public Key - 
>>> https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com
>>>
>>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
 Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe

 Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you

 ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is

 silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.

 Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

 ---

 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,

 send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>>
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to

Re: Mainframe Modernization

You guys are the 2021 version of the guy who said the mainframe would be dead 
by 2000.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 10:50 PM, Tom Brennan 
 wrote:

Then you're lucky because my view is more like what David said.

On 10/21/2021 6:49 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Plus, I’ve worked in 15 shops in my career, including banking, insurance, 
> retail, and health care. In all of them, the mainframe is the most important 
> and most used platform. And it’s not even close.
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
> 
> On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. 
>> Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And 
>> with very high confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always 
>> available. Not sure how more modern the mainframe could be actually.
>> Bill J
> 
> I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail,
> insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT
> systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from
> a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has
> pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of
> those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on
> their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data
> to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.
> 
> Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the
> BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed
> that which is another good example of mainframe modernization
> https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.
> 
> 
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> That can certainly be part of it.
>>
>> But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with 
>> access to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the 
>> data, or access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can 
>> retain it’s role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more 
>> modern face on the applications.
>>
>> Rich Smrcina
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
>>> <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) 
>>> and Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.
>>>
>>> Mark Jacobs
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
>>>
>>> GPG Public Key - 
>>> https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com
>>>
>>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
 Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe

 Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you

 ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is

 silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.

 Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

 ---

 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,

 send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>>
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> .
> 

--

Re: Mainframe Modernization

Lol, you think IBM post false numbers? You’re an idiot.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 10:35 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 22/10/2021 9:47 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I highly doubt your claim regarding banks.
> https://www.precisely.com/blog/mainframe/9-mainframe-statistics


Oh, a mainframe blog that quotes IBM numbers! Thanks Bill.

Don't take my word for it. There's a video and presentation that 
describes the banking architecture I mentioned 
https://www.confluent.io/kafka-summit-sf18/kafka-in-the-enterprise/. 
That's the tip of the iceberg. I can spend all day posting more links to 
other banks with the same event driven architectures. The mainframe is 
critical to their core banking system but it's just a cog in the wheel. 
I'm not anti-mainframe. I work for a mainframe ISV and I hope to retire 
still working on the mainframe.

When you say all banks are you including neobanks and fintechs which 
have exploded in recent years and disrupted the banking industry. I 
moved my banking to a mobile app only neobank ages ago and have never 
looked back. I still get a bank card and pay no transaction fees. I 
enjoy the same
regulations and guarantees that I would get from a traditional retail bank.


> 9 Mainframe Statistics That May Surprise You - Precisely
>    
> |
> |
> |
> |  |    |
>
>    |
>
>    |
> |
> |  |
> 9 Mainframe Statistics That May Surprise You - Precisely
>  
> How important is the mainframe today? One way of answering that question is 
> to take a look at some mainframe statistics about how they are currently used.
>    |  |
>
>    |
>
>    |
>
>    
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
>
> On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. 
>> Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And 
>> with very high confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always 
>> available. Not sure how more modern the mainframe could be actually.
>> Bill J
> I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail,
> insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT
> systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from
> a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has
> pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of
> those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on
> their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data
> to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.
>
> Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the
> BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed
> that which is another good example of mainframe modernization
> https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.
>
>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> That can certainly be part of it.
>>
>> But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with 
>> access to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the 
>> data, or access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can 
>> retain it’s role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more 
>> modern face on the applications.
>>
>> Rich Smrcina
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
>>> <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) 
>>> and Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.
>>>
>>> Mark Jacobs
>>>
>>> Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
>>>
>>> GPG Public Key - 
>>> https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com
>>>
>>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
 Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe

 Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you

 ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is

 silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.

 Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

 ---

 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,

 send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>>

Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread Tom Brennan


Then you're lucky because my view is more like what David said.

On 10/21/2021 6:49 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:

Plus, I’ve worked in 15 shops in my career, including banking, insurance, 
retail, and health care. In all of them, the mainframe is the most important 
and most used platform. And it’s not even close.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:

I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. Banking, 
health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And with very high 
confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always available. Not sure how 
more modern the mainframe could be actually.
Bill J


I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail,
insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT
systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from
a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has
pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of
those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on
their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data
to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.

Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the
BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed
that which is another good example of mainframe modernization
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.




Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
 wrote:

That can certainly be part of it.

But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with access 
to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the data, or 
access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can retain it’s 
role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more modern face on 
the applications.

Rich Smrcina



On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
<0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) and 
Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
 wrote:


Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe

Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you

ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is

silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.

Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

---

For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,

send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

--
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--
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.



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Re: Mainframe Modernization

On 22/10/2021 9:47 am, Bill Johnson wrote:

I highly doubt your claim regarding banks.
https://www.precisely.com/blog/mainframe/9-mainframe-statistics

Oh, a mainframe blog that quotes IBM numbers! Thanks Bill.

Don't take my word for it. There's a video and presentation that
describes the banking architecture I mentioned
https://www.confluent.io/kafka-summit-sf18/kafka-in-the-enterprise/.
That's the tip of the iceberg. I can spend all day posting more links to
other banks with the same event driven architectures. The mainframe is
critical to their core banking system but it's just a cog in the wheel.
I'm not anti-mainframe. I work for a mainframe ISV and I hope to retire
still working on the mainframe.

When you say all banks are you including neobanks and fintechs which
have exploded in recent years and disrupted the banking industry. I
moved my banking to a mobile app only neobank ages ago and have never
looked back. I still get a bank card and pay no transaction fees. I
enjoy the same

regulations and guarantees that I would get from a traditional retail bank.

9 Mainframe Statistics That May Surprise You - Precisely

|
|
| ||

|
|
| |
9 Mainframe Statistics That May Surprise You - Precisely

How important is the mainframe today? One way of answering that question is to take a look at some mainframe statistics about how they are currently used.

| |

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford
wrote:

On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:

I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. Banking,
health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And with very high
confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always available. Not sure how
more modern the mainframe could be actually.
Bill J

I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail,
insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT
systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from
a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has
pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of
those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on
their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data
to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.

Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the
BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed
that which is another good example of mainframe modernization
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina
wrote:

That can certainly be part of it.

But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with access
to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the data, or
access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can retain it’s
role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more modern face on
the applications.

Rich Smrcina

On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs
<0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) and
Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key -
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot
wrote:

Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe

Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you

ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is

silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.

Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

I remember when “experts” were touting SAP, Powerbuilder, and others while 
other/same “experts” were saying the mainframe was going to be obsolete by 
2000. 2 decades later, it’s still going strong with no end in sight. Those 
software du jour aren’t likely to replace it.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 8:51 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

I think "Mainframe Modernization" is an umbrella term that can be used 
to describe many different things. That may be new UIs  or application 
modernization such as adding a REST API to a legacy application. IBM are 
doing a great job adding modern languages to z/OS that have features 
traditional mainframe languages like COBOL lack.
I'm currently working on a product that takes monitoring data from 
legacy products and streams it to analytics platforms such as Elastic, 
Splunk or publises metrics for Prometheus/Grafana. Customers already use 
these platforms for their distributed applications which interact with 
the mainframe and it's important for them to see the entire stack using 
modern solutions.

I don't consider 'cloud' or 'devops' to be BS. Devops has transformed 
the way we work. We use Git, Jira, Bitbucket, Jenkins, Artifactory etc. 
When we merge a branch in Git it fires off an automated Jenkins build 
that can package our product and run tests. The old way of doing things 
manually using batch jobs was error prone and tedious.
WRT cloud, I can stand up a personal development z/OS VM using Ansible 
Tower in less than 2 minutes. I can do that from a web UI or by calling 
a REST API. On the distributed side I'm a big fan of orchestration 
technologies such a Kubernetes.  I run a single command to stand up a 
cluster of VMs to deploy a software stack for testing.

On 21/10/2021 6:50 am, David Elliot wrote:
> Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe
> Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you
> ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is
> silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
> Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?
>
> --
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> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

Plus, I’ve worked in 15 shops in my career, including banking, insurance, 
retail, and health care. In all of them, the mainframe is the most important 
and most used platform. And it’s not even close.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. 
> Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And 
> with very high confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always 
> available. Not sure how more modern the mainframe could be actually.
> Bill J

I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail, 
insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT 
systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from 
a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has 
pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of 
those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on 
their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data 
to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.

Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the 
BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed 
that which is another good example of mainframe modernization 
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.


>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
>  wrote:
>
> That can certainly be part of it.
>
> But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with access 
> to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the data, or 
> access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can retain it’s 
> role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more modern face on 
> the applications.
>
> Rich Smrcina
>
>
>> On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
>> <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) 
>> and Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.
>>
>> Mark Jacobs
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
>>
>> GPG Public Key - 
>> https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com
>>
>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe
>>>
>>> Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you
>>>
>>> ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is
>>>
>>> silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
>>>
>>> Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>>
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>> --
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>>
>
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>
>
>
>
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

I highly doubt your claim regarding banks.
https://www.precisely.com/blog/mainframe/9-mainframe-statistics

9 Mainframe Statistics That May Surprise You - Precisely
  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
|   |  
9 Mainframe Statistics That May Surprise You - Precisely
 
How important is the mainframe today? One way of answering that question is to 
take a look at some mainframe statistics about how they are currently used.
  |   |

  |

  |

  



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 9:13 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
> I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. 
> Banking, health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And 
> with very high confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always 
> available. Not sure how more modern the mainframe could be actually.
> Bill J

I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail, 
insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT 
systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from 
a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has 
pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of 
those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on 
their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data 
to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.

Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the 
BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed 
that which is another good example of mainframe modernization 
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.


>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
>  wrote:
>
> That can certainly be part of it.
>
> But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with access 
> to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the data, or 
> access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can retain it’s 
> role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more modern face on 
> the applications.
>
> Rich Smrcina
>
>
>> On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
>> <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) 
>> and Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.
>>
>> Mark Jacobs
>>
>> Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
>>
>> GPG Public Key - 
>> https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com
>>
>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe
>>>
>>> Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you
>>>
>>> ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is
>>>
>>> silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
>>>
>>> Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>>
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>> --
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>>
>
> --
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>
>
>
>
> --
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Re: Mainframe Modernization


On 21/10/2021 7:31 am, Bill Johnson wrote:

I do almost everything important via app with a mainframe on the back end. Banking, 
health records, retail shopping, insurance claims, investing. And with very high 
confidence the transactions are secure, fast, & always available. Not sure how 
more modern the mainframe could be actually.
Bill J


I would suggest that almost all of those companies (banks, retail, 
insurance etc) that run mainframes run a significant portion of their IT 
systems on distributed systems. I recently met a software architect from 
a bank who told me that the explosion of internet banking app usage has 
pushed up the TCO of their mainframe to unacceptable levels. 70% of 
those transactions were reads (folks checking their bank balances on 
their phones). Their solution was use Apache Kafka to replicate the data 
to Apache Cassandra and only hit the mainframe for writes.


Apache Kafka can be deployed on z/OS but it was crippled due to the 
BPX1MMP (mmap) service being contained to 2GB. IBM have recently fixed 
that which is another good example of mainframe modernization 
https://www.ibm.com/support/pages/apar/PH32235.





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, October 20, 2021, 7:18 PM, Rich Smrcina 
 wrote:

That can certainly be part of it.

But it can also mean providing applications (typically web based) with access 
to z/OS data, or interfaces. Whether that’s direct access to the data, or 
access through a REST type interface. That way the mainframe can retain it’s 
role as the system of record, and at the same time put a more modern face on 
the applications.

Rich Smrcina



On Oct 20, 2021, at 6:08 PM, Mark Jacobs 
<0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I think it's related to the push for the z/OS Management Facility (z/OSMF) and 
Zowe over traditional system administration and programming methods.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Wednesday, October 20th, 2021 at 6:50 PM, David Elliot 
 wrote:


Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe

Modernization' '? It seems to be catching on with the Bobs but when you

ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is

silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.

Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

---

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

I think "Mainframe Modernization" is an umbrella term that can be used 
to describe many different things. That may be new UIs  or application 
modernization such as adding a REST API to a legacy application. IBM are 
doing a great job adding modern languages to z/OS that have features 
traditional mainframe languages like COBOL lack.
I'm currently working on a product that takes monitoring data from 
legacy products and streams it to analytics platforms such as Elastic, 
Splunk or publises metrics for Prometheus/Grafana. Customers already use 
these platforms for their distributed applications which interact with 
the mainframe and it's important for them to see the entire stack using 
modern solutions.


I don't consider 'cloud' or 'devops' to be BS. Devops has transformed 
the way we work. We use Git, Jira, Bitbucket, Jenkins, Artifactory etc. 
When we merge a branch in Git it fires off an automated Jenkins build 
that can package our product and run tests. The old way of doing things 
manually using batch jobs was error prone and tedious.
WRT cloud, I can stand up a personal development z/OS VM using Ansible 
Tower in less than 2 minutes. I can do that from a web UI or by calling 
a REST API. On the distributed side I'm a big fan of orchestration 
technologies such a Kubernetes.  I run a single command to stand up a 
cluster of VMs to deploy a software stack for testing.



On 21/10/2021 6:50 am, David Elliot wrote:

Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe
Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you
ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is
silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

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Re: C signal() and abends not being signaled

You're using the wrong signal. SIGABND catches abends such as x37. If 
you want to catch machine checks use SIGSEGV (0C4), SIGILL (0C1) etc.


On 19/10/2021 11:03 pm, Jantje. wrote:

Esteemed listers,

I have the situation that in the vast majority of cases the C program just 
works fine, but in an infinitesimal small number of cases, it gets a S0C4 
abend. I could perhaps, through intricate testing and comparing of lots of 
things -- and burning huge amounts of CPU in doing so -- prevent the abend from 
happening, but I would rather avoid the cost of that testing and instead 
privilege the normal case.

So, I thought to use the signal() function to take control in those very few 
cases where the abend occurs.

However...

signal or no signal, LE takes that CEEDUMP and the program stops, no matter 
what.

What am I missing?

I reduced my program to bare minimum to prove the point. Here is the code:

#include 
#include 
#include 
#ifdef __cplusplus
   extern "C" void StrAbn(int);
#else
   void StrAbn(int);
#endif
int main(int argc, char *argvÝ¨) {
   printf("Setting abend handler\n");
   if (signal(SIGABND, StrAbn) == SIG_ERR) {
 perror("Could not signal user signal");
 abort();
   } else {
 printf("Abend handler set\n");
   }
   printf("This must cause an abend\n");
   strcpy(0,"Coucou");
   printf("Continuing after abend\n");
   return(0);
}
void StrAbn(int SIG_TYPE) {
   printf("Trapped a vicious abend\n");
   signal(SIG_TYPE, SIG_IGN);
   printf("Exiting after the abend\n");
   exit(0);
}
  
The output says:


Setting abend handler
Abend handler set
This must cause an abend

and it does cause an abend. But control does not come to my signal handling routine. The 
"Trapped a vicious abend" never appears.
I have been reading up on LE condition handling and on the use of the signal() 
function, and I have searched the archives of this very list. All to no avail.

For what it is worth: I do see the following LE options:

ABPERC(NONE)
ABTERMENC(ABEND)
DEBUG
POSIX(OFF)
NOTEST(ALL,"*","PROMPT","INSPPREF")
TRAP(ON,SPIE)
  
So, what do I need to do to actually trap that abend and get control back in my program when it happens?


Any and all suggestions are welcome.

Thanks and very best regards,

Jantje.

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Re: An older device query - still using??

2021-10-21 Thread Matt Hogstrom

I recall the 3540 well because the team that did the data keying would use 
them.  IIRC there was an issue in terms of getting the disks ejected and I 
ended up writing a channel program to eject the disk as part of the batch job.

I also remember the 3895 because we installed it when I worked for Sears 
Savings Bank in Burbank California.  I also programmed the 3624 (ATM machines) 
to do auto-reconfiguration when a current cart ran out of money.  Those were 
fun times and good days.

Matt Hogstrom
m...@hogstrom.org
+1-919-656-0564
PGP Key: 0x90ECB270
Facebook   LinkedIn 
  Twitter 

“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
— Hogstrom

> On May 13, 2020, at 10:38 PM, Tony Thigpen  wrote:
> 
> The 3540 was the reader/punch that was to replace the card reader/punch 
> system. Which it did at both my college (while I was there) and at my first 
> job (where it replaced the 96 column card system) just before I got there.
> 
> The 3740 and 3742 were the replacement for the card punch machine. They were 
> highly programmable. You could set up programs where some characters 
> "punched" as packed decimal and other characters were punched as display 
> characters. It would also sum-check fields in a single record and 
> automatically punch final "sums records".
> 
> The 3540 had a AWSOMA:  Optical Media AttachTOC that contained a VOL1 record 
> and multiple HDR1 records which supported multiple files. It had tracks and 
> records. I am fuzzy, but I think it supported different record lengths (set 
> in the HDR1 for each file). I know you could punch both 80 and 96 (in 
> separate files).
> 
> The VTOC design was also used in the Optical Media Attach Feature, which was 
> actually 'emulated' on the P360/P390 in the AWSOMA dirver.
> 
> (All "facts" subject to dropped memory bits due to old age.)
> 
> Tony Thigpen
> 
> R.S. wrote on 5/13/20 6:59 PM:
>> I just checked bitsavers and found some information about 3540
>> 1. Capacity - it depends. There were several types and subtypes, and 
>> sub-subtypes of diskettes. Approximately 256kB to 1,2 MB, however 3540 used 
>> only those low capacity. (details available on request)
>> 2. Feeding media - automatically, not manually.
>> 3. There were two types of 3540, single and double drive.
>> 4. The purpose was to deliver data from keypunch (wrong!) data entry 
>> stations. At the times before CRT screens became popular.
>> However still I have no idea about system support. How to write data on 
>> diskette, how to read from diskette, how to recognize volume ID, etc.
>> No, I'm not going to use it, but I'm just curious.
> 
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Re: An older device query - still using??

2021-10-21 Thread Todd Arnold

I just ran across this thread, and thought I'd correct/confirm a couple of 
things.  I spent the first part of my IBM career on the development team that 
designed the 3890 and 3895, so I am familiar with those machines. 
 
First, the 3895 was NOT a printer.  It was a specialized kind of check sorter.  
Specifically, it was called a "document reader/inscriber", and it read and 
sorted checks, but with a very important added feature.  The 3895 was able to 
find and read the handwritten amount on a check, then inscribe that amount on 
the MICR codeline - thus saving a great deal of time over the traditional 
method where a bunch of operators read the checks with their eyes and type in 
the amounts on an inscribing machine.  I did a lot of work on the OCR that did 
that recognition - fun stuff.  As I recall, the goal was to get it right on at 
least 50% of the checks, and sort the others out so they could be handled in 
the traditional way.  In addition to these features, the 3895 read the existing 
MICR codeline data and could print an item number and a bank endorsement on 
each check.  You can see a photo of the machine and a little other information 
here:  
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/brochures/IBM3895DocumentReaderInsciber.pdf

Secondly, I can confirm that the 3890 sorter used a 360 mod 25 as the internal 
control unit.  This was the case until 1988 (I think), when the 360 was 
replaced with PC technology.  It was quite an interesting process - the team 
tried for many years to find a replacement for the 360 mod 25, but nothing had 
fast enough response time to do that until around 1988.  That old mod 25 did an 
amazing job.  If I recall correctly, it was programmed directly in its native 
microcode language, and not in the 360 instruction set.  (I should remember for 
sure, since I wrote some code that ran on that processor, but it was just too 
long ago...)

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Re: Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?

2021-10-21 Thread Roberto Halais

We transitioned from Ibm Session Manager to CL/SUPERSESSION.
Wasn’t straightforward there are many parameters to touch i.e. user access,
user modifications to be allowed and many others.
Ask the group here we might help a bit.

On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 9:08 AM Mark Regan  wrote:

> Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user group? If not, are there any users
> here on IBM-MAIN who can help a new customer with questions about
> transitioning to it from another vendor's product?
> Regards,
>
> Mark Regan, K8MTR
>
> *CTO1 USNR-Retired, 1969-1991*
> *Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017*
>
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Re: Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?

2021-10-21 Thread Ramsey Hallman

Mark,

Most of the CL/Supersession documentation appears to be available online.
Search "IBM CL/Supersession V3".  I found multiple PDF's - Basic Config
Guide, Customization Guide, Problem Determination Guide, etc.

Ramsey

On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 12:25 PM Gilson Cesar de Oliveira 
wrote:

> Mark:
>
> Here in Brazil we have configured CLSS 3.1 to replace Netview
> Access.
> It is working as expected but there are some difference if you
> compare with Netview Access.
> I have to get most of the configuration steps in manuals.
>
> If you need information on how to do it, please let me know.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gilson
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Richards, Robert B. (CTR)
> Sent: quinta-feira, 21 de outubro de 2021 11:35
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?
>
> No idea on the number of users, but they upgraded it to 3.1 to fix some
> issues. That is what we have installed.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Mark Regan
> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:15 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?
>
> Bob,
>
> Thanks for the reply. I had looked for one but came up empty. It makes you
> wonder how many customers of CLSS there are. If I was so inclined, I could
> start one on groups.io, where NetView and System Automation are. I
> created one there for Lionel Dyck's XMITIP program, and it has been getting
> some use.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mark Regan, K8MTR
>
> *CTO1 USNR-Retired, 1969-1991*
> *Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017*
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 10:03 AM Richards, Robert B. (CTR) <
> 01c91f408b9e-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > Mark,
> >
> > I am unaware of any user group. Regardless, ask away. If we can
> > answer, we will. 
> >
> > Bob (CLSS user)
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Mark Regan
> > Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 9:08 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?
> >
> > Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user group? If not, are there any
> > users here on IBM-MAIN who can help a new customer with questions
> > about transitioning to it from another vendor's product?
> > Regards,
> >
> > Mark Regan, K8MTR
> >
> > *CTO1 USNR-Retired, 1969-1991*
> > *Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017*
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
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> >
>
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Re: Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?

2021-10-21 Thread Gilson Cesar de Oliveira

Mark:

Here in Brazil we have configured CLSS 3.1 to replace Netview Access.
It is working as expected but there are some difference if you compare 
with Netview Access.
I have to get most of the configuration steps in manuals.

If you need information on how to do it, please let me know.

Regards,

Gilson

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Richards, Robert B. (CTR)
Sent: quinta-feira, 21 de outubro de 2021 11:35
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?

No idea on the number of users, but they upgraded it to 3.1 to fix some issues. 
That is what we have installed.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mark Regan
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?

Bob,

Thanks for the reply. I had looked for one but came up empty. It makes you 
wonder how many customers of CLSS there are. If I was so inclined, I could 
start one on groups.io, where NetView and System Automation are. I created one 
there for Lionel Dyck's XMITIP program, and it has been getting some use.

Regards,

Mark Regan, K8MTR

*CTO1 USNR-Retired, 1969-1991*
*Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017*


On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 10:03 AM Richards, Robert B. (CTR) < 
01c91f408b9e-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Mark,
>
> I am unaware of any user group. Regardless, ask away. If we can 
> answer, we will. 
>
> Bob (CLSS user)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On 
> Behalf Of Mark Regan
> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 9:08 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?
>
> Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user group? If not, are there any 
> users here on IBM-MAIN who can help a new customer with questions 
> about transitioning to it from another vendor's product?
> Regards,
>
> Mark Regan, K8MTR
>
> *CTO1 USNR-Retired, 1969-1991*
> *Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017*
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> --
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread allan winston

Ed,

   I stand corrected.  Thanks for the link to https://ibmdocs.pocnet.net/,
which I was previously unaware of.

   About a week ago, I was looking for BatchPipes manuals and had only
found the main reference manual.  Now
I have added the other manuals to my collection.

  Allan

On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 12:35 PM Ed Jaffe 
wrote:

> On 10/21/2021 9:16 AM, allan winston wrote:
> > When I Google "TSO PIPE", I found that it is a command within Netview.
> > BatchPipes is a completely different program product.
>
> Google Schmoogle...
>
> The message id shown in my example (BPW00256I) is documented in Appendix
> C of IBM BatchPipes OS/390 V2R1 BatchPipeWorks Users Guide:
> https://ibmdocs.pocnet.net/SA22-7457-00.pdf
>
>   READY
> pipe
>   BPW00256I Enter a pipeline specification
>   READY
>
> --
> Phoenix Software International
> Edward E. Jaffe
> 831 Parkview Drive North
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread David Spiegel


I would've said Shmegoogle (a takeoff on Shmegheggi)

On 2021-10-21 12:34, Ed Jaffe wrote:

On 10/21/2021 9:16 AM, allan winston wrote:

When I Google "TSO PIPE", I found that it is a command within Netview.
BatchPipes is a completely different program product.


Google Schmoogle...

The message id shown in my example (BPW00256I) is documented in 
Appendix C of IBM BatchPipes OS/390 V2R1 BatchPipeWorks Users Guide: 
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fibmdocs.pocnet.net%2FSA22-7457-00.pdfdata=04%7C01%7C%7C351110e1c98f4b0dee9f08d994b0bfc8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637704309218589125%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=sWJ8JQQpDqvyK2Bgpeh0GCX1jaUlRwLYxd32dwXwT8s%3Dreserved=0


 READY
pipe
 BPW00256I Enter a pipeline specification
 READY



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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization


On 10/21/2021 9:16 AM, allan winston wrote:

When I Google "TSO PIPE", I found that it is a command within Netview.
BatchPipes is a completely different program product.


Google Schmoogle...

The message id shown in my example (BPW00256I) is documented in Appendix 
C of IBM BatchPipes OS/390 V2R1 BatchPipeWorks Users Guide: 
https://ibmdocs.pocnet.net/SA22-7457-00.pdf


 READY
pipe
 BPW00256I Enter a pipeline specification
 READY

--
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Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread allan winston

When I Google "TSO PIPE", I found that it is a command within Netview.
BatchPipes is a completely different program product.

On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 11:59 AM Ed Jaffe 
wrote:

> On 10/21/2021 8:18 AM, Nash, Jonathan S. wrote:
> > ... I just tried TSO PIPE and it worked
>
>   READY
> pipe
>   BPW00256I Enter a pipeline specification
>   READY
>
> --
> Phoenix Software International
> Edward E. Jaffe
> 831 Parkview Drive North
> El Segundo, CA 90245
> https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
>
>
> 
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization


On 10/21/2021 8:18 AM, Nash, Jonathan S. wrote:

... I just tried TSO PIPE and it worked


 READY
pipe
 BPW00256I Enter a pipeline specification
 READY

--
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Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

Google > replacing mainframe with cloud >> ck the companies statements on 
LEGECY  , BUT PRECISELY pretty much hits the nail on the head when it comes to 
looking at what you have vs going to another platform.



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Nash, Jonathan S.
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **


Some goverment agencies are replacing
their mainframe COBOL with java.
I dont see a payoff. I think this is
driven by contracting companies who
will make money off the conversion and
managers who do not know anything about
programming languages but read somewhere that COBOL is out of date.

Many agencies and companies used to have in house COBOL, JCL, etc training. Now 
they just say they cant find programmers who know COBOL. Most of the people I 
worked with 20 years ago had learned COBOL on the JOB.

Some agencies want to move data bases
from mainframe DB2 to some kind of
cloud data base.

I tried to get Zowe working. No one
is using it here. From what I saw of the interface I like ISPF edit better with 
add in edit macros and REXX EXECs that I learned about on IBM-MAIN. Zowe told 
me it couldnt find java even thought I kept entering the location in what 
looked like the right spot. I gave up. This interface might appeal to kids who 
learn COBOL though.

I used to use smart batch pipes works
in REXX which was nice. I learned about it on IBM-MAIN. Later they shut it off 
and said I was the ONLY one using it in my shop and wanted to know how I leared 
about it.
(IBM-MAIN) I just tried TSO PIPE and it worked so... If IBM is loosing market 
share, perhaps things like smart batch pipes works should be free ?



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Eric D Rossman
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

What kind of "lies- smoke and mirrors" do you see that IBM should be pushing 
back on with our marketing?

I'm just a highly technical crypto guy, so I don't write the marketing copy, 
but you have piqued my interest.

Eric Rossman, CISSP(r)
ICSF Cryptographic Security Development
z/OS Enabling Technologies
edros...@us.ibm.com

"Ron Wells" wrote on 10/21/2021 09:05:05 AM:

> IBM needs to push back in Marketing , be more forceful stop the
> lies- smoke and mirrors


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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread A T & T Management

   I for one believe in the Right tool for the Right Job!  For general purpose 
programming, Cobol does the job.  Java, it has to be translated each time it 
run, provided you know the language and it's been debugged.  Schools may teach 
it but they too want to make money and look good because they can say it's 
modern and that is what they push.  Any CEO or executive who doesn't look at 
the total cost is doomed to fail.

On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 10:46:27 AM EDT, Eric D Rossman 
 wrote:  

 What kind of "lies- smoke and mirrors" do you see that IBM should be 
pushing back on with our marketing?

I'm just a highly technical crypto guy, so I don't write the marketing 
copy, but you have piqued my interest.

Eric Rossman, CISSP®
ICSF Cryptographic Security Development
z/OS Enabling Technologies
edros...@us.ibm.com

"Ron Wells" wrote on 10/21/2021 09:05:05 AM:

> IBM needs to push back in Marketing , be more forceful stop the 
> lies- smoke and mirrors

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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread Nash, Jonathan S.

Some goverment agencies are replacing
their mainframe COBOL with java.
I dont see a payoff. I think this is
driven by contracting companies who 
will make money off the conversion and
managers who do not know anything about
programming languages but read somewhere
that COBOL is out of date. 

Many agencies and companies used to have
in house COBOL, JCL, etc training. Now 
they just say they cant find programmers
who know COBOL. Most of the people I worked
with 20 years ago had learned COBOL on the
JOB. 

Some agencies want to move data bases 
from mainframe DB2 to some kind of
cloud data base.

I tried to get Zowe working. No one
is using it here. From what I saw of the
interface I like ISPF edit better with 
add in edit macros and REXX EXECs that 
I learned about on IBM-MAIN. Zowe told
me it couldnt find java even thought I
kept entering the location in what looked
like the right spot. I gave up. This interface
might appeal to kids who learn COBOL though. 

I used to use smart batch pipes works 
in REXX which was nice. I learned about it
on IBM-MAIN. Later they shut it off and said
I was the ONLY one using it in my shop and
wanted to know how I leared about it. 
(IBM-MAIN) I just tried TSO PIPE and it worked
so... If IBM is loosing market share, perhaps
things like smart batch pipes works should 
be free ?



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Eric D Rossman
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Mainframe Modernization

What kind of "lies- smoke and mirrors" do you see that IBM should be 
pushing back on with our marketing?

I'm just a highly technical crypto guy, so I don't write the marketing 
copy, but you have piqued my interest.

Eric Rossman, CISSP(r)
ICSF Cryptographic Security Development
z/OS Enabling Technologies
edros...@us.ibm.com

"Ron Wells" wrote on 10/21/2021 09:05:05 AM:

> IBM needs to push back in Marketing , be more forceful stop the 
> lies- smoke and mirrors


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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread Eric D Rossman

What kind of "lies- smoke and mirrors" do you see that IBM should be 
pushing back on with our marketing?

I'm just a highly technical crypto guy, so I don't write the marketing 
copy, but you have piqued my interest.

Eric Rossman, CISSP®
ICSF Cryptographic Security Development
z/OS Enabling Technologies
edros...@us.ibm.com

"Ron Wells" wrote on 10/21/2021 09:05:05 AM:

> IBM needs to push back in Marketing , be more forceful stop the 
> lies- smoke and mirrors


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Re: Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?

2021-10-21 Thread Richards, Robert B. (CTR)

No idea on the number of users, but they upgraded it to 3.1 to fix some issues. 
That is what we have installed.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mark Regan
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 10:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?

Bob,

Thanks for the reply. I had looked for one but came up empty. It makes you 
wonder how many customers of CLSS there are. If I was so inclined, I could 
start one on groups.io, where NetView and System Automation are. I created one 
there for Lionel Dyck's XMITIP program, and it has been getting some use.

Regards,

Mark Regan, K8MTR

*CTO1 USNR-Retired, 1969-1991*
*Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017*


On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 10:03 AM Richards, Robert B. (CTR) < 
01c91f408b9e-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Mark,
>
> I am unaware of any user group. Regardless, ask away. If we can 
> answer, we will. 
>
> Bob (CLSS user)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On 
> Behalf Of Mark Regan
> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 9:08 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?
>
> Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user group? If not, are there any 
> users here on IBM-MAIN who can help a new customer with questions 
> about transitioning to it from another vendor's product?
> Regards,
>
> Mark Regan, K8MTR
>
> *CTO1 USNR-Retired, 1969-1991*
> *Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017*
>
> --
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

Unfortunate but true -- causing more irritation than solving real problems , 
BAD programming (making any platform look bad)

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Tony Thigpen
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 9:22 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **


Ron,
My opinion is that IBM is just as bad now that they are 'cloud eccentric'. 
(Yes, play on words, not a misspelling.)

Tony Thigpen

Ron Wells wrote on 10/21/21 9:05 AM:
> IBM needs to push back in Marketing , be more forceful stop the lies-
> smoke and mirrors
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Ron Wells
> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:03 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization
>
> ** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
>
>
> Agree-
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:02 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization
>
> ** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
>
>
> Understanding TCO is extremely important, yet frequently overlooked. 
> Management sometimes doesn’t care or isn’t smart enough to determine it. My 
> last boss only cared about initial cost, which he could take to his boss and 
> say “see, I saved you $10,000” even though in 5 years he likely cost the 
> company $50,000 in lost productivity, downtime, or other issues he didn’t 
> factor in. Of course, my last boss was a Unix guy with zero knowledge of the 
> mainframe and no desire to learn or take recommendations from his mainframe 
> staff of 5 who combined had almost 200 years of experience.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 8:44 AM, Ron Wells 
> <02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Marketing BS for the UNEDUCATED MGNT that only look at the $$ and does not 
> know or understand TRUE TCO.
> %
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of David Elliot
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:50 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Mainframe Modernization
>
> ** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
>
>
> Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe 
> Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you ask 
> exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is silence. 
> As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
> Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?
>
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread Tony Thigpen


Ron,
My opinion is that IBM is just as bad now that they are 'cloud 
eccentric'. (Yes, play on words, not a misspelling.)


Tony Thigpen

Ron Wells wrote on 10/21/21 9:05 AM:

IBM needs to push back in Marketing , be more forceful stop the lies- smoke and 
mirrors

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Ron 
Wells
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **


Agree-

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **


Understanding TCO is extremely important, yet frequently overlooked. Management 
sometimes doesn’t care or isn’t smart enough to determine it. My last boss only 
cared about initial cost, which he could take to his boss and say “see, I saved 
you $10,000” even though in 5 years he likely cost the company $50,000 in lost 
productivity, downtime, or other issues he didn’t factor in. Of course, my last 
boss was a Unix guy with zero knowledge of the mainframe and no desire to learn 
or take recommendations from his mainframe staff of 5 who combined had almost 
200 years of experience.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 8:44 AM, Ron Wells 
<02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Marketing BS for the UNEDUCATED MGNT that only look at the $$ and does not know 
or understand TRUE TCO.
%
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Elliot
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **


Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe Modernization' 
'? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you ask exactly how they propose to 
modernize their systems all you get is silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't 
even be talking about it.
Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

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Re: Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?

2021-10-21 Thread Mark Regan

Bob,

Thanks for the reply. I had looked for one but came up empty. It makes you
wonder how many customers of CLSS there are. If I was so inclined, I could
start one on groups.io, where NetView and System Automation are. I created
one there for Lionel Dyck's XMITIP program, and it has been getting some
use.

Regards,

Mark Regan, K8MTR

*CTO1 USNR-Retired, 1969-1991*
*Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017*


On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 10:03 AM Richards, Robert B. (CTR) <
01c91f408b9e-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Mark,
>
> I am unaware of any user group. Regardless, ask away. If we can answer, we
> will. 
>
> Bob (CLSS user)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Mark Regan
> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 9:08 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?
>
> Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user group? If not, are there any users
> here on IBM-MAIN who can help a new customer with questions about
> transitioning to it from another vendor's product?
> Regards,
>
> Mark Regan, K8MTR
>
> *CTO1 USNR-Retired, 1969-1991*
> *Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017*
>
> --
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread kekronbekron

Okay, thanks for clarifying.
Always good to be learning.

But yeah, it's scenarios like that (release-based builds) where automation and 
GitHub-ing things help.
When an actively maintained clone of PARMLIB, etc. are kept in GitHub, code 
reviews are a dream.
Ex: What changed since the last IPL, is just a matter of comparing 2 different 
commits.
Colored and all that.

- KB

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Thursday, October 21st, 2021 at 7:30 PM, Ed Jaffe 
 wrote:

> On 10/21/2021 6:37 AM, kekronbekron wrote:
>
> > It's this kind of scenario that this woke-nizing the mainframe is supposed 
> > to actually help with.
> >
> > That is, release-based automated builds, and to automatically, easily 
> > maintain different binaries/versions.
> >
> > Your customers with newer software don't need to be 'punished with' 
> > binaries made for/from older Java, when newer Java versions might offer 
> > some sort of instruction-level enhancements.
> >
> > Don't know if that makes sense in the way I'm hoping it will... let me know.
>
> Not really. Compiled Java (no matter what level) is just byte code that
>
> is interpreted at execution time or -- if discovered to be "hot" enough
>
> -- Just-In-Time compiled with a  highly-advanced optimizer that targets
>
> the hardware it is running on.
>
> 
>
> Phoenix Software International
>
> Edward E. Jaffe
>
> 831 Parkview Drive North
>
> El Segundo, CA 90245
>
> https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
>
> ---
>
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
>
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>
> recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
>
> received this email message in error, any use, dissemination, distribution,
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> review, storage or copying of this e-mail message and the information
>
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Re: Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?

2021-10-21 Thread Richards, Robert B. (CTR)

Mark,

I am unaware of any user group. Regardless, ask away. If we can answer, we 
will. 

Bob (CLSS user)

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mark Regan
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 9:08 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?

Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user group? If not, are there any users here 
on IBM-MAIN who can help a new customer with questions about transitioning to 
it from another vendor's product?
Regards,

Mark Regan, K8MTR

*CTO1 USNR-Retired, 1969-1991*
*Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017*

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Re: Mainframe Modernization


On 10/21/2021 6:37 AM, kekronbekron wrote:

It's this kind of scenario that this woke-nizing the mainframe is supposed to 
actually help with.
That is, release-based automated builds, and to automatically, easily maintain 
different binaries/versions.

Your customers with newer software don't need to be 'punished with' binaries 
made for/from older Java, when newer Java versions might offer some sort of 
instruction-level enhancements.

Don't know if that makes sense in the way I'm hoping it will... let me know.


Not really. Compiled Java (no matter what level) is just byte code that 
is interpreted at execution time or -- if discovered to be "hot" enough 
-- Just-In-Time compiled with a  highly-advanced optimizer that targets 
the hardware it is running on.


--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread John McKown

All that seems to matter today is This Quarter to most managers. OTOH,
there are the ones who are sold on platform "X" (usually Windows) for all
I.T. functions because a single platform is more efficient to manage. My
employer is convinced that one single software product, Facets, can be the
platform/framework for all software we run. Gonna be fun.

On Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 08:02 Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Understanding TCO is extremely important, yet frequently overlooked.
> Management sometimes doesn’t care or isn’t smart enough to determine it. My
> last boss only cared about initial cost, which he could take to his boss
> and say “see, I saved you $10,000” even though in 5 years he likely cost
> the company $50,000 in lost productivity, downtime, or other issues he
> didn’t factor in. Of course, my last boss was a Unix guy with zero
> knowledge of the mainframe and no desire to learn or take recommendations
> from his mainframe staff of 5 who combined had almost 200 years of
> experience.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 8:44 AM, Ron Wells <
> 02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Marketing BS for the UNEDUCATED MGNT that only look at the $$ and does not
> know or understand TRUE TCO.
> %
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of David Elliot
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:50 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Mainframe Modernization
>
> ** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
>
>
> Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe
> Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you
> ask exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is
> silence. As in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
> Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email
> to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
> Email Disclaimer
>
> This E-mail contains confidential information belonging to the sender,
> which may be legally privileged information. This information is intended
> only for the use of the individual or entity addressed above. If you are
> not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

I should not have picked on Java, but you may understand my irritation.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Ed 
Jaffe
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **

On 10/21/2021 5:39 AM, Ron Wells wrote:
> Like reinventing a wheel and all they do is add complexity , as example 
> Java..another moving target, write something for it, change rel. BANG does 
> not work. Like Windows, if IBM did this, they would have been out of the Boz 
> decades ago.

We love Java on IBM Z and we have not experienced the incompatibility issues 
you're describing. We started back in 2013 on Java 6 and that same code is 
still working perfectly today under Java 8. We target Java
6 in the compile to ensure backward compatibility with the oldest Java 
available for the oldest z/OS operating systems supported by the oldest 
supported releases of our software products (at the moment that is z/OS 2.1). 
We find that approach easier than setting the target individually for every 
release, though that could be done if we needed some feature not available in 
Java 6.

Of course, it's always possible there could be changes required when z/OS Java 
11 finally gets released.. hopefully later this year. If we experience any 
incompatibilities, I will update this thread with our findings.

FWIW, we also have some old COBOL programs from an acquired product that needed 
some minor changes to allow them to compile under COBOL 6.x.

--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.phoenixsoftware.com%2Fdata=04%7C01%7CRon.Wells%40OMF.COM%7C8bb7e681d66a4fc3c89108d994947a8a%7C57c0053cb5f84a1e8bb6e8afa09f3b82%7C0%7C0%7C637704187707350903%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=JchgLW%2BU4YCqaBYUqsyuo%2B8acOb00n3du8P9yUAnmdI%3Dreserved=0

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

2021-10-21 Thread kekronbekron

It's this kind of scenario that this woke-nizing the mainframe is supposed to 
actually help with.
That is, release-based automated builds, and to automatically, easily maintain 
different binaries/versions.

Your customers with newer software don't need to be 'punished with' binaries 
made for/from older Java, when newer Java versions might offer some sort of 
instruction-level enhancements.

Don't know if that makes sense in the way I'm hoping it will... let me know.

- KB

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Thursday, October 21st, 2021 at 6:42 PM, Ed Jaffe 
 wrote:

> On 10/21/2021 5:39 AM, Ron Wells wrote:
>
> > Like reinventing a wheel and all they do is add complexity , as example 
> > Java..another moving target, write something for it, change rel. BANG does 
> > not work. Like Windows, if IBM did this, they would have been out of the 
> > Boz decades ago.
>
> We love Java on IBM Z and we have not experienced the incompatibility
>
> issues you're describing. We started back in 2013 on Java 6 and that
>
> same code is still working perfectly today under Java 8. We target Java
>
> 6 in the compile to ensure backward compatibility with the oldest Java
>
> available for the oldest z/OS operating systems supported by the oldest
>
> supported releases of our software products (at the moment that is z/OS
>
> 2.1). We find that approach easier than setting the target individually
>
> for every release, though that could be done if we needed some feature
>
> not available in Java 6.
>
> Of course, it's always possible there could be changes required when
>
> z/OS Java 11 finally gets released.. hopefully later this year. If we
>
> experience any incompatibilities, I will update this thread with our
>
> findings.
>
> FWIW, we also have some old COBOL programs from an acquired product that
>
> needed some minor changes to allow them to compile under COBOL 6.x.
>
> -
>
> Phoenix Software International
>
> Edward E. Jaffe
>
> 831 Parkview Drive North
>
> El Segundo, CA 90245
>
> https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/
>
>
> ---
>
> This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
>
> information contained therein, is for the sole use of the intended
>
> recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient or have otherwise
>
> received this email message in error, any use, dissemination, distribution,
>
> review, storage or copying of this e-mail message and the information
>
> contained therein is strictly prohibited. If you are not an intended
>
> recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies
>
> of this email message and do not otherwise utilize or retain this email
>
> message or any or all of the information contained therein. Although this
>
> email message and any attachments or appended messages are believed to be
>
> free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into
>
> which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient
>
> to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by the
>
> sender for any loss or damage arising in any way from its opening or use.
>
>

Re: Mainframe Modernization


On 10/21/2021 5:39 AM, Ron Wells wrote:

Like reinventing a wheel and all they do is add complexity , as example 
Java..another moving target, write something for it, change rel. BANG does not 
work. Like Windows, if IBM did this, they would have been out of the Boz 
decades ago.


We love Java on IBM Z and we have not experienced the incompatibility 
issues you're describing. We started back in 2013 on Java 6 and that 
same code is still working perfectly today under Java 8. We target Java 
6 in the compile to ensure backward compatibility with the oldest Java 
available for the oldest z/OS operating systems supported by the oldest 
supported releases of our software products (at the moment that is z/OS 
2.1). We find that approach easier than setting the target individually 
for every release, though that could be done if we needed some feature 
not available in Java 6.


Of course, it's always possible there could be changes required when 
z/OS Java 11 finally gets released.. hopefully later this year. If we 
experience any incompatibilities, I will update this thread with our 
findings.


FWIW, we also have some old COBOL programs from an acquired product that 
needed some minor changes to allow them to compile under COBOL 6.x.


--
Phoenix Software International
Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/



This e-mail message, including any attachments, appended messages and the
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Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user's group?

2021-10-21 Thread Mark Regan

Is there a CL/SuperSession (CLSS) user group? If not, are there any users
here on IBM-MAIN who can help a new customer with questions about
transitioning to it from another vendor's product?
Regards,

Mark Regan, K8MTR

*CTO1 USNR-Retired, 1969-1991*
*Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017*

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

IBM needs to push back in Marketing , be more forceful stop the lies- smoke and 
mirrors

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Ron 
Wells
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **

Agree-

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **

Understanding TCO is extremely important, yet frequently overlooked. Management 
sometimes doesn’t care or isn’t smart enough to determine it. My last boss only 
cared about initial cost, which he could take to his boss and say “see, I saved 
you $10,000” even though in 5 years he likely cost the company $50,000 in lost 
productivity, downtime, or other issues he didn’t factor in. Of course, my last 
boss was a Unix guy with zero knowledge of the mainframe and no desire to learn 
or take recommendations from his mainframe staff of 5 who combined had almost 
200 years of experience.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 8:44 AM, Ron Wells 
<02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Marketing BS for the UNEDUCATED MGNT that only look at the $$ and does not know 
or understand TRUE TCO.
%
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Elliot
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **

Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe 
Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you ask 
exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is silence. As 
in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

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Re: Mainframe Modernization

Agree-

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2021 8:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Mainframe Modernization

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Understanding TCO is extremely important, yet frequently overlooked. Management 
sometimes doesn’t care or isn’t smart enough to determine it. My last boss only 
cared about initial cost, which he could take to his boss and say “see, I saved 
you $10,000” even though in 5 years he likely cost the company $50,000 in lost 
productivity, downtime, or other issues he didn’t factor in. Of course, my last 
boss was a Unix guy with zero knowledge of the mainframe and no desire to learn 
or take recommendations from his mainframe staff of 5 who combined had almost 
200 years of experience.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 8:44 AM, Ron Wells 
<02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Marketing BS for the UNEDUCATED MGNT that only look at the $$ and does not know 
or understand TRUE TCO.
%
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Elliot
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **

Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe 
Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you ask 
exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is silence. As 
in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

--
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Re: Mainframe Modernization

Understanding TCO is extremely important, yet frequently overlooked. Management 
sometimes doesn’t care or isn’t smart enough to determine it. My last boss only 
cared about initial cost, which he could take to his boss and say “see, I saved 
you $10,000” even though in 5 years he likely cost the company $50,000 in lost 
productivity, downtime, or other issues he didn’t factor in. Of course, my last 
boss was a Unix guy with zero knowledge of the mainframe and no desire to learn 
or take recommendations from his mainframe staff of 5 who combined had almost 
200 years of experience.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 21, 2021, 8:44 AM, Ron Wells 
<02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Marketing BS for the UNEDUCATED MGNT that only look at the $$ and does not know 
or understand TRUE TCO.
%
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Elliot
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **


Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe 
Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you ask 
exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is silence. As 
in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


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Re: Vector examples?

2021-10-21 Thread Bill Ogden

G'day Bill,

Is there a typo in your program?

I changed

 VL   1,VEC2

to

 VL   1,VEC1

and got the expected results.

Peter

-

You are quite correct. My old fingers no longer hit the right keys!

Bill Ogden


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Re: Mainframe Modernization

Marketing BS for the UNEDUCATED MGNT that only look at the $$ and does not know 
or understand TRUE TCO.
%
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Elliot
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Mainframe Modernization

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **

Does anyone out there know what is meant by the expression "Mainframe 
Modernization' '? It seems  to be catching on with the Bobs but when you ask 
exactly how they propose to modernize their systems all you get is silence. As 
in if you don"know we shouldn't even be talking about it.
Any ideas ? Or is it just more BS like 'cloud' or 'devops'?

--
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Re: Mainframe Modernization