[lace] Queen Victoria's wedding dress
Dear Spiders Thank you all so much for your quick and highly informative replies to my query about Queen Victoria's dress. I shall send a polite/educational email to the company in question, quoting snippets from information received. Also I shall tell them that even Kate Middleton's wedding dress was made of machine made lace and not handmade and pass on the link that Brenda sent me. I think we can close the book on this one now but thank you all very much. I'm off to Waddesdon Manor in Buckinghamshire today to see the 'Lace 21' exhibition. Catherine Barley Henley-on-Thames UK Catherine Barley Needlelace www.catherinebarley.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Queen Victoria's wedding dress lace?
Several images of paintings and engravings as well as information here:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_dress_of_Queen_Victoria - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Queen Victoria's wedding dress lacce?
I can’t remember the source but I was of the impression that the lace was ordered in several batches, originally as coronation lace and then for the wedding dress etc. H J Yallop says “Equal obscurity surrounds the question of the number of lacemakers involved. A newspaper report (Besley’s Devonshire Chronical & Exeter News, 18 Feb 1840) states that the lace was made at Beer and that more than 200 persons were employed on it, and another report (Woolmer’s Exeter and Plymouth Gazette, 15 Feb 1840) states that about 150 of those partook of a celebration tea at the New Inn. However, the census of 1841 shows that the total number of lacemakers in Beer at the time was only 79 so it is evident that only part of the work could have been done there and that workers were drawn in from further afield. There were none in Seaton but there were 123 in Branscombe, so Beer and Branscombe together could have provided the necessary workforce…..” Yallop also wrote: “An apparent inconsistency in the payments to Miss Bidney is the absence of the £1000 alleged (Besley’s Devonshire Chronical & Exeter News, 18 Feb 1840) to have been the cost of the lace for Queen Victoria’s wedding dress. However the sum of £250 appears in the account for th equator ended 31 March 1840 and this sum would seem to represent the payment to her for this work. An estimate of the cost of producing this lace using reasonable assumptions as to working rate and average wages together with the known size of the lace would have been a plausible payment, so the £1000 may probably be dismissed as journalistic licence, which has, unfortunately, frequently been repeated imprint ever since.” Brenda who isn’t interested in producing 'meters' of all over lace! On 29 Apr 2014, at 18:29, Catherine Barley wrote: > Can of you please let me know how many lacemakers and how many months it took > them to make the lace for Queen Victoria's wedding dress. Brenda in Allhallows www.brendapaternoster.co.uk - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Queen Victoria's wedding dress lacce?
At one time I believe the price of a piece of lace was determined by the number of old shilling coins it required to completely cover the lace. Fast forward in time and work out how many credit cards would be needed to cover the lace and reckon £20 per card - more for very fine lace such as Honiton. Brenda On 29 Apr 2014, at 19:37, laceandb...@aol.com wrote: > When I get similar questions sent to me via The Lace Guild, after I have > explained about the level of skill needed therefore the cost per hour, and > the > number of hours it would take to make even a small piece of lace, Brenda in Allhallows www.brendapaternoster.co.uk - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Queen Victoria's wedding dress lace?
Dear Catherine, The May/June issue of PieceWork magazine has been delivered in America. I was surprised to see an article "Victoria's Passion - Queen Victoria's Unremitting Love of All Things Lace". There were things I had never known. Christopher John Brooke Phillips, the author (born in England, now in Spain), has used records that most English lace experts have never shared in their books. It says the Spitalfields silk dress was designed by Mary Bellans (the greatly-respected English historian, Kay Staniland, spells this Bettans - and calls her a dressmaker) and the lace was designed by William Dyce, Fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh, a member of the Royal Society of Arts and the Royal Academy of Arts, and head of the Government School of Design (later the Royal College of Art, London). He says it was to have been supplied from Brussels, but Victoria specified that it be manufactured in Great Britain and that it be Honiton lace. He goes on to say it was manufactured in several villages within a 40-mile radius of Honiton. It says the veil, 54 inches square, and the flounce 144 inches by 27 inches, were made in Branscombe and Beer, engaging 200 lace makers from March to November 1839. The Queen's representative, Miss Bidney, supervised and ensured timely completion, after which the designs were destroyed. He claims today the cost of the lace would exceed $1-million American dollars. He also says the Queen instructed that after death she be interred with her wedding veil draped around her face. So, here you have a most recent account. It does not include a Bibliography. People like Santina Levey, Kay Staniland and Elsie Luxton have written informed books about Queen Victoria's lace. In "Queen Victoria's Wedding Dress and Lace" by Staniland/Levey, 32 pages extracted from another publication "Costume" dated 1983, they give the depth of the flounce as 25 1/2 inches. They write about 4 pieces of lace still on the dress -- the flounce, bertha collar, and 2 sleeve flounces. These lace experts also say 200 lacemakers from March to November, but only at Beers. Their text quoted a newspaper of the time that "Her Majesty, with regard to whose dress so much and so many contradictions have taken place, was attired plainly, and with simple magnificence, in white satin, trimmed with most splendid laceround her head her Majesty wore a wreath of orange blossoms; but, contrary to all expectation, and in opposition to all prediction, neither veil nor scarf was permitted to interfere with the free sight of her Majesty's head, face, and neck". It was these two lace experts who first uncovered the name of the wedding lace designer, William Dyce, while writing this booklet. They found it in 1852 correspondence between Dyce and Sir Henry Cole (our old friend, the first director of the V&A Museum). A very large group painting, "The Marriage of Queen Victoria, 10 February 1840" by Sir George Hayter, a clear view of the Queen's face. There appears to be a veil attached at the back of her head. You can G**gle the artist's name to see it. A 1847 painting by Winterhalter, shows the Queen, and she wrote about the sitting. "I wearing my dear wedding veil", It is attached at the very back of her head, and there is a wreath of orange blossoms arranged like a crown - the same as at her wedding 7 years before. I favor the 1997 Museum of London book "In Royal Fashion - the Clothes of Princess Charlotte of Wales and Queen Victoria 1796-1901", by Kay Staniland. It has many photographs of actual clothing and the best-known portraits. There is also a 1988 book of good research, by Elsie Luxton and Yusai Fukuyama "Royal Honiton Lace". Luxton was the well-known lace expert with at least 6 Honiton books to her credit. I have seen these Royal laces more than once, and written about them to Arachne several times. Newbies may be able to find those other memos in Arachne archives. The last time I saw the gown at Kensington Palace, the flounce had been removed - too fragile to continue to be exhibited. They had put some disgusting net (modern scratchy kind) on the mannequin's head, which was confusing to non-lace people trying to relate to the concept of a Queen and Empress! Jeri Ames in Maine USA Lace and Embroidery Resource Center - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Queen Victoria's wedding dress lacce?
When I get similar questions sent to me via The Lace Guild, after I have explained about the level of skill needed therefore the cost per hour, and the number of hours it would take to make even a small piece of lace, I usually give them a link to the Cluny Lace Company in Derbyshire http://www.clunylace.com/index.htm At least that way we might keep them in the UK economy. A mention that some of this lace was used for the royal wedding dress probably makes it up market enough to please their egos. Jacquie in Lincolnshire - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
Re: [lace] Queen Victoria's wedding dress lacce?
I vote for 600 lacemakers and 9 months, but that's just a guess. I went online and found this quote: he English Honiton lace trim was made in Devon by more than 200 lace workers and took eight months to complete. http://theroyalpost.com/2011/11/22/queen-victorias-wedding-dress-february-10-1840/ Catherine Barley wrote: Can of you please let me know how many lacemakers and how many months it took them to make the lace for Queen Victoria's wedding dress. I do have this information but it would save me several hours of time ploughing my way through the many lace books on my shelves to find an accurate answer. The reason I ask is that I have today received an email from 'a large fashion company' and I laughed my socks off when I read it! ! See quote below! 'Dear Catherine I hope all is well with you. I work for a fashion company and we are sourcing for traditional lace made in UK and Ireland. I'd like to explore the idea of ordering or commissioning lace from you. We are primarily interested in lace trims and all-over lace by the meters (not a typing error by me) to make evening gowns. I love your work and I hope this is something you are interested in'. - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
RE: [lace] Queen Victoria's wedding dress lace?
Hi Cathy No I don't know how many months it took or how many, although, like you I will have the information in a book somewhere. I love the quote you have copied from them!! Do they really think we would be interested in making lace like this?I suspect that by the time we have made 'the lace trims and all over lace by the metre', the demand for them will have gone as lace will have gone out of fashion. Keep your reply polite!!! Am not interested in working 24/7 on a project like this, which is what I suspect most lacemakers will say.Got enough projects to do without adding to them. Maureen - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
[lace] Queen Victoria's wedding dress lacce?
Dear Spiders Can of you please let me know how many lacemakers and how many months it took them to make the lace for Queen Victoria's wedding dress. I do have this information but it would save me several hours of time ploughing my way through the many lace books on my shelves to find an accurate answer. The reason I ask is that I have today received an email from 'a large fashion company' and I laughed my socks off when I read it! One would have thought that perhaps they would have some knowledge as to the many, many hours it takes to make hand-made lace, particularly 'all-over lace by the metres to make evening gowns'. I hope to be able to give them some accurate information and a little education as to the production of hand made lace! See quote below! 'Dear Catherine I hope all is well with you. I work for a fashion company and we are sourcing for traditional lace made in UK and Ireland. I'd like to explore the idea of ordering or commissioning lace from you. We are primarily interested in lace trims and all-over lace by the meters (not a typing error by me) to make evening gowns. I love your work and I hope this is something you are interested in'. Anyone interested in working 24/7 to churn out these 'meters' of 'all-over lace'? Catherine Barley Henley-in-Thames UK Catherine Barley Needlelace www.catherinebarley.com - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacemaker/sets/
