KR> EAA survey

[Joe. E. Wallace]

Just a little more detail on the SAA  Until this year, I've attended this 
event at Urbana IL.  at Frasca Field.  A 5400' paved runway, with a 3200 sod 
strip.  The location of Frasca Intl. the manufacturer of the most advanced 
flight simulators built.  Operated by the Frasca family with the support of 
Paul and Audrey Poberzny...   Truly a grass roots event, with good food at very 
reasonable prices, catered by a local EAA chapter. Forums by different pilots 
about different airplanes and the displays of the Frasca collection as well as 
the many fly-ins...  2 1/2 days of pleasure with no outside vendors  or 
loud noises (except airplanes).  Entertainment has been visiting with other 
pilots from all over the country.  Paul and Rudy started the SAA to continue 
the grass roots environment that started EAA  With Paul's age and the 
efforts to bring this to happening, the last year has been done by the Frasca 
family with Paul's blessing and the thanks of many devoted just  PLANE   
people...   May it continue!  

Thanks for the time  jw

Joe. E. Wallace
jwallace...@gmail.com



On Jul 7, 2011, at 5:02 PM, Bob Glidden wrote:

> The SAA Sport aircraft association (I think) is no more Paul P started it up
> a few years back and had a hand full of fly-ins at a grass strip in
> Illinois, but it never really went anywhere. It was not all commercialized
> about the only thing you could buy there was a t-shirt and some food.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
> Of Glenn Martin
> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:41 AM
> To: KRnet
> Subject: Re: KR> EAA survey
> 
> On 7/6/2011 2:38 PM, Bob Glidden wrote:
>> I think it is funny that the founder of EAA Paul P. started SAA a few
> years
>> back because he said EAA was becoming to commercialized.
> What is the SAA?
> 
> -- 
> Glenn Martin,
> KR2 N1333A,
> Biloxi, MS
> 
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KR> EAA survey

[Patrick and Robin Russo]

But we have. Many many times and for many years!
- Original Message - 
From: "phillip matheson" <phillipmathe...@bigpond.com>
To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: KR> EAA survey


> Guys
> I do agree with a lot of things, BUT you need to tell the EAA, the survey
> ( which I did as an international member) does not have the room for these
> GREAT comments, sent them to them
>
> Phil Matheson
> SAAA Ch 37
> http://www.philskr2.50megs.com/
> ___
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>
>
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> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> 

KR> EAA survey

[phillip matheson]

Guys
I do agree with a lot of things, BUT you need to tell the EAA, the survey 
( which I did as an international member) does not have the room for these 
GREAT comments, sent them to them

Phil Matheson
SAAA Ch 37
http://www.philskr2.50megs.com/
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KR> EAA survey

[Mark]

I would certainly support the idea of a "Members Only" section of AirVenture
for members of EAA/pilots/experimental builders... after all, that is why I
joined; so I could see and find out what the experimental idea was about
when I found out what a 30 year old certificated airplane would cost.

Having said that, however, keep in mind that AirVenture has become a true
carnival event... people get exposure to aviation that they would/can get
nowhere else on the planet (literally). So I don't have a problem with the
organization or the event.

 To put it in perspective, I live in SE Wisconsin near the Gurney IL Great
America theme park... without special discounts you'll spend ~$70 to get in,
$15 to park. Rides are "free" but you will stand in line for 30 - 40 minutes
to get on (unless you pay a premium "gold" membership). $5 hot dog get
real, try $10 plus $5 for your drink... you don't even want to know what the
souvenirs cost. A family of four can drop $300 a day with no problem, and
that doesn't count lodging if you are from out of town.

This kind of thing is always a financial game; support your local EAA
chapter and participate in young Eagles, breakfast fly ins etc. AirVenture
is the place to go to see the "big iron" and new avionics and 'dream a
little'. I go because I can see everything; as a member, other 'home builts,
and get ideas; F-22 raptor 'flashing' the crowd; aircraft from when I was
young and in the Marine Corps with 1st MAW (F4's, A4's, miscellaneous
helicopters, and yes, noisy Harriers, not to mention A6's).

Oshkosh is what it is; I enjoy it and will continue to attend.

JMHO

Mark W
N952MW res. 

Larry Howell wrote;

I have been attending the Oshkosh EAA Convention since 1978 and have been
fortunate enough to have attended every year since that time. I have had
many friends during all these years like some of you who have flown their
homebuilt airplanes there. Some of them have been damaged by unknowing,
uncaring or careless spectators. I have seen unsupervised children 

KR> EAA survey

[Bob Glidden]

The SAA Sport aircraft association (I think) is no more Paul P started it up
a few years back and had a hand full of fly-ins at a grass strip in
Illinois, but it never really went anywhere. It was not all commercialized
about the only thing you could buy there was a t-shirt and some food.

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Glenn Martin
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:41 AM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> EAA survey

On 7/6/2011 2:38 PM, Bob Glidden wrote:
> I think it is funny that the founder of EAA Paul P. started SAA a few
years
> back because he said EAA was becoming to commercialized.
What is the SAA?

-- 
Glenn Martin,
KR2 N1333A,
Biloxi, MS

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KR> EAA survey

[Paulo De Tarso Montanaro]

good afternoom
Mr. Larry H.
I know what is it and I think it was existing in mine country but the ignorant 
peoples have at anywhere perhaps they dont have oportunity to have education, 
but how do You was saying, there are some engineering arts homebuilders. I dont 
like if somebody steep in mine airplane too.
I hope one day I succeded in completing mine work and fly to meeting Oshkosh, 
or KR at EUA.
I believe I will can
best regards 
from Brazil
Paulo T. Montanaro



> From: lah...@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: KR> EAA survey
> Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 14:18:09 -0500
> To: kr...@mylist.net
> 
> I have been attending the Oshkosh EAA Convention since 1978 and have been 
> fortunate enough to have attended every year since that time. I have had many 
> friends during all these years like some of you who have flown their 
> homebuilt airplanes there. Some of them have been damaged by unknowing, 
> uncaring or careless spectators. I have seen unsupervised children climb and 
> stand on the tail section of taildragger aircraft for example. I have watched 
> guys with cameras hanging around their necks lean over to have a look inside, 
> as their camera swings out dinging/scratching a perfect paint job. I have had 
> to tell kids to get off the tail of an airplane while their ignorant parents 
> looked at me thinking, who is this guy telling their children what to do. The 
> idea of a guy spending 20 years building his dream machine, the desire to 
> take and display his creation at Oshkosh only to find upon arrival that his 
> plane the main attraction to the show has to pay full camping and admission 
> price while risking damage to it. That is the same as a NFL player paying to 
> play the game while the owners/organizers reap all the benefits!
> You Oshkosh old-timers like me will remember when you had to be a pilot or an 
> EAA member to cross the fence to enter the area where the airplanes were 
> parked. The idea was that an airplane person or family would know how to 
> treat these delicate works of art.
> Then when the commercialization took over, pedal to the metal cash cow idea ? 
> Oh! let's make all the local and passer by non airplane people happy by 
> letting them and their hellion kids have full access to everything including 
> airplanes. All so they will keep coming back and paying their money to get in 
> year after year, while not having to become an EAA member to have such 
> access. After all who wants to keep coming back year after year if full 
> access is denied for a one day admission ticket! Right?
> I have thought from the very beginning that the homebuilt show plane builders 
> or owners having to pay full admission was ridiculous and not fair. Those 
> builder pilots spend an enormous amount of time and money to get a plane 
> built and readied for such an exhibition. As I have said for 30+ years they 
> are the show. I have said, what would the convention do if all of them 
> decided to NOT SHOW UP one year? What would the attendees look at? Williams 
> jet engines? A new $500,000.00 Cessna?
> I thought taking the fence down and turning non airplane people loose on 
> peoples life long dreams was a mistake and I still do think that
> It used to be our ( the EAA members) convention, then it got turned over to 
> the public. I still go to Oshkosh because of guys like some of you that I see 
> there and many other lifelong friends I have met there and some of them I 
> only see there.
> I have seen a lot of negative things over the years revolving around EAA but 
> I have also seen a lot of good. If things were just completely terrible I 
> guess we would just quit going.
> 
> Larry H
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:35 PM, "joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com" 
> <joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hey,All you guys filled out the Eaa survey??? One point i tried to make was 
> > that I beleive that people 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
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> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html

KR> EAA survey

[Larry Howell]

I have been attending the Oshkosh EAA Convention since 1978 and have been 
fortunate enough to have attended every year since that time. I have had many 
friends during all these years like some of you who have flown their homebuilt 
airplanes there. Some of them have been damaged by unknowing, uncaring or 
careless spectators. I have seen unsupervised children climb and stand on the 
tail section of taildragger aircraft for example. I have watched guys with 
cameras hanging around their necks lean over to have a look inside, as their 
camera swings out dinging/scratching a perfect paint job. I have had to tell 
kids to get off the tail of an airplane while their ignorant parents looked at 
me thinking, who is this guy telling their children what to do. The idea of a 
guy spending 20 years building his dream machine, the desire to take and 
display his creation at Oshkosh only to find upon arrival that his plane the 
main attraction to the show has to pay full camping and admission price while 
risking damage to it. That is the same as a NFL player paying to play the game 
while the owners/organizers reap all the benefits!
You Oshkosh old-timers like me will remember when you had to be a pilot or an 
EAA member to cross the fence to enter the area where the airplanes were 
parked. The idea was that an airplane person or family would know how to treat 
these delicate works of art.
Then when the commercialization took over, pedal to the metal cash cow idea ? 
Oh! let's make all the local and passer by non airplane people happy by letting 
them and their hellion kids have full access to everything including airplanes. 
All so they will keep coming back and paying their money to get in year after 
year, while not having to become an EAA member to have such access. After all 
who wants to keep coming back year after year if full access is denied for a 
one day admission ticket! Right?
I have thought from the very beginning that the homebuilt show plane builders 
or owners having to pay full admission was ridiculous and not fair. Those 
builder pilots spend an enormous amount of time and money to get a plane built 
and readied for such an exhibition. As I have said for 30+ years they are the 
show. I have said, what would the convention do if all of them decided to NOT 
SHOW UP one year? What would the attendees look at? Williams jet engines? A new 
$500,000.00 Cessna?
I thought taking the fence down and turning non airplane people loose on 
peoples life long dreams was a mistake and I still do think that
It used to be our ( the EAA members) convention, then it got turned over to the 
public. I still go to Oshkosh because of guys like some of you that I see there 
and many other lifelong friends I have met there and some of them I only see 
there.
I have seen a lot of negative things over the years revolving around EAA but I 
have also seen a lot of good. If things were just completely terrible I guess 
we would just quit going.

Larry H
Sent from my iPad

On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:35 PM, "joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com" 
 wrote:

> Hey,All you guys filled out the Eaa survey??? One point i tried to make was 
> that I beleive that people 
> 
> 
> 

KR> EAA survey

[Virgil N. Salisbury]

On 7/7/2011 8:40 AM, Glenn Martin wrote:
> On 7/6/2011 2:38 PM, Bob Glidden wrote:
>> I think it is funny that the founder of EAA Paul P. started SAA a few years
>> back because he said EAA was becoming to commercialized.
> What is the SAA?
>
SPORT AVIATION ASSOCIATION, Virg

KR> EAA survey

[Glenn Martin]

On 7/6/2011 2:38 PM, Bob Glidden wrote:
> I think it is funny that the founder of EAA Paul P. started SAA a few years
> back because he said EAA was becoming to commercialized.
What is the SAA?

-- 
Glenn Martin,
KR2 N1333A,
Biloxi, MS

KR> EAA survey

[Bob Glidden]

EAA was founded on experimental aircraft, and I'm not thrilled that it's now

being expanded to "spam cans", a segment that is well represented in so many

ways.  Warbirds are nice from a nostalgic standpoint, but if I never had to 
stop another conversation with a KR builder to plug my ears while a Harrier 
showed off in front of the airshow crowd, it would be fine with me.


I think it is funny that the founder of EAA Paul P. started SAA a few years
back because he said EAA was becoming to commercialized. Wonder who
caused/let that happen. It is all about the money now. They would rather
have people giving massages and selling pots and pans then a guy selling
used parts. Anyone that knows me knows I love anything that involves an
airplane and Oshkosh is like therapy. If it was not for the great group of
people that get together every year, (most of them I met through this group)
it would not be worth going. It has became a family trip for us now and has
become the start of our family vacation every year. Oshkosh has always been
the place for anything new in aviation that hits the market. Both EAA and
AOPA are a big voice for GA and do a lot a great things, but I would love to
see the swap meet area get back to what it used to be. Anyone that goes to
Sun-N-Fun knows what I mean, their fly market is awesome. So go ahead and
flame away, but remember this is my opinion and has been shared by many
including the founder himself. We are the members and should have a voice,
if we all keep sending emails to them and voicing our thoughts maybe we can
get it back to the way it was.

KR> EAA survey

[Fred Johnson]

Ditto's to what Mark wrote.



Fred Johnson
Reno, NV

Mark L wrote:

I realize that 
incentivizing experimental aircraft builders to show up for OSH is a foreign

concept, but I think it has merit.

Five dollar hotdogs and drinks are another matter...

KR> EAA survey

[Mark Langford]

Mark Wegmet wrote:

>>Just my two cents, but who are we talking about; the folks that actually
built their airplane or just anyone who flies there? If I buy a Glasair,
Falco, KR, or whatever, do I get in free too?<<

EAA was founded on experimental aircraft, and I'm not thrilled that it's now 
being expanded to "spam cans", a segment that is well represented in so many 
ways.  Warbirds are nice from a nostalgic standpoint, but if I never had to 
stop another conversation with a KR builder to plug my ears while a Harrier 
showed off in front of the airshow crowd, it would be fine with me. 
Organizations (and magazines) that represent experimental aviation can be 
counted on a few fingers of one hand.  There is a deliberate effort to merge 
EAA with AOPA and other GA interests, and I think GA has plenty of other 
ways to represent itself.  I'm an AOPA member, and I don't need another GA 
magazine.  If I wanted to overdose on GA and fancy bizjets and twins, I'd 
subscribe to Flying. Cessna folks have the Cessna Maintenace letter and all 
that kind of stuff.  Experimentals are so few and far between that they need 
a magazine devoted to nothing but them.  Kitplanes is number one there, as 
far as I'm concerned, although Sport Aviation is coming back around to some 
extent.  The EAA's online videos are excellent, and that kind of information 
and coverage is where the organization should be putting its effort...where 
nobody else does.

To answer your question, one of my biggest impediments to staying very long 
at Airventure is the camping hassle.  If they'd give every experimental 
aircraft builder with a Repairman's Certificate in his pocket who flies into 
OSH  a 50% discount on camping and daily admission, I personally would feel 
much better about flying in and camping there.  I'm not a reknowned 
cheapskate, but it doesn't sit well with me to fly in and put my plane on 
display, subjecting it to damage from airshow gawkers and children, and have 
to pay for admission and camping for the honor of doing so.  I realize that 
incentivizing experimental aircraft builders to show up for OSH is a foreign 
concept, but I think it has merit.

Five dollar hotdogs and drinks are another matter...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com
 

KR> EAA survey

[Mark]

Just my two cents, but who are we talking about; the folks that actually
built their airplane or just anyone who flies there? If I buy a Glasair,
Falco, KR, or whatever, do I get in free too? How about the pilot that
restored his Cessna 140? 

Where do you draw the line? EAA is a business (no matter that we all benefit
from the organization's activities). Obviously it is very profitable and
allows for all of us to enjoy some neat benefits. The show is what the
organizers put on, not the pilots that show up.

I'm just a student pilot, but I am working with two KR projects (KR2 and
KR2S), but I do have about 30 years management experience in high tech
manufacturing environments (mostly electronics), so I think that a broader
perspective would be appropriate.

JMHO.

Mark W.
N952MW (res.)
EAA 807851; AOPA 05541819

-Original Message-
From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On Behalf
Of Dan Heath
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 7:44 PM
To: 'KRnet'
Subject: RE: KR> EAA survey

I agree and was just discussing that with some of our EAA members.  I said
exactly the same thing, they are the show.  They should not be charged
admission, at all.  Not there, not nowhere.

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics See you at the
2011 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN There is a time for building and
it never seems to end.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC


-Original Message-

Hey,All you guys filled out the Eaa survey??? One point i tried to make was
that I beleive that people that fly their planes to OSH or SNF should be
gien a break on fees - after all they are the show.Joe
Hortonhttp://www.zipsurvey.com/LaunchSurvey.aspx?ieid=5365746=20AD4EBC


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KR> EAA survey

[tinya...@aol.com]

Good luck with the reduction in fees.  I have collector cars and the  
"fancy" car shows want me to PAY to show my car.Uh..NO!   Yeah, I know. 
 
I am talking cars, you are talking  airplanes.  However, you get the idea.

Kevin Golden
Harrisonville, MO






In a message dated 7/5/2011 5:37:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com writes:

Hey,All  you guys filled out the Eaa survey??? One point i tried to make 
was that I  beleive that people that fly their planes to OSH or SNF should be 
gien a break  on fees - after all they are the show.Joe  
Hortonhttp://www.zipsurvey.com/LaunchSurvey.aspx?ieid=5365746=20AD4EBC

57  Year Old Mom Looks 27!
Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered  Doctors!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4e1391d68004e248ef3st04duc
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KR> EAA survey

[Dan Heath]

I agree and was just discussing that with some of our EAA members.  I said
exactly the same thing, they are the show.  They should not be charged
admission, at all.  Not there, not nowhere.

See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics 
See you at the 2011 - KR Gathering in Mt. Vernon, Il - MVN
There is a time for building and it never seems to end.
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC


-Original Message-

Hey,All you guys filled out the Eaa survey??? One point i tried to make was
that I beleive that people that fly their planes to OSH or SNF should be
gien a break on fees - after all they are the show.Joe
Hortonhttp://www.zipsurvey.com/LaunchSurvey.aspx?ieid=5365746=20AD4EBC

KR> EAA survey

[joe.kr2s.buil...@juno.com]

Hey,All you guys filled out the Eaa survey??? One point i tried to make was 
that I beleive that people that fly their planes to OSH or SNF should be gien a 
break on fees - after all they are the show.Joe 
Hortonhttp://www.zipsurvey.com/LaunchSurvey.aspx?ieid=5365746=20AD4EBC

57 Year Old Mom Looks 27!
Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4e1391d68004e248ef3st04duc