Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines
I wasn't proposing a change in the defaults; I was proposing a new SET option, e.g., SET NOEDIT, to change the TRUNC behavior. And, yes, I know that a macro can play with the setting: BTDT,GTTS (no scars, just the tee shirt.) But it's SET PENDING that makes XEDIT a joy to edit under. What I want is for me to be able to type into column 72 but for, E.G., CHANGE, CINSERT, to not shift anything into it. My only real concern for defaults is when I have to support other users; whatever defaults confuses them lest is best, and won't affect my edit sessions because I tweak my profiles. And, no, I've never been able to convince them to RTFM :-( -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Alan Altmark [alan_altm...@us.ibm.com] Sent: Friday, March 4, 2022 11:31 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 14:35:41 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >That is not a workaround for the problem that I'm addressing. Consider the >command > > CHANGE /FOO/FOOBARBAZ/ > >on a line with few spaces. With TRUNC 72, text can spill over into the >continuation column. The change I'm suggesting is that there be a new mode in >which > > 1. Any type of insert or string replacement has no effect beyond the > truncation column > 2. Data keyed in beyond the replacement column are retained And I would counter-propose that you create a CHANGE XEDIT macro that does what you want (I was trying to illustrate that a macro can play with the settings). It's not that I'm averse to the idea of a change in XEDIT. In fact, I like "smart" behavior. But it turns out that mucking with defaults has its risks. VM Development was burned by that a couple of years ago when they changed one of the other default behaviors in XEDIT to make life easier. Alan Altmark IBM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines
On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 14:35:41 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >That is not a workaround for the problem that I'm addressing. Consider the >command > > CHANGE /FOO/FOOBARBAZ/ > >on a line with few spaces. With TRUNC 72, text can spill over into the >continuation column. The change I'm suggesting is that there be a new mode in >which > > 1. Any type of insert or string replacement has no effect beyond the > truncation column > 2. Data keyed in beyond the replacement column are retained And I would counter-propose that you create a CHANGE XEDIT macro that does what you want (I was trying to illustrate that a macro can play with the settings). It's not that I'm averse to the idea of a change in XEDIT. In fact, I like "smart" behavior. But it turns out that mucking with defaults has its risks. VM Development was burned by that a couple of years ago when they changed one of the other default behaviors in XEDIT to make life easier. Alan Altmark IBM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines
That is not a workaround for the problem that I'm addressing. Consider the command CHANGE /FOO/FOOBARBAZ/ on a line with few spaces. With TRUNC 72, text can spill over into the continuation column. The change I'm suggesting is that there be a new mode in which 1. Any type of insert or string replacement has no effect beyond the truncation column 2. Data keyed in beyond the replacement column are retained -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Alan Altmark [alan_altm...@us.ibm.com] Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 8:09 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 18:37:24 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >Maybe compatibility with EDIT. XEDIT came out with VM/SP R2, and by then 3270s >were ubiquitous. > >Maybe an RFE is in order for a mode in which the TRUNC column applies to >editing commands bu not to input from the keyboard. I really don't see that getting any traction since the workaround is to "EXTRACT /BASETYPE" if wordpos(basetype.1, "ASSEMBLE COPY MACRO") > 1 then do "SET TRUNC 72" "SET ZONE 1 72" end in your PROFILE XEDIT. For a more sophisticated version of that, have a look at the label SetView: in https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vm.ibm.com%2Fdevpages%2Faltmarka%2Fprofile.xeditdata=04%7C01%7Csmetz3%40gmu.edu%7C2cc41f3fd5ca4ee04f5f08d9fd1719a8%7C9e857255df574c47a0c00546460380cb%7C0%7C0%7C637819097934465728%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=D4rP0s2JpyYIw2QH%2BrwyBZWSIlsEa%2FHSg2O7pCfps2M%3Dreserved=0 Alan Altmark IBM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines
On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 18:37:24 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >Maybe compatibility with EDIT. XEDIT came out with VM/SP R2, and by then 3270s >were ubiquitous. > >Maybe an RFE is in order for a mode in which the TRUNC column applies to >editing commands bu not to input from the keyboard. I really don't see that getting any traction since the workaround is to "EXTRACT /BASETYPE" if wordpos(basetype.1, "ASSEMBLE COPY MACRO") > 1 then do "SET TRUNC 72" "SET ZONE 1 72" end in your PROFILE XEDIT. For a more sophisticated version of that, have a look at the label SetView: in https://www.vm.ibm.com/devpages/altmarka/profile.xedit Alan Altmark IBM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines
Maybe compatibility with EDIT. XEDIT came out with VM/SP R2, and by then 3270s were ubiquitous. Maybe an RFE is in order for a mode in which the TRUNC column applies to editing commands bu not to input from the keyboard. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Alan Altmark [alan_altm...@us.ibm.com] Sent: Monday, February 28, 2022 12:27 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:47:31 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >Bummer. Maybe someone from IBM can shed light on the issue. I speculate that this was to prevent INSERT and CHANGE from overlaying column 72 by accident when editing in line mode. When you're ready to put in continuation characters, do TRUNC 72 # CL :72 # COVERLAY X # REPEAT n # TRUNC 71. Naturally we all updated our profiles once 3270s showed up, so it turned into a non-issue. Alan Altmark IBM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines
FYI, Prior to converting from a System-3 to a 4331 running DOS/VS, IBM dropped a line-mode remote terminal into our shop. This would be about 1981. We edited programs and JCL using it for about 4 months before we finally got our 4331. Until this discussion, I had kinda forgotten this experience. Alan's comments paged those memories back into main storage. Having used a remote line-mode terminal, I now understand the history of TRUNC 71. Tony Thigpen Paul Gilmartin wrote on 2/28/22 10:04: On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 23:27:51 -0600, Alan Altmark wrote: On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:47:31 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: Bummer. Maybe someone from IBM can shed light on the issue. I speculate that this was to prevent INSERT and CHANGE from overlaying column 72 by accident when editing in line mode. When you're ready to put in continuation characters, do TRUNC 72 # CL :72 # COVERLAY X # REPEAT n # TRUNC 71. AYFK‽ I'll assume that was a macro, perhaps a PF key. Wouldn't it be useful if after marking the continuation it inserted a following blank line to contain the rest of the statement? Naturally we all updated our profiles once 3270s showed up, so it turned into a non-issue. What had you used previously? A command line editor? Will the tyranny of the 026 and 701 ever be overthrown? Has anyone submitted an RFE to incorporate FLOWASM into HLASM; even make it the default? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 23:27:51 -0600, Alan Altmark wrote: >On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:47:31 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >>Bummer. Maybe someone from IBM can shed light on the issue. > >I speculate that this was to prevent INSERT and CHANGE from overlaying column >72 by accident when editing in line mode. When you're ready to put in >continuation characters, do TRUNC 72 # CL :72 # COVERLAY X # REPEAT n # TRUNC >71. > AYFK‽ I'll assume that was a macro, perhaps a PF key. Wouldn't it be useful if after marking the continuation it inserted a following blank line to contain the rest of the statement? >Naturally we all updated our profiles once 3270s showed up, so it turned into >a non-issue. > What had you used previously? A command line editor? Will the tyranny of the 026 and 701 ever be overthrown? Has anyone submitted an RFE to incorporate FLOWASM into HLASM; even make it the default? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 17:47:31 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >Bummer. Maybe someone from IBM can shed light on the issue. I speculate that this was to prevent INSERT and CHANGE from overlaying column 72 by accident when editing in line mode. When you're ready to put in continuation characters, do TRUNC 72 # CL :72 # COVERLAY X # REPEAT n # TRUNC 71. Naturally we all updated our profiles once 3270s showed up, so it turned into a non-issue. Alan Altmark IBM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 16:21:46 -0500, Phil Smith III wrote: >Seymour J Metz wrote: > >>With Trunc 71 and Verify 1-72, text won't inadvertently spill over from >comments into the continuation column. You can still key a character into >column 72. > >Nope. Well, you can key it, but it won't "take". That's part of the >definition of TRUNC. > Bad definition. XEDIT shouldn't entice users to enter data that t won't "take". The field should have the read-only attribute. Is there any rationale for making it writable? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines
Seymour J Metz wrote: >With Trunc 71 and Verify 1-72, text won't inadvertently spill over from comments into the continuation column. You can still key a character into column 72. Nope. Well, you can key it, but it won't "take". That's part of the definition of TRUNC. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines
Bummer. Maybe someone from IBM can shed light on the issue. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Binyamin Dissen [bdis...@dissensoftware.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 12:25 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 15:22:40 + Seymour J Metz wrote: :>I believe that XEDIT and UPDATE are substantially as they were in VM/SP R2, except that starting with R3 you could write your macros in REXX. :>With Trunc 71 and Verify 1-72, text won't inadvertently spill over from comments into the continuation column. You can still key a character into column 72. Not when I try. It gets erased after pressing enter. :> :>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Binyamin Dissen [bdis...@dissensoftware.com] :>Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 7:23 AM :>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU :>Subject: XEDIT assembler continuation lines :> :>Hope that I am not doing too many newbie questions. I did a lot of VM in the :>80s, including mods to CP and CMS, but either my memory isn't good or things :>changed quite a bit. :> :>Why is TRUNC set, by default, at 71 for ASSEMBLE files? Is there some tricky :>was to put in a continuation character or must I reset TRUNC? -- Binyamin Dissen http://secure-web.cisco.com/1QHvAZrrxnC7DhtMws73Hc5CzdHrtxKXc80lLuvmrgTv9HQaTKKzhecjqfltyZwHVsJqul0PFjLkhv2_IiXBuSlBgsQxAmeAO-p4ahS52HxPo5xk9b3mVJzzpZNbq_BDb95PDyDVeE2K4kSt1ZDBaEU2SwAIBDJgBhdbz3Qlfgb3Tmw2rCARvVFj-gx1WhlJ6Qb9K7iCZnT8JHayNrabHq5N8AuL7A681F3JYM2CeGSN3KFUWPv-S2KwMspEj3e_Im3Smmd4gTmhEn3VvqSY8YZ7TK3iuUXwC0UppVVtpuWBbPs7UB4Opu8jrUR7zeBVnmnsZKvaPj3a09ChvSgusvvijRCqRhOxs9etW8aaqEnjMxSxz6Q5oCuf551UX08chbHgeDMpi9nZ8k2ZI4PeP-trYsj4KGu7Sh9WemSin8kdLkyZjQ_OryYL0yJorWBoe/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines
On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 15:22:40 + Seymour J Metz wrote: :>I believe that XEDIT and UPDATE are substantially as they were in VM/SP R2, except that starting with R3 you could write your macros in REXX. :>With Trunc 71 and Verify 1-72, text won't inadvertently spill over from comments into the continuation column. You can still key a character into column 72. Not when I try. It gets erased after pressing enter. :> :>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Binyamin Dissen [bdis...@dissensoftware.com] :>Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 7:23 AM :>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU :>Subject: XEDIT assembler continuation lines :> :>Hope that I am not doing too many newbie questions. I did a lot of VM in the :>80s, including mods to CP and CMS, but either my memory isn't good or things :>changed quite a bit. :> :>Why is TRUNC set, by default, at 71 for ASSEMBLE files? Is there some tricky :>was to put in a continuation character or must I reset TRUNC? -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines
I believe that XEDIT and UPDATE are substantially as they were in VM/SP R2, except that starting with R3 you could write your macros in REXX. With Trunc 71 and Verify 1-72, text won't inadvertently spill over from comments into the continuation column. You can still key a character into column 72. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Binyamin Dissen [bdis...@dissensoftware.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 7:23 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: XEDIT assembler continuation lines Hope that I am not doing too many newbie questions. I did a lot of VM in the 80s, including mods to CP and CMS, but either my memory isn't good or things changed quite a bit. Why is TRUNC set, by default, at 71 for ASSEMBLE files? Is there some tricky was to put in a continuation character or must I reset TRUNC? -- Binyamin Dissen http://secure-web.cisco.com/1wKBsCYCCG7S5XX1nePfKRiOgdCmhMBX2MrO5dumZv3Q-kRSlwqVCx9eZFF-OGZDnBMSLeW5JHo2s0MPcBR0-AFsuP2ptOJQgwh9xnpTLkw9YwUV-u3ZmFSYRhrvOpse2LS8-r_zaaZGN01fRxH057yOcUzid0RAXh6qQoqXI4Vm08v3jQD00H23cGlsElDm9jWyq_9pbgnlqJt0kIq1Rfr288bDo30G1sxhHcXwET4lJNueOGIhPNenSPDKy3bIfqaIowvGBe9beWGlkGKdZLP6Ax7fBh3DTw1w_fzoSD_NUp-_4XRixt9gXyKJFa2LQQ9ccCcCmEMDzWnbW7KpSnapmEFw7_-eJtwlQ-9Ug7Bwlt3Yw5yhdofLveCHlRQs_Q09U_A2wRiSkTmNR8Ylsxs5a_lsQqelFdyVcUewhCYDQmjIFTv6ZCyKLuQKjGWPC/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: XEDIT assembler continuation lines
Binyamin Dissen wrote: >Hope that I am not doing too many newbie questions. I did a lot of VM in the >80s, including mods to CP and CMS, but either my memory isn't good or things >changed quite a bit. No such thing as "too many" REAL questions (not "Do my homework for me"!) >Why is TRUNC set, by default, at 71 for ASSEMBLE files? Is there some tricky >was to put in a continuation character or must I reset TRUNC? I'm not sure I can make a convincing argument as to WHY it's set there, but it's easily fixed in your PROFILE XEDIT. I did that in maybe 1983. My best guess is "because", as in, "That's how it was in XEDIT V0.1 and because it was so easy to change, nobody ever did". You could also use a tiny macro: /* CC XEDIT */ 'COMMAND PRESERVE' 'COMMAND SET TRUNC 72' 'COMMAND CLOCATE :72' 'COMMAND SET ZONE 72 72' 'COMMAND CINSERT *' 'COMMAND RESTORE' The greatest thing about XEDIT is how easy it is to do things like this. My XEDIT is almost unrecognizable to a newbie because it's so heavily customized (including things like tinkering with the CMS messages file via an override, so even the top and bottom lines are different). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
