[kicad-users] Footprint for a Relay ?
Hi, I am using the Relay RELAY_2RT from the EEschema device library. I have a couple of question about it - 1. Why does it not use contiguous pin numbers instead using pins 1,3,5 8,9 and 12,14,16 ? My guess is it uses a standard package with missing pins to get double spacing. Please confirm. 2. What foot print should I use for it in cvpcb ? Regards yukku
Re: [kicad-users] Footprint for a Relay ?
It all depend what actual device the part was based on, but essentially it is as you say. Relay bases have a long history. Find the data sheet for the actual relay you are going to use and pick the footprint from that. My suspicion is that the device in the library is a DIL16 part so you would need a 16 pin DIL 0.3 footprint for the library device if you are using the same part that the library is created for. Datasheet time. On 2010-01-23, at 1:09 AM, yukku yukkoo wrote: Hi, I am using the Relay RELAY_2RT from the EEschema device library. I have a couple of question about it - 1. Why does it not use contiguous pin numbers instead using pins 1,3,5 8,9 and 12,14,16 ? My guess is it uses a standard package with missing pins to get double spacing. Please confirm. 2. What foot print should I use for it in cvpcb ? Regards yukku Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question. Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad. Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library. For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-users/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-users/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: kicad-users-dig...@yahoogroups.com kicad-users-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: kicad-users-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[kicad-users] Active and Inactive space
Hi all, I wish someday the Kicad developpers will have the time to divide a sheet (as of eeschema for example) as two independent spaces: (1) The area inside the page limits, in which all components and connections are treated as usual so it can be called active or Real. (2) Outside the active space, in which all components and connections are just ignored as if they don't exist, so this area may be called inactive or Unreal. But these do exist while saving/loading the sheet (very important) The difficult job might be at the boundaries and when something may belong to the two areas. This can be solved, I guess, by assuming the criteria: For any ambiguity that a boundary crosses an element, the element is supposed to be inactive (Unreal) as if it doesn't exist as a whole. But I am afraid that the benefits for being able to work on the same screen having the above two spaces could be appreciated by those who are creating new designs only. Because this gives a great saving of time while studying alternatives during the design. It allows to use just the 'Move' function most of the time instead of erasing/adding everytime a change would be needed. May I add... that like, for example, the flags V and I are for 'Visible' and 'Invisible', another pair of flags as R and U for 'Real' and 'Unreal' may need to be added for each element to implement this feature. Hope I will live long enough to work on this magic sheet :) Kerim
Re: [kicad-users] Footprint for a Relay ?
Many relays have a standard numbering system, especially if they are intended to be plugged into some form of holder. there are some variations, but generally they are two digit such as 11, 12, 13, 21, 22, 23 and so on, the coils are normally A1 and A2. I have also seen some bases with a letter and a number as well. The numbers refer to the poles and contacts, so 11 is pole 1 contact 1, 12 is pole 1 contact 2, 21 is pole 2 contact 1 and so on. I can't remember offhand which is the normally closed/open and common connections, I usually end up buzzing it out to be sure :-) Miniature PCB mount relays tend to be a little more variable. As for footprint, well you use the footprint that matches the relay... (I cannot see one in the standard lib) I drew up a simple footprint the last time I used a relay. I've used this SPST 12V 10A directly soldered into the PCB http://www.rapidonline.com/searchresults.aspx?style=0kw=60-4600 and the 60-4110 Double pole socket http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Relays-Solenoids/PCB-Relays/Miniature-relay-sockets/28667/kw/60-4110 I have simple footprints for both, if they are of any use you are welcome to a copy. Andy On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 01:09:33 -0800 (PST) yukku yukkoo yukku19752...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi, I am using the Relay RELAY_2RT from the EEschema device library. I have a couple of question about it - 1. Why does it not use contiguous pin numbers instead using pins 1,3,5 8,9 and 12,14,16 ? My guess is it uses a standard package with missing pins to get double spacing. Please confirm. 2. What foot print should I use for it in cvpcb ? Regards yukku
Re: [kicad-users] Active and Inactive space
If I understand correctly what you are asking for, it's already there. Just add a range of components that you are using once. If you wish you can place them outside the drawing outline. Then right click on a component, select copy and place the copy wherever you need it. I generally don't bother adding components outside the drawing, if I've already used one I just copy it from where I placed the previous component. Andy On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 09:29:21 - h_manbeing h_manbe...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi all, I wish someday the Kicad developpers will have the time to divide a sheet (as of eeschema for example) as two independent spaces: (1) The area inside the page limits, in which all components and connections are treated as usual so it can be called active or Real. (2) Outside the active space, in which all components and connections are just ignored as if they don't exist, so this area may be called inactive or Unreal. But these do exist while saving/loading the sheet (very important) The difficult job might be at the boundaries and when something may belong to the two areas. This can be solved, I guess, by assuming the criteria: For any ambiguity that a boundary crosses an element, the element is supposed to be inactive (Unreal) as if it doesn't exist as a whole. But I am afraid that the benefits for being able to work on the same screen having the above two spaces could be appreciated by those who are creating new designs only. Because this gives a great saving of time while studying alternatives during the design. It allows to use just the 'Move' function most of the time instead of erasing/adding everytime a change would be needed. May I add... that like, for example, the flags V and I are for 'Visible' and 'Invisible', another pair of flags as R and U for 'Real' and 'Unreal' may need to be added for each element to implement this feature. Hope I will live long enough to work on this magic sheet :) Kerim Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question. Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad. Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library. For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links
Re: [kicad-users] Footprint for a Relay ?
Hi, Thank you for the answer. That brings me to the question as to what to do if I do not have a data sheet for the part. Can I measure various lengths on the part and gaps between the pins and create my footprint ? What should be the minimum tolerance (in inches) to get a decent footprint ? Regards shyam From: Veronica Merryfield veronica.merryfi...@shaw.ca To: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 23, 2010 2:51:38 PM Subject: Re: [kicad-users] Footprint for a Relay ? It all depend what actual device the part was based on, but essentially it is as you say. Relay bases have a long history. Find the data sheet for the actual relay you are going to use and pick the footprint from that. My suspicion is that the device in the library is a DIL16 part so you would need a 16 pin DIL 0.3 footprint for the library device if you are using the same part that the library is created for. Datasheet time. On 2010-01-23, at 1:09 AM, yukku yukkoo wrote: Hi, I am using the Relay RELAY_2RT from the EEschema device library. I have a couple of question about it - 1. Why does it not use contiguous pin numbers instead using pins 1,3,5 8,9 and 12,14,16 ? My guess is it uses a standard package with missing pins to get double spacing. Please confirm. 2. What foot print should I use for it in cvpcb ? Regards yukku Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question. Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad. Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library. For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links
Re: [kicad-users] Footprint for a Relay ?
Andy, Thank you. Please send me the schematic part as well as the foot prints. Regards yukku From: Andy Eskelson andyya...@g0poy.co.uk To: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 23, 2010 4:36:45 PM Subject: Re: [kicad-users] Footprint for a Relay ? Many relays have a standard numbering system, especially if they are intended to be plugged into some form of holder. there are some variations, but generally they are two digit such as 11, 12, 13, 21, 22, 23 and so on, the coils are normally A1 and A2. I have also seen some bases with a letter and a number as well. The numbers refer to the poles and contacts, so 11 is pole 1 contact 1, 12 is pole 1 contact 2, 21 is pole 2 contact 1 and so on. I can't remember offhand which is the normally closed/open and common connections, I usually end up buzzing it out to be sure :-) Miniature PCB mount relays tend to be a little more variable. As for footprint, well you use the footprint that matches the relay... (I cannot see one in the standard lib) I drew up a simple footprint the last time I used a relay. I've used this SPST 12V 10A directly soldered into the PCB http://www.rapidonl ine.com/searchre sults.aspx? style=0kw= 60-4600 and the 60-4110 Double pole socket http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Relays-Solenoids/PCB-Relays/Miniature-relay-sockets/28667/kw/60-4110 I have simple footprints for both, if they are of any use you are welcome to a copy. Andy On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 01:09:33 -0800 (PST) yukku yukkoo yukku19752000@ yahoo.com wrote: Hi, I am using the Relay RELAY_2RT from the EEschema device library. I have a couple of question about it - 1. Why does it not use contiguous pin numbers instead using pins 1,3,5 8,9 and 12,14,16 ? My guess is it uses a standard package with missing pins to get double spacing. Please confirm. 2. What foot print should I use for it in cvpcb ? Regards yukku
Re: [kicad-users] Footprint for a Relay ?
One trick I sometime use if I cannot find a datasheet, (rare as you can usually find one in the various suppliers catalogues.) is to use a piece of matrix board. Most leaded components are on a 0.1 inch grid (there are exceptions but there are not too many) You can then count the hole spacing. The footprint is just that, an outline of the component. The critical part is any pad or mounting hole requirements. Just treat the leads as normal component leads, but I would suggest that you make the pads fairly large as they need to support a much heavier component than something like an IC. Andy On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 05:07:25 -0800 (PST) yukku yukkoo yukku19752...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi, Thank you for the answer. That brings me to the question as to what to do if I do not have a data sheet for the part. Can I measure various lengths on the part and gaps between the pins and create my footprint ? What should be the minimum tolerance (in inches) to get a decent footprint ? Regards shyam From: Veronica Merryfield veronica.merryfi...@shaw.ca To: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 23, 2010 2:51:38 PM Subject: Re: [kicad-users] Footprint for a Relay ? It all depend what actual device the part was based on, but essentially it is as you say. Relay bases have a long history. Find the data sheet for the actual relay you are going to use and pick the footprint from that. My suspicion is that the device in the library is a DIL16 part so you would need a 16 pin DIL 0.3 footprint for the library device if you are using the same part that the library is created for. Datasheet time. On 2010-01-23, at 1:09 AM, yukku yukkoo wrote: Hi, I am using the Relay RELAY_2RT from the EEschema device library. I have a couple of question about it - 1. Why does it not use contiguous pin numbers instead using pins 1,3,5 8,9 and 12,14,16 ? My guess is it uses a standard package with missing pins to get double spacing. Please confirm. 2. What foot print should I use for it in cvpcb ? Regards yukku Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question. Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad. Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library. For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links
[kicad-users] Re: Active and Inactive space
Thank you Andy for your reply. In my turn and if I understood well, your Kicad version of eeschema allows you to place components and perhaps uncomplete connections outside the main page without worrying about their wrong/missing annotation or the non connected pins... etc. Isn't what you mean? I run the last stable version of Kicad on Windows XP. Working on eeschema, whatever is found anywhere on the whole sheet, has the same importance as all other elements. So ERC check, netlist and BOM see the inside and the outside of the main page as one space in which everything should be done correctly in order to pass the check and generate good files. So to my knowledge, there is no area on the sheet that can be seen as equivalent to a trash can hence its contents are ignored by ERC and others. Kerim --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Andy Eskelson andyya...@... wrote: If I understand correctly what you are asking for, it's already there. Just add a range of components that you are using once. If you wish you can place them outside the drawing outline. Then right click on a component, select copy and place the copy wherever you need it. I generally don't bother adding components outside the drawing, if I've already used one I just copy it from where I placed the previous component. Andy On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 09:29:21 - h_manbeing h_manbe...@... wrote: Hi all, I wish someday the Kicad developpers will have the time to divide a sheet (as of eeschema for example) as two independent spaces: (1) The area inside the page limits, in which all components and connections are treated as usual so it can be called active or Real. (2) Outside the active space, in which all components and connections are just ignored as if they don't exist, so this area may be called inactive or Unreal. But these do exist while saving/loading the sheet (very important) The difficult job might be at the boundaries and when something may belong to the two areas. This can be solved, I guess, by assuming the criteria: For any ambiguity that a boundary crosses an element, the element is supposed to be inactive (Unreal) as if it doesn't exist as a whole. But I am afraid that the benefits for being able to work on the same screen having the above two spaces could be appreciated by those who are creating new designs only. Because this gives a great saving of time while studying alternatives during the design. It allows to use just the 'Move' function most of the time instead of erasing/adding everytime a change would be needed. May I add... that like, for example, the flags V and I are for 'Visible' and 'Invisible', another pair of flags as R and U for 'Real' and 'Unreal' may need to be added for each element to implement this feature. Hope I will live long enough to work on this magic sheet :) Kerim Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question. Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad. Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library. For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links
[kicad-users] Mechanical hole
Hi, I ask help to built a module designed to put anywhere on a board mechanical holes (drill positions) with large masks, so that a screw will be in contact with the cupper. If I put a large pad, the pad will be isolated from the local cupper area. If I connect the pad to the cupper then I get a thermal relief which is not wanted. And I do not found a possibility to have a mask size larger then the pad size. Many thanks in advance for any help, Jean-Paul Jean-Paul Gendner 03.88.27.03.44
[kicad-users] Re: Mechanical hole
I answer to myself! I just have to put a different pad size on the mask layers! Jean-Paul --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Jean-Paul Gendner jean-paul.gend...@... wrote: Hi, I ask help to built a module designed to put anywhere on a board mechanical holes (drill positions) with large masks, so that a screw will be in contact with the cupper. If I put a large pad, the pad will be isolated from the local cupper area. If I connect the pad to the cupper then I get a thermal relief which is not wanted. And I do not found a possibility to have a mask size larger then the pad size. Many thanks in advance for any help, Jean-Paul Jean-Paul Gendner 03.88.27.03.44
Re: [kicad-users] Footprint for a Relay ?
you have mail... andy On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 05:17:11 -0800 (PST) yukku yukkoo yukku19752...@yahoo.com wrote: Andy, Thank you. Please send me the schematic part as well as the foot prints. Regards yukku From: Andy Eskelson andyya...@g0poy.co.uk To: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, January 23, 2010 4:36:45 PM Subject: Re: [kicad-users] Footprint for a Relay ? Many relays have a standard numbering system, especially if they are intended to be plugged into some form of holder. there are some variations, but generally they are two digit such as 11, 12, 13, 21, 22, 23 and so on, the coils are normally A1 and A2. I have also seen some bases with a letter and a number as well. The numbers refer to the poles and contacts, so 11 is pole 1 contact 1, 12 is pole 1 contact 2, 21 is pole 2 contact 1 and so on. I can't remember offhand which is the normally closed/open and common connections, I usually end up buzzing it out to be sure :-) Miniature PCB mount relays tend to be a little more variable. As for footprint, well you use the footprint that matches the relay... (I cannot see one in the standard lib) I drew up a simple footprint the last time I used a relay. I've used this SPST 12V 10A directly soldered into the PCB http://www.rapidonl ine.com/searchre sults.aspx? style=0kw= 60-4600 and the 60-4110 Double pole socket http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Relays-Solenoids/PCB-Relays/Miniature-relay-sockets/28667/kw/60-4110 I have simple footprints for both, if they are of any use you are welcome to a copy. Andy On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 01:09:33 -0800 (PST) yukku yukkoo yukku19752000@ yahoo.com wrote: Hi, I am using the Relay RELAY_2RT from the EEschema device library. I have a couple of question about it - 1. Why does it not use contiguous pin numbers instead using pins 1,3,5 8,9 and 12,14,16 ? My guess is it uses a standard package with missing pins to get double spacing. Please confirm. 2. What foot print should I use for it in cvpcb ? Regards yukku
Re: [kicad-users] Re: Active and Inactive space
Ahh! a slightly different way of working I miss-understood what you were saying... You can move things about on and off the circuit area wherever you want, but that's all. While designing I don't use erc or bom, that all comes AFTER the design is done, when I delete all the leftover parts and check the connectivity. For odd bits of circuits I just keep them on separate sheets and cut and paste them between sheets as needed. i.e. I have a couple of standard 78xx type regulator circuits that I often use, so I drop them into the main design as needed. (I have a .sch page called circuit modules that I copy into each project for this purpose) Note that this is not a hierarchical sheet, just a standalone sheet. Andy On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 15:09:10 - h_manbeing h_manbe...@yahoo.com wrote: Thank you Andy for your reply. In my turn and if I understood well, your Kicad version of eeschema allows you to place components and perhaps uncomplete connections outside the main page without worrying about their wrong/missing annotation or the non connected pins... etc. Isn't what you mean? I run the last stable version of Kicad on Windows XP. Working on eeschema, whatever is found anywhere on the whole sheet, has the same importance as all other elements. So ERC check, netlist and BOM see the inside and the outside of the main page as one space in which everything should be done correctly in order to pass the check and generate good files. So to my knowledge, there is no area on the sheet that can be seen as equivalent to a trash can hence its contents are ignored by ERC and others. Kerim --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Andy Eskelson andyya...@... wrote: If I understand correctly what you are asking for, it's already there. Just add a range of components that you are using once. If you wish you can place them outside the drawing outline. Then right click on a component, select copy and place the copy wherever you need it. I generally don't bother adding components outside the drawing, if I've already used one I just copy it from where I placed the previous component. Andy On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 09:29:21 - h_manbeing h_manbe...@... wrote: Hi all, I wish someday the Kicad developpers will have the time to divide a sheet (as of eeschema for example) as two independent spaces: (1) The area inside the page limits, in which all components and connections are treated as usual so it can be called active or Real. (2) Outside the active space, in which all components and connections are just ignored as if they don't exist, so this area may be called inactive or Unreal. But these do exist while saving/loading the sheet (very important) The difficult job might be at the boundaries and when something may belong to the two areas. This can be solved, I guess, by assuming the criteria: For any ambiguity that a boundary crosses an element, the element is supposed to be inactive (Unreal) as if it doesn't exist as a whole. But I am afraid that the benefits for being able to work on the same screen having the above two spaces could be appreciated by those who are creating new designs only. Because this gives a great saving of time while studying alternatives during the design. It allows to use just the 'Move' function most of the time instead of erasing/adding everytime a change would be needed. May I add... that like, for example, the flags V and I are for 'Visible' and 'Invisible', another pair of flags as R and U for 'Real' and 'Unreal' may need to be added for each element to implement this feature. Hope I will live long enough to work on this magic sheet :) Kerim Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question. Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad. Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library. For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question. Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad. Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library. For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links
[kicad-users] Re: Active and Inactive space
Hi Andy, Your actual way is also my favorite one so I know what you mean. That is why and as I mentioned at the beginning... what I have suggested was and will be always a wish... I guess :) Kerim --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Andy Eskelson andyya...@... wrote: Ahh! a slightly different way of working I miss-understood what you were saying... You can move things about on and off the circuit area wherever you want, but that's all. While designing I don't use erc or bom, that all comes AFTER the design is done, when I delete all the leftover parts and check the connectivity. For odd bits of circuits I just keep them on separate sheets and cut and paste them between sheets as needed. i.e. I have a couple of standard 78xx type regulator circuits that I often use, so I drop them into the main design as needed. (I have a .sch page called circuit modules that I copy into each project for this purpose) Note that this is not a hierarchical sheet, just a standalone sheet. Andy On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 15:09:10 - h_manbeing h_manbe...@... wrote: Thank you Andy for your reply. In my turn and if I understood well, your Kicad version of eeschema allows you to place components and perhaps uncomplete connections outside the main page without worrying about their wrong/missing annotation or the non connected pins... etc. Isn't what you mean? I run the last stable version of Kicad on Windows XP. Working on eeschema, whatever is found anywhere on the whole sheet, has the same importance as all other elements. So ERC check, netlist and BOM see the inside and the outside of the main page as one space in which everything should be done correctly in order to pass the check and generate good files. So to my knowledge, there is no area on the sheet that can be seen as equivalent to a trash can hence its contents are ignored by ERC and others. Kerim --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Andy Eskelson andyyahoo@ wrote: If I understand correctly what you are asking for, it's already there. Just add a range of components that you are using once. If you wish you can place them outside the drawing outline. Then right click on a component, select copy and place the copy wherever you need it. I generally don't bother adding components outside the drawing, if I've already used one I just copy it from where I placed the previous component. Andy On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 09:29:21 - h_manbeing h_manbeing@ wrote: Hi all, I wish someday the Kicad developpers will have the time to divide a sheet (as of eeschema for example) as two independent spaces: (1) The area inside the page limits, in which all components and connections are treated as usual so it can be called active or Real. (2) Outside the active space, in which all components and connections are just ignored as if they don't exist, so this area may be called inactive or Unreal. But these do exist while saving/loading the sheet (very important) The difficult job might be at the boundaries and when something may belong to the two areas. This can be solved, I guess, by assuming the criteria: For any ambiguity that a boundary crosses an element, the element is supposed to be inactive (Unreal) as if it doesn't exist as a whole. But I am afraid that the benefits for being able to work on the same screen having the above two spaces could be appreciated by those who are creating new designs only. Because this gives a great saving of time while studying alternatives during the design. It allows to use just the 'Move' function most of the time instead of erasing/adding everytime a change would be needed. May I add... that like, for example, the flags V and I are for 'Visible' and 'Invisible', another pair of flags as R and U for 'Real' and 'Unreal' may need to be added for each element to implement this feature. Hope I will live long enough to work on this magic sheet :) Kerim Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question. Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad. Please visit http://www.kicadlib.org for details of how to contribute your symbols/modules to the kicad library. For building Kicad from source and other development questions visit the kicad-devel group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-develYahoo! Groups Links Please read the Kicad FAQ in the group files section before posting your question. Please post your bug reports here. They will be picked up by the creator of Kicad.
