Re: KR> rudder pedals - ASI

[bjoenunley via KRnet]

Please check for accuracy before your first flight.
I did all the accuracy checks as described bellow.  Even after the checks my 
airspeed indicator didn't read at low taxi speeds.  When we got fast enough the 
airspeed jumped up and started reading effectively.  It happened around 35 mph. 
 At full throttle I was at 35mph so fast that the lag had no real effect.  
Please check for accuracy before your first flight. 
Be safe and have fun.  

>>Checking airspeed indicator accuracy is pretty simple.  See 
> http://www.n56ml.com/airspeed_calibration/ .  It's important for your 
> first flighttrust me on this...
>

Joe Nunley Baker Florida 
null
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Re: KR> rudder pedals - ASI

[jeb via KRnet]

I saw that, followed it from a google search, pretty cool way.
I was thinking of pulling ASI out and setting it on my dash board
with a nylo-flow tube hanging out the window and comparing
car speedO with ASI.


> It's a 40-250 so, maybe I just didn't get it going fast enough?

Checking airspeed indicator accuracy is pretty simple.  See 
http://www.n56ml.com/airspeed_calibration/ .  It's important for your 
first flighttrust me on this...






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Re: KR> rudder pedals - ASI

[Mark Langford via KRnet]

Jeb wrote:

> What do y'all think of these canopy latches?
> http://www.hendricksmfg.com/
> more input gladly accepted.

That's awfully steep, and probably heavy, for what it takes to keep a KR 
canopy shut.  I put some latches on N56ML (two total, at the rear) and 
N891JF came with a very similar pair,  that cost $7 each...just plain 
"suitcase latches".  I bought mine from McMaster Carr. They are "not 
rated" for tensile strength, but I challenge you to pull just one of 
them apart with all the strength you can muster. I have proven that just 
one of these is good enough to hold my canopy to the airplane at 120mph. 
 See https://www.mcmaster.com/#1889a43/=19npe4z .


> It's a 40-250 so, maybe I just didn't get it going fast enough?

Checking airspeed indicator accuracy is pretty simple.  See 
http://www.n56ml.com/airspeed_calibration/ .  It's important for your 
first flighttrust me on this...


Mark Langford
m...@n56ml.com
http://www.n56ml.com


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KR> rudder pedals - ASI

[jeb via KRnet]

Thanks for the input.
Guess I'll look at it, next time I have the fuel tank/front deck off.
I may just have mis-sized springs.

I took 2 degrees of pitch off my prop, got static rpm up to 4750.
Did a high(ish) speed taxi.  I thought I was going about 40-45 - but the 
ASI never budged. Got a friend to watch it while I gently huffed on it.

I reacts just fine.
It's a 40-250 so, maybe I just didn't get it going fast enough?
What do y'all think of these canopy lathes?
http://www.hendricksmfg.com/
more input gladly accepted.

next - I've got to replace the engine mount rubber bushings and clean 
up, fire proof the firewall penetrations.



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Re: KR> rudder pedals

[John Bouyea via KRnet]

Jeb, I did as Mark did. Simple and precise, a closed loop system like the
aileron controls are a closed loop system. I don't have a photo to post
right away...
John Bouyea
N5391M/ KR2
OR81/ Hillsboro, OR
2015 KR@MMV Gathering CoHost

> My question - does anybody use pulley(s) cables to inter-connect rudder
pedals?
I used two small MS pullies located in front of the left and right-most
uprights, with a 1/16" cable between them, using the rudder turnbuckle sto
take the slack out http://www.n56ml.com/pedals/00012802.jpg Mark Langford


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Re: KR> rudder pedals

[Larry Flesner via KRnet]

At 06:17 PM 10/2/2017, you wrote:
My question - does anybody use pulley(s) cables to inter-connect 
rudder pedals? I'm currently using a spring on each. Any thought on 
pulley/cable - pictures/drawings? 
___



I use springs attached to firewall.  Works fine for 650 hours now.

Larry Flesner 



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Re: KR> rudder pedals

[Mark Langford via KRnet]

Jeb wrote:

> My question - does anybody use pulley(s) cables to inter-connect 
rudder pedals?


I used two small MS pullies located in front of the left and right-most 
uprights, with a 1/16" cable between them, using the rudder turnbuckle 
sto take the slack out.  It has worked flawlessly, never giving me a 
nanosecond of trouble.  You can barely see the cable on the far pilot's 
side upright in the photo at http://www.n56ml.com/pedals/00012802.jpg. 
It's fastened with an eye bolt.  It probably does weight about 4 ounces 
total though.


Mark Langford
m...@n56ml.com
http://www.n56ml.com


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Re: KR> rudder pedals

[ppaulvsk via KRnet]

I'm planning on using Springs. Keeping it simple.
Paul Visk Belleville Il 618-406-4705

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: jeb via KRnet  
Date: 10/2/17  6:17 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: krnet@list.krnet.org Cc: jeb 
 Subject: KR> rudder pedals 
well, since retirement, I've gotten back to work on my Subaru (turbo) 
powered KR.

Got a hangar and moved it over to the airport.  Getting 4300-4400 rpm 
static with Warp drive 3 blade (60in) prop.  Manual boost controller set 
mid-scale.  Innovate boost gauge showing about 5-8 inches.

After draining and refilling brakes, I drove it around a bit - Great fun,

My question - does anybody use pulley(s) cables to inter-connect rudder 
pedals?

I'm currently using a spring on each.

Any thought on pulley/cable - pictures/drawings?



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KR> rudder pedals

[jeb via KRnet]

well, since retirement, I've gotten back to work on my Subaru (turbo) 
powered KR.


Got a hangar and moved it over to the airport.  Getting 4300-4400 rpm 
static with Warp drive 3 blade (60in) prop.  Manual boost controller set 
mid-scale.  Innovate boost gauge showing about 5-8 inches.


After draining and refilling brakes, I drove it around a bit - Great fun,

My question - does anybody use pulley(s) cables to inter-connect rudder 
pedals?


I'm currently using a spring on each.

Any thought on pulley/cable - pictures/drawings?



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KR> rudder pedals?

[Larry Flesner]

At 02:39 AM 6/4/2016, you wrote:
>whats the issue with stock kr tubular rudder pedals?


The right pedal is torqued across it's entire length when the pilot 
uses right rudder, highest loads with a tail wheel on the ground.  My 
right pedal broke at the 90 degree weld just above the pilots foot at 
about the 500 hour point.  Fortunately it broke on the ground right 
in front of Mark Langford's hangar when doing a pivot on one wheel 
turn-around.  The material is thick enough but needs gussets at the 
90 degree corners.  I'm sure the pedals don't see the same level of 
flexing loads in a nose dragger.  The left pedal has the cable 
attached at the pilots foot and is not subjected to the same loading 
as the right pedal but if wouldn't hurt to reinforce both if you're 
going to do one.  

KR> Rudder pedals with toe brakes

[Flesner]

>
>
>I'm looking for a set of rudder pedals with toe brake fittings or
>maybe a set of experienced plans for the Hegar hydraulic cylinders to
>replace the original brake-less rudder pedals.
+++

For top mounted rudder pedals you might try this 
setup.  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8534.JPG 
, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8531.JPG

No welding involved.

Larry Flesner 

KR> rudder pedals

[Jeff Scott]

The highest load on your rudder pedals will happen under hard braking if you 
have hydraulic toe brakes.  At that point, your pedals aren't going to be 
anywhere near the stops.  The left pedal isn't a problem so much as the right 
pedal because your feet are on the left side, but the right pedal is pulling 
against the rudder cable from the right seat pedal while you are romping on 
right rudder pedal in the left seat.  That's a lot of leverage against the 
joints in the right rudder pedal assembly.

-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM


>
> I plan on adding stop blocks extending aft from the firewall to the pilot 
> side pedals for those moments when reaction happens faster than rational 
> thought.  This will add literally zero pounds.
> Enjoyed the conversations at the Gathering last week.
> Roger
> Owasso, OK
> 
> 
>  Paul Visk via KRnet  wrote: 
> > I'm thinking a quick fix would be to put ?your rudder travel stops coming 
> > off the firewall and hitting the peddle under your foot. Making sure it 
> > doesn't affect your braking. By doing this, it will remove all excessive 
> > forces from the rudder control system.
> 
> Paul Visk
> Belleville Il
> 618 406 4705

KR> rudder pedals

[Mark Langford]

Jeff Scott wrote:

> The highest load on your rudder pedals will happen under hard braking if you 
> have hydraulic toe brakes.  

And it goes without saying that if you stand on the brakes while landing, 
you're probably going to have to buy another prop and crank if you have a 
taildragger!  Full brakes is a runup phenomenon, at least in my two KRs. 
Wheel-landings on a short field are a delicate balancing act when on the 
brakes, to keep the prop off the ground.  As Larry would say, "your mileage may 
vary"...

Mark Langford, Harvest, AL
ML at N56ML.com
www.N56ML.com  

KR> rudder pedals

[sparky]

You are right on Jeff, it was my rt. petal that bent.Sparky

KR> rudder pedals

[Phillip Matheson]

This may effect Tail dragger more then nose wheel, but we must check the 
pedals regularly .

No probs yet at 540 hours (nose wheel)

I check my pedals at all annuals, I have made my next ones stronger as it 
will be a T/ Wheel, for more fun.

Phil Matheson
---

> The plans rudder pedals were .035. They were upgraded to .049 with
> hydraulic brakes but was still problematic. We make all of ours from . 
> 058.
> Not much weight gain but much safer/ stronger.
>
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KR> rudder pedals

[Tony King]

Thanks Steve.  Good info.

TK

On 11 September 2014 10:17, Steve G. via KRnet  wrote:

> The plans rudder pedals were .035. They were upgraded to .049 with
> hydraulic brakes but was still problematic. We make all of ours from . 058.
> Not much weight gain but much safer/ stronger.
>
> Steve Glover
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 10, 2014, at 15:01, Flesner via KRnet 
> wrote:
> >
> > At 02:25 PM 9/10/2014, you wrote:
> >> What Sparky doesn't mention is that in trying to "keep it light," he
> lost
> >> his rudder because the tubing he and Murray used to fabricate the rudder
> >> pedals broke at a critical moment when he was caught by a gust on
> >> landing.
> > +++
> >
> > I had my right pedal on the pilots side break several years ago and
> cautioned the KR community to reinforce the pedals with a gusset at the 90
> degree weld on the horizontal to vertical tube.  Mine is the standard RR
> supplied pedals.  The right pedal is susceptible to the greatest amount of
> flexing from the pilots right pedal to the cable attach on the right side
> of the cockpit.
> >
> > Larry Flesner
> >
> > ___
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> change options
>
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>

KR> rudder pedals

[Paul Visk]

Jeff, You did it again. You are right. When us big ?guys happen to come across 
one of these "Oh S#&T" moments and tramp on the brakes. The rudder would 
probably be pretty close to neutral and not against the rudder stops. ?I might 
need to take a look at my ?paddles.?

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618 406 4705

Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4.

 Original message From: Jeff Scott via KRnet 
 Date:09/11/2014  10:48 AM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: 'KRnet'  Subject: Re: KR> 
rudder pedals 
The highest load on your rudder pedals will happen under hard braking if 
you have hydraulic toe brakes.  At that point, your pedals aren't going to be 
anywhere near the stops.  The left pedal isn't a problem so much as the right 
pedal because your feet are on the left side, but the right pedal is pulling 
against the rudder cable from the right seat pedal while you are romping on 
right rudder pedal in the left seat.  That's a lot of leverage against the 
joints in the right rudder pedal assembly.

-Jeff Scott
Los Alamos, NM


>
> I plan on adding stop blocks extending aft from the firewall to the pilot 
> side pedals for those moments when reaction happens faster than rational 
> thought.  This will add literally zero pounds.
> Enjoyed the conversations at the Gathering last week.
> Roger
> Owasso, OK
> 
> 
>  Paul Visk via KRnet  wrote: 
> > I'm thinking a quick fix would be to put  your rudder travel stops coming 
> > off the firewall and hitting the peddle under your foot. Making sure it 
> > doesn't affect your braking. By doing this, it will remove all excessive 
> > forces from the rudder control system.
> 
> Paul Visk
> Belleville Il
> 618 406 4705

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KR> rudder pedals

[Tony King]

My builders guide shows the rudder pedals as bent tube rather than welded.
 Has anyone built them this way?  What are the pros and cons?

TK

KR> rudder pedals

[rbaalman at cox.net]

I plan on adding stop blocks extending aft from the firewall to the pilot side 
pedals for those moments when reaction happens faster than rational thought.  
This will add literally zero pounds.
Enjoyed the conversations at the Gathering last week.
Roger
Owasso, OK


 Paul Visk via KRnet  wrote: 
> I'm thinking a quick fix would be to put ?your rudder travel stops coming off 
> the firewall and hitting the peddle under your foot. Making sure it doesn't 
> affect your braking. By doing this, it will remove all excessive forces from 
> the rudder control system.

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618 406 4705

KR> rudder pedals

[Larry Howell]

Just as a side note on bending. In our manufacturing business we've made 
hundreds of thousands of bends on tubing. We've owned and used Swiss made 
mandrel benders and regular hydraulic benders. The mandrel benders if adjusted 
properly maintain the roundness of the tubing as it's being bent. Without the 
internal mandrel adjusted to contact the inside walls of the tubing just behind 
the beginning point of the bend, the tubing wall will collapse inward on the 
inside radius which will cause the finished part to be slightly oval, rather 
than almost perfectly round, which weakens the tubing bend. A typical hydraulic 
bender like your local muffler shop uses does collapse the inside radius wall. 
The bottom line is all benders stretch the outside radius tubing wall. In other 
words a .035 wall tubing would be less than .035 after the bend was complete on 
the outside of the bend. On larger tubing like a lot of the tubing we bend 
daily, the steel becomes heated from the stretching and compressing forces 
applied by the bending dies. When bending larger tubing there is not enough 
heat to affect the metallurgic makeup quality as welding it will. The only 
reason I know the wall stretches and thins out is because many years back one 
of my suppliers delivered us a load of inferior steel tubing that during the 
bending process the steel stretched as far as it could then ripped open. I was 
shocked to see how thin the wall had become. Since then ever so often when we 
receive tubing I make a bend on it then cut through the center of the 90 degree 
bend to check the remaining wall thickness. As some would say "Who'd a Thunk 
That"
I am no expert on this subject but I'll bet I have personally made a minimum of 
100,000 bends on tubing in my short 45 years working in and owning 
manufacturing businesses. I can't count  how many bends have been made for me!

Larry H



> On Sep 10, 2014, at 9:21 PM, Mark Langford via KRnet  list.krnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Tony King wrote:
> 
>> My builders guide shows the rudder pedals as bent tube rather than welded.
>> Has anyone built them this way?  What are the pros and cons?
> 
> Bent would be stronger than welded, as there would be "no heat affected zone" 
> to weaken the parent material, as you get from welding.  A CNC bender would 
> make quick work of this job, but given the scale, it may be difficult to 
> recoup programming costs without buying a bunch of them.  Somebody in that 
> business...like nvAero, might just be up to the task.
> 
> I used .049" for mine, and have thoroughly abused them on landings by pushing 
> hard on both pedals out of pure apprehension!  But they have almost three 
> thousand landings on them, so .049" is sufficient if welded properly. See 
> http://www.n56ml.com/pedals/index.html for more on that...
> 
> Mark Langford
> ML at N56ML.com
> 

KR> rudder pedals

[Flesner]

At 09:38 PM 9/10/2014, you wrote:
>Take it to someone who builds custom headers and has a 'mandrel' bending
>machine.
+

I just can't imagine a setup 
(  http://www.n56ml.com/pedals/00012802.jpg ) or ( 
http://myplace.frontier.com/~flesner/brakes1.jpg ) this clean and 
functional using "bent" tubing.

Larry Flesner 

KR> rudder pedals

[Mark Wegmet]

Take it to someone who builds custom headers and has a 'mandrel' bending
machine. (check speed shops, high performance motorcycle shops, etc.) They
do 'one offs' all the time and it is pretty much time and materials (unless
you bring your own tubing). They might need to get a little creative because
of the smaller overall diameter tube, but it should be doable. 

JMHO

Mark W.
N952MW (res)

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark Langford
via KRnet
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 9:21 PM
To: KRnet
Subject: Re: KR> rudder pedals

Tony King wrote:

> My builders guide shows the rudder pedals as bent tube rather than welded.
> Has anyone built them this way?  What are the pros and cons?

Bent would be stronger than welded, as there would be "no heat affected
zone" to weaken the parent material, as you get from welding.  A CNC bender
would make quick work of this job, but given the scale, it may be difficult
to recoup programming costs without buying a bunch of them.  Somebody in
that business...like nvAero, might just be up to the task.

I used .049" for mine, and have thoroughly abused them on landings by
pushing hard on both pedals out of pure apprehension!  But they have almost
three thousand landings on them, so .049" is sufficient if welded properly. 
See http://www.n56ml.com/pedals/index.html for more on that...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com



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---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
http://www.avast.com

KR> rudder pedals

[Mark Langford]

Tony King wrote:

> My builders guide shows the rudder pedals as bent tube rather than welded.
> Has anyone built them this way?  What are the pros and cons?

Bent would be stronger than welded, as there would be "no heat affected 
zone" to weaken the parent material, as you get from welding.  A CNC bender 
would make quick work of this job, but given the scale, it may be difficult 
to recoup programming costs without buying a bunch of them.  Somebody in 
that business...like nvAero, might just be up to the task.

I used .049" for mine, and have thoroughly abused them on landings by 
pushing hard on both pedals out of pure apprehension!  But they have almost 
three thousand landings on them, so .049" is sufficient if welded properly. 
See http://www.n56ml.com/pedals/index.html for more on that...

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com

KR> rudder pedals

[Paul Visk]

I'm thinking a quick fix would be to put ?your rudder travel stops coming off 
the firewall and hitting the peddle under your foot. Making sure it doesn't 
affect your braking. By doing this, it will remove all excessive forces from 
the rudder control system.

Paul Visk
Belleville Il
618 406 4705

Sent on the new Sprint Network from my Samsung Galaxy S?4.

 Original message From: Flesner via KRnet 
 Date:09/10/2014  6:01 PM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: KRnet  Subject: KR> rudder 
pedals 
At 02:25 PM 9/10/2014, you wrote:
>What Sparky doesn't mention is that in trying to "keep it light," he lost
>his rudder because the tubing he and Murray used to fabricate the rudder
>pedals broke at a critical moment when he was caught by a gust on
>landing.
+++

I had my right pedal on the pilots side break several years ago and 
cautioned the KR community to reinforce the pedals with a gusset at 
the 90 degree weld on the horizontal to vertical tube.  Mine is the 
standard RR supplied pedals.  The right pedal is susceptible to the 
greatest amount of flexing from the pilots right pedal to the cable 
attach on the right side of the cockpit.

Larry Flesner 


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KR> rudder pedals

[Flesner]

At 05:52 PM 9/10/2014, you wrote:
>My builders guide shows the rudder pedals as bent tube rather than welded.
>  Has anyone built them this way?  What are the pros and cons?
>TK


Just my opinion but the welded (reinforced 90 degree corners)  makes 
for a cleaner looking installation.  IMHO...

Larry Flesner 

KR> rudder pedals

[sparky]

Yes 
, that is good Steve. Mine were .035.

KR> rudder pedals

[Steve G.]

The plans rudder pedals were .035. They were upgraded to .049 with hydraulic 
brakes but was still problematic. We make all of ours from . 058. Not much 
weight gain but much safer/ stronger. 

Steve Glover

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 10, 2014, at 15:01, Flesner via KRnet  wrote:
> 
> At 02:25 PM 9/10/2014, you wrote:
>> What Sparky doesn't mention is that in trying to "keep it light," he lost
>> his rudder because the tubing he and Murray used to fabricate the rudder
>> pedals broke at a critical moment when he was caught by a gust on
>> landing.
> +++
> 
> I had my right pedal on the pilots side break several years ago and cautioned 
> the KR community to reinforce the pedals with a gusset at the 90 degree weld 
> on the horizontal to vertical tube.  Mine is the standard RR supplied pedals. 
>  The right pedal is susceptible to the greatest amount of flexing from the 
> pilots right pedal to the cable attach on the right side of the cockpit.
> 
> Larry Flesner 
> 
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
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> options

KR> rudder pedals

[Flesner]

At 02:25 PM 9/10/2014, you wrote:
>What Sparky doesn't mention is that in trying to "keep it light," he lost
>his rudder because the tubing he and Murray used to fabricate the rudder
>pedals broke at a critical moment when he was caught by a gust on
>landing.
+++

I had my right pedal on the pilots side break several years ago and 
cautioned the KR community to reinforce the pedals with a gusset at 
the 90 degree weld on the horizontal to vertical tube.  Mine is the 
standard RR supplied pedals.  The right pedal is susceptible to the 
greatest amount of flexing from the pilots right pedal to the cable 
attach on the right side of the cockpit.

Larry Flesner 

KR> Rudder pedals

[Mark Langford via KRnet]

Dene Collett wrote:

> Can somebody who has their plans handy please give me the measurement of 
> the
> rudder pedals from the hinge point centre to the cable attach.

4", assuming you mean using hinges attached to the bottoms of the rudder 
bars.

Mark Langford
ML at N56ML.com
website at http://www.N56ML.com
 

KR> Rudder pedals

[Dene via KRnet]

Can somebody who has their plans handy please give me the measurement of the
rudder padals from the hinge poing centre to the cable attach. My plans are
not available right now so can't check myself.
Thanks
Dene

Regards
Dene Collett
www.denecollett.com

-Original Message-
From: KRnet [mailto:krnet-bounces at list.krnet.org] On Behalf Of MrKswildman .
via KRnet
Sent: 31 May, 2014 3:46 PM
To: krnet at list.krnet.org
Subject: KR> KR2 for sale.

Friends, my apologies, I forgot to post the link for the KR2 $3000.00 OBO.

http://www.krnet.org/krs/gzortman/

As for my medical, time will tell if I ever fly again.
Happy adventures/progress

Galen
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KR> Rudder pedals

[peter via KRnet]

What a cool idea! Could also be a pivoting bar like on the pietenpol. Peter

KR> Rudder pedals

[via KRnet]

Stirrups on the end of the cables.  Sorry, it is Friday.


 Original Message 
Subject: KR> Rudder pedals
From: via KRnet 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Fri, May 16, 2014 11:15 am
To: krnet at list.krnet.org,krnet-request at list.krnet.org


>
>My KR rudder pedals have no tubing, just cables running directly back to
>the rudder
>Mike Stirewalt
+++

What are the cables attached to and what transfers the movement of 
your feet to the cables?

Larry Flesner 

 ***

Until recently I could use the email address on the post to send someone
a message or a picture, as I wanted to do when reading this. Now I don't
know your address Larry. 

This new listserv procedure is not an improvement, IMHO. 

Mike
KSEE




The #1 Worst Carb Ever?
Click to Learn #1 Carb that Kills Your Blood Sugar (Don't Eat
This!)
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5376561b3f7b6561b13east02vuc

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change options

KR> Rudder pedals

[via KRnet]

On my S project I also beefed up the rudder horn.  The original design
had hand operated brakes and there was never much stress on the rudder
horn unless you just pushed on both rudder pedals for no reason.  Since
most of us are adding brakes now we put a lot more stress on the rudder
horn.  Not sure if anyone has ever broken one or not.

Brian Kraut


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: KR> Rudder pedals
From: Chris Gardner via KRnet 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Fri, May 16, 2014 8:42 am
To: KRnet 

Phil.
I would definitely recommend going up a few sizes on wall thickness
(.058) on the rudder tubes as I bent them twice trying to stop on a
short runway.
The right hand one is really the culprit not so much the left one due to
the torque you can apply when ttinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change
options

KR> Rudder pedals

[Chris Gardner via KRnet]

Phil.
I would definitely recommend going up a few sizes on wall thickness (.058) on 
the rudder tubes as I bent them twice trying to stop on a short runway.
The right hand one is really the culprit not so much the left one due to the 
torque you can apply when the adrenaline starts flowing and the end of the 
runway is near.
I actually ended up re-enforcing the lower corners with an internal tube to 
strengthen the weld and torque points to stop it from bending.
The rudder pedals were one of the surprising things that I did not expect to 
have any problems with yet it was an ongoing issue until the third set were 
made as above.
Contact me directly if you need more details.
Regards
Chris Gardiner
KR2S 235 hours

Sent from my iPad

> On May 15, 2014, at 4:47 PM, via KRnet  wrote:
> 
> Quoting Phill Hill:
> 
> "Hi guys, I'm working on my rudder pedals.  The 5/8 x .035" tubing seems
> a
> bit "springy" to me.  Did everyone else use this tubing for their rudder
> pedals or did you go up to .
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> see http://list.krnet.org/mailman/listinfo/krnet_list.krnet.org to change 
> options

KR> Rudder pedals

[via KRnet]

>
>My KR rudder pedals have no tubing, just cables running directly back to
>the rudder
>Mike Stirewalt
+++

What are the cables attached to and what transfers the movement of 
your feet to the cables?

Larry Flesner 

 ***

Until recently I could use the email address on the post to send someone
a message or a picture, as I wanted to do when reading this.  Now I don't
know your address Larry.  

This new listserv procedure is not an improvement, IMHO.  

Mike
KSEE




The #1 Worst Carb Ever?
Click to Learn #1 Carb that Kills Your Blood Sugar (Don't Eat This!)
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5376561b3f7b6561b13east02vuc

KR> Rudder pedals

[Mark Jones via KRnet]

KR> Rudder pedals

[Flesner via KRnet]

>
>My KR rudder pedals have no tubing, just cables running directly back to
>the rudder
>Mike Stirewalt
+++

What are the cables attached to and what transfers the movement of 
your feet to the cables?

Larry Flesner 

KR> Rudder pedals

[via KRnet]

Quoting Phill Hill:

"Hi guys, I'm working on my rudder pedals.  The 5/8 x .035" tubing seems
a
bit "springy" to me.  Did everyone else use this tubing for their rudder
pedals or did you go up to .049?"

Sparky lost his first KR to having the tubing called for in the plans.  A
gust caught him when flaring here at KSEE and in recovering broke the
rudder tubing which left him without rudder.  He ended up clipping
something stationary and breaking his left wing and pretty much messing
the plane up beyond repair.  So . . . don't skimp on the rudder tubing is
the lesson here.  

My KR rudder pedals have no tubing, just cables running directly back to
the rudder - just another of the nice design features that Ken Cottle had
in mind when building N335KC.

Mike Stirewalt
KSEE   

1 Odd trick Kills diabetes
100% scientifically-proven way to control blood sugar in 3 short weeks
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5375283c3e7f5283c74b9st01vuc

KR> Rudder pedals

[via KRnet]

Mine broke also.  My KR had at least 100 hours on it with the old
mechanical brakes and a pull cable.  I added hydraulic brakes on the
rudder pedals and I snapped a joint like Larry during my initial taxii
testing and almost took out some lights at the end of the runway.

What I did was to get some tubing the next size bigger (sized so the
5/8" tube would fit inside it) and I made some corner reinforcement
pieces about an inch long.  I split them longwise and sandwiched them
over the existing corner joints and welded.  I also added some
triangular corner gussets out of I think 1/8" material.

Brian Kraut
(I will fix my name in the mailing list at some point)

KR> Rudder pedals

[via KRnet]

KR> Rudder pedals

[Phillip Hill via KRnet]

I have some .049 scraps.  Noticeably stiffer.


On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 7:09 PM, ppaulvsk at aol.com wrote:

> Hi Phill,
> I made mine out of .049. I'll be home tonight after 10:30 and be up late.
> I should be home all day tomorrow and night if you like to come over and
> compare the two thicknesses. Give me a call .
>
> Paul Visk
> Belleville Il
> 618 406 4705
>
> Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Phillip Hill via KRnet" 
> Date: Mon, May 12, 2014 5:08 pm
> Subject: KR> Rudder pedals
> To: "KRnet" 
>
> Hi guys, I'm working on my rudder pedals.  The 5/8 x .035" tubing seems a
> bit "springy" to me.  Did everyone else use this tubing for their rudder
> pedals or did you go up to .049"?
>
> Phill Hill
> Collinsville, IL
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://tugantek.com/archmailv2-kr/search.
> To UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave at list.krnet.org
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> options
>

KR> Rudder pedals

[via KRnet]

>.  The 5/8 x .035" tubing seems a
>bit "springy" to me.  Did everyone else use this tubing for their rudder
>pedals or did you go up to .049"?
+++

The .035 tubing is o.k. but REINFORCE THE 90 DEGREE CORNERS on the 
side to side runs.   The right pedal on the pilot side is the 
critical one as the cable strain is transmitted through at least two 
of the corners.  My right pedal broke at the corner weld just above 
my right foot ( my pedals hang from the top 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32133949/IMG_8531.jpg )  I was 
lucky that it broke at Langford's airport on a visit.  When I pressed 
the right brake to park in front of Mark's hangar the entire assembly 
fell off on the floor.  Mark welled it back together and I flew it 
home. I remove the assembly on the next annual and reinforced the corners.

Larry Flesner 

KR> Rudder pedals

[ppaul...@aol.com via KRnet]

Hi Phill, 
I made mine out of .049. I'll be home tonight after 10:30 and be up late. I 
should be home all day tomorrow and night if you like to come over and compare 
the two thicknesses. Give me a call . 

Paul Visk  
Belleville Il
618 406 4705

Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!

- Reply message -
From: "Phillip Hill via KRnet" 
List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org
Date: Mon, May 12, 2014 5:08 pm
Subject: KR> Rudder pedals
To: "KRnet" 

Hi guys, I'm working on my rudder pedals.  The 5/8 x .035" tubing seems a
bit "springy" to me.  Did everyone else use this tubing for their rudder
pedals or did you go up to .049"?

Phill Hill
Collinsville, IL
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KR> Rudder pedals

[Phillip Hill via KRnet]

Hi guys, I'm working on my rudder pedals.  The 5/8 x .035" tubing seems a
bit "springy" to me.  Did everyone else use this tubing for their rudder
pedals or did you go up to .049"?

Phill Hill
Collinsville, IL

KR> Rudder pedals

[jon kimmel]

I appreciate the responses...here is a picture of what I have come up with
so far.  I flipped over the pedals on the assembly I had and added an
extension to the pedals to attach the cylinders to the pedal side.  I
spread the pedals apart wide enough to clear the cylinders ok.  I like the
idea of attaching a fixed part of the pedal and I think I will do that
before I fix it in place.

https://sites.google.com/site/mykr2stretch/
https://sites.google.com/site/mykr2stretch/parts-for-sale
On Jul 16, 2013 5:01 PM, "Larry&Sallie Flesner" 
wrote:

>
>  I wanted to hang the pedals because the floor of the
>> fuselage is uneven.  Has anyone hung pedals that have brake cylinders
>> attached?
>>
> ++**++**+
> I consider "hanging pedals" to be the preferred method.  There is nothing
> on the floor to interfere with me stretching my legs out between the
> pedals, all the way to the firewall in cruise.  Very comfy. :-)
>
> Some photos of my setup are on the web page  http://myplace.frontier.com/~
> **flesner/    Scroll down about
> half way.  Since those photos I've added an edge fence to the right pedal
> so I can tell where my right foot is located and not catch the two center
> pedals at the same time.
>
> I extended the firewall shelf back about 2 inches or so but the pedals
> could just as easily be mounted to suitable channel attached to existing
> firewall shelf.  You will want a fixed portion of the pedal and a hinged
> section for the brake.  Space them apart a bit so you don't drag the brake.
>  Additional spacing can be achieved by gluing a strip of half round wood
> trim to the bottom of the fixed pedal, thickness to be determined by
> spacing needed.
>
> Use two light weight springs attached to firewall, one on each side, to
> tension and center the cables.  Also, before installing the pedals, beef up
> the 90 degree corner welds with a small gusset,  especially the assembly
> for the right pedal.  That assembly flexes with every rudder input and the
> weld will brake eventually.  Don't ask me how I know.  You certainly don't
> want it to brake on takeoff or landing.  Mine broke on the ramp.  Lucky me.
>
> I probably have some additional photos I could e-mail direct if these
> don't answer your questions.  I also have a very rough hand drawing with
> some approx dimensions I could e-mail if someone contacts me off net a
> flesner at frontier.com
>
> Larry Flesner
>
>
> __**_
> Search the KRnet Archives at 
> http://tugantek.com/**archmailv2-kr/search
> .
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>  change options
>
-- next part --
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KR> Rudder pedals

[Larry&Sallie Flesner]

>I wanted to hang the pedals because the floor of the
>fuselage is uneven.  Has anyone hung pedals that have brake cylinders
>attached?
+
I consider "hanging pedals" to be the preferred method.  There is 
nothing on the floor to interfere with me stretching my legs out 
between the pedals, all the way to the firewall in cruise.  Very comfy. :-)

Some photos of my setup are on the web 
page  http://myplace.frontier.com/~flesner/   Scroll down about half 
way.  Since those photos I've added an edge fence to the right pedal 
so I can tell where my right foot is located and not catch the two 
center pedals at the same time.

I extended the firewall shelf back about 2 inches or so but the 
pedals could just as easily be mounted to suitable channel attached 
to existing firewall shelf.  You will want a fixed portion of the 
pedal and a hinged section for the brake.  Space them apart a bit so 
you don't drag the brake.  Additional spacing can be achieved by 
gluing a strip of half round wood trim to the bottom of the fixed 
pedal, thickness to be determined by spacing needed.

Use two light weight springs attached to firewall, one on each side, 
to tension and center the cables.  Also, before installing the 
pedals, beef up the 90 degree corner welds with a small 
gusset,  especially the assembly for the right pedal.  That assembly 
flexes with every rudder input and the weld will brake 
eventually.  Don't ask me how I know.  You certainly don't want it to 
brake on takeoff or landing.  Mine broke on the ramp.  Lucky me.

I probably have some additional photos I could e-mail direct if these 
don't answer your questions.  I also have a very rough hand drawing 
with some approx dimensions I could e-mail if someone contacts me off 
net a  flesner at frontier.com

Larry Flesner

KR> Rudder pedals

[smwood]

Jon,
I have hung my pedals from the "C" box at the fire wall with brake cylinders 
attached to the pedal arms similar to Larry Flesner's set up.  I had to 
re-work the installation when I found the KR pedals were too narrow for my 
shoe to fit between the rudder pedal arm and the master cylinders.  The 
brakes are toe actuated; so, keeping my heels on the floor, keeps the brakes 
off.  I put a small spring on each pedal arm to keep a little tension on the 
rudder cables; this also keeps the rudder centered with in the breakout 
range.  For the rudder, ring around cable tension (standard 40 pounds) is 
not needed on the KR.  For elevator and ailerons it is definitely needed for 
cable systems.  I have push rods to actuate the elevator and ailerons on my 
KR-2.

Sid Wood
Tri-gear KR-2 N6242
Mechanicsville, MD, USA

--- 
> I was working on rudder pedals and have come across a couple of things.
> The first is that I wanted to hang the pedals because the floor of the
> fuselage is uneven.  Has anyone hung pedals that have brake cylinders
> attached?  I think I have come up with a way that will work well and will
> send pictures when they are done but I want to other solutions to the same
> problem.  The other is cable tension..  it doesn't look like there is any
> cable tension.  This is less of an issue for hanging pedals, but I can see
> where this might be an issue for floor mounted pedals.  Has anybody had a
> problem with lack of tension in rudder pedals like the pedals falling
> forward in flight?
>
> https://sites.google.com/site/mykr2stretch/
> https://sites.google.com/site/mykr2stretch/parts-for-sale
>
>
> 

KR> Rudder pedals

[danrh at windstream.net]

Larry F. has a good method for hanging them and I am sure he will advise you on 
that.  For the tension, connect the system in a closed loop by connecting the 
outside pedal on both sides via a pulley attached to the firewall.  Use a 
turnbuckle to be able to adjust the tension.


On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 11:53 AM, jon kimmel  wrote: 

=
I was working on rudder pedals and have come across a couple of things. 
The first is that I wanted to hang the pedals because the floor of the 
fuselage is uneven.  Has anyone hung pedals that have brake cylinders 
attached?  I think I have come up with a way that will work well and will 
send pictures when they are done but I want to other solutions to the same 
problem.  The other is cable tension..  it doesn't look like there is any 
cable tension.  This is less of an issue for hanging pedals, but I can see 
where this might be an issue for floor mounted pedals.  Has anybody had a 
problem with lack of tension in rudder pedals like the pedals falling 
forward in flight? 

https://sites.google.com/site/mykr2stretch/ 
https://sites.google.com/site/mykr2stretch/parts-for-sale 
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options 

KR> Rudder pedals

[jon kimmel]

I was working on rudder pedals and have come across a couple of things.
The first is that I wanted to hang the pedals because the floor of the
fuselage is uneven.  Has anyone hung pedals that have brake cylinders
attached?  I think I have come up with a way that will work well and will
send pictures when they are done but I want to other solutions to the same
problem.  The other is cable tension..  it doesn't look like there is any
cable tension.  This is less of an issue for hanging pedals, but I can see
where this might be an issue for floor mounted pedals.  Has anybody had a
problem with lack of tension in rudder pedals like the pedals falling
forward in flight?

https://sites.google.com/site/mykr2stretch/
https://sites.google.com/site/mykr2stretch/parts-for-sale

KR> Rudder Pedals

[Steve Glover]

The original Rand pedals were made from .049 wall 4130. We make ours from .058 
as this was a common problem once the use of hydraulic brakes became more 
prevalent. 

Steve Glover 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

KR> rudder pedals

[Colin Rainey]

Having them hanging from behind the fuel tank I can tell you that I would have 
them mounted to the floor if it were me, just for easier maintenance. Their 
support was all in the way of the motor mounts. Even if I were not changing the 
engine, but just removing the motor mount due to breakage, or adding nose wheel 
(no way!) or modifying it for weight and balance, I would have a major ordeal 
due to the overhead mounting.

Some thoughts


Colin Rainey
First National Mortgage Sources
Lending Solutions in All 50 States
386-673-6814 office
407-739-0834 cell
brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net

KR> rudder pedals

[AVLEC]

KR heads
Those of you that have hung your rudder pedals from the shelf in stead of
mounting them on the floor. Were you happy with the height above the floor
that the horizontal made (the bit that your foot rests on)? I have a set of
pedals made to plans and have decided to hang them from the shelf to make
room for the nosewheel well and retract mechanism, but the horizontal
sections are now too low to the floor.
I was wondering what solutions you guys have come up with. I thought by
shortening the arm and keeping the cable attach point the same as the plans
call for (just closer to the horizontal piece now), it will just take a
little more movement at your foot to give the same movement at the rudder. I
can't see this posing any problems, can you? I suppose I could move the
cable attach point further out to compensate but there isn't enough length
left to compensate completely. By measurements I have taken, I will have to
shorten the pedals lever by about 60-70mm.
Regards
Dene Collett
KR2S builder
Freelance whisper assembler
South Africa
mailto: av...@telkomsa.net

KR> rudder pedals

[Larry Flesner]

At 03:12 AM 11/5/2005, you wrote:
>KR heads
>Those of you that have hung your rudder pedals from the shelf in stead of
>mounting them on the floor. Were you happy with the height above the floor
>that the horizontal made (the bit that your foot rests on)?
>Dene Collett
+

Check out:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/flesner/brakes1.jpg

I not only had enough for the pedals but  I extended the vertical
closer to the floor to mount the master cylinders.

You will note that I had to add a second layer of 1/4" ply to the
lower shelf to move the pedals back from the firewall to give
the clearance for the master cylinders.  There are a few more
pictures at the krnet.org site that I posted several days back.

Larry Flesner

KR> rudder pedals

[Larry Flesner]

>
> >Those of you that have hung your rudder pedals from the shelf in stead of
> >mounting them on the floor. Were you happy with the height above the floor
> >that the horizontal made (the bit that your foot rests on)?
> >Dene Collett
>+
>Check out:
>http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/flesner/brakes1.jpg
>Larry Flesner
>
>+++



One additional note on my brake setup.  I'm tall,  6' 4", and that puts my
feet on the pedals at a rather flat angle.  That caused me to drag the
brakes when I don't intend to even though I moved the fixed pedal
back from the toe-brake pedal with some washers.  My fix was to
add a piece of  wood trim called "half-round" to the top of each fixed
rudder pedal so I must roll my foot a bit more to actuate the toe-brake.
I think I used 1/2" thick stock and applied it with JB Weld.

I love my set-up and haven't had a single problem with it in the 180 hours
to date.I do wish I had 3 or 4 more inches of leg room though.

Larry Flesner

KR> rudder pedals

[Jerry Mahurin]

..net

Did my post to the net make the trip last nite.. It was comments on
our mag timing efforts Maybe I have a bad net
connection..

Someone please respond if they receive this.

On 11/5/05, Larry Flesner  wrote:
>
>
> >
> > >Those of you that have hung your rudder pedals from the shelf in stead
> of
> > >mounting them on the floor. Were you happy with the height above the
> floor
> > >that the horizontal made (the bit that your foot rests on)?
> > >Dene Collett
> >+
> >Check out:
> >http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/flesner/brakes1.jpg
> >Larry Flesner
> >
> >+++
>
>
>
> One additional note on my brake setup. I'm tall, 6' 4", and that puts my
> feet on the pedals at a rather flat angle. That caused me to drag the
> brakes when I don't intend to even though I moved the fixed pedal
> back from the toe-brake pedal with some washers. My fix was to
> add a piece of wood trim called "half-round" to the top of each fixed
> rudder pedal so I must roll my foot a bit more to actuate the toe-brake.
> I think I used 1/2" thick stock and applied it with JB Weld.
>
> I love my set-up and haven't had a single problem with it in the 180 hours
> to date. I do wish I had 3 or 4 more inches of leg room though.
>
> Larry Flesner
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>



--
Jerry Mahurin - aka - KRJerry
Lugoff, SC 29078

KR> Rudder pedals

[Colin Rainey]

So just add limiting straps or blocks or some other device to prevent movement 
further than full deflection each way, as others have described for the stick, 
and no more problem with losing the rudder.  And if I can taxi back with a tail 
wheel stuck to one side after doing for "donuts" on a taxiway with aircraft 
traffic behind me watching, I can land the plane with a deflected rudder!

A GM late model CS alternator puts out 80 to 120 amps, more than enough for any 
KR if the out put is cut in half with partial failure. When you deduct the 
weight of the Diehl generator, and add what the alternator and brackets weigh, 
you gained about 5 pounds, in an area where it doesn't hurt much, and tripled 
your power. I can transmit, run all lights, and have all accessories on 
including the CD player and still not max out the alternator.  I may add power 
windows just for fun. NAH!

Starting the engine conversion tomorrow.


Colin Rainey
brokerpilot9...@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.

KR> Rudder pedals

[Colin & Bev Rainey]

Adjustable rudder pedals can be accomplished in a closed loop, but it will be 
alittle elaborate, possibly get alittle heavy. To "steal" a design from the RV 
camp, you make and "S" bracket on each outboard edge of the rudder pedal where 
the attachment of the cable is, so that the cable passes through the S and 
continues on to the rest of the system. When adjusting the pedals, they tilt 
towards the rear of the plane, somewhat straightening the cable and allowing 
the pedals to slide along the cable length. Once in the desired position, the 
mount is secured by pins, and the pedal returned upright again, causing the 
cable to return back to the S configuration. This S gently bites or grabs the 
cable for normal actuation of the rudder, without the cable having to terminate 
at the pedal side mount.

My seats are 4 inches further forward then plans, bottom 4 inches forward of 
rear spar, and seat back 5 inches. The sitting position is alittle more 
straight up and down, giving better over the nose visibility. I am 5'5" and 
could not get to the rudder pedals, and still see over the nose. My dual sticks 
( thanks Brian Kraut ) are very comfortably right at my knee. You want your 
hand to be able to rest on your leg somewhat or knee or else you will have a 
BIG tendency to wobble the plane in flight since it is very sensitive at speed 
like any aircraft is. The main difference in the KR and other aircraft in my 
opinion at cruise speed is that the control forces are still very light 
compared to other aircraft, so it is just easier to cause over controlling, not 
that it is any MORE sensitive.  The benefit once you are used to it, is that 
the control effectiveness of the KR is truly all the way down to its stall 
speed, mine getting mushy and sloppy only with 5 mph of the actual stall.

Mounting the cut down prop today hopefully

Colin & Beverly Rainey
Apex Lending, Inc.
www.eloan2004cr.com
crai...@apexlending.com
407-323-6960

KR>rudder pedals

[Steve Glover]

I don't think Richard is going this year.  I couldn't get mine back in the
air in time and he didn't want to fly alone again.  Sorry guys.

Steve Glover
Rancho Santa Margarita, Ca

To: 
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: Re: KR>rudder pedals


Brian,

As I said before, I had a set up similar to yours, and it was great.  Come
to the gathering and watch Richard Shirley to see what you can do with
brakes if you get real good at it.  I used differential a lot on the ground.
 It makes turning on a spot, very easy.

Sometimes, a little touch on one or the other can really help.  Keep at it,
you are on the right track.

PS: Only my opinion, and you know what that is worth, but heel brakes suck.

N64KR

Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC

da...@kr-builder.org

See you in Red Oak - 2003

See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic
See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org
 ___
see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html

KR>rudder pedals

[Serge F. Vidal]

...Er... That is highly debatable. I once got a jammed rudder

-Original Message-
From: krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=ate-international@mylist.net
Err... That's debatable!
I once got a rudder failure (just read the archives for details), and I was
quite happy to still have brakes on landing, because the KR does not land
too short, and the brakes give you some sort of directional control as well.
With a KR, a reasonable crosswind can be handled without a rudder; a short,
narrow airstrip with a crosswind is hard to manage without brakes.

Serge Vidal
KR2 ZS-WEC
Tunis, Tunisia


[mailto:krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=ate-international@mylist.net]On
Behalf Of Dana Overall
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 11:46 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: Re: KR>rudder pedals


Brian, just a little food for thought.  I used those same cylinders on my
KR.  Short of fabricating new pedals incorporating a pivoting cylinder, I
chose to remove the cylinders from the assembly in an effort to allieve the
pressure on the rudder horns and the various tie down points as the cable
moved aft.  I had a pulley near the front that I wanted to relieve pressure
from also.  My sometimes convaluted thinking was at some point the rudder
system would fail before the braking system failed, opposite of your
situation so far though.  I thought I would rather have rudder than braking.
  The current system may work just fine, but I just didn't like putting,
what I considered, undue stress on the cable system which had nothing to do
with what I wanted to achieve...and that was braking, not rudder
pressure.


My solution at the time was to remove the cylinders and mount them with the
round foot pad pointing aft, between the two pedals.  I drilled two holes in
the firewall and mounted the brackets to hold the cylinders firewall
forward.  A byproduct of this,  I was able to remove brake lines..thus brake
fluid, from the fuselage.  I mounted them a little high so I could heel the
rudder pedals but get to the brakes with my toes.  Had to be a little pigeon
toed but it worked.  This way I was able to get full compression of the
piston, use of the rudder with no unnessesary demand on the calbes and had
very good braking.

Man, that got long winded when my initial reply was going be, "Hey Brian, I
mounted mine between the pedals.worked for me".:-)



Dana Overall
1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive

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KR>rudder pedals

[Dana Overall]

>Reply-To: serge.vi...@ate-international.com, KR builders and 
>pilots
>To: "'KR builders and pilots'" 
>Subject: RE: KR>rudder pedals
>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 10:25:00 +0100
>
>...Er... That is highly debatable. I once got a jammed rudder

My point in removing the rudder cable from the braking system was a broken 
rudder horn or snapped cable at the rudder pedal makes for a free trailing 
rudder.  Not a pretty sight with a taildragger...brakes or no brakes.


Dana Overall
1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive

_
Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. 
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

KR>rudder pedals

[Brian Kraut]

I was doing some high speed taxi testing today and almost took out the lights 
at the end of the runway when my left rudder pedal snapped off.  My pedals are 
.035" wall 5/8" steel tube per the plans.  They are made of pieces cut at a 45 
degree angle and welded instead of being bent like some are.  A weld with 
hardly any penetration that was also ground smooth by the original builder 
broke right by the pedal.  The extra stress of the hydraulic brake and pedal 
brought out a problem that never surfaced before it had brakes on the pedal.  
Are other people using the same size tubing with brakes on the pedals?

I will add half sections of 3/4" tubing over all the joints and reweld 
everything to keep it from happening again.  I also plan on shortening the arms 
that go to the master cylinders to give me more leverage with less pedal 
pressure.  Can anyone with effective brakes that don't require a lot of 
pressure tell me what distance your master cylinder attaches from the fulcrum 
point of the pedal?

You can see my current arrangement at http://www.engalt.com/flight1.htm
in the first picture.  The attach point of the master cylinder end is 1 3/8" 
above the center of the rotating point on the pedal and  about 1 5/8" back.  
The straight line distance is about 2 1/4" from the rotation point of the pedal 
to the master cylinder clevis end point.  I think I need to shorten that to 
closer to 1 1/2" to have effective braking without overloading the pedals or 
the rudder horn.  Comments? 

KR>rudder pedals

[Dan Heath]

Brian,

Your installation looks quite normal to me.  In fact, other that for the
actual pedal, it looks almost exactly like both KRs that I have been
associated with.  You may just have had a bad weld. 

N64KR

Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC

da...@kr-builder.org

See you in Red Oak - 2003

See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic
See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org

KR>rudder pedals

[Dana Overall]

Brian, just a little food for thought.  I used those same cylinders on my 
KR.  Short of fabricating new pedals incorporating a pivoting cylinder, I 
chose to remove the cylinders from the assembly in an effort to allieve the 
pressure on the rudder horns and the various tie down points as the cable 
moved aft.  I had a pulley near the front that I wanted to relieve pressure 
from also.  My sometimes convaluted thinking was at some point the rudder 
system would fail before the braking system failed, opposite of your 
situation so far though.  I thought I would rather have rudder than braking. 
  The current system may work just fine, but I just didn't like putting, 
what I considered, undue stress on the cable system which had nothing to do 
with what I wanted to achieve...and that was braking, not rudder 
pressure.


My solution at the time was to remove the cylinders and mount them with the 
round foot pad pointing aft, between the two pedals.  I drilled two holes in 
the firewall and mounted the brackets to hold the cylinders firewall 
forward.  A byproduct of this,  I was able to remove brake lines..thus brake 
fluid, from the fuselage.  I mounted them a little high so I could heel the 
rudder pedals but get to the brakes with my toes.  Had to be a little pigeon 
toed but it worked.  This way I was able to get full compression of the 
piston, use of the rudder with no unnessesary demand on the calbes and had 
very good braking.

Man, that got long winded when my initial reply was going be, "Hey Brian, I 
mounted mine between the pedals.worked for me".:-)



Dana Overall
1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive

_
Express yourself with MSN Messenger 6.0 -- download now! 
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KR>rudder pedals

[Brian Kraut]

I definitely had a bad weld and that was compounded by the original builder 
grinding down the bead to make it pretty, but my geometry does give me way more 
stress on the rudder cables than I want and not very effective braking.

---Original Message---
From: Dan Heath 
Sent: 09/08/03 05:29 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: Re: KR>rudder pedals

> 
> Brian,



Your installation looks quite normal to me.  In fact, other that for the
actual pedal, it looks almost exactly like both KRs that I have been
associated with.  You may just have had a bad weld. 



N64KR



Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC



da...@kr-builder.org



See you in Red Oak - 2003



See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic

See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org

 ___
see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html
> 

KR>rudder pedals

[Brian Kraut]

I think that heel brakes are a good alternative.  I had never used heel brakes 
before though so I really had no idea how easy they were to get to.  I also had 
no tailwheel experience when I first did the brakes and I thought that I would 
need quick and easy access to the brakes.  Now that I have some tailwheel time 
I realize that you pretty much want to stay off the brakes unless you are going 
straight and have everything under control.  Being too anxious on the brakes is 
more likely to cause a ground loop than to prevent one.

With what I know now I would seriously consider using hand brakes if I did it 
again.  My original thinking was that I always needed on hand on the stick and 
one on the throttle so that didn't leave a hand for the brakes.  Now I realize 
that when it is time to stop, the throttle should be at idle so that frees up 
my right hand for the brakes.  When I need differential braking while taxiing I 
should be going slow enough that I can let go of the stick and reach over with 
my left hand to the brakes.  I could of even saved myself $400 for the 
hydraulic brakes and left the cable operated drum brakes on and ran the cables 
to two levers off the forward spar.  The main reason for the hydraulic 
conversion was to put the brakes on the pedals.

Anyway, that is some food for thought for everyone else contemplating how to do 
theirs.

Now back to what I have now, I looked at Mark's site on the rudder pedal 
section and as usual found answers to all my original questions.  I printed his 
template and the pivot point of the pedal is only about 1 1/4" from the clevis 
attachment point on the master cylinder.  He is probably getting the same 
braking with half of the pedal force.  I am going to shorten my arm and I 
should have pretty effective brakes when I am done.
When the brakes are bled you really don't need much throw at all so you are 
better off with a short lever arm for more leverage.


---Original Message---
From: Dana Overall 
Sent: 09/08/03 06:46 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: Re: KR>rudder pedals

> 
> Brian, just a little food for thought.  I used those same cylinders on my 
KR.  Short of fabricating new pedals incorporating a pivoting cylinder, I 
chose to remove the cylinders from the assembly in an effort to allieve
the 
pressure on the rudder horns and the various tie down points as the cable 
moved aft.  I had a pulley near the front that I wanted to relieve
pressure 
from also.  My sometimes convaluted thinking was at some point the rudder 
system would fail before the braking system failed, opposite of your 
situation so far though.  I thought I would rather have rudder than
braking. 
  The current system may work just fine, but I just didn't like putting, 
what I considered, undue stress on the cable system which had nothing to
do 
with what I wanted to achieve...and that was braking, not rudder 
pressure.


My solution at the time was to remove the cylinders and mount them with
the 
round foot pad pointing aft, between the two pedals.  I drilled two holes
in 
the firewall and mounted the brackets to hold the cylinders firewall 
forward.  A byproduct of this,  I was able to remove brake lines..thus
brake 
fluid, from the fuselage.  I mounted them a little high so I could heel
the 
rudder pedals but get to the brakes with my toes.  Had to be a little
pigeon 
toed but it worked.  This way I was able to get full compression of the 
piston, use of the rudder with no unnessesary demand on the calbes and had 

very good braking.

Man, that got long winded when my initial reply was going be, "Hey Brian,
I 
mounted mine between the pedals.worked for me".:-)



Dana Overall
1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive

_
Express yourself with MSN Messenger 6.0 -- download now! 
http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_general


___
see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html
> 

KR>rudder pedals

[Dan Heath]

Brian,

As I said before, I had a set up similar to yours, and it was great.  Come
to the gathering and watch Richard Shirley to see what you can do with
brakes if you get real good at it.  I used differential a lot on the ground.
 It makes turning on a spot, very easy.

Sometimes, a little touch on one or the other can really help.  Keep at it,
you are on the right track. 

PS: Only my opinion, and you know what that is worth, but heel brakes suck.

N64KR

Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC

da...@kr-builder.org

See you in Red Oak - 2003

See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic
See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org

KR>rudder pedals

[Ron Freiberger]

You're solving non-problems.  A good weld would stand lots of "push", and
never grind off the weld bead for cosmetic purposes.

Ron Freiberger
mailto: rfreiber...@swfla.rr.com

 -Original Message-
From:   krnet-bounces+rfreiberger=swfla.rr@mylist.net
[mailto:krnet-bounces+rfreiberger=swfla.rr@mylist.net]  On Behalf Of
Brian Kraut
Sent:   Monday, September 08, 2003 2:05 PM
To: KR builders and pilots
Subject:    Re: Re: KR>rudder pedals

I think that heel brakes are a good alternative.  I had never used heel
brakes before though so I really had no idea how easy they were to get to.
I also had no tailwheel experience when I first did the brakes and I thought
that I would need quick and easy access to the brakes.  Now that I have some
tailwheel time I realize that you pretty much want to stay off the brakes
unless you are going straight and have everything under control.  Being too
anxious on the brakes is more likely to cause a ground loop than to prevent
one.

With what I know now I would seriously consider using hand brakes if I did
it again.  My original thinking was that I always needed on hand on the
stick and one on the throttle so that didn't leave a hand for the brakes.
Now I realize that when it is time to stop, the throttle should be at idle
so that frees up my right hand for the brakes.  When I need differential
braking while taxiing I should be going slow enough that I can let go of the
stick and reach over with my left hand to the brakes.  I could of even saved
myself $400 for the hydraulic brakes and left the cable operated drum brakes
on and ran the cables to two levers off the forward spar.  The main reason
for the hydraulic conversion was to put the brakes on the pedals.

Anyway, that is some food for thought for everyone else contemplating how to
do theirs.

Now back to what I have now, I looked at Mark's site on the rudder pedal
section and as usual found answers to all my original questions.  I printed
his template and the pivot point of the pedal is only about 1 1/4" from the
clevis attachment point on the master cylinder.  He is probably getting the
same braking with half of the pedal force.  I am going to shorten my arm and
I should have pretty effective brakes when I am done.
When the brakes are bled you really don't need much throw at all so you are
better off with a short lever arm for more leverage.


---Original Message---
From: Dana Overall 
Sent: 09/08/03 06:46 AM
To: kr...@mylist.net
Subject: Re: KR>rudder pedals

>
> Brian, just a little food for thought.  I used those same cylinders on my
KR.  Short of fabricating new pedals incorporating a pivoting cylinder, I
chose to remove the cylinders from the assembly in an effort to allieve
the
pressure on the rudder horns and the various tie down points as the cable
moved aft.  I had a pulley near the front that I wanted to relieve
pressure
from also.  My sometimes convaluted thinking was at some point the rudder
system would fail before the braking system failed, opposite of your
situation so far though.  I thought I would rather have rudder than
braking.
  The current system may work just fine, but I just didn't like putting,
what I considered, undue stress on the cable system which had nothing to
do
with what I wanted to achieve...and that was braking, not rudder
pressure.


My solution at the time was to remove the cylinders and mount them with
the
round foot pad pointing aft, between the two pedals.  I drilled two holes
in
the firewall and mounted the brackets to hold the cylinders firewall
forward.  A byproduct of this,  I was able to remove brake lines..thus
brake
fluid, from the fuselage.  I mounted them a little high so I could heel
the
rudder pedals but get to the brakes with my toes.  Had to be a little
pigeon
toed but it worked.  This way I was able to get full compression of the
piston, use of the rudder with no unnessesary demand on the calbes and had

very good braking.

Man, that got long winded when my initial reply was going be, "Hey Brian,
I
mounted mine between the pedals.worked for me".:-)



Dana Overall
1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider/fuselage, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive

_
Express yourself with MSN Messenger 6.0 -- download now!
http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_general


___
see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html
>

___
see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html

KR>rudder pedals

[Rich Seifert]

This might be a little late but I've seen it mentioned several times in the
old KR news letters.  You don't use brakes attached to stock RR rudder
pedals.  You are not the first and will not be the last to find this out the
hard way.  The stock RR rudder pedals are not strong enough for the extra
breaking force no matter how they are welded.  For that matter the rudder
horn is also a weak point depending on how much you had to grind away to
give proper rudder travel.  That is why I chose to use heel breaks.  Just
another reason the test period is tough.  Hope you didn't break anything
important.
Happy landings.
- Original Message -
From: "Brian Kraut" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 5:44 PM
Subject: KR>rudder pedals


> I was doing some high speed taxi testing today and almost took out the
lights at the end of the runway when my left rudder pedal snapped off.  My
pedals are .035" wall 5/8" steel tube per the plans.  They are made of
pieces cut at a 45 degree angle and welded instead of being bent like some
are.  A weld with hardly any penetration that was also ground smooth by the
original builder broke right by the pedal.  The extra stress of the
hydraulic brake and pedal brought out a problem that never surfaced before
it had brakes on the pedal.  Are other people using the same size tubing
with brakes on the pedals?
>
> I will add half sections of 3/4" tubing over all the joints and reweld
everything to keep it from happening again.  I also plan on shortening the
arms that go to the master cylinders to give me more leverage with less
pedal pressure.  Can anyone with effective brakes that don't require a lot
of pressure tell me what distance your master cylinder attaches from the
fulcrum point of the pedal?
>
> You can see my current arrangement at http://www.engalt.com/flight1.htm
> in the first picture.  The attach point of the master cylinder end is 1
3/8" above the center of the rotating point on the pedal and  about 1 5/8"
back.  The straight line distance is about 2 1/4" from the rotation point of
the pedal to the master cylinder clevis end point.  I think I need to
shorten that to closer to 1 1/2" to have effective braking without
overloading the pedals or the rudder horn.  Comments?
>
>