Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-22 Thread Alfredo Lopez 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/22/2013 03:08 PM, Jacob Appelbaum wrote:
> micah:
>> Eugen Leitl  writes:
>> 
>>> On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 03:07:35PM +0200, ilf wrote:
>>> 
 I can't believe this bullshit thread recommending *only* 
 commercial services.
>>> 

This is a complicated issue and we at May First/People Link (as is the
case with Micah of Rise-Up) know that first-hand. In fact, since we
partner with Rise-Up on many activities the lessons we learn are
frequently shared.

The main lesson here isn't who is full-proof. Nobody is. It's who will
fight the longest and hardest and in fullest collaboration with you.
In short, who is (dare I say it?) a comrade. :-)

Just as background: as a membership organization (I mean
really...members vote and everything), we all pay dues, no one pays
for services and our entire organization commits itself to preserving
the integrity and activity of all member websites and email accounts.
Period. We're challenged all the time in that arena and we take them
on legally and politically and technologically.

But the issue is "how you fight that fight and win it" and that
depends on your definition of "win". The biggest threat to our
members' sites isn't cyber-attacks and denial of service (which we
successfully fight off all the time) but legal attacks like Copyright
violation complaints which, in the United States, are almost
impossible to fight off, The complainant will, a day or two after you
tell it to get lost, go to your upstream provider and none of those
outfits is principled enough to take a stand for free speech when
threatened with costly legal action. Upstream connection goes,
hundreds of members lose their websites and email. This is serious
business.

So you're looking, in the U.S. anyway, for a service provider that
will move things around, weave and duck technologically, to keep you
on-line as long as possible until having to take you off. You're
searching for people who will spend as long as necessary to keep you
on-line when you're under DOS attack. And you're looking for a
provider which will, when pushed, make a fuss publicly and make an
issue of it when possible. Because you're looking for a provider that
wants to build a movement with you and denial of your right to
expression is an issue upon which we can continue building our movements.

I think those three are the criteria.

The Internet is a field of struggle -- it's not the plumbing in a
movement's house. Yes, you want efficient service. No, you can't pay a
lot of money. But you also want a provider that will treat this issue
as denial of a right and who is ready to organize around it and you
want to support that provider's continuous existence. No provider of
this type will deny a politically important website a home because of
lack of money; they will always work something out with you. There are
providers like that in most parts of the world; I think we all should
be seeking them out and working with them. :-)

Abrazos,

Alfredo


>>> Look, free is distinctly unaffordable. If you need a dedicated
>>> box somebody has got to pay for the hosting and remote hands.
>>> Activists donating own resources are quite nice and cool (heck,
>>> been there, done that) but ultimatively you can't rely on them
>>> to be there if the shit hits it.
>> 
>> Can't rely on them to be there for what exactly?
> 
> To be fair - some activist communities just aren't holding the
> five nines that other companies hold up as marketing material. ;-)
> 
>> 
>> Where is the liberatory technological element to recommending 
>> commercial services when they are more than happy when the "shit
>> hits it" to bend over backwards for law enforcement without
>> bothering even questioning if the request is even legal because
>> that would cut into their profits?  I have to say I agree with
>> ilf, this is pretty depressing for this list.
> 
> I thought about the sheer number of people trying to compromise
> some of my most public systems. The trade-off was one where I
> stopped worrying as much about buggy software and traded it for a
> legal attacks; I did so knowing that if I were to lose, I would
> still *win* in that I would learn something and set an undeniable
> example and if I were to win outright, I'd have defended my or
> access to such systems successfully. Thus I actually selected
> Google, Twitter and other service providers to test a theory about
> how companies might act when pressed. Each company has law budgets
> that greatly exceed the amount of money I could ever hope to raise
> or spend on my own. After all is said and done - their brands rely
> on people believing that they're good and will fight for their
> users.
> 
> I actually told the FBI about this strategy during a Q&A in NYC -
> which if you haven't seen it is ... well, lets say, I wasn't the
> only one who thought it was funny:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTuxoLDnmJU
> 
> In short - there are companies that will go to

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-22 Thread Jacob Appelbaum 
 micah:
> Eugen Leitl  writes:
> 
>> On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 03:07:35PM +0200, ilf wrote:
>> 
>>> I can't believe this bullshit thread recommending *only*
>>> commercial services.
>> 
>> Look, free is distinctly unaffordable. If you need a dedicated box
>> somebody has got to pay for the hosting and remote hands. Activists
>> donating own resources are quite nice and cool (heck, been there,
>> done that) but ultimatively you can't rely on them to be there if
>> the shit hits it.
> 
> Can't rely on them to be there for what exactly?

To be fair - some activist communities just aren't holding the five
nines that other companies hold up as marketing material. ;-)

> 
> Where is the liberatory technological element to recommending
> commercial services when they are more than happy when the "shit hits
> it" to bend over backwards for law enforcement without bothering even
> questioning if the request is even legal because that would cut into
> their profits?  I have to say I agree with ilf, this is pretty
> depressing for this list.

I thought about the sheer number of people trying to compromise some of
my most public systems. The trade-off was one where I stopped worrying
as much about buggy software and traded it for a legal attacks; I did so
knowing that if I were to lose, I would still *win* in that I would
learn something and set an undeniable example and if I were to win
outright, I'd have defended my or access to such systems successfully.
Thus I actually selected Google, Twitter and other service providers to
test a theory about how companies might act when pressed. Each company
has law budgets that greatly exceed the amount of money I could ever
hope to raise or spend on my own. After all is said and done - their
brands rely on people believing that they're good and will fight for
their users.

I actually told the FBI about this strategy during a Q&A in NYC - which
if you haven't seen it is ... well, lets say, I wasn't the only one who
thought it was funny:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTuxoLDnmJU

In short - there are companies that will go to court and even, if you're
lucky, spend *millions* of dollars on defending you because it is their
business model by proxy that they're defending. Not all companies will
do this though. Boy oh boy, the companies that did attempt to protect my
data versus the companies that didn't or didn't/don't have the ability
to tell me is _very_ low. I'd guess it is around three known actors with
likely over one hundred others at the bare minimum. That's just for
active accounts, I might add. I believe there was a lot of data sitting
around in logs and other places where I had not consented to the
collection (AT&T) and naturally such collectors don't notify or ask for
your consent in such a case...

So, lets say that the company goes to court for you. What will it matter
practically?

Well, I think it depends on the technical *and* social architecture of
the system as it is constructed, run and maintained.

The question that comes to mind about architecture is one that most
people on this list generally dismiss out of hand. It happens for VPNs
vs Tor, email hosting, chatting, web browsers, etc, etc.

We should consider that if the architecture of a system, even a mostly
*technically* secure system, is optimized for surveillance to the
company's benefit - it *will* almost certainly be forced to hand your
data over when ordered. Simply because it *is able to do so* at all,
we've learned that the law in the US is interpreted to suggest that such
companies must and they must do so silently. And it seems to be the case
that when the US has no legal recourse, it may use other methods for
jurisdictions beyond their direct legal reach. It might happen through
legal means, it might happen through general blackhattery, it might
happen through kidnapping a family member - compliance is possible and
there exists a case where compliance *will* happen. I have a friend who
said that in the days following the seizure of my telephone by the US
Government that his entire home network was compromised and that
included his X-Box. That is a lot of 0day to burn and I think
intelligence related folks are really in the golden era of their industry.

And when that happens, it won't matter if they had gone court for you in
a practical sense - the data is in the hands of whoever wanted it. It
may or may not be used in court - that is largely irrelevant as life is
often made miserable by things outside of courts. As an example Replace
legal threats with say, threats from the Zeta Cartel rather than threats
from a US Court and we see how strongly these systems will stand up.

Absent an attacker, many systems are secure and so, what is the ultimate
stopping block when such an attacker is present?

Not having the information, of course. Or having it in an encrypted
format such that it is useless without the user consenting to decryption
in some privacy preserving manner. We generally call this Priv

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-22 Thread Jon Camfield 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 04/18/2013 04:45 PM, Hisham wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Activists whose sites come under attack struggle to find cheap
> solutions to keep their websites safely guarded. Many of them are
> looking for secure, inexpensive hosting. I've come across many such
> cases, from Senegal, to Zambia to Egypt to Morocco. Some of them
> ask for temporary hosting to be able to stay online until they can
> stand on their feet again.
> 
> I'd be grateful if someone could help with this one. Are there
> secure and inexpensive solutions out there?
> 
> Best,
> 
> -- Hisham Almiraat

For the hosting side, you should also look at VirtualRoad; I've
recently been working with their team on a humanitarian site, and
they've been nothing but amazing.

For DDoS protection, there is also Deflect.ca - it's an open source
DDoS mitigation tool (any group can set a Deflect system up for a
family of sites using a collection of low-cost virtual servers), and
it is also providing this as a free service to qualifying sites
(independent media, human rights, and related).  The benefit of this
is that you can set it up before an attack; it adds a level of
security to your site, speeds it up, and you keep 100% control over
the site itself.

Jon

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
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=MaI7
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-22 Thread Travis McCrea 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Either I missed it, or it wasn't posted: dod.net is a wonderful 501(c)3
which has a great distributed network of servers and is super big on
privacy protection and their clients data.

It's free to host with them, but they ask for donations.

Also BuyVM.net has also been a great host that even up until recently
let you run tor exit nodes. Francisco (the owner) has a liberal policy
towards linking, and allows torrent trackers (with the official line
that they can't track copyrighted material) which is great for
dissemination of large files like wikileaks archives.

dod.net is shared hosting, with a jailed SSH. buyvm.net is a VPS.

Eugen Leitl wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 09:26:05PM -0400, micah wrote:
> 
>> Can't rely on them to be there for what exactly?
> 
> Just being there and responsive for the entire duration you need
> them.
> 
>> Where is the liberatory technological element to recommending
>> commercial
> 
> The liberatory technological element is to use distributed services 
> not linkable to a certain specific server or location. You're
> welcome.
> 
>> services when they are more than happy when the "shit hits it" to
>> bend over backwards for law enforcement without bothering even
>> questioning if
> 
> Have you ever heard of bullet proof hosting? Do you think that
> snowshoe spammer and carder and malware hosters care a damn thing
> about the content they host?
> 
>> the request is even legal because that would cut into their
>> profits?  I
> 
> Very simple: they do not care whether it's legal. Their business
> model is that they don't care, as long as the account gets paid.
> 
>> have to say I agree with ilf, this is pretty depressing for this
>> list.
> 
> You'll get used to it. I did.
> 
>> How can anyone in good conscience recommend to activists
>> commercial services whose primary goal is to optimize for the
>> bottom line? You
> 
> How can anyone engage in strawmen of such appalling quality?
> 
>> realize that when "the shit hits it" you can rely on them to not
>> waste any of their money fighting for you. Not that it matters,
>> because they are already deupitized data collection points for the
>> police, building into their money-making schemes keeping as much
>> logs as they possibily can to maximize profits from various
>> advertising and surveillance efforts.
>> 
>> And really, Cloudflare? Comon. After their willingness to roll over
>> on
> 
> What about Cloudflare? Can't recall mentioning them.
> 
>> the subpoena for Barret Brown and prentend that they were the
>> internet's saviors by making up that whole thing about how they
>> saved the internet from the biggest DDOS ever?
>> 
>> This is an amazing statement: "free is distinctly unaffordable" --
>> what meaning of "free" are you using here?  There are other things
>> that I'd
> 
> Free, as in free beer.
> 
>> pay *more* money for if it meant the kind of free that I'm thinking
>> of was in play... But this is 'liberationtech', right? Is the only
>> thing you are concerned about is being liberated from your money
>> when doing tech things?
>> 
>> The cognitive dissonance here is deafening.
> 
> How would you know? -- Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to
> digest, or change password by emailing moderator at
> compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin)
Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJRdUWqAAoJEES9cOv0A0l0TlgIAMTcfmxdqmJmNtAjJxNmoXtV
hz7QZIRdJQ7uhfjcVXmeFrb8SYGujkNBy9QJGNhuiOfKWrYiDoj4lLNe++5eAB5g
av6DT7DegXF1Ep0iyXYY/cSTCVKFCl5n6NEObb+gyqrDavUiPNfD5xXHtuBm6Qw5
nWzOt1Rkj4G8C9jbUQI0ZxixCQO2fRi7p6TYGiRjoOmOnUBauMwByn2m9/NAjxJ+
D+xapIhsI16KNxwZ4a2DYraHdqXoXEPjXe3HSu6BmGQP0PCf4lRJnzJQ/ZZ1Po74
v1M7F0SZXQK/41rmTux4eyoM++VYIA8p+r7QAbIFihCFg8OXWGra/1o9y9wuSEA=
=xV4C
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-22 Thread Eugen Leitl 
On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 09:26:05PM -0400, micah wrote:

> Can't rely on them to be there for what exactly? 

Just being there and responsive for the entire duration
you need them. 
 
> Where is the liberatory technological element to recommending commercial

The liberatory technological element is to use distributed services
not linkable to a certain specific server or location. You're welcome.

> services when they are more than happy when the "shit hits it" to bend
> over backwards for law enforcement without bothering even questioning if

Have you ever heard of bullet proof hosting? Do you think that snowshoe
spammer and carder and malware hosters care a damn thing about the content 
they host?

> the request is even legal because that would cut into their profits?  I

Very simple: they do not care whether it's legal. Their business model
is that they don't care, as long as the account gets paid.

> have to say I agree with ilf, this is pretty depressing for this list.

You'll get used to it. I did.
 
> How can anyone in good conscience recommend to activists commercial
> services whose primary goal is to optimize for the bottom line? You

How can anyone engage in strawmen of such appalling quality?

> realize that when "the shit hits it" you can rely on them to not waste
> any of their money fighting for you. Not that it matters, because they
> are already deupitized data collection points for the police, building
> into their money-making schemes keeping as much logs as they possibily
> can to maximize profits from various advertising and surveillance
> efforts.
> 
> And really, Cloudflare? Comon. After their willingness to roll over on

What about Cloudflare? Can't recall mentioning them.

> the subpoena for Barret Brown and prentend that they were the internet's
> saviors by making up that whole thing about how they saved the internet
> from the biggest DDOS ever? 
>  
> This is an amazing statement: "free is distinctly unaffordable" -- what
> meaning of "free" are you using here?  There are other things that I'd

Free, as in free beer. 

> pay *more* money for if it meant the kind of free that I'm thinking of
> was in play... But this is 'liberationtech', right? Is the only thing
> you are concerned about is being liberated from your money when doing
> tech things?
> 
> The cognitive dissonance here is deafening.

How would you know?
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-21 Thread Andrew Harris 
Ehhh, it can block some stuff, but it's not bulletproof against DDoS
attacks and certainly not any sort of injection attack. And I certainly
wouldn't call it an anonymizer by any means whatsoever, considering that a
lot of people leave their direct A record in place (direct.example.com ->
IP behind the proxy), and MX records are often pointed directly at the
host, especially on shared hosting services. And yes, it can blog certain
DDOS attacks, but I wouldn't have to rack my brain to recall a few times
I've seen a site behind cloudflare be brought to its knees by req/s.

Cloudlfare is a tool and it's good at some things, and it seems like the
people at Cloudflare are pretty nice. But I would really only recommend it
for it's caching/CDN features, and I wouldn't count on it alone for
security or anonymization.


On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Nadim Kobeissi  wrote:

> While not technically a hosting solution, CloudFlare can definitely help
> secure websites against many common attacks. It's free and works with
> almost any hosting provider.
>
> https://www.cloudflare.com/
>
>
> NK
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Hisham  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Activists whose sites come under attack struggle to find cheap solutions
>> to keep their websites safely guarded. Many of them are looking for
>> secure, inexpensive hosting. I've come across many such cases, from
>> Senegal, to Zambia to Egypt to Morocco. Some of them ask for temporary 
>> hosting
>> to be able to stay online until they can stand on their feet again.
>>
>> I'd be grateful if someone could help with this one. Are there secure and
>> inexpensive solutions out there?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> --
>> Hisham Almiraat
>> almiraat.com 
>>
>> Director, Global Voices Advocacy
>> Co-founder, Mamfakinch.com 
>> @almiraat  | @advox
>> hisham_almiraat on Skype
>> Phone: +212662078778
>>
>> --
>> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by
>> emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>>
>
>
> --
> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by
> emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-21 Thread Brad Beckett 
I have the ability to host such hostile sites. E-mail me with your budget
and I'll let you know what I can do.

Our servers are highly optimized for performance and security of Wordpress
CMS.

Respectfully,

Brad Beckett


On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 6:26 PM, micah  wrote:

> Eugen Leitl  writes:
>
> > On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 03:07:35PM +0200, ilf wrote:
> >
> >> I can't believe this bullshit thread recommending *only* commercial
> >> services.
> >
> > Look, free is distinctly unaffordable. If you need a dedicated
> > box somebody has got to pay for the hosting and remote hands.
> > Activists donating own resources are quite nice and cool
> > (heck, been there, done that) but ultimatively you can't
> > rely on them to be there if the shit hits it.
>
> Can't rely on them to be there for what exactly?
>
> Where is the liberatory technological element to recommending commercial
> services when they are more than happy when the "shit hits it" to bend
> over backwards for law enforcement without bothering even questioning if
> the request is even legal because that would cut into their profits?  I
> have to say I agree with ilf, this is pretty depressing for this list.
>
> How can anyone in good conscience recommend to activists commercial
> services whose primary goal is to optimize for the bottom line? You
> realize that when "the shit hits it" you can rely on them to not waste
> any of their money fighting for you. Not that it matters, because they
> are already deupitized data collection points for the police, building
> into their money-making schemes keeping as much logs as they possibily
> can to maximize profits from various advertising and surveillance
> efforts.
>
> And really, Cloudflare? Comon. After their willingness to roll over on
> the subpoena for Barret Brown and prentend that they were the internet's
> saviors by making up that whole thing about how they saved the internet
> from the biggest DDOS ever?
>
> This is an amazing statement: "free is distinctly unaffordable" -- what
> meaning of "free" are you using here?  There are other things that I'd
> pay *more* money for if it meant the kind of free that I'm thinking of
> was in play... But this is 'liberationtech', right? Is the only thing
> you are concerned about is being liberated from your money when doing
> tech things?
>
> The cognitive dissonance here is deafening.
>
> --
> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by
> emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-21 Thread micah 
Eugen Leitl  writes:

> On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 03:07:35PM +0200, ilf wrote:
>
>> I can't believe this bullshit thread recommending *only* commercial  
>> services.
>
> Look, free is distinctly unaffordable. If you need a dedicated
> box somebody has got to pay for the hosting and remote hands.
> Activists donating own resources are quite nice and cool
> (heck, been there, done that) but ultimatively you can't 
> rely on them to be there if the shit hits it.

Can't rely on them to be there for what exactly? 

Where is the liberatory technological element to recommending commercial
services when they are more than happy when the "shit hits it" to bend
over backwards for law enforcement without bothering even questioning if
the request is even legal because that would cut into their profits?  I
have to say I agree with ilf, this is pretty depressing for this list.

How can anyone in good conscience recommend to activists commercial
services whose primary goal is to optimize for the bottom line? You
realize that when "the shit hits it" you can rely on them to not waste
any of their money fighting for you. Not that it matters, because they
are already deupitized data collection points for the police, building
into their money-making schemes keeping as much logs as they possibily
can to maximize profits from various advertising and surveillance
efforts.

And really, Cloudflare? Comon. After their willingness to roll over on
the subpoena for Barret Brown and prentend that they were the internet's
saviors by making up that whole thing about how they saved the internet
from the biggest DDOS ever? 
 
This is an amazing statement: "free is distinctly unaffordable" -- what
meaning of "free" are you using here?  There are other things that I'd
pay *more* money for if it meant the kind of free that I'm thinking of
was in play... But this is 'liberationtech', right? Is the only thing
you are concerned about is being liberated from your money when doing
tech things?

The cognitive dissonance here is deafening.

--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-21 Thread Andrés Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes 
yeah, and there's only one "Swedish Pirate Party" in the world:
http://organic.typepad.com/threeminds/2013/02/swedish-pirate-party.html
Best Regards | Cordiales Saludos | Grato,

Andrés L. Pacheco Sanfuentes

+1 (817) 271-9619


On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Eugen Leitl  wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 03:07:35PM +0200, ilf wrote:
>
>> I can't believe this bullshit thread recommending *only* commercial
>> services.
>
> Look, free is distinctly unaffordable. If you need a dedicated
> box somebody has got to pay for the hosting and remote hands.
> Activists donating own resources are quite nice and cool
> (heck, been there, done that) but ultimatively you can't
> rely on them to be there if the shit hits it.
>
>> How about checking out this list?
>> https://we.riseup.net/riseuphelp+en/radical-servers
> --
> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by 
> emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-21 Thread Eugen Leitl 
On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 03:07:35PM +0200, ilf wrote:

> I can't believe this bullshit thread recommending *only* commercial  
> services.

Look, free is distinctly unaffordable. If you need a dedicated
box somebody has got to pay for the hosting and remote hands.
Activists donating own resources are quite nice and cool
(heck, been there, done that) but ultimatively you can't 
rely on them to be there if the shit hits it.

> How about checking out this list?
> https://we.riseup.net/riseuphelp+en/radical-servers
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-21 Thread ilf 

Hisham:
Activists whose sites come under attack struggle to find cheap solutions to 
keep their websites safely guarded. Many of them are looking for 
secure, inexpensive hosting.


I can't believe this bullshit thread recommending *only* commercial 
services.


How about checking out this list?
https://we.riseup.net/riseuphelp+en/radical-servers

--
ilf

Über 80 Millionen Deutsche benutzen keine Konsole. Klick dich nicht weg!
-- Eine Initiative des Bundesamtes für Tastaturbenutzung
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-21 Thread Jens Christian Hillerup 
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Hisham  wrote:

> Activists whose sites come under attack struggle to find cheap solutions
> to keep their websites safely guarded. Many of them are looking for
> secure, inexpensive hosting. I've come across many such cases, from
> Senegal, to Zambia to Egypt to Morocco. Some of them ask for temporary hosting
> to be able to stay online until they can stand on their feet again.
>
> I'd be grateful if someone could help with this one. Are there secure and
> inexpensive solutions out there?
>

There's also NearlyFreeSpeech.net if you're OK with US companies. They are
cheap. They do charge for traffic, though, but stack it with CloudFlare as
Nadim pointed out and you're good, even in case of DDoS.

JC
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-21 Thread Eugen Leitl 
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 08:50:22PM +, Andreas Bader wrote:

> Hetzner Germany is pretty good.
> We use it since years and never had problems with it.

Hetzner is good and cheap (though no longer that
cheap) but they'll drop you like a hot potato
in case of ever the slightest problems.

I would definitely advise against considering Hetzner
a freedom-minded hosts.

For a current project (Zero State) we're using
http://1984.is/ ( https://www.1984hosting.com/ for 
non-Islenska UI).
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-20 Thread Chris Croome 
Hi

On Fri 19-Apr-2013 at 10:19:03PM +0100, Bill Best wrote:
> 
> This company has hosting in Iceland:
> 
> http://ecodissident.net

Thanks for the plug!

We can also provide shared hosting in Iceland based on the prices here:

https://webarch.net/shared-hosting

All the best

Chris

-- 
Webarchitects Co-operative
http://webarchitects.coop/
+44 114 276 9709
@webarchcoop
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-19 Thread Bill Best 
On 18 April 2013 21:45, Hisham  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Activists whose sites come under attack struggle to find cheap solutions to
> keep their websites safely guarded. Many of them are looking for secure,
> inexpensive hosting. I've come across many such cases, from Senegal, to
> Zambia to Egypt to Morocco. Some of them ask for temporary hosting to be
> able to stay online until they can stand on their feet again.
>
> I'd be grateful if someone could help with this one. Are there secure and
> inexpensive solutions out there?

This company has hosting in Iceland:

http://ecodissident.net

Their website says:

"Iceland benefits from an ongoing quest to protect and strengthen
modern freedom of expression, the Icelandic Modern Media Initiative:

Assembling elements from the best legislation in the world, Iceland
wants to become a global safe haven for journalists and new media that
are being threatened or harassed and want to take advantage of the
best protection available anywhere."

Regards

Bill
-- 
Community Media Association
http://www.commedia.org.uk/
http://twitter.com/community_media
http://www.facebook.com/CommunityMediaAssociation
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-19 Thread liberationtech 
On Fri, 19 Apr 2013 03:13:06 -0400
Shava Nerad  wrote:

> Doesn't cloudflare block Tor?  I've seen complaints from wordpress
> installations using their plugin...

Just so it's said, since most people won't read the tor-talk links
posted later in this thread:

No, cloudflare doesn't block tor explicitly. Here's a direct quote from
them:

"Justin (CloudFlare Support)
Apr 18 02:24 pm (PDT)

Hi, and thanks for contacting us today.

We don't have a particular position on TOR. All IPs are treated the
same -- so if suspicious activity was seen from an IP that happens to
be a TOR exit node then it'll be challenged by our system before it can
access a CloudFlare page. This is no different than any other IP that
might be doing something suspicious though. We haven't considered a
particular feature to bloc TOR access, but I can pass on the feedback
internally."

If only they understood the difference between TOR and Tor. :)

-- 
Andrew
http://tpo.is/contact
pgp 0x6B4D6475
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-19 Thread Shava Nerad 
Doesn't cloudflare block Tor?  I've seen complaints from wordpress
installations using their plugin...



Shava Nerad
shav...@gmail.com
On Apr 18, 2013 4:49 PM, "Nadim Kobeissi"  wrote:

> While not technically a hosting solution, CloudFlare can definitely help
> secure websites against many common attacks. It's free and works with
> almost any hosting provider.
>
> https://www.cloudflare.com/
>
>
> NK
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Hisham  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Activists whose sites come under attack struggle to find cheap solutions
>> to keep their websites safely guarded. Many of them are looking for
>> secure, inexpensive hosting. I've come across many such cases, from
>> Senegal, to Zambia to Egypt to Morocco. Some of them ask for temporary 
>> hosting
>> to be able to stay online until they can stand on their feet again.
>>
>> I'd be grateful if someone could help with this one. Are there secure and
>> inexpensive solutions out there?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> --
>> Hisham Almiraat
>> almiraat.com 
>>
>> Director, Global Voices Advocacy
>> Co-founder, Mamfakinch.com 
>> @almiraat  | @advox
>> hisham_almiraat on Skype
>> Phone: +212662078778
>>
>> --
>> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by
>> emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>>
>
>
> --
> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by
> emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-18 Thread Hisham 
Will be writing off list to those of you who offered help. Thanks for your
input and generosity.
Cheers,
H


On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 9:22 PM, Edouard Poitras wrote:

>  We offer such hosting for people in this exact scenario.  Nothing as
> robust as CloudFlare in terms of DDoS resistance, but certainly secure (and
> free).  We also offer to host the DNS.
>
> Typically a site will just want to be back up as soon as possible with
> web-ftp access, but we can also put in the time with the victim in order to
> extensively secure the site using Nginx + Naxsi.
>
> Contact me if you need more information.
>
> -Eddie
>
>
> On 13-04-18 04:45 PM, Hisham wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
>  Activists whose sites come under attack struggle to find cheap solutions
> to keep their websites safely guarded. Many of them are looking for
> secure, inexpensive hosting. I've come across many such cases, from
> Senegal, to Zambia to Egypt to Morocco. Some of them ask for temporary hosting
> to be able to stay online until they can stand on their feet again.
>
>  I'd be grateful if someone could help with this one. Are there secure
> and inexpensive solutions out there?
>
>
> --
> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by
> emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>



-- 
Hisham Almiraat
almiraat.com 

Director, Global Voices Advocacy 
Co-founder, Mamfakinch.com 
@almiraat  | @advox
hisham_almiraat on Skype
Phone: +212662078778
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-18 Thread Edouard Poitras 
We offer such hosting for people in this exact scenario.  Nothing as
robust as CloudFlare in terms of DDoS resistance, but certainly secure
(and free).  We also offer to host the DNS.

Typically a site will just want to be back up as soon as possible with
web-ftp access, but we can also put in the time with the victim in order
to extensively secure the site using Nginx + Naxsi.

Contact me if you need more information.

-Eddie

On 13-04-18 04:45 PM, Hisham wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Activists whose sites come under attack struggle to find cheap
> solutions to keep their websites safely guarded. Many of them are
> looking for secure, inexpensive hosting. I've come across many such
> cases, from Senegal, to Zambia to Egypt to Morocco. Some of them ask
> for temporary hosting to be able to stay online until they can stand
> on their feet again.
>
> I'd be grateful if someone could help with this one. Are there secure
> and inexpensive solutions out there?
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-18 Thread Griffin Boyce 
>
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 4:56 PM, xek3149  wrote:
>
>>  The problem with Cloudflare is that it is difficult to connect to sites
>>> using Tor. Either they (Cloudflare) are blocking Tor outright or they are
>>> restricting the number of connections per IP address.
>>>
>>
  Here's the discussion of Cloudflare's policy on Tor, for those
interested:
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2013-April/027945.html
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-18 Thread Griffin Boyce 
Nadim Kobeissi  wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 4:56 PM, xek3149  wrote:
>
>> The problem with Cloudflare is that it is difficult to connect to sites
>> using Tor. Either they (Cloudflare) are blocking Tor outright or they are
>> restricting the number of connections per IP address.
>>
> Are there any references regarding this? I've always been able to access
> Cloudflare-protected websites through Tor.
>

  As have I.  There's an ongoing discussion in the tor-talk list about it.
 Looks like they throttle connections from Tor exits based on abuse (etc),
but don't block entirely.

~Griffin
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-18 Thread Nadim Kobeissi 
On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 4:56 PM, xek3149  wrote:

> The problem with Cloudflare is that it is difficult to connect to sites
> using Tor. Either they (Cloudflare) are blocking Tor outright or they are
> restricting the number of connections per IP address.
>
Are there any references regarding this? I've always been able to access
Cloudflare-protected websites through Tor.


> () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
> /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
> On Apr 18, 2013 3:49 PM, "Nadim Kobeissi"  wrote:
>
>> While not technically a hosting solution, CloudFlare can definitely help
>> secure websites against many common attacks. It's free and works with
>> almost any hosting provider.
>>
>> https://www.cloudflare.com/
>>
>>
>> NK
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Hisham  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Activists whose sites come under attack struggle to find cheap
>>> solutions to keep their websites safely guarded. Many of them are looking
>>> for secure, inexpensive hosting. I've come across many such cases, from
>>> Senegal, to Zambia to Egypt to Morocco. Some of them ask for temporary 
>>> hosting
>>> to be able to stay online until they can stand on their feet again.
>>>
>>> I'd be grateful if someone could help with this one. Are there secure
>>> and inexpensive solutions out there?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> --
>>> Hisham Almiraat
>>> almiraat.com 
>>>
>>> Director, Global Voices Advocacy
>>> Co-founder, Mamfakinch.com 
>>> @almiraat  | @advox
>>> hisham_almiraat on Skype
>>> Phone: +212662078778
>>>
>>> --
>>> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by
>>> emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings
>>> at https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by
>> emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>>
>
> --
> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by
> emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-18 Thread xek3149 
The problem with Cloudflare is that it is difficult to connect to sites
using Tor. Either they (Cloudflare) are blocking Tor outright or they are
restricting the number of connections per IP address.

() ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
On Apr 18, 2013 3:49 PM, "Nadim Kobeissi"  wrote:

> While not technically a hosting solution, CloudFlare can definitely help
> secure websites against many common attacks. It's free and works with
> almost any hosting provider.
>
> https://www.cloudflare.com/
>
>
> NK
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Hisham  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Activists whose sites come under attack struggle to find cheap solutions
>> to keep their websites safely guarded. Many of them are looking for
>> secure, inexpensive hosting. I've come across many such cases, from
>> Senegal, to Zambia to Egypt to Morocco. Some of them ask for temporary 
>> hosting
>> to be able to stay online until they can stand on their feet again.
>>
>> I'd be grateful if someone could help with this one. Are there secure and
>> inexpensive solutions out there?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> --
>> Hisham Almiraat
>> almiraat.com 
>>
>> Director, Global Voices Advocacy
>> Co-founder, Mamfakinch.com 
>> @almiraat  | @advox
>> hisham_almiraat on Skype
>> Phone: +212662078778
>>
>> --
>> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by
>> emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at
>> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>>
>
>
> --
> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by
> emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-18 Thread Griffin Boyce 
Nadim Kobeissi  wrote:

> While not technically a hosting solution, CloudFlare can definitely help
> secure websites against many common attacks. It's free and works with
> almost any hosting provider.
>
> https://www.cloudflare.com/
>

  Seconded.  It also helps hide one's hosting provider.  One project I know
of was hosted somewhere in Kyrgyzstan, and used CloudFlare to keep their
host from getting attacked.

best,
Griffin

-- 
Please note that I do not have PGP access at this time.
OTR: sa...@jabber.ccc.de / fonta...@jabber.ccc.de
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-18 Thread Andreas Bader 
Hisham:
> Hi all,
> 
> Activists whose sites come under attack struggle to find cheap solutions to
> keep their websites safely guarded. Many of them are looking for
> secure, inexpensive hosting. I've come across many such cases, from
> Senegal, to Zambia to Egypt to Morocco. Some of them ask for temporary hosting
> to be able to stay online until they can stand on their feet again.
> 
> I'd be grateful if someone could help with this one. Are there secure and
> inexpensive solutions out there?
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by 
> emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
> 
Hetzner Germany is pretty good.
We use it since years and never had problems with it.

Andreas
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech

Re: [liberationtech] Secure, inexpensive hosting of activist sites

2013-04-18 Thread Nadim Kobeissi 
While not technically a hosting solution, CloudFlare can definitely help
secure websites against many common attacks. It's free and works with
almost any hosting provider.

https://www.cloudflare.com/


NK


On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 4:45 PM, Hisham  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Activists whose sites come under attack struggle to find cheap solutions
> to keep their websites safely guarded. Many of them are looking for
> secure, inexpensive hosting. I've come across many such cases, from
> Senegal, to Zambia to Egypt to Morocco. Some of them ask for temporary hosting
> to be able to stay online until they can stand on their feet again.
>
> I'd be grateful if someone could help with this one. Are there secure and
> inexpensive solutions out there?
>
> Best,
>
> --
> Hisham Almiraat
> almiraat.com 
>
> Director, Global Voices Advocacy 
> Co-founder, Mamfakinch.com 
> @almiraat  | @advox
> hisham_almiraat on Skype
> Phone: +212662078778
>
> --
> Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by
> emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at
> https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech
>
--
Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by emailing 
moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at 
https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech