Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
On 29/06/2013 6:39 PM, Martin Packer wrote: +1 for taking a look at the language - in case its party tricks are compelling. But I wonder how many packages are written in Lua - and that's my real beef. There are *lots* of packages. The official packaging tool is luarocks, which is similar to apt or ndm etc http://luarocks.org/repositories/rocks/. If your a fan of github there are over 2,000 lua related repositories https://github.com/search?l=Luaq=luaref=cmdformtype=Repositories. Everybody seems to be moving to github. All the code is under an MIT license so it's commercial friendly. Wikipedia uses Lua for it's template scripting https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/03/14/what-lua-scripting-means-wikimedia-open-source/. And just for fun, if like me you grew up in the 70s and 80s when 8-bit video games were all the rage you might enjoy hacking a pacman game in Lua https://github.com/tylerneylon/pacpac. Don't think that will run on z though! Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu, Date: 06/29/2013 03:32 AM Subject:Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu On 29/06/2013, at 10:00 AM, Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 07:19:12 +0800, David Crayford wrote: ...I've come to the conclusion that REXX is a dog. And seriously underpowered for modern use cases ... Poor old EXECIO has never looked more pathetic. And I thought Dave was quicker on the up-take than that ;-) But his recommendation(s) need serious consideration. Lua - yet another language to maybe have a look at. I seem to have about half a dozen already half-looked at. What you have to consider is what languages are available on z/OS. The cupboard is pretty bare other than JVM languages which don't run in the native environment. Most people consider mainframe modernisation to be replacing green screens with GUI front ends. That's all well and good but what I really yearn for are the tools that I'm used to on other platforms. I chose Lua because its easy to port and I was already using it to create cross platform mobile apps with the corona SDK. The z/OS ports of python and perl are stale. Ruby and JavaScript are difficult to port to EBCDIC. It's true that there are far too many languages to choose from. All of them have strengths and weaknesses. Although Lua is well known as a video game language and notorious for the flame/stuxnet viruses it runs brilliantly on z/OS. Its so fast my colleagues thought I was tricking them and running compiled code. Quite a popular language https://sites.google.com/site/marbux/home/where-lua-is-used Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
All, I find this article/thread interesting. Statistically , about 80 % of all Banking and Insurance is on z/OS. Why shouldn't we developers, of which i am one, have access to the tools we need to develop top notch software. LUA I know a little, Python some and it's very impressive as is Ruby. Java is good but I don't think is the total answer to all our programming and development needs. I agree with the gentleman about support for the z/os version of Python. Money and needs coupled usually unfortunately drive the development at times. Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Jun 29, 2013, at 11:47 PM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/06/2013 3:01 AM, zMan wrote: No Python on z/OS, not now, apparently not ever. Van Rossum doesn't believe in it: How important is z/OS? I'm very skeptical of the viability of any OS that uses an encoding that is not a superset of ASCII. You have to read the whole thread http://bugs.python.org/issue1298 to see it in context. He was objecting to committing an EBCDIC patch into pythons main source repository. I agree with him. The last thing they need is un-maintained EBCDIC code lingering around after the original author abandons the port! That is exactly what happened with perl. Much better to host a patch file as they suggested. You can download Python for z/OS here http://www.teaser.fr/~jymengant/mvspython/downloads.html. It's old and only executes in unix but it's quite usable. Finger firmly on the pulse of the industry there... On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Martin Packer martin_pac...@uk.ibm.comwrote: Yes, I know. And I'm always positive about new languages - scripting or otherwise - appearing on z/OS. For one, it makes it more fun. For two, it means useful packages can be ported. Would dearly love to see PHP, node.js, Python etc ported and supported on z/OS. If I didn't have a job I love making this so would be the one I'd want to do. :-) Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu, Date: 06/29/2013 01:22 PM Subject:Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu On 29/06/2013 6:39 PM, Martin Packer wrote: Would a Lua port use System XML? I suspect not - which is what it might take to make XML processing for the masses on z/O We're talking about scripting languages. Do you know of any REXX libraries on z/OS that can even parse XML? Do they use System XML. Is System XML any good anyway other than offloading to a zIIP? If I tried to use System XML in my product would it make my development times shorter? Put your positive hat on an try to accept that there may well be a solution that will work better then what we already have. Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu, Date: 06/29/2013 05:05 AM Subject:Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu On 29/06/2013 11:28 AM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: Oh noes, not another language! I think YASL is the term your looking for Wayne. Having said that, how many scripting languages do we have on z/OS? REXX, CLIST, perl or propriety vendor languages like NCL etc. How many of them can do mundane tasks like parsing XML? That's easy in Lua http://matthewwild.co.uk/projects/luaexpat/examples.html. How would you parse XML? Code a COBOL/PL/1 program. Use XML system services in assembler. Use C++ xereces. None of those solutions are simple. If you wanted to write a quick web app would you choose WebSphere Java, CICS? Yet again piece of cake in Lua http://www.keplerproject.org/ or the bleeding edge Luvit framework which is a node.js clone, already in production at rackspace http://luvit.io/. Very small language easy to learn http://tylerneylon.com/a/learn-lua/. http://hammerprinciple.com/therighttool/items/forth/lua Go Forth and multiply comes to mind. On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 12:02 PM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: On 29/06/2013, at 10:00 AM, Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 07:19:12 +0800, David Crayford wrote: ...I've come to the conclusion that REXX
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
On 6/30/2013 9:01 AM, Scott Ford wrote: All, I find this article/thread interesting. Statistically , about 80 % of all Banking and Insurance is on z/OS. Why shouldn't we developers, of which i am one, have access to the tools we need to develop top notch software. LUA I know a little, Python some and it's very impressive as is Ruby. Java is good but I don't think is the total answer to all our programming and development needs. I agree with the gentleman about support for the z/os version of Python. Money and needs coupled usually unfortunately drive the development at times. Why is that 'unfortunate'? I would call it practical. -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-355-2752 http://www.trainersfriend.com * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment! + Training your people is an excellent investment * Try our tool for calculating your Return On Investment for training dollars at http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Jun 29, 2013, at 11:47 PM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/06/2013 3:01 AM, zMan wrote: No Python on z/OS, not now, apparently not ever. Van Rossum doesn't believe in it: How important is z/OS? I'm very skeptical of the viability of any OS that uses an encoding that is not a superset of ASCII. You have to read the whole thread http://bugs.python.org/issue1298 to see it in context. He was objecting to committing an EBCDIC patch into pythons main source repository. I agree with him. The last thing they need is un-maintained EBCDIC code lingering around after the original author abandons the port! That is exactly what happened with perl. Much better to host a patch file as they suggested. You can download Python for z/OS here http://www.teaser.fr/~jymengant/mvspython/downloads.html. It's old and only executes in unix but it's quite usable. Finger firmly on the pulse of the industry there... On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Martin Packer martin_pac...@uk.ibm.comwrote: Yes, I know. And I'm always positive about new languages - scripting or otherwise - appearing on z/OS. For one, it makes it more fun. For two, it means useful packages can be ported. Would dearly love to see PHP, node.js, Python etc ported and supported on z/OS. If I didn't have a job I love making this so would be the one I'd want to do. :-) Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu, Date: 06/29/2013 01:22 PM Subject:Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu On 29/06/2013 6:39 PM, Martin Packer wrote: Would a Lua port use System XML? I suspect not - which is what it might take to make XML processing for the masses on z/O We're talking about scripting languages. Do you know of any REXX libraries on z/OS that can even parse XML? Do they use System XML. Is System XML any good anyway other than offloading to a zIIP? If I tried to use System XML in my product would it make my development times shorter? Put your positive hat on an try to accept that there may well be a solution that will work better then what we already have. Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu, Date: 06/29/2013 05:05 AM Subject:Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu On 29/06/2013 11:28 AM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: Oh noes, not another language! I think YASL is the term your looking for Wayne. Having said that, how many scripting languages do we have on z/OS? REXX, CLIST, perl or propriety vendor languages like NCL etc. How many of them can do mundane tasks like parsing XML? That's easy in Lua http://matthewwild.co.uk/projects/luaexpat/examples.html. How would you parse XML? Code a COBOL/PL/1 program. Use XML system services in assembler. Use C++ xereces. None of those solutions are simple. If you wanted to write a quick web app would you choose WebSphere Java, CICS? Yet again piece of cake in Lua http://www.keplerproject.org/ or the bleeding edge Luvit framework which is a node.js clone, already in production at rackspace http://luvit.io/. Very small language easy to learn http://tylerneylon.com/a/learn-lua
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
Steve, To me. This my personal opinion, I like the flexibility to be creative in different languages. I don't have a problem with practical, but sometimes it chokes creativity a tad Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Jun 30, 2013, at 11:18 AM, Steve Comstock st...@trainersfriend.com wrote: On 6/30/2013 9:01 AM, Scott Ford wrote: All, I find this article/thread interesting. Statistically , about 80 % of all Banking and Insurance is on z/OS. Why shouldn't we developers, of which i am one, have access to the tools we need to develop top notch software. LUA I know a little, Python some and it's very impressive as is Ruby. Java is good but I don't think is the total answer to all our programming and development needs. I agree with the gentleman about support for the z/os version of Python. Money and needs coupled usually unfortunately drive the development at times. Why is that 'unfortunate'? I would call it practical. -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-355-2752 http://www.trainersfriend.com * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment! + Training your people is an excellent investment * Try our tool for calculating your Return On Investment for training dollars at http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Jun 29, 2013, at 11:47 PM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/06/2013 3:01 AM, zMan wrote: No Python on z/OS, not now, apparently not ever. Van Rossum doesn't believe in it: How important is z/OS? I'm very skeptical of the viability of any OS that uses an encoding that is not a superset of ASCII. You have to read the whole thread http://bugs.python.org/issue1298 to see it in context. He was objecting to committing an EBCDIC patch into pythons main source repository. I agree with him. The last thing they need is un-maintained EBCDIC code lingering around after the original author abandons the port! That is exactly what happened with perl. Much better to host a patch file as they suggested. You can download Python for z/OS here http://www.teaser.fr/~jymengant/mvspython/downloads.html. It's old and only executes in unix but it's quite usable. Finger firmly on the pulse of the industry there... On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Martin Packer martin_pac...@uk.ibm.comwrote: Yes, I know. And I'm always positive about new languages - scripting or otherwise - appearing on z/OS. For one, it makes it more fun. For two, it means useful packages can be ported. Would dearly love to see PHP, node.js, Python etc ported and supported on z/OS. If I didn't have a job I love making this so would be the one I'd want to do. :-) Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu, Date: 06/29/2013 01:22 PM Subject:Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu On 29/06/2013 6:39 PM, Martin Packer wrote: Would a Lua port use System XML? I suspect not - which is what it might take to make XML processing for the masses on z/O We're talking about scripting languages. Do you know of any REXX libraries on z/OS that can even parse XML? Do they use System XML. Is System XML any good anyway other than offloading to a zIIP? If I tried to use System XML in my product would it make my development times shorter? Put your positive hat on an try to accept that there may well be a solution that will work better then what we already have. Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu, Date: 06/29/2013 05:05 AM Subject:Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu On 29/06/2013 11:28 AM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: Oh noes, not another language! I think YASL is the term your looking for Wayne. Having said that, how many scripting languages do we have on z/OS? REXX, CLIST, perl or propriety vendor languages like NCL etc. How many of them can do mundane tasks like parsing XML? That's easy in Lua http://matthewwild.co.uk/projects/luaexpat
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
In ofe878f739.f906bf47-on80257b99.004c84e9-80257b99.004e8...@uk.ibm.com, on 06/29/2013 at 03:17 PM, Martin Packer martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com said: Would dearly love to see PHP, Be careful what you ask for - you might get it. There are cleaner languages. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
In 1427790225797888.wa.ibmmaintpg.com...@listserv.ua.edu, on 06/28/2013 at 09:00 PM, Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au said: Lua - yet another language to maybe have a look at. All I know about it is that wiki is using it. Anybody have a link? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
+1 for taking a look at the language - in case its party tricks are compelling. But I wonder how many packages are written in Lua - and that's my real beef. Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu, Date: 06/29/2013 03:32 AM Subject:Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu On 29/06/2013, at 10:00 AM, Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 07:19:12 +0800, David Crayford wrote: ...I've come to the conclusion that REXX is a dog. And seriously underpowered for modern use cases ... Poor old EXECIO has never looked more pathetic. And I thought Dave was quicker on the up-take than that ;-) But his recommendation(s) need serious consideration. Lua - yet another language to maybe have a look at. I seem to have about half a dozen already half-looked at. What you have to consider is what languages are available on z/OS. The cupboard is pretty bare other than JVM languages which don't run in the native environment. Most people consider mainframe modernisation to be replacing green screens with GUI front ends. That's all well and good but what I really yearn for are the tools that I'm used to on other platforms. I chose Lua because its easy to port and I was already using it to create cross platform mobile apps with the corona SDK. The z/OS ports of python and perl are stale. Ruby and JavaScript are difficult to port to EBCDIC. It's true that there are far too many languages to choose from. All of them have strengths and weaknesses. Although Lua is well known as a video game language and notorious for the flame/stuxnet viruses it runs brilliantly on z/OS. Its so fast my colleagues thought I was tricking them and running compiled code. Quite a popular language https://sites.google.com/site/marbux/home/where-lua-is-used Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
On 29/06/2013 6:39 PM, Martin Packer wrote: Would a Lua port use System XML? I suspect not - which is what it might take to make XML processing for the masses on z/O We're talking about scripting languages. Do you know of any REXX libraries on z/OS that can even parse XML? Do they use System XML. Is System XML any good anyway other than offloading to a zIIP? If I tried to use System XML in my product would it make my development times shorter? Put your positive hat on an try to accept that there may well be a solution that will work better then what we already have. Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu, Date: 06/29/2013 05:05 AM Subject:Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu On 29/06/2013 11:28 AM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: Oh noes, not another language! I think YASL is the term your looking for Wayne. Having said that, how many scripting languages do we have on z/OS? REXX, CLIST, perl or propriety vendor languages like NCL etc. How many of them can do mundane tasks like parsing XML? That's easy in Lua http://matthewwild.co.uk/projects/luaexpat/examples.html. How would you parse XML? Code a COBOL/PL/1 program. Use XML system services in assembler. Use C++ xereces. None of those solutions are simple. If you wanted to write a quick web app would you choose WebSphere Java, CICS? Yet again piece of cake in Lua http://www.keplerproject.org/ or the bleeding edge Luvit framework which is a node.js clone, already in production at rackspace http://luvit.io/. Very small language easy to learn http://tylerneylon.com/a/learn-lua/. http://hammerprinciple.com/therighttool/items/forth/lua Go Forth and multiply comes to mind. On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 12:02 PM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: On 29/06/2013, at 10:00 AM, Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 07:19:12 +0800, David Crayford wrote: ...I've come to the conclusion that REXX is a dog. And seriously underpowered for modern use cases ... Poor old EXECIO has never looked more pathetic. And I thought Dave was quicker on the up-take than that ;-) But his recommendation(s) need serious consideration. Lua - yet another language to maybe have a look at. I seem to have about half a dozen already half-looked at. What you have to consider is what languages are available on z/OS. The cupboard is pretty bare other than JVM languages which don't run in the native environment. Most people consider mainframe modernisation to be replacing green screens with GUI front ends. That's all well and good but what I really yearn for are the tools that I'm used to on other platforms. I chose Lua because its easy to port and I was already using it to create cross platform mobile apps with the corona SDK. The z/OS ports of python and perl are stale. Ruby and JavaScript are difficult to port to EBCDIC. It's true that there are far too many languages to choose from. All of them have strengths and weaknesses. Although Lua is well known as a video game language and notorious for the flame/stuxnet viruses it runs brilliantly on z/OS. Its so fast my colleagues thought I was tricking them and running compiled code. Quite a popular language https://sites.google.com/site/marbux/home/where-lua-is-used Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
Indeed. I basically gave up on REXX, particularly for text processing, ages ago. Even for my RMF reports it's easier to ftp (via hipersockets) down to zLinux and use awk or perl to reformat them as I want, then ftp them back. Cheap MIPS/MSUs too. Must admit I do little scripting in z/OS these days. Is there a public port of Lua available Dave ?. Shane ... On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 20:22:39 +0800, David Crayford wrote: We're talking about scripting languages. Do you know of any REXX libraries on z/OS that can even parse XML? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
No Python on z/OS, not now, apparently not ever. Van Rossum doesn't believe in it: How important is z/OS? I'm very skeptical of the viability of any OS that uses an encoding that is not a superset of ASCII. Finger firmly on the pulse of the industry there... On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Martin Packer martin_pac...@uk.ibm.comwrote: Yes, I know. And I'm always positive about new languages - scripting or otherwise - appearing on z/OS. For one, it makes it more fun. For two, it means useful packages can be ported. Would dearly love to see PHP, node.js, Python etc ported and supported on z/OS. If I didn't have a job I love making this so would be the one I'd want to do. :-) Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu, Date: 06/29/2013 01:22 PM Subject:Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu On 29/06/2013 6:39 PM, Martin Packer wrote: Would a Lua port use System XML? I suspect not - which is what it might take to make XML processing for the masses on z/O We're talking about scripting languages. Do you know of any REXX libraries on z/OS that can even parse XML? Do they use System XML. Is System XML any good anyway other than offloading to a zIIP? If I tried to use System XML in my product would it make my development times shorter? Put your positive hat on an try to accept that there may well be a solution that will work better then what we already have. Cheers, Martin Martin Packer, zChampion, Principal Systems Investigator, Worldwide Banking Center of Excellence, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/MartinPacker From: David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu, Date: 06/29/2013 05:05 AM Subject:Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently) Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu On 29/06/2013 11:28 AM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: Oh noes, not another language! I think YASL is the term your looking for Wayne. Having said that, how many scripting languages do we have on z/OS? REXX, CLIST, perl or propriety vendor languages like NCL etc. How many of them can do mundane tasks like parsing XML? That's easy in Lua http://matthewwild.co.uk/projects/luaexpat/examples.html. How would you parse XML? Code a COBOL/PL/1 program. Use XML system services in assembler. Use C++ xereces. None of those solutions are simple. If you wanted to write a quick web app would you choose WebSphere Java, CICS? Yet again piece of cake in Lua http://www.keplerproject.org/ or the bleeding edge Luvit framework which is a node.js clone, already in production at rackspace http://luvit.io/. Very small language easy to learn http://tylerneylon.com/a/learn-lua/. http://hammerprinciple.com/therighttool/items/forth/lua Go Forth and multiply comes to mind. On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 12:02 PM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: On 29/06/2013, at 10:00 AM, Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 07:19:12 +0800, David Crayford wrote: ...I've come to the conclusion that REXX is a dog. And seriously underpowered for modern use cases ... Poor old EXECIO has never looked more pathetic. And I thought Dave was quicker on the up-take than that ;-) But his recommendation(s) need serious consideration. Lua - yet another language to maybe have a look at. I seem to have about half a dozen already half-looked at. What you have to consider is what languages are available on z/OS. The cupboard is pretty bare other than JVM languages which don't run in the native environment. Most people consider mainframe modernisation to be replacing green screens with GUI front ends. That's all well and good but what I really yearn for are the tools that I'm used to on other platforms. I chose Lua because its easy to port and I was already using it to create cross platform mobile apps with the corona SDK. The z/OS ports of python and perl are stale. Ruby and JavaScript are difficult to port to EBCDIC. It's true that there are far too many languages to choose from. All of them have strengths and weaknesses. Although Lua is well known as a video game language and notorious for the flame/stuxnet viruses it runs brilliantly on z/OS. Its so fast my colleagues thought I was tricking them and running compiled code. Quite a popular language
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
On 28/06/2013 9:52 PM, John McKown wrote: Never put off till run-time what you can do at compile-time. -- D. Gries Careful! There are quite a few assembler programmers frequent this list! However, it does seem that the hipsters are writing code in dynamically typed languages these days. Maybe speed of development is more important than static typing to the unwashed masses. I'm a big fan of duck typing. Very powerful concept that the value carries the type and not the variable. I love programming in modern scripting languages. Not only are they fast (I've got lua zlib script that can compress a data set faster and with better compression ratios than TRSMAIN) they are also easy to learn and have wonderful expression. Closures, functional programming, loads of useful libraries and huge communities that contribute great code. Just browse github - a treasure trove of delights. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
I'm becoming quite conversant with JavaScript in Firefox, Chrome, and I.E. . Especially to implement some AJAX scripts which do reports on events reported via the z/OS HTTP server into z/OS UNIX syslogd log files. I've written a web based RACF User Administration system using AJAX for the security admins (us and Production Control. We're too small for a separate set of z/OS RACF admins). I also use AJAX in my Mainframe Password Reset Self Service web page as well. I don't remember who, but one kind soul sent me a z/OS implementation of lua. I've installed it, but have not learned lua yet. On Linux, I tend to use either simple BASH or Perl scripts. I've got a book on Node.JS to run JavaScript scripts, but haven't had time to read it. On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 9:15 AM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: On 28/06/2013 9:52 PM, John McKown wrote: Never put off till run-time what you can do at compile-time. -- D. Gries Careful! There are quite a few assembler programmers frequent this list! However, it does seem that the hipsters are writing code in dynamically typed languages these days. Maybe speed of development is more important than static typing to the unwashed masses. I'm a big fan of duck typing. Very powerful concept that the value carries the type and not the variable. I love programming in modern scripting languages. Not only are they fast (I've got lua zlib script that can compress a data set faster and with better compression ratios than TRSMAIN) they are also easy to learn and have wonderful expression. Closures, functional programming, loads of useful libraries and huge communities that contribute great code. Just browse github - a treasure trove of delights. --**--**-- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System. If this had been an actual emergency, do you really think we'd stick around to tell you? Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
In 51cd9a6b.7030...@gmail.com, on 06/28/2013 at 10:15 PM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com said: On 28/06/2013 9:52 PM, John McKown wrote: Never put off till run-time what you can do at compile-time. -- D. Gries Never bind prematurely -- S. Metz Careful! There are quite a few assembler programmers frequent this list! Assembly is a special case of compilation. I'm a big fan of duck typing. Very powerful concept that the value carries the type and not the variable. That's a good servant but a poor master. I want a language with both strong dynamic typing and strong static typing, with the static type taking precedence; that is, you can store anything into a variable declared DYNAMIC, but only matching values for anything with a static type. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
I've been using node.js for a while now and seriously love it. Writing web apps has never been easier. Web sockets are cool and a snack with socket.io and express. I looked at porting V8 to z/OS but its a lot of work. Lua has an almost identical feature set to JavaScript and was dirt easy to port. It's so fast that at first I thought something must be wrong. A REXX script that took 11 secs would run in 0.03 secs in Lua. I've come to the conclusion that REXX is a dog. And seriously underpowered for modern use cases. I've built a comprehensive set of runtime packages so far - JSON, XML, sockets HTTP, SMTP, a web server framework, SQL etc. It runs outside of unix unlike perl. I changed to loader to search DD LUAEXEC. Due to its embedded nature it should be able to run anywhere. CICS, DB2 stored procedures etc. The IO package is just a thin layer on top of C stdio so it handles all the file systems including VSAM. Poor old EXECIO has never looked more pathetic. Hopefully my employers will let me release the port. I'm sure a lot of people would find it very useful. Especially those who are CPU constrained. On 28/06/2013, at 11:05 PM, John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com wrote: I'm becoming quite conversant with JavaScript in Firefox, Chrome, and I.E. . Especially to implement some AJAX scripts which do reports on events reported via the z/OS HTTP server into z/OS UNIX syslogd log files. I've written a web based RACF User Administration system using AJAX for the security admins (us and Production Control. We're too small for a separate set of z/OS RACF admins). I also use AJAX in my Mainframe Password Reset Self Service web page as well. I don't remember who, but one kind soul sent me a z/OS implementation of lua. I've installed it, but have not learned lua yet. On Linux, I tend to use either simple BASH or Perl scripts. I've got a book on Node.JS to run JavaScript scripts, but haven't had time to read it. On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 9:15 AM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: On 28/06/2013 9:52 PM, John McKown wrote: Never put off till run-time what you can do at compile-time. -- D. Gries Careful! There are quite a few assembler programmers frequent this list! However, it does seem that the hipsters are writing code in dynamically typed languages these days. Maybe speed of development is more important than static typing to the unwashed masses. I'm a big fan of duck typing. Very powerful concept that the value carries the type and not the variable. I love programming in modern scripting languages. Not only are they fast (I've got lua zlib script that can compress a data set faster and with better compression ratios than TRSMAIN) they are also easy to learn and have wonderful expression. Closures, functional programming, loads of useful libraries and huge communities that contribute great code. Just browse github - a treasure trove of delights. --**--**-- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System. If this had been an actual emergency, do you really think we'd stick around to tell you? Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
I am drooling over the thought you might be able to share that lua stuff. Learning it has now gone to the top of the list. On Jun 28, 2013 6:19 PM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: I've been using node.js for a while now and seriously love it. Writing web apps has never been easier. Web sockets are cool and a snack with socket.io and express. I looked at porting V8 to z/OS but its a lot of work. Lua has an almost identical feature set to JavaScript and was dirt easy to port. It's so fast that at first I thought something must be wrong. A REXX script that took 11 secs would run in 0.03 secs in Lua. I've come to the conclusion that REXX is a dog. And seriously underpowered for modern use cases. I've built a comprehensive set of runtime packages so far - JSON, XML, sockets HTTP, SMTP, a web server framework, SQL etc. It runs outside of unix unlike perl. I changed to loader to search DD LUAEXEC. Due to its embedded nature it should be able to run anywhere. CICS, DB2 stored procedures etc. The IO package is just a thin layer on top of C stdio so it handles all the file systems including VSAM. Poor old EXECIO has never looked more pathetic. Hopefully my employers will let me release the port. I'm sure a lot of people would find it very useful. Especially those who are CPU constrained. On 28/06/2013, at 11:05 PM, John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com wrote: I'm becoming quite conversant with JavaScript in Firefox, Chrome, and I.E. . Especially to implement some AJAX scripts which do reports on events reported via the z/OS HTTP server into z/OS UNIX syslogd log files. I've written a web based RACF User Administration system using AJAX for the security admins (us and Production Control. We're too small for a separate set of z/OS RACF admins). I also use AJAX in my Mainframe Password Reset Self Service web page as well. I don't remember who, but one kind soul sent me a z/OS implementation of lua. I've installed it, but have not learned lua yet. On Linux, I tend to use either simple BASH or Perl scripts. I've got a book on Node.JS to run JavaScript scripts, but haven't had time to read it. On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 9:15 AM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: On 28/06/2013 9:52 PM, John McKown wrote: Never put off till run-time what you can do at compile-time. -- D. Gries Careful! There are quite a few assembler programmers frequent this list! However, it does seem that the hipsters are writing code in dynamically typed languages these days. Maybe speed of development is more important than static typing to the unwashed masses. I'm a big fan of duck typing. Very powerful concept that the value carries the type and not the variable. I love programming in modern scripting languages. Not only are they fast (I've got lua zlib script that can compress a data set faster and with better compression ratios than TRSMAIN) they are also easy to learn and have wonderful expression. Closures, functional programming, loads of useful libraries and huge communities that contribute great code. Just browse github - a treasure trove of delights. --**--**-- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System. If this had been an actual emergency, do you really think we'd stick around to tell you? Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 07:19:12 +0800, David Crayford wrote: ...I've come to the conclusion that REXX is a dog. And seriously underpowered for modern use cases ... Poor old EXECIO has never looked more pathetic. And I thought Dave was quicker on the up-take than that ;-) But his recommendation(s) need serious consideration. Lua - yet another language to maybe have a look at. I seem to have about half a dozen already half-looked at. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
On 29/06/2013, at 10:00 AM, Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 07:19:12 +0800, David Crayford wrote: ...I've come to the conclusion that REXX is a dog. And seriously underpowered for modern use cases ... Poor old EXECIO has never looked more pathetic. And I thought Dave was quicker on the up-take than that ;-) But his recommendation(s) need serious consideration. Lua - yet another language to maybe have a look at. I seem to have about half a dozen already half-looked at. What you have to consider is what languages are available on z/OS. The cupboard is pretty bare other than JVM languages which don't run in the native environment. Most people consider mainframe modernisation to be replacing green screens with GUI front ends. That's all well and good but what I really yearn for are the tools that I'm used to on other platforms. I chose Lua because its easy to port and I was already using it to create cross platform mobile apps with the corona SDK. The z/OS ports of python and perl are stale. Ruby and JavaScript are difficult to port to EBCDIC. It's true that there are far too many languages to choose from. All of them have strengths and weaknesses. Although Lua is well known as a video game language and notorious for the flame/stuxnet viruses it runs brilliantly on z/OS. Its so fast my colleagues thought I was tricking them and running compiled code. Quite a popular language https://sites.google.com/site/marbux/home/where-lua-is-used Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Great quote on http://slashdot.org (changes frequently)
Oh noes, not another language! http://hammerprinciple.com/therighttool/items/forth/lua Go Forth and multiply comes to mind. On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 12:02 PM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: On 29/06/2013, at 10:00 AM, Shane Ginnane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au wrote: On Sat, 29 Jun 2013 07:19:12 +0800, David Crayford wrote: ...I've come to the conclusion that REXX is a dog. And seriously underpowered for modern use cases ... Poor old EXECIO has never looked more pathetic. And I thought Dave was quicker on the up-take than that ;-) But his recommendation(s) need serious consideration. Lua - yet another language to maybe have a look at. I seem to have about half a dozen already half-looked at. What you have to consider is what languages are available on z/OS. The cupboard is pretty bare other than JVM languages which don't run in the native environment. Most people consider mainframe modernisation to be replacing green screens with GUI front ends. That's all well and good but what I really yearn for are the tools that I'm used to on other platforms. I chose Lua because its easy to port and I was already using it to create cross platform mobile apps with the corona SDK. The z/OS ports of python and perl are stale. Ruby and JavaScript are difficult to port to EBCDIC. It's true that there are far too many languages to choose from. All of them have strengths and weaknesses. Although Lua is well known as a video game language and notorious for the flame/stuxnet viruses it runs brilliantly on z/OS. Its so fast my colleagues thought I was tricking them and running compiled code. Quite a popular language https://sites.google.com/site/marbux/home/where-lua-is-used Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Wayne V. Bickerdike -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
