[lace] Plains Indian bobbins

[brido11]

Dear Spiders,

You guys are supposed be kind to me and what have you done? You have
stirred my interest so now I have to “find out more”  G to you all...(
smile)  BUT please keep sending me pictures urls references so that I can
“see” what types of bobbins were used.

I think we have at least one member that has researched “Indian Lace” at
an advanced degree level.

Many of you remember that in the past we quite few “List” investigations
that I tried to pull together and write up.

I think this could be another project because of my total ignorance in this
area.
The picture of one Indian Lace pillow I have been sent shows French / possibly
Sri Lankan bobbins (Doubtful).

*So I think that if I can, with your help, collect as many authentic
pictures of lace pillows with bobbins on them as reasonable, we may well be
able to do some analysis of the bobbins used.* Your contributions will be
welcome.  Many (many) thanks.


Also you lovely American Members, please forgive my slack language.  I
frequently shoot my mouth off before I think properly about what I am saying.
I humbly accept your gentle chiding of my slack writing and lack of American
History in my education.

 Sadly my American history comes via John Wayne! Oh, yes, Jean reminds me that
I seem to take a lot of notice of the delightful Victoria in the High
Chaparral series.  [ this is my poor attempt at trying to be funny, so do not
take me too seriously! But she may well be right about Victoria!]

Brian


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[lace] 2017 IOLI convention classes

[Anita Hansen]

The Information for the 2017 IOLI convention classes has been posted on the 
IOLI website.  https://internationalorganizationoflace.org/. Tour information 
will be added soon.  Registration begins February 15.  The information will 
also be in the next bulletin as well, but it is running late. Please pass along 
the word!  Hope to see many of you again this summer!
Anita Hansen
Cedar Rapids, Iowa

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[lace] Lace Guild Advent Calendar Competition Result

[Jean Leader]

Happy New Year!

We've pulled the winners of the Lace Guild Advent Calendar Competition out of 
the electronic hat and they are

1. Susan Vossier
2. Edwige Renaudin

Thank you to everyone who took part. We've put the answer on the Lace Guild 
website and we've also mounted a list of credits for the lace in the calendar.

Jean and David

www.laceguild.org

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Re: [lace] Bobbin Lace and Native Americans

[Jeriames]

The Piecework magazine several of you are remembering, is  probably 
May/June 2016 (the annual Lace issue for 2016).  It contains an  article:   
"The 
Talented Oneida Lacemakers".
 
At the end is a list of "further resources" on the subject.   Following are 
4 to keep in a file if you will have an on-going interest in  the subject:
 
Nov/Dec 1993 Piecework - "Sybil Carter's Legacy: Native American  Lace"  
 
Minnesota Historical Society, July 9, 2014:  
_www.mnopedia.org/group/sybil-carter-indian-lace-association_ 
(http://www.mnopedia.org/group/sybil-carter-indian-lace-association) 
 
This address had a security warning when searched:
_www.oneidanation.org/culture/page.aspx?id=2494_ 
(http://www.oneidanation.org/culture/page.aspx?id=2494)  
 
and
https://wisconsinobject.wordpress.com/2011/03/17/now-online-lace-from-oneida
-nation-museum 
 
Finally, if you search 1) Sybil Carter or 2) American Indian Lace, you  may 
find more.
 
It must be noted that none of these resources, as far as I can see,  offers 
much information about the equipment used.  The bobbins in some  photos 
appear to be Continentals.  They were probably made  locally by American 
Indians.
 
Jeri Ames in Maine USA
Lace and Embroidery Resource Center

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[lace] Flickr site

[Janice Blair]

Jeep credited me with helping but it is Sue Babbs that needs the credit.  I
appreciate all that is done for us on Arachne behind the scenes, so Thank You
Ladies.  You know who you are.Janice

 Janice Blair Murrieta, CA, www.jblace.com 

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[lace] Oops. Forgot to trim. Sorry

[devonthein]

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RE: [lace] Bobbin Lace and Native Americans

[devonthein]

Nicky writes: , would the Native Americans have been
using what are quite clearly English East Midlands bobbins? One of which
looks
to have been made by one of the Compton's.

There are a couple of photos of the Native American lacemakers,
http://collections.mnhs.org/cms/largerimage.php?irn=10378429=10423601;
return=
Also,
http://www.trc-leiden.nl/trc-needles/index.php/component/k2/item/9925-sybil-c
arter-indian-lace-association

They seem to be using Continental style bobbins in these photos. I wonder why
the dealer thinks that the bobbins were used by Native Americans? Is there
some provenance to indicate this? Or is it on the basis of the decoration?
Considering the legions of English Midland bobbins in England, the location of
these particular bobbins, and the home of a much, much larger bobbin lace
making heritage, why would these be associated with Native Americans?
Devon



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From: Nicky Hoewener-Townsend
Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 9:32 AM
To: Arachne
Subject: [lace] Bobbin Lace and Native Americans

Hello Brian & Carol
Interesting question and reply, clearly there is evidence of Native Americans
making lace, but perhaps more relevantly, would the Native Americans have
been
using what are quite clearly English East Midlands bobbins? One of which
looks
to have been made by one of the Compton's.

By the way, I do think the asking price of B#242 is utterly ridiculous.

Nicky in Suffolk Uk


Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2017 01:31:35 -0700
From: Carol >
Subject: [lace] Bobbin lace and Native Americans

Hello Brian,
Sorry, you will have to eat your words.  Sybil Carter, an Episcopal
missionary, is the name of the woman who began teaching bobbin lace to women
of the Ojibwe tribe in Minnesota. The women were taught how to make other
laces as well.  According to what I've read they made a very high quality
lace.  Minnesota is considered a Great Plains state.
There was an Indian School in Phoenix AZ and according to a display at the
Heard Museum in Phoenix they did teach bobbin lace to the girls at this
school
so bobbin lace was not confined to the Great Plains.  Some of the tribes in
the Arizona area would have been the Hopi, Papago, Tohono O'odham, Apache,
and
Chiricahua.
According to some Indian Affairs reports in 1901, in New York (state) there
were Native American women making bobbin lace.
Best regards,
Carol Melton
West of Phoenix, AZ USA

http://tinyurl.com/jvaccul 

http://www.mnopedia.org/group/sybil-carter-indian-lace-association


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[lace] RE: Beds tally question/Sybil Carter

[Helen Bell]

Janice:  sometimes you can leave a thread underneath the tally for it to sit
on, but that may not quite work if you've got 6 threads to use for the
tally.  You don't really say if the tally is slumping to one side in
particularly or just not 'behaving'.  I've found that I sometimes have to
take surplus twists off post rolling to help it sit a little better, and I
use the Gate style of rolled tally.

Feel free to email off list if you want to bounce ideas off me to help
problem solve.

Sybil Carter:  Can't say I recall seeing a recent article in PieceWork about
her (I could be wrong though), but I know there is an article in an early
issue of PieceWork about her.  I'd have to go look at the physical issues to
find it.  I have a full set of PW, so it's not hard if people really want  a
reference.  There are a few other docs around about her and her work.  The
Smithsonian Libraries have a document that appears to be authored by the
Sybil Carter Lace Association, and there was an article about her in 1980
(pre-PW era).

Cheers,
Helen, Duvall, WA

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[lace] Bobbin Lace and Native Americans

[Nicky Hoewener-Townsend]

Hello Brian & Carol
Interesting question and reply, clearly there is evidence of Native Americans
making lace, but perhaps more relevantly, would the Native Americans have been
using what are quite clearly English East Midlands bobbins? One of which looks
to have been made by one of the Compton's.

By the way, I do think the asking price of £242 is utterly ridiculous.

Nicky in Suffolk Uk


Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2017 01:31:35 -0700
From: Carol >
Subject: [lace] Bobbin lace and Native Americans

Hello Brian,
Sorry, you will have to eat your words.  Sybil Carter, an Episcopal
missionary, is the name of the woman who began teaching bobbin lace to women
of the Ojibwe tribe in Minnesota. The women were taught how to make other
laces as well.  According to what I've read they made a very high quality
lace.  Minnesota is considered a Great Plains state.
There was an Indian School in Phoenix AZ and according to a display at the
Heard Museum in Phoenix they did teach bobbin lace to the girls at this
school
so bobbin lace was not confined to the Great Plains.  Some of the tribes in
the Arizona area would have been the Hopi, Papago, Tohono O'odham, Apache,
and
Chiricahua.
According to some Indian Affairs reports in 1901, in New York (state) there
were Native American women making bobbin lace.
Best regards,
Carol Melton
West of Phoenix, AZ USA

http://tinyurl.com/jvaccul 

http://www.mnopedia.org/group/sybil-carter-indian-lace-association


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Re: [lace] Christmas Lace Star finished

[Clay Blackwell]

Beautiful!  I look forward to seeing it framed!

Clay

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 2, 2017, at 6:59 PM, Sue Babbs  wrote:
> 
> A while back I saw a lace comet with a Christmas scene in it on Facebook, and
> knew I wanted to make it.  I finally started it in September and didn’t
> manage to get it finished before western Christmas (12/25) but have finished
> it before Orthodox Christmas !  I still have to mount it in its frame, but
> I’ve posted some photos of it on the pillow on Flickr.
> 
> The pattern is by Renate Richter, and was apparently published in the German
> ANNA magazine No. 11/2008, and is now available from
> http://www.kloeppelstube-zwoenitz.de/schweif-mit-christigeburt.html
> 
> I varied the colours from the original as I had the whole range of Moravia
> linen in the house already, and added in some Moravia gold thread too!
> 
> Sue
> 
> suebabbs...@gmail.com
> 

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[lace] Christmas Comet

[Susan]

Sue, your work is stupendous!  Thanks for posting pics.  Love the sheep.  You 
didn't say what thread you used, but I have used one strand of boucle (from my 
Brazilian stash) & it works fairly well.  Sincerely, Susan Hottle USA 

Sent from my iPad

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[lace] Bobbin lace & Native Americans

[Susan]

To Brian's point, without provenance, is there anything about the eBay bobbins 
that distinguishes them from other bobbins of the period?  While we know that 
various parties taught Native Americans to make lace, how much do we actually 
know about the bobbins that were used?  Even with provenance, is there value 
added?  Always good to ask questions when investing $300 in previously-owned 
bobbins!  Brian, do let us know if the seller responds.  There could be an 
interesting story here or it could be another attempt to separate someone from 
his/her money.  Sincerely, Susan Hottle USA

Sent from my iPad

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[lace] Bobbins and the Plain Indians

[brido11]

I was careful to word my challenge to the seller around the issue of
provenance.  I am clearly glad that I did as they could have been used by the
Indians.

These bobbins were made around 1830 with one possibly made much later ( I will
need to study it carefully.)  How do these dates  match up with the mission
activity ... but as yet I have not read the articles linked in your helpful
replies.

I am convinced that the issue of provenance is becoming more important as
bobbin prices rise.

You have been more than helpful

Thank you.  I am at my computer and it is bedtime, but good reading for me
tomorrow.

Brian

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Re: [lace] "Antique Indian Plains Lace bobbins"

[Cynce Williams]

I don’t know about plains indians, but my sister saw some Indian made and
designed lace, I think she said it was in a museum in Wisconsin Dells. So that
would make it northeast forest Indians.

Cynthia


On Jan 2, 2017, at 11:29 PM,  
wrote:

> I have challenged the seller, but perhaps some of our American members can
> tell me if the Colonial missionaries taught lace to the Plains Indians?

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Re: [lace] Arachne Handbook etc

[Sue Duckles]

As Brenda states here, it's usually that you have a 'page' stored in your
browser, it's why computers store cookies, so that sites you visit regularly
aren't using up bandwidth unnecessarily by storing an image of that page.  If
you refresh the browser or reset your cookies then you should be able to open
the correct page.

Sue in a cool but bright East Yorkshire
My Tatty Blog http://pigminitatty.blogspot.co.uk/




On 3 Jan 2017, at 10:43, Brenda Paternoster wrote:

>>
>> The 'problem' I have is that the hyperlink to the flickr page brings up an
>> attached photograph of a young man at a table with several pots of yoghurt
> on

> Could the reason for the link not working properly be that the browser
needs
> refreshing - just click reload and it will clear anything that is in the
> cache.

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Re: [lace] Arachne Handbook etc

[Brenda Paternoster]

>
> The 'problem' I have is that the hyperlink to the flickr page brings up an
> attached photograph of a young man at a table with several pots of yoghurt
on
> it -

Like others the link works properly for me, in UK.
Could the reason for the link not working properly be that the browser needs
refreshing - just click reload and it will clear anything that is in the
cache.


Brenda in Allhallows
paternos...@appleshack.com
www.brendapaternoster.co.uk

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RE: [lace] Christmas Lace Star finished

[J-D Hammett]

Hi Sue and Fellow Arachnids,

Thank you very much for sharing your lovely work with us. The Christmas comet 
is beautiful as are the other pieces on your photo album and I so agree with 
you about colours in the dark ages. Bright colours were difficult to achieve 
and would only be worn by the rich. Not only that, the washing methods used 
would soon bash the colours out of the clothes as well as the fact that poor 
people would either have to make what they wore or had their clothes second 
hand if they were lucky (more likely 5th or 6th hand if they were very poor).

I would also like to thank Clay and Janice for hosting the site and keeping it 
running as well as Avital for keeping us on our toes. Can I send a donation via 
Paypal to help towards the costs?

Happy lace making,

Joepie.






Original message
>From : suebabbs...@gmail.com

  I still have to mount it in its frame, but
I’ve posted some photos of it on the pillow on Flickr.

The pattern is by Renate Richter, and was apparently published in the German
ANNA magazine No. 11/2008, and is now available from
http://www.kloeppelstube-zwoenitz.de/schweif-mit-christigeburt.html



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Odp: [lace] "Antique Indian Plains Lace bobbins"

[B Krbechek]

Brido11 wrote. . . perhaps some of our American members can

tell me if the Colonial missionaries taught lace to the Plains Indian

An Episcopal Missionary, Bishop Whipple, established several 'lace
schools' in

Minnesota among both the Dakota and Chippewa Indians.  The women who

taught in those schools taught the techniques which they knew--not only
one

specific technique.

Perhaps it would be a little more accurate to call them 'Christian'
missionaries.

Blanche

Now in Poland, but formerly from Minneapolis

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[lace] Bobbin lace and Native Americans

[Carol]

Hello Brian,
Sorry, you will have to eat your words.  Sybil Carter, an Episcopal
missionary, is the name of the woman who began teaching bobbin lace to women
of the Ojibwe tribe in Minnesota. The women were taught how to make other
laces as well.  According to what I've read they made a very high quality
lace.  Minnesota is considered a Great Plains state.
There was an Indian School in Phoenix AZ and according to a display at the
Heard Museum in Phoenix they did teach bobbin lace to the girls at this school
so bobbin lace was not confined to the Great Plains.  Some of the tribes in
the Arizona area would have been the Hopi, Papago, Tohono O'odham, Apache, and
Chiricahua.
According to some Indian Affairs reports in 1901, in New York (state) there
were Native American women making bobbin lace.
Best regards,
Carol Melton
West of Phoenix, AZ USA

http://tinyurl.com/jvaccul

http://www.mnopedia.org/group/sybil-carter-indian-lace-association

Hopefully the tiny URL works.

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Re: [lace] Christmas Lace Star finished

[Catherine Barley]

Oh Sue it's beautiful and I had no trouble clicking on the link either!  How I 
enjoyed seeing again some of the beautiful laces that you have made in the 
past.  Exquisite!

Catherine Barley on a cold and frosty morning here in the UK

Catherine Barley Needlelace
www.catherinebarley.com

Original message
>From : suebabbs...@gmail.com

  I still have to mount it in its frame, but
I’ve posted some photos of it on the pillow on Flickr.

The pattern is by Renate Richter, and was apparently published in the German
ANNA magazine No. 11/2008, and is now available from
http://www.kloeppelstube-zwoenitz.de/schweif-mit-christigeburt.html

















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