Re: [lace] Color in lace

[Maria Greil]

Hello arachnians,

to the question why *black embroidery on shifts in Elizabethan times*: I
read in several English, German and Spanish books that
the black silk embroidery was introduced in England by the first wife of
Henry VIII who happened to be a Spaniard (Katherine of Aragon).
One of the reasons this was accepted may be: because '*the black dye did
not run'*.
If this is right, I do not know, but it could be.

Source: Janet Arnold: Patterns of Fashion 4, p. 8

Maria Greil
a German living in Spain



2018-04-03 20:13 GMT+02:00 Branwyn ni Druaidh :

> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 7:29 PM,  wrote:
>
> >   Linen shifts and shirts were the next to the skin layer, and were meant
> > to be washed, so white would have to be the color of choice.  Remember
> that
> > in Germany clothes have been boiled in recent memory.  How this explains
> > the black embroidery on shifts in Elizabethan times I have no idea.
> > Lyn from Lancaster, Pennsylvania , USA, but presently in hot, sunny dry
> > Arizona, hoping that the weather back home will be good by the time we
> get
> > home.
> >
> >
> > ​The same way we explain a Lamborghini or Bugatti.  Embroidered items,
> like lace, were very expensive; from the creating them ("true" blacks were
> extremely hard to do in Elizabethan times) to the keeping them nice (many
> old records show a fortune for the time spent on laundry services).
>
> Just like today, a person who can afford the Bugatti or Lamborghini can
> also afford the upkeep, and think that getting 5 gallons/liters per
> mile/kilometer is a worthwhile trade for the joy of owning the car that
> purrs, the person who could afford the highly embroidered undergarments
> also considered it a worthwhile trade for the ability to show off their
> riches and social status.
>
> Jennifer in Colorado​
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Per pale argent and purpure, two phoenixes counterchanged sable and argent
> each rising from flames proper.
>
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Re: [lace] color in lace-Virginia Churchill Bath

[Cynce Williams]

At that time I was a member of embroidery guilds and needle lace was
considered needle-work or embroidery.

Cynthia


On Apr 3, 2018, at 12:53 PM, DevonThein  wrote:

> published in 1974 by my side. (I am now
> reading these books as historical documents of the 1970s lace revival,
whereas
> I first read them as contemporary “how to” books.)

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Re: [lace] Color in lace

[Branwyn ni Druaidh]

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 7:29 PM,  wrote:

>   Linen shifts and shirts were the next to the skin layer, and were meant
> to be washed, so white would have to be the color of choice.  Remember that
> in Germany clothes have been boiled in recent memory.  How this explains
> the black embroidery on shifts in Elizabethan times I have no idea.
> Lyn from Lancaster, Pennsylvania , USA, but presently in hot, sunny dry
> Arizona, hoping that the weather back home will be good by the time we get
> home.
>
>
> ​The same way we explain a Lamborghini or Bugatti.  Embroidered items,
like lace, were very expensive; from the creating them ("true" blacks were
extremely hard to do in Elizabethan times) to the keeping them nice (many
old records show a fortune for the time spent on laundry services).

Just like today, a person who can afford the Bugatti or Lamborghini can
also afford the upkeep, and think that getting 5 gallons/liters per
mile/kilometer is a worthwhile trade for the joy of owning the car that
purrs, the person who could afford the highly embroidered undergarments
also considered it a worthwhile trade for the ability to show off their
riches and social status.

Jennifer in Colorado​





--
Per pale argent and purpure, two phoenixes counterchanged sable and argent
each rising from flames proper.

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Re: [lace] Color in lace - Bath's book

[Jeri Ames]

Every so often, I write a book review for an old book that is still relevant
and useful.  November 2016, I sent a review of Virginia Churchill Bath's 1974
LACE book to Arachne.  You can very easily locate it on the New England Lace
Group's web site by selecting Book Reviews from the menu on the left.  You
can see the colored lace of the book jacket, which is technically impossible
on Arachne.  It occurred to me that some of you might like to print the
review, and put in your copy of Bath's book.   
 
www.nelg.us 
 
Jeri Ames in Maine USA
Lace and Embroidery Resource Center

 
In a message dated 4/3/2018 1:20:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
d2one...@comcast.net writes:

 
 The original jacket cover on Lace by Virginia Churchill Bath (published 1974)
is of a fragment of colored lace flowers, identified in the book as from
Italy, 19th century. The author once remarked to a group of us that she
wondered why we were so awestruck when we saw the actual tiny piece in the
Chicago Art Institute's collection. but, of course, it was because at that
time we had not done lace in colors ourselves.

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RE: [lace] color in lace-Virginia Churchill Bath

[DevonThein]

Thanks to Doris for her observation about the cover of Virginia Churchill
Bath’s book. I have this book, published in 1974 by my side. (I am now
reading these books as historical documents of the 1970s lace revival, whereas
I first read them as contemporary “how to” books.)
Does anyone know how she learned needle lace? Did she have a teacher? Did she
use books from earlier lace revivals?
I can’t think of anyone else who has done large needle lace. Maybe I am
blanking out on that, but it seems like working large is more likely to be a
bobbin lace thing.
It is unfortunate that most of the photos in the book are in black and white.
I would like to see the pieces in color.
Devon

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[lace] color in lace

[DORIS O'NEILL]

The original jacket cover on Lace by Virginia Churchill Bath (published 1974) 
is of a fragment of colored  lace flowers, identified in the book as from 
Italy, 19th century.   The author once remarked to a group of us that she 
wondered why we were so awestruck when we saw the actual  tiny piece in the 
Chicago Art Institute's collection. but, of course, it was because at that time 
we had not done lace in colors ourselves.   

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RE: [lace] Color in lace

[David C Collyer]

Dear Friends

Dyes have not been known for fastness until recently

I vividly recall that back in 1979 at an auction in Melbourne my friend bought 
a beautiful bright scarlet velvet dress from the 1860s. We placed it gently in 
the back of her car and by the time we got home to Belgrave (about 90 minutes) 
the entire rear seat of the car was bright red!! Goes without saying that no 
water ever went near that dress!
David Downunder in Ballarat, AUS

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[lace] Color in lace

[lynrbailey]

Dyes have not been known for fastness until recently.  Linen shifts and shirts 
were the next to the skin layer, and were meant to be washed, so white would 
have to be the color of choice.  Remember that in Germany clothes have been 
boiled in recent memory.  How this explains the black embroidery on shifts in 
Elizabethan times I have no idea.  Nor the red silk worn by Puritans in places 
that could not be seen.  I did read that bit somewhere.  Notice also that there 
are no citations to sources in this post, so this is just my own thinking. It 
seems to be to be only sensible that color would not be put in lace that was to 
be washed regularly.  Color and metal for things that would not be washed would 
be fine.  I really don't think sumptuary laws had much to do with the color of 
lace, but I think that practical considerations were very important.  I suspect 
that even caps were subject to washing, although by the lady’s maid, not the 
laundress, and certainly handkerchiefs neede!
 d washing.  White lace would have been a more reliable investment.  Plus, if 
it were decorating something, white lace would match every color of silk, and 
colored lace would not.  So we find colors in fans, and, of course, in modern 
lace, 20th century lace, where color fastness was more reliable.  Just my two 
cents.

Lyn from Lancaster, Pennsylvania , USA, but presently in hot, sunny dry 
Arizona, hoping that the weather back home will be good by the time we get home.


"My email sends out an automatic  message. Arachne members,
please ignore it. I read your emails."

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Re: [lace] Color of lace - Long Term ID, Conservation

[Jeriames]

Dear Regina, (Sending to all, because may be of interest to  others.)
 
Since your question was about a lace collection in a history museum,  and 
not a major museum with the rarest of laces (or, so one might think), I  have 
a different idea about how you might make it easier for future people  
volunteering at that museum.  
 
Will you print out a list of all the entries in the system and place  that 
in actual reference binders?  I hope so, because computers  and software 
programs will change drastically.  Someone doing  research could attach a page 
of her findings to your inventory record of a  lace.  How about including a 
color guide section?  It will mean a  lot 100 years from now, provided the 
threads are protected from wood pulp  off-gassing, fading, discoloration from 
plastic, etc.  Thread  companies we take for granted might go out of 
business by  2115.
 
There are a lot of different thread manufacturers.  I keep floss  skeins of 
every DMC color, and some Anchor colors in my personal stash,  because they 
are most universal and very old manufacturers.  Skeins  are useful for 
comparing pre- and post- wet cleaning results, and for doing  minor repairs to 
lace and embroidery. This would be nice for any  museum textile collection to 
have, because the colors offered for sale  do change, with new being added 
from time-to-time.   
 
Keep labels with the skeins - including  the item  number,  Put a date on 
each page you make, and if the spare floss is  kept separately in an archival 
container, you need to hang a tiny tag on each  skein, with date of 
purchase.  You can then include the thread  information in the descriptions you 
are 
entering in the computer.  Example:  The original DMC White (Blanc Neige) 
is quite different from DMC  5200 Snow White (an optical white) - both 
purchased for classes  taught in 1996.  
 
DMC floss and color cards can be purchased.  My best quality  expensive one 
has actual threads wound on small pieces of card, and there  is a printed 
version that would be more challenging to use.  
 
The large private needlework supplier in the U.S., Nordic Needle,  is at 
1-800-433-4321.
_www.nordicneedle.com_ (http://www.nordicneedle.com) 
 
You need to have the actual threads, not what a computer printout  or 
screen looks like.  Textures of thread look different than paint on  a wall, 
photos, etc. and they pick up reflected color from whatever they  are closest 
to.  I would get 2 skeins of each color that lace  might be (put the spare in 
an approved archival container).  Color-for-color the dyed results of real 
thread are not the same  between DMC and Anchor.  They use the closest color 
match on  comparison/conversion charts.  The Nordic Needle paper catalog 
(you  can ask for one - it is free), gives an address for the Anchor colors, so 
it  is a good place to start looking for the numbers you  might want:
http://www.nordicneedle.com/ctgy/anchor.html 
 
Then, the Anchor flosses can be taken to WalMart, Michael's, etc. when you  
go there for DMC flosses.
 
Personally, I would make master color pages on non-wood pulp paper or  card 
for DMC and Anchor, using actual skeins of thread.  Retain the  number the 
manufacturer has assigned.  Be sure any master color page  has been dated.
 
When comparing floss to lace, an Ott-Lite with the TrueColor feature would  
be nice, if you can borrow one.  Choose a couple colors without  texture on 
which to lay the floss and lace under the light.
 
Before closing:  I am going through paper files and ephemera kept  for 50 
or more years.  The standard cream-colored filing folders are  terribly 
discolored and weak, indicating a wood pulp content in them or in  the dark 
olive-colored hanging folders that held them.  Everyone, be  careful with 
products made for temporary purposes.
 
Jeri Ames in Maine USA
Lace and Embroidery Resource Center

 
In a message dated 6/30/2015 5:40:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
lhal...@bytemeusa.com writes:

Regina
I think your choice of words is appropriate. I would  use
white = bleached,
cream = half bleached,
ecru = 1/4  bleached,
natural (or gray) = unbleached. For linen the term gray is  often used to
mean unbleached, although the color is like a dark  ecru.
Lorelei



In a message dated 6/30/2015 10:00:11 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
rmhar...@gmail.com writes:
 

I am about to begin to enter the information for each piece into  a software
program developed for museums called Past Perfect. I can still  make changes
in my descriptions as I am entering them, and what I need help  with is
deciding how to describe the color of the lace. White is of course  obvious,
but there are so many other shades. I know the threads we use are  often
named bleached or half-bleached or unbleached, but I don't think  those
terms would be appropriate for these finished pieces. Should I  distinguish
- should I say off white, cream, ecru, beige

[lace] color of lace

[Regina Haring]

Greetings, all -

For over a year I have been volunteering a few hours a week at a local
history museum which was bequeathed a lace collection of over 400 pieces of
lace, of varying kinds and quality.

It has been a most enjoyable and educational experience to catalog and
describe these pieces, more of which have turned out to be handmade than I
thought at first glance.

I am about to begin to enter the information for each piece into a software
program developed for museums called Past Perfect. I can still make changes
in my descriptions as I am entering them, and what I need help with is
deciding how to describe the color of the lace. White is of course obvious,
but there are so many other shades. I know the threads we use are often
named bleached or half-bleached or unbleached, but I don't think those
terms would be appropriate for these finished pieces. Should I distinguish
- should I say off white, cream, ecru, beige? Then there are a few
with a distinctly peachy quality. I'd like to know if there is a standard
way that these colors are described in museum terminology.

Any help and comments appreciated!

Regina Haring
Nanuet, NY

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Re: [lace] color of lace

[Linda Walton]

On 30/06/2015 14:59, Regina Haring wrote:

[snip]


I'd like to know if there is a standard
way that these colors are described in museum terminology.


My Buckinghamshire County Library Service has copies of the Methuen 
Handbook of Colour both on reference and loan.  You can see it here:-


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Methuen-Handbook-Colour-Ann-Mari-Kornerup/dp/0413334007/ref=sr_1_1/275-8405497-4350702?ie=UTF8qid=1435685608sr=8-1keywords=9780413334008

I understand that it is the standard reference for colours.  There is 
some technical information, but most of the book consists of small 
squares of all colours, (like a houshold paint chart), each with its own 
number.  That is, so far as I remember.  It is some years since I used 
it, but at that time it was on the recommendation of my sister, for whom 
it was part of the equipment of all laboratories, where she worked as a 
senior member of what was then the national forensic science service.  
Of course, that is nothing to do with museums, but it may still be 
useful if you can't find anything else.


Good luck, and I'm so pleased to learn that someone is doing such a 
worthwhile job.


Linda Walton, (in hot and sticky High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.).

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Re: [lace] color of lace

[Cynce Williams]

Or you might look into Pantone colors. Adobe Illustrator accesses them.

Cynthia


On Jun 30, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Linda Walton linda.wal...@cherryfield.me.uk 
wrote:

 On 30/06/2015 14:59, Regina Haring wrote:
 
 [snip]
 
 I'd like to know if there is a standard
 way that these colors are described in museum terminology.
 
 My Buckinghamshire County Library Service has copies of the Methuen Handbook 
 of Colour both on reference and loan.  You can see it here:-
 
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Methuen-Handbook-Colour-Ann-Mari-Kornerup/dp/0413334007/ref=sr_1_1/275-8405497-4350702?ie=UTF8qid=1435685608sr=8-1keywords=9780413334008
 
 I understand that it is the standard reference for colours.  There is some 
 technical information, but most of the book consists of small squares of all 
 colours, (like a houshold paint chart), each with its own number.  That is, 
 so far as I remember.  It is some years since I used it, but at that time it 
 was on the recommendation of my sister, for whom it was part of the equipment 
 of all laboratories, where she worked as a senior member of what was then the 
 national forensic science service.  Of course, that is nothing to do with 
 museums, but it may still be useful if you can't find anything else.
 
 Good luck, and I'm so pleased to learn that someone is doing such a 
 worthwhile job.
 
 Linda Walton, (in hot and sticky High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, U.K.).
 
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Re: [lace] color of lace

[Linda Walton]

On 30/06/2015 19:02, Cynce Williams wrote:

Or you might look into Pantone colors. Adobe Illustrator accesses them.
Be sure that your computer is showing colour accurately:  often they 
vary according to the settings of both supplier and receiver.  To see 
this, choose any famous painting and search on it, and you will find 
that it comes up in many variations.  This applies to photographs in 
catalogues and books, too.  They only confirm that you are both talking 
about the same work.


You can only be sure which one is correct if you can compare it with the 
original.


Linda in High Wycombe - still hot and sticky, it's going to be another 
sleepless night.


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[lace] color of lace

[Lorelei Halley]

Regina
I think your choice of words is appropriate. I would use
white = bleached,
cream = half bleached,
ecru = 1/4 bleached,
natural (or gray) = unbleached. For linen the term gray is often used to
mean unbleached, although the color is like a dark ecru.
Lorelei

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