Re: z/TPF questions

[Seymour J Metz]

Three digit is generally first or second generation. 3210, 3211 and 3215 are 
not terminals. 2301, 2303, 2321 and 7320 are DASD but not disks. 7340 is a tape 
drive. 2860, 2870 and 2880 are both 360 and 370. 14xx are second generation. 
While S/360 processors were generally 20xx, the 195 was 2195 (the 370 version 
was 3195.)


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org]
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 5:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/TPF questions

x2yz would be a terminal type device (e.g. 2260, 3270)
x3yz would be a disk type device (e.g. 2301, 2311, 2314, 3330, 3390)
x4yz would be a tape type device (e.g. 2400)
x5yz would be a card type device (e.g. 2540)
x7yz would be telecommunications type device (e.g. 2701, 2780, 3780)

In all cases x=2 would be "second generation," i.e. System 360; x=3 would
the "third generation," i.e. System 370.

x=1 would be first generation and is a different numbering scheme -- e.g.
1052 is a console, 1403 is a printer.

IIRC the S/360 CPUs were, e.g., 2040 for the 360/40 and the S/370 CPUs were,
e.g., 3155 for the 

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Dana Mitchell]

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 12:33:12 +0200, Mike Shorkend  
wrote:

>Also , there is a z/OS based product - ALCS - which provides the same
>functionality as TPF without the overhead of additional hardware, operating
>system , operational costs etc . So targeted at smaller shops.
>

Up until about a year and a half ago, we were running ALCS for online 
processing in the payments industry.  It was just a started task under z/OS.

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Timothy Sipples]

Radoslaw Skorupka got some good answers to his questions, but I can fill 
in some gaps:

2. While z/TPF can certainly run as a z/VM guest, that's at least not 
common for production instances.

3.1. There's a base z/TPF license plus some popular options such as the 
z/TPF High Performance Option (HPO) and z/TPF Database Facility (z/TPFDF). 
There are some other software products that are popular add-ons to the 
z/TPF -- some no additional charge, some not.

3.2. As many have mentioned, z/TPF tends to be extremely efficient in its 
real world implementations. Pricing only partially reflects its 
efficiency, i.e. most of its efficiency accrues to the benefit of its 
users.

4. I'm not aware of any particularly special LPAR definitions other than 
what has already been mentioned.

5. z/TPF can have speciality engines, but they're not zIIPs. As Parwez 
mentioned, in the unlikely event you ever need more SAPs than the standard 
system-provided default number, z/TPF is the most likely candidate to 
drive such a requirement (although even with z/TPF it's not a given). 
There's also the interesting concept of "specialty CPs" -- CPs that are 
technically CPs but that are priced and licensed for specific workloads. 
However, z/TPF isn't unique in this respect.

7. There's an active z/TPF users group called TPFUG:

http://www.tpfug.com

They're holding their next conference next month (April, 2021).

8. The most common industries using z/TPF are "T" (travel and 
transportation, including hospitality) and financial services 
(particularly in payments).

Regarding an earlier comment about programming languages, yes, the "big 
three-ish" programming languages for z/TPF are Assembler, C and C++, and 
Java. However, in principle any programming language that can run on the 
Java Virtual Machine is also available. Examples include Clojure, Kotlin, 
Jython, jRuby, NetRexx, Groovy, Scala, and Nashorn (JavaScript). Also, 
z/TPF can host the MySQL database. Thus SQL is a programming language 
for/on z/TPF.

Also, while it's popular for many reasons to pair z/TPF with z/OS, it's 
not strictly required.

- - - - - - - - - -
Timothy Sipples
I.T. Architect Executive
Digital Asset & Other Industry Solutions
IBM Z & LinuxONE
- - - - - - - - - -
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

The rules is *sometimes* true. But not always.

Few examples:
Tapes: 726, 727, 728, 729, 7330 ...24xx family, 34xx family, 3480, 3490 
---> 3590, 3592.

CPC: 9671, 20xx, 390x, 856x
Libraries: 3995, 3994, 3584, 3995...
Disk: 5444, 1405
and 7302 - not a disk...
2301 is a drum - DASD, but not disk


However fortunately this is finite list. And documented quite well. Of 
course similar and somehow consecutive names are easier to remember: 
when we talk about 3390, 3380, 3350, or 3330 we actually have to 
remember only one character. Things become worse when talking about 
93... yes. 93-something.



--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland



W dniu 21.03.2021 o 22:19, Charles Mills pisze:

x2yz would be a terminal type device (e.g. 2260, 3270)
x3yz would be a disk type device (e.g. 2301, 2311, 2314, 3330, 3390)
x4yz would be a tape type device (e.g. 2400)
x5yz would be a card type device (e.g. 2540)
x7yz would be telecommunications type device (e.g. 2701, 2780, 3780)

In all cases x=2 would be "second generation," i.e. System 360; x=3 would
the "third generation," i.e. System 370.

x=1 would be first generation and is a different numbering scheme -- e.g.
1052 is a console, 1403 is a printer.

IIRC the S/360 CPUs were, e.g., 2040 for the 360/40 and the S/370 CPUs were,
e.g., 3155 for the 370/155

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 12:49 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/TPF questions


The 3215 was the s/360 console printer keyboard

No; the 1052-7 was the console typewriter for various S/360 models. The 3210
and 3215 were console typewriters for low end S/370 models, eventually
replaced by special models of the 3270, e.g., 3278-2A, 3279-2C.

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z/TPF Questions

[Barry Merrill]

MXG Support for TPF:

 

Change 17.200  Support for IBM's TPF Operating System.

EXTPFxxForty datasets are created from the fifty or so records.

FORMATSSome datasets are written at monitor initialization to

IMACTPFmap things, but the interval records are deaccumulated

TPFINTRV   and written as individual PDB datasets, and then TPFINTRV

TYPETPFis invoked to summarize into PDB.TPFINTRV.  This support

VMACTPFhas been tested with data from one system, and TPFINTRV

VMXGINIT   intervals the SA/NX/SX/SU/SP/MD/MG/FV/FS/SC records.

VMXGTPFI   This is preliminary support, but TPFINTRV and its input

Aug  2, 1999   datasets have been tested extensively; there are still a

   number of questions and some variable names may change.

  For over two years I have requested the DSECTS for the

  TPF records; it took a vote of the TPF Users Group to

  "convince" IBM it would be worthwhile to allow MXG to

  support this high-speed transaction processing system.

  Formerly know at the Airline Control Program, it can

  drive 30,000 I/Os per second on an 8-engines CPC!

   The initial development of the VMACTPF code took 40 hours

   across four days to write about 4,000 lines of SAS code.

   Another 40 hours were required to add the roughly 400

   lines to deaccumulate and validate the PDB.TPFINTRV data.

   Thanks to Jack Opgenorth, Sabre, USA.

   Thanks to Linda Tallent, Sabre, USA.

 

Last Change:

 

Change 28.152  Support for zTPFC, TPF Continuous Monitoring has a few

EXTPFC92   fields added to existing datasets and two new datasets

EXTPFC98   added by this change

IMACTPFC

VMACTPFC  DDDATASET   Description

Jul  2, 2010

Jul 21, 2010  TPFC92TPFC92LPAR UTILIZATION

  TPFC98TPFC98DASD SERVICE TIME

   Thanks to Bob Wilcox, HP, USA.

 

Herbert W "Barry" Merrill, PHD

President-Programmer

Merrill Consultants

MXG Software

10717 Cromwell Drive

Dallas, TX 75229

www.mxg.com  

214 351 1966 

 

ad...@mxg.com   for business questions

supp...@mxg.com   for technical questions

ba...@mxg.com    

 


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Re: z/TPF questions

[Charles Mills]

x2yz would be a terminal type device (e.g. 2260, 3270)
x3yz would be a disk type device (e.g. 2301, 2311, 2314, 3330, 3390)
x4yz would be a tape type device (e.g. 2400)
x5yz would be a card type device (e.g. 2540)
x7yz would be telecommunications type device (e.g. 2701, 2780, 3780)

In all cases x=2 would be "second generation," i.e. System 360; x=3 would
the "third generation," i.e. System 370.

x=1 would be first generation and is a different numbering scheme -- e.g.
1052 is a console, 1403 is a printer.

IIRC the S/360 CPUs were, e.g., 2040 for the 360/40 and the S/370 CPUs were,
e.g., 3155 for the 370/155

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 12:49 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/TPF questions

> The 3215 was the s/360 console printer keyboard

No; the 1052-7 was the console typewriter for various S/360 models. The 3210
and 3215 were console typewriters for low end S/370 models, eventually
replaced by special models of the 3270, e.g., 3278-2A, 3279-2C.

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Seymour J Metz]

> The 3215 was the s/360 console printer keyboard

No; the 1052-7 was the console typewriter for various S/360 models. The 3210 
and 3215 were console typewriters for low end S/370 models, eventually replaced 
by special models of the 3270, e.g., 3278-2A, 3279-2C.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Attila Fogarasi [fogar...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2021 4:47 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/TPF questions

Programs on ACP were limited to 4k size originally, and files were limited
to 2 record sizes (short and long), the sizes being optimized for 3211 disk
geometry.  Those limitations were removed 40 years ago :)  However the
speed of zTPF comes from not allowing applications to do things that
require expensive services, such as z/OS provides.
The 3215 was the s/360 console printer keyboard (much faster than a
typewriter -- it had to keep up).  z/TPF still supports 3215 protocol via
OSA card, but also has 3270 support.  The 3215 protocol has some big
advantages when its a computer at the other end doing automation, so still
popular.

On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 3:35 PM Tom Brennan 
wrote:

> Ah... that makes sense.  Then they might have been going over that 32 CP
> limit fairly soon after the limit was changed.  Being the first on your
> block to run new code is no fun at 2 in the morning.
>
> On 3/19/2021 8:15 PM, Mike Schwab wrote:
> > I think the limit was 32 z processors in an LPAR.  They might have
> > raised it by now.  z15 can have 190 in high capacity order.
>
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Re: z/TPF questions

[David Spiegel]

You're right -- probably 2311 (DASD)
3211, however, was a printer.

On 2021-03-21 15:08, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:

W dniu 20.03.2021 o 09:47, Attila Fogarasi pisze:
Programs on ACP were limited to 4k size originally, and files were 
limited
to 2 record sizes (short and long), the sizes being optimized for 
3211 disk

geometry.  Those limitations were removed 40 years ago :) However the
speed of zTPF comes from not allowing applications to do things that
require expensive services, such as z/OS provides.


Excuse me, but what is 3211?
I suspect a typo, but I found nothing similar.
2311 is too old IMHO (1964).
Maybe 3330-11 ?




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Re: z/TPF questions

[Bill Johnson]

Xerox produced a 3211 cartridge disk system.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, March 21, 2021, 3:09 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka  
wrote:

W dniu 20.03.2021 o 09:47, Attila Fogarasi pisze:
> Programs on ACP were limited to 4k size originally, and files were limited
> to 2 record sizes (short and long), the sizes being optimized for 3211 disk
> geometry.  Those limitations were removed 40 years ago :)  However the
> speed of zTPF comes from not allowing applications to do things that
> require expensive services, such as z/OS provides.

Excuse me, but what is 3211?
I suspect a typo, but I found nothing similar.
2311 is too old IMHO (1964).
Maybe 3330-11 ?


-- 
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Seymour J Metz]

"3211" was presumably a typo for 2311, since the 3211 is an impact printer, 
substantially faster than the 1403 and with a forms control buffer (FCB) 
instead of a carriage tape.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Radoslaw Skorupka [r.skoru...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2021 3:08 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/TPF questions

W dniu 20.03.2021 o 09:47, Attila Fogarasi pisze:
> Programs on ACP were limited to 4k size originally, and files were limited
> to 2 record sizes (short and long), the sizes being optimized for 3211 disk
> geometry.  Those limitations were removed 40 years ago :)  However the
> speed of zTPF comes from not allowing applications to do things that
> require expensive services, such as z/OS provides.

Excuse me, but what is 3211?
I suspect a typo, but I found nothing similar.
2311 is too old IMHO (1964).
Maybe 3330-11 ?


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

W dniu 20.03.2021 o 09:47, Attila Fogarasi pisze:

Programs on ACP were limited to 4k size originally, and files were limited
to 2 record sizes (short and long), the sizes being optimized for 3211 disk
geometry.  Those limitations were removed 40 years ago :)  However the
speed of zTPF comes from not allowing applications to do things that
require expensive services, such as z/OS provides.


Excuse me, but what is 3211?
I suspect a typo, but I found nothing similar.
2311 is too old IMHO (1964).
Maybe 3330-11 ?


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

Charles,
I know Tom Brennan's Vista. I even got one from him. For free. (I didn't 
ask for it! It was a part of longer story, related to polish codepage). 
And I have no doubt he knows there are both 3270 and 5250.


However lurking or peeking is not the best method, especially you 
sometimes see that only awhile, from distance.

It has nothing to do with my or Tom's knowledge.

BTW: My wife was really upset when she heard what I found in a store, 
instead of jacket...


Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland




W dniu 21.03.2021 o 00:40, Charles Mills pisze:

My wild guess is that Tom Brennan knows a TN3270 client when he sees one.

@Tom: Was it yours?

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Radoslaw Skorupka
Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2021 3:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/TPF questions

W dniu 20.03.2021 o 17:42, Tom Brennan pisze:

On 3/20/2021 7:09 AM, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:


To be honest, out of curiosity I always peek the systems in use when
I'm served as customer.

Me too!  When I first started going to Kaiser the doctors had
Attachmate running with a long row of PF key buttons across the bottom
of the screen.  Years ago they switched to a GUI system. But... in
Southern California there's a beer/wine/liquor store called BevMo and
when I recently asked about a particular bottle, I looked over and the
guy was typing on a TN3270 screen.  I guess if something works, why
change it?

Curious: are you sure it is 3270, not 5250? AS/400 family is quite
popular in retail.
I had many false detections.
BTW: Our blood donation system use AS/400 system. Several years ago they
used real (hard) terminals. Now it is PCOMM. However doctor told me
there are plans to replace it with new shining gui system. As far
as I know they saw some prototype and they are very unhappy about the
change. Current system is simple and even new personnel have no problem
with that.  The new one will be modern, with all possible
modern features - malware, ransomware, data lost, logic errors,
administrative interface for PFCSKs connected via Internet...



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Re: z/TPF questions

[Tom Brennan]

Ha ha... I didn't get a good look, I just saw fields and text that 
appeared to be 3270.  No it wasn't mine :)


On 3/20/2021 4:40 PM, Charles Mills wrote:

My wild guess is that Tom Brennan knows a TN3270 client when he sees one.

@Tom: Was it yours?

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Radoslaw Skorupka
Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2021 3:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/TPF questions

W dniu 20.03.2021 o 17:42, Tom Brennan pisze:

On 3/20/2021 7:09 AM, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:


To be honest, out of curiosity I always peek the systems in use when
I'm served as customer.


Me too!  When I first started going to Kaiser the doctors had
Attachmate running with a long row of PF key buttons across the bottom
of the screen.  Years ago they switched to a GUI system. But... in
Southern California there's a beer/wine/liquor store called BevMo and
when I recently asked about a particular bottle, I looked over and the
guy was typing on a TN3270 screen.  I guess if something works, why
change it?


Curious: are you sure it is 3270, not 5250? AS/400 family is quite
popular in retail.
I had many false detections.
BTW: Our blood donation system use AS/400 system. Several years ago they
used real (hard) terminals. Now it is PCOMM. However doctor told me
there are plans to replace it with new shining gui system. As far
as I know they saw some prototype and they are very unhappy about the
change. Current system is simple and even new personnel have no problem
with that.  The new one will be modern, with all possible
modern features - malware, ransomware, data lost, logic errors,
administrative interface for PFCSKs connected via Internet...



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Re: z/TPF questions

[Tom Brennan]

On 3/20/2021 3:31 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:

W dniu 20.03.2021 o 17:42, Tom Brennan pisze:
Curious: are you sure it is 3270, not 5250? AS/400 family is quite 
popular in retail.


Not sure!  I didn't think of 5250 since I was brought up on a 3270.  But 
either way, it was probably running old code that just kept on working.


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Re: z/TPF questions

[Charles Mills]

My wild guess is that Tom Brennan knows a TN3270 client when he sees one.

@Tom: Was it yours?

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Radoslaw Skorupka
Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2021 3:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/TPF questions

W dniu 20.03.2021 o 17:42, Tom Brennan pisze:
> On 3/20/2021 7:09 AM, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
>
>> To be honest, out of curiosity I always peek the systems in use when 
>> I'm served as customer. 
>
> Me too!  When I first started going to Kaiser the doctors had 
> Attachmate running with a long row of PF key buttons across the bottom 
> of the screen.  Years ago they switched to a GUI system. But... in 
> Southern California there's a beer/wine/liquor store called BevMo and 
> when I recently asked about a particular bottle, I looked over and the 
> guy was typing on a TN3270 screen.  I guess if something works, why 
> change it?

Curious: are you sure it is 3270, not 5250? AS/400 family is quite 
popular in retail.
I had many false detections.
BTW: Our blood donation system use AS/400 system. Several years ago they 
used real (hard) terminals. Now it is PCOMM. However doctor told me 
there are plans to replace it with new shining gui system. As far 
as I know they saw some prototype and they are very unhappy about the 
change. Current system is simple and even new personnel have no problem 
with that.  The new one will be modern, with all possible 
modern features - malware, ransomware, data lost, logic errors, 
administrative interface for PFCSKs connected via Internet...

-- 
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

W dniu 20.03.2021 o 17:42, Tom Brennan pisze:

On 3/20/2021 7:09 AM, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:

To be honest, out of curiosity I always peek the systems in use when 
I'm served as customer. 


Me too!  When I first started going to Kaiser the doctors had 
Attachmate running with a long row of PF key buttons across the bottom 
of the screen.  Years ago they switched to a GUI system. But... in 
Southern California there's a beer/wine/liquor store called BevMo and 
when I recently asked about a particular bottle, I looked over and the 
guy was typing on a TN3270 screen.  I guess if something works, why 
change it?


Curious: are you sure it is 3270, not 5250? AS/400 family is quite 
popular in retail.

I had many false detections.
BTW: Our blood donation system use AS/400 system. Several years ago they 
used real (hard) terminals. Now it is PCOMM. However doctor told me 
there are plans to replace it with new shining gui system. As far 
as I know they saw some prototype and they are very unhappy about the 
change. Current system is simple and even new personnel have no problem 
with that.  The new one will be modern, with all possible 
modern features - malware, ransomware, data lost, logic errors, 
administrative interface for PFCSKs connected via Internet...


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Tom Brennan]

On 3/20/2021 7:09 AM, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:

To be honest, out of curiosity I always peek the systems in use when I'm 
served as customer. 


Me too!  When I first started going to Kaiser the doctors had Attachmate 
running with a long row of PF key buttons across the bottom of the 
screen.  Years ago they switched to a GUI system.  But... in Southern 
California there's a beer/wine/liquor store called BevMo and when I 
recently asked about a particular bottle, I looked over and the guy was 
typing on a TN3270 screen.  I guess if something works, why change it?


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Re: z/TPF questions

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

Well,
I thought there are important differences:
- hotels usually have more "seats".
- hotel have no time schedule for departures and arrivals. You cannot 
book a seat 5 minutes after departure, while in hotel it is possible all 
the time. IMHO this is the most important difference.
- of course both: hotels and planes have finite capacity and there are 
no "secondary extents". However full-empty is a matter of exception in 
the code, but not matter of high transaction volumes.


To be honest, out of curiosity I always peek the systems in use when I'm 
served as customer. That's why when I was shopping I observed 3270 
terminal emulator in the Peek & Cloppenburg shop. Instead of choosing 
new coat. ;-)
I also noticed 5250's in some megastores. And to be honest - a lot of 
obsolete stuff in american hotels. This is the last place when my VISA 
card was read mechanically  - I mean embossed numbers, not even magnetic 
stripe! It was long after my card had a chip. And I observed green 
screens, but often it had HP logo. What system? I don't know, I didn't 
bother clerks.
Last, but not least: I'm aware of only two hotel companies using TPF: 
IHS and Marriott (public information). Maybe other also use it, surely 
there are more big hotel networks.



--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland



W dniu 20.03.2021 o 04:17, Mike Schwab pisze:

Yep.  Flight / hotel number + seat / room number + date (/ time) +
customer number as the key with billing details.

On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 8:59 PM Bill Johnson
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Yup, hotel reservation isn’t much different than an airline reservation.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, March 19, 2021, 9:25 PM, Attila Fogarasi  wrote:

Why be surprised at hotels on the list (of zTPF users)?  A hotel is just an
airplane without wings :)
zTPF is great for any high volume transaction where there are few
transaction types but many per second (IBM claims million tps) and at low
cost.  The tradeoff is constrained application function, but not so bad now
with zTPF support all the open interfaces such as REST.  Think of it as a
stripped down IMS or CICS, with much leaner application interface.
Currently only C/C++, Java and assembler are supported as a programming
language, and some things only in C/C++.  zTPF has no LE malaise that z/OS
is saddled with :)

On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 12:00 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


Been around for decades as the airline system but usable by any industry
requiring massive throughput.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, March 19, 2021, 8:16 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka <
r.skoru...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Old only?
I have read about relatively new and small airlines, not mentioned below.
And of course airline control program is not really applicable to banks
and hotels. In fact I understand banks, but I'm really surprized at the
hotels on the list. What transaction workload do the have???


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland



W dniu 20.03.2021 o 01:11, Bill Johnson pisze:

The old yet still used airline control program.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, March 19, 2021, 8:03 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka <

r.skoru...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I know the IBM-MAIN forum is mostly about z/OS, but I wanted to ask
about about z/TPF - it seems to be on topic.

z/TPF

TPF is the system I have never seen.
I'm pretty sure there is no TPF installation in Poland.
However I'm curious about the following:
1. What is typical size of TPF system? I mean MIPS sizing. Is it huge or
rather small?
2. Does TPF typically run in bare LPAR or it is usually run under z/VM,
like z/VSE is?
3. What is the pricing of TPF?
3.1 Is it just single price per system, I mean no paid optional features
like in z/OS?
3.2 Is it expensive? I heard, it is much more expensive, when compared
to z/OS running on the same MIPS base.
4. Any special settings in LPAR definitions? I remember about specia
LPAR mode - ESA/TPF or so. However I don't know any explanation of the
difference.
5. Does it use regular CP's only? Or maybe there are some workloads
applicable to zIIP or even other processors?
6. Does it use SAP processors more extensively than other OSes? I heard
about it.
7. Does exist any z/TPF forum like IBM-MAIN?
8. What are known customers? I'm not asking about company secrets, but I
know (knowledge publicly available) about Citi, Marriott, VISA, BofA,
American Airlines, BA, Sabre, Amadeus and some more. Any other known
notable customers? Banks? ATMs? Reservations? Hotels? Anything else?

Any clue will be appreciated. I have to secret plan, I just want to
learn about it. Just curiosity.


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Re: z/TPF questions

[Jonathan Quay]

You'll find a bit more discussion about it on the VM listserv.  While z/OS is a 
requirement for the care and feeding of z/TPF, we use VM extensively as a 
development and test platform.  And yes, a hotel is an airplane without wings.  
We used TPF for rates and inventory at Holiday Inn/BHR/IHG before having a GDS 
take over that workload.

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Parwez Hamid]

Others have already covered some of the points and there is more about the 
history of z/TPF here - (I won't repeat what's already mentioned Wikipedia):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transaction_Processing_Facility
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/IBM_logo.svg/1200px-IBM_logo.svg.png]<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transaction_Processing_Facility>
Transaction Processing Facility - 
Wikipedia<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transaction_Processing_Facility>
Transaction Processing Facility (TPF) is an IBM real-time operating system for 
mainframe computers descended from the IBM System/360 family, including zSeries 
and System z9. TPF delivers fast, high-volume, high-throughput transaction 
processing, handling large, continuous loads of essentially simple transactions 
across large, geographically dispersed networks.
en.wikipedia.org

The key points about TPF were very high availability (Tightly and Loosely 
Coupled systems - Parallel Sysplex came many years after 'TPF' in its various 
guises and used the same 'timing' technology used by TPF), very high 
transaction rates, very fast IPL - over a minute was too long, ability to share 
data records with the multi-path locking facility in the early IBM DASD 
sub-systems.

At the risk of starting more discussion/debate, some general points not covered 
by Wikipedia:

  1.  TPF workloads requiring very high I/O rates , there has always been an 
option to get more than the standard number of I/O processors (SAPs). I 
believe, with today's cycle time and capacity of processing units, this is less 
of a concern.
  2.  CPSIME was a 'mini' version of the Airlines Control Program (ACP) 
specially developed for small airlines and ran on DOS/VSE. It then transitioned 
to ALCS running on 'MSV' or z/OS, as we know it today
  3.  During the late 80's TPF sysprogs and application developers (mainly 
assembler) were in very high demand and some managed to get eye-watering 
salaries . This was basically due to lack of skills and the high demand for 
these were driven by the new players in the Global Distribution Systems (GDS. 
to you and me, commonly known as reservation systems). The key players at that 
time were Amadeus, Galileo and a large European railway company.
  4.  Over time, due to consolidations etc. the number of TPF sites have not 
increased and a lot of airlines have 'outsourced' their reservation and 
departure control systems to the major GDSes. Some of the 'fares' component has 
been off loaded to alternative platforms.
  5.  With the concept of 'good enough' computing, high availability and 
'sub-second' response times with associated costs are not attractive to today's 
budget airlines who are using other platforms for reservations.

Regards

Parwez Hamid​


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Radoslaw Skorupka 
Sent: 20 March 2021 00:03
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: z/TPF questions

I know the IBM-MAIN forum is mostly about z/OS, but I wanted to ask
about about z/TPF - it seems to be on topic.

z/TPF

TPF is the system I have never seen.
I'm pretty sure there is no TPF installation in Poland.
However I'm curious about the following:
1. What is typical size of TPF system? I mean MIPS sizing. Is it huge or
rather small?
2. Does TPF typically run in bare LPAR or it is usually run under z/VM,
like z/VSE is?
3. What is the pricing of TPF?
3.1 Is it just single price per system, I mean no paid optional features
like in z/OS?
3.2 Is it expensive? I heard, it is much more expensive, when compared
to z/OS running on the same MIPS base.
4. Any special settings in LPAR definitions? I remember about specia
LPAR mode - ESA/TPF or so. However I don't know any explanation of the
difference.
5. Does it use regular CP's only? Or maybe there are some workloads
applicable to zIIP or even other processors?
6. Does it use SAP processors more extensively than other OSes? I heard
about it.
7. Does exist any z/TPF forum like IBM-MAIN?
8. What are known customers? I'm not asking about company secrets, but I
know (knowledge publicly available) about Citi, Marriott, VISA, BofA,
American Airlines, BA, Sabre, Amadeus and some more. Any other known
notable customers? Banks? ATMs? Reservations? Hotels? Anything else?

Any clue will be appreciated. I have to secret plan, I just want to
learn about it. Just curiosity.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Mike Shorkend]

Also , there is a z/OS based product - ALCS - which provides the same
functionality as TPF without the overhead of additional hardware, operating
system , operational costs etc . So targeted at smaller shops.

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 at 12:13, Mike Shorkend  wrote:

> I worked at an airline in the 90s. I was on the OS/390 team.There was an
> equivalent(much larger) TPF team. it is a very unique operating system. All
> it could do (and did it very well) was handle high volumes of transactions
> and database calls. I expect it has not changed much. Everything else, like
> compiling programs(assembler and C) , loading NCP, backups etc. was done by
> OS/390.
>
> The last I heard, there were about 30 licenses world wide,
>
> On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 at 06:35, Tom Brennan 
> wrote:
>
>> Ah... that makes sense.  Then they might have been going over that 32 CP
>> limit fairly soon after the limit was changed.  Being the first on your
>> block to run new code is no fun at 2 in the morning.
>>
>> On 3/19/2021 8:15 PM, Mike Schwab wrote:
>> > I think the limit was 32 z processors in an LPAR.  They might have
>> > raised it by now.  z15 can have 190 in high capacity order.
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>
>
> --
> Mike Shorkend
> m...@shorkend.com
> Tel: +972524208743
>
> 
>
> 
>
>

-- 
Mike Shorkend
m...@shorkend.com
Tel: +972524208743





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Re: z/TPF questions

[Mike Shorkend]

I worked at an airline in the 90s. I was on the OS/390 team.There was an
equivalent(much larger) TPF team. it is a very unique operating system. All
it could do (and did it very well) was handle high volumes of transactions
and database calls. I expect it has not changed much. Everything else, like
compiling programs(assembler and C) , loading NCP, backups etc. was done by
OS/390.

The last I heard, there were about 30 licenses world wide,

On Sat, 20 Mar 2021 at 06:35, Tom Brennan 
wrote:

> Ah... that makes sense.  Then they might have been going over that 32 CP
> limit fairly soon after the limit was changed.  Being the first on your
> block to run new code is no fun at 2 in the morning.
>
> On 3/19/2021 8:15 PM, Mike Schwab wrote:
> > I think the limit was 32 z processors in an LPAR.  They might have
> > raised it by now.  z15 can have 190 in high capacity order.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
Mike Shorkend
m...@shorkend.com
Tel: +972524208743





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Re: z/TPF questions

[Attila Fogarasi]

Programs on ACP were limited to 4k size originally, and files were limited
to 2 record sizes (short and long), the sizes being optimized for 3211 disk
geometry.  Those limitations were removed 40 years ago :)  However the
speed of zTPF comes from not allowing applications to do things that
require expensive services, such as z/OS provides.
The 3215 was the s/360 console printer keyboard (much faster than a
typewriter -- it had to keep up).  z/TPF still supports 3215 protocol via
OSA card, but also has 3270 support.  The 3215 protocol has some big
advantages when its a computer at the other end doing automation, so still
popular.

On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 3:35 PM Tom Brennan 
wrote:

> Ah... that makes sense.  Then they might have been going over that 32 CP
> limit fairly soon after the limit was changed.  Being the first on your
> block to run new code is no fun at 2 in the morning.
>
> On 3/19/2021 8:15 PM, Mike Schwab wrote:
> > I think the limit was 32 z processors in an LPAR.  They might have
> > raised it by now.  z15 can have 190 in high capacity order.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Tom Brennan]

Ah... that makes sense.  Then they might have been going over that 32 CP 
limit fairly soon after the limit was changed.  Being the first on your 
block to run new code is no fun at 2 in the morning.


On 3/19/2021 8:15 PM, Mike Schwab wrote:

I think the limit was 32 z processors in an LPAR.  They might have
raised it by now.  z15 can have 190 in high capacity order.


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Re: z/TPF questions

[Mike Schwab]

Yep.  Flight / hotel number + seat / room number + date (/ time) +
customer number as the key with billing details.

On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 8:59 PM Bill Johnson
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Yup, hotel reservation isn’t much different than an airline reservation.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, March 19, 2021, 9:25 PM, Attila Fogarasi  
> wrote:
>
> Why be surprised at hotels on the list (of zTPF users)?  A hotel is just an
> airplane without wings :)
> zTPF is great for any high volume transaction where there are few
> transaction types but many per second (IBM claims million tps) and at low
> cost.  The tradeoff is constrained application function, but not so bad now
> with zTPF support all the open interfaces such as REST.  Think of it as a
> stripped down IMS or CICS, with much leaner application interface.
> Currently only C/C++, Java and assembler are supported as a programming
> language, and some things only in C/C++.  zTPF has no LE malaise that z/OS
> is saddled with :)
>
> On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 12:00 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > Been around for decades as the airline system but usable by any industry
> > requiring massive throughput.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Friday, March 19, 2021, 8:16 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka <
> > r.skoru...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Old only?
> > I have read about relatively new and small airlines, not mentioned below.
> > And of course airline control program is not really applicable to banks
> > and hotels. In fact I understand banks, but I'm really surprized at the
> > hotels on the list. What transaction workload do the have???
> >
> >
> > --
> > Radoslaw Skorupka
> > (looking for new job)
> > Lodz, Poland
> >
> >
> >
> > W dniu 20.03.2021 o 01:11, Bill Johnson pisze:
> > > The old yet still used airline control program.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > > On Friday, March 19, 2021, 8:03 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka <
> > r.skoru...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I know the IBM-MAIN forum is mostly about z/OS, but I wanted to ask
> > > about about z/TPF - it seems to be on topic.
> > >
> > > z/TPF
> > >
> > > TPF is the system I have never seen.
> > > I'm pretty sure there is no TPF installation in Poland.
> > > However I'm curious about the following:
> > > 1. What is typical size of TPF system? I mean MIPS sizing. Is it huge or
> > > rather small?
> > > 2. Does TPF typically run in bare LPAR or it is usually run under z/VM,
> > > like z/VSE is?
> > > 3. What is the pricing of TPF?
> > > 3.1 Is it just single price per system, I mean no paid optional features
> > > like in z/OS?
> > > 3.2 Is it expensive? I heard, it is much more expensive, when compared
> > > to z/OS running on the same MIPS base.
> > > 4. Any special settings in LPAR definitions? I remember about specia
> > > LPAR mode - ESA/TPF or so. However I don't know any explanation of the
> > > difference.
> > > 5. Does it use regular CP's only? Or maybe there are some workloads
> > > applicable to zIIP or even other processors?
> > > 6. Does it use SAP processors more extensively than other OSes? I heard
> > > about it.
> > > 7. Does exist any z/TPF forum like IBM-MAIN?
> > > 8. What are known customers? I'm not asking about company secrets, but I
> > > know (knowledge publicly available) about Citi, Marriott, VISA, BofA,
> > > American Airlines, BA, Sabre, Amadeus and some more. Any other known
> > > notable customers? Banks? ATMs? Reservations? Hotels? Anything else?
> > >
> > > Any clue will be appreciated. I have to secret plan, I just want to
> > > learn about it. Just curiosity.
> > >
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
>
> --
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>
>
>
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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Mike Schwab]

I think the limit was 32 z processors in an LPAR.  They might have
raised it by now.  z15 can have 190 in high capacity order.

On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 9:09 PM Radoslaw Skorupka
 wrote:
>
> Yes, I also heard about quick IPL time, I was even heard about under
> minute times. Of course I cannot test it.
>
> Regarding 3215 - it is another type of console. In z/OS realm we use
> 3270 family, but z/VM (CMS) like 3215 and there is TERMINAL CONMODE
> command to change the type of emulated device.
> However it seems TPF expect 3215 device and no CONMODE is available.
> Many years ago (z10?) new optional (paid) hardware feature was added to
> the machine - it is 3215 mode of OSA-ICC emulated terminals. When you
> have it enabled you see more tabs and windows on HMC.
>
> BTW: 30 CPs sounds amazing for me. I have never touch such big
> configurations except some drills in Montpellier (IBM site). Fortunately
> I had not to pay for it.
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> (looking for new job)
> Lodz, Poland
>
>
>
>
> W dniu 20.03.2021 o 02:45, Tom Brennan pisze:
> > I hardly know anything about it, but about a year ago I watched an IPL
> > at one of the customers you mentioned.  TPF was running on a z15 with
> > over 30 full-speed CP's.  Their support guy mentioned he was concerned
> > that they may be running more TPF CP's on a single box than anyone
> > else in the world (bleeding edge).  There were no zIIPs on the
> > machine, but that doesn't necessarily mean TPF can't use them... I
> > just don't know.
> >
> > I asked the support guy, So what do you do for a local backup, when an
> > IPL is needed like tonight?  Nothing!  There is no HA backup other
> > than DR (local and remote).  Why?  Because the IPL took maybe 3
> > minutes total!  I guess there is little reason for sysplex or whatever
> > (if TPF even supports such things).
> >
> > This was one LPAR bare metal running a single TPF instance for the
> > entire company processing.  Amazingly fast compared to z/OS.  The only
> > special thing I remember was a feature code that allows TPF to have a
> > kind of ICC terminal - FC 0034 OSA ICC- 3215 Enablement - whatever a
> > 3215 is I don't know.
> >
> > On 3/19/2021 5:03 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
> >> I know the IBM-MAIN forum is mostly about z/OS, but I wanted to ask
> >> about about z/TPF - it seems to be on topic.
> >>
> >> z/TPF
> >>
> >> TPF is the system I have never seen.
> >> I'm pretty sure there is no TPF installation in Poland.
> >> However I'm curious about the following:
> >> 1. What is typical size of TPF system? I mean MIPS sizing. Is it huge
> >> or rather small?
> >> 2. Does TPF typically run in bare LPAR or it is usually run under
> >> z/VM, like z/VSE is?
> >> 3. What is the pricing of TPF?
> >> 3.1 Is it just single price per system, I mean no paid optional
> >> features like in z/OS?
> >> 3.2 Is it expensive? I heard, it is much more expensive, when
> >> compared to z/OS running on the same MIPS base.
> >> 4. Any special settings in LPAR definitions? I remember about specia
> >> LPAR mode - ESA/TPF or so. However I don't know any explanation of
> >> the difference.
> >> 5. Does it use regular CP's only? Or maybe there are some workloads
> >> applicable to zIIP or even other processors?
> >> 6. Does it use SAP processors more extensively than other OSes? I
> >> heard about it.
> >> 7. Does exist any z/TPF forum like IBM-MAIN?
> >> 8. What are known customers? I'm not asking about company secrets,
> >> but I know (knowledge publicly available) about Citi, Marriott, VISA,
> >> BofA, American Airlines, BA, Sabre, Amadeus and some more. Any other
> >> known notable customers? Banks? ATMs? Reservations? Hotels? Anything
> >> else?
> >>
> >> Any clue will be appreciated. I have to secret plan, I just want to
> >> learn about it. Just curiosity.
> >>
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> --
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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

Yes, I also heard about quick IPL time, I was even heard about under 
minute times. Of course I cannot test it.


Regarding 3215 - it is another type of console. In z/OS realm we use 
3270 family, but z/VM (CMS) like 3215 and there is TERMINAL CONMODE 
command to change the type of emulated device.
However it seems TPF expect 3215 device and no CONMODE is available. 
Many years ago (z10?) new optional (paid) hardware feature was added to 
the machine - it is 3215 mode of OSA-ICC emulated terminals. When you 
have it enabled you see more tabs and windows on HMC.


BTW: 30 CPs sounds amazing for me. I have never touch such big 
configurations except some drills in Montpellier (IBM site). Fortunately 
I had not to pay for it.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland




W dniu 20.03.2021 o 02:45, Tom Brennan pisze:
I hardly know anything about it, but about a year ago I watched an IPL 
at one of the customers you mentioned.  TPF was running on a z15 with 
over 30 full-speed CP's.  Their support guy mentioned he was concerned 
that they may be running more TPF CP's on a single box than anyone 
else in the world (bleeding edge).  There were no zIIPs on the 
machine, but that doesn't necessarily mean TPF can't use them... I 
just don't know.


I asked the support guy, So what do you do for a local backup, when an 
IPL is needed like tonight?  Nothing!  There is no HA backup other 
than DR (local and remote).  Why?  Because the IPL took maybe 3 
minutes total!  I guess there is little reason for sysplex or whatever 
(if TPF even supports such things).


This was one LPAR bare metal running a single TPF instance for the 
entire company processing.  Amazingly fast compared to z/OS.  The only 
special thing I remember was a feature code that allows TPF to have a 
kind of ICC terminal - FC 0034 OSA ICC- 3215 Enablement - whatever a 
3215 is I don't know.


On 3/19/2021 5:03 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
I know the IBM-MAIN forum is mostly about z/OS, but I wanted to ask 
about about z/TPF - it seems to be on topic.


z/TPF

TPF is the system I have never seen.
I'm pretty sure there is no TPF installation in Poland.
However I'm curious about the following:
1. What is typical size of TPF system? I mean MIPS sizing. Is it huge 
or rather small?
2. Does TPF typically run in bare LPAR or it is usually run under 
z/VM, like z/VSE is?

3. What is the pricing of TPF?
3.1 Is it just single price per system, I mean no paid optional 
features like in z/OS?
3.2 Is it expensive? I heard, it is much more expensive, when 
compared to z/OS running on the same MIPS base.
4. Any special settings in LPAR definitions? I remember about specia 
LPAR mode - ESA/TPF or so. However I don't know any explanation of 
the difference.
5. Does it use regular CP's only? Or maybe there are some workloads 
applicable to zIIP or even other processors?
6. Does it use SAP processors more extensively than other OSes? I 
heard about it.

7. Does exist any z/TPF forum like IBM-MAIN?
8. What are known customers? I'm not asking about company secrets, 
but I know (knowledge publicly available) about Citi, Marriott, VISA, 
BofA, American Airlines, BA, Sabre, Amadeus and some more. Any other 
known notable customers? Banks? ATMs? Reservations? Hotels? Anything 
else?


Any clue will be appreciated. I have to secret plan, I just want to 
learn about it. Just curiosity.




--
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Re: z/TPF questions

[John McKown]

I worked at Braniff Airways back in the late '70s and early 80s' supporting
MVT (yes MVT on a 3033 which required an RQP). They ran ACP (Airline
control Program), which I think is the origin of z/TPF. I watched them do
an IPL once. It seems just a few seconds and the operators were busy typing
commands on the console. They said they were activating teleprocessing
lines for airports. I just stood there with my jaw on the floor.


The programmers also said that all the programs they wrote, in assembler on
MVT curiously enough, had to be exactly 4K in size. If it was longer, they
would do the equivalent of an XCTL as the last thing to continue.All the
DASD was formatted in 4K records. IIRC, it was considered one bit database,
even the programs. But my mind is fuzzy on all this.


On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 8:45 PM Tom Brennan 
wrote:

> I hardly know anything about it, but about a year ago I watched an IPL
> at one of the customers you mentioned.  TPF was running on a z15 with
> over 30 full-speed CP's.  Their support guy mentioned he was concerned
> that they may be running more TPF CP's on a single box than anyone else
> in the world (bleeding edge).  There were no zIIPs on the machine, but
> that doesn't necessarily mean TPF can't use them... I just don't know.
>
> I asked the support guy, So what do you do for a local backup, when an
> IPL is needed like tonight?  Nothing!  There is no HA backup other than
> DR (local and remote).  Why?  Because the IPL took maybe 3 minutes
> total!  I guess there is little reason for sysplex or whatever (if TPF
> even supports such things).
>
> This was one LPAR bare metal running a single TPF instance for the
> entire company processing.  Amazingly fast compared to z/OS.  The only
> special thing I remember was a feature code that allows TPF to have a
> kind of ICC terminal - FC 0034 OSA ICC- 3215 Enablement - whatever a
> 3215 is I don't know.
>
> On 3/19/2021 5:03 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
> > I know the IBM-MAIN forum is mostly about z/OS, but I wanted to ask
> > about about z/TPF - it seems to be on topic.
> >
> > z/TPF
> >
> > TPF is the system I have never seen.
> > I'm pretty sure there is no TPF installation in Poland.
> > However I'm curious about the following:
> > 1. What is typical size of TPF system? I mean MIPS sizing. Is it huge or
> > rather small?
> > 2. Does TPF typically run in bare LPAR or it is usually run under z/VM,
> > like z/VSE is?
> > 3. What is the pricing of TPF?
> > 3.1 Is it just single price per system, I mean no paid optional features
> > like in z/OS?
> > 3.2 Is it expensive? I heard, it is much more expensive, when compared
> > to z/OS running on the same MIPS base.
> > 4. Any special settings in LPAR definitions? I remember about specia
> > LPAR mode - ESA/TPF or so. However I don't know any explanation of the
> > difference.
> > 5. Does it use regular CP's only? Or maybe there are some workloads
> > applicable to zIIP or even other processors?
> > 6. Does it use SAP processors more extensively than other OSes? I heard
> > about it.
> > 7. Does exist any z/TPF forum like IBM-MAIN?
> > 8. What are known customers? I'm not asking about company secrets, but I
> > know (knowledge publicly available) about Citi, Marriott, VISA, BofA,
> > American Airlines, BA, Sabre, Amadeus and some more. Any other known
> > notable customers? Banks? ATMs? Reservations? Hotels? Anything else?
> >
> > Any clue will be appreciated. I have to secret plan, I just want to
> > learn about it. Just curiosity.
> >
>
> --
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> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Bill Johnson]

Yup, hotel reservation isn’t much different than an airline reservation.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, March 19, 2021, 9:25 PM, Attila Fogarasi  wrote:

Why be surprised at hotels on the list (of zTPF users)?  A hotel is just an
airplane without wings :)
zTPF is great for any high volume transaction where there are few
transaction types but many per second (IBM claims million tps) and at low
cost.  The tradeoff is constrained application function, but not so bad now
with zTPF support all the open interfaces such as REST.  Think of it as a
stripped down IMS or CICS, with much leaner application interface.
Currently only C/C++, Java and assembler are supported as a programming
language, and some things only in C/C++.  zTPF has no LE malaise that z/OS
is saddled with :)

On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 12:00 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Been around for decades as the airline system but usable by any industry
> requiring massive throughput.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, March 19, 2021, 8:16 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka <
> r.skoru...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Old only?
> I have read about relatively new and small airlines, not mentioned below.
> And of course airline control program is not really applicable to banks
> and hotels. In fact I understand banks, but I'm really surprized at the
> hotels on the list. What transaction workload do the have???
>
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> (looking for new job)
> Lodz, Poland
>
>
>
> W dniu 20.03.2021 o 01:11, Bill Johnson pisze:
> > The old yet still used airline control program.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Friday, March 19, 2021, 8:03 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka <
> r.skoru...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I know the IBM-MAIN forum is mostly about z/OS, but I wanted to ask
> > about about z/TPF - it seems to be on topic.
> >
> > z/TPF
> >
> > TPF is the system I have never seen.
> > I'm pretty sure there is no TPF installation in Poland.
> > However I'm curious about the following:
> > 1. What is typical size of TPF system? I mean MIPS sizing. Is it huge or
> > rather small?
> > 2. Does TPF typically run in bare LPAR or it is usually run under z/VM,
> > like z/VSE is?
> > 3. What is the pricing of TPF?
> > 3.1 Is it just single price per system, I mean no paid optional features
> > like in z/OS?
> > 3.2 Is it expensive? I heard, it is much more expensive, when compared
> > to z/OS running on the same MIPS base.
> > 4. Any special settings in LPAR definitions? I remember about specia
> > LPAR mode - ESA/TPF or so. However I don't know any explanation of the
> > difference.
> > 5. Does it use regular CP's only? Or maybe there are some workloads
> > applicable to zIIP or even other processors?
> > 6. Does it use SAP processors more extensively than other OSes? I heard
> > about it.
> > 7. Does exist any z/TPF forum like IBM-MAIN?
> > 8. What are known customers? I'm not asking about company secrets, but I
> > know (knowledge publicly available) about Citi, Marriott, VISA, BofA,
> > American Airlines, BA, Sabre, Amadeus and some more. Any other known
> > notable customers? Banks? ATMs? Reservations? Hotels? Anything else?
> >
> > Any clue will be appreciated. I have to secret plan, I just want to
> > learn about it. Just curiosity.
> >
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Tom Brennan]

I hardly know anything about it, but about a year ago I watched an IPL 
at one of the customers you mentioned.  TPF was running on a z15 with 
over 30 full-speed CP's.  Their support guy mentioned he was concerned 
that they may be running more TPF CP's on a single box than anyone else 
in the world (bleeding edge).  There were no zIIPs on the machine, but 
that doesn't necessarily mean TPF can't use them... I just don't know.


I asked the support guy, So what do you do for a local backup, when an 
IPL is needed like tonight?  Nothing!  There is no HA backup other than 
DR (local and remote).  Why?  Because the IPL took maybe 3 minutes 
total!  I guess there is little reason for sysplex or whatever (if TPF 
even supports such things).


This was one LPAR bare metal running a single TPF instance for the 
entire company processing.  Amazingly fast compared to z/OS.  The only 
special thing I remember was a feature code that allows TPF to have a 
kind of ICC terminal - FC 0034 OSA ICC- 3215 Enablement - whatever a 
3215 is I don't know.


On 3/19/2021 5:03 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
I know the IBM-MAIN forum is mostly about z/OS, but I wanted to ask 
about about z/TPF - it seems to be on topic.


z/TPF

TPF is the system I have never seen.
I'm pretty sure there is no TPF installation in Poland.
However I'm curious about the following:
1. What is typical size of TPF system? I mean MIPS sizing. Is it huge or 
rather small?
2. Does TPF typically run in bare LPAR or it is usually run under z/VM, 
like z/VSE is?

3. What is the pricing of TPF?
3.1 Is it just single price per system, I mean no paid optional features 
like in z/OS?
3.2 Is it expensive? I heard, it is much more expensive, when compared 
to z/OS running on the same MIPS base.
4. Any special settings in LPAR definitions? I remember about specia 
LPAR mode - ESA/TPF or so. However I don't know any explanation of the 
difference.
5. Does it use regular CP's only? Or maybe there are some workloads 
applicable to zIIP or even other processors?
6. Does it use SAP processors more extensively than other OSes? I heard 
about it.

7. Does exist any z/TPF forum like IBM-MAIN?
8. What are known customers? I'm not asking about company secrets, but I 
know (knowledge publicly available) about Citi, Marriott, VISA, BofA, 
American Airlines, BA, Sabre, Amadeus and some more. Any other known 
notable customers? Banks? ATMs? Reservations? Hotels? Anything else?


Any clue will be appreciated. I have to secret plan, I just want to 
learn about it. Just curiosity.




--
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Re: z/TPF questions

[Attila Fogarasi]

Why be surprised at hotels on the list (of zTPF users)?  A hotel is just an
airplane without wings :)
zTPF is great for any high volume transaction where there are few
transaction types but many per second (IBM claims million tps) and at low
cost.  The tradeoff is constrained application function, but not so bad now
with zTPF support all the open interfaces such as REST.  Think of it as a
stripped down IMS or CICS, with much leaner application interface.
Currently only C/C++, Java and assembler are supported as a programming
language, and some things only in C/C++.  zTPF has no LE malaise that z/OS
is saddled with :)

On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 12:00 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Been around for decades as the airline system but usable by any industry
> requiring massive throughput.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, March 19, 2021, 8:16 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka <
> r.skoru...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Old only?
> I have read about relatively new and small airlines, not mentioned below.
> And of course airline control program is not really applicable to banks
> and hotels. In fact I understand banks, but I'm really surprized at the
> hotels on the list. What transaction workload do the have???
>
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> (looking for new job)
> Lodz, Poland
>
>
>
> W dniu 20.03.2021 o 01:11, Bill Johnson pisze:
> > The old yet still used airline control program.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Friday, March 19, 2021, 8:03 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka <
> r.skoru...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I know the IBM-MAIN forum is mostly about z/OS, but I wanted to ask
> > about about z/TPF - it seems to be on topic.
> >
> > z/TPF
> >
> > TPF is the system I have never seen.
> > I'm pretty sure there is no TPF installation in Poland.
> > However I'm curious about the following:
> > 1. What is typical size of TPF system? I mean MIPS sizing. Is it huge or
> > rather small?
> > 2. Does TPF typically run in bare LPAR or it is usually run under z/VM,
> > like z/VSE is?
> > 3. What is the pricing of TPF?
> > 3.1 Is it just single price per system, I mean no paid optional features
> > like in z/OS?
> > 3.2 Is it expensive? I heard, it is much more expensive, when compared
> > to z/OS running on the same MIPS base.
> > 4. Any special settings in LPAR definitions? I remember about specia
> > LPAR mode - ESA/TPF or so. However I don't know any explanation of the
> > difference.
> > 5. Does it use regular CP's only? Or maybe there are some workloads
> > applicable to zIIP or even other processors?
> > 6. Does it use SAP processors more extensively than other OSes? I heard
> > about it.
> > 7. Does exist any z/TPF forum like IBM-MAIN?
> > 8. What are known customers? I'm not asking about company secrets, but I
> > know (knowledge publicly available) about Citi, Marriott, VISA, BofA,
> > American Airlines, BA, Sabre, Amadeus and some more. Any other known
> > notable customers? Banks? ATMs? Reservations? Hotels? Anything else?
> >
> > Any clue will be appreciated. I have to secret plan, I just want to
> > learn about it. Just curiosity.
> >
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> --
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> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: z/TPF questions

[Bill Johnson]

Been around for decades as the airline system but usable by any industry 
requiring massive throughput. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, March 19, 2021, 8:16 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka  
wrote:

Old only?
I have read about relatively new and small airlines, not mentioned below.
And of course airline control program is not really applicable to banks 
and hotels. In fact I understand banks, but I'm really surprized at the 
hotels on the list. What transaction workload do the have???


-- 
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland



W dniu 20.03.2021 o 01:11, Bill Johnson pisze:
> The old yet still used airline control program.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, March 19, 2021, 8:03 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka 
>  wrote:
>
> I know the IBM-MAIN forum is mostly about z/OS, but I wanted to ask
> about about z/TPF - it seems to be on topic.
>
> z/TPF
>
> TPF is the system I have never seen.
> I'm pretty sure there is no TPF installation in Poland.
> However I'm curious about the following:
> 1. What is typical size of TPF system? I mean MIPS sizing. Is it huge or
> rather small?
> 2. Does TPF typically run in bare LPAR or it is usually run under z/VM,
> like z/VSE is?
> 3. What is the pricing of TPF?
> 3.1 Is it just single price per system, I mean no paid optional features
> like in z/OS?
> 3.2 Is it expensive? I heard, it is much more expensive, when compared
> to z/OS running on the same MIPS base.
> 4. Any special settings in LPAR definitions? I remember about specia
> LPAR mode - ESA/TPF or so. However I don't know any explanation of the
> difference.
> 5. Does it use regular CP's only? Or maybe there are some workloads
> applicable to zIIP or even other processors?
> 6. Does it use SAP processors more extensively than other OSes? I heard
> about it.
> 7. Does exist any z/TPF forum like IBM-MAIN?
> 8. What are known customers? I'm not asking about company secrets, but I
> know (knowledge publicly available) about Citi, Marriott, VISA, BofA,
> American Airlines, BA, Sabre, Amadeus and some more. Any other known
> notable customers? Banks? ATMs? Reservations? Hotels? Anything else?
>
> Any clue will be appreciated. I have to secret plan, I just want to
> learn about it. Just curiosity.
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




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Re: z/TPF questions

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

Old only?
I have read about relatively new and small airlines, not mentioned below.
And of course airline control program is not really applicable to banks 
and hotels. In fact I understand banks, but I'm really surprized at the 
hotels on the list. What transaction workload do the have???



--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland



W dniu 20.03.2021 o 01:11, Bill Johnson pisze:

The old yet still used airline control program.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, March 19, 2021, 8:03 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka  
wrote:

I know the IBM-MAIN forum is mostly about z/OS, but I wanted to ask
about about z/TPF - it seems to be on topic.

z/TPF

TPF is the system I have never seen.
I'm pretty sure there is no TPF installation in Poland.
However I'm curious about the following:
1. What is typical size of TPF system? I mean MIPS sizing. Is it huge or
rather small?
2. Does TPF typically run in bare LPAR or it is usually run under z/VM,
like z/VSE is?
3. What is the pricing of TPF?
3.1 Is it just single price per system, I mean no paid optional features
like in z/OS?
3.2 Is it expensive? I heard, it is much more expensive, when compared
to z/OS running on the same MIPS base.
4. Any special settings in LPAR definitions? I remember about specia
LPAR mode - ESA/TPF or so. However I don't know any explanation of the
difference.
5. Does it use regular CP's only? Or maybe there are some workloads
applicable to zIIP or even other processors?
6. Does it use SAP processors more extensively than other OSes? I heard
about it.
7. Does exist any z/TPF forum like IBM-MAIN?
8. What are known customers? I'm not asking about company secrets, but I
know (knowledge publicly available) about Citi, Marriott, VISA, BofA,
American Airlines, BA, Sabre, Amadeus and some more. Any other known
notable customers? Banks? ATMs? Reservations? Hotels? Anything else?

Any clue will be appreciated. I have to secret plan, I just want to
learn about it. Just curiosity.



--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: z/TPF questions

[Bill Johnson]

The old yet still used airline control program. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, March 19, 2021, 8:03 PM, Radoslaw Skorupka  
wrote:

I know the IBM-MAIN forum is mostly about z/OS, but I wanted to ask 
about about z/TPF - it seems to be on topic.

z/TPF

TPF is the system I have never seen.
I'm pretty sure there is no TPF installation in Poland.
However I'm curious about the following:
1. What is typical size of TPF system? I mean MIPS sizing. Is it huge or 
rather small?
2. Does TPF typically run in bare LPAR or it is usually run under z/VM, 
like z/VSE is?
3. What is the pricing of TPF?
3.1 Is it just single price per system, I mean no paid optional features 
like in z/OS?
3.2 Is it expensive? I heard, it is much more expensive, when compared 
to z/OS running on the same MIPS base.
4. Any special settings in LPAR definitions? I remember about specia 
LPAR mode - ESA/TPF or so. However I don't know any explanation of the 
difference.
5. Does it use regular CP's only? Or maybe there are some workloads 
applicable to zIIP or even other processors?
6. Does it use SAP processors more extensively than other OSes? I heard 
about it.
7. Does exist any z/TPF forum like IBM-MAIN?
8. What are known customers? I'm not asking about company secrets, but I 
know (knowledge publicly available) about Citi, Marriott, VISA, BofA, 
American Airlines, BA, Sabre, Amadeus and some more. Any other known 
notable customers? Banks? ATMs? Reservations? Hotels? Anything else?

Any clue will be appreciated. I have to secret plan, I just want to 
learn about it. Just curiosity.

-- 
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




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z/TPF questions

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

I know the IBM-MAIN forum is mostly about z/OS, but I wanted to ask 
about about z/TPF - it seems to be on topic.


z/TPF

TPF is the system I have never seen.
I'm pretty sure there is no TPF installation in Poland.
However I'm curious about the following:
1. What is typical size of TPF system? I mean MIPS sizing. Is it huge or 
rather small?
2. Does TPF typically run in bare LPAR or it is usually run under z/VM, 
like z/VSE is?

3. What is the pricing of TPF?
3.1 Is it just single price per system, I mean no paid optional features 
like in z/OS?
3.2 Is it expensive? I heard, it is much more expensive, when compared 
to z/OS running on the same MIPS base.
4. Any special settings in LPAR definitions? I remember about specia 
LPAR mode - ESA/TPF or so. However I don't know any explanation of the 
difference.
5. Does it use regular CP's only? Or maybe there are some workloads 
applicable to zIIP or even other processors?
6. Does it use SAP processors more extensively than other OSes? I heard 
about it.

7. Does exist any z/TPF forum like IBM-MAIN?
8. What are known customers? I'm not asking about company secrets, but I 
know (knowledge publicly available) about Citi, Marriott, VISA, BofA, 
American Airlines, BA, Sabre, Amadeus and some more. Any other known 
notable customers? Banks? ATMs? Reservations? Hotels? Anything else?


Any clue will be appreciated. I have to secret plan, I just want to 
learn about it. Just curiosity.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN