Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
Funny about HLASM, crucial book but sometimes hard to find. Fortunatlely, it should be, assuming you want the reference, downloadable at the Pubs Center searching on : SC26-4940-05 If you need more context, all of these PKITs contain the above and other related information germane to HLASM: PKIT Pubno: SK2T236413 Title : HLASM for z/OS z/VM z/VSE R6 Online Product Library PKIT Pubno: SK3T354704 Title : HLASM for z/OS z/VM z/VSE R6 PDFs PKIT Pubno: SK3T-4306-31 Title : z/OS V1R13.0 Planning and Installation Online Product Bois Title: HLASM for z/OS z/VM z/VSE R6 Toolkit Install Customize PKIT Pubno: SK3T-4325-29 Title : z/OS V1R13.0 Commands Online Product Library Bois Title: HLASM for z/OS z/VM z/VSE R6 Toolkit IDF User's Guide PKIT Pubno: SK3T-8316-23 Title : z/OS V1R13.0 Messages and Codes Books Online Product Library Bois Title: HLASM for z/OS z/VM z/VSE R6 Toolkit IDF User's Guide PKIT Pubno: SK3T-8347-18 Title : LookAt for z/OS V1R13.0 and Software Products ( April Bois Title: HLASM for z/OS z/VM z/VSE R6 Toolkit IDF User's Guide PKIT Pubno: SK3T-8354-17 Title : z/OS V1R13.0 Commands PDFs Bois Title: HLASM for z/OS z/VM z/VSE R6 Toolkit IDF User's Guide PKIT Pubno: SK3T-8355-16 Title : z/OS V1R13.0 Messages and Codes Books PDFs Bois Title: HLASM for z/OS z/VM z/VSE R6 Toolkit IDF User's Guide PKIT Pubno: SK3T-8356-17 Title : z/OS V1R13.0 Planning and Installation PDFs Bois Title: HLASM for z/OS z/VM z/VSE R6 Toolkit Install Customize -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
Kevin Minerly's notion of searching on the publication number for the HLASM LR has some but not a lot of merit. One needs to but does not always know that number; and for the HLASM there is the problem that documents for version 1.6 of the HLASM have the document number suffix -05. Fortunately, RR in, say, SC26-4940-RR is optional on the IBM Publications Center 'search for document' screen; and it should usually, I think, be omitted when the publication number is known and used. Without the publication number one can search on, say, HLASM Language Reference and doing so yields the appropriate results; title information can be fragmentary. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:10:32 -0600, Kevin Minerley wrote: Funny about HLASM, crucial book but sometimes hard to find. Ha ha ha. I'm laughing. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
On 28 January 2013 13:03, Don Williams donb...@gmail.com wrote: I admit it, I'm lazy. I love the entire bookshelf search feature. However, more and more books are available only in PDF format. I'm unhappy (stronger words would need to censored) that I cannot search an entire extended bookshelf on my on PC. Several years ago, I complained to IBM about the lack of a extended bookshelf search and that more and more books where available only in PDF format. I was told that IBM was working on a solution to that (Product Information Centers). And I have a feeling that IBM is considering making manuals available only via that venue. That way IBM could monitor what you read and provide you customized information (i.e. ads). There was another great tool for searching: Google Desktop. It happily indexes PDFs and many other file types on a desktop machine, and responds quickly, online or off. (It runs a tiny web server right on your machine.) Much to my amazement, when I installed Windows 7 a year or so ago, Google Desktop was gone - discontinued because modern desktop operating systems already have search built in. Sure - ever tried to get Windows search to find anything with even slightly subtle search arguments? The funny part is that Google Desktop still works just fine if it's already installed, and you can even install it on a new system, but there's no more Google support. And of course who knows what security holes there may be... Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 15:10:52 -0500, Tony Harminc t...@harminc.net wrote: The funny part is that Google Desktop still works just fine if it's already installed, and you can even install it on a new system, but there's no more Google support. And of course who knows what security holes there may be... Tony H. I hesitated to post - this is OT for IBM-MAIN, but I use it still on WIN7. The problem is I can't index network SHAREs to work with win-doze search and there are lan drives / folders my team uses to store docs etc. that I like to be able to find easily. Even besides that I still prefer Google Desktop and was sorry to see them get out of that space. Mark -- Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS mailto:m...@mzelden.com Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
Charles Mills wrote: The problem for me starts with the incredibly inconsistent titling, which causes the manual titles to sort in no meaningful sequence, making it doubly hard to find the relevant manual. Many of the IBM bookshelves have this problem, but DFSMS is IMHO the worst. Look at the list below and tell me quick, which one of these manuals will tell you how to use the IDCAMS utility to delete all members of a PDS(E)? z/OS DFSMS Software Support for IBM System Storage TS1130 and TS1120 Tape Drives (3592)SC26-7514-04 snip While I do recognize the problems (who wouldn't?), I must express considerable sympathy for the writers and editors. Why? They cannot win. A comprehensive reorganization of the library could easily cause people who are experienced in a particular area of the system to stumble about for years while perhaps simplifying things for the less experienced in any given area. At the same time, leaving things as-is keeps people who know how to find what they need happier, perhaps at the expense of people who do not. However, the library's organization is not the only way to approach things. The search arguement z/os delete all members of a pds, which I happened to try first on Google, yielded this URL at the top of the results list (watch the wrap): http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/zos/v1r13/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.ibm.zos.r13.idak100%2Famspdse12.htm The topic it points to is Using the access method services DELETE command to delete all members of a PDS or PDSE. That same topic is the third hit with the second argument I tried, which was how do I delete all members of a pds? It rises back to the top with my third try, how do I delete all members of a pds on z/OS? This is not meant to excuse anything, but it seems an effective coping strategy that is reasonably independent of how we might choose to organize the information. YMMV, of course. -- John Eells z/OS Technical Marketing IBM Poughkeepsie ee...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
John Eels has, as usual, said something sensible. GIYF is never bad advice, and here it is apposite, but it is also perilously close to a counsel of dispair. Surely some order---and if not order coherent disorder--can be introduced into the titles of IBM's technical publications. The problem was more severe when hard copies of these manuals were the norm, but for on-line search it should certainly be possible to supply references from obsolescent|obsolete titles and publication numbers to new ones. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
Thanks, John. I think this is a classic example of what I think is a major obstacle standing in the way of the Z system: the answer is easy to find, assuming you already know it. You see, I did not think of my problem as how do I delete all of the members of a PDS? I already knew how to do that. (For a small PDS, 3.1 and D line commands; and for a larger PDS, I would use 3.2 to delete and re-create.) My problem was how do I issue a STOW I without having to write a program? Yes, I might have used Google once I had Lizette's suggestion of using AMS, but FWIW I turned instead to the IBM tool Softcopy Reader. My complaint was about the doc there, not about Google. I think the DFSMS doc team could make the version numbering not muck up the collation without upsetting existing users. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Eells Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 6:57 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?) Charles Mills wrote: The problem for me starts with the incredibly inconsistent titling, which causes the manual titles to sort in no meaningful sequence, making it doubly hard to find the relevant manual. Many of the IBM bookshelves have this problem, but DFSMS is IMHO the worst. Look at the list below and tell me quick, which one of these manuals will tell you how to use the IDCAMS utility to delete all members of a PDS(E)? z/OS DFSMS Software Support for IBM System Storage TS1130 and TS1120 Tape Drives (3592) SC26-7514-04 snip While I do recognize the problems (who wouldn't?), I must express considerable sympathy for the writers and editors. Why? They cannot win. A comprehensive reorganization of the library could easily cause people who are experienced in a particular area of the system to stumble about for years while perhaps simplifying things for the less experienced in any given area. At the same time, leaving things as-is keeps people who know how to find what they need happier, perhaps at the expense of people who do not. However, the library's organization is not the only way to approach things. The search arguement z/os delete all members of a pds, which I happened to try first on Google, yielded this URL at the top of the results list (watch the wrap): http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/zos/v1r13/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.ibm.zos.r13.idak100%2Famspdse12.htm -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
I admit it, I'm lazy. I love the entire bookshelf search feature. However, more and more books are available only in PDF format. I'm unhappy (stronger words would need to censored) that I cannot search an entire extended bookshelf on my on PC. Several years ago, I complained to IBM about the lack of a extended bookshelf search and that more and more books where available only in PDF format. I was told that IBM was working on a solution to that (Product Information Centers). And I have a feeling that IBM is considering making manuals available only via that venue. That way IBM could monitor what you read and provide you customized information (i.e. ads). Don -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:43 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?) One consulted the relevant high-quality master index Or, lacking even enough of a clue to know what sub-product one needed to use, the KWIC (Key Word in Context) index to (believe it or not!) *all* IBM OS/360 publications. On a related topic, am I the only person who accesses the IBM manuals primarily through the Windows IBM Softcopy Reader? It has a very useful entire bookshelf search feature (which is in fact how I finally managed to track down the doc for IDCAMS DELETE). However, the search feature only works on BookManager type shelves, not Extended (which is what the rest of the world calls PDF) shelves. I understand that BookManager books are going away in favor of only PDFs -- is that right? (I notice I have only PDF documents for DB2 V10 although perhaps that is some oversight on my part.) Assuming I am not confused on BookManager shelves going away, how does one now do an all-bookshelf search? Only via the Web? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:37 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?) Anciently, there was help in addressing the sort of problem Charles confronted. One consulted the relevant high-quality master index, which told one which publications treated a topic and provided the page numbers of these treatments. Master indices have not been eliminated definitively, but IBM does seem to have cut back very significantly on their production. The relevant one here: DFSMS/MVS Master Index, GC26-4904-00 has not been updated since September 24, 1999, the date of its original publication. Why, I wonder, has this happened? Are they judged too bookish in the age of the internet? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
XKS or eXtended shelf search when the individual content has been indexed with the ALS (advanced linguistic search), does work well as it follows many of the patterns as the BookManager search. The problem is getting everyone to ALS index each component pub that goes out in PDF form. We now have a check in place that will suggest that the content owner do this indexing when it's ready to go on the final deployment server. We do this check on many of the books that come from a common internal tooling framework. The result will be starting to show up in the field in 2013. The base library of zOS has had this for quite awhile. We are not able to enforce content owners indexing. Those content owners who do ICs only, do not necessarily provide PDFs. All that said, the corporate direction is Information Centers and any follow-on to information centers. Kevin Minerley LookAt architect from its inception Softcopy lead for zOS, zVM, zVSE (was on original team; brought back on after a decade long hiatus). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
I don't know much about Information Center. But I would likely be tempted to use wget or curl to clone the entire web site. Probably not within IBM's terms of service, but there are ways to slow down the cloning so that it does not swamp the site. However, once I had done that, I don't really know what I'd do with the data. Part of my dislike is that I sometimes just don't get the best response time. Of course, the Internet does not have any kind of guaranteed quality of service. Too many different paths possible. Another thing I don't like is being dependent on _our_ LAN people for Internet access. Especially during off hours, like the weekends. -- Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
On 1/28/2013 10:29 AM, John McKown wrote: I don't know much about Information Center. But I would likely be tempted to use wget or curl to clone the entire web site. Probably not within IBM's terms of service, but there are ways to slow down the cloning so that it does not swamp the site. However, once I had done that, I don't really know what I'd do with the data. Part of my dislike is that I sometimes just don't get the best response time. Of course, the Internet does not have any kind of guaranteed quality of service. Too many different paths possible. Another thing I don't like is being dependent on _our_ LAN people for Internet access. Especially during off hours, like the weekends. We run an InfoCenter on z/OS. It has many of IBM's books as well as ours. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
From: Don Williams donb...@gmail.com Date: 01/28/2013 12:10 PM I admit it, I'm lazy. I love the entire bookshelf search feature. However, more and more books are available only in PDF format. I'm unhappy (stronger words would need to censored) that I cannot search an entire extended bookshelf on my on PC. Several years ago, I complained to IBM about the lack of a extended bookshelf search and that more and more books where available only in PDF format. SNIPPAGE I use Adobe Reader. It has a find function that works within a document. It also has a SEARCH feature that acts on a directory. I make large use of search when I need to know something that I know is not in an index. And, yes, I actually do download the whole pdf list to my computer. It comes in very handy when I am on a flight, or otherwise do not have Internet access and am trying to figure out how to do something. Regards, Steve Thompson Opinions expressed by this poster do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of poster's employer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
How did you get the pages? Is there a zip file available from IBM. Or did you some some method to clone the actual site? What I would _love_ is for IBM to maintain the site in such a way as to allow others to easily clone it, as well as freshen their clone. OK, what I would like is a standard git repository. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(software) IMO, it is excellent. Of course, all I can compare it with is CA-Endevor, which makes me shudder, but z/OS SCMs tend to be a bit primitive compared to what I use on Linux. At least, in my not-so-humble opinion. On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: On 1/28/2013 10:29 AM, John McKown wrote: I don't know much about Information Center. But I would likely be tempted to use wget or curl to clone the entire web site. Probably not within IBM's terms of service, but there are ways to slow down the cloning so that it does not swamp the site. However, once I had done that, I don't really know what I'd do with the data. Part of my dislike is that I sometimes just don't get the best response time. Of course, the Internet does not have any kind of guaranteed quality of service. Too many different paths possible. Another thing I don't like is being dependent on _our_ LAN people for Internet access. Especially during off hours, like the weekends. We run an InfoCenter on z/OS. It has many of IBM's books as well as ours. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
No need to curl or wget. The entire sk3t4271 latest edition is downloadable from the Pubs Center. Each pkit (you'd think of them as xks or bks) is also downloadable SEPARATELY from the Pubs Center if you prefer to mix and match. You will need a modern zip utility for the full thing (what was called the collection kit or ckit) as it weighs in at ~7gb. The older zip utility on z will not handle it. If you want a list of the pkit order numbers to ease searching in the Pubs Center (http://www-05.ibm.com/e-business/linkweb/publications/servlet/pbi.wss), send me email. Kevin Minerley (k60ek...@us.ibm.com) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
Many thanks! On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Kevin Minerley k60ek...@us.ibm.com wrote: No need to curl or wget. The entire sk3t4271 latest edition is downloadable from the Pubs Center. Each pkit (you'd think of them as xks or bks) is also downloadable SEPARATELY from the Pubs Center if you prefer to mix and match. You will need a modern zip utility for the full thing (what was called the collection kit or ckit) as it weighs in at ~7gb. The older zip utility on z will not handle it. If you want a list of the pkit order numbers to ease searching in the Pubs Center (http://www-05.ibm.com/e-business/linkweb/publications/servlet/pbi.wss), send me email. Kevin Minerley (k60ek...@us.ibm.com) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
Hum, I can't find a place to order a pkit, only individual publications. And, not to come across as cheap (tho I am), the main site seems to indicate that I'll need to pay for the manuals. On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 1:35 PM, John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com wrote: Many thanks! On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Kevin Minerley k60ek...@us.ibm.com wrote: No need to curl or wget. The entire sk3t4271 latest edition is downloadable from the Pubs Center. Each pkit (you'd think of them as xks or bks) is also downloadable SEPARATELY from the Pubs Center if you prefer to mix and match. You will need a modern zip utility for the full thing (what was called the collection kit or ckit) as it weighs in at ~7gb. The older zip utility on z will not handle it. If you want a list of the pkit order numbers to ease searching in the Pubs Center (http://www-05.ibm.com/e-business/linkweb/publications/servlet/pbi.wss), send me email. Kevin Minerley (k60ek...@us.ibm.com) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Maranatha! John McKown -- Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
I did mention if you need the order number for a particular PKIT to email me ;-) PKIT order numbers were not published until this year. They are usually free for the download (physical media, if available, would be a charge -- most do NOT have physical media these days). For example, the popular z/OS V1R13.0 MVS PDFs shelf which has 76 of the most used BCP (did I show my age) books is SK3T427530. I think the final leaf of the pubs center url for that is: http://www-05.ibm.com/e-business/linkweb/publications/servlet/pbi.wss?SSN=13A1T0012892229152FNC=PBLPBL=SK3T-4275-30PBCEEBO200022077TRL=TXTSRH (If you wanted the bookmanager books, that would be sk3t427630). There are 437 separate pkits (or bks/xks's) on the zos ckit in the last edition. If you want the whole megillah sk3t427130 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
Hi Steve. The last time I used the Adobe directory search, it took more time than I had patience. I have many hundreds of manuals. I'm too impatient, so I think it probably needs an index in order to be quick enough. Don -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Thompson Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 1:51 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?) From: Don Williams donb...@gmail.com Date: 01/28/2013 12:10 PM I admit it, I'm lazy. I love the entire bookshelf search feature. However, more and more books are available only in PDF format. I'm unhappy (stronger words would need to censored) that I cannot search an entire extended bookshelf on my on PC. Several years ago, I complained to IBM about the lack of a extended bookshelf search and that more and more books where available only in PDF format. SNIPPAGE I use Adobe Reader. It has a find function that works within a document. It also has a SEARCH feature that acts on a directory. I make large use of search when I need to know something that I know is not in an index. And, yes, I actually do download the whole pdf list to my computer. It comes in very handy when I am on a flight, or otherwise do not have Internet access and am trying to figure out how to do something. Regards, Steve Thompson Opinions expressed by this poster do not necessarily reflect the opinions or positions of poster's employer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
Bet if you tried it on only the z/OS V1R13.0 MVS PDFs SK3T427530 PDF shelf (or others among the classic elements and some of the features), you will find the search almost as fast as the BookManager search as they are indexed. Most applications are not (yet) Kevin Minerley -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
Hi John, I employ the same strategy you related. Google seems to do quite well with the question format. When Google doesn't give the results I want, I add site:IBM.com or site:redbooks.IBM.com on to the search. Linda Sent from my iPhone On Jan 28, 2013, at 6:57 AM, John Eells ee...@us.ibm.com wrote: Charles Mills wrote: The problem for me starts with the incredibly inconsistent titling, which causes the manual titles to sort in no meaningful sequence, making it doubly hard to find the relevant manual. Many of the IBM bookshelves have this problem, but DFSMS is IMHO the worst. Look at the list below and tell me quick, which one of these manuals will tell you how to use the IDCAMS utility to delete all members of a PDS(E)? z/OS DFSMS Software Support for IBM System Storage TS1130 and TS1120 Tape Drives (3592)SC26-7514-04 snip While I do recognize the problems (who wouldn't?), I must express considerable sympathy for the writers and editors. Why? They cannot win. A comprehensive reorganization of the library could easily cause people who are experienced in a particular area of the system to stumble about for years while perhaps simplifying things for the less experienced in any given area. At the same time, leaving things as-is keeps people who know how to find what they need happier, perhaps at the expense of people who do not. However, the library's organization is not the only way to approach things. The search arguement z/os delete all members of a pds, which I happened to try first on Google, yielded this URL at the top of the results list (watch the wrap): http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/zos/v1r13/index.jsp?topic=%2Fcom.ibm.zos.r13.idak100%2Famspdse12.htm The topic it points to is Using the access method services DELETE command to delete all members of a PDS or PDSE. That same topic is the third hit with the second argument I tried, which was how do I delete all members of a pds? It rises back to the top with my third try, how do I delete all members of a pds on z/OS? This is not meant to excuse anything, but it seems an effective coping strategy that is reasonably independent of how we might choose to organize the information. YMMV, of course. -- John Eells z/OS Technical Marketing IBM Poughkeepsie ee...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
The series are more-or-less cumulative within a given release at the BCP level, so using the r13 is probably fine for the MVS shelf. LE probably has the COBOL (at a later level) PKIT Pubno: SK3T428918 Title : z/OS V1R13.0 Language Environment PDFs As for CICS/TS PKIT Pubno: SK3T696705 Title : CICS Transaction Server for z/OS V3.1 Online Library PKIT Pubno: SK3T696809 Title : CICS Transaction Server for z/OS V3.1 PDFs PKIT Pubno: SK3T697304 (sorry, but CICS is not regularly updating anything but their ICs.) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 15:07:29 -0600, Kevin Minerley wrote: The series are more-or-less cumulative within a given release at the BCP level, so using the r13 is probably fine for the MVS shelf. snip! Quick, quick! If you're at 1.12 (as we are), how do you find the HLASM Language Reference, which is titled and indexed as: Title: V1R6 Language Ref http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/ASMR1020/CCONTENTS They could have done better. In this case, a lot better. (Not contrived; I was actually looking for it an hour ago.) -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 07:04:32 -0800, Charles Mills wrote: Re reader comment form: Yeah, you're right. I see the problem as hopeless. IDCAMS = AMS -- no problem with that. My confusion was over finding documentation for deleting the members of a PDS under AMS for Catalogs. Somewhat analogous to finding documentation for BPXWDYN in Using REXX and z/OS UNIX System Services when BPXWDYN depends on neither Rexx nor USS (Although Ed J. might have some contrary opinions about the latter). I suspect there's some kind of corollary of Conway's Law involved here, but I can't precisely state it. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
The problem for me starts with the incredibly inconsistent titling, which causes the manual titles to sort in no meaningful sequence, making it doubly hard to find the relevant manual. Many of the IBM bookshelves have this problem, but DFSMS is IMHO the worst. Look at the list below and tell me quick, which one of these manuals will tell you how to use the IDCAMS utility to delete all members of a PDS(E)? z/OS DFSMS Software Support for IBM System Storage TS1130 and TS1120 Tape Drives (3592)SC26-7514-04 z/OS DFSMS Software Support for IBM TotalStorage Tape System Model E13HI10x/H13HI10xSC35-0484-00 z/OS V1R1.0 Distributed FileManager Guide and Reference SC26-7395-01 z/OS V1R1.10 DFSMShsm Managing Your Own DataSC35-0420-07 z/OS V1R10 DFSMS Installation Exits SC26-7396-10 z/OS V1R10 DFSMS OAM Planning, Installation, and Storage Administration Guide for Object SupportSC35-0426-06 z/OS V1R10 DFSMS Using Data SetsSC26-7410-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS AMS for Catalogs SC26-7394-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Implementing System-Managed Storage SC26-7407-05 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Introduction SC26-7397-03 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Macro Instructions for Data Sets SC26-7408-06 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Managing CatalogsSC26-7409-06 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS OAM Application Programmer's Reference SC35-0425-05 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS OAM Planning, Installation, and Storage Administration Guide for Tape Libraries SC35-0427-06 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Storage Administration Reference (for DFSMSdfp, DFSMSdss, DFSMShsm) SC26-7402-10 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Using ISMF SC26-7411-05 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Using the New Functions SC26-7473-05 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSdfp Advanced Services SC26-7400-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSdfp Diagnosis GY27-7618-09 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSdfp Utilities SC26-7414-05 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSdss Storage Administration Guide SC35-0423-10 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMShsm Diagnosis GC52-1083-04 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMShsm Implementation and Customization GuideSC35-0418-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMShsm Storage Administration Guide SC35-0421-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSrmm Application Programming Interface SC26-7403-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSrmm Diagnosis Guide GY27-7619-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSrmm Guide and Reference SC26-7404-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSrmm Implementation and Customization GuideSC26-7405-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSrmm Reporting SC26-7406-08 z/OS V1R3.0 DFSMS: Using Magnetic Tapes SC26-7412-01 z/OS V1R4.0 DFSMStvs Administration Guide GC26-7483-00 z/OS V1R4.0 DFSMStvs Planning and Operating Guide SC26-7348-00 z/OS V1R7.0 DFSMSdfp Checkpoint/Restart SC26-7401-02 z/OS V1R8.0 DFSMS: Using the Volume Mount Analyzer SC26-7413-02 z/OSV1R10 DFSMS Advanced Copy Services SC35-0428-14 Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 7:53 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?) On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 07:04:32 -0800, Charles Mills wrote: Re reader comment form: Yeah, you're right. I see the problem as hopeless. IDCAMS = AMS -- no problem with that. My confusion was over finding documentation for deleting the members of a PDS under AMS for Catalogs. Somewhat analogous to finding documentation for BPXWDYN in Using REXX and z/OS UNIX System Services when BPXWDYN depends on neither Rexx nor USS (Although Ed J. might have some contrary opinions about the latter). I suspect there's some kind of corollary of Conway's Law involved here, but I can't precisely state it. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
How would I make it better and not just be a critic? 1. Eliminate the version number from the title, or at least move it to the right-hand end of the title. z/OS is a pretty stable system. For 99 out of 100 queries, it really makes little difference whether it's a V1R10 or a V1R9 manual. At the very least, number versions consistently: either do or do not, either V1R10 or V1R10.0, not both. Ditto, use DFSMS or DFSMS: but not both. 2. Eliminate the word Using from titles. Sheesh, all of the manuals are about using something, aren't they? Why not Using Macro Instructions for Datasets? Using just mucks up the collation and makes it harder to find the manual on ISMF (it's under U, not I). 3. Be wary of weasel-words like Advanced. Advanced in what way? Why not come right out and say what that way is? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:54 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?) The problem for me starts with the incredibly inconsistent titling, which causes the manual titles to sort in no meaningful sequence, making it doubly hard to find the relevant manual. Many of the IBM bookshelves have this problem, but DFSMS is IMHO the worst. Look at the list below and tell me quick, which one of these manuals will tell you how to use the IDCAMS utility to delete all members of a PDS(E)? z/OS DFSMS Software Support for IBM System Storage TS1130 and TS1120 Tape Drives (3592)SC26-7514-04 z/OS DFSMS Software Support for IBM TotalStorage Tape System Model E13HI10x/H13HI10xSC35-0484-00 z/OS V1R1.0 Distributed FileManager Guide and Reference SC26-7395-01 z/OS V1R1.10 DFSMShsm Managing Your Own DataSC35-0420-07 z/OS V1R10 DFSMS Installation Exits SC26-7396-10 z/OS V1R10 DFSMS OAM Planning, Installation, and Storage Administration Guide for Object SupportSC35-0426-06 z/OS V1R10 DFSMS Using Data SetsSC26-7410-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS AMS for Catalogs SC26-7394-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Implementing System-Managed Storage SC26-7407-05 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Introduction SC26-7397-03 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Macro Instructions for Data Sets SC26-7408-06 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Managing CatalogsSC26-7409-06 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS OAM Application Programmer's Reference SC35-0425-05 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS OAM Planning, Installation, and Storage Administration Guide for Tape Libraries SC35-0427-06 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Storage Administration Reference (for DFSMSdfp, DFSMSdss, DFSMShsm) SC26-7402-10 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Using ISMF SC26-7411-05 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Using the New Functions SC26-7473-05 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSdfp Advanced Services SC26-7400-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSdfp Diagnosis GY27-7618-09 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSdfp Utilities SC26-7414-05 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSdss Storage Administration Guide SC35-0423-10 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMShsm Diagnosis GC52-1083-04 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMShsm Implementation and Customization GuideSC35-0418-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMShsm Storage Administration Guide SC35-0421-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSrmm Application Programming Interface SC26-7403-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSrmm Diagnosis Guide GY27-7619-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSrmm Guide and Reference SC26-7404-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSrmm Implementation and Customization GuideSC26-7405-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSrmm Reporting SC26-7406-08 z/OS V1R3.0 DFSMS: Using Magnetic Tapes SC26-7412-01 z/OS V1R4.0 DFSMStvs Administration Guide GC26-7483-00 z/OS V1R4.0 DFSMStvs Planning and Operating Guide SC26-7348-00 z/OS V1R7.0 DFSMSdfp Checkpoint/Restart SC26-7401-02 z/OS V1R8.0 DFSMS: Using the Volume Mount Analyzer SC26-7413-02 z/OSV1R10 DFSMS Advanced Copy Services SC35-0428-14 Charles -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
Isn't this just one aspect of how retrievability has changed since these titles were thought up? Without having specific proposals I think we (IBM and customers) should think it through. Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu, Date: 01/27/2013 06:28 PM Subject:Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu How would I make it better and not just be a critic? 1. Eliminate the version number from the title, or at least move it to the right-hand end of the title. z/OS is a pretty stable system. For 99 out of 100 queries, it really makes little difference whether it's a V1R10 or a V1R9 manual. At the very least, number versions consistently: either do or do not, either V1R10 or V1R10.0, not both. Ditto, use DFSMS or DFSMS: but not both. 2. Eliminate the word Using from titles. Sheesh, all of the manuals are about using something, aren't they? Why not Using Macro Instructions for Datasets? Using just mucks up the collation and makes it harder to find the manual on ISMF (it's under U, not I). 3. Be wary of weasel-words like Advanced. Advanced in what way? Why not come right out and say what that way is? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:54 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?) The problem for me starts with the incredibly inconsistent titling, which causes the manual titles to sort in no meaningful sequence, making it doubly hard to find the relevant manual. Many of the IBM bookshelves have this problem, but DFSMS is IMHO the worst. Look at the list below and tell me quick, which one of these manuals will tell you how to use the IDCAMS utility to delete all members of a PDS(E)? z/OS DFSMS Software Support for IBM System Storage TS1130 and TS1120 Tape Drives (3592)SC26-7514-04 z/OS DFSMS Software Support for IBM TotalStorage Tape System Model E13HI10x/H13HI10xSC35-0484-00 z/OS V1R1.0 Distributed FileManager Guide and Reference SC26-7395-01 z/OS V1R1.10 DFSMShsm Managing Your Own Data SC35-0420-07 z/OS V1R10 DFSMS Installation Exits SC26-7396-10 z/OS V1R10 DFSMS OAM Planning, Installation, and Storage Administration Guide for Object Support SC35-0426-06 z/OS V1R10 DFSMS Using Data Sets SC26-7410-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS AMS for Catalogs SC26-7394-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Implementing System-Managed Storage SC26-7407-05 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Introduction SC26-7397-03 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Macro Instructions for Data Sets SC26-7408-06 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Managing Catalogs SC26-7409-06 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS OAM Application Programmer's Reference SC35-0425-05 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS OAM Planning, Installation, and Storage Administration Guide for Tape Libraries SC35-0427-06 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Storage Administration Reference (for DFSMSdfp, DFSMSdss, DFSMShsm) SC26-7402-10 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Using ISMFSC26-7411-05 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMS Using the New Functions SC26-7473-05 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSdfp Advanced Services SC26-7400-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSdfp Diagnosis GY27-7618-09 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSdfp Utilities SC26-7414-05 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSdss Storage Administration Guide SC35-0423-10 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMShsm Diagnosis GC52-1083-04 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMShsm Implementation and Customization Guide SC35-0418-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMShsm Storage Administration Guide SC35-0421-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSrmm Application Programming Interface SC26-7403-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSrmm Diagnosis GuideGY27-7619-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSrmm Guide and ReferenceSC26-7404-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSrmm Implementation and Customization Guide SC26-7405-08 z/OS V1R10.0 DFSMSrmm Reporting SC26-7406-08 z/OS V1R3.0 DFSMS: Using Magnetic Tapes SC26-7412-01 z/OS V1R4.0 DFSMStvs Administration GuideGC26-7483-00 z/OS V1R4.0 DFSMStvs Planning and Operating Guide SC26-7348-00 z/OS V1R7.0 DFSMSdfp Checkpoint/Restart SC26-7401-02 z/OS V1R8.0 DFSMS: Using the Volume Mount Analyzer SC26-7413-02 z/OSV1R10 DFSMS Advanced Copy Services SC35-0428-14 Charles -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
Anciently, there was help in addressing the sort of problem Charles confronted. One consulted the relevant high-quality master index, which told one which publications treated a topic and provided the page numbers of these treatments. Master indices have not been eliminated definitively, but IBM does seem to have cut back very significantly on their production. The relevant one here: DFSMS/MVS Master Index, GC26-4904-00 has not been updated since September 24, 1999, the date of its original publication. Why, I wonder, has this happened? Are they judged too bookish in the age of the internet? John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
I have now read CM's 2nd post, that of 1:28 PM. I agree o that titles should me more meaningful, o that they should be standardized, and o that 'advanced' is not a helpful adjective. I am not, however, sure that stereotypy is always bad. Terms like User's Guide andf Language Reference are, or once were, useful because, with a little experience, one came to know which topics were likely to be treated where. (I should now prefer Usage Guide because apostrophes are, observably, highly problematic for the young. Why is anyone's guess.) John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
One consulted the relevant high-quality master index Or, lacking even enough of a clue to know what sub-product one needed to use, the KWIC (Key Word in Context) index to (believe it or not!) *all* IBM OS/360 publications. On a related topic, am I the only person who accesses the IBM manuals primarily through the Windows IBM Softcopy Reader? It has a very useful entire bookshelf search feature (which is in fact how I finally managed to track down the doc for IDCAMS DELETE). However, the search feature only works on BookManager type shelves, not Extended (which is what the rest of the world calls PDF) shelves. I understand that BookManager books are going away in favor of only PDFs -- is that right? (I notice I have only PDF documents for DB2 V10 although perhaps that is some oversight on my part.) Assuming I am not confused on BookManager shelves going away, how does one now do an all-bookshelf search? Only via the Web? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:37 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?) Anciently, there was help in addressing the sort of problem Charles confronted. One consulted the relevant high-quality master index, which told one which publications treated a topic and provided the page numbers of these treatments. Master indices have not been eliminated definitively, but IBM does seem to have cut back very significantly on their production. The relevant one here: DFSMS/MVS Master Index, GC26-4904-00 has not been updated since September 24, 1999, the date of its original publication. Why, I wonder, has this happened? Are they judged too bookish in the age of the internet? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
Yes, google search does somewhar well. Better than the IBM's site search. On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org wrote: deleted However, the search feature only works on BookManager type shelves, not Extended (which is what the rest of the world calls PDF) shelves. I understand that BookManager books are going away in favor of only PDFs -- is that right? (I notice I have only PDF documents for DB2 V10 although perhaps that is some oversight on my part.) Assuming I am not confused on BookManager shelves going away, how does one now do an all-bookshelf search? Only via the Web? Charles -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Mislocated doc (was: ... STOW Initialize?)
Mike, Yeah, I always heard there was a knack to reading IBM manuals. Scott ford www.identityforge.com Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand. - Chinese Proverb On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:30 PM, Mike Schwab mike.a.sch...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, google search does somewhar well. Better than the IBM's site search. On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org wrote: deleted However, the search feature only works on BookManager type shelves, not Extended (which is what the rest of the world calls PDF) shelves. I understand that BookManager books are going away in favor of only PDFs -- is that right? (I notice I have only PDF documents for DB2 V10 although perhaps that is some oversight on my part.) Assuming I am not confused on BookManager shelves going away, how does one now do an all-bookshelf search? Only via the Web? Charles -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
