leointeg installation feedback

[Ville M. Vainio]

I was trying to install the leo vscode plugin, and noted that it requires
leo installation directory etc.

If you have installed Leo with pip, this could all be optional, as you get
the directory by:

 python -c "import leo; import os; print(os.path.dirname(leo.__file__))"

(or somesuch)

Similarly, leo editor launch could be done by creating __main__.py in leo,
then you could launch leo by doing "python -m leo" without any knowledge
about directories

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Re: ENB: About mypy

[Ville M. Vainio]

FWIW, I noted that mypy is much better when run in --strict mode.
Otherwise, mypy will ignore some clear errors.

Also, there are some tools that can automate creating mypy annotations:
https://mypy.readthedocs.io/en/stable/existing_code.html#automate-annotation-of-legacy-code

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 2:51 PM Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> An update.
>
> > Imo, static type checking adds little to python. If you want proper type
> checking, try rust or other typed languages.
>
> That's a hasty verdict. mypy runs off of annotations, so it's unfair to
> expect mypy to be much help without them!
>
> The annotations of the types returned from functions and methods are
> likely to be the most important. Such annotations cut the Gordian knot of
> type inferences. Local inferences are straightforward; inferring return
> types is much harder.
>
> > Impatience is the clear enemy here. The work is mundane, but I must not
> introduce any new bugs!
>
> Yesterday I completed the annotations for leoGlobals.py so that mypy now
> passes launchLeo.py.
>
> The work was indeed tedious. Afterward, I thought that a wax-on script,
> the companion of wax-off, would have saved me much of the tedium. But wait.
> Adding annotations for returned types is much harder than adding
> annotations for arguments, and wax-on would not help.
>
> Oh my. As I write this, I think I remember that my old make_stub_files (
> *msb*) project calculates returned types based on pattern matches of the
> values of all "return" statements. *Aha!* Time to experiment with msb!
>
> *Summary*
>
> Aha! My old make_stub_files project may be more valuable than I
> remembered. I'll delay writing the wax-on script.
>
> My focus for Leo 6.4 is to complete Leo's mypy command. I'll also
> carefully fix any bugs that mypy reveals.
>
> Except for leoGlobals.pyi, I will create no new stub files for Leo 6.4. I
> will *not* add annotations to Leo's source files themselves.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: ENB: Rust, Leo and Python

[Ville M. Vainio]

Quick note: Rust use for desktop apps is pretty much non-existent.

Most interesting "excuse" to use Rust could be using something like
https://github.com/PyO3/, to be used for creating native modules for use
from python

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Re: Dark theme

[Ville M. Vainio]

Thanks, this is what I needed :)

On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 12:45 PM Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 1:58 AM Ville M. Vainio 
> wrote:
>
>> It requires contextual knowledge like "what is a theme file". The
>> question promises to answer the question about dark theme in particular, so
>> could add that to the example?
>>
>
> Good point. I have generalized the question and the answer:
> http://leoeditor.com/FAQ.html#how-do-i-enable-a-theme-leo-file
>
> Edward
>
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/CAMF8tS1LL-Z0JuLPW1VfMcmWcZVD-qiu9aUde18gYTAg6X2jjQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
> .
>

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Re: Dark theme

[Ville M. Vainio]

It requires contextual knowledge like "what is a theme file". The question
promises to answer the question about dark theme in particular, so could
add that to the example?

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 10:15 PM Edward K. Ream  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ville M. Vainio 
> wrote:
>
>> I have forgotten how to enable dark theme in Leo :).
>>
>> Googling brings up the FAQ:
>> https://leoeditor.com/FAQ.html#how-can-i-use-a-dark-theme-in-leo
>>
>> ...but it's horribly technical. Time to improve the FAQ or the enabling
>> process?
>>
>
> I'm finally getting around to this. I don't think this is too nerdy:
> QQQ
> To enable a theme .leo file, put the following setting in
> myLeoSettings.leo:
> @string theme-name = 
> QQQ
>
> True, the rest of the FAQ entry is tedious, but that's only for custom
> themes.
>
> Edward
>
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/CAMF8tS1mMp3oXJMAS5TE6NSk4iH0JR%2Bh1_4OR0jSPoTPtUXOdA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
> .
>

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Re: Dark theme

[Ville M. Vainio]

Thanks for the wishes, we are doing fine. Schools in .fi are closed so
"home schooling" my sons, and working from home

On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 7:15 PM Matt Wilkie  wrote:

> Hey,
>>
>
> Hi Ville! Nice to "see" you. I hope you and yours are doing well, being
> safe and healthy.
>
> -matt
>
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> 
> .
>

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Dark theme

[Ville M. Vainio]

Hey,

Somehow, I have forgetter how to enable dark theme in Leo :).

Googling brings up the FAQ:
https://leoeditor.com/FAQ.html#how-can-i-use-a-dark-theme-in-leo

...but it's horribly technical. Time to improve the FAQ or the enabling
process?

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Re: Keyboard hygiene

[Ville M. Vainio]

I am using these "lifestyle tweaks" with good success (ordered by increase
in difficulty, not necessarily priority ;):

- Mapped caps lock to ctrl

- Started using laptop touchpad instead of mouse. Touchpad is a bit slower,
but way more ergonomic. If I had a choice, I would pick macbook touchpad
over anything available for PC

- Made my own dvorak-derived keyboard layout:
https://github.com/vivainio/coder-dvorak

On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 6:33 PM, john lunzer  wrote:

> Remapping your keyboard can also give you additional options, for example
> a quite popular one is to remap Caps Lock to Ctrl.
>
> Additionally you can consider computer foot pedals
>  which
> can activate modifier keys. There are a lot of different brands out there
> but this one seemed to be high quality.
>
> I had grand plans to buy computer foot pedals but I began to utilize a
> complex keyboard remapping which has done most of what I've wanted.
>
> There are lots of options!
>
> On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 10:19:39 AM UTC-4, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>>
>> Recent pains in my left thumb have gotten me to re-evaluate how I type.
>> My practice is improving. Rest and icing are also helping. The following
>> cause me pain:
>>
>> 1. Holding down the alt or ctrl key with left thumb.  I have often done
>> this when my right hand is hitting arrow keys.
>>
>> 2. Hitting *both* ctrl *and *C/V/X (cut/copy/paste) keys with left hand.
>> This is an ancient habit, hard to break. The *thumb* hits ctrl key, bent
>> under. This is a recipe for disaster.
>>
>> Imo, one must *never* hit a modifier key and a plain key with the same
>> hand. Hitting the alt & control keys simultaneously is ok, as long as the
>> thumb hits neither key. In fact, I prefer never to use either thumb on a
>> modifier key.
>>
>> There is now enough discomfort that the old habits are becoming obvious.
>> Rather than trying to "break" the old habits, which is likely impossible,
>> the plan is to form *new* habits:
>>
>> 1. *Stop*. Become fully aware of the pain.
>> 2. *Notice*. Evaluate what caused the pain.
>> 3. *Retrain*. Do the action several times the correct way, perhaps
>> experimenting with new finger combinations.
>>
>> Another part of the strategy is to avoid substituting the mouse for
>> keystrokes.  If anything, over-using the mouse is even more dangerous than
>> bad keyboard practice.
>>
>> I tend to fall into bad keyboard and mouse habits when impatient.  The
>> recent pains are a gift, in some sense, urging me to relax, slow down, and
>> do the right things.
>>
>> Edward
>>
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Re: Code Academy: real Leo programmers use git

[Ville M. Vainio]

Note that github provides a direct way tn edit files on the website.

E.g. go to
https://github.com/leo-editor/snippets/blob/master/examples/rst-tutorial/myDocument.html.txt

and click the pen icon.

This also works for people without commit rights; you can edit a file and
create a pull request without ever installing git :).

On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 10:10 PM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor <
leo-editor@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Git *users* can create gists, like https://gist.github.com/tbnorth/6165576
>
> But https://github.com/leo-editor is a GitHub organization, not user, so
> it doesn't have gists, instead I made a separate repo. all members of
> leo-editor can push to: https://github.com/leo-editor/snippets
> I'd vote for that.  There's more junk, um, I mean invaluable and
> educational examples :-),  laying around at the top level than there should
> be, but as long it doesn't get worse and people (myself included) remember
> to put things in subfolders going forward, I think it will be ok.
>
> Does that seem like a workable option to you?  If it needed to look
> prettier, we could use github pages to make an index or something.
>
> BTW, anyone know how to stop google-groups hiding my email address (
> terry_n_br...@yahoo.com)? I can't find the setting.
>
> Cheers -Terry
>
> --
> *From:* Largo84 
> *To:* leo-editor 
> *Sent:* Friday, January 29, 2016 1:57 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Code Academy: real Leo programmers use git
>
> This is all great stuff. Yes, been using Git for a while now to stay
> current on the code base. I've often wondered if there's also an easier way
> to share code snippets and scripts. There's Leo wiki
>  that would be ideal for that, but it
> hasn't been edited in over 4 years. Is that something that can be revived?
>
> Rob...
>
> On Friday, January 29, 2016 at 11:37:59 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> If you are going to do interesting work on Leo and its plugins, you should
> be using Leo’s latest sources 
> from GitHub  using git
> . Once git is installed, getting the latest version
> of Leo is easy:
>
> git clone https://github.com/leo-editor/ leo-editor.git
> 
>
> Once you have done that, you can get the latest sources with:
>
> git pull
>
> Git is great in tracking history and reverting unwanted changes. And it
> has many other benefits.
>
> I've been wondering when to say this, but recent developments have forced
> my hand.  Today, as the result of our Code Academy discussion, I have added
> the p.u property and a keyword arg to c.editCommands. deleteNodeIcons.  If
> you don't use git you will quickly get out of the loop.
>
> Although git is unique behind the scenes, using git is very similar to
> using bzr or hg or any other SCCS.  To change Leo, you add files, you
> commit files, and you push files.  That's about it.
>
> I'll be happy to answer any git-related questions here.  Again, I
> *strongly* encourage all would-be Leo programmers to use Leo's git repo.
>
> Edward
>
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Re: My last lecture. Part 1: Why Leo is noteworthy

[Ville M. Vainio]

On single-letter names: .h and .b are "archetypal" properties of a
position. Think i,j and k in for-loops. There are only a couple of
properties like that. Longer names, while helping in the first few minutes
of investigating the API, would soon become tedious "nagging".

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 5:29 PM, Marcel Franke <
kugelfischtemp...@googlemail.com> wrote:

>
> Edward K. Ream wrote:
>
> Leo's API consists primarily of *generators*, such as c.all_positions(),
 p.self_and_subtree(), etc. and *properties*, such as p.b, p.h, p.gnx
 and p.v.u.

>>>
>>> One thing I always wondered about...is there a reason why Leos API is so
>>> unpythonic?
>>>
>>
>> ​How are they unpythonic?​
>>
>> ​How would you improve, say:
>>
>> for p in c.all_positions():
>> print(p.h)
>>
>
>
>
> for position in commander.find(all=True):
>
> print(position.headline)
>
>
> or
>
>
> for position in commander.walk('/**'):
>
> print(position.headline)
>
>
> or
>
>
> print('\n'.join(node for node in document.walk()))
>
> #Ok, kidding ;)
>
>
> Well, going for that simple example:
>
>
> Single-letter-names for objects and attributes is very bad style.
>
>
> Then there is the design-flaw to use a new method for every single
> edge-case of a general functionality,
>
> instead of using arguments and not poisoning the namespace.
>
>
> The position-object for example. has at least 12(!) methods for the simple
> task of walking
>
> the tree, not even including the methods from the commander-object
>
> Thats 11 more then neccessary, and 10 more then comfort demand.
>
>
> And then there are the broken generators like all_positions which always
> return the same object
>
> and just changes it's internal state.
>
> Personally I must say it's a pain to work with Leo's API, because there is
> many unpredictable behaviour,
> it's unneccessary time-consuming to find something and it's not as
> powerful as it could be.
> For me it's even even faster to use my own more pythonic API which only
> wraps some methods,
> then to always dig through that mountain.
>
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Re: ENB: Looking for my next big project

[Ville M. Vainio]

You may want to read up on Hindley-Milner type infererence. Here seems to
be a Python implementation:

http://smallshire.org.uk/sufficientlysmall/2010/04/11/a-hindley-milner-type-inference-implementation-in-python/

Apparently MyPy has type inference as well.

On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Edward K. Ream  wrote:

> This is an Engineering Notebook post.  Feel free to ignore.
>
> TL;DR: I'm looking for a problem that a) seems impossible and b) hasn't
> been significantly studied.  The problem I am thinking of involves
> gathering data in new ways to help devs understand programs (their own or
> other people's).
>
> = Introduction and motivation
>
> The original title of this post was going to be, "how to we know when
> something is impossible?"
>
> History is full of examples of seemingly impossible inventions.  In Leo's
> history, @clean is the best example.  For many years I had thought about
> the problem of doing without sentinels, and each time I looked at the
> problem I saw that sentinels were essential.  I finally saw that Leo can
> get the sentinels *from the outline itself*, thereby bypassing sentinels
> in external files.
>
> So proofs that something is impossible must be approached with skepticism.
>
> Contrary to popular opinion, however, it *is* sometimes possible to prove
> that something is impossible.  For example, Galois paved the way for the
> proof that for every *n* > 4, there exist polynomials of degree *n* which
> are not solvable by radicals
> .
> The immediate result is that some geometric constructions are impossible
> with just compass and straight edge.
>
> Let's turn to workarounds to practical impossibilities.  The traveling
> salesman problem
>  is known to
> be NP-hard, so there is good reason to suppose that no general, efficient,
> *perfect* solution will ever be found.  Indeed, given the actual answer
> to a particular NP-hard problem, it is often *still* NP-hard to verify
> that the answer correct!
>
> But consider this quote from the wikipedia page:
>
> "Even though the [traveling salesman] problem is computationally
> difficult, a large number of heuristics and exact methods are known, so
> that some instances with tens of thousands of cities can be solved
> completely and even problems with millions of cities can be approximated
> within a small fraction of 1%".
>
> So in engineering and mathematics there is a gray area surrounding the
> notion of impossibility.  Yes, something may be impossible, strictly
> speaking, but often that impossibility doesn't matter.
>
> = Translating Python to C: an impossible solved problem
>
> I am convinced that this problem, like the traveling salesman problem, is
> impossible *in some sense*.  Indeed, naive approaches to turning Python
> into C are almost certainly misguided foolishness.  Among the many gotchas
> that naive approaches fail to appreciate are the subtle semantic difference
> between Python objects and libraries and the (supposedly) corresponding C
> objects and libraries.  So a naive Python-to-C translator just isn't likely
> to happen.
>
> But just as with the traveling salesman problem, excellent workarounds are
> available now, and these workarounds are only going to get better.  cython
> allows construction of C extensions for Python using
> Python 3.x syntax.  The overview page
>  discusses the
> details.  Most importantly, from my point of view, optional type
> annotations can make cython programs almost arbitrarily efficient. I expect
> that good work is coming regarding type inference in Python.
>
> In short, converting Python code to C is *already* solved for many
> practical cases, and advances in type inference for Python will only
> improve matters.
>
> A Leo script that could contribute a bit to this general problem.  This
> script would convert naming conventions to type annotations.  I think this
> could be useful in a number of ways.  But this is a smallish project, no
> more than a week or so, I would guess.
>
> = A big, unsolved, unnoticed problem
>
> Over the last few years I have tried in vain to understand how various
> type-checking/inference algorithms have worked.  In particular, pylint and
> rope do excellent (if limited) type inference.  But even though I have
> studied the code as imported in Leo, have have not been able really to
> grasp what is going on. Neither pylint nor rope document the theory of
> operation. It seems that I need better tools to understand the code.
>
> Naturally, the tools would have to be tailored to each individual app.
> Understanding complex code is never going to be routine.
>
> So that's it.  Imo, all juicy projects must come from a real, urgently
> felt, need.  Understanding Python programs is a real need.  I'm not 

Re: Increasing the instant appeal of Leo

[Ville M. Vainio]

Sublime doesn't support manual completion here - it just shows a
screenful of possible completions automatically on every keystroke, like
here:

http://www.sublimetext.com/screenshots/alpha_goto_anything2_large.png



On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 12:15 AM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor 
leo-editor@googlegroups.com wrote:

 On Sun, 23 Aug 2015 13:50:14 -0700 (PDT)
 john lunzer lun...@gmail.com wrote:

   4. see if we could replace minibuffer with ctrl+shift+p like thing
   from sublime/atom/vscode. Much more impressive and modern.
 
  To terry, this is how sublime works. I agree that the pop-up style is
  more modern but to a greater point, the minibuffer 99% of the time
  is just taking up screen real estate and not doing anything. There is
  not a lot of reason to have it there on the screen unless somebody
  wants it there on the screen

 So the easy way is just to style the parent widget hidden when it
 doesn't have focus... but then it would bump the layout whenever it was
 un-hidden.  Might be worth testing that, I'd like that approach if it
 wasn't too disruptive.  If it is too disruptive, then pop-up would make
 sense, just have to make sure you get all the special Leo-ness in the
 editing of the line (completion etc.).

 Cheers -Terry

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Increasing the instant appeal of Leo

[Ville M. Vainio]

There is another thread on focusing on marketing instead of feature
development. I agree on this (esp. for features like vim-bindings, which
would likely be misplacement of limited development time, as vim users will
always be using vim and the result would be bad anyway).

There are some ideas to increase instant appeal, which plays directly to
marketing (first step is to get people try leo, the second step is to make
them spend more than 15 minutes in it).

1. Make a dark theme the default, and ensure it looks good on Windows, OSX
and Linux. Make font sizes etc like those in atom, sublime text, Visual
Studio Code and Firefox Developer edition (just examples to reflect what I
consider modern look and feel).

Screenshots:

http://cdn.ghacks.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/atom-editor-windows.jpg

http://www.johnpapa.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/vsc.png

http://www.cmstricks.com/assets/images/tutorials/soho-part1/template-tutorial%20(20).jpg

(we could even adjust tab look and feel to match this look!)

2. .ini or .json based configuration (instead of .leo format), again like
in Sublime Text or VSCode. Current system requires too much Leo buy-in
already

3. See if we could make tabs for node editors (richt click on node - open
as tab). This is in line with how people use e.g. browsers these days. Like
stickynote but for tabs, that is

4. see if we could replace minibuffer with ctrl+shift+p like thing from
sublime/atom/vscode. Much more impressive and modern.

5. likewise, ctrl+p for quick finding nodes based on fuzzy matching on
headlines (like subliwe fuzzy matches file names on ctrl+p)

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Re: 3 important projects at once

[Ville M. Vainio]

As far as static typing for python goes, mypy seems to be the GvR-endorsed
solution these days: http://mypy-lang.org/




On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 3:24 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am now working on three projects simultaneously: Leo 5.1 (@clean), Leo
 as an external diff, and a web-based Leo viewer.

 @clean is the most important.  It promises a large increase in the number
 of people that use Leo. That will increase the usefulness of having a
 web-based viewer for Leo.  @clean also promises to make Leo a real choice
 for developers. That will make Leo as an external diff program more
 valuable.

 Edward

 P.S.  I have also started on a fourth project, a re-imagining of the
 static type checking project.  I think of it as a static *design* checker.
 The present plan is to replace almost all type inference with something
 simpler. This must take a back seat now to the other projects, but I'll be
 working on the project from time to time.

 EKR

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Re: Problems using IPython code. Less problems using IPython ideas

[Ville M. Vainio]

Hey, I saw that! ;-).

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 8:07 PM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor 
leo-editor@googlegroups.com wrote:

 On Fri, 30 Jan 2015 08:58:49 -0800 (PST)
 Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

  **Important**:  Leo does *exactly* the same thing, but only for
  certain known values, like c and g, and for certain standard
  conventional names, such as s, s1 and s2 standing for strings, etc.

 Leo autocompletion also works with the vs-eval command.

 I have vs-eval bound to Alt-A, so I type

 import pipes
 pipes.Ctrl-Space

 and the Log says No completions

 but if I select the import line and hit Alt-A, or just put the cursor
 at the start of the line and hit Alt-A twice, then
 pipes.Ctrl-Space gives me completion for that module.

 vs-last and vs-last-pretty will put the output of the last vs-eval into
 the body.

 vs-eval, vs-last and vs-last-pretty are in the valuespace
 plugin, but not related to the mind bending complexity (just kidding,
 Ville ;-) of the rest of that module, rather they're there because it
 made sense to do their evaluations in the same namespace that
 valuespace uses.  And it saved making another plugin for some fairly
 simple commands, although I thing vs-eval has a bunch of heuristics to
 work out what vs-last-* should show for multi-line code.

 Cheers -Terry

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Re: Leo *for* web apps vs. Leo *as* a web app

[Ville M. Vainio]

Leo already works with ipython, but I'm aware we are talking about ipython
notebook here ;).

I think I did an experiment on this back in the day - it would involve
launching ipython kernel (that hosts all the data, and that is used as a
backend for the web frontend) in the Leo process. This would give ipython
notebook access to Leo's dom, and Leo could access the cells in ipython
notebook.


On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 10:45 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com
wrote:

 ​​
 ​On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Brad brad.reisf...@gmail.com wrote:

 I understand. My thinking was that if you decide to move ahead, the
 IPython (and more generally Jupyter) developers have gone through the
 careful process (and pain) of designing an integrated, extensible system
 (tornado, zmq, json, javascript) that may be of use in a more general
 context. This might give the project a head start instead of having to
 discover a workable system based on lower-level components.


 ​The biggest win-win that I can see would be to insinuate Leo somehow
 into IPython.  Let's call this project **ipLeo**: Leo in the IPython world.

 It would be a win for IPython because it could give IPython Leo's DOM,
 scripting, outlines and clones.

 It would be a win for Leo because IPython is really big: it continues to
 get favorable mention in places like Nature and Science.  And IPython is
 attracting big bucks for development.  It's a popular, powerful and
 expanding platform.

 ipLeo may be feasible, especially with the jupyter architecture.  The
 fundamental rule, from my point of view, is **no fork of IPython**.  We can
 change IPython during prototyping and development of ipLeo, but eventually
 we will want to be able to offer some kind of IPython plugin that does
 ipLeo.

 This may be the new direction we have been looking for.  I see neither a
 need to contact the IPython team nor to ask their permission for us to
 start investigating the possibilities.

 Your comments please, Amigos.

 Edward

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Re: Needed: a new javascript importer

[Ville M. Vainio]

Disclosure: I'm mostly a javascript developer these days :).

You generally do not *want* to create new nodes for anonymous functions.
It's not atypical to do e.g. for-loops with anymous functions.

We are using ES6 (that I highly recommend, old style javascript looks
pretty horrible if you are used to Python), and we do for-loops like this:

_.each(mylist, (el) = {
  console.log(el)
})

Here, you would want everything in single node.

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Re: Needed: a new javascript importer

[Ville M. Vainio]

We are using Traceur and Browserify (through es6ify)
https://github.com/thlorenz/es6ify

This combo brings lots of sanity like import to JS development.

Pretty much everything we want to use is available in Traceur. The missing
stuff is something we can live well without (like proxies).

This is a good overview on what you get (most important ones are modules,
fat arrow, destructuring, spreads, classes)

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 You generally do not *want* to create new nodes for anonymous functions.
 It's not atypical to do e.g. for-loops with anonymous functions.


 ​Thanks for this.  One less urgent project ;-)​


 We are using ES6 (that I highly recommend, old style javascript looks
 pretty horrible if you are used to Python),


 ​I haven't been paying attention to es6 until now.  This compatibility
 diagram comes up first when googling es6:
 http://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es6/

 From the diagram it appears that only compilers such as traceur support
 classes.  What tools do you use?  What assumptions do you make about
 availability of features?

 Edward

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Re: Needed: a new javascript importer

[Ville M. Vainio]

...and, should you choose to explore this path, I would be willing to set
up the development environment obviously :)

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.com wrote:

 Forgot link, I meant this:

 https://github.com/lukehoban/es6features

 On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 We are using Traceur and Browserify (through es6ify)
 https://github.com/thlorenz/es6ify

 This combo brings lots of sanity like import to JS development.

 Pretty much everything we want to use is available in Traceur. The
 missing stuff is something we can live well without (like proxies).

 This is a good overview on what you get (most important ones are modules,
 fat arrow, destructuring, spreads, classes)

 On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 You generally do not *want* to create new nodes for anonymous
 functions. It's not atypical to do e.g. for-loops with anonymous functions.


 ​Thanks for this.  One less urgent project ;-)​


 We are using ES6 (that I highly recommend, old style javascript looks
 pretty horrible if you are used to Python),


 ​I haven't been paying attention to es6 until now.  This compatibility
 diagram comes up first when googling es6:
 http://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es6/

 From the diagram it appears that only compilers such as traceur support
 classes.  What tools do you use?  What assumptions do you make about
 availability of features?

 Edward

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Re: Needed: a new javascript importer

[Ville M. Vainio]

Forgot link, I meant this:

https://github.com/lukehoban/es6features

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.com wrote:

 We are using Traceur and Browserify (through es6ify)
 https://github.com/thlorenz/es6ify

 This combo brings lots of sanity like import to JS development.

 Pretty much everything we want to use is available in Traceur. The missing
 stuff is something we can live well without (like proxies).

 This is a good overview on what you get (most important ones are modules,
 fat arrow, destructuring, spreads, classes)

 On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 9:43 AM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.com
 wrote:


 You generally do not *want* to create new nodes for anonymous functions.
 It's not atypical to do e.g. for-loops with anonymous functions.


 ​Thanks for this.  One less urgent project ;-)​


 We are using ES6 (that I highly recommend, old style javascript looks
 pretty horrible if you are used to Python),


 ​I haven't been paying attention to es6 until now.  This compatibility
 diagram comes up first when googling es6:
 http://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es6/

 From the diagram it appears that only compilers such as traceur support
 classes.  What tools do you use?  What assumptions do you make about
 availability of features?

 Edward

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Re: Is it time to develope using Python 3K?

[Ville M. Vainio]

We'll see if/when that starts happening. If Python 2 is what companies use
in production, their developers will build also new packages to prioritize
python 2.

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 9:03 PM, Kent Tenney kten...@gmail.com wrote:

  Anyway inevitably there will be packages not available for python3,
 (legacy)

 and newer packages will not be available for python2
 (because they leverage py3 features)


 On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 9:28 AM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor
 leo-editor@googlegroups.com wrote:
  This thread has inspired me to get things working in Python3, i.e. Leo
  plus all the plugins I use.
 
  I have PyQt5 installed in Python3, so this includes fixing Qt4/5 stuff.
 
  Notes so far:
 
  paramiko is a package for Ubuntu 14.04 for 2.7 but not 3, no big deal,
  pip3 can install it.
 
  I've been loading the deceased plugin 'qtframecommands' from the .pyc
  file for who knows how long.  :-)
 
  The livecode plugin uses https://pypi.python.org/pypi/meta, but this
  happens
 
leo-editor:0 sudo pip3 install meta
Downloading/unpacking meta
  Downloading meta-0.4.1.tar.gz (45kB): 45kB downloaded
  Running setup.py (path:/tmp/pip_build_root/meta/setup.py) egg_info
for package meta
Installing collected packages: meta
  Running setup.py install for meta
 
Installing depyc script to /usr/local/bin
  File
 
  /usr/local/lib/python3.4/dist-packages/meta/bytecodetools/print_code.py,
line 12 print instr ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
 
  odd that pip thinks it's available for py3.
 
  I think Leo's livecode plugin would be much better without the meta
  dependency, it's being used for ast object to source code conversion,
  maybe livecode could adequately guess at the code from the input code.
  I.e. given input of d[2][3:7] = 6*7 meta handles the recreation of
  the d[2][3:7] part on the output side, I think.
 
  Anyway inevitably there will be packages not available for python3,
  not a surprise.
 
  Cheers -Terry
 
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Re: Is it time to develope using Python 3K?

[Ville M. Vainio]

PIP is routinely used with python 2 - in fact a lot of modules in PyPI is
Python 2 only.

You can get it here: https://pip.pypa.io/en/latest/installing.html

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:



 On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 9:31:32 AM UTC-6, Edward K. Ream wrote:

 On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 8:05 AM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 FWIW, I'm pretty pessimistic about Python 3 at this point. Python 2
 seems to be good enough for most people.


 ​I am not real optimistic about Python 3 myself.  ​

 ​As Kent says, more and more packages are being ported.  But Guido has
 recently promised to support Python 2K until at least 2020 (a change from
 2015).  This indicates that all is not going well.

 My guess is that there are some big Python 2K shops that still have no
 real notion about how they are going to transition to 3K.  It doesn't
 matter how many people *have* made the transition as long as there are
 important players who haven't or can't.


 This is a complex topic.  Here are some further thoughts:

 Guido himself clearly believed (and probably still believes) that Python 2
 is *not* good enough.

 Otoh, Guido's remarks in recent PyCon keynote speeches indicate that he
 will never again attempt such a radical break with existing code.  He seems
 somewhat unhappy with the transition to Python 3.  That may be an
 understatement. Or not.  He has reasons to put a brave face on things.

 Kent's remark that more and more packages are being ported to Python 3 is
 more important than I originally acknowledged.  The available packages, not
 the problems of big shops, are what most people care about, or should care
 about.

 In some ways, the big shops don't matter all that much.  They can take
 care of themselves and they can always stick with Python 2.7.  When (not
 if) Python 2.7 is no longer supported, big shops can start paying the price
 that the core Python developers are now paying in supporting the Python 2
 code base.

 Finally, there are a growing list of reasons why Python 3 is simply better
 than Python 2.  I actually would *not* say that Python 3's support for
 unicode is one of those reasons, but that's debatable.  What is not
 debatable is that Python 3 has cool new features and modules that Python
 2.8 will *never* have:

 - My favorite is pip install, the killer feature of Python 3.4.

 Yesterday I did pip install ipython[all] and everything Just
 Worked(tm).  This is the first time I have *ever* managed to install
 tornado on Windows, and thus the first time that ipython notebook has
 ever worked on windows.

 - The important asyncio module
 https://docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio.html is Python 3 only.

 Yes, there is a backport to Python 2:
 https://pypi.python.org/pypi/trollius

 - Function annotations, https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3107/, will
 never be part of Python 2 unless they are supported in Python 2.8.

 - Similarly, the yield from syntax, pep 380,
 https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0380/, will never be part of Python 2.

 You can quibble about how important these features are (except, pip :-),
 but there is no doubt that Python 2 is a dead end.

 Edward

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Re: Is it time to develope using Python 3K?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Further thought - it's still unclear which one is the dead end, python 2 or
python 3.

There is very little motivation still to prioritize python 3 when python 2
has all the users and developers - everyone ensures their stuff works on
python 2, and python 3 is voluntary extra.

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:



 On Wednesday, January 14, 2015 at 9:31:32 AM UTC-6, Edward K. Ream wrote:

 On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 8:05 AM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 FWIW, I'm pretty pessimistic about Python 3 at this point. Python 2
 seems to be good enough for most people.


 ​I am not real optimistic about Python 3 myself.  ​

 ​As Kent says, more and more packages are being ported.  But Guido has
 recently promised to support Python 2K until at least 2020 (a change from
 2015).  This indicates that all is not going well.

 My guess is that there are some big Python 2K shops that still have no
 real notion about how they are going to transition to 3K.  It doesn't
 matter how many people *have* made the transition as long as there are
 important players who haven't or can't.


 This is a complex topic.  Here are some further thoughts:

 Guido himself clearly believed (and probably still believes) that Python 2
 is *not* good enough.

 Otoh, Guido's remarks in recent PyCon keynote speeches indicate that he
 will never again attempt such a radical break with existing code.  He seems
 somewhat unhappy with the transition to Python 3.  That may be an
 understatement. Or not.  He has reasons to put a brave face on things.

 Kent's remark that more and more packages are being ported to Python 3 is
 more important than I originally acknowledged.  The available packages, not
 the problems of big shops, are what most people care about, or should care
 about.

 In some ways, the big shops don't matter all that much.  They can take
 care of themselves and they can always stick with Python 2.7.  When (not
 if) Python 2.7 is no longer supported, big shops can start paying the price
 that the core Python developers are now paying in supporting the Python 2
 code base.

 Finally, there are a growing list of reasons why Python 3 is simply better
 than Python 2.  I actually would *not* say that Python 3's support for
 unicode is one of those reasons, but that's debatable.  What is not
 debatable is that Python 3 has cool new features and modules that Python
 2.8 will *never* have:

 - My favorite is pip install, the killer feature of Python 3.4.

 Yesterday I did pip install ipython[all] and everything Just
 Worked(tm).  This is the first time I have *ever* managed to install
 tornado on Windows, and thus the first time that ipython notebook has
 ever worked on windows.

 - The important asyncio module
 https://docs.python.org/3/library/asyncio.html is Python 3 only.

 Yes, there is a backport to Python 2:
 https://pypi.python.org/pypi/trollius

 - Function annotations, https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3107/, will
 never be part of Python 2 unless they are supported in Python 2.8.

 - Similarly, the yield from syntax, pep 380,
 https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0380/, will never be part of Python 2.

 You can quibble about how important these features are (except, pip :-),
 but there is no doubt that Python 2 is a dead end.

 Edward

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Re: Is it time to develope using Python 3K?

[Ville M. Vainio]

FWIW, I'm pretty pessimistic about Python 3 at this point. Python 2 seems
to be good enough for most people.

On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Kent Tenney kten...@gmail.com wrote:

 I recently tried to switch to v3, as I remember, I was thwarted
 by problems having to do with PyQT in a virtualenv.

 I currently run Leo in a virtualenv, I think I linked to system
 files to make PyQT work, but I don't remember how I did it.

 So, I'd like a virtualenv with 3.x Python to run Leo from, but
 since 'pip install PyQT' doesn't work, I gave up.

 On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 9:54 AM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  I would like to have most (all?) Leo developers develop and test using
 3.x.
  Would that be a problem for anyone?
 
  Guido has stated that there will be no version 2.8 of Python:
  http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0404/ (Hahaha: Pep 404)
  although some disagree:
  http://blog.startifact.com/posts/the-call-of-python-28.html
  Considering that Guido is the BDFL, I rate the odds of Python 2.8 at less
  that 1%.
 
  I expect to see people using Python 2.x for a long time, but Python 3.x
  should be available for anyone who wants it, and not just on
 PythonAnywhere.
 
  Afaik, it is now possible to develop Leo using Python 3K exclusively.  In
  particular, Python 3.4 supports pip, a big step forward.  For example,
 the
  following work::
 
  pip install docutils
  pip install pylint
  pip install sphinx
 
  But pip does not appear able to install pyqt (I may be mistaken).
 
  Anyway, docutils, pylint and sphinx work fine (on Windows) with Python
 3K.
 
  Your comments, please.
 
  Edward
 
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How did I get dark theme again?

[Ville M. Vainio]

I am finally getting around to trying to get leo looking right on my new
computer, but can't find the old way to configure the dark theme
(leo-dark-0). What do I need to do to get it? It's not in settings.leo
anymore.

On related note, on Windows the font is way too large compared to other
apps, so it may be good idea to adjust the default configuration a bit - in
the spirit of first impressions matter, and configuration being hard.

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Re: How did I get dark theme again?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Thanks. this works. leo-dark-0 seems to be working at least - the others I
tried need to be updated to new theme system, so  I guess it's time to roll
up my sleeves... (I want leo-dark-1).

On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Davy Cottet cottet.d...@gmail.com wrote:

 - To get the leo-dark-0, which is more a solarized dark theme, just copy
 the node leo_dark theme 0 from file leo/config/themes.leo to your
 @settings.

 Be sure that you have no other @data qt-gui-plugin-style-sheet node in
 @settings.

 To get a darker theme see here :
 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/leo-editor/j9oibfegjE8/Xaxt8pz89MUJ

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Weird: Ctrl-Shift-x does not work w/ caps lock as additional control

[Ville M. Vainio]

I have followed roughly these instructions to make caps lock an additional
control:

http://www.kodiva.com/post/swapping-caps-lock-and-control-keys

Interesting side effect is that capslock + shift + x does not work!
Ctrl-shift-x works normally.

No particular action needed on this as it's a pretty rare setup, but just
posting it here for future reference.

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Re: Ville: ok to put setup.py in leo/dist folder?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Commented on github

On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 Can you live with setup.py somewhere other than the top-level folder?

 Hiding setup.py seems like the only way to resolve git bug #81
 https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues/81

 Various forms of this issue have been around for years.

 Edward

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Re: Some smallish cleanups: one level of indirection is enough!

[Ville M. Vainio]

Great to see where this is going :). Should help make the code approachable
by other people as well.

As they say, great design is more about removing things than adding more
things.

On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 10:49 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 I've just pushed a cleanup of Leo's qt tree code in qt_tree.py.  The new
 code eliminates the the BaseNativeTreeWidget class and moves all the
 functional code from the BaseNativeTreeWidget class to the LeoQtTree class,
 eliminating code that existed only to be over-ridden.  Sheesh.

 LeoQtTree is now a subclass of the LeoTree class (defined in leoFrame.py)
 as it should be.

 This continues the drive to eliminate unnecessary levels of redirection in
 the code.  I used to quote this saying, there is no problem in computer
 science that can't be cured by one more level of indirection.  The snappy
 rejoinder was, except for too many levels of indirection! Indeed, I would
 modify the saying as follows: Any more than one level of indirection is
 too many.  This might go too far in the other direction, but I think it is
 a better guide :-)

 I don't expect any problems with the new code because it consisted mostly
 of moving nodes around! The only tricky part was merging the ctors...

 All seems well, but please report any problems immediately.

 Edward

 P.S.  I plan no more reorgs of the code, but I was saying that a few days
 ago :-)  Otoh, everything seems about as simple as it could possibly be
 made, so there is hope that this really is the last munge...

 EKR

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Re: Wanted: w.getTextLength and p/v.get_b_length

[Ville M. Vainio]

Maybe QTextCursor could help

http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qtextcursor.html


On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com
wrote:

 A head-slapping moment: the so-called high-level interfaced throughout
 Leo's core to interact with Leo's text panes lacks a way of getting the
 length of text *without* making a copy of the text.

 This is more than a slight oversight: I imagine there are several place
 were the code does s = w.getAllText() merely so it can use len(s)! This is
 a huge strain on the GC for large p.b.

 Worse, the absence of w.getTextLength() has lead to the most unfortunate
 LeoQTextEditWidget.lengthHelper, which calculated the length of the text
 using QTextCursor methods!  This is catastrophically slow for large text.
 This method was doubling node load times for large nodes.

 In other words, w.getTextLength() is an essential part of fixing git bug
 28:
 https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues/28

 But nooo... w.getTextLength() is far from easy to do.  There is no
 QTextEdit or QTextDocument method that delivers the length of the text!
 This is a *huge* hole in the QTextEdit and QTextDocument api's, but there
 is nothing we can do about that.

 The simplest thing that could possibly work would be::

 def getTextLength(self):
 w = self.widget
 return len(w.getAllText())

 But this would be a step backwards because it hides the fact that it is
 expensive.

 It might be possible to cache the value of w.getAllText in an text
 changed event handler in LeoQTextBrowser:(QTextBrowser).  But I would like
 to avoid this approach--any bug would lead to data loss or corruption. I
 may play around with this, but for now it's not likely to happen.  See
 below for a workaround.

 By analogy with w.getTextLength(), we can imagine a p.b_length method that
 would simply return len(p.v._bodyString).  This, at least, is worth doing.

 = Summary

 w.getTextLength() isn't trivial.  (Sounds of gnashing teeth.)

 Caching the value returned by w.getAllText() seems too dangerous.

 As a work-around, the crucial node-selection logic will attempt to
 minimize calls to w.getAllText.  There, and *only* there, it should be
 possible to create a *single* copy of the text and pass that copy around to
 all code that needs it.  It would be a complication, but a completely safe
 one.

 Otoh, p/v.b_length are trivial and useful.  They will be added asap.

 Edward

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[Python-ideas] Proposal: Use mypy syntax for function annotations

[Ville M. Vainio]

This is of interest reg. some recent discussions around the topic

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2014-August/028618.html

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Re: Defining commands: @g.command is not always best

[Ville M. Vainio]

Note that g.command does not need to be at top level. You can define
functions using it in a function or method, capturing c, self or whatever
from enclosing scope.
 On Aug 15, 2014 2:37 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 This post discusses discusses problems with the @g.command decorator.
 Later sections discuss solutions. These later sections are ENB (Engineering
 Note Book) discussions, which can safely be ignored by all except the usual
 suspects...

 Promises to do something today don't always get kept because a seemingly
 simple task like adding an insert-file-name command becomes unbearable.
 Creating a better way to define commands has become urgent.

 = Background

 @g.command has its uses, especially in plugins.  It allows any code to
 define a new Leo command without having any access to Leo's core code.  For
 this reason alone, the @g.command decorator is here to stay.

 However, using @g.command to add Leo commands is often *way* too clumsy.
 There are several problems using @g.command.  To see these problems
 clearly, let's look at a typical example, from leoVim.py::

 @g.command(':gt')
 def vim_gt(event):
 '''cycle-focus'''
 c = event.get('c')
 if c and c.vimCommands:
 c.vimCommands.cycle_focus()

 This code sucks, for at least the following reasons:

 1. It requires an outer-level function-name (vim_gt) that has no value
 except to the @g.command decorator itself.  This is useless verbiage and
 just clutters the namespace.  Worse, although the decorator doesn't require
 distinct names, disabling a pylint check for duplicate names would be way
 too dangerous.

 2. It repeats the template code for each different command.  This is pure
 cruft. Worse, the tests for c and c.vimCommands would not be necessary in a
 subcommander.

 3. It is usually bad design to define the command at the top level.
 Commands should be defined in the classes that contain their code!

 For all these reasons, vim-mode commands clearly should *not* be defined
 using the @g.command decorator.  The question is, how to define them
 cleanly?

 Everything from here on is an ENB entry.  Feel free to ignore, unless you
 are Terry ;-)

 = Motivation

 It would be possible to define vc commands in vc.finishCreate as is done
 by sub-commanders in leoEditCommands.py, but as I was thinking about this
 problem I discovered how to simplify the definition of almost *all* of
 Leo's commands.  This is too good to ignore, for the following reasons:

 1. The simplifications to be described reduce order constraints during
 startup.  Any such reduction is, all by itself, extremely valuable, because
 such order constraints are the main complicating factor in the startup code.

 2. As always, simplifications to complex code (and Leo's startup code is
 complex in hard-to-see ways) promise further simplifications.  No further
 simplifications are apparent *now*, but it would be bad practice not to
 simplify the code when I can.

 = Details

 At present, there are several ways (not sure how to count them ;-) to
 define large numbers of commands.  By defining a command I mean associating
 a string (the command's name) with a method of some class.

 Although details vary, the basic idea in each case is to define a
 **commands dict**, a Python dict whose keys are command names (Python
 strings) and whose values are methods.

 In particular, each subcommander in leoEditCommands.py defines a
 getPublicCommands method that returns a commands dict.

 ECM.finishCreateEditCommanders then merges all the commands dicts, like
 this::

 def finishCreateEditCommanders (self):
 '''Finish creating edit classes in the commander.
 Return the commands dictionary for all the classes.'''
 c,d = self.c,{}
 for name, theClass in self.classesList:
 theInstance = getattr(c,name)
 theInstance.finishCreate()
 theInstance.init()
 d2 = theInstance.getPublicCommands()
 if d2:
 d.update(d2)
 return d

 But none of this should be necessary.  Or rather, it should happen in a
 different place, and at no *particular* time.

 = A much better way to define commands.

 The basic problem with the code above is that it must happen at the exact
 instant that various finishCreate methods get called.  Yes, the present
 code works, but it depends *far* too much on code order during startup.

 We can remove *all* these unnecessary ordering constraints as follows:

 1.  Define init phase 0: create ivars.

 This phase is trivial, for our present purposes.  Commands.__init__ will
 just define c.commandsDict and its inverse, as *empty* Python dictionaries.

 At present, the inverse of c.commandsDict is c.k.inverseCommandsDict.  How
 stupid is that?  It must be a c (Commands) ivar, not a c.k
 (KeyHandlerClass) ivar! Doh. Using a c.k ivar means that c.k must be inited
 *before* c.k.inverseCommandsDict 

Re: Tipp: Avoid conflicts when leo file is in source control

[Ville M. Vainio]

I think there is also a setting to NOT store expanded state in .leo files.
 On Aug 6, 2014 8:56 PM, Zoltan Benedek benzol...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 I don't know whether is documented or not this idea, but I wanted to be
 sure, that is not lost.

 If your leo file is in source control management system (like git,
 mercurial, ...), you can face some useless conflicts/commit changes of the
 leo file.

 When some outline nodes are contracted/expanded the leo file changes,
 whether or not the outline structure has changed.

 In order to avoid useless changes of the leo file in SCMS you can run the
 'contract-all' command before every commit.

 Best regards


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Re: Leo on Mac

[Ville M. Vainio]

Yes, I'm using Leo on Mac and works fine. Not hard to install either.


On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Zoltan Benedek benzol...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 I'm not a Mac user but have a lot of colleague's using Mac. I've read in
 the documentation that Leo is not recommended for Mac, because it's
 difficult to install.

 Now I see that is easier to install by HomeBrew.

 How stable is Leo on Mac?

 Can I recommend Leo for Mac users?

 Thanks

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Jedi autocompletion library for python

[Ville M. Vainio]

Something to evaluate:

https://github.com/davidhalter/jedi

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Re: Representing Leo outlines in git

[Ville M. Vainio]

I'm always here (reading), just not mustering enough time and energy to
write or contribute usefully :).



On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:



 On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 2:46:29 PM UTC-5, Ville M. Vainio wrote:

 Just as a quick stab - I was looking at camlistore through last few days.

 https://camlistore.org/

 It may be more natural fit for Leo outline management than git (as it's
 more about direct content addressable content access than git). I have had
 sketchy plans of reinventing something like camlistore from scratch, so
 it's something I will be looking into anyway.


 Great to hear from you again, Ville.  We've been missing your wisdom :-)

 camlistore looks very interesting, for many reasons.  In Leo's terms,
 distinction between an object and a blob is the distinction between a node
 (with gnx) and the various versions of it that may exist through time.
 I'll be studying camlistore closely.

 Edward

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Re: How to Ctrl-C a script started by Ctrl-B?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Yeah, just press ctrl-c in the terminal you used to launch Leo
 On Jul 8, 2014 5:21 AM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor 
leo-editor@googlegroups.com wrote:

 On Mon, 7 Jul 2014 18:55:11 -0700 (PDT)
 SegundoBob segundo...@gmail.com wrote:

  Does anyone know how to cancel a Leo-Editor script that is started by
  Ctrl-B?

 I'm not sure if it can be done from Leo, I think the Ctrl-B scripts are
 run in the same process as Leo itself.  Would a solution involving
 sending the signal from the unix/linux command line be relevant to
 you?  Although that may kill Leo completely, so I'm not sure it would
 help.

 Cheers -Terry

  I know how to use Ctrl-C to cancel a python script that is run from
  the command line:
 
  import sys
  import time
 
  idx = 0
  try:
  while True:
  print '{0}\r'.format(idx),
  sys.stdout.flush()
  idx += 1
  time.sleep(1)
  except KeyboardInterrupt:
  print '\nKeyboardInterrupt'
  print('Bye')
 
 
  But this does not work for a Leo-Editor script started by Ctrl-B.
 
  Since Leo-Editor is a PyQt4 application, I tried some of the
  solutions suggested here:
 
 
 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4938723/what-is-the-correct-way-to-make-my-pyqt-application-quit-when-killed-from-the-co
 
  But they don't work.
 
 

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Re: Representing Leo outlines in git

[Ville M. Vainio]

Just as a quick stab - I was looking at camlistore through last few days.

https://camlistore.org/

It may be more natural fit for Leo outline management than git (as it's
more about direct content addressable content access than git). I have had
sketchy plans of reinventing something like camlistore from scratch, so
it's something I will be looking into anyway.


On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 I've been studying the pro git book: http://git-scm.com/book and am now
 closely studying the internals chapter:
 http://git-scm.com/book/en/Git-Internals

 Stimulated by Kent's work with db's, the question arises: is it possible
 to represent a Leo outline as a git object?

 I believe the answer is yes, and not just in the trivial sense that any
 content is a blob:

 - Every node's gnx, headline, body text and uA (and anything else) has a
 unique (sha-1) hash.
 - We could define (git) tree objects that contain the following entries:
 gnx, headline, body text, uA, parents, children.
 - Empty uA's would be represented by the hash for an empty string.
 - Parents and children entries would be other git tree objects.

 In this way, we could use git plumbing to build a git tree object
 representing an entire outline, with all the data contained in a .leo file.

 In other words, even though git is *content* addressable, the content can
 contain gnx's, so that nodes *identities* are preserved.

 Don't know whether any of this will be helpful in the current creative
 ferment, but I thought I would point it out.

 Edward

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Re: Coming soon: pep 8 (Upper-case) class names

[Ville M. Vainio]

pep8 style would probably be VNode. How about just Node now that we only
have vnodes?
On May 20, 2014 7:45 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 Using pep-8 naming conventions for classes is a simple step that helps
 distinguish types.  In the next few days I'll probably complete the
 transition in Leo's code base. That is, within Leo's core the calls to the
 ctors will now look like, for example::

 v = leoNodes.Vnode(...)
 p = Position(...)

 Don't panic: the old class names, like vnode and position, will continue
 to be defined (as aliases to the new class names) so all existing code,
 plugins and scripts should work as before.

 Edward

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Re: Why Leo is not yet ready for prime time (for most users)

[Ville M. Vainio]

Git is sometimes used to maintain e.g. design assets and documentation.

I guess non-technical people will learn to use git when it's mandatory part
of their work.


On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 5:52 PM, 'Terry Brown' via leo-editor 
leo-editor@googlegroups.com wrote:

 On Fri, 9 May 2014 20:13:17 -0700 (PDT)
 Richard Cranium completea55h...@gmail.com wrote:

  Like all the non-technical people that managed to learn git?

 I don't quite understand your comment, and I'm considering trying to
 teach non-technical people git, so I'm curious.  Is there a context
 where you see a lot of non-technical people using git?  Via git-hub, or
 some other UI?  Or is it not as hard as it seems if it's explained
 right?

 Thanks, Terry

  On Saturday, May 3, 2014 10:15:17 PM UTC-5, duf...@gmail.com wrote:
  
   I am a long-time lurker on this newsgroup, and I have noticed that
   in the last few months there have been significant improvements to
   Leo, in the hopes of making it more accessible to the non-technical
   crowd. It was certainly a move in the right direction but, alas, I
   think it was not enough. The point of my argument is that Leo is
   still too technically-oriented, and this alienates so many
   potential users. You just have to read the posts on this newsgroup
   (as I have been doing for a long time), to realize that people with
   little or no programming experience are bound to find major
   difficulties in using Leo, from the very beginning. Just trying to
   configure the simplest (UI-related) settings is a major challenge.
   This issue was already raised in the past, but is yet to be solved.
  
   Why can't we (non-technical people) be relieved with having to
   tinker with the internal workings of Leo? Come to think of it, the
   overwhelming majority of modern programs are totally GUI-based, so
   that the settings can be easily changed via menus. Why can't we
   have this in Leo too, instead of having to learn technical jargon
   and manually modify settings files? I really don't get it.
  
   Please, consider doing something radical about it (e.g.
   refurbishing the default menus with all the main commands and
   settings, at least), or realistically Leo might be bound for
   extinction.
  
   All the best,
  
   Duf
  
 

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Re: Any mac user want an atom.io invire?

[Ville M. Vainio]

One more invitation to go, don't make me ask on Twitter whether anyone
wants it ;-).


On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.comwrote:

 I have 3 invites to give. You need a mac to use it.

 Priority given for frequent committers, othewise it's first come first
 served :)


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Any mac user want an atom.io invire?

[Ville M. Vainio]

I have 3 invites to give. You need a mac to use it.

Priority given for frequent committers, othewise it's first come first
served :)

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Re: Nightly snapshots not up to date?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Are nightly snapshots needed anymore since you can just grab the source
from github?

Select download zip from the bottom right edge of

https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor

Direct link

https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/archive/master.zip



On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 7:24 AM, Peter Mills peter.m.mil...@gmail.comwrote:



 On Sunday, April 6, 2014 8:26:30 AM UTC+10, Peter Mills wrote:

 Despite the file name of leo-editor-snapshot-20140405.zip in the
 nightly snapshot page, the files therein appear to to be from 2014-02-13.
  A fish around in the files shows that viewrendered2.py is not included,
 confirming the snapshot's age.  I'm now getting my updates from git, but a
 friend I introduced to Leo seemed to end up with an old version by using
 the nightly snapshot option.


 (Forwarded from Terry)

 Thanks for the heads up, I'll have a look.

 yahoo isn't sending my mail, so forward this to the list if you would,
 thanks.

 Cheers -Terry

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Re: Leo program fails to show content of a certain Leo outline ...

[Ville M. Vainio]

I just do git init; git add foo.leo in any directory where I do work I
would mind losing.

Of course this is not cloud backup, but it's a useful local time machine
in case you screw up


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Fidel N fidelpe...@gmail.com wrote:

 The way to do it with dropbox is just install, then drop the files in its
 folder.
 Then, they automatically backup any time the file changes.

 But Im interested on that, how would you do that with git?

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Re: git: done; Issue tracker?

[Ville M. Vainio]

I think we should have all the tickets in one place, i.e. github


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:24 PM, lewis lewisn...@operamail.com wrote:

 +1 for github. It's working fine for me.
 I tend towards leaving the old issues back on launchpad.

 Lewis


 On Thursday, February 13, 2014 4:46:08 AM UTC+11, Matt Wilkie wrote:


 ~ issue migration is unecessary. Leave old stuff as old stuff and only
 create new bugs/requests as they arise, link backwards as needed. 
 (Nunithttps://groups.google.com/d/topic/nunit-developer/m5IGh-u6cWI/discussion
 )
 

 My personal opinion is that we should use all of GitHub's facilities:
 code, issues, wiki, and perhaps even github pages for leoeditor.com.
 Leo's internet presence is rather fractured and this is a good opportunity
 to pull everything together into a more cohesive and integrated whole.

 I'd give the github-issue-importer a trial run or two. If it works out of
 the box, great, otherwise proceed with leave old stuff as old stuff.

 My 2c.

 -matt


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Re: Leo program fails to show content of a certain Leo outline ...

[Ville M. Vainio]

Or better yet, create local git repos and commit regularly.


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Fidel N fidelpe...@gmail.com wrote:

 I know for this time its probably too late, but I would suggest you to
 keep all your leo files in dropbox or alike.
 This way, all the previous versions up to 1 month are automatically stored
 (for free), so you can always roll back if something unexpected happens.

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Re: Tabbed UI weirdness on Mac

[Ville M. Vainio]

I have noted the same thing. I think this is a reason tabbed UI is not
default on mac :)


On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 12:58 AM, Largo84 larg...@gmail.com wrote:

 After much wailing and gnashing of teeth I finally got Leo to run on Mac
 OS (Mavericks). Now trying to get my tabbed UI I'm used to from Windows to
 work the same way on the Mac. A few things I see:

1. --gui=qttabs is apparently not the default on this installation,
any idea how to make it the default?
2. When I launch Leo using --gui=qttabs I get a tabbed UI, but the
usual menu bar at the top of the screen goes away (File, Edit, Outline,
Plugins...etc.)
3. Copying text from the log pane does not work (Command-C or
EditCopy). Copying works fine from the body pane.

 Anyone else having similar experience or ideas on how to make the UI work
 on the Mac similar to Windows?

 Regards,

 Rob

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Re: unadorned node body

[Ville M. Vainio]

p.b gives you the body
On Feb 17, 2014 4:58 PM, Kent Tenney kten...@gmail.com wrote:

 Is there a way to retrieve the plain content of
 a node body? I am seeing p.script inserting an
 encoding line.

 Thanks,
 Kent

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Re: How is the move to git going for you?

[Ville M. Vainio]

+1. No change needed here


On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 3:38 PM, Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 2/14/2014 7:52 AM, Edward K. Ream wrote:

 Should we restrict access to the git repo?  Your thoughts, please.

 Edward

  Define 'restrict access'.  As it stands now, only those in the
 'leo-editor' organization have write access.  We could change that, but
 it's currently in the same state it was over on bzr/launchpad, with a lower
 user count.

 If, for example, we changed it so that only you had write access, I feel
 like development would stagnate, as we'd need your approval to push things
 like plugins, quick bugfixes, etc.  I think, from experience with other
 projects, that having a single person with absolute control over a repo
 leads to significant delays in getting new code in master.

 A middle ground would be, say, four or five developers with write access
 to master, and everyone else works with pull requests... but I kind of
 dislike that idea too...

 Leo isn't, in my opinion, an unstable piece of software that would benefit
 from the walled garden approach.  The day-to-day state of the code in the
 repo is perfectly stable for power-users (due to the extensive unit tests
 and such), and often has important bugfixes that the previous release
 version doesn't.  I think the relatively open approach to handling repo
 permissions on launchpad has contributed to this, and I can't imagine
 walling of Leo's git repo would have a positive effect.

 Just my $0.02.

 --Jake


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Re: Warning: dealing with git line endings

[Ville M. Vainio]

Are we positive that we need .gitattributes at all? Is there a reason that
lines with LF would be converted to CRLF on local machine?

The way I see it, every line ending should be preserved as is, since Leo
doesn't require CRLF on windows, and doesn't benefit from those either.


On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 2/14/2014 9:48 AM, Edward K. Ream wrote:

 I am considering adding a .gitattributes file at the top level of the
 repo containing:: text eol=lf

 If I am not mistaken, this forces all line endings to be Linux line
 endings.  Without this setting, reStructuredText and/or Sphinx has trouble
 with .rst files.

 However when I did git add . I got the following bizarre warnings:

 warning: LF will be replaced by CRLF in leo/doc/LeoDocs.leo.
 The file will have its original line endings in your working directory.
 warning: LF will be replaced by CRLF in leo/doc/html/conf.py.
 The file will have its original line endings in your working directory.
 warning: LF will be replaced by CRLF in leo/doc/leoProjects.txt.
 The file will have its original line endings in your working directory.
 warning: LF will be replaced by CRLF in leo/doc/leoToDo.txt.
 The file will have its original line endings in your working directory.

 These messages seem exactly backwards.

 There are also some not-very-clear warnings at the end of this page:
 https://help.github.com/articles/dealing-with-line-endings.

 I haven't committed or pushed anything.  Any advice about what to do next?

 Edward
 --

 According to this SO answer, you're fine: http://stackoverflow.com/a/
 20653073

 What that setting does is converts all CRLF characters to LF characters
 during the commit -- so in the repo they will always be LF.  On
 checkout/clone/whatever, they'll be automatically converted to the
 appropriate ending for the platform you're on.

 The repo will *always* contain LF characters, regardless of the
 line-endings the committers use.

 That is, if I'm reading it right...

 --Jake


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Re: How is the move to git going for you?

[Ville M. Vainio]

git gui is a quirky tool that I wouldn't recommend for beginners. I
recommend installing SourceTree if you are on windows or mac:
http://www.sourcetreeapp.com/

Also: I have never heard of anyone using credential store. Uploading the
ssh keys to github is the way to go.



On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 2/12/2014 8:41 AM, Edward K. Ream wrote:



  2. Storing credentials avoids having to type passwords:
 https://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-
 credential-store.html

  So does giving github your public ssh key: https://help.github.com/
 articles/generating-ssh-keys


 This works in github itself, but hasn't worked for me using git gui.

 My plan is to avoid git gui entirely, using the command line to launch
 difftool ( a gui diff).

 EKR

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Re: How is the move to git going for you?

[Ville M. Vainio]

It's better to use git archive

E.g;

git archive -o latest.zip HEAD


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 2/12/2014 9:28 AM, Edward K. Ream wrote:

 On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 7:41:49 AM UTC-6, Edward K. Ream wrote:

 Sometime today I'll update Leo's home page to point to the new repo.

 What about the daily snapshots?  Can they capture the git repo?

  Here's a bash script to make a .gz snapshot of a git repo:

 
 #!/bin/bash

 repo=g...@github.com:leo-editor/leo-editor.git
 reponame='leo-editor'
 destination=/some/path/to/work/from
 destfile=leo-editor-snapshot

 # logic
 cd $destination
 rm -rf $reponame
 git clone $repo
 tar cf ${destfile}.tar ${reponame}/*
 gzip ${destfile}.tar
 

 Terry probably already knows all of that though :p

 --Jake

  Edward


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Re: git: done; Issue tracker?

[Ville M. Vainio]

+1 for github, mainly because 'everyone' has github account and therefore
the effort to file a bug is very low for casual users. The speed is a big
plus as well.
On Feb 12, 2014 7:46 PM, Matt Wilkie map...@gmail.com wrote:

 Something we haven't talked about in the migration yet is what to do with
 issues.

 In a brief survey of other projects I've learned:

 - Launchpad Issue tracker has more features than Github (in 2011 anyway,
 has probably changed a little bit. See OpenStack migration 
 planhttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack-devel/+spec/move-to-github,
 a good overview and evaluation of things to consider)

 + general consensus seems to be that in almost all respects GitHub is
 noticeably faster than Launchpad, something reflected in my personal
 experience, but perhaps not in China? c.f. ZoomQuiet in other thread.

 + there is an Launchpad to Github issue 
 importerhttps://github.com/johnf/github-issue-importer,
 no idea how well it works. Hasn't had much commit activity, but that could
 because it  solves the problem and then isn't used again.

 ~ issue migration is unecessary. Leave old stuff as old stuff and only
 create new bugs/requests as they arise, link backwards as needed. 
 (Nunithttps://groups.google.com/d/topic/nunit-developer/m5IGh-u6cWI/discussion
 )
 

 My personal opinion is that we should use all of GitHub's facilities:
 code, issues, wiki, and perhaps even github pages for leoeditor.com.
 Leo's internet presence is rather fractured and this is a good opportunity
 to pull everything together into a more cohesive and integrated whole.

 I'd give the github-issue-importer a trial run or two. If it works out of
 the box, great, otherwise proceed with leave old stuff as old stuff.

 My 2c.

 -matt


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Re: I'm back

[Ville M. Vainio]

Not just sexy, it's the de facto standard version control solution in
2014. If you use anything besides git, you need pretty good rationale or
people are going to question the choice.



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Re: Getting started with git workflow

[Ville M. Vainio]

There is a somewhat similar workflow that is more popular and better
supported by boxed tools, called git flow:

https://github.com/nvie/gitflow

(the main difference seems to be readily available wrapper tools for branch
management, and devel branch).

I recommend we adopt that once we have got started. It is also natively
supported by SourceTree (i.e. there is git flow menu).

From the start though, we don't necessarily need to adopt a sophisticated
flow like this, committing directly to master on first few weeks while
adapting to git seems ok. Even that will have benefits over bzr we are
currently using. I.e. I don't want to see too complicated workflow
becoming an obstacle in adopting git.



On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 2:12 AM, gf gyromagne...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tuesday, January 7, 2014 7:38:51 PM UTC+7, Ville M. Vainio wrote:

 Hey,

 I guess it's pretty clear that migrating the repo from bzr won't be a big
 problem.

 Are we otherwise clear on how to work with git? I guess the flow won't be
 perfect from the get-go, i.e. we would continue using it quite a bit like
 bzr - committing directly to master, merges instead of rebases etc.

 I also recommend win/mac users to check out SourceTree, which is quite
 handy once you have grasped the basic git use:

 http://www.sourcetreeapp.com/ - private http://www.sourcetreeapp.com/




 Hi,

 The git workflow adopted by the IPython developers is here:


 http://ipython.org/ipython-doc/dev/development/gitwash/development_workflow.html

 I believe that they gave this quite a bit of thought before adopting it.

 -gyro

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Re: Ipython notebook, leo

[Ville M. Vainio]

My current thoughts on this:

- I have no bandwidth to create a full qml notebook. That's why I have
changed my aspirations to actually using the web ipython notebook, and
hooking that up to data in leo instance somehow.

- Static reference to .ipynb is of limited usability. I have found myself
executing stuff in ipython notebook, more than I have just read through the
notebooks.

- My old go to solution would have been to just launch ipython kernel in
Leo process, but this seems fragile and it breaks between e.g. ubuntu
verisions. Therefore launching some rpc server in Leo and communicating
over socket seems like the safer thing to do (there is pre-existing work
around this, e.g. http://leoeditor.com/plugins.html#leoremote-py ; you
would just need convenient client library).

- I have no active development project around this currently; these things
usually happen when I have an acute need :).
 It's more like a background thought process.


On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 2:53 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas 
off...@riseup.net wrote:

 Hi Ville,

 One of the things that brings me back again and again to this community,
 though most times I'm not a very visible user here, may be because most
 programming discussions escape my understanding, is the lot of interesting
 stuff happening here and a lot of affinities of thoughts on the
 possibilities. Some time ago I wrote about the combination of IPython + Le,
 offering the first the interactive rendering and computation, and the
 second, structure and deepness, here:

 http://mutabit.com/mutabit/default/wiki/ipython-deepness

 I don't know is there is someway of creating @ipython nodes for
 rendering/starting in a special body pane IPython notebooks coupled between
 them, but this seems a really good use case for scientific computing and an
 argument to think in a QML web enabled interface for collaboration in
 interactive web enabled scientific outlines.

 Cheers,

 Offray

 El 22/04/12 16:28, Ville M. Vainio escribió:

  (idle late night thoughs)

 Attached is a screenshot of ipython notebook, if you haven't tried it yet.

 How I see it, this could be one possible arrangement for our leo as a
 grid UI concept, enabled by exploration of the free-layout work.

 The notebook is a linear (1 dimensional) scrolling pane; I wonder
 whether free-layout's splitter approach works with this one? Splitters
 are more typically used in non-scrollable containers, but if it can be
 made to work like this, great :).

 We can use this kind of linear arrangement even for deeper trees - if
 a node is a child of parent, indent it a but more than a parent.
 Practical benefit of this is that we could put computation at depth
 1, and the result of the computation as child of that, at depth 2.
 Navigability is lost if we add much more depth, but 2 levels should be
 just fine.

 PS. Incidentally, the ipython notebook work that started some years
 ago was a spark for me to look at leo-ipython bridge, and actually
 become a member of leo community ;-). I saw that leo offered a much
 easier way to do a notebook/workbook like concept.




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Getting started with git workflow

[Ville M. Vainio]

Hey,

I guess it's pretty clear that migrating the repo from bzr won't be a big
problem.

Are we otherwise clear on how to work with git? I guess the flow won't be
perfect from the get-go, i.e. we would continue using it quite a bit like
bzr - committing directly to master, merges instead of rebases etc.

I also recommend win/mac users to check out SourceTree, which is quite
handy once you have grasped the basic git use:

http://www.sourcetreeapp.com/

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Re: Init myLeoSettings from web

[Ville M. Vainio]

Yeah, but the attack vector is very small esp. if we use reliable hosts
like github, see e.g.

http://brunch.io/skeletons.html

The attraction would be getting started without understanding anything
about Leo, just how to run the command line.



On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 6:57 PM, Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 1/6/2014 11:52 AM, Ville M. Vainio wrote:

 Here's an idea: new command line argument to launchleo:

 python launchleo.py --init=http://leoeditor.com/templates/trivial1.leo

 This would just copy the file from the url as your myLeoSettings.leo, as
 a starting point.

 We could use that in docs to bootstrap leo easily.

 Neat idea, but could be a problem if someone compromised leoeditor.com...
 though I don't see that happening, I'm a paranoid type.

 The Io progamming language has a similar feature -- it can fetch and run
 Io source code from any generic URL, that I've used to effect in tutorials,
 hosting libraries from github and telling people to pull them in:

 Io doURL(https://github.com/gatesphere/blog-resources/raw/
 master/downloads/source/io/LSystem.io)

 --Jake

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Init myLeoSettings from web

[Ville M. Vainio]

Here's an idea: new command line argument to launchleo:

python launchleo.py --init=http://leoeditor.com/templates/trivial1.leo

This would just copy the file from the url as your myLeoSettings.leo, as a
starting point.

We could use that in docs to bootstrap leo easily.

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Nov 2013 theme system

[Ville M. Vainio]

I noted there is a reference to Nov 2013 theme system in themes.leo

I only noted this after creating a mac-friendly leo_dark_2 theme, not sure
if this should be ported to new scheme.

I basically changed font face to Monaco (based on suggestion by some leo
user earlier, can't recall who), and reduced font size to 12px.

PIc here:

https://plus.google.com/103097156557482112329/posts/Rhqyq8AmTqV

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Re: Fw: [Leo Editor] Emacs needs to move to git (from bzr)

[Ville M. Vainio]

Yes, bzr trunk will be enough for main git repo, and it's not like we would
be deleting the old repos in the process.
On Jan 5, 2014 1:50 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Matt Wilkie map...@gmail.com wrote:

 this is a more informative starting point
 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19930832/converting-big-bzr-repository-to-git-what-to-expect.
 Initial experiments look like it won't be too bad. I'll have more to report
 later.


 Thanks for this, Matt.  I personally would be happy just to migrate the
 history of the bzr trunk.  That will provide

 more than enough data for any future archeologists.

 Edward

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Re: [Leo Editor] Emacs needs to move to git (from bzr)

[Ville M. Vainio]

Well, I don't think we want a 3 gig repository for daily work.


On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 9:42 PM, Matt Wilkie map...@gmail.com wrote:


 On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Terry Brown terry_n_br...@yahoo.comwrote:

 I get 1.1 Mb / sec. downloand :-) but 87 Kb / sec.
 upload



 good point. I was thinking of standard dnld speeds. Unfortunately I've no
 idea what the upload payload size is. I think Jake's idea of breaking
 things into pieces is probably wise if this current attempt doesn't get far.

 -matt

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Needed: ability to bind Ctrl (Meta) key on Mac

[Ville M. Vainio]

What Qt calls Ctrl is actually called Cmd (or Apple key) on mac.

There is actually a Ctrl key on the keyboard as well; it is called Meta,
or Qt.MetaModifier by Qt

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16809139/qt-how-to-define-cmdkey-shortcut-for-mac

Id'd like to be able to bind keys like:

edit-headline = Meta+h

(incidentally, I bound f2 to edit-headline now since ctrl+h is hide
window on Mac).

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Re: How to update a Leo outline from an external editor without closing the external editor

[Ville M. Vainio]

Right click - refresh from disk


On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 1:34 AM, wgw wgwin...@gmail.com wrote:

 Leo allows editing of a tree in an external editor; I use Sublime, mainly
 because I can see the whole tree as continuous text, edit it and then have
 it go magically back into tree form under Leo.

 The problem is that, though I close the temp file in Sublime, the tree is
 not updated in Leo until I close Sublime itself. I sometimes don't want to
 close Sublime at all.

 Is there any way to trigger that update manually?

 Some editors will flag external changes to the file being edited and when
 you come back to the editor screen it will ask if the file should be
 updated. That would do the trick for my Leo problem, but a manual update
 would work as well.

 Is this functionality already available?

 Thanks!

 Bill

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Re: './external' or './extensions' for py module?

[Ville M. Vainio]

I would vote for external instead. External means third party modules
that just happen to be bundled with Leo.


On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 6:01 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Matt Wilkie map...@gmail.com wrote:

 Working towards the goal of adding desktop  Startmenu shortcuts, and
 file associations, in Windows when installing from pypi.python.org:


 My apologies for the delay in responding.


 - I'm thinking of adding the winshell module  (28kb,
 https://winshell.readthedocs.org/en/latest/) to make things easier.
 Would it go in ./leo/external or ./leo/extensions?


 I'm not real sure myself.  Looking at leoPy.leo, there seems to be @file
 nodes for the entries in the leo/external directory.  Furthermore, the
 docstring for  g.importExtension is:

 '''Try to import a module.  If that fails, try to import the module
 from Leo's extensions directory.
 moduleName is the module's name, without file extension.'''

 So the answer is, leo/extensions.

 I'll add readme.txt files to the extensions and external directories,
 clarifying this point.

 Edward

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Re: my 1st Leo Blog post

[Ville M. Vainio]

Looks fine from here :)


On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 1:47 AM, Matt Wilkie map...@gmail.com wrote:

 is up: http://leo-editor.github.io/register_leo.html

 It's my first time using Pelican and Github.io; hopefully it was done
 properly?

 -matt

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Re: Key handling broken on mac (Option key)

[Ville M. Vainio]

I'll check when you have the fix in
On Nov 4, 2013 6:25 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thursday, October 17, 2013 11:25:10 AM UTC-5, Ville M. Vainio wrote:

 I am trying Leo on OSX with Finnish keyboard layout.

 To get the @ character, you have to press Option + 2. Option doubles as
 alt, so I guess it's misinterpreted as alt-2.


 This should be fixed for 4.11 final.   According to the bzr logs, rev 6107
 claimed to be responsible.  The only substantial change was the isPlain
 logic in selfInsertCommand, in leoEditCommands.py.

 I'll attempt a fix today, but this will be mostly guesswork--I'll need
 help verifying that various keyboards work correctly.

 EKR

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Re: Key handling broken on mac (Option key)

[Ville M. Vainio]

Same problem - Option + 2 gives you calltips on/off, instead of @
character you get in other programs.


On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 9:25 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.comwrote:

 I'll check when you have the fix in

 Please test rev 6229.  Not tested on MacOS (I'm reinstalling on MacOS
 now), but as I read the diffs it should be equivalent to pre-rev 6107 code
 on MacOS.

 Edward

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PlantUML

[Ville M. Vainio]

A colleague was using PlantUML to draw flow diagrams.

I thought it seems pretty nifty - like higher level wrapper for GraphViz.
Integration to Leo, e.g. viewrendered feature, could be interesting

http://plantuml.sourceforge.net/screenshot.html

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Re: What does the 'go-anywhere' command do?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Yes, it's one of those things that bumped into key handling complications.
It's ambition was to be like sublime text go-anywhere.
On Oct 28, 2013 7:53 PM, Terry Brown terry_n_br...@yahoo.com wrote:

 On Mon, 28 Oct 2013 13:46:01 -0400
 Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:

  It's defined in quicksearch.py (a.k.a. the nav tab plugin).  It opens up
  a widget in the top right, floating above whatever is there... and it
  doesn't really do anything visible with anything you input.

 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/leo-editor/epwszW5qh4Y

 not sure if it's considered finished though, don't use it.

 global-search is way cool though, from the `bigdash` plugin.

 Cheers -Terry

  Very confusing.  It also lacks a docstring (like much of the
  quicksearch.py commands).
 
  Thanks,
  --Jake
 

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Pysonar2

[Ville M. Vainio]

I know at least Edward likes this kind of stuff:

https://github.com/yinwang0/pysonar2

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Re: Please tell us: what are the benefits of Leo to *you*

[Ville M. Vainio]

- The outliner format helps me organise/reorganise my thoughts gradually,
instead of putting everything in the right place from the beginning. I
write a lot of body text with few headlines, and Leo's approach leaves lots
of space for the body text and therefore suits my workflow. I find that I
end up revisiting notes composed on Leo more often than notes slapped into
tools like Evernote or random files in the file system.

- With Leo, I can interleave notes (most of the content), generated files
and even random data and python scripts to manipulate that data. I process
this data in various tools, but Leo helps me group it together in project
specific Leo files.

- I know how to script the outline, so I can easily whip up different tools
for my needs that deal with the headline structure directly.

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Key handling broken on mac (Option key)

[Ville M. Vainio]

I am trying Leo on OSX with Finnish keyboard layout.

To get the @ character, you have to press Option + 2. Option doubles as
alt, so I guess it's misinterpreted as alt-2.

I recall there were email threads about alt gr, leo and international
keyboards, but I thought there was a resolution for that problem back then
(until I actually tried Leo on mac, that is).

Apart from this glitch, getting Leo running on Mac is much easier than I
remembered (just use homebrew to install PyQt).

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Re: Key handling broken on mac (Option key)

[Ville M. Vainio]

.. and what it actually does is, toggles Calltips on and off.


On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am trying Leo on OSX with Finnish keyboard layout.

 To get the @ character, you have to press Option + 2. Option doubles as
 alt, so I guess it's misinterpreted as alt-2.

 I recall there were email threads about alt gr, leo and international
 keyboards, but I thought there was a resolution for that problem back then
 (until I actually tried Leo on mac, that is).

 Apart from this glitch, getting Leo running on Mac is much easier than I
 remembered (just use homebrew to install PyQt).


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Re: Proposed workaround to refresh-from-disk problems

[Ville M. Vainio]

I use refresh-from-disk to sync outline with files I edited elsewhere.
Maybe we could use different string (load from disk) for new nodes?
On Sep 26, 2013 7:51 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 Refresh from disk is the feature of Ville's contextmenu plugin that I use
 the most.  This post proposes a way to use refresh-from-disk safely, or
 mostly so.

 Any change discussed here will happen after b1 goes out the door, so there
 is plenty of time for discussion.  I encourage your comments.

 As discussed here:
 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/leo-editor/nIl3ud7Tbig,
 refresh-from-disk has severe problems when the refreshed file has been
 changed in the Leo outline.  But my workflow uses refresh-from-disk only to
 load external files into *empty* @file nodes.  The typical scenario is::

 1. Create an @file node (that is, an @file, @auto or @edit node) for an
 already existing external file, one that has already been written by Leo.

 2. Use refresh-from-disk (accessible at present only using right-click) to
 populate the @file node.

 Happily, Leo already has some infrastructure that remembers which @file
 nodes Leo has read when loading the .leo file.  Leo will warn if we are
 about to overwrite a file that *wasn't* read during startup.

 I propose to use this infrastructure to enable refresh-from-disk only for
 @file nodes that a) are empty and b) were not read at startup.

 This should be safe, although not completely safe.  We can imagine a
 situation in which the never-read external file nevertheless shares a clone
 with the .leo file.  In that case, there will still be problems if the
 shared node has been altered somewhere in the .leo file.  Still this, is a
 remote possibility, much less likely than what triggered 1090950.  We
 have been living with bug 1090950 a long time; we can live with an even
 rarer bug for longer yet.

 The potential objection I see is that refresh-from-disk might be useful in
 other situation that the proposal seeks to outlaw.  Well, so be it.
 Refresh from disk on an altered, previously-read outline seems to dangerous
 to allow at present.

 BTW, there is always a workaround to problems with refresh-from-disk.
 Simply save the .leo file and reload.  The save will be safe for never-read
 @file nodes, provided that you say no when asked whether you want to
 overwrite the existing file!

 Your comments, please Amigos.

 Edward

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Re: Ville, what is the status of leo.core.leoIPython.py?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Agree


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 1:27 AM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.comwrote:

 That stuff is obsolete; valuaspace should be considered the ipython
 independent successors of the work in leoNode etc.


 Thanks for the clarification!

 As I was updating the documentation, I realized the new ipython-exec
 command doesn't work very much like the old

 push_ipython_script function.  For example, this doesn't work as before::

 QQQ
 Suppose that a node had the following contents::

 1+2
 print(hello)
 3+4
 def f(x):
 return x.upper()
 f('hello world')

 If you press alt+I on that node, you will see the following in Leo log
 window (IPython tab)::

 In: 1+2
 2 3
 In: 3+4
 4 7
 In: f('hello world')
 6 'HELLO WORLD'
 QQQ

 The new code just prints 'hello', with no change to IPython's history at
 all.

 This probably isn't too significant; it's just a change.  Do you agree?

 Edward

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Re: Ville, what is the status of leo.core.leoIPython.py?

[Ville M. Vainio]

That stuff is obsolete; valuaspace should be considered the ipython
independent successors of the work in leoNode etc.


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 10:13 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.comwrote:

 I suspect it may be useful, but it contains many old-style IPython imports.

 My *guess* is that most or all the stuff in GlobalIPythonManager is
 obsolete, but I'm not so sure about the leoNode class and all the rest.

 Much of the ILeo chapter in Leo's docs deals with these classes, so this
 is not a behind-the-scenes question.

 Please let me know your intentions.

 Edward

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Re: Do something new?

[Ville M. Vainio]

If you feel like looking into something new around tools, there could be
worse choices than looking into git ;-).




On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 The thought recently popped into my head that I should do something new.

 As I ponder this advice, the only valuable contribution it seems to make
 (at present) is to encourage me to think more about making programming
 tools.  I do not intend to attempt major life changes.  Another phrase
 comes to mind: Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose ;-)

 Tools have always been my first love, so you could say that this advice is
 ironic!  Perhaps I really should more of my time to tutorials and
 marketing, but my heart will probably never be there.  But Imo we have only
 begun to scratch the surface of what analysis tools might add to
 programming.  And if there is any real point to my static type checking
 project,
 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/python-static-type-checking, it
 would be to create one or more nifty new tools.

 Edward


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Fargo: Leo in the cloud :.)

[Ville M. Vainio]

Fargo is an outliner in the cloud:

http://smallpicture.com/fargoPress.html

It was fun to see that crtl+u, d, l, r work ;-)

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Re: rich text

[Ville M. Vainio]

I would speculate this causes huge performance regression when moving
through the tree with cursor keys (and e.g. across set of siblings where
every other node is @rich, every other is not). Am I wrong?


On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 6:14 PM, Terry Brown terry_n_br...@yahoo.comwrote:

 On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:21:34 -0500
 Terry Brown terry_n_br...@yahoo.com wrote:

  On Wed, 14 Aug 2013 09:32:45 -0400
  Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   Terry, any chance of supporting a '@rich' node type, such that when an
   @rich node is selected, it automatically switches to the CKEditor, and
   perhaps autosaves without user intervention?  I suppose that could be
 an
   add-on plugin, but it seems like it would make sense in the core of
 this
   plugin as well.
 
  Excellent idea.  So the rule would be:
 
  cke-text-open is called whenever a node is selected that includes
  @rich in its headline, or is the descendant of a node which includes
  @rich in its headline.

 This is pushed:

 @rich in the headline or first few lines (1000 characters) of a node or
 its ancestors will automatically open the rich text editor. @norich cancels
 this action. Manually opened editors are not affected.

 Cheers -Terry

  And when rich text is opened by the above mechanism, it will be
  automatically closed when a node not matching the above criteria is
  selected.
 
  I don't know if you need any way of disabling the behavior, I suppose a
  toggle wouldn't hurt, but you can access the Body pane when the rich
  text pane is showing using the free_layout right click on the divider
  functionality.
 
  Cheers -Terry
 

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Re: rich text

[Ville M. Vainio]

What if the nodes have nontrivial content?
 On Aug 15, 2013 3:03 PM, Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 8/15/2013 7:38 AM, Ville M. Vainio wrote:

 I would speculate this causes huge performance regression when moving
 through the tree with cursor keys (and e.g. across set of siblings where
 every other node is @rich, every other is not). Am I wrong?


  I just tested this out.  There is a very minor slowdown on my machine -
 I wouldn't say it's enough to cause an issue.  Perhaps there is a solution
 though - only switch editors if the node stays selected for at least 0.5
 seconds?  Not sure of the logistics behind that.

 I used the following tree:

 
 ?xml version=1.0 encoding=utf-8?
 !-- Created by Leo 
 (http://leoeditor.com/leo_toc.**htmlhttp://leoeditor.com/leo_toc.html)
 --
 ?xml-stylesheet ekr_test?
 leo_file 
 xmlns:leo=http://www.leo-**editor.org/2011/leohttp://www.leo-editor.org/2011/leo
 
 leo_header file_format=2/
 vnodes
 v t=peckj.20130815075505.2514 a=EvhTest/vh
 v t=peckj.20130815075505.2515**vh@rich blah/vh/v
 v t=peckj.20130815075505.2518**vh@norich blah/vh/v
 v t=peckj.20130815075505.2525**vh@rich blah/vh/v
 v t=peckj.20130815075505.2535**vh@norich blah/vh/v
 v t=peckj.20130815075505.2527**vh@rich blah/vh/v
 v t=peckj.20130815075505.2537**vh@norich blah/vh/v
 v t=peckj.20130815075505.2529**vh@rich blah/vh/v
 v t=peckj.20130815075505.2539**vh@norich blah/vh/v
 v t=peckj.20130815075505.2531**vh@rich blah/vh/v
 v t=peckj.20130815075505.2541**vh@norich blah/vh/v
 v t=peckj.20130815075505.2533**vh@rich blah/vh/v
 v t=peckj.20130815075505.2543**vh@norich blah/vh/v
 /v
 /vnodes
 tnodes
 t tx=peckj.20130815075505.2514 str_ctime=1376567873.0
 str_mtime=1376567951.0 str_atime=1376567983.0/t
 t tx=peckj.20130815075505.2515 str_ctime=1376567881.0
 str_mtime=1376567901.0 str_atime=1376567982.0/t
 t tx=peckj.20130815075505.2518 str_ctime=1376567894.0
 str_mtime=1376567909.0 str_atime=1376567958.0/t
 t tx=peckj.20130815075505.2525 str_ctime=1376567881.0
 str_mtime=1376567928.0 str_atime=1376567966.0/t
 t tx=peckj.20130815075505.2527 str_ctime=1376567881.0
 str_mtime=1376567928.0 str_atime=1376567967.0/t
 t tx=peckj.20130815075505.2529 str_ctime=1376567881.0
 str_mtime=1376567929.0 str_atime=1376567968.0/t
 t tx=peckj.20130815075505.2531 str_ctime=1376567881.0
 str_mtime=1376567929.0 str_atime=1376567968.0/t
 t tx=peckj.20130815075505.2533 str_ctime=1376567881.0
 str_mtime=1376567930.0 str_atime=1376567970.0/t
 t tx=peckj.20130815075505.2535 str_ctime=1376567894.0
 str_mtime=1376567935.0 str_atime=1376567967.0/t
 t tx=peckj.20130815075505.2537 str_ctime=1376567894.0
 str_mtime=1376567937.0 str_atime=1376567968.0/t
 t tx=peckj.20130815075505.2539 str_ctime=1376567894.0
 str_mtime=1376567944.0 str_atime=1376567968.0/t
 t tx=peckj.20130815075505.2541 str_ctime=1376567894.0
 str_mtime=1376567945.0 str_atime=1376567968.0/t
 t tx=peckj.20130815075505.2543 str_ctime=1376567894.0
 str_mtime=1376567948.0 str_atime=1376567971.0/t
 /tnodes
 /leo_file
 

 --Jake

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Re: Ville, should LeoReader be part of the highlights?

[Ville M. Vainio]

It's not related to specific leo version - rather, it's a standalone mobile
app.

Should not be highlighted.(yet). It works, but I plan to improve it a lot
still (during august)
On Aug 9, 2013 10:07 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 What's the status of this?

 Edward

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Re: Ville, what's the status of QML notebook?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Not at this time. Still at prototype stage (otoh, I have a similar
initiative for improving ipython notebook integration, now that ipython
event loop integration broke down in latest ubuntu)
On Aug 10, 2013 4:13 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:



 On Saturday, August 10, 2013 8:09:51 AM UTC-5, Edward K. Ream wrote:

  Where is this work now, and how would you like it described in the
 release notes?

 Oh.  I see it's on the contrib branch.  Anything more you would like to
 say about it?

 EKR

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Re: Leo History, the early years

[Ville M. Vainio]

Thought: if we ever move to git, it would be good to collect all the
history we have to the repo.
 On Aug 10, 2013 12:08 AM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Matt Wilkie map...@gmail.com wrote:


 I've located the early years CVS (Concurrent Version System) 
 repositoryhttp://leo.cvs.sourceforge.net/and added that to the Ohloh entry.


 Thanks.



 This narrows the remaining no-data gap in the open source incarnation of
 Leo to 2 years (2006-2008). What source code management system was being
 used during these years? is it still available somewhere?


 I think it was tigris svn.

 EKR

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Re: Leo adoption and the Leo user community

[Ville M. Vainio]

On documenting side: time.to post more on the leo-editor blog :). I think
I'll post about full text search next (bigdash stuff)
On Aug 9, 2013 3:56 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 3:25 PM, duf...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi

 I am a new user. (actually, I am still testing Leo),


 Welcome aboard. Newbies often have the clearest picture of Leo's
 failings.  All of Leo's core developers take their opinions seriously.


 and i could not help noticing that the use of Leo does not seem to be
 very widespread.

 Very few people talk about it and the user community seems to be quite
 small.


 It's hard to say.  For example, a single download to a professor can, and
 has, represented

 dozens or hundreds of users.  This reminds me: Leo should encourage users
 to send postcards to us so that we can have a better idea of who is
 actually using Leo.  Randy Pausch's Alice project (Alice.org) used to do
 this.  Not sure if it still does.

 In terms of user adoption, it seems to me that Leo is nowhere near that
 of other main text editors.


 I think that's right.


 Sure, Leo is in a category of its own, being an outlining editor, as
 opposed to a simple editor, but should this not make it more popular,
 instead of more obscure?


 Not necessarily.  People have a large investment in their existing tool
 chain.  This makes us all reluctant to make big changes.


 I really don't get it.
 From what I have seen, Leo has excellent capabilities. And yet it is
 still a semi-obscure application.



 What are the reasons for this? Is it just a matter of not being
 publicized enough, or is there something else? Or, let's say, what are the
 complaints that people have against Leo?


 Leo's core developers have asked these questions often.  It's good to be
 reminded of them.

 It's true: I suck as a publicist ;-)  But there substantive problems as
 well, especially for teams:

 1. Leo naturally wants to insert sentinels into external files.  This is
 the only *safe* way to retain outline structure.  Many people, especially
 those wanting to dis Leo, object to the sentinels.  True, there are
 alternatives to sentinels (using @auto and @shadow), but they aren't as
 powerful as @file.

 2. Sharing .leo files themselves (rather than sharing the external files)
 is problematical.  There are workarounds (so-called ref files).  See the
 FAQ entry, How should I use Leo with bzr/git/hg/svn/cvs?,
 http://leoeditor.com/FAQ.html#id21.

 Finally, you should realize that it was never my goal to displace emacs or
 vim.  My reasons for doing Leo were to create a tool that:

 1. allows me to understand complex computer programs.
 2. expands the power of scripting.

 Those are still my personal focus.  Having said that, it's recently become
 apparent that documenting what Leo can *already* do has top priority.  Here
 are the top three items on the list of desired outcomes for Leo:

 1. Newbies can install Leo without problems.
 2. Newbies can learn Leo's main features easily.
 3. *Good* documentation exists for all important plugins and features.


 Please, help me to understand this puzzle.


 HTH.  Thanks for your interesting question.

 Edward

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Re: Rich Text support in Leo

[Ville M. Vainio]

There is a rich tect editor demo in stickynotes plugin.

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Terry Brown terry_n_br...@yahoo.com wrote:

 On Mon, 5 Aug 2013 16:07:14 +0200
 dufriz duf...@gmail.com wrote:

  Thanks for the clarification.
  From what you wrote, I take it that no form of rich text support
 (whether
  Microsoft's RTF or otherwise) is going to be added *natively* to Leo
 (i.e.
  excluding plugins).
  Of course, this is your choice as developers, but allow me to point out
  that this limits considerably the chances of Leo to compete with other
  applications such as Notecase and the like.
 
  What I would love to see is a *native* implementation of some form of
 rich
  text (at the very least: font colors, sizes, italic, etc - that is, the
  basics) within Leo. Only then would I be willing to adopt Leo as my main
  production tool.
  Having the export tools (to HTML and to RTF) are not good enough, because
  what I need is to be able to *see* the projected outcome visually on the
  screen, while I am working on it.

 Just a note that the `view rendered` plugin is a real time presentation
 of the final output of rst, md, etc.  But authoring is still in rst etc.

 I think what you're looking for could be added to Leo quite simple *if*
 there's a PyQt compatible Qt rich text editor out there somewhere, we
 just haven't found one yet.

 Cheers -Terry

  I think the question ultimately boils down to: do we want to keep Leo as
 a
  strictly (or 'mostly') programmer's tool, or should we be also looking at
  at wider range of uses, such as information storage (PIM and the like)
 and
  text production tool?
 
  From what I understand, Leo has the potential of serving a wide range of
  purposes, and it is a pity to see its power restrained.
  Just adding some (native) support for rich text, in whichever form, will
 be
  a great improvement.
 
  I only hope that the developer does not fail to see how crucial is the
  point I am making, as it may determine the future success or failure of
 Leo.
 
 
  -
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  
   
   I'll update the opening words of the docstring to emphasize that the
   plugin can render both markdown and rST
   .
  
   Done at rev 5852.
  
   EKR
  
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Mini projects (for my summer holiday)

[Ville M. Vainio]

I don't want to spam the list with my plans that may/may not happen, so
doing it in G+, here's the link:

https://plus.google.com/103097156557482112329/posts/6YhyMZrUUKs

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Re: Leo Reader for Android now up on Google play

[Ville M. Vainio]

Crashes? Ok, time to work on an update then :)
On Jul 7, 2013 1:30 PM, lewis lewisn...@operamail.com wrote:

 Ville,

 It's working well for me and the touch navigation around a leo file seems
 very natural. This is a great step for leo, even though it's only a reader
 at present.
 You are correct in saying you need to install OpenIntents file manager -
 selecting 'Open' without OpenIntents installed crashes Leo Reader.

 Thanks
 Lewis

 On Sunday, July 7, 2013 4:22:54 AM UTC+10, Ville M. Vainio wrote:

 If you have an Android device, you can try it out:

 https://play.google.com/store/**apps/details?id=info.vv.**
 leoreaderfeature=search_**result#?t=**W251bGwsMSwyLDEsImluZm8udnYubG**
 VvcmVhZGVyIl0.https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.vv.leoreaderfeature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwyLDEsImluZm8udnYubGVvcmVhZGVyIl0.

 You need to install OpenIntents file manager to make open file work.
 Reasonable way to move .leo files to device is e.g. Dropbox.

 Needless to say it's not very polished, and it only reads .leo files (no
 @file nodes etc).

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Leo Reader for Android now up on Google play

[Ville M. Vainio]

If you have an Android device, you can try it out:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=info.vv.leoreaderfeature=search_result#?t=W251bGwsMSwyLDEsImluZm8udnYubGVvcmVhZGVyIl0.

You need to install OpenIntents file manager to make open file work.
Reasonable way to move .leo files to device is e.g. Dropbox.

Needless to say it's not very polished, and it only reads .leo files (no
@file nodes etc).

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Re: Rev 5832 adds new settings and completes the new colorizer

[Ville M. Vainio]

Quick observation: Leo feels much faster now (I move around with arrow keys
a lot).

On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 9:28 PM, daniel dan...@lpds.ufsc.br wrote:

 Hi,

 Same here. Working several hours a day with apparently nothing wrong. It
 has been working very smoothly.
 Thanks for the great work.

 Cheers, Daniel


 On Friday, July 5, 2013 11:21:20 AM UTC-3, Edward K. Ream wrote:

 I plan no further work unless serious bugs are found. I have been using
 the new colorer in approximately its present form for several days without
 a hard crash.

 The two new settings are as follows, with the indicated defaults:

 @int colorer_max_lines = 100
 The maximum number of lines to color at once, when NEW_COLORER is True.

 @int colorer_delay settings = 200
 The delay, in milliseconds, to wait before resuming recoloring, when
 NEW_COLORER is True.

 The new code has substantially better responsiveness than the old, but
 you may want to tweak the settings above.  The present code looks like the
 simplest thing that could possibly work, and is substantially simpler and
 more robust than previous ideas.  Nevertheless, it is not perfect.
 Handling very large files is always going to be a bit clumsy, at least
 until the full text is recolored.  After that, recoloring is very fast, as
 always.

 Edward

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Re: High res icon for Leo needed (512 x 512)

[Ville M. Vainio]

Thanks Fidel and Edward, I'll look into the icons this weekend.

The source code is here:

https://github.com/vivainio/leoreader

Leo engine related functionality is actually done in Xtend:

https://github.com/vivainio/leoreader/blob/master/src/com/w/LeoEngine.xtend

I recommend checking Xtend out, it makes Java feel like statically typed
python for most parts (type inference etc):

http://www.eclipse.org/xtend/



On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 12:06 AM, Fidel Pérez fidelpe...@gmail.com wrote:

 This is the royalty free image used as source for that one:


 http://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-photos-tribal-lion-image3490018

 I did a google-image-search for it, and its the bigger size result it
 finds (and its pretty accurate, I have already found several youtube videos
 just by searching one snapshot).

 Hey, just in case you were planning to do that app open source, and if you
 developed it through Leo, I would love to be able to study that app myself
 since I am willing to make easy-quick programming systems, Im starting with
 inside-Leo one, but would love to go Android afterwards.

 Thanks for that app btw!



 On Thursday, July 4, 2013 9:15:41 PM UTC+2, Ville M. Vainio wrote:

 Is there a high res (512 x 512) icon for Leo somewhere?

 I've done a Leo file reader app for Android tablets (for bedtime reading
 of .leo documents ;-), and would need a this kind of image in order to
 publish the app.

 I don't want to scale up current small icons since they would look
 horrilbe.

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High res icon for Leo needed (512 x 512)

[Ville M. Vainio]

Is there a high res (512 x 512) icon for Leo somewhere?

I've done a Leo file reader app for Android tablets (for bedtime reading of
.leo documents ;-), and would need a this kind of image in order to publish
the app.

I don't want to scale up current small icons since they would look horrilbe.

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Re: Syntax coloring: same code, new strategies

[Ville M. Vainio]

Could we start by doing the coloring as we do now, but only request it ~
1sec after the node has been selected? This way, you wouldn't see the
slowdown from coloring when quickly moving around with cursor keys.

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 Two days ago I took a look at the QSyntaxHighlighter (qsh) source code:
 http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/blobs/4.7/src/gui/text/qsyntaxhighlighter.cpp

 I was a bit surprised to see that this is just a thin wrapper over
 QTextDocument methods.  Yes, qsh is a useful wrapper, but Leo could do
 without it. If we aren't tied to the qsh code, we are free to repackage it
 in different ways.  If nothing else, this is a useful thought experiment!

 The *vital* thing to keep in mind in the following discussion is that the
 vast bulk of Leo's present (complex!) coloring code will remain unchanged.
 I am only considering a slight repackaging of Leo's code.

 Suppose we did syntax coloring in a separate thread?  This might solve the
 performance problems completely!  Body text would appear *instantly* in the
 body pane, and the coloring would be applied later. Of course, there are
 issues: all the real coloring must be done in the gui thread, so there is
 non-trivial coordination required.  In particular, the code would have to
 queue results that would then cause calls to setFormat in the main (gui)
 thread.

 This morning, when I arose, I saw a simpler alternative.  Suppose Leo does
 all coloring at idle time?  We get the same benefits, but with less
 complications.  No need for a separate thread: the idle-time code
 simulates a separate thread.  This is exciting. In essence, we just need
 to do the processing of the over-ridden rehighlight method at idle time.
 That is, Leo would recolor just one line at each idle time.  This keeps the
 response excellent.

 It might be possible to get a prototype working in just a few hours.  I'll
 do so asap.

 Edward

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Re: Syntax coloring: same code, new strategies

[Ville M. Vainio]

I'm not sure interrupting the coloring is an important use case. If we
start coloring lazily (i.e. 0.5 - 1 sec after entering the node, users
should not be massively bothered by it).

Rewriting C++ code in python is probably a bad idea performancewise.

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 6:24 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:


 On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.comwrote:

 Could we start by doing the coloring as we do now, but only request it ~
 1sec after the node has been selected? This way, you wouldn't see the
 slowdown from coloring when quickly moving around with cursor keys.


 The more I think of this topic, the more, um, interesting  it becomes.

 And I was wrong about qsh being just a wrapper.  There is some real code
 in the class.  For example: QSyntaxHighlighterPrivate::reformatBlocks.

 By creating our own version of this code it may be possible to
 interruptable coloring.  The idea is to stop coloring when any event
 appears.  Of course, the problem then becomes how to restart coloring!  The
 answer will depend on whether the event causes the text to change.

 Perhaps this is a harder problem than I thought, or maybe the Qt people
 just never thought that an interruptable syntax colorer would be useful.

 There are no guarantees, but a plausible first step would be to rewrite
 qsh in Python.  That way we will have full control over the scheduling of
 calls to (the overridden) highlightBlock method.  This is the gateway to
 all of Leo's colorizing code.  It calls the top-level recolor method,
 providing we aren't in @killcolor mode.

 Edward

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Re: Should this be on wishlist? - Qt change tree view when saving -

[Ville M. Vainio]

It should be considered a bug, not a wishlist item.

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Fidel Pérez fidelpe...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi:
 When I save the leo file, instead of staying where I am on the leo tree,
 it will go and center the view on the selected node.
 So if I save before editing another node far away, it will focus back
 there, so I have to search for it again.
 I know I can solve it by selecting the node i want to edit before saving
 But imo what I suggest is more intuitive (and easy to understand) for the
 user. It took me a while to realize what was happening after I saved, and
 how to go back to where I was, it used to disorient me big time as a noob
 in Leo.

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Re: Pickleshare fail (Cant pickle type 'instancemethod') OR adding node references to pickleshare

[Ville M. Vainio]

You can store gnx (get it by p.gnx). Gnx can then be used to rediscover the
position.

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Fidel Pérez fidelpe...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi, Im having the following error:


 PicklingError: Can't pickle type 'instancemethod': attribute lookup 
 __builtin__.instancemethod failed
 
   line 486: compressed = zlib.compress(pickle.dumps(
 * line 487: val, pickle.HIGHEST_PROTOCOL))
   line 488: fileobj.write(compressed)
   line 489:


 It is because I am trying to add a node reference into pickleshare, this
 way:


 c.db['Tree_SelectedNode']=c.p.copy()


 How can I add node references to pickleshare?


 When I do g.es(c.p.v) I see this:

 vnode 76038384:'Python 2.7'

 I could just refer that vnode number, but for that, I should be able to
 get c.p back out of that vnode number. Is that possible?


 Thank you.

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Why is node expansion state still stored in outline?

[Ville M. Vainio]

I think we have talked about this several times in the past :).

The node expansion state is stored in the .leo file, routinely causing
merge conflicts.

E.g.

v t=ville.20130529111535.2215 a=EvhBlah blah/vh/v

If there is a setting to store in c.db, it should be enabled by default.

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Re: Why is node expansion state still stored in outline?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Expansion state is mostly locally interesting infomation. The exact reason
to move expansion state to c.db would be to avoid synchronization problems
when same leo file is edited in different places.

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 6/12/2013 8:33 AM, Ville M. Vainio wrote:

 I think we have talked about this several times in the past :).

 The node expansion state is stored in the .leo file, routinely causing
 merge conflicts.

 E.g.

 v t=ville.20130529111535.2215 a=EvhBlah blah/vh/v

 If there is a setting to store in c.db, it should be enabled by default.


  Those who work on the same .leo from many different machines would have
 a problem with that if they don't sync their DBs... and I've learned the
 hard way that syncing the DB with some programs (SpiderOak) while Leo is
 running can cause data-loss crashes.

 Not an argument for or against moving to c.db, just something to note.
 --Jake

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Re: Why is node expansion state still stored in outline?

[Ville M. Vainio]

If you want to higlight something, it's better to do that with:

- Clone: make a clone and put it as first node
- Tell the UNL

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:

  On 6/12/2013 8:43 AM, Ville M. Vainio wrote:

 Expansion state is mostly locally interesting infomation. The exact reason
 to move expansion state to c.db would be to avoid synchronization problems
 when same leo file is edited in different places.

  I agree, for the most part.  However, what about the case of someone
 trying to highlight a particular part of the outline?  They could expand
 the node, save the file, and share it.

 I think that the best way to approach this is to have it be an option on a
 per-outline basis.  Perhaps a `@settings - @bool
 save-expansion-data-to-leo-file = True` in files/myLeoSettings.leo where
 users want the expansion data saved to the file instead of the DB?

 --Jake

  On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Jacob Peck gatesph...@gmail.com wrote:

  On 6/12/2013 8:33 AM, Ville M. Vainio wrote:

 I think we have talked about this several times in the past :).

 The node expansion state is stored in the .leo file, routinely causing
 merge conflicts.

 E.g.

 v t=ville.20130529111535.2215 a=EvhBlah blah/vh/v

 If there is a setting to store in c.db, it should be enabled by default.


   Those who work on the same .leo from many different machines would
 have a problem with that if they don't sync their DBs... and I've learned
 the hard way that syncing the DB with some programs (SpiderOak) while Leo
 is running can cause data-loss crashes.

 Not an argument for or against moving to c.db, just something to note.
 --Jake

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Re: Why is node expansion state still stored in outline?

[Ville M. Vainio]

Thanks for the tip/reminder. Any particular reason why this is not False by
default?

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Edward K. Ream edream...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 7:33 AM, Ville M. Vainio vivai...@gmail.comwrote:

 I think we have talked about this several times in the past :).

 The node expansion state is stored in the .leo file, routinely causing
 merge conflicts.


 You can use::

 @bool put_expansion_bits_in_leo_files = False

 Edward

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