Re: [jug-discussion] OT -- SaveXP.com
To me, 6 seems kind of blah. 7 looks like it will be interesting. Art Gramlich Chief Application Architect HealthTrio, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] On May 9, 2008, at 10:53 AM, Warner Onstine wrote: 6 is available now (and has been for the past few months as a beta). I really don't understand what the burning desire is to upgrade immediately. So many libraries don't work with the latest for months as the developers scramble to upgrade stuff. And honestly there isn't enough in the new 6 to get me to upgrade right now, 5 has just recently stabilized as the one to code to, why should I worry about 6 (or 7 for that matter). -warner On May 9, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Steven Elliott wrote: On 5/9/08 10:24, Drew Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Welcome to the side of the angels, Rick. Glad to have you! - Drew Yes, unless you need to work in Java. My next purchase will be something to run Unbuntu on so I can update to Java 6 (and 7 this decade...). Steven - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Warner Onstine - Programmer/Author New book on Tapestry 4! Tapestry 101 available at http://sourcebeat.com/books/ tapestrylive.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://warneronstine.com/blog - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] next language to learn?
Yup. That's it. On Jun 19, 2007, at 10:08 AM, Chad Woolley wrote: On 6/19/07, Art Gramlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Erlang - You should at least work through the tutorial for it (and if you haven't seen it watch the video where they do live updates to the system). I think you mean this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5830318882717959520 It's hilarious - like programming meets Monty Python. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [jug-discussion] next language to learn?
Also, because of the message passing and functional nature, you don't have to worry about locking resources between the processes (threads). Makes a whole class of issues go away (and introduces a few other ones). On Jun 19, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Chad Woolley wrote: Since processors will be multiplying instead of speeding up in the future, I think erlang or something similar has got a lot of potential. Having the language handle multithreading for you is huge, given how hard it is in other languages. On 6/19/07, Thomas Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 10:08 AM 6/19/2007, you wrote: On 6/19/07, Art Gramlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Erlang - You should at least work through the tutorial for it (and if you haven't seen it watch the video where they do live updates to the system). I think you mean this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5830318882717959520 It's hilarious - like programming meets Monty Python. Oh, my gawd!this has got to be a deliberate jokeit couldn't be this bad by accidentcould it? The production values are atrocious; the dialog is horrible; everyone is speaking in slow motion, stuttering, screwing up their lines; but, worst of all, you learn next-to-nothing about Erlang! It's not a collision with Monty Pythonit's a collision with those educational filmstripes from the 50's. -t - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [jug-discussion] build tools...
Where's Hatcher to plug ant? :-) For us, ant has worked well and pretty much stayed out of the way (like a build tool should). Additionally, because of the widespread use, almost every tool has an ant task (e.g. sablecc). It looks like there are several scripting tasks now available for the rare cases where normal usage doesn't work. On Dec 25, 2006, at 11:56 PM, Thomas Hicks wrote: I just ran across an innocative, upcoming tool for Ant that might make your life a great deal easier. It's called Virtual Ant: http://www.placidsystems.com/virtualant/Default.aspx regards, -tom At 09:54 PM 12/23/2006, you wrote: Without starting a flame-war... ;) I'm about to embark on updating a very brittle build process. It's currently based on a combination of relying on the IDE + a bit of ant In all honesty, I know make better than I know any other build tool, but I'd rather not do this build in make. So, I'm looking for some input into what build tool(s) you use, and why? Thanks! Robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [jug-discussion] open laslo
Actually, I'd say sun is endoring jruby more since they have hired the two main developers to work on it. Kinda funny since Groovy seems like a better java integration choice. Now if they would just fix the major bugs and get a 1.0 out. On Nov 9, 2006, at 8:38 PM, Warner Onstine wrote: On Nov 9, 2006, at 8:29 PM, Chad Woolley wrote: Why groovy vs. Jruby, other than the fact that Sun is endorsing Groovy? We all know that Sun only endorses usable and technically viable solutions (like J2EE). Not necessarily groovy vs. anything, I want to learn alot of different techs and I have a specific project in mind for groovy ;-). -warner OpenLazlo looks pretty cool, especially if it compiles to DHTML. Haven't used it myself. -- Chad On 11/9/06, Warner Onstine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would very much like to, but that project hasn't bubbled up to the top yet, next on my list is groovy ;-). -warner On Nov 9, 2006, at 11:16 AM, Randolph Kahle wrote: Is anyone using or thinking about using open laslo? -- Randy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jug.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [jug-discussion] OT: Google and Yahoo
Sorry Mr. Zeidner, informal developer-related commentary is indeed inappropriate content for a USERS GROUP. In fact, I have seen on this list that at certain JUG meetings, discussion on non-Java technologies have been discussed. Everyone needs to get back to working on corporate project #101 immediately. And make sure it's written in Java(tm). I'll go back to lurking again. Art On Sep 21, 2006, at 10:36 AM, josh zeidner wrote: I guess its some kind of coincidence that I am noticing a high degree of informal commentary on UG lists lately. You do realize that this kind of thing reflects badly on customer and employer appeal? For instance, I could say some kind of offhand comment like they'll give a greencard to just about any slob who scraped up enough money to bribe the DOL!. Obviously, some may be deeply offended by such a statement. Although it is certainly the prerogative of a group to govern themselves the way they see fit, in the case of a JUG, there is the issue of the exploitation of the legitimacy that the JUG term provides. I'm wondering if there are any regulations that deal with this issue in the JCP or whether the JUG term is an entirely public-domain all-purpose term that can be utilized by any party. I would assume that if there are no such regulations then either 1) JUGs will likely degrade in relevance( a process already in effect ), 2) such regulations will be imposed in the future. The problems of such exploitation extend to all members of a local area. Thanks, Josh Zeidner --- Nick Lesiecki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To Tim and Jon: I nearly fell out of my freaking chair at White and Nerdy. To the rest of you: If you haven't seen it, it's a must see. Back to Tim: Even Google hasn't solved the problem of how to migrate all of your friends and relatives from your old address. Besides, this way I can spy on their new UI! FWIW: I couldn't survive without GMail for my work account. Only Gmail can handle the volume of internal mail I get. Back to the group: Oh, and anyone who's in the area for Hackday's welcome to come and visit the 'plex. Dunno what Yahoo has planned for HackDay, but I guarantee our cafe food is better on the average Tuesday than it is at Yahoo's special event. That's right. I went there. Nick On Sep 19, 2006, at 2:03 PM, Tim Colson ((tcolson)) wrote: Lol... am I the only one laughing that Nick sent this from his yahoo.com email? Hojillion -- number of hos you can fit in your car ... hmm, in my two-seater that'd only be one and she'd have to sit on the wife's lap...which would most likely end badly. grin It's too bad GOOG doesn't seem to have a remote worker option... or FYI... I'll be at the Yahoo Open Hack Day (hackday.org) in the Bay Area next weekend. Anybody else going to be there? Nick? Or are you too white and nerdy? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7939447080926152362q=white +and+ nerdy -Timo -Original Message- From: Nick Lesiecki [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 9:23 AM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] OT: Fwd: Potentially interesting Seattle Times story I think this is an appropriate time to mention that Google has an office in Phoenix, and if you want to be part of a team that wins a hojillion* dollar award, you should send me your resume. I've already helped one of the Tucson JUG'ers find employ at Google, and I hope to shepherd a few more into our Island of Snacks in Tempe. Cheers, Nick * Hojillion: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hojillion P.S. This is my one chance for famous name dropping: I was in a meeting w/ Guido Van Rossum yesterday. WOot! P.P.S. Despite the tone of this email, I am serious. Send me your resume. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[jug-discussion] Strongtalk
Did anyone else see that Sun did a new BSD style license release of all of Strongtalk earlier in the month? It's windows only right now and really not complete (development stopped when Sun bought the team to do HotSpot). In case anyone is interested, it's at http://strongtalk.org/ and discussion for now is on a yahoo group (linked from the website). Interesting stuff. Art - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] OT: Google and Yahoo
Thanks for a sane reply. On Sep 21, 2006, at 11:41 AM, Michael Oliver wrote: Ok since any sort of frivolity is frowned upon by some, let's get serious. Call it govern themselves or sensorship or standards or regulations, etc. but the problem with that is who decides? If a discussion thread starts off on AJAX relative to Java and someone interjects some .NET code examples, is that off topic enough? Who decides? If someone is talking Apple Battery recalls and speaks of their Dell or an Airport travel problem, is that off topic or not Java enough to warrant expulsion? Who decides? If someone is just cranky and finds too much idle chatter clogging up their inbox and uses an obviously offensive sentence to illustrate a point, is that enough to sensor it? Who decides? If someone calls someone else a jackass but managed to veil it somewhat, is that enough? Who decides? Every list I am on has had some obnoxious person try to hijack the list for their own agenda and most times they get flamed enough to get pissed off and leave without having to bar them, which doesn't work BTW because a new email address is 30 seconds away. I think Warner is right on target, and I don't know of any degrading user that has needed to be banned or even heavily chastized, so if someone, including me gets too off topic to the point of degrading the list, somebody please just say so. Michael Oliver CTO Alarius Systems LLC 6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096 Las Vegas, NV 89156 Phone:(702)866-9034 Cell:(518)378-6154 Fax:(702)974-0341 -Original Message- From: josh zeidner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:37 AM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] OT: Google and Yahoo I guess its some kind of coincidence that I am noticing a high degree of informal commentary on UG lists lately. You do realize that this kind of thing reflects badly on customer and employer appeal? For instance, I could say some kind of offhand comment like they'll give a greencard to just about any slob who scraped up enough money to bribe the DOL!. Obviously, some may be deeply offended by such a statement. Although it is certainly the prerogative of a group to govern themselves the way they see fit, in the case of a JUG, there is the issue of the exploitation of the legitimacy that the JUG term provides. I'm wondering if there are any regulations that deal with this issue in the JCP or whether the JUG term is an entirely public-domain all-purpose term that can be utilized by any party. I would assume that if there are no such regulations then either 1) JUGs will likely degrade in relevance( a process already in effect ), 2) such regulations will be imposed in the future. The problems of such exploitation extend to all members of a local area. Thanks, Josh Zeidner --- Nick Lesiecki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To Tim and Jon: I nearly fell out of my freaking chair at White and Nerdy. To the rest of you: If you haven't seen it, it's a must see. Back to Tim: Even Google hasn't solved the problem of how to migrate all of your friends and relatives from your old address. Besides, this way I can spy on their new UI! FWIW: I couldn't survive without GMail for my work account. Only Gmail can handle the volume of internal mail I get. Back to the group: Oh, and anyone who's in the area for Hackday's welcome to come and visit the 'plex. Dunno what Yahoo has planned for HackDay, but I guarantee our cafe food is better on the average Tuesday than it is at Yahoo's special event. That's right. I went there. Nick On Sep 19, 2006, at 2:03 PM, Tim Colson ((tcolson)) wrote: Lol... am I the only one laughing that Nick sent this from his yahoo.com email? Hojillion -- number of hos you can fit in your car ... hmm, in my two-seater that'd only be one and she'd have to sit on the wife's lap...which would most likely end badly. grin It's too bad GOOG doesn't seem to have a remote worker option... or FYI... I'll be at the Yahoo Open Hack Day (hackday.org) in the Bay Area next weekend. Anybody else going to be there? Nick? Or are you too white and nerdy? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7939447080926152362q=white +and+ nerdy -Timo -Original Message- From: Nick Lesiecki [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 9:23 AM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] OT: Fwd: Potentially interesting Seattle Times story I think this is an appropriate time to mention that Google has an office in Phoenix, and if you want to be part of a team that wins a hojillion* dollar award, you should send me your resume. I've already helped one of the Tucson JUG'ers find employ at Google, and I hope to shepherd a few more into our Island of Snacks in Tempe. Cheers, Nick * Hojillion: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hojillion P.S. This is my one chance for
Re: [jug-discussion] OT: Google and Yahoo
We're calling it Society 3.0 now. On Sep 21, 2006, at 1:19 PM, josh zeidner wrote: --- Michael Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok since any sort of frivolity is frowned upon by some, let's get serious. Call it govern themselves or sensorship or standards or regulations, etc. but the problem with that is who decides? If a discussion thread starts off on AJAX relative to Java and someone interjects some .NET code examples, is that off topic enough? Who decides? I might be completely off base here, but would THE LEADER OF THE GROUP DECIDE? If been running into more than one situation lately where the leaders of tech groups are playing 'the wizard behind the curtain' with the public. The leader decides what is valid and what is not. If anyone says something akin to 'this is Society 2.0' they are going on the idiot list. I am absolutely fed up with this drippy anarcho sophistry that has taken center stage in technology politics in the past few years. -jmz __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Tim, just curious, who 'owns' a thread?
Is this a troll? On Sep 21, 2006, at 1:32 PM, josh zeidner wrote: --- Tim Colson (tcolson) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Josh -- if you are sincere about starting a discussion on the topic of JCP and JUG Goverance, then by all means walk your own talk and start a new thread with a relevant subject line. Tim, just curious, who 'owns' a thread? -jmz __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Tim, just curious, who 'owns' a thread?
Hitler. Can it please stop now. On Sep 21, 2006, at 2:13 PM, josh zeidner wrote: Great, all this discussion needs is a reference to Hitler and my life will be complete. Good times people, time to get some work done. jmz --- Art Gramlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this a troll? On Sep 21, 2006, at 1:32 PM, josh zeidner wrote: --- Tim Colson (tcolson) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Josh -- if you are sincere about starting a discussion on the topic of JCP and JUG Goverance, then by all means walk your own talk and start a new thread with a relevant subject line. Tim, just curious, who 'owns' a thread? -jmz __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] Mac check
You know I'm an updater (well will be once I get more money saved again). Right now I've got the dual G5 and a core duo imac. I did get rid of the G4 800 since it really was getting a little too slow for my use. In my experience the intels hold up to or beat the ppc machines (my imac seems just as fast as the g5 and cost a lot less). I'd say if it does what you want no need to upgrade, but with the powerbook I bet if you tried the macbook (not a bad price) or macbook pro (a little much for me) you would find it's no contest. If I were you I would wait a while for the core 2 update though. That will probably be my next mac. (plus you can run parallels and dual boot for games). As for experience, I wouldn't trade my Macs for anything right now (other than a faster Mac). On Sep 20, 2006, at 2:31 PM, Jon Thomas wrote: Hey I know a bunch of us have Macs that are becoming quite advanced in years (mine is now over 2 years old). I have recently found that I cannot justify getting the slick new Core Duo MacBookPro because my powerbook has no obvious deficiencies. I have aPBook G4 1.5 with 1 gb of ram and it has done everything I have ever asked it to extremely well (from JBoss, to a Solaris port of BEA, to every version of Eclipse, to Dreamweaver, to World of Warcraft). The same goes for my wife's iBook 1.25 (1.25 GB ram) which in some ways is more dependable than my powerbook. I'm wondering (Nick, Art, Warner, Rick, et al.) if others on the list are having similar or very different experiences with their post- adolescent (in relative terms) Apples. Thanks, Jt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] MS Access / Filemaker like front-end for MySQL/Oracle?
thought they were using derby now and not hsqldb? On Jul 28, 2006, at 7:18 AM, Robert Zeigler wrote: Jumping into this conversation. a little late, but... :) I'm not sure how much detail, etc. you need, but open office v2 includes Openoffice Base, which is an MS Access-ish program. I haven't played with it much. By default, it uses hsqldb to create databases, but, like access, you can connect to pretty much any db (mysql and oracle, as well). It'll let you create forms, reports, queries, etc. Again, I haven't used it much so I can't really vouch for quality or ease of use, but it might be worth checking into. Robert Jon Thomas wrote: on the free front, Aqua Data Studio is really really good, but I don't think its a graphical IDE like Access. On Jul 27, 2006, at 5:17 PM, Tim Colson ((tcolson)) wrote: MS Access will allow you to attach to any ODBC datasource including Oracle and do some really fun stuff. Yep, that is definitely an option worth consideration. I seem to recall having pain when I did this in the past because MS Access frankly wasn't built to play nice (imho) with anything besides JET and SQL Server. ;-) Toad is the other product I always think of when talking about Oracle made easy. I've got Toad, good stuff...but I'd categorize that as a tool for DBA/Developers...not so much for end users. You won't mind me replying to your non-java question, because (even though I was born in Tucson) I live in Scottsdale. Guess that makes me not really a qualified TJUG member. ;) lol... I'm pleased you didn't just throw the email into /dev/null. grin Timo - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [jug-discussion] os x users/programmers in tucson?
In personal development, I've been playing around quite a bit with Python and Ruby. Cocoa dev with these is pretty cool too, since you don't have to do the relase, retain, autorelease dance. :-) On Jun 16, 2005, at 2:12 PM, Warner Onstine wrote: Sorry for sending to the JUG list, but I hope that someone has some connections in this area. I'm hoping that there are some remnants of Running Start that actually started a group of Cocoa developers (or maybe the U?). Also curious in Python/Ruby/Rails developers, any out there? Thanks guys. -warner - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Art Gramlich Lead Technologist HealthTrio, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] SWT ... the scoop?
-Original Message- From: Matt Sponer [mailto:matt.sponer;healthtrio.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 4:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [jug-discussion] SWT ... the scoop? Whoa, awesome. Thanks for posting that. I've been curious for a long time why Swing is so unusable, and why IBM doesn't show off SWT more. It's great to hear more of the story. Sun's Java Platform Performance book talks a little about Swing's performance issues. The author was on the team that tried to improve the performance, and he seems to think the root cause of the slowness is an overly abstracted (amateurish) class hierachy. Among other things, this results in masses of temporary objects that are churned by the Swing API, something like a dozen temporary objects are created for each cell of a JTable on every repaint. Don't you guys think that if it weren't for the Swing mess, Java would be the new Visual Basic, and C#/.NET would be pure hype that does nothing new? In retrospect, I think the Microsoft Java Extensions were a good idea: you could write pretty UI's in Java. Instead of admitting that there was a real need for this, Sun went to court and never offered something competitive. Now two or three years later C# and .NET appear, looking surprisingly like Java with Microsoft Extensions, and this hole is filled. I'm glad, I hate MFC and VB, and like being able to write Windows applications in a pretty garbage collected language that has a new and thoughtful API. But I wish it could be Java instead, so I could work on an iMac and not feel like a sellout to the man. -Original Message- From: Simon Ritchie [mailto:simon.ritchie;amo.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 8:03 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [jug-discussion] SWT ... the scoop? In anticipation of the Tuesday presentation on SWT, here's a message to a mailing list posted by Alan Williamson, the editor of Java Developers Journal. The message he quotes is from a source within IBM. It's an interesting look at the inside politics of Swing and SWT. Simon. Subject: [ST-J] SWT ... the scoop? Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 10:31:25 - From: Alan Williamson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Okay here you go ... read ... digest ... re-read ... and do more digesting ... ;-) Thanks for getting back to me. I'd love to give you the low down on Swing and SWT, as long as you keep me as your undisclosed source close to IBM. To see why everything is so messed up you need to go back a few years to the world when just AWT existed. Sun had built a basic set of portable control classes that mapped to native widgets on the different operating systems, and the next obvious step was to continue this model beyond its initial set of CUA 92 components ( text, button, etc... ) and add stuff like a table, a tree, a notebook, a slider, etc... While AWT was buggy beyond belief this was just poor code that needed fixing by Sun's coders. The developers at Sun like Graham and Otto used to publicly blame their bugs on operating system differences like focus order is different between windows and OS/2 or the behavior of Ctrl-X is different between ... and other lame excuses to take the heat off the fact that the real problem was that Sun released the code too early. Then Amy Fowler appeared at Sun. Without being sexist, Amy is a very pretty intelligent girl, and most geeky developers just go to putty in her hands. Amy came from a Smalltalk company called Objectshare where she looked after the UI class library there. The history of Smalltalk is a sad one if you apply it to Java, because once upon a time there were 3 big Smalltalk companies - IBM, Parc-Place and Digitalk. All 3 had equal market share in early 90s and life was good. Parc Place used emulated widgets ( i.e. a Swing design ) while IBM and Digitalk used native widgets. IBM overtook the others who then merged to form, imaginatively, Parc-Place Digitalk. A huge battle enused in which they tried to merge their products in a project called Jigsaw which failed due to politics ( the developers actually got it working ) because the native versus emulated crowd fought to the bitter death. Amy won a moral victory, however at IBM we just got all of their accounts because the two companies did nothing for an entire year except quarrel. When the dust settled the share price of PPD ( which was now called Objectshare for the same reason that Windscale was renamed to Sellafield - in the hope that everyone forgets the disaster that occured there ) went from 60 bucks to under 1 dollar a share. They were pulled form NASDAQ because of incorrect reportings of earnings and the lights went out. Sun were just up the road from PDD so the teccies all sent their CVs there. Amy was hired, and because she promised to solve all of the widget problems by doing a lightweight solution,
RE: [jug-discussion] Help needed with trivial Java - VB6 and/or VB.NET rewrite
I'd do a c# version :)
-Original Message-
From: William H. Mitchell [mailto:whm;mse.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:41 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [jug-discussion] Help needed with trivial Java - VB6 and/or VB.NET
rewrite
I'm teaching a class on object-oriented analysis and design next week and I
just learned in the last couple of days that many of the attendees will be
most conversant in Visual Basic 6.0.
I'm looking for somebody to rewrite a couple of small Java examples in VB6
and/or VB.NET, and maybe answer some questions, too. I can pay about $50
for the rewrites (150+/- lines of Java, some blank/trivial) and maybe
50c/minute for questions on the phone (DOE). It would need to be done by
the first thing Saturday morning (11/9).
If you're interested you can reach me via mail or at 577-6431.
Here's the interview: Convert this Java code to VB6 or VB.NET:
class Counter {
public Counter(String name) {
_count = 0;
_name = name;
}
public void bump() {
_count = _count + 1;
}
public void print() {
System.out.println(_name + 's count is + _count);
}
public int getCount() {
return _count;
}
private int _count;
private String _name;
}
-
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RE: [jug-discussion] J2EE vs. .Net: Lies, Damn Lies and Benchmarks
Actually, my own testing shows that for many, many things they are right about equal on the same machine (.net usually having a slight prerformance advantage). Any decision should probably come down to other issues. -Original Message- From: Rick Hightower [mailto:rhightower;learningpatterns.com] Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 12:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [jug-discussion] J2EE vs. .Net: Lies, Damn Lies and Benchmarks Rikard Oberg states: Well, how does one conclude a review like this? What is clear is that not only has the benchmark been conducted with seriously flawed code, but TMC has also on a number of points lied about the contents of said code and how it is supposed to perform. This is of course bad, for a multitude of players. One group of people who may want to consider it for more than five minutes however are those who are currently TMC customers. If lies such as what is contained in this report is possible, how could you possibly trust them to train your developers and architects? If reality can be so seriously twisted in a TMC certified report, what will the quality of their training then be like? You may want to think twice about your options in this regard. Several independent sources have now confirmed that The Middleware Company was indeed paid by Microsoft to conduct this report. http://dreambean.com/petstore.html TMC used BMP. They did not cahce things like the MS version did. The benchmark is flawed. Really, really flawed. They used an older version of BMP yet used the latest beta version of .Net. Read the report by Rikard. Even so... the results are close. It's no surprise to us or our engineers that Windows on Intel is faster: it's their home ground. The first Pet Store comparison, that was widely repudiated, showed a 10x advantage. This one shows a 2x and they've got home field advantage. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/27833.html If someone paid us to do the same test with Resin EE or JBoss, we could blow the .Net solution out of the water for a fraction of the cost. Rick Hightower Chief Technology Officer Learning Patterns Corp. http://learningpatterns.com Phone: 520.290.6855 Fax: 520.290.4179 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] jdk 1.4 on OS X
Thanks Warner! -Original Message- From: Warner Onstine [mailto:warner;warneronstine.com] Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 9:29 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [jug-discussion] jdk 1.4 on OS X For those of you who have been waiting to get into OS X due to the JDK issue, it is now available via the Apple Developer Connection (free registration and download). developer.apple.com -warner +warner onstine+ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] Mac question
The think with macs is that just after you buy one they will release something better :-). As long as the one you get works for what you need, it's not really a problem. Right Jon? -Original Message- From: Warner Onstine [mailto:warner;warneronstine.com] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 8:25 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] Mac question On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 08:08 AM, Warner Onstine wrote: Typically they announce new products at the different MacWorld's (typically). Another thing that they also do is switch between desktop and laptop, since they just announced the new dual g4 desktops my guess would be either the iBook or Titanium. The next expo is in January (may actually be able to make one finally ;-), where they will no doubt announce new systems. The new 14.1 iBook was introduced 5/2002, along with an updated Titanium as well so it is hard to say exactly when they will announce new laptops, it probably won't be in January but you never know. Oops, it was actually 1/2002 (they released a minor update to the hardware in 5/2002), read the wrong document. Some people are expecting g5 announcements at this Macworld, after this article on slashdot: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/10/14/ 158211mode=threadtid=126 . Lawson probably has a better feel for this however. -warner On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 07:29 AM, Randolph S. Kahle wrote: I know this is off-topic, but there seem to be a lot of Mac experts on this list. My father just sold his IBM portable and wants to switch to a Mac portable. Does anyone know about the product cycle from Apple? If he buys a high-end portable today will they bring out new models in another month? Is there a regular time of the year that Apple introduces products? Thanks -- Randy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] Eclipse Tips and Tricks
Ctrl-1 Smart fixing (when something has a red underline is pretty cools too. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] eclipse and web app deployment
Easie works well. Lomboz has a lot of buzz. -Original Message- From: Warner Onstine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 7:51 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] eclipse and web app deployment I guess the main question is, 'Has anyone used these?'. -warner - Original Message - From: Simon Ritchie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] eclipse and web app deployment I got 21 hits for application server plugins here: http://eclipse-plugins.2y.net/eclipse/plugins.jsp?category=Application+serve r Simon. Warner Onstine wrote: I was asked this question on another and wasn't sure what kind of plug-ins are out there for Eclipse to deploy apps to app servers. I've heard about the Tomcat one, but someone said that that requires you have your project setup like a web application. Any others? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] Eclipse Stupidity Continues!
Actually around here the opinions are about 50/50 on which is better. IntelliJ seems to do nice refactoring and is very speedy for a swing application. On the other hand, Eclipse is really starting to get there now. Some of the plug-ins are really amazing. I'd say that by the end of the year, there will be no contest. -Original Message- From: Thomas Hicks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 11:29 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] Eclipse Stupidity Continues! Hmmm...I find it hard to be convinced by arguments like this: it's not as extensible and it costs money...but it rocks! -tom At 11:13 AM 7/18/2002 -0700, Erik wrote: Nope. But it rocks! Mike Oliver wrote: Is IntelliJ as modular and extensible as Eclipse? O - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[jug-discussion] Eclipse - was RE: [jug-discussion] Second time a charm
Simon, Good call on http://sourceforge.net/projects/solareclipse/. I missed it. I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this site, but it tries to make a list of available plug-ins. http://eclipse-plugins.2y.net/eclipse/index.jsp Another cool plug-in is Slime (a uml tool). It's not really up to snuff yet though. http://www.mvmsoft.de -Original Message- From: Simon Ritchie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 9:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] Second time a charm Thomas Hicks wrote: Ah...now comes the learning curve. Since there seem to be a number of people trying out Eclipse right now. I thought it might be useful to post some of the preference settings I use. There are quite a lot of preferences and they can really alter the look and behaviour of the product. Everyone has their own way of configuring these things, but perhaps seeing the possibilities will help. Also, I would recommend installing the solar eclipse plug-in for editing XML. You can find it at http://sourceforge.net/projects/solareclipse/. It's a simple colorizing editor, but it is better than the default editor. The preferences pane is found under the menu WindowPreferences. The following refer to the individual preference panes: Workbench-Label Decorations-CVS: checked This displays the CVS revision number (and other attributes) of each file in the workspace. A '' is placed by default in front of changed files. Use Team-CVS-Label Decorations to control what decorators are used. External Tools-Ant-Jars: Add the jar 'c:\eclipse\workspace\Workspace Extensions\amoanttask.jar'. This is where you can add jar files containing your own Ant tasks. Java-Code Formatter-Line Splitting-Maximum Line Length: 160 I hate the default of 80 - but that's just me. Java-Compiler-Errors and WarningsUsage of deprecated API: Ignore Some programmers prefer not to see the deprecated warnings. Java-Organize Imports-Number of qualified imports before .* is used: 1 This causes Eclipse to always use .* at the end of qualified import statements. By default this value is 99 so you get a separate import statement for every class referred to. Team-CVS-Label Decorations-Indicate is outgoing: not checked Team-CVS-Label Decorations-Indicate has remote: not checked Team-CVS-Label Decorations-Indicate is added: not checked These settings make the icons used in the package view a little easier to understand. There are other defaults in the Java Perspective I change too. 1. I close the Outline View - I don't use it. 2. On the packages view I click the 'hide fields' button at the top of the view. I also change the filters on the package view to hide referenced libraries - I'm not interested in seeing which jar files a project uses. 3. On the Tasks view I change the filter to only show items 'on any resource in same project'. This allows me to only see errors and warnings a project at a time. Simon. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] Eclipse - was RE: [jug-discussion] Second time a charm
Here some more... New version put red squiggles and light builds on errors. It you go to the error and hit ctrl-1, it can usually correct the error. In the same vein, If you type an undefined method name and hit ctrl-1 you can have it insert a stub in the appropriate place. In the package explorer, click on the down arrow and then select filters. In here you can filter out files in the view. Great for those of us stuck with SourceSafe. Here's a page with lots of them: http://mmoebius.gmxhome.de/eclipse/basics.htm -Original Message- From: Vincent Greene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 8:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] Eclipse - was RE: [jug-discussion] Second time a charm It might be obvious, but I missed it for several weeks... You should also create file associations in Eclipse (Window-preferences-Workbench-File Associations) mapping *.htm and *.html to the XML editor to get colorized HTML source. Art Gramlich wrote: Simon, Good call on http://sourceforge.net/projects/solareclipse/. I missed it. I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this site, but it tries to make a list of available plug-ins. http://eclipse-plugins.2y.net/eclipse/index.jsp Another cool plug-in is Slime (a uml tool). It's not really up to snuff yet though. http://www.mvmsoft.de -Original Message- From: Simon Ritchie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 9:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] Second time a charm Thomas Hicks wrote: Ah...now comes the learning curve. Since there seem to be a number of people trying out Eclipse right now. I thought it might be useful to post some of the preference settings I use. There are quite a lot of preferences and they can really alter the look and behaviour of the product. Everyone has their own way of configuring these things, but perhaps seeing the possibilities will help. Also, I would recommend installing the solar eclipse plug-in for editing XML. You can find it at http://sourceforge.net/projects/solareclipse/. It's a simple colorizing editor, but it is better than the default editor. The preferences pane is found under the menu WindowPreferences. The following refer to the individual preference panes: Workbench-Label Decorations-CVS: checked This displays the CVS revision number (and other attributes) of each file in the workspace. A '' is placed by default in front of changed files. Use Team-CVS-Label Decorations to control what decorators are used. External Tools-Ant-Jars: Add the jar 'c:\eclipse\workspace\Workspace Extensions\amoanttask.jar'. This is where you can add jar files containing your own Ant tasks. Java-Code Formatter-Line Splitting-Maximum Line Length: 160 I hate the default of 80 - but that's just me. Java-Compiler-Errors and WarningsUsage of deprecated API: Ignore Some programmers prefer not to see the deprecated warnings. Java-Organize Imports-Number of qualified imports before .* is used: 1 This causes Eclipse to always use .* at the end of qualified import statements. By default this value is 99 so you get a separate import statement for every class referred to. Team-CVS-Label Decorations-Indicate is outgoing: not checked Team-CVS-Label Decorations-Indicate has remote: not checked Team-CVS-Label Decorations-Indicate is added: not checked These settings make the icons used in the package view a little easier to understand. There are other defaults in the Java Perspective I change too. 1. I close the Outline View - I don't use it. 2. On the packages view I click the 'hide fields' button at the top of the view. I also change the filters on the package view to hide referenced libraries - I'm not interested in seeing which jar files a project uses. 3. On the Tasks view I change the filter to only show items 'on any resource in same project'. This allows me to only see errors and warnings a project at a time. Simon. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [jug-discussion] drive recovery software os x
If it helps, most installations will use HFS+ (apple's filesystem - data/resource fork, etc). It is possible to create ufs/ffs bsd filesystems but it would be rare that this is done (performance is terrible, classic doesn't work, some carbon apps don't work, etc). -Original Message- From: Warner Onstine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 9:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] drive recovery software os x - Original Message - From: Paul Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 9:21 PM Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] drive recovery software os x Warner Onstine wrote: Hi all, I've recently had a crash (self-induced I think) of my OS, and while I've done this before this is the first time I've had serious problems recovering. Does anyone have Disk Warrior for Mac? I would be eternally grateful. Strange thing is, I can half-boot, all my services are running, but it refuses to login and start. I can even see the drive from OS 9 and from another system connected to it (just incredibly slow). I have tried all the things on Apple Knowledge Base and looked through MacinTouch.com, DiskWarrior was mentioned there as a possible solution. Hoping one of the AMO guys has something =). What file system does OS X use? I am currently writing something to recover files from an ext2 file system which had all its superblocks written over. I'm using Perl at the moment and may switch to C. Do you have a description of the details of the file system? It's based on either freebsd or netbsd (I forget which I think it's freebsd), I remember one of the utilities saying something about extended HFS if that means anything to this discussion. I did find a doc with a recommendation of doiing fsck -y -f -b16 (grab the superblock at 16), but I had the same results. -warner Paul Scott - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
