Re: [Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Roshan George ros...@arjie.com wrote: Your friends need VLC and they don't know it. You _must_ help them! Oh yes, one of them has still stuck with Ubuntu after I installed VLC for her. So I did :) Many don't have internet access, and apt offline is not the easiest thing in the world for them to use. And even if they *do* have, they seem to prefer something a web interface (ala download.com) rather than Synaptic (which's problem is, I think, too many packages). I've helped about 7 friends install Linux, and except 1 nobody has stuck with it (even after getting multimedia to work) Ubuntu Software Center is a step in the right direction. But the problem is, once they're bitten by a bad experience, they are extremely reluctant to try Linux again. -- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
Ubuntu Software Center is a step in the right direction. But the problem is, once they're bitten by a bad experience, they are extremely reluctant to try Linux again. +1, I personally faced this situation in more than one occasions. Share your thoughts and ways to over come this. the window user's feel disappointed once they don't the same set of pirated software's what they user earlier in windows. I hardly one two takes great struggle to over this they become long time Linux users, rest simply wipe their disc and they moved back to earlier state, happily feel that they are back to their window -- Ravi Jaya Mobile: +91 97909 16181 ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
disappointed once they don't the same set of pirated software's what they user earlier in windows. I hardly one two takes great struggle to over this they become long time Linux users, rest simply wipe their disc and they moved back to earlier state, happily feel that they are back to their window I believe if you make them use Ubuntu/Fedora, the result will be the same always. Normal users are bound to look for the same things they are used to no matter what OS they use (Mac included). I believe if you wish Windows users to migrate to Linux, the most user friendly distro I have come across is definitely Linux Mint. Very user friendly and everything is really simple to setup. And the best part? It has all multimedia drivers built-in and is based on the solid platform of Ubuntu. I have successfully migrated my wife as well as my brother to it. They haven't looked back since :) The latest is Linux Mint 9 - Isadora. HTH. Abhi attachment: face-smile.png___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
Hi All, Happy to see so many views on this topic. I just shared my experiences over the past few years. the reality is that most MNC's have a centralised authentication system, which unfortunately is MS AD. the intranet sites may be powered by Linux, and in such case, there is the necessity that Linux server has to integrate with windows domain. If that is possible, then i am sure, much of the intranet sites will be powered using Linux rather than Windows, as it would greatly reduce their Project and Account Cost for each manager. There are few open source apache modules like mod_NTLM, mod_auth_kerb.. but there is hell lot of problem in implementing those.. In my view, this should be a best case for taking it up as research project by ME students, who really want to do programming at system level involving cryptography etc.. Infact i used to say this to those students who ask me about final year project.. On Linux as Desktop, we have to accept the reality that, how far linux has evolved through ubuntu, it still lack the finesse of windows, which inspite of its crashes, is ruling the roost.. what is that special thing that windows has as edge over linux.. Is it possible for us to find it without locking ourseves to FOSS ideology.. in my view, more than ideology, the purpose is important.. and here our purpose is NOT to uphold FOSS, but to improve FOSS to match the microsoft's feature set.. many of the FOSS softwares exceed microsoft based products, but there are key areas where FOSS is really lacking.. Desktop is one such thing.. we need to understand the strengths and weakness of FOSS vs MS to give MS a tough fight Regards, Senthil ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
Happy to see so many views on this topic. I just shared my experiences over the past few years. the reality is that most MNC's have a centralised authentication system, which unfortunately is MS AD. the intranet sites may be powered by Linux, and in such case, there is the necessity that Linux server has to integrate with windows domain. Senthil, the parts which I disagree with you on is that MNC's universally use MS AD. That hasn't been true in my experience. I am not disagreeing that many MNC's do use MS AD, but not all do. What is true is that pretty much all MNC's have a large number of servers running the new MS Server OSs which are actually quite good. If that is possible, then i am sure, much of the intranet sites will be powered using Linux rather than Windows, as it would greatly reduce their Project and Account Cost for each manager. Creating an intranet which works across multiple operating systems is a solved problem. There are a number of solutions to this problem from Oracle, Novell, CA, IBM/Tivoli, Quest etc, however, the reason non-MS solutions haven't been as successful is because it requires these companies to buy solutions from a number of vendors and pay these vendors (a LOT) to integrate these solutions across a number of different products. In the case of MS, the solution is delivered along with the OS - example: Sharepoint services with the MS Server OSs.. similarly SQL Server + IIS + Sharepoint + OS bundles. That level of integration is simply not available on Linux or any other platform. Oracle tried some of this with Solaris + Oracle bundles (costs a bomb) and IBM with AIX + Lotus Notes + DB2 bundles (again costs a bomb), Sun with their bundles (Solaris + Oracle + Glassfish + Sun ONE directory services etc) but in all my years of running a company, I am yet to receive a single call from any company offering me to sell me these non-MS bundles - while I receive a sales call from MS partners very often. If you are looking for collaboration suites, there are products such as Lotus Notes (shudder!!) which work across OSes but it is a real PAIN to work with.. I hear that Sharepoint is rapidly approaching Lotus Notes' as yet unreachable levels of horrible mess. Talking about project management - there isn't a single Linux-based solution which compares to MS Project. Also, there is simply no alternative to MS Office on Linux - no, openoffice does NOT count. Also for stuff such as graphic design (photoshop) or engineering design (CAD/CAM), the Linux offerings pale in comparison to what is available on Windows. That is another reason why people prefer working on Windows in the enterprise. But if you look at enterprises where access to MS Office, MS Project, Autocad, Photoshop etc isn't needed for the staff, you will see a whole plethora of OSes being used - Macs, Solaris boxes, Linux the odd SGI box etc. Linux is very commonly used in simulations, defense establishments, movie studios, labs etc. There are few open source apache modules like mod_NTLM, mod_auth_kerb.. but there is hell lot of problem in implementing those.. But the administrator needs to set this up only once but they feel that they don't need to bother with that because MS already offers stuff with everything pre-configured. And as stated previously, the lack of products on Linux (office, project management software) of comparable quality will impede the deployment of linux in those enterprises where such products are required. In my view, this should be a best case for taking it up as research project by ME students, who really want to do programming at system level involving cryptography etc.. Infact i used to say this to those students who ask me about final year project.. Actually, the technology already exists. I would say that if these trainers were able to provide a single integrated linux-based solution for download using the best of breed products out there, it would help tremendously. On Linux as Desktop, we have to accept the reality that, how far linux has evolved through ubuntu, it still lack the finesse of windows, which inspite of its crashes, is ruling the roost.. what is that special thing that windows has as edge over linux.. I believe Linux is pretty solid and stable. I don't think that is what is causing any problems with its adoption. I think the problem is with the lack of apps and the integration of these apps as stated earlier. Is it possible for us to find it without locking ourseves to FOSS ideology.. in my view, more than ideology, the purpose is important.. and here our purpose is NOT to uphold FOSS, but to improve FOSS to match the microsoft's feature set.. many of the FOSS softwares exceed microsoft based products, but there are key areas where FOSS is really lacking.. Desktop is one such thing.. we need to understand the strengths and weakness of FOSS vs MS to give MS a tough fight Good point. Regards, Prem
Re: [Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 00:03 +0530, Yuvi Panda wrote: Most of my friends who try out Linux give up after it doesn't play *any* of the media they have. Your friends need VLC and they don't know it. You _must_ help them! -- Roshan George ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
Most of my friends who try out Linux give up after it doesn't play *any* of the media they have. Your friends need VLC and they don't know it. You _must_ help them! +1 , atleast initially you need to show them how they can get things to work. Satish -- http://tuxitter.blogspot.com ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
However, with introduction of sharepoint 2010, everyone is moving to .NET and windows based development.. In my company (which is a fastest growing MNC), most intranet sites are developed in .NET and recently, new sites are consolidated under sharepoint.. I used .net for 2 years during my diploma education, I created three projects on it, I worked visual studio 2003 and 2005 but what I can say that it is good when u want to create a small application, actually it is buggy and waste according to my opinion, where programmer will not be using there brain. If I want to create an collaboration application or an application server, should I use .net? I think, the answer is no...its the java or python which I should choose to create such application. I will continue this thread, sorry little busy now... Arun sir, I m 100% satisfy by ur comment in Gnunify during KVM trainging- These people has seen forest not tree. Regards Subhojit Ojha ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
Most of the people I know think Linux is very difficult for a layman to understand. They fear that after installing Linux they will not be able to do the normal tasks they do with Windows and thus they prefer paying money to Microsoft instead of even trying Linux. Click the below link to read more about this article from LinuxForums.org http://www.hungry-hackers.com/2010/05/why-are-you-scared-of-linux.html On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 9:03 PM, subhojit ojha subhojit.o...@gmail.comwrote: However, with introduction of sharepoint 2010, everyone is moving to .NET and windows based development.. In my company (which is a fastest growing MNC), most intranet sites are developed in .NET and recently, new sites are consolidated under sharepoint.. I used .net for 2 years during my diploma education, I created three projects on it, I worked visual studio 2003 and 2005 but what I can say that it is good when u want to create a small application, actually it is buggy and waste according to my opinion, where programmer will not be using there brain. If I want to create an collaboration application or an application server, should I use .net? I think, the answer is no...its the java or python which I should choose to create such application. I will continue this thread, sorry little busy now... Arun sir, I m 100% satisfy by ur comment in Gnunify during KVM trainging- These people has seen forest not tree. Regards Subhojit Ojha ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc -- राजकुमार follow me http://twitter.com/krisrajkumar ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 8:54 PM, Girish Venkatachalam girishvenkatacha...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that the GNOME desktop is quite idiot friendly. Windows users will only be slightly uncomfortable with it. Most of my friends who try out Linux give up after it doesn't play *any* of the media they have. Even after all this days open source continues to appeal only to the intelligentsia. And I don't see that changing. Linux the kernel will probably see *very* widespread use (eg. Android) but on a traditional desktop, I don't think it can move beyond the 'intelligentsia' -- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
I agree that the GNOME desktop is quite idiot friendly. Windows users will only be slightly uncomfortable with it. Most of my friends who try out Linux give up after it doesn't play *any* of the media they have. I believe that it depends upon the attitude of the people because during past one month my windows xp is corrupted,but I was using dual booted Windows and Ubuntu super os.And on that time my brother and his friends were using Ubuntu super os only but now even though after installing windows xp they prefer to work only in ubuntu and i asked them why they like ubuntu just told that they are comfortable with ubuntu because they can install even windows games [nfs,gta etc,.] in ubuntu and ubuntu super os comes with default support for all media types and also bundles with famous media players like VLC,Real Player etc.And too games and special graphical effects[like compiz,beryl,awn etc,.] which was amazed by most of my friends too.. And even student of 5th grade in delhi public school learn Linux and in Bangalore through ambedkar slum computing center the slum children [mostly they are low educated] learn Linux and using gimp for drawing art and optimizing their photography. On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 12:03 AM, Yuvi Panda yuvipa...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 8:54 PM, Girish Venkatachalam girishvenkatacha...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that the GNOME desktop is quite idiot friendly. Windows users will only be slightly uncomfortable with it. Most of my friends who try out Linux give up after it doesn't play *any* of the media they have. Even after all this days open source continues to appeal only to the intelligentsia. And I don't see that changing. Linux the kernel will probably see *very* widespread use (eg. Android) but on a traditional desktop, I don't think it can move beyond the 'intelligentsia' -- Yuvi Panda T http://yuvi.in/blog ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc -- राजकुमार follow me http://twitter.com/krisrajkumar ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
Actually at the desktop level, linux usage is very meagre.. but at the server level, its very popular and widely used.. However, with introduction of sharepoint 2010, everyone is moving to .NET and windows based development.. In my company (which is a fastest growing MNC), most intranet sites are developed in .NET and recently, new sites are consolidated under sharepoint.. I think, Microsoft will have a big push through Sharepoint, just like it had when it released windows GUI desktop.. Another thing is that Network integration is veyr powerful in Windows.. Most big corporates are moving on to Single Sign on, and Linux has been having major problems in integrating to windows network.. We run a corporate blogging site in linux, and its really a problem implementing single sign on.. Its really an ambiguity to predict where will Linux Move on, unless it sorts out desktop issues. Regards, Senthil On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:04 PM, rajkumar vbalakrishnasamy rajkumar.l...@gmail.com wrote: Hi ilugcies, I recently googled about Linux usage statistics all over the world and found some information on that but the information shows only 1% use of Linux globally in desktop market, is this wiki article is fake or real.And i also found in some websites that Linux market share is high and w3c's statistics is also wrong.So,please comment on this or we have to analyze the actual usage statistics and modify the wiki content.And also we can find some more ideas to bring awareness on foss. http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems http://www.seopher.com/articles/linux_usage_statistics__dell_holds_the_key_w3c_shows_decline -- राजकुमार follow me http://twitter.com/krisrajkumar ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 4:18 PM, senthilraja P technocr...@gmail.com wrote: Another thing is that Network integration is veyr powerful in Windows.. Huh? AFAIK, Windows 95 lifted the TCP/IP stack from *BSD. OK, let's accept it at face value; can Windows mount a NFS or for that matter any other global file system w/o any additional software/driver? Most big corporates are moving on to Single Sign on, and Linux has been having major problems in integrating to windows network.. You mean MS-ADS? SSO (LDAP + Kerberso) was there much before MS-ADS came out in Windows 2000. Windows NT domain controller on paper looks like NIS concepts. MS-ADS is LDAP + Kerberos plus their **proprietary** extensions to *open* standards which makes MS-ADS a non standard.To implement the proprietary extensions one has to sign a NDA with MS - which means any FOSS solution will not be able to implement them because of it's own licensing terms. Samba4 is making progress in implementing a clean room version of MS-ADS features but it is not yet ready for production use. We run a corporate blogging site in linux, and its really a problem implementing single sign on.. Please see above. Implement an open standard SSO and you should not have the problem you are talking about. At the end of the day it is the corporations prerogative to choose it's platforms but to blame FOSS for not playing well with MS-ADS Its really an ambiguity to predict where will Linux Move on, unless it sorts out desktop issues. Please name a few issues.IMO, for task workers (limited functionality Office, Browser) it is already there. I assure you that large Indian MNCs are actively looking at Linux desktop (thin clients) as an alternative for their aging desktop replacement. In desktop migration, I generally suggest to keep a few windows desktops for their power users (especially Excel) - typically they are less than 5% of their staff. My 10 paise. -- Arun Khan ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
This thread is very insightful and meaningful than what one would expect from the subject. I will add what I know which is not very much. On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Arun Khan knu...@gmail.com wrote: Another thing is that Network integration is veyr powerful in Windows.. Huh? AFAIK, Windows 95 lifted the TCP/IP stack from *BSD. OK, let's accept it at face value; can Windows mount a NFS or for that matter any other global file system w/o any additional software/driver? Good point. Network integration being powerful in Windows? You mean Windows shares? That is quite amazing given that it is incredibly noisy at the network level. Still its GUI is really intuitive and very useful and friendly end of the day. You can share anything and their discovery protocols work very well. I don't think UNIX NFS protocols ever attempted anything like automatic discovery. There used to be a protocol called SLP(Service Location Protocol) but I don't think it was adopted. I am talking about my Novell days. In fact Novell had an interest in it. You mean MS-ADS? SSO (LDAP + Kerberso) was there much before MS-ADS came out in Windows 2000. Windows NT domain controller on paper looks like NIS concepts. MS-ADS is LDAP + Kerberos plus their **proprietary** extensions to *open* standards which makes MS-ADS a non standard. To implement the proprietary extensions one has to sign a NDA with MS - which means any FOSS solution will not be able to implement them because of it's own licensing terms. Samba4 is making progress in implementing a clean room version of MS-ADS features but it is not yet ready for production use. Samba4? Yeah it is slowly and surely getting stable. In fact Samba is an incredibly well funded open source initiative. It is unfortunate it is GPL. As to single sign on I am sure LDAP existed for a very long time though a good implementation is lacking. SSO never took on in the UNIX for some reason. Even NIS does not seem very popular. People love Windows shares and Samba. We run a corporate blogging site in linux, and its really a problem implementing single sign on.. I agree that there are no single sign on solutions. Password syncing is a hard thing. At the end of the day it is the corporations prerogative to choose it's platforms but to blame FOSS for not playing well with MS-ADS Well blaming is one thing. But Linux has no mandate to interoperate with Windows. Its really an ambiguity to predict where will Linux Move on, unless it sorts out desktop issues. It is more or less a fact that Linux cannot capture the desktop market. But of late I find a lot of penetration as rightly pointed out. Thin client and cost savings. And of course the virus menace. Please name a few issues. IMO, for task workers (limited functionality Office, Browser) it is already there. I agree that the GNOME desktop is quite idiot friendly. Windows users will only be slightly uncomfortable with it. I assure you that large Indian MNCs are actively looking at Linux desktop (thin clients) as an alternative for their aging desktop replacement. In desktop migration, I generally suggest to keep a few windows desktops for their power users (especially Excel) - typically they are less than 5% of their staff. I don't hate Microsoft as some of their innovations are noteworthy and their ability to survive and sustain the market is itself quite creditable. I don't like any commercial thing be it M$ or Cisco. Even after all this days open source continues to appeal only to the intelligentsia. -Girish ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
On 05/27/2010 08:54 PM, Girish Venkatachalam wrote: Samba4? Yeah it is slowly and surely getting stable. In fact Samba is an incredibly well funded open source initiative. It is unfortunate it is GPL. How so? None of the Samba developers would be working on the project if it was not GPL. They were the earliest adopters of GPLv3 as well. If it was a permissive license, it would have definitely been forked with several proprietary variants. Rahul ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
Re: [Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
On Thursday 27 May 2010 21:03:18 Rahul Sundaram wrote: Samba4? Yeah it is slowly and surely getting stable. In fact Samba is an incredibly well funded open source initiative. It is unfortunate it is GPL. How so? None of the Samba developers would be working on the project if it was not GPL. They were the earliest adopters of GPLv3 as well. If it was a permissive license, it would have definitely been forked with several proprietary variants. please do not spread FUD. There is no harm if you want to use GPL - but to spread nonsense that 'if it was a permissive license it would have ...'. Like python, perl, php, postgresql, zope, django, etc etc etc. You just need to look at one of your own distros to find the plethora of non-GPL packages there. -- regards kg http://livejournal.com/lawgon ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
[Ilugc] Linux usage statistics
Hi ilugcies, I recently googled about Linux usage statistics all over the world and found some information on that but the information shows only 1% use of Linux globally in desktop market, is this wiki article is fake or real.And i also found in some websites that Linux market share is high and w3c's statistics is also wrong.So,please comment on this or we have to analyze the actual usage statistics and modify the wiki content.And also we can find some more ideas to bring awareness on foss. http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems http://www.seopher.com/articles/linux_usage_statistics__dell_holds_the_key_w3c_shows_decline -- राजकुमार follow me http://twitter.com/krisrajkumar ___ ILUGC Mailing List: http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc
