Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Christoph Hormann]

On Sunday 06 May 2018, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>
> I wonder, how did we in our pursuit of copyright purity came from "do
> not copy from google" to "do not even decide what not to map if there
> is a google tab in your browser"?
>
> It IS using GSV for making decisions. But not for taking any data.
> Google does not have copyright on your decisions based on images it
> shows. Thoughts are not copyrightable.
>
> [...]

The problem comes from systematically extracting data from non-free 
sources.  If you verify a certain individual fact by looking at Google 
Street View there is no legal problem with that.  But if you do it for 
a thousand fuel stations (or a thousand different mappers do it each 
for one fuel station) that is potentially systematic extraction of data 
from a non-free source Google might object to.

Regarding database rights there is no principal difference between 
extracting a simple yes/no fact and tracing a complex geometry.  Unless 
you are in scope below the threshold of extracting a substantial part 
(and case law is still fairly thin on what that is) you need to expect 
the database owner to have legal grounds to object to any such use.

Of course you can say you cannot determine from the data that simple 
yes/no decisions have been extracted from a certain data source so it 
would be impossible for Google to actually prove their data has been 
used.  Not sure if i would want to rely on that though.

And of course Google will most certainly not risk opening that can of 
worms anyway (there probably has never been a better example of someone 
sitting in a glass house than Google w.r.t. database rights) but that 
is not really a good basis of making such decisions either.

Long story short:  Any potentially systematic use of non-free sources 
without explicit permission should probably be avoided and integrating 
GSV as a verification option in a verification tool would bear a strong 
potential for systematic use.  If mappers individually occasionally 
consult GSV during their mapping work that is not something we as an 
open data project should support but that is ultimately between them, 
Google and their TOS and the Contributor terms and the obligation 
stated in there to not use any not allowed sources.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Ilya Zverev]

06.05.2018 11:04, Andy Townsend пишет:
As you know, the imports validator is no editor. The data is supplied 
by a third party along with a full permission to use the data. Any 
input in the validator only restricts which features and their 
attributes are NOT imported.


That's simply not true.  Let's think about the process for a second:

1) A user of your "validation" site sees an example navads entry. It's
chosen randomly for them; they will likely have no local knowledge.

2) They press the GSV button, see that it's present there, and then
click "Good" to "validate" it in your import.

How is this process _not_ using Google Street View to decide which items
are "good" to import?


I wonder, how did we in our pursuit of copyright purity came from "do 
not copy from google" to "do not even decide what not to map if there is 
a google tab in your browser"?


It IS using GSV for making decisions. But not for taking any data. 
Google does not have copyright on your decisions based on images it 
shows. Thoughts are not copyrightable.


A mapper does not make a decision solely based on google: in the 
validator, they also have four different imagery layer, OSM data and 
data provided by a third-party. GSV is just one of seven sources a 
validator consults to make decisions. You do not know, and it is 
impossible to detect, which one was the decisive one.


Then, one cannot make _any_ data visible on google's photos to be added 
to OSM. All the data is already there. As per Google's TOU cited by Glen:


"No Creating Content From Google Maps Content. Customer will not create 
content based on Google Maps Content, including tracing, digitizing, or 
creating other datasets based on Google Maps Content."


Data imported is not in any way based on google's. It is provided by a 
third-party and filtered by mappers based on several sources. Mappers do 
not trace, digitize or create anything in any other ways based on GSV 
photos. "Good" or "not" decisions cannot be copyrighted.


Could you please explain, why the DWG considers it a terms violation? 


The very first point of
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Contributor_Terms is "1. We
respect the intellectual property rights of others and we need to be
able to respond to any objections by intellectual property owners. " and
goes on to explain exactly what that means.

You're well aware of all this as you've been part of the community long
enough to understand it (you were even on the OSMF board in 2015/2016).
It looks like you're simply trying to "pull a fast one" here - adding
GSV validation to your site, hoping no one who realises that it's a
problem will notice.


I am not pulling anything. I tolerate the community's opinion on taking 
notes from GSV photos, like count of a building's levels: although I 
think it is okay, some do not, and I do not promote my point of view. 
But taking a look at GSV to check if a POI was there at some point of 
time, and using it to approve or reject a change — I cannot understand 
how is that infringing any copyright.


I respect property rights and I have always wished best for OSM, but the 
kind of blind religious submission here I cannot tolerate.


Ilya

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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Jo]

Giovanni,

The whole point of this discussion is that you SHOULDN'T be using Google
Streetview for validating such imports. If you can't go there yourself,
maybe add an OSM note. Although that doesn't really work very well either.
It takes months/years for such notes to get resolved.

You can use Mapillary or OpenStreetView.

Polyglot

2018-05-06 11:22 GMT+02:00 Cascafico Giovanni :

> That's fine. AFAIK italian fuel station dataset is very accurate and
> updated. I will use GSV just for "skipping" the sporadic ambiguous cases.
>
> 2018-05-06 0:59 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :
>
>>
>> > On 6. May 2018, at 00:08, Cascafico Giovanni 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Ie: to-be-imported dataset contains a fuel station which I can spot on
>> Bing, but looks dismantled in newer SV imagery; I decide to "skip" it. Have
>> I violated Google terms?
>>
>> as long as you decide not to act based on SV I don’t see an issue wrt
>> ToS, but comparing with any data archive like SV or aerial imagery is
>> always comparing with historic data, not with the actual situation on the
>> ground, which is what we are interested in for the decision to import or
>> not.
>>
>>
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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Cascafico Giovanni]

That's fine. AFAIK italian fuel station dataset is very accurate and
updated. I will use GSV just for "skipping" the sporadic ambiguous cases.

2018-05-06 0:59 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

>
> > On 6. May 2018, at 00:08, Cascafico Giovanni 
> wrote:
> >
> > Ie: to-be-imported dataset contains a fuel station which I can spot on
> Bing, but looks dismantled in newer SV imagery; I decide to "skip" it. Have
> I violated Google terms?
>
> as long as you decide not to act based on SV I don’t see an issue wrt ToS,
> but comparing with any data archive like SV or aerial imagery is always
> comparing with historic data, not with the actual situation on the ground,
> which is what we are interested in for the decision to import or not.
>
>
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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Andy Townsend]

On 06/05/2018 08:17, Ilya Zverev wrote:


I am well aware that none of you want to have any imports to OSM. 


That simply isn't true.  I've personally checked and added data as part 
of your "Shell" import.  The problems raised with that import and even 
more so with this one have been all about quality, not whether in the 
abstract data should be imported at all (see e.g. "Data for Iceland 
seems outdated. We are not willing to accept it" just that someone 
posted here just last night).




As you know, the imports validator is no editor. The data is supplied 
by a third party along with a full permission to use the data. Any 
input in the validator only restricts which features and their 
attributes are NOT imported.




That's simply not true.  Let's think about the process for a second:

1) A user of your "validation" site sees an example navads entry. It's 
chosen randomly for them; they will likely have no local knowledge.


2) They press the GSV button, see that it's present there, and then 
click "Good" to "validate" it in your import.


3) Repeat from (1) above.

How is this process _not_ using Google Street View to decide which items 
are "good" to import?



Could you please explain, why the DWG considers it a terms violation? 


The very first point of 
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Contributor_Terms is "1. We 
respect the intellectual property rights of others and we need to be 
able to respond to any objections by intellectual property owners. " and 
goes on to explain exactly what that means.


You're well aware of all this as you've been part of the community long 
enough to understand it (you were even on the OSMF board in 2015/2016).  
It looks like you're simply trying to "pull a fast one" here - adding 
GSV validation to your site, hoping no one who realises that it's a 
problem will notice.


Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Levente Juhász]

Of course I am no expert, nor part of the DWG but here are my 2 cents:

I think the ToS should be applied to the mapping process itself, not only
to the data product that is uploaded to OSM. So in this case even though
there are no derived products from GSV as in new POIs added to OSM or
changed geometries or tags, the process is still based on GSV. In other
words, if a decision wheter or not to import points is potentially based on
a data source that we can't legally use, the workflow is already tainted.
It should not matter whether the process results in new geometries and
physical tags derived from GSV imagery (that's a pretty clear case). When
using GSV on the validator site, you inevitably check POIs against the
imagery, and therefore even those POIs you keep are potentially kept based
on the fact "that they are visible on GSV". Even if you don't make any
other changes you decided to keep them based on a data source that can't be
used for that. This, in my book violates both OSM's and Google's data
policies. Therefore, I wouldn't use anything on OSM that's an outcome of a
tainted mapping process. In this tricky case, one of the outcomes is "not
mapping something on OSM".

I think this is what Andy meant. So it's really about not using GSV at all,
even if it's for deciding what NOT to put on OSM.

Cheers,
Levente

On Sun, May 6, 2018, 09:19 Ilya Zverev  wrote:

> Thank you DWG for tracking the state of the imports validator.
>
> I am well aware that none of you want to have any imports to OSM. Even
> when every point is manually checked against knowledge and photos. But
> this issue is about licensing, and I want you to elaborate on that.
>
> As you know, the imports validator is no editor. The data is supplied by
> a third party along with a full permission to use the data. Any input in
> the validator only restricts which features and their attributes are NOT
> imported.
>
> And here you, on behalf on the entire DWG, are saying you cannot take
> decisions to NOT map something in OSM if it's not on Google Street View.
> Could you please explain, why the DWG considers it a terms violation?
> Are there any other previously unknown restrictions we don't know about?
> Like, that we should map only things that are missing on google maps, or
> such?
>
> Ilya
>
> 05.05.2018 20:34, Andy Townsend пишет:
> > On 28/03/2018 21:17, Ilya Zverev wrote:
> >>
> >> Please take another look at the import.
> >
> > It has recently been brought to the DWG's attention that the North
> > American part of this import (at the very least)
> > http://audit.osmz.ru/project/navads_fuel_na is using Google Street View
> > as a source (see screenshot at
> > https://map.atownsend.org.uk/tmp/screens_20180504_01002.png ).
> >
> > Presumably this means that _none_ of this data can now be imported into
> OSM.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Andy Townsend, on behalf of OSM's Data Working Group.
> >
> >
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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Glen Barnes]

IANAL but the Google T’s are quite clear:

https://cloud.google.com/maps-platform/terms/

(b) No Creating Content From Google Maps Content. Customer will not create 
content based on Google Maps Content, including tracing, digitizing, or 
creating other datasets based on Google Maps Content.

Using Street View to check the position of the pin (and potentially move it) is 
using Google Maps Content to create another dataset. Checking an attribute to 
NOT import is also using Google Maps Content to create another dataset.

To be 100% safe we should never use *any* Google Maps content in *any* way. I’m 
pretty pro imports but I’m siding with the DWG on this one, there is just an 
unacceptable level of risk and even if you think just looking at SV isn’t 
"creating other datasets based on Google Maps Content” I’m pretty sure this 
hasn’t been tested in court and nobody wants to find out.

Cheers
Glen

> On 6/05/2018, at 7:17 PM, Ilya Zverev  wrote:
> 
> Thank you DWG for tracking the state of the imports validator.
> 
> I am well aware that none of you want to have any imports to OSM. Even when 
> every point is manually checked against knowledge and photos. But this issue 
> is about licensing, and I want you to elaborate on that.
> 
> As you know, the imports validator is no editor. The data is supplied by a 
> third party along with a full permission to use the data. Any input in the 
> validator only restricts which features and their attributes are NOT imported.
> 
> And here you, on behalf on the entire DWG, are saying you cannot take 
> decisions to NOT map something in OSM if it's not on Google Street View. 
> Could you please explain, why the DWG considers it a terms violation? Are 
> there any other previously unknown restrictions we don't know about? Like, 
> that we should map only things that are missing on google maps, or such?
> 
> Ilya
> 
> 05.05.2018 20:34, Andy Townsend пишет:
>> On 28/03/2018 21:17, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>>> 
>>> Please take another look at the import. 
>> It has recently been brought to the DWG's attention that the North
>> American part of this import (at the very least)
>> http://audit.osmz.ru/project/navads_fuel_na is using Google Street View
>> as a source (see screenshot at
>> https://map.atownsend.org.uk/tmp/screens_20180504_01002.png ).
>> Presumably this means that _none_ of this data can now be imported into OSM.
>> Best Regards,
>> Andy Townsend, on behalf of OSM's Data Working Group.
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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Ilya Zverev]

Thank you DWG for tracking the state of the imports validator.

I am well aware that none of you want to have any imports to OSM. Even 
when every point is manually checked against knowledge and photos. But 
this issue is about licensing, and I want you to elaborate on that.


As you know, the imports validator is no editor. The data is supplied by 
a third party along with a full permission to use the data. Any input in 
the validator only restricts which features and their attributes are NOT 
imported.


And here you, on behalf on the entire DWG, are saying you cannot take 
decisions to NOT map something in OSM if it's not on Google Street View. 
Could you please explain, why the DWG considers it a terms violation? 
Are there any other previously unknown restrictions we don't know about? 
Like, that we should map only things that are missing on google maps, or 
such?


Ilya

05.05.2018 20:34, Andy Townsend пишет:

On 28/03/2018 21:17, Ilya Zverev wrote:


Please take another look at the import. 


It has recently been brought to the DWG's attention that the North
American part of this import (at the very least)
http://audit.osmz.ru/project/navads_fuel_na is using Google Street View
as a source (see screenshot at
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/tmp/screens_20180504_01002.png ).

Presumably this means that _none_ of this data can now be imported into OSM.

Best Regards,

Andy Townsend, on behalf of OSM's Data Working Group.


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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 6. May 2018, at 00:08, Cascafico Giovanni  wrote:
> 
> Ie: to-be-imported dataset contains a fuel station which I can spot on Bing, 
> but looks dismantled in newer SV imagery; I decide to "skip" it. Have I 
> violated Google terms?


as long as you decide not to act based on SV I don’t see an issue wrt ToS, but 
comparing with any data archive like SV or aerial imagery is always comparing 
with historic data, not with the actual situation on the ground, which is what 
we are interested in for the decision to import or not.

cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Using streetview has been discussed recently on italian ML.
I brought to attention to the fact that SV information could be used for
*not* putting the node: is this a violation anyway?

Ie: to-be-imported dataset contains a fuel station which I can spot on
Bing, but looks dismantled in newer SV imagery; I decide to "skip" it. Have
I violated Google terms?

Il 5 mag 2018 7:36 PM, "Andy Townsend"  ha scritto:

> On 28/03/2018 21:17, Ilya Zverev wrote:
>
>>
>> Please take another look at the import.
>>
>
> It has recently been brought to the DWG's attention that the North
> American part of this import (at the very least)
> http://audit.osmz.ru/project/navads_fuel_na is using Google Street View
> as a source (see screenshot at https://map.atownsend.org.uk/t
> mp/screens_20180504_01002.png ).
>
> Presumably this means that _none_ of this data can now be imported into
> OSM.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy Townsend, on behalf of OSM's Data Working Group.
>
>
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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Jóhannes Birgir Jensson]

Data for Iceland seems outdated. We are not willing to accept it.


On 5.5.2018 19:02, Cascafico Giovanni wrote:

"GSV" has been just enabled in audit webgui. Few hours ago wasn't there.

2018-05-05 20:06 GMT+02:00 Andy Townsend >:


On 05/05/2018 18:56, Andy Mabbett wrote:

On 5 May 2018 at 18:34, Andy Townsend > wrote:

It has recently been brought to the DWG's attention that
the North American
part of this import (at the very least)
http://audit.osmz.ru/project/navads_fuel_na
 is using
Google Street View as a
source (see screenshot at
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/tmp/screens_20180504_01002.png

).

Or perhaps NAVADS (or an upstream data holder) has supplied
the same
open data to Google as is kindly being offered to OSM here?

No - users of the verification tool
http://audit.osmz.ru/project/navads_fuel_na
 are asked to verify
the data using GSV.




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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Cascafico Giovanni]

"GSV" has been just enabled in audit webgui. Few hours ago wasn't there.

2018-05-05 20:06 GMT+02:00 Andy Townsend :

> On 05/05/2018 18:56, Andy Mabbett wrote:
>
>> On 5 May 2018 at 18:34, Andy Townsend  wrote:
>>
>> It has recently been brought to the DWG's attention that the North
>>> American
>>> part of this import (at the very least)
>>> http://audit.osmz.ru/project/navads_fuel_na is using Google Street View
>>> as a
>>> source (see screenshot at
>>> https://map.atownsend.org.uk/tmp/screens_20180504_01002.png ).
>>>
>> Or perhaps NAVADS (or an upstream data holder) has supplied the same
>> open data to Google as is kindly being offered to OSM here?
>>
>> No - users of the verification tool http://audit.osmz.ru/project/n
> avads_fuel_na are asked to verify the data using GSV.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Andy Townsend]

On 05/05/2018 18:56, Andy Mabbett wrote:

On 5 May 2018 at 18:34, Andy Townsend  wrote:


It has recently been brought to the DWG's attention that the North American
part of this import (at the very least)
http://audit.osmz.ru/project/navads_fuel_na is using Google Street View as a
source (see screenshot at
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/tmp/screens_20180504_01002.png ).

Or perhaps NAVADS (or an upstream data holder) has supplied the same
open data to Google as is kindly being offered to OSM here?

No - users of the verification tool 
http://audit.osmz.ru/project/navads_fuel_na are asked to verify the data 
using GSV.




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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Andy Mabbett]

On 5 May 2018 at 18:34, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> It has recently been brought to the DWG's attention that the North American
> part of this import (at the very least)
> http://audit.osmz.ru/project/navads_fuel_na is using Google Street View as a
> source (see screenshot at
> https://map.atownsend.org.uk/tmp/screens_20180504_01002.png ).

Or perhaps NAVADS (or an upstream data holder) has supplied the same
open data to Google as is kindly being offered to OSM here?

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Andy Townsend]

On 28/03/2018 21:17, Ilya Zverev wrote:


Please take another look at the import. 


It has recently been brought to the DWG's attention that the North 
American part of this import (at the very least) 
http://audit.osmz.ru/project/navads_fuel_na is using Google Street View 
as a source (see screenshot at 
https://map.atownsend.org.uk/tmp/screens_20180504_01002.png ).


Presumably this means that _none_ of this data can now be imported into OSM.

Best Regards,

Andy Townsend, on behalf of OSM's Data Working Group.


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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Joachim Kast]

Hello Ilya,

thanks for the validation tool and the statistics you published at [1].
The Community has looked at 6% of petrol stations and found that the
failure rate is almost 15%. For professional data, I would expect a
value of significantly less than one percent. It is therefore
understandable that the German and French communities refuse to import
in this form.

This value unfortunately confirms the experience we have had in the past
in Germany with some undiscussed imports from SEO companies, including
Navads. These imports have therefore all been completely reset.

Two years ago, there was a big discussion [2] with the Senior Social Geo
Specialist from Navads. Navads realized that the quality of their data
did not meet the requirements of our project. In the following years
Navads probably wanted to commission some companies from the OSM
environment, but none of them wanted to put their good reputation in the
community at risk.

Now you have taken up this challenge, but your statistics prove that the
data supplied by Navads still show considerable deficiencies. It cannot
be the community's job to check and correct all this on a voluntary
basis in their free time.

According to [3], Navads supplied 240 thousand additional POIs in
addition to the petrol stations, i.e. four times theAnumber of petrol
stations. On the aerial photo, petrol stations are still relatively easy
to recognize, but what awaits us there above all: in what quality?

Before we discuss supermarkets, offices, craftsmen, etc. bit by bit: Can
you make the raw data of xyz generally available?

Best regards

Joachim


[1] http://audit.osmz.ru/project/navads_fuel
[2] https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=53345
[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Navads_Imports

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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Michael Reichert]

Hi Ilya,

Am 28.03.2018 um 22:17 schrieb Ilya Zverev:
> Thanks for you comments on the last iteration. I have also seen local
> discussions in french and german communities, with strong voices towards
> rejecting the import in their countries. So I ask you to consider the
> next iteration.

The German community discussed your import on the Talk-de mailing list
and the German forum.
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2018-March/114737.html
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=61809

German POI data is not complete and will never be complete. We welcome
help to improve the POI data in Germany. However, the quality of data to
be imported has to be much better than dataset being provided. That's
why almost all users who participated in discussions on the Talk-de
mailing list and the German OSM Forum oppose this import.

Providing a list or a diff between the Navads dataset and OSM is
welcomed and will help us to improve our work without increasing the
burden for the manager of the import to invest more work into fixing all
the errors of the data and the software.

The details reported by various users:

Wrong entries
=
The import wants to add test data to OSM:
http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS265_376650
addr:postcode=10178 [that's in Berlin]
amenity=fuel
brand=Blablabla
phone=+49 6058 96709 [dialling code for the areas around Frankfurt/Main
and Mannheim]
ref:navads=NVDS265_376650
reported by kartonage at
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691848#p691848

The import wants to add gas stations at locations where only the offices
of companies are located (Sponholzstraße 31, 12159 Berlin). This seems
to be a residential building.
http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS265_101811
addr:postcod=12159
amenity=fuel
brand=H.-G. Meinecke
opening_hours=Mo-Fr 08:00-17:00
phone=+49 30 8598630
ref:navads=NVDS265_101811
reported by kartonage at
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691848#p691848

The import wants to add fuel storage tank facilities as gas stations.
http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS265_520220 (Adolf ROTH GmbH
& Co. KG in Aschaffenburg Harbour)
reported by Maskulinum at
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691875#p691875

The import wants to add a restaurant as a gas station. User Maskulinum
assumes that there might be a gas station about 100 metres away.
http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS265_520496 (ROTH Energie at
Industriestraße 4, Stockstadt am Main)
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691875#p691875

User !i! writes that the import wants to add three new gas stations in
Rostock although there is not any gas station at that location (and has
never been there).
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=692539#p692539

Wrong location for new gas stations
===
If the import adds a new gas station, it usually sets the node to the
location of the shop. If the gas station belongs to a large supermarket
(e.g. Intermarché in France
http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS346_54a1ba8f9826bf65d6a32489),
the node will be set into the middle of the supermarket!
reported by DD1GJ at
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691912#p691912

Postal codes

Don't add addr:postcode=* if that is the only address tag to be added.
[Postal codes are mapped as boundary relations in Germany and
addr:postcode=* is *sometimes* used in addition.]
reported by Basstoelpel at
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691681#p691681 and by
Prince Kassad at
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691683#p691683

Opening hours
=
The import deletes PH values from opening_hours=*.
reported by kreuzschnabel at
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691688#p691688 and by
Yokr at
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691813#p691813

The opening hours to be imported seem to be wrong in more than one case.
User Prince Kassad writes that he mapped the opening hours of the
following station recently and he does not believe that the opening
hours have changed again: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1784969657
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691734#p691734

Opening hours of the import and the Aral website are different:
http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS114_20002600DE1
reported by aixbrick at
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691757#p691757

The import sets opening_hours=24/7 for many Avia stations but the Avia
website claims they are not open 24/7.
reported by Harald Hartmann at
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691832#p691832

Other users confirm that the data to be imported does not match the reality.
reported by seichter at
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=691860#p691860 (no
examples given)

Other examples:
http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/navads_fuel/NVDS126_2181 (way 124656455)
reported by Maskulinum at

Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Stéphane Péneau]

And now, my personal point of view:

If you can use your conflation tool with a larger area to remove most of 
the duplicate fuel_station, I think it could be interested to have a 
separate layer with only these nodes which we could manually review 
before the import.


Stéphane



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Re: [Imports] NavAds fuel stations import, take 3

[Pierre Béland]

Hi Ilya,
I did expressed the opinion on this list that Imports or QA projects should be 
split in smaller territories to let the communities monitor these changes. 
Following discussions on the  France and Germany since lists you have split the 
imports for these areas. I dont think that this is enough to let the various 
communities monitor this import. Is there any way to extract fo a country or 
region in large countries ?

Plus, note that Quebec / Canada is distinct from North America since french 
spoken province. There are 22,118 stations for North-America.
 
Pierre 
 

Le mercredi 28 mars 2018 16 h 18 min 22 s HAE, Ilya Zverev 
 a écrit :  
 
 Hi folks,

Thanks for you comments on the last iteration. I have also seen local 
discussions in french and german communities, with strong voices towards 
rejecting the import in their countries. So I ask you to consider the 
next iteration.

I have split the import in five parts, you can see them on the 
validation website: http://audit.osmz.ru/

Following the issue of wrong opening_hours, now the value of this tag 
won't overwrite the value already present in OSM.

Also, validation is now enabled, and when a marker is green, you can 
adjust a node position to better match the imagery.

Please take another look at the import.

Thanks,
Ilya

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