Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[David Tardon]

On Thu, 2019-06-27 at 15:22 +0100, Michael Meeks wrote:
> + fuzzit https://fuzzit.dev/ available
>   + offering things to OSS projects – but looks like oss-fuzz
>   + seem to be pushing hard to encourage people to use it
>   + may look on return from vacation

For the record, there is also https://fuzzbuzz.io/ , which appears to
be another of the same. (Automatic fuzzing is becoming popular, eh?)
But I don't think there's much value in using another service that uses
the same fuzzing engine(s) internally...

D.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[M Henri Day]

Den tors 27 juni 2019 kl 16:23 skrev Michael Meeks <
michael.me...@collabora.com>:

> * Present:
> + Sophie, Kendy, Oliver, Christian, Stephan, Michael S, Michael W
>   Michael M, Caolan, Gabriel, Eike, Xisco, Thorsten, Heiko
>
> * Completed Action Items:
> + send Arkadij a welcome mail (Stephan)
>
> * Pending Action Items:
>
> * Release Engineering update (Christian)
> + 6.2.5 rc2
>   + tagged yesterday
>   + 2 patches in gerrit that didn’t make it
>   + builds on the pre-release server → mirror network later today
> + 6.2.6 rc1 – due end of July
> + 6.3.0 rc1 – next week
>   + hard string & UI freeze.
>   + from rc1 – 1x review required for fixes libreoffice-6-3
>   + for now no review, just fixes.
> + Remotes
> + Android viewer
> + Online
>
> * Documentation (Olivier)
> + New Help (no news)
>+ seems to work correctly.
> + Helpcontent2
>+ Housekeeping, de-dup bookmarks (G. Kelemen)
>+ Bug fixes and updates (olivier, LibreOfficiant)
> + Google Seasons of Doc
>+ Deadline for Tech writer submission is tomorrow (28)
> + Guides
>+ Update Calc Guide
>   + more chapters updated
>   + Need support on Solver engines (mail to list) (Steve Fanning)
>   + would love help from a calc developer.
>
> * UX Update (Heiko)
> + Bugzilla (topicUI) statistics
> 236(236) (topicUI) bugs open, 217(217) (needsUXEval) needs to be
> evaluated by the UXteam
> + Updates:
> BZ changes   1 week1 month   3 months   12 months
>  added  6(-5) 27(3) 38(4)   81(3)
>  commented 54(-31)   200(36)   441(20)1410(33)
>removed  0(0)   0(0)  3(0)   18(0)
>   resolved  1(-3)  9(-1)31(-4) 135(0)
> + top 10 contributors:
>   Thomas Lendo made 60 changes in 1 month, and 246 changes in 1
> year
>   Heiko Tietze made 47 changes in 1 month, and 50 changes in 1 year
>   Foote, V Stuart made 43 changes in 1 month, and 222 changes in 1
> year
>   Tietze, Heiko made 42 changes in 1 month, and 522 changes in 1
> year
>   Dieter Praas made 35 changes in 1 month, and 131 changes in 1
> year
>   kompilainenn made 35 changes in 1 month, and 217 changes in 1
> year
>   Cor Nouws made 22 changes in 1 month, and 117 changes in 1 year
>   Xisco Faulí made 21 changes in 1 month, and 250 changes in 1 year
>   Mehrbrodt, Samuel made 19 changes in 1 month, and 87 changes in
> 1 year
>   Telesto made 19 changes in 1 month, and 53 changes in 1 year
>  + New needsUXEval between Jun/21-27
>
>* TABLE AUTOFORMAT: Rename dialog to table styles
>  + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=126050
>* FORMATTING
>  + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=126047
>=> WFM
>
>* CHAPTER NUMBERING DIALOG: Give option to seperate different
> chapter
>  levels with a dash
>  + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=125993
>* [Website] Download page should support non-English users better
>  + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=125961
>* Implement the Sidebar in Math formula editor, with decks for
> format
>  options and Greek and special symbols
>  + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=125931
>* Enhancement: Tables, Pagebreak: "keep with next row" feature
>  + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=125972
>=> UNCONFIRMED/in discussion
>
> -> * Show short tooltip before the extended tooltip
>  + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=125999
>* Increasing margin size does not reflect new constraints for header
>  values without closing and reopening the Page Style dialog
>  + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=126009
>=> NEW
>
> -> * Icon styles should not modify official application icons in start
>  center (and other relevant places)
>  + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=126074
>+ should we have a strong branding of app-icons ?
>+ different views, easy-recognized branded icons or … customizable.
>  + no technical basis here (Michael)
>=> interesting
>
> + blog-post published yesterday about easy-hacking:
>+ examples on how to create a new dialog:
>+
> https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2019/06/26/how-to-create-a-new-dialog/
>+ really useful – good work (Michael)
>
>
> * Crash Testing (Caolan)
> + Crash testing:
>   + 8(-1) import failure, 3(-186) export failures
>   + stable, Michael S fixed an assert in here
>   + 2 are crashers in pivot table export
>   + writer are exceptions / problems in non-idle layout case
> + Google 

Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Caolán McNamara]

On Thu, 2019-05-02 at 15:44 +0100, Michael Meeks wrote:
> + Crash testing:

I meant to mention that I also refreshed the collection of files we
test, so its now up to 113070 documents

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Xisco Fauli]

Hi Michael,

> + UI testing tool update ?
>   + Code is in 
> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/contrib/dev-tools/tree/uitest/mass-testing
>   + Calc: Found some crashes related to the dynamic number of columns work
>   - E.g. 
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=124818
>   - Noel fixing them
>   + Writer: Many files crashing with paste + undo
>   - Mostly related to 
>   https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117215
> + inherited from OpenOffice
>   - 13800 crashes in crashreport of this signature → 
> https://crashreport.libreoffice.org/stats/signature/BigPtrArray::Index2Block(unsigned%20long)
> + what is a big number for traces ? (Michael)
>+ difficult to tell (Xisco)
>   + don’t know in total; think it’s a big #
>   + tested 2500 files, and 30 crash.

I've just remembered we can retrieve the total number of crashes from
the crashreport API [1], so the crash mentioned above represents the 0.3
of the total

Regards

[1] http://crashreport.libreoffice.org/api/get/crash-count


-- 
Xisco Faulí
Libreoffice QA Team
IRC: x1sc0


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Thorsten Behrens]

Michael Meeks wrote:
> * GSOC 2019 (Xisco)
> AI: Submit proposal (Thorsten/Heiko/Xisco)
> 
Done.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Heiko Tietze]

On 06.12.18 17:51, Michael Meeks wrote:
> Hi Markus,
> 
> On 06/12/2018 16:46, Markus Mohrhard wrote:
>>          + minor complaint wrt. single Chart save removal in calc
>> (Heiko)
>>             + how to know ? - checkout release notes
>>  
>> These people should feel free to complain to me. However the removal was
>> necessary and long overdue. Actually, the feature was responsible for
>> many regressions and was originally intended by me for debugging purposes.
> 
>   Amusing =) Heiko would know those involved I guess.

Of course it was necessary. I mentioned the irritation just as a reminder to 
acknowledge everyone about changes. If it was announces at the ESC people can 
blame me to not forward the info :-).



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Michael Meeks]

Hi Markus,

On 06/12/2018 16:46, Markus Mohrhard wrote:
>          + minor complaint wrt. single Chart save removal in calc
> (Heiko)
>             + how to know ? - checkout release notes
>  
> These people should feel free to complain to me. However the removal was
> necessary and long overdue. Actually, the feature was responsible for
> many regressions and was originally intended by me for debugging purposes.

Amusing =) Heiko would know those involved I guess.

> perftest is not running on gandalf, instead on vm139. 
> 
> As I'm one of the main users of gandalf (e.g. update, UI testing, random
> config) and some more exotic builds not managed by jenkins I will try to
> take care of the update during the weekend.

Thanks so much for that ! seems like that one machine does a lot.

ATB,

Michael.

-- 
michael.me...@collabora.com <><, GM Collabora Productivity
Hangout: mejme...@gmail.com, Skype: mmeeks
(M) +44 7795 666 147 - timezone usually UK / Europe
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Markus Mohrhard]

Hey all,

On Thu, Dec 6, 2018 at 4:31 PM Michael Meeks 
wrote:

>  + minor complaint wrt. single Chart save removal in calc (Heiko)
> + how to know ? - checkout release notes
>
>

These people should feel free to complain to me. However the removal was
necessary and long overdue. Actually, the feature was responsible for many
regressions and was originally intended by me for debugging purposes.


> * Tinderbox bits (Stephan)
> + gandalf – too old compiler; keeps failing tinderboxen
>+ bit of a problem, needs SUSE goodwill to help us connect a
> console etc.
>+ can we not live-upgrade it ? (Thorsten)
>+ just needs a new gcc (Stephan)
>   + some SLES12 there – with internal repos etc. (Thorsten)
>  + in some odd state there.
>+ not eager to touch it unless we can afford to loose it (Thorsten)
> + rsync some container or other onto there ?
> + what jobs run there ? (Thorsten)
>+ lcov, perftest(?), random config,
>  UI testing, update, UI testing (Stephan, Christian)
>+ can we move jobs off it ?
>   + unclear if they have extra build deps ? (Christian)
>  + perhaps more sustainable to migrate this (Thorsten)
> + poke Guilhelm → to poke admins (Christian)
>


perftest is not running on gandalf, instead on vm139.

As I'm one of the main users of gandalf (e.g. update, UI testing, random
config) and some more exotic builds not managed by jenkins I will try to
take care of the update during the weekend. I already managed to get gperf
working but the SUSE network firewall blocks access to github so flex could
not be updated. The new compiler should be possible without major issues.

Regards,
Markus
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Thorsten Behrens]

Michael Meeks wrote:
> * Hackfests & Events (Thorsten)
>+ next year hackfests coming up:
>+ FOSDEM in February - 2 days before the conference expected.
>
Apologies, there's an off-by-one error:

tentative FOSDEM schedule is as follows:

Wednesday, January 30
 * Hackfest at betacowork

Thursday, January 31
 * Hackfest at betacowork
 * 1300-1800 board + ED meeting at betacowork

Friday, February 1
 * all day board + ED + MC + staff at betacowork

Cheers,

-- Thorsten


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Stephan Bergmann]

On 13/09/2018 16:35, Michael Meeks wrote:

* IRC channel (cloph)
+ Spam wave seems over/in control by freenode – keep +r?
+ should we keep restriction to only registered nicks.
+ up to moderators – why not just lift it for dev channel (Thorsten)


Had to enable it again now (after cloph had disabled it last night), as 
spammers started to appear again.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Kaganski Mike]

+ top 5 reviewers:
  Pootle bot made 2988 review comments in 1 month, and 2988 in 1 year

But was it awarded a t-shirt or something? :-)

--
Best regards,
Mike Kaganski
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Minutes of ESC call

[Thorsten Behrens]

Stephan Bergmann wrote:
> * Jean-Sebastien:
> + Linagora branch for French ministry (mimo branch)
> + Tell us name of desired branch, will be added (Thorsten)
> + Sub-branches even? Probably not needed
> 
Done - also added Jean-Sebastien as committer, otherwise the whole
branch exercise would be moot. Jean-Sebastien, please use the normal
gerrit code review process for master still for the moment.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Khaled Hosny]

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018, 4:50 PM Michael Meeks 
wrote:

>+ Tools > Options > Asian/CTL always active
>+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104318


The issue (at least the recent comment that revived it) argues that
disabling CTL (and by extension CJK) by default makes it much harder for
users of these scripts to use LibreOffice (which is my experience as well,
we have many reports of users failing to use such basic functionality
because it was hidden by default). So the fix it to actually make sure the
controls are always visible and may remove the option to hide them
altogether, not hiding them by default.

If the dialogs are cluttered, then they need to be organized not hiding
basic UI needed by a large segment of our users.

   + e.g. in tabs with Tools > Options > Language Settings > Default on
> top
>+ remove “For the current document only”
>+ would be happy if some developer looked at this (Michael)
>   + ideally with CTL experience.
>+ makes it more complex for those who don’t know CTL (Cloph)
>+ lots of work showing these only when there are hints (Caolan)
>   + start in a US locale – CJK document, turned off …
>   + but if any settings on the system that suggest CJK
> should be enabled
>


Often than not such heuristics fails.
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Noel Grandin]

e

On 7 June 2018 at 16:46, Michael Meeks  wrote:

>  + also looked at Windows build / CPU
> + total time ~50mins
>   + 5 minutes at the begin – checkout/dep gen.
>   + 8 min in middle & end – just 1 CPU core.
>   + 20mins – with just 1 core.
> + so should run concurrent builds to make better use of 32 threads
> + want to enable it in Jenkins for real builds.
>

​I've pushed a couple of Windows build improvements (e.g. building Python
in parallel) and I intend to push a few more, but mostly I'm focusing on
low hanging fruit e.g. new compiler and linker flags that we can take
advantage of now that we req​uire VS2015
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Minutes of ESC call: 2018-05-30

[Jan Iversen]

Enviado desde mi iPad

> El 30 may 2018, a las 18:38, Jan Holesovsky  escribió:
> 
> * Present:
>+ Thorsten, Kendy, Heiko, Noel, Olivier, Xisco, Bubli, Stephan, Sophie,
>  Michael W., Drew, Eike, Cloph
+ jani (I was the first, when you asked for names).
Rgds
Jan I.
> 
> * Completed Action Items:
> 
> * Pending Action Items:
> 
> * Release Engineering update (Christian)
>+ 6.0.5 – RC1 – this week.
>+ about to tag  
>+ 6.1.0 beta 1 status …
>+ out for a few days now
>+ beta 2 on June 12th – Cloph plans to do the Beta 2
>+ 6.1 late features
>+ calc threading default / fixing (Miklos)
>   + ongoing – more fixes this week.
>+ writer – red-lining re-factoring (Michael S)
>   + ongoing, to be pushed the next week hopefully
>   + switch to switch those 2
>+ KDE5 work (Bubli/Thorsten)
>   + canceled for 6.1, gets merged into master the next days, with the 
> view
> to ship it in 6.2 then
>+ Help format (Stephan)
>   + still trying to figure out how to make extension help work with 
> the
> new format
>+ Get-involved info-bar & Help/About menu (Michael)
>+ Renewed the Windows certificate for another year (watch out QA).
>+ Remotes
>+ iOS remote pending Apple’s approval.
>+ Android viewer
>+ Online
>+ waiting for -6-1 branch.
> 
> * Documentation (Olivier)
>+ New Help
> + Tested build with sberg : OK
> + has a localized build now
> + Discuss: Need a tinderbox to build offline new Help 
>+ “--with-help=html”
> + Tweaks for GDPR in online pages.
>+ Help Pages
> + fixes 
> + Doc bugs triaging.
>+ Guides
> + Sprint Revision week 
>  + 6 of 16 chapters ready for publication
>  + 10 more needed still, but progressing
>  + Missing team members
> 
> * UX Update (Heiko)
>+ Bugzilla (topicUI) statistics
>247(247) (topicUI) bugs open, 315(315) (needsUXEval)
>+ Updates:
>BZ changes   1 week   1 month3 months   12 months  
> added 1(-2)  7(-7) 33(-5) 103(-5) 
> commented 8(-32)   110(-67)   461(-51)   1890(-64)
>   removed 0(0)   0(0)   2(0)   11(0)  
>  resolved 2(1)   5(-1) 31(1)  180(0)  
>+ top 10 contributors:
>  Tietze, Heiko made 46 changes in 1 month, and 813 changes in 1 year
>  Pedro made 35 changes in 1 month, and 44 changes in 1 year
>  Cor Nouws made 14 changes in 1 month, and 155 changes in 1 year
>  Thomas Lendo made 12 changes in 1 month, and 395 changes in 1 year
>  Dieter Praas made 10 changes in 1 month, and 141 changes in 1 year
>  Xisco Faulí made 8 changes in 1 month, and 330 changes in 1 year
>  Foote, V Stuart made 8 changes in 1 month, and 265 changes in 1 year
>  Henschel, Regina made 7 changes in 1 month, and 107 changes in 1 year
>  Kainz, Andreas made 7 changes in 1 month, and 23 changes in 1 year
>  Buovjaga made 7 changes in 1 month, and 191 changes in 1 year
> 
>  + Late feature coming with flat MIME icons
>+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117456
>+ https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/54990/
>+ Andreas K. working on this
>+ documentation team informed
> 
> * Crash Reporting (Caolan)
>+ 6(-11) import failure, 3(+0) export failures
>   + 2 exports – mst layout asserts.
>   + fast-parser fix integrated.
>+ coverity
>+ ?? 6 (+3, -9)
>+ forcepoint round 7.
>+ ??
>+ oss-fuzz ?? (10 outstanding, 9 minor)
> 
> * Crash Reporting (Xisco)
>+ http://crashreport.libreoffice.org/stats/version/5.4.5.1 
>  + 650 (last 7 days) (+35)
>+ http://crashreport.libreoffice.org/stats/version/5.4.6.2 
>  + 724 (last 7 days) (+63)
>+ http://crashreport.libreoffice.org/stats/version/5.4.7.2
>  + 340 (last 7 days) (+116)
>+ http://crashreport.libreoffice.org/stats/version/6.0.3.2
>  + 1167 (last 7 days) (-165)
>+ http://crashreport.libreoffice.org/stats/version/6.0.4.2
>  + 1228 (last 7 days) (+216)
> 
> * Budget ranking (Thorsten)
>   + on ESC share - “Budget2018” - add your ranking.
> 
> * GSoC schedule (Heiko)
>   + Coding: May 14 - August 6
>   + please tell students to send a weekly status upate.
>   + Evaluation 1: June 11 - 15
>   + Evaluation 2: July 9 - 13
>   + Students Submit Code and Final Evaluations: August 6 - 14
>   + Mentors Submit Final Evaluations: August 14 - 21
>   + Results Announced: August 22
>   + https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/2018
> 
> * Hackfests & Events
>   + a hole here – potential one in Switzerland later in the year.
>   + call for papers for the LibreOffice Conference still ongoing! (Sophie)
>  + deadline: mid-July
> 
> * 

Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Stephan Bergmann]

On 26/04/18 16:36, Michael Meeks wrote:

 + create & circulate new ESC time poll & CC dev list (Heiko)
   => https://doodle.com/poll/567nszb5tfzfxue4


Even if the times in the poll are in UTC, I assume we are looking for a 
time that will float with the CET/CEST summer-time change again (as the 
current schedule does), right?

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Stephan Bergmann]

On 05/04/18 16:48, Michael Meeks wrote:

* Documentation (Olivier)
 + Help pages updated /fixes (G. Kelemen. S. Horacek, buovjaga,
   D. Roscek, ohallot, atimar, A. Gelmini)
 + (on going) wiki page on direct inline help page editing in gerrit
   (thanks to D. Ostrovsky, M. Kaganski, buovjaga)
+ should make fixing typos & small updates very easily.
+ should significantly improve editing efficiency & flow.


Unfortunately, appears that none of the Gerrit/Jenkins bots will 
actually check such changes (as none of them apparently uses 
--with-help=...).  Leads to broken master that needs fixing like 
 
"Updated core".  Can we get things improved there, making sure such 
changes are actually tested before they hit master?

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Minutes of ESC call 2018-02-01

[Noel Grandin]

On 1 February 2018 at 18:54, Jan Holesovsky  wrote:

>
>
> * Budgeting (Thorsten)
> + collecting wish-lists:
> + get some fast new Macs and host at Manitu
> + gerrit updates
> + other ideas for development topics ?
>
>
SSDs for existing macs.

SSD for gerrit (I often find it slow, but maybe that's just my internet
connection).

Maybe Cloudflare or similar for our Manitu network would help people like
me at the other end of international links?
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Caolán McNamara]

On Thu, 2017-08-31 at 15:49 +0100, Michael Meeks wrote:
> Looked for related bugs in Bugzilla (Xisco)
>+ didn’t look in too much detail
> + http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Minutes-of-ESC-call-20
> 17-08-17-tt4220768.html#a4221038
> AI:+ dialog / cropping → perhaps have a look / Caolan ?

https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/41933/ is my suggestion, round to
int instead of truncate
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Minutes of ESC call 2017-08-24

[Jean-Baptiste Faure]

Hi,

Le 24/08/2017 à 16:53, Miklos Vajna a écrit :

[...]
* Release Engineering update (Christian)
 + 5.3.6 RC1 is on the mirrors, to be announced early next week


Some time ago, new RC builds were systematically announced on several ML 
(dev, QA, projects). Now, several RC were not announced (notably 5.3.5), 
and probably not tested by advanced users and QA members before the release.


Is it a change in the release engineering process, or just an oversight?

Best regards.
JBF

--
Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents.
Disclaimer: my Internet Provider being located in France, each of our
exchanges over Internet will be scanned by French spying services.
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Antonio Faccioli - LibreItalia]

Hy all,

Il 2017-06-15 15:09 Michael Meeks ha scritto:

Hi guys,

On 15/06/17 11:04, Heiko Tietze wrote:

Would say the arguments are on the table. Cloph, what is the drawback
of adding appimage to our repo ?


	Can we shelve this, and discuss it in-person at the next ESC call; 
I've

added it to the agenda already =) I'm hoping to see Antonio there.



Sorry, I did not manage to arrive in time. The work went longer than 
expected.



Thanks,

Michael.


Regards
Antonio
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Michael Meeks]

Hi guys,

On 15/06/17 11:04, Heiko Tietze wrote:
> Would say the arguments are on the table. Cloph, what is the drawback
> of adding appimage to our repo ?

Can we shelve this, and discuss it in-person at the next ESC call; I've
added it to the agenda already =) I'm hoping to see Antonio there.

Thanks,

Michael.

-- 
michael.me...@collabora.com <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Heiko Tietze]

Would say the arguments are on the table. Cloph, what is the drawback of adding 
appimage to our repo? Time, size, traffic? In your opinion it has only little 
benefit but when the costs are low that might be acceptable.



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Jay Philips]

> Hi Jay, *,

Hi Cloph,

>> 1) not having to install it on your system to run it (aka portable)
> No need to install for TDF builds either.

You would have to extract, which isnt simple for a regular user.

>> 2) copying it on a usb and run it on any linux distro (atleast the minimum 
>> system that LO supports, something that snap and flatpak cant do)
> can do that with the TDF builds as well.

You would have to extract, which isnt simple for a regular user.

>> 3) easily running multiple versions (would improve linux QA, as it would 
>> also lower that barrier for users to test old versions)
> can do that with the TDF builds as well.

You would have to extract, which isnt simple for a regular user.

>> This is fine for advanced linux users but not for basic linux users, 
>> including those from windows or mac. The tar-ball doesnt even come with a 
>> simple extract or install bash script,
> Not true, there's and install script that could be used, but even that is not 
> necessary since you can simply extract the packages themselves.

Is true as only the RPM version of the tar.gz file this install or extract 
script and still isnt geared towards basic linux users.

> with appimage you'd also have to use the console/terminal/whatever to make it 
> executable for example, so whether you have instructions that
read "run chmod +x " or tell them to run any other 
command/one-liner for that matter doesn't really make a difference im my book.

As mentioned before, users dont have to go to the console to make the appimage 
executable. See video below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzZ6Ikc7juw

Open up the README_en-US file found in the .tar.gz file and there are no 
instructions on how to extract it and run it without effecting the version 
installed by the package manager. It does have install instructions which say 
to run 'sudo dpkg -i *.deb' inside the DEBS folder and how user friendly is 
this as an installation experience? We could simply provide bash files in the 
extracted root folder that users could run to simplify both these processes, 
but unfortunately we dont. If we do not provide an easy means for users to 
extract or install TDF built .tar.gz files, less knowledgeable users wont run 
the latest version.

>> The .tar.gz to .appimage bash conversion script can be run directly on the 
>> webserver, so that would eliminate any uploading time.
> But it seems that every language needs its own full installset, and that is a 
> no-go for actual redistribution.

No we plan to distribute 2 versions. One with some UI languages or and one with 
all UI languages, just like the portable windows versions.

>> Quite sure more than 2 people will use it, as i would be one of them,
> Exaggeration to make a point.

No just keeping the discussion friendly. ;D

> And flatpak has a different approach/has repository style backing, but even 
> that is not a general purpose distribution at the moment. And for TDF builds 
> flatpak also has deminshing returns, since the main benefit of the 
> dependencies are already taken care of..

Yes flatpak and snap are comparable as they both have similar goals of making 
it easy to install an application, while appimage is more focused on 
portability of the application.


>> No the appimage will only include the same files LO bundles in the released 
>> .deb and .rpm files found in the .tar.gz. It assumes the users system has 
>> the necessary other dependencies on their system.
> Then no added benefit.

Benefit is in easier user experience.

>> Appimage tries to solve a major problem on linux, easily running an app on 
>> any linux distro,
> Again: Already solved by TDF builds by using a baseline that doesn't 
> introduce runtime issues. The major problem doesn't exist for LibreOffice. 
> For other software that is a selling point, but LO already has solved this 
> problem in a different way.

Unfortunately TDF builds dont make it easy for a user to run/install on their 
system, but yes the baseline does ensure that i could run on most linux distros.

> Just  answer: Why should I convert to an appimage, if I could also could just 
>  create a tarball or iso-image or similar of the extracted rpm packages? Same 
> effect for LO. Add a link to toplevel so people don't need to browse to 
> opt/libreoffice/program to launch, but then it's the same thing, right?

I doubt that you would convert to appimage if you are running a rolling distro 
(e.g. arch) or a distro that make it easy to get the latest version even on a 
stable distro (e.g. PPAs for ubuntu), but if you wanted to easily run a new or 
old LO version, e.g. a user wanted to test how well 5.4 beta 2 works to send in 
bug reports, or take it around on a USB, downloading the appimage will be the 
simplest user experience that can be achieved for the average linux user, 
especially those who dont visit the console/terminal.

Yousuf
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Jay, *,

On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 1:10 AM, Jay Philips  wrote:
> […]
>>  + unclear what the future holds here: Snap, FlatPack, AppImage (Michael)
>
> If its Libreoffice future, i believe AppImage will be it, as it provides 
> similar functionality as the portable version found on windows, like
>
> 1) not having to install it on your system to run it (aka portable)

No need to install for TDF builds either.

> 2) copying it on a usb and run it on any linux distro (atleast the minimum 
> system that LO supports, something that snap and flatpak cant do)

can do that with the TDF builds as well.

> 3) easily running multiple versions (would improve linux QA, as it would also 
> lower that barrier for users to test old versions)

can do that with the TDF builds as well.

>>  + no real need for Linux portable edition (Cloph)
>> + tar-ball can be unzipped.
>
> This is fine for advanced linux users but not for basic linux users, 
> including those from windows or mac. The tar-ball doesnt even come with a 
> simple extract or install bash script,

Not true, there's and install script that could be used, but even t
hat is not necessary since you can simply extract the packages
themselves.

for i in *rpm; do rpm2cpio $i | cpio -idmv ; done

with appimage you'd also have to use the console/terminal/whatever to
make it executable for example, so whether you have instructions that
read "run chmod +x " or tell them to run any
other command/one-liner for that matter doesn't really make a
difference im my book.

>>  + some people may want it do why not ? (Heiko)
>> + up-loading takes time, maintenance etc. (Cloph)
>
> The .tar.gz to .appimage bash conversion script can be run directly on the 
> webserver, so that would eliminate any uploading time.

But it seems that every language needs its own full installset, and t
hat is a no-go for actual redistribution.

>> + if 2 people use it – build it themselves pwrt. daily builds.
>
> Quite sure more than 2 people will use it, as i would be one of them,

Exaggeration to make a point.

And flatpak has a different approach/has repository style backing, but
even that is not a general purpose distribution at the moment.
And for TDF builds flatpak also has deminshing returns, since the main
benefit of the dependencies are already taken care of..

>>  + the request is “become a linux distribution” (Michael)
>>+ flat-pack doesn’t include the GNOME run-time (Stephan)
>>+ AppImage sounds like it will include ~everything:
>>  Gstreamer + all codecs etc. - from some random PC (Michael)
>
> No the appimage will only include the same files LO bundles in the released 
> .deb and .rpm files found in the .tar.gz. It assumes the users system has the 
> necessary other dependencies on their system.

Then no added benefit.

> […]
>>   + AppImage works hard to solve a problem we already solved:
>> of being an ISV on Linux – it is hard but solveable.
>
> Appimage tries to solve a major problem on linux, easily running an app on 
> any linux distro,

Again: Already solved by TDF builds by using a baseline that  doesn't
introduce runtime issues.
The major problem doesn't exist for LibreOffice. For other software
that is a selling point, but LO already has solved this problem in a
different way.

Just  answer: Why should I convert to an appimage, if I could also
could just  create a tarball or iso-image or similar of the extracted
rpm packages? Same effect for LO.
Add a link to toplevel so people don't need to browse to
opt/libreoffice/program to launch, but then it's the same thing,
right?

ciao
Christian
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[antonio . faccioli]

Hi Michael, Jay, all

Il 09.06.2017 10:59 Michael Meeks ha scritto:

Hi Jay,

On 09/06/17 00:10, Jay Philips wrote:

+ unclear what the future holds here: Snap, FlatPack, AppImage
(Michael)


If its Libreoffice future, i believe AppImage will be it, as it
provides similar functionality as the portable version found on
windows, like

1) not having to install it on your system to run it (aka portable)


The "just run the console and do chmod +x " that
I see on their front-page is (I suspect) rather a bit of a usability
nightmare ;-) at least initially vs. say an app-store. Some 'technical'
people I know are impressed by command-line use ;-)


2) copying it on a usb and run it on any linux distro (atleast the
minimum system that LO supports, something that snap and flatpak cant
do)


Nice.


3) easily running multiple versions (would improve linux QA, as it
would also lower that barrier for users to test old versions)


I guess.



I'm using appimage to create the various versions of LibreOffice to use 
for client ticket testing.



+ how is flat-pack hosted currently ? (Michael) + build & up-load,
and cloph pushes it (Stephan) + whenever there is a 5.3.x it is
build – following Fresh. + no daily build.


If the bash conversion script isnt run locally on the webserver, then
Antonio is willing to create the appimages and upload them.


That seems reasonable. I guess it needs an active maintainer who fixes
problems with it - that is not Cloph =) is that you and/or Antonio ?



I'm available to help.


+ the request is “become a linux distribution” (Michael) +
flat-pack doesn’t include the GNOME run-time (Stephan) + AppImage
sounds like it will include ~everything: Gstreamer + all codecs
etc. - from some random PC (Michael)


No the appimage will only include the same files LO bundles in the
released .deb and .rpm files found in the .tar.gz. It assumes the
users system has the necessary other dependencies on their system.


This removes my major objection at least; if so - good =)


+ AppImage works hard to solve a problem we already solved: of
being an ISV on Linux – it is hard but solveable.


Appimage tries to solve a major problem on linux, easily running an
app on any linux distro, especially new apps on a stable distro.


I guess its useful to some people =) is there a central app-store /
location to find appimages ?


I will try to attend next week but doubt it will work as VOIP
services like hangouts and skype dont function correctly where i live


Is Antonio in a better location for international calls ?



Yes, I'm in Italy.


So to move this forward and test the waters, it would be great to
setup a page on the website for appimage[13] for the 5.4 beta 2 and
link the download links to either an uploaded appimagage on tdf
infra[14] or to the one on Antonio's website.


Sounds reasonable to me to test this out as experimental for the 5.4.x
release and if it works well for 6.0.



I agree, it seems to me the best way.


Any further thoughts Cloph ?

Thanks Jay & Antonio !

Michael.


Regards,
Antonio
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Jay Philips]

Hi All,

Sorry i wasnt able to attend today, so i guess i'll leave my comments by email.

>  + unclear what the future holds here: Snap, FlatPack, AppImage (Michael)

If its Libreoffice future, i believe AppImage will be it, as it provides 
similar functionality as the portable version found on windows, like 

1) not having to install it on your system to run it (aka portable)
2) copying it on a usb and run it on any linux distro (atleast the minimum 
system that LO supports, something that snap and flatpak cant do)
3) easily running multiple versions (would improve linux QA, as it would also 
lower that barrier for users to test old versions)

>  + no real need for Linux portable edition (Cloph)
> + tar-ball can be unzipped.

This is fine for advanced linux users but not for basic linux users, including 
those from windows or mac. The tar-ball doesnt even come with a simple extract 
or install bash script, which is why i had to write my own for QA work[1]. This 
same argument could be said for windows, but we dont tell them to download the 
.msi file and extract it with 'msiexec /a LibO__Win_x86_multi.msi 
TARGETDIR="L:\3.6.0"'[2], so they can run it.

[1] https://pastebin.com/L6SFSYFR
[2] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel/Windows

>  + some people may want it do why not ? (Heiko)
> + up-loading takes time, maintenance etc. (Cloph)

The .tar.gz to .appimage bash conversion script can be run directly on the 
webserver, so that would eliminate any uploading time.

> + if 2 people use it – build it themselves pwrt. daily builds.

Quite sure more than 2 people will use it, as i would be one of them, and am 
quite sure it will benefit the QA team as well. But i guess we can track the 
download numbers for it to test whether it is beneficial to keep making them or 
not once they are available. What are the download numbers like for flatpak?

>  + how is flat-pack hosted currently ? (Michael)
> + build & up-load, and cloph pushes it (Stephan)
> + whenever there is a 5.3.x it is build – following Fresh.
> + no daily build.

If the bash conversion script isnt run locally on the webserver, then Antonio 
is willing to create the appimages and upload them.

>  + the request is “become a linux distribution” (Michael)
>    + flat-pack doesn’t include the GNOME run-time (Stephan)
>    + AppImage sounds like it will include ~everything:
>  Gstreamer + all codecs etc. - from some random PC (Michael)

No the appimage will only include the same files LO bundles in the released 
.deb and .rpm files found in the .tar.gz. It assumes the users system has the 
necessary other dependencies on their system.

>   + can Jay distribute it instead ?

If infra doesnt want to host the appimages, Antonio can host them as he does 
today at < http://libreoffice.soluzioniopen.com/ >, but some may feel that its 
is not officially endorsed by LO if they have to go off of LO's website to get 
it.

>   + how large is it ?

The 'English' version of 5.4 beta 2 is 274MB[3], the 'Standard' version of 5.4 
beta 2 is 308MB[4] and the 'Full' version of 5.4 beta 2 is 382MB[5]. The 
'Standard' version contains the same language files as found in the 
'MultilingualStandard' windows portable file and the 'Full' version contains 
all languages files, similar to the 'MultilingualAll' windows portable file[6]. 
For comparison, the 5.3.3 snap release is 358MB[7].

[3] 
http://libreoffice.soluzioniopen.com/pre-releases/LibreOfficeDev-5.4.0.0.beta2_English_x86-64.AppImage
[4] 
http://libreoffice.soluzioniopen.com/pre-releases/LibreOfficeDev_5.4.0.0.beta2_Standard_x86-64.AppImage
[5] 
http://libreoffice.soluzioniopen.com/pre-releases/LibreOfficeDev_5.4.0.0.beta2_Full_x86-64.AppImage
[6] http://www.libreoffice.org/download/portable-versions/
[7] 
https://public.apps.ubuntu.com/anon/download-snap/CpUkI0qPIIBVRsjy49adNq4D6Ra72y4v_19.snap

>   + AppImage works hard to solve a problem we already solved:
> of being an ISV on Linux – it is hard but solveable.

Appimage tries to solve a major problem on linux, easily running an app on any 
linux distro, especially new apps on a stable distro. For more information, you 
can watch opensuse's Richard Brown compare AppImage, Snappy and Flatpak[8], 
watch the appimage author's presentation at the opensuse conference[9], view 
the script that converts the .tar.gz to .appimage[10], view a list of the apps 
that use appimage[12], or check out their website[11].

[8] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1OwX-dNFo
[9] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrWB2OZ9h2Y
[10] 
https://github.com/AppImage/AppImages/blob/master/recipes/libreoffice/Recipe
[11] https://github.com/AppImage/AppImageKit/wiki/AppImages
[12] http://appimage.org/

>  + Sad to miss jphilips in the discussion; do it again later ?

I will try to attend next week but doubt it will work as VOIP services like 
hangouts 

Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Jay Philips]

Hi Michael,

>    The "just run the console and do chmod +x " that
> I see on their front-page is (I suspect) rather a bit of a usability
> nightmare ;-) at least initially vs. say an app-store. Some 'technical'
> people I know are impressed by command-line use ;-)

As you can set the executable bit from within your desktop environment[1], i 
wouldnt expect users to jump to the console in order to do so, especially users 
appimage is targeting, unless they were terminal junkies. :D

[1] https://youtu.be/nzZ6Ikc7juw?t=1m16s

>    That seems reasonable. I guess it needs an active maintainer who fixes
> problems with it - that is not Cloph =) is that you and/or Antonio ?

Yes Antonio would be the maintainer.

>    I guess its useful to some people =) is there a central app-store /
> location to find appimages ?

Yep, i use it to run the latest VLC[2] and Krita[3] on my Ubuntu 16.04 LTS, 
without affecting the version that comes from the base system. As anyone can 
create and distribute an appimage, there isnt a central store for it, but i'd 
assume such a store will eventually be created in the future. The appimage 
author keeps a list of appimages he's aware of on a wiki, which i did link to 
in my previous email. Here it is again.[4]

[2] https://bintray.com/probono/AppImages/VLC/3.0.0.git4ff2515.glibc2.17#files
[3] http://www.davidrevoy.com/article322/krita-appimage-for-cats
[4] https://github.com/AppImage/AppImageKit/wiki/AppImages

>    Is Antonio in a better location for international calls ?

Yes he works at Studio Storti with Marina.

>     Sounds reasonable to me to test this out as experimental for the 5.4.x
> release and if it works well for 6.0.

Sweet.

>    Thanks Jay & Antonio !

Thanks Michael.

Regards,
Yousuf
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Michael Meeks]

Hi Jay,

On 09/06/17 00:10, Jay Philips wrote:
>> + unclear what the future holds here: Snap, FlatPack, AppImage
>> (Michael)
> 
> If its Libreoffice future, i believe AppImage will be it, as it
> provides similar functionality as the portable version found on
> windows, like
> 
> 1) not having to install it on your system to run it (aka portable)

The "just run the console and do chmod +x " that
I see on their front-page is (I suspect) rather a bit of a usability
nightmare ;-) at least initially vs. say an app-store. Some 'technical'
people I know are impressed by command-line use ;-)

> 2) copying it on a usb and run it on any linux distro (atleast the
> minimum system that LO supports, something that snap and flatpak cant
> do)

Nice.

> 3) easily running multiple versions (would improve linux QA, as it
> would also lower that barrier for users to test old versions)

I guess.

>> + how is flat-pack hosted currently ? (Michael) + build & up-load,
>> and cloph pushes it (Stephan) + whenever there is a 5.3.x it is
>> build – following Fresh. + no daily build.
> 
> If the bash conversion script isnt run locally on the webserver, then
> Antonio is willing to create the appimages and upload them.

That seems reasonable. I guess it needs an active maintainer who fixes
problems with it - that is not Cloph =) is that you and/or Antonio ?

>> + the request is “become a linux distribution” (Michael) +
>> flat-pack doesn’t include the GNOME run-time (Stephan) + AppImage
>> sounds like it will include ~everything: Gstreamer + all codecs
>> etc. - from some random PC (Michael)
> 
> No the appimage will only include the same files LO bundles in the
> released .deb and .rpm files found in the .tar.gz. It assumes the
> users system has the necessary other dependencies on their system.

This removes my major objection at least; if so - good =)

>> + AppImage works hard to solve a problem we already solved: of
>> being an ISV on Linux – it is hard but solveable.
> 
> Appimage tries to solve a major problem on linux, easily running an
> app on any linux distro, especially new apps on a stable distro.

I guess its useful to some people =) is there a central app-store /
location to find appimages ?

> I will try to attend next week but doubt it will work as VOIP
> services like hangouts and skype dont function correctly where i live

Is Antonio in a better location for international calls ?

> So to move this forward and test the waters, it would be great to
> setup a page on the website for appimage[13] for the 5.4 beta 2 and
> link the download links to either an uploaded appimagage on tdf
> infra[14] or to the one on Antonio's website.

Sounds reasonable to me to test this out as experimental for the 5.4.x
release and if it works well for 6.0.

Any further thoughts Cloph ?

Thanks Jay & Antonio !

Michael.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Eike Rathke]

Hi,

On Thursday, 2017-05-11 15:44:56 +0100, Michael Meeks wrote:

> + openhub statistics (2001-01-01), -1(-1) people did -1(-1) commits in 12 
> month in -1(-1) lines of code
>  + Is that really so ? -1 lines is a lot ...

Currently https://www.openhub.net/p/libreoffice says

30 Day Summary
Apr 1 2017 — May 1 2017
1216 Commits
79 Contributors

12 Month Summary
May 1 2016 — May 1 2017
15733 Commits
Down -2331 (12%) from previous 12 months
270 Contributors
Down -30 (10%) from previous 12 months

However, OpenHub notoriously being a source of not updated data (and now
maybe an API change so all those -1 values?), I propose we
(additionally) use the GitHub data from
https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/pulse/monthly

Excluding merges, 85 authors have pushed 1,279 commits to master and
1,932 commits to all branches. On master, 5,591 files have changed and
there have been 111,775 additions and 71,331 deletions.


API doc at https://developer.github.com/v3/repos/statistics/

For example, commits last 52 weeks daily (no author count though)
curl -i https://api.github.com/repos/LibreOffice/core/stats/commit_activity
piped through
awk -e '/^ +"total": [[:digit:]]+,$/ 
{if(++i>=48){n+=substr($2,1,length($2)-1)}} END{print "Commits: " n}'

gives the number of commits of the last 4 weeks plus days of current
week (currently 1339).
Note this awk scriptlet works only for unauthenticated (limited to 60
per hour per IP) API queries as otherwise the JSON data is all on one
line..

The example uses the source data of graphs with commits daily / weekly / 52 
weeks
https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/graphs/commit-activity

  Eike

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Tommy]

Michael Meeks wrote:



* Release Engineering update (Christian)
+ 5.2.7 RC2
  + on the mirrors as a final version, but no official announce yet.
  + the last of the 5.2.x line planned.


5.2.7 RC1 changelog still missing here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan/5.2#5.2.7_release



+ 5.3.3 RC2 tagging next week.
  + tagged yesterday, ready on the dev servers.



5.3.3 RC1 changelog still missing here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan/5.3#5.3.3_release



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[David Tardon]

Hi,

On Thu, Apr 06, 2017 at 08:22:04AM +1000, Chris Sherlock wrote:
> > On 31 Mar 2017, at 10:59 pm, David Tardon  wrote:
> > 
> >> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 04:08:18PM +0100, Michael Meeks wrote:
> >> * Crashtest update (Caolan)
> >>+ Google / ossfuzz: 24 fuzzers active now, unchanged
> >>+ not added any more tests – existing giving out enough noise
> >>+ lots of horsepower: they are also testing for local leaks & hangs
> >> + previously ignoring those; lots in this category.
> >>+ fast-hangs are more interesting than timeout – but fixing ...
> > 
> > As I missed the call yesterday...
> > 
> > I've started adding DLP libraries to oss-fuzz. There are 2 active fuzzers 
> > so far: for libmspub and OLE2 parser in librevenge. I have
> > submitted pull requests for 3 more: libcdr, libpagemaker and libwpd. 
> > Another 2, libwpg and libvisio, are in progress. I plan to add all the
> > libraries ultimately (if Google allows :-)
> > 
> > The yield is rather low, which is good. After all, the libraries have been 
> > fuzzed quite extensively in the past...
> > 
> > D.
> 
> Ah! After months (a year or more?) of being away from LO I noticed a whole 
> bunch of fuzzing files... that's amazing work! A real boon for LibreOffice 
> David, great work.

Actually the fuzzers in LibreOffice are Caolan's work. Fuzzers for DLP
libs are in the libs themselves.

> Is there a wiki page on how to use and integrate fuzzing? 

Nothing LibreOffice-specific, no. You can look at
https://github.com/google/oss-fuzz/blob/master/docs/new_project_guide.md
and bin/oss-fuzz-build .

D.
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[David Tardon]

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 04:08:18PM +0100, Michael Meeks wrote:
> * Crashtest update (Caolan)
> + Google / ossfuzz: 24 fuzzers active now, unchanged
> + not added any more tests – existing giving out enough noise
> + lots of horsepower: they are also testing for local leaks & hangs
>  + previously ignoring those; lots in this category.
> + fast-hangs are more interesting than timeout – but fixing ...

As I missed the call yesterday...

I've started adding DLP libraries to oss-fuzz. There are 2 active
fuzzers so far: for libmspub and OLE2 parser in librevenge. I have
submitted pull requests for 3 more: libcdr, libpagemaker and libwpd.
Another 2, libwpg and libvisio, are in progress. I plan to add all the
libraries ultimately (if Google allows :-)

The yield is rather low, which is good. After all, the libraries have
been fuzzed quite extensively in the past...

D.
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Thorsten Behrens]

Michael Meeks wrote:
> $ cd online
> $ git log libreoffice-5-3-branch-point..origin/libreoffice-5-3 --oneline
> | nl  -> 43
>
Does not seem to match reality:

$ git merge-base origin/master origin/libreoffice-5-3
  0f2e5ef3fe8d52a2f58afc6d8ac19046df155202
$ git log 0f2e5ef3fe8d52a2f58afc6d8ac19046df155202..origin/libreoffice-5-3 
--oneline | wc -l
  15

Of which 4 are version bumps, 4 are translation updates
(i.e. effectively community contributions), and one is from me.

>   Of course - its great to have help maintaining LibreOffice
> Online 5.3: welcome to the party. Having said that if it is possible
> to buy just some maintenance without funding any significant feature
> development work - there is a real risk of starving future feature
> investment, but that's not really a concern for the dev list.
> 
That is an odd comment indeed, it seems to go quite against what open
source should be. The hope is indeed to improve LibreOffice, as well
as LibreOffice Online, jointly as a community.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Michael Meeks]

Hi Thorsten,

On 17/02/17 02:40, Thorsten Behrens wrote:
> To expand a bit on that, very happy to say that Kopano
> (https://kopano.com/) is sponsoring us to improve the stable TDF
> branch of LibreOffice Online, which so far has not seen many
> bugfixes.

Curious;

$ cd online
$ git log libreoffice-5-3-branch-point..origin/libreoffice-5-3 --oneline
| nl

suggests that Collabora has done ~40 commits there quite apart
from the huge number of bug fixes and (if I say so myself) incredible
investment from Collabora before the 5-3 branch-point - ie. in our run
up to CODE 2.0 which happened before the 5-3 branch.

Of course - its great to have help maintaining LibreOffice
Online 5.3: welcome to the party. Having said that if it is possible
to buy just some maintenance without funding any significant feature
development work - there is a real risk of starving future feature
investment, but that's not really a concern for the dev list.

All the best,

Michael.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Eike Rathke]

Hi,

On Thursday, 2017-02-16 15:43:18 +, Michael Meeks wrote:

> + Most Pressing Bugs: http://tdf.io/mostressingbugs
>   + Older:
> + Crash in: `anonymous 
> namespace'::ScCaptionCreator::UpdateCaptionPos()
> + 
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=105667
> + has been bisected, would love Eike to take a look at it 
> (?)

Fixed and gerrit reviews pending for 5-3, 5-2 and 5-2-6

  Eike

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Thomas Hackert]

Michael Meeks wrote:
> On 17/02/17 11:41, Pedro wrote:


>> Is TDF hosting a free account version of LOO (not a nice acronym
>> for British English people ;) ) at least for testing purposes?
> 
> Heh - so - Collabora is already hosting that as a service for the
> community - with integration into the above LDAP-ness (please do
> create an account there). It already works but is not yet
> announced: we're expediting that =) happy to send anyone details
> privately there.

Yes, please :) As a translator, I would be glad to see, where our 
translations are ... ;) It is not that obvious to see in my demo 
account @ demo.collaboraonline ... :(

>> How is LibreOffice Online comparable with Collabora Online?
> 
> https://www.collaboraoffice.com/community-en/understanding-the-differences-between-libreoffice-online-code-and-collabora-online/

Thank you very much for this link :)
Have a nice day
Thomas.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Eike Rathke]

Hi,

On Thursday, 2017-02-16 15:43:18 +, Michael Meeks wrote:

> + Most Pressing Bugs: http://tdf.io/mostressingbugs
> + New:
> + Pivot crashes Calc
> + 
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=105858
> + SC_DPOUT_MAXLEVELS query ...
> + User can’t share the document. I can send it privately 
> if needed
> + quite old - back to 3.5 - quite rare to reproduce.
> + would love input from Eike on what is going on ?
> + document sent to Julian & so on.

Fixed and gerrit reviews pending for 5-3, 5-2 and 5-2-6

  Eike

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Michael Meeks]

Hi Pedro,

On 17/02/17 11:41, Pedro wrote:
>>  + online/TDF/LDAP accounts etc. (Michael)
>>   + https://user.documentfoundation.org
> 
> I assumed this would point to a test version but it seems to be a login
> interface only... Am I missing something?

Riight - so we're working on a proper announcement here.

> Is TDF hosting a free account version of LOO (not a nice acronym for British
> English people ;) ) at least for testing purposes?

Heh - so - Collabora is already hosting that as a service for the
community - with integration into the above LDAP-ness (please do create
an account there). It already works but is not yet announced: we're
expediting that =) happy to send anyone details privately there.

> How is LibreOffice Online comparable with Collabora Online?


https://www.collaboraoffice.com/community-en/understanding-the-differences-between-libreoffice-online-code-and-collabora-online/

May be helpful =)

HTH,

Michael.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Pedro]

Hi Thorsten, Michael, all


Thorsten Behrens-6 wrote
> Michael Meeks wrote:
>> + online (Michael)
>>   + online branch maintenance (Thorsten)
>>  + wondering for 5.3 – what’s the policy ?
>>  + not using gerrit much.
>>  + customer wants to do stabilization & bug-fixing
>>  - plan for one review in gerrit (Thorsten)
>>
> To expand a bit on that, very happy to say that Kopano
> (https://kopano.com/) is sponsoring us to improve the stable TDF
> branch of LibreOffice Online, which so far has not seen many
> bugfixes.
> 
> We'll monitor bugzilla of course, but wouldn't mind a direct poke, if
> you think some area needs particular attention.

In the previous minutes Michael mentioned

>  + online/TDF/LDAP accounts etc. (Michael)
>   + https://user.documentfoundation.org

I assumed this would point to a test version but it seems to be a login
interface only... Am I missing something?

Is TDF hosting a free account version of LOO (not a nice acronym for British
English people ;) ) at least for testing purposes?

How is LibreOffice Online comparable with Collabora Online?

Thanks,
Pedro



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Thorsten Behrens]

Michael Meeks wrote:
> + online (Michael)
>   + online branch maintenance (Thorsten)
>  + wondering for 5.3 – what’s the policy ?
>  + not using gerrit much.
>  + customer wants to do stabilization & bug-fixing
>  - plan for one review in gerrit (Thorsten)
>
To expand a bit on that, very happy to say that Kopano
(https://kopano.com/) is sponsoring us to improve the stable TDF
branch of LibreOffice Online, which so far has not seen many
bugfixes.

We'll monitor bugzilla of course, but wouldn't mind a direct poke, if
you think some area needs particular attention.

All the best,

-- Thorsten


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Zolnai Tamás]

Hi,

> * TDF / Budgeting / Brainstorming (Thorsten)
> + checkout spreadsheet:
> https://demo.collaboracloudsuite.com/tdf/index.php/apps/richdocuments/index#719_%2FESC%20minutes
>  + currently ranked by highest score
>  + interesting ranking, thanks for rating.

When will these scores be public? I'm interested how ranking looks like.

Thanks,
Tamás
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Bjoern Michaelsen]

Hi,

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 04:41:44PM +0100, Alexander Thurgood wrote:
> So, dropping make 3.8.1 on Mac would clearly push people not to build
> with the XCode system provided tools ?

Well, it is still GNU make. But yes in general, its suggested to work on
LibreOffice in a well defined environment anyway, which for OSX and Windows is
LODE.

Best,

Bjoern

(FWIW, GNU make 3.82 was released 2010-07-28: Its older than LibreOffice
itself, and it is trivial to build with older versions of generic POSIX make
including GNU make 3.81.)
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Alexander Thurgood]

Le 13/01/2017 à 15:03, Michael Meeks a écrit :

> * make 3.81 (Michael S)

> + Mac comes with 3.81 (Cloph)
>+ but fine with dropping support for it.
>+ if people build with lode – they get a current make anyway (Michael 
> S)
>   + recommended (JanI)

So, dropping make 3.8.1 on Mac would clearly push people not to build
with the XCode system provided tools ?

Alex




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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Cor Nouws]

Hi Bjoern,

Bjoern Michaelsen wrote on 15-12-16 19:10:

> Yes, but the rationale was the extraordinary number of MM regressions we had
> during the cleanup of the old (really horrible) code. That major cleanup is
> finishe for the most part now, activity in the area is back to normal, so no
> justification anymore to highlight MM regressions over regressions elsewhere.

Ah, sure makes sense.
Thanks for explaining,

Ciao - Cor


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Bjoern Michaelsen]

Hi,
On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 12:19:54PM +0100, Cor Nouws wrote:
> Michael Meeks wrote on 08-12-16 17:56:
> > + Mail merge regressions: http://tdf.io/mmregressions
> > + 4 open; 4 open last meeting (2 OSX, 1 Linux, 1 generic but hard 
> > repro)
> >   => drop from the QA section from now - always four.
> 
> Counting 5 at the moment.

Yes, but the rationale was the extraordinary number of MM regressions we had
during the cleanup of the old (really horrible) code. That major cleanup is
finishe for the most part now, activity in the area is back to normal, so no
justification anymore to highlight MM regressions over regressions elsewhere.

Best,

Bjoern
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Cor Nouws]

Michael Meeks wrote on 08-12-16 17:56:
> + Mail merge regressions: http://tdf.io/mmregressions
> + 4 open; 4 open last meeting (2 OSX, 1 Linux, 1 generic but hard 
> repro)
>   => drop from the QA section from now - always four.

Counting 5 at the moment.


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Thorsten Behrens]

Michael Meeks wrote:
> * TDF / Budgeting / Brainstorming (Thorsten)
> + Idea generation:
> + Community Building feature / fix / tooling
> + Quality improvement tooling
> + Hard / dull but necessary stuff not getting done
> + Large missing features / function
> + have some ideas (Thorsten)
>
Added to https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/Budget2017

Cheers,

-- Thorsten


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Khaled Hosny]

On Thu, Dec 08, 2016 at 04:56:07PM +, Michael Meeks wrote:
>   + who else needs a Mac ? ... answers on a post-card.

I think I can make use of one, if it can get here easily. I currently
use the same Mac laptop for both Linux and Mac development, not the most
productive setup.

Regards,
Khaled
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Katarina Behrens]

Hello world

> + Late features:
> + separating images and icons for help modules (Olivier, Bubli)
> + still waiting for Olivier's sample string change to write
> the script. + we need to see the impact on translators.

I'm slightly reluctant to make this 5.3 late feature, not because of the 
impact on translations (which I clarified in another e-mail to Cloph & Olivier) 
but because of the impact on how help is packaged on all 3 platforms for TDF 
builds and Linux distributions.

For complete separation, every offline help package will now need to come with 
extra zip archive with images. This is a non-trivial change and I don't think 
it's fair to expect distro packagers to do that kind of work this late in the 
game. 

For partial separation, a zip archive with help images can be shipped along 
with icon themes. The only difference is that the images (misc illustrations 
and new screenshots) will have moved from core to help git repository. This is 
presumably less work for the packagers, but it adds some load still ... 

-- 

Katarina Behrens

Softwareentwicklerin LibreOffice
–––
CIB software GmbH
Geschäftsstelle Hamburg
Flachsland 10
22083 Hamburg
–––
T +49 (40) / 28 48 42 -235
F +49 (40) / 28 48 42 -100

katarina.behr...@cib.de
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Thorsten Behrens]

Katarína Behrens wrote:
> I'm slightly reluctant to make this 5.3 late feature, not because of
> the impact on translations (which I clarified in another e-mail to
> Cloph & Olivier) but because of the impact on how help is packaged
> on all 3 platforms for TDF builds and Linux distributions.
> 
Right - and the question is, what does it buy us anyway for 5.3, given
that new helpcontent / extra images will only happen on master after
string freeze?

Cheers,

-- Thorsten


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Bjoern Michaelsen]

Hi,

On Thu, Dec 08, 2016 at 04:56:07PM +, Michael Meeks wrote:
>   + someone creating e.g. a Visual Studio extension that does 
> all the cygwin/git clone/gerrit bootstrapping would be much appreciated 
> though (Bjoern)
> [...]
> + eg. a pre-canned bundle with pre-built 'externals' and 
> pre-canned VS file made from make (Michael)

... and the core issue with that is the number of different configs we support
even on Windows. While that makes some sense on Linux, where each distro is a
unique snowflake in some way, it makes very little sense on Windows, where most
things should be the same on all systems. Or at least _could_ be the same on
all systems.

I mean, we could have a tinderbox run "./autogen.sh && make
vs2013-ide-integration" once a week and make it commit the result Visual Studio
solutions to the core repo. Note this does _not_ need a full build anymore, so
should be a matter of minutes. But for those to work universally, it requires
tooling that reproduces pretty much exactly as on the canonical tinderbox that
created the solutions, including:

- SRCDIR
- BUILDDIR
- cygwin install

LODE did some great steps in that direction, but I fear is not quite there yet.
If you get Windows builds to kill all those degrees of freedom, then this
should work just fine (including pre-build 'external').

So again: This is less of an build issue, than one of configuration management.

Best,

Bjoern
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Zolnai Tamás]

Hi,

> * Pivot-Tables / UNO / API evolution (Eike)
>+ current state looks good (Eike)
>   + new feature will work.
>+ what needs clarification in future: when & how to break stable API
>   + if not absolutely necessary - don't do it.
>   + adding a new constant is more work & more ugly.
>+ new interface / Function2 bits is uglier for the API users (Stephan)
>   + will there be further extensions of that list of functions ?
>   + yes ? (Michael)
>   + perhaps not (Eike)
>   + if this is the only change this century - say go with incompatible 
> change (Stephan)
>   + if will be further additions likely; perhaps pay the price now.
>+ dug at why addition to enums is incompatible (Kendy)
>   + fail to see why we should consider it incompatible.
>   + from semantic POV - fair cop.
>   + but everything we do is controlled by us
>   + code generated, JARs we generate from newer version.
>   + can generate some odd code here - that would cause issues.
>   + with normal use-cases; get a value of enum, do something, put it back.
>   + reasonably transparent.
>   + perhaps some scenario fails; if someone tries to cast random integers 
> into
>  enums or no real technical reason not to extend an enum.
>   + problem with out-of-process Java code & older JAR file (Stephan)
>  + if you bundle JAR file with ext'n or app - have an issue 
> (Kendy)
>   + mostly a moot discussion wrt. danger of extending it (Stephan)
>   + using constant-groups instead.
>   + Function - to a Constant Group ? (Thorsten)
>   + already done etc.
>   + Concern wrt. tone on each side (Thorsten, Michael)
>   + revert first and then discuss seems reasonable close to branch 
> (Norbert)
>   + real problem is the UNO API used internally (Markus)
>   + long-term solution - to get rid of UNO API for internal code.
>   + happy to see this separated (Eike)
>   + could get the XPropertySet / Any to accept different types incoming 
> (Michael)
>   + doesn't help so much for reading.
>   + What is the view wrt. changing byte-code we generate ? (Kendy)
>   + from 5.3 or 5.4 - so we can change the enums safely.
>   + codemaker magic - that needs some modification ?
>   + no-one looked into the .Net binding (Stephan)
>   + don't see a way to change the Java code.
>   + need an object representing that value
>   + don't see the value.
>   + if we hit a place where an incompat way is preferred (Stephan)
>   + we just do that.
>   + enum situation in the past was a hard-wall (Kendy)
>   + larger API changes - asking consider changes here.
>   + in the future -> say - add a FUTURE_ITEMS (Michael)
>   + then people get warned; we never emit this etc.
>   + not sure we get anything here, but if want to do it - why not 
> ? (Stephan)
>   => anyone welcome to look into improving this.
>   + FWIW - Tamas' spare-time fun improvement (Michael)
>   + concern that we consider 3rd party apps carefully as we move ahead 
> (Thorsten)

Thanks for discussing this, even tough this discussion did not lead to change.
I have only one question for the future, if it ever comes into my mind
to implement something which is related to this DAPI.
Can I have some code pointers from the last 5 years which shows when
it is "absolutely necessary" to break compatibility? To see when it's
acceptable to do such thing.

Thanks,
Tamás
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Jan Iversen]

> On 06 Oct 2016, at 17:04, Michael Meeks  wrote:
> 
> * Present:
>+ Sophie, Andras, Caolan, Heiko, Markus, Miklos, Olivier, Xisco,
>  Eike, Norbert, Stephan, Armin, Sweetshark, Kendy
> 
> * Completed Action Items:
>+ connect Xisco/JanI with Madrid GNOME guy (Bubli)
>  thanks, no response yet.
> 
> * Pending Action Items:
>+ enable linux / system library checker on CI (Norbert)
>[ pending ]
>+ simplify & cleanup broken Windows build instructions & test (JanI)
>[ in progress ]
>+ align release dates and issues, patch merging (Caolan, Cloph)
>[ waiting on AOO decision ]
>+ poke at MSDN licenses (Michael)
>[ still chasing this one ]
>+ investigate a cron job that queries & auto-merges (Norbert)
>[ waiting to see David's solution get up-stream, should be 
> straightforward
>  enough; a query and a script. ]
>+ tweak UI and get LiveConnect API key / build case for board (Christian)
>   + still need to get API key, rest is done
>[ planned for 5.3 release ]
> 
> * Release Engineering update (JanI)
>+ < missing JanI > +
Just for reference, I did try to connect but was unable to, and wrote that on 
IRC, and as is evident I did fill out the minutes.

Have a nice weekend
rgds
jan I.

>+ 5.2.3 RC1 (janI)
>+ scheduled 25 October
>+ 5.1 → 5.1.6 rc2 (jani with help from Cloph)
>+ scheduled 18 October
>+ 5.3 → 5.3.0 alpha 1 Oct 18th
>+ Nov 21st - with the branch-off (Cloph)
>+ Android & iOS Remote (Cloph)
>+ query wrt. F-Droid maintenance ? (Stuart/Kendy)
>+ Windows Server 2016 (Cloph)
>+ should we bump our base-line to this ?
>+ did we decide that ? ...
>+ gtk 3.22 claims long term stability
>+ if gtk3 is enabled, make that the minimum version ? (3.20 in 
> practice for build-your-own support reading ifdefs)
>+ what consequences would there be to adding gtk3 3.22 support to the 
> official builds
>   - already enable system-cairo for gtk2 I think
> 
> * Documentation (Olivier)
>+ New contributor: Andrea Mussap for Help Content
>+ Good cleanup work from Gabor Kelemen and Andras Timar in the 
> HelpContent, droping unused entries
>+ Blog posts for documentation
>- interview (Tuesday)
>- Community week (today)
>+ Further work in documentation.libreoffice.org
> 
> * UX Update (Heiko)
> * needsUXAdvice at Oct-06, Total number: 475 (-8)
>Base  1
>Calc 35 (+1)
>Draw 67
>Extensions0
>filters and storage   1
>framework 1
>Impress  25 (+1)
>Installation  0
>LibreOffice 255 (-5)
>Localization  0
>Printing and PDF export   1
>UI   16
>Writer   73 (-3)
> + unconfirmed ticket count down to 10
> * Hot topics for UX call tomorrow
>   + Allow toolbars in full-screen mode ? (tdf#95462)
>   + Clear direct formatting in context menu (tdf#102915)
>   + some people wanting it back.
> + Unifying document attributes (Michael)
>   + lots of good things in the 'shell' etc.
>   + File menu override issues on Mac; thoughts appreciated
>  -> Ticket please against ux
> 
> * Crashtest update (Caolan)
>+ 3 import failure, 1 export failures
>+ numbers up but small; and related to recently added asserts
>+ another run in progress now; expected to drop to zero in a few hours.
>+ Coverity still going down:
>  < 29 coverity issues
> 
> * Crash reporting (Markus)
>+ http://crashreport.libreoffice.org/stats/
>+ check it out - lots of crashes: around 1500 per day.
>+ cf. Firefox - millions ?
>+ many are odd shutdown crashes; sometimes getting into an OGL path.
>+ not figured out why.
>+ at least one serious memory corruption in VCL.
>+ please poke numbers from time to time & check if there is a crash.
>+ filtering would be great (Michael)
>+ can we mention it in dev-central ? (Miklos)
>+ can add it there.
> 
> * UI testing (moggi)
>+ more or less ready in master
>+ two issues currently blocking: pyuno bug and one race condition
>+ a random assert triggered.
>+ people can start adding UI tests
>+ currently writing a tutorial on that.
>+ tests run OOP in python.
>+ connects to a small VCL / introspection piece
>+ support for manu UI objects is built-in, added for most
>  of the used VCL objects.
>+ easy to add support for un-supported elements.
>+ make uitest.uicheck
>+ planning to move some around to other places eg. make sc.uicheck
>+ tested on Linux & Windows.
>+ works similar to crash-testing, with bits taken from python tests.
>+ any input from UX for UI tests? (Heiko)
>+ purely developer tests just now 

Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Jan Iversen]

> On 08 Oct 2016, at 16:56, Noel Grandin  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 7 October 2016 at 13:21, Jan Iversen  > wrote:
> We should really start looking at ways to increase the number, I know there 
> are open source packages that can do that.
> 
> Anyhow, nothing important was missed.
> 
> 
> Either that, or the person starting the call needs to have a Google Apps for 
> Business account. Then the limit goes up to 20.
> 
> Perhaps we can get a non-profit account via TDF ?
I have a google apps account, for one of my friends, which we can use, do you 
how I can check the limit ?

rgds
jan I.

>  

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Noel Grandin]

On 7 October 2016 at 13:21, Jan Iversen  wrote:

> We should really start looking at ways to increase the number, I know
> there are open source packages that can do that.
>
> Anyhow, nothing important was missed.
>


Either that, or the person starting the call needs to have a Google Apps
for Business account. Then the limit goes up to 20.

Perhaps we can get a non-profit account via TDF ?
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Jan Iversen]

> On 07 Oct 2016, at 13:18, Michael Meeks  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 10/07/2016 12:08 PM, Jan Iversen wrote:
>>>   + < missing JanI > +
>> 
>> Just for reference, I did try to connect but was unable to, and wrote that
>> on IRC, and as is evident I did fill out the minutes.
> 
>   I missed that; there are phone dial-ins; we can only fit ten people in
> the hangout, and when that's full - it is necessary either to start a
> new hangout and bridge it to the dial-ins (quite possible) or to call by
> phone.
> 
>   Either way, its always good to have you in the call =)
I know these parts (do not have a landline), and I assume I simply got used to 
your excellent service of you inviting me, so I connected too late.

We should really start looking at ways to increase the number, I know there are 
open source packages that can do that.

Anyhow, nothing important was missed.

have a super weekend

rgds
jan I.

> 
>   Regards,
> 
>   Michael.
> 
> -- 
> michael.me...@collabora.com <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Michael Meeks]

On 10/08/2016 06:30 PM, Jan Iversen wrote:
>> Perhaps we can get a non-profit account via TDF ?
> 
> I have a google apps account, for one of my friends, which we can
> use, do you how I can check the limit ?

Call a lot of friends ? or just fire up a lot of browser windows, and
join your own call a lot - that would work too ;-) but check that you
can dial phone lines in too, its something of a fluke that that
continues to work for us via http://g.co/hangouts I suspect.

ATB,

Michael.

-- 
michael.me...@collabora.com <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Jan Iversen]

> 
>   I missed that; there are phone dial-ins; we can only fit ten people in
> the hangout, and when that's full - it is necessary either to start a
> new hangout and bridge it to the dial-ins (quite possible) or to call by
> phone.
> 
>   Either way, its always good to have you in the call =)
> 
I know these parts (do not have a landline), and I assume I simply got used to 
your excellent service of you inviting me, so I connected too late.

We should really start looking at ways to increase the number, I know there are 
open source packages that can do that.

Anyhow, nothing important was missed.

have a super weekend

rgds
jan I.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Adolfo Jayme Barrientos]

El dia 19/09/2016 5:43 a. m., "Xisco Fauli"  va
escriure:
[…]
> * Problem 2: Name is confusing.
> + Action: Rename it to 'needsEasyHackValidation'

Curiously, this keyword’s first name was “proposedEasyHack”, which at some
point was found “confusing” by someone. I just find it a bit funny that a
similar name is being proposed now… ;-)
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Jan Iversen]

> The point of changing the word to 'needsEasyHackValidation' is to limit its 
> use to only easyhacks. 'needsDevEval' is too general and could be use in 
> order cases where we don't want contributors to use it.
Well you reach out to the same group of people, to do the same thing….provide 
advice, like code pointers, implementation advice, etc.

I still do no see the difference of “needsDevEval” on a non-easyHack to 
“needsDevEval” on a easy hack.

It seems with the proposed solution I can end up with 
keywords=“easyHack,needsDevEval,needsEasyHackValidation” for a bug where the 
following info is needed
- code pointer (needsEasyHackValidation)
- How to best implement it (needsDevEval)

Seems a but over the top, considering that most likely the same developer will 
provide both.



> Same here. According to the wiki, 'needAdvice' is meant to used for 
> unconfirmed bugs which need help from a developer in order to get confirmed. 
> Thus, using 'needsConfirmationAdvice' we limit its use to just that, avoiding 
> contributors to use it somewhere else.

Well you could use “needsDevEval” since it again is asking the same people for 
the same information.

rgds
jan I

Ps. I am all for changing “status=NEEDINFO,keyword=easyHack”, but I prefer not 
to make things more complicated than they already are.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Xisco Fauli]

Hello Jan,


El 20/09/16 a les 10:30, Jan Iversen ha escrit:


Curiously, this keyword’s first name was “proposedEasyHack”, which at 
some point was found “confusing” by someone. I just find it a bit 
funny that a similar name is being proposed now… ;-)




I too found needsEasyhackEvaluation a bit curious.

But I have to admit that the current use:
keyword=easyhack and status=NEEDINFO
is not the best way to do it.

So adding a keyword seemed as a sensible option, I preferred just to 
keep keyword=needsDevEval, since that can be used independent of easy 
hack, but I leave that decision to the QA team.
“proposedEasyHack” was confusing at the time whitewords were used as the 
search engine didn't work well with ie. 'proposedEasyHack' and 
'easyhack'. However, now we use keywords and it works differently as the 
number of keywords is fixed and it searches for the entire word.


The point of changing the word to 'needsEasyHackValidation' is to limit 
its use to only easyhacks. 'needsDevEval' is too general and could be 
use in order cases where we don't want contributors to use it.


the renaming of keyword=needAdvice to keyword=needsConfirmationAdvice 
is a bit strange to me. If a bug is not confirmed, it has 
status=UNCONFIRMED, so I am unsure why we keep 
needAdvice/needsConfirmationAdvice


We should be careful not to have too many keywords, and especially not 
to make workflows into changing keywords.
Same here. According to the wiki, 'needAdvice' is meant to used for 
unconfirmed bugs which need help from a developer in order to get 
confirmed. Thus, using 'needsConfirmationAdvice' we limit its use to 
just that, avoiding contributors to use it somewhere else.


Regards

--
Xisco Faulí
Libreoffice QA Team

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Jan Iversen]

> Curiously, this keyword’s first name was “proposedEasyHack”, which at some 
> point was found “confusing” by someone. I just find it a bit funny that a 
> similar name is being proposed now… ;-)
> 

I too found needsEasyhackEvaluation a bit curious.

But I have to admit that the current use:
keyword=easyhack and status=NEEDINFO
is not the best way to do it.

So adding a keyword seemed as a sensible option, I preferred just to keep 
keyword=needsDevEval, since that can be used independent of easy hack, but I 
leave that decision to the QA team.

the renaming of keyword=needAdvice to keyword=needsConfirmationAdvice is a bit 
strange to me. If a bug is not confirmed, it has status=UNCONFIRMED, so I am 
unsure why we keep needAdvice/needsConfirmationAdvice

We should be careful not to have too many keywords, and especially not to make 
workflows into changing keywords. 

rgds
jan I

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Xisco Fauli]

Hello


El 15/09/16 a les 17:06, Michael Meeks ha escrit:

+ Keywords - what is their meaning ?

  + NeedsDevEval vs. needAdvise

  + used randomly apparently.

=> prefer needsDevEval

  => replace all needAdvise -> needsDevEval.

|| ||

||+ UNCONFIRMED: 813||

 + up 100 over the last two weeks.

||+ enhancements: 90||

||+ needsUXEval: 52||

||+ needsDevEval at 73||

|| ||

 + needsDevEval - looking at (JanI)

 + if not an easy-hack, and multiple ways to solve a problem.

 + needs a core dev to say: "this problem should be solved in XYZ
place"

 + easy hacks shouldn't contain needsDevEval ? (Xisco)

 + if missing code pointers, set to NEEDINFO

 + ping people to provide pointers on NEEDINFOs (JanI


After the meeting, Jan, Beluga and I had a long conversation in IRC with 
regards to needAdvise/needsDevEval keywords and we arrive to the 
following conclusions:


- needAdvise: Used when help from developers in needed to confirm 
an UNCONFIRMED bug. Info: 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Bugzilla/Fields/Keywords#needAdvice.

* Problem 1: Name is confusing.
+ Action: Rename it to 'needsConfirmationAdvise'
* Problem 2: No New or resolved bugs should use it.
+ Action: Clean it up and create a new gardening task.

- needsDevEval: Should be used when a plausible easyhack lacks the 
code pointer, the difficulty, the topic or the skill and a developer 
needs to provide the information missing.
* Problem 1: It has been used to propose easyhacks over the 
last months.
+ Action: Update the wiki accordingly: 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Bugzilla/Fields/Keywords#needsDevEval 
and 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/EasyHacks/Creating_a_new_Easy_Hack


* Problem 2: Name is confusing.
+ Action: Rename it to 'needsEasyHackValidation'

* Problem 3: The combination of NEEDINFO + easyhack has been 
used instead. NEEDINFO should only be used when feedback from the bug 
reporters is needed.
+ Action: Change all NEEDINFO + easyhack to 
'needsEasyHackValidation'


* Problem 4: 476 bugs use the keyword 'needsDevEval' nowadays.
+ Action: Evaluate one by one to see whether they're 
actually an easyhack or not. If so, change 'needsDevEval' keyword to 
'easyhack' and if possible, add the topic, code pointer, skill and 
difficulty. Adding Jan as CC helps too. In case the topic, the code 
pointer, the skill or the difficulty couldn't be provided for lack of 
knowledge, Jan could help on that as he's monitoring all easyhacks. If 
he couldn't, then the 'needsEasyHackValidation' keyword should be used.


NOTE: In order to propose new easyhacks, the same procedure as in 
Problem 4 should be followed.


Feel free to ask if you have any question.

Regards

--
Xisco Faulí
Libreoffice QA Team

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call: 2016-08-18

[Caolán McNamara]

On Thu, 2016-08-18 at 18:36 +0200, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote:
> * all bugs tagged with 'regression'
>     + 688(+0) bugs open of 5090(+24) total 10(-1) high prio.
> 
>     * ~Component   count net * high severity regressions
>   Calc -  4 (+0)

74880, one of these calc bugs, requires a download of a zip of files
reproduce, but the document is gone from the original host. Is there a
route to reproduce this ? otherwise its futile to have it in the
regression list.

C.
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call: 2016-08-18

[Bjoern Michaelsen]

Hi,

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 06:36:50PM +0200, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote:
> AI:   + bring patch for Writer regression stat update (Bjoern)

Done: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/28239

Best,

Bjoern
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call: 2016-08-18

[Miklos Vajna]

Hi Bjoern,

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 06:36:50PM +0200, Bjoern Michaelsen 
 wrote:
> - clang: high fail rates? (Norbert)
>- Firebird causes half the builds to fail on clang (Miklos)
> AI:   - disable Firebird for clang? (Miklos)

Done as .

Regards,

Miklos


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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Minutes of ESC call: 2016-08-11

[Stephan Bergmann]

On 08/11/2016 05:07 PM, Jan Holesovsky wrote:

* "make debug=T" doesnt build with symbols anymore (Bjoern)
+ instead "make debug=T enable_symbols=T" is needed
+ not objecting to this in principle (Bjoern)
+ in fact, I would have objections (Thorsten)
+ me too (Jan-Marek)
+ for the command line a new env var doing both might be a compromise 
(Bjoern)
+ what is the use-case, actually? (Eike)
+ want to have enable_symbols implied by debug too (Thorsten)
+ no idea what was the reason (Bjoern)
AI: + explain the reason / bring it to some ESC when Stephan is here (Stephan / 
Bjoern)
+ let's have this talk when Shephan is here


 
"'make debug=t' enables debuginfo again" should restore the expected 
behavior.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Michael Stahl]

On 28.07.2016 18:19, Markus Mohrhard wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 5:18 PM, Michael Meeks
> > wrote:
> 
> 
> * Crashtest update (Caolan)
> + 1 import failure, 7 export failures, coverity pending
> + discovered there was a timeout, throwing an assert after 2 minutes
>   an issue on the crash-testing box, but not when tested..
> + marketing numbers of 0.00 for coverity correct as of last
> testing cf. 5.2 branch
> + database documents being round-tripped (Michael S)
>+ had a tendency to deadlock - 10% of them.
>+ ended up being killed by the python script: didn't result
> in a crashlog.
>+ only get an entry in the crashlog if we get a dispose
> exception.
>+ have a fix for that; to introduce in the database document the
>  solar mutex for locking
>+ another potential gift that will give and give.
>+ crash test now runs without deadlocking
>-> can we fix the python script - to report hangs ? (Michael)
>+ some where writer has an infinite layout loop (Michael S)
>+ should these be reported in crash-testing ? not sure.
> 
> 
> The script was reporting the files it could not open and the files that
> took too long. Keep in mind that this not only covers deadlocks and
> therefore it was nearly impossible to get anything useful from the
> results. It limits all tests for a file (so all the import and then
> reexport to different formats to 3 minutes). In theory we could increase
> the limit and enable reporting again to reduce the number of false
> positives but that will also increase the runtime of the crash testing
> significantly.

also i'm getting a lot (> 300) of time-outs when running the script on a
--enable-dbgutil build; i think there are several benign reasons:

* some of the files are very large and template-heavy C++ code like STL
and MDDS relies a lot on inlining so no wonder a build without
optimization is taking some time

* some of the files have HTTP links to images that cause network timeouts

if we could somehow detect that the soffice.bin is still spinning the
CPU we might avoid the first non-problem but not the second.

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Markus Mohrhard]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 5:18 PM, Michael Meeks 
wrote:

>
> * Windows XP deprecation for 5.2 story ? (Cloph)
> + goal - to have the baseline be based on Windows Server 2016, and VS
> 2015
> + unclear if builds created with this combination will run on WinXP
> + Thorsten had a stackoverflow comment saying it should work.
> + just giving warning that if there are big hassles with WinXP API etc.
>   we may drop it for 5.3 and onwards.
> + no real reason to drop it as a platform for now.
>+ just want to give the advanced warning that it may go sooner
> (Norbert)
> + sob stories about old / stolen WinXP (Heiko)
>+ no sympathy - if running a 10 year old OS, can run old
> LibreOffice (Norbert)
>+ this is a meritocracy, who does the work chooses (Norbert, et. al)
> + even if we did remove it - always room for volunteers to make their
> own builds (Bjoern)
> + but no news here: we continue as before (Michael)
>


A side note about that. Both 5.2 as well as 5.1.5 should work much better
and fix the problem around curl on XP. That will bring back support for ucp
providers based on curl and the update check. Based on that experience
unless the toolchain makes it impossible most external libs seem to support
XP through passing the correct XP SDK version in.


>
>
> * Crashtest update (Caolan)
> + 1 import failure, 7 export failures, coverity pending
> + discovered there was a timeout, throwing an assert after 2 minutes
>   an issue on the crash-testing box, but not when tested.
> + marketing numbers of 0.00 for coverity correct as of last testing
> cf. 5.2 branch
> + database documents being round-tripped (Michael S)
>+ had a tendency to deadlock - 10% of them.
>+ ended up being killed by the python script: didn't result in a
> crashlog.
>+ only get an entry in the crashlog if we get a dispose exception.
>+ have a fix for that; to introduce in the database document the
>  solar mutex for locking
>+ another potential gift that will give and give.
>+ crash test now runs without deadlocking
>-> can we fix the python script - to report hangs ? (Michael)
>+ some where writer has an infinite layout loop (Michael S)
>+ should these be reported in crash-testing ? not sure.
>

The script was reporting the files it could not open and the files that
took too long. Keep in mind that this not only covers deadlocks and
therefore it was nearly impossible to get anything useful from the results.
It limits all tests for a file (so all the import and then reexport to
different formats to 3 minutes). In theory we could increase the limit and
enable reporting again to reduce the number of false positives but that
will also increase the runtime of the crash testing significantly.
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Markus Mohrhard]

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 5:08 PM, Michael Meeks 
wrote:

>
>
>
> + Most Pressing Bugs:
> http://tdf.io/mostressingbugs
> + tdf#100295 - LibODev-5.2.0.0.b2 does not run in Windows_XP (32
> or 64 bit)
> + Interest in fixing ?  (or is this a 'feature' ?)
> + Tor - thinks a feature.
> + last time - 10% of Windows market (Michael)
>+ compares vs. Mac install base.
> + can we bibisect for Windows to find what killed it.
> + could be related to breakpad ? (Cloph)
>+ a duplicate with more info in it out there.
>+ perhaps Moggi had a look ?
>


I think I mentioned it before. Currently I assume that it is a problem with
libcurl. Unless you specify that you want to compile against the correct
SDK version libcurl uses a vista function unconditionally. So this has been
an old problem (and would have crashed on XP if the corresponding ucp
component got loaded) but is now causing a crash already during start as
our minidump uploaded has a libcurl dependency.

There is a patch to fix it by telling the libcurl build to compile against
the old version but as I have no XP I can not test if it really helps.

Regards,
Markus
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Bjoern Michaelsen]

Hi,

On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 06:46:39PM +0200, jan iversen wrote:
> - To extend my nightly statistic script, to check new commits (probably 
> restricted to our code repo).
> - For every commit If the delta between the last commit from the author and 
> this commit is more than 1Year, the script will notify me.
> - I will write a "happy to see you again" mail, with copy the dev list, so 
> the author hopefully starts to be an active part of the community again.

Sounds great! For the last point, it might make sense to have a look at that
first-after-a-year commit for two reasons:
- to (mildly) personalize the "happy to see you" mail
- to superficially check for something fishy being sneaked it via a stolen key 
and ID

Best,

Bjoern
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Michael Meeks]

On Thu, 2016-06-02 at 18:46 +0200, jan iversen wrote:
> - For every commit If the delta between the last commit from the
> author and this commit is more than 1Year, the script will notify me.
...
> - I will write a "happy to see you again" mail, with copy the dev
> list, so the author hopefully starts to be an active part of the
> community again.

Sounds wonderful to me =)

Thanks Jan,

Michael.

-- 
 michael.me...@collabora.com  <><, Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[jan iversen]

> * Commit Access
>+ cleanup of stale? committers (Norbert)
>  + ran a script to find people with no commit >1 yr.
> + or should we let them stay around.
>  + some project revoked after 0.5 years (Miklos)
> + frugalware.
>  + do we have any problem with leaving them ? (Stephan)
> + no; but don't want to ever be (Norbert)
>  + concern wrt. removing committers (JanI)
> + openhub counts actual commits (Norbert)
>  + generate a mail if they arrive (JanI)
>  + social aspect concern (Michael)
> + if we can get people active again by poking (Bjoern)
>+ can be helpful.
> + otherwise leave open & put a watch on commits (Bjoern)
>+ just look at these carefully.
>+ and welcome them back.
>  + concern wrt. the work, some people move on (Norbert)
> + do we want to keep them open forever.
> + we have a bunch of ex. GSOC never seen again ?
>+ silently remove those we think are unlikely to come back
>+ concern wrt. creating lots of rules
>+ notify removing them.
>  + for sure - commit rights to random projects (Kendy)
> + not feel comfortable committing now.
> + if not for three years - through gerrit.
>=> leave up to JanI

Based on the above discussion, my intention is:

- To extend my nightly statistic script, to check new commits (probably 
restricted to our code repo).
- For every commit If the delta between the last commit from the author and 
this commit is more than 1Year, the script will notify me.
- I will write a "happy to see you again" mail, with copy the dev list, so the 
author hopefully starts to be an active part of the community again.

- We already have scripting in place, to mail authors who have not contributed 
for > 3 months. (see "20(20) to be emailed" in the stats.

- Before revoking anybodys commit right please notify me in advance, so I can 
write a nice email to them as a last poke before executing the revoke.

Suggestions and comments are welcome.
rgds
jan I




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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Cor Nouws]

Hi all,

Michael Meeks wrote on 21-04-16 18:29:
> + Most Pressing Bugs:

Some (..) meetings back this annoying Mac issue
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49853
was mentioned in the ESC. Which resulted in some good attention from
regular and less frequent LibreOffice hackers.
Alas apparently the latter got stuck, and there is no progress. So if
someone could have a look .. :)

Thanks,
Cor


-- 
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GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28  A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Bjoern Michaelsen]

On Thu, Apr 07, 2016 at 03:36:07PM +0100, Michael Meeks wrote:
> + Made some progress on writer regressions (Bjoern)
> + could close some - have commits, but not closed.

+ count is at 6 currently (all severity minor):
+ 2 SimpleWinLayout still (was reverted already?)
+ 2 more with committed fixes
+ 1 more Windows only
+ 1 general
+ 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Getting-LibreOffice-Writer-5-0-6-bibisected-regression-free-against-LibreOffice-4-4-0-was-LibreOffic-td4179580.html#a4179743

Assuming 2 SimpleWinLayout bugs can be closed as can those with committed
fixes, we are left with only 2 bibisected writer regressions (1 on non-windows)
left open from LibreOffice 5.0.0.

Best,

Bjoern
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Gülşah Köse]

Hi Marc

2016-03-25 18:29 GMT+02:00 Marc Paré :

> Hi,
>
> Le 2016-03-24 12:01, Michael Meeks a écrit :
>
>> * Hackfests (Bjoern)
>>  + next venues / suggestions
>>  + Ankara, Turkey
>>  +https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest/Ankara2016
>>  + plan do an overview talk first (Michael)
>>
>
> I've put this up on our GCal events calendar. Does anyone know who we
> should put down ad the LibreOffice Contact Person for the event?
>
>
If I misunderstand, you can add me as contact person.

Regards

-- 



Gülşah Köse
[image: https://]about.me/gulsahkose




* *
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Marc Paré]

Hi,

Le 2016-03-24 12:01, Michael Meeks a écrit :

* Hackfests (Bjoern)
 + next venues / suggestions
 + Ankara, Turkey
 +https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest/Ankara2016
 + plan do an overview talk first (Michael)


I've put this up on our GCal events calendar. Does anyone know who we 
should put down ad the LibreOffice Contact Person for the event?




 + Germany, Munich, LiMux; End of May 2016 (Jan-Marek)
 + Orga:https://wiki.debian.org/BSP/2016/05/de/Munich
 + 27-29 May (parallel to the Debian Sun Camp)


I would like to list this on the events calendar. Does anyone know the 
title that we should put down? A short blurb for the event would be 
nice, and who should we put down as the LibreOffice Contact Person for 
the event?


Thanks for the help.

Marc


--
Marc Paré
m...@marcpare.com
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Bjoern Michaelsen]

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 04:52:28PM +, Michael Meeks wrote:
> * Hackfests (Bjoern)
> + next venues / suggestions
> + Ankara, Turkey
> + https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest/Ankara2016

Confirmed date for the weekend now.

Best,

Bjoern
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Gülşah Köse]

Hi

2016-02-11 18:51 GMT+02:00 Michael Meeks :

>
>
> * Hackfests (Bjoern)
> + next venues / suggestions
> + Turkey (Aydin?)
> + https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayd%C4%B1n
> http://www.gulsahkose.com/2016/02/academic-informatic-conference-2016.html
> + talked to them; lots of enthusiasm & desire for training.
> + mid-March hack-fest expected.
>
>
We're going to organize this hackfest at Ankara (capital of Turkey).

Best



Gülşah Köse
[image: https://]about.me/gulsahkose




* *
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Minutes of ESC call [2016-02-04]

[Bjoern Michaelsen]

Hi,

On Thu, Feb 04, 2016 at 08:59:16PM +0100, Jan Holesovsky wrote:
> * Hackfests (Bjoern)
> + Turkey
> + talked to them; lots of enthusiasm & desire for training.
> + mid-March hack-fest expected.
> + concrete dates ?
> + concrete volunteer mentors?
> + Jan-Marek maybe

highlighting this item for visibility: We are contemplating a Hackfest in
Turkey, but it would be good to have at least some experienced mentors to go
there.

If you are interested, please contact me on list or off list.

Best,

Bjoern
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi all,

Michael Meeks píše v Čt 07. 01. 2016 v 16:11 +:

> + 5.1.0 RC2
> + deadline early next week for 5.1.0 RC2 & branch & hard-code-freeze.

There is one late feature we (the Design team) would like to ask for
late inclusion; sorry for not discussing it in the ESC on Thursday:

https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/21260/

The background:

To avoid too many 'Save' buttons in the toolbar ('normal' save, Save As,
Save Remote File, etc.), the solution taken was to introduce a dropdown
for the Save button where the less used functionality would be present
and accessible to the user.

Unfortunately that introduced a problem when the 'Save' button is
disabled: What to do with the dropdown when the Save itself is disabled?
How to behave the most logical way?

The solution (in the above gerrit request):

After some discussion & competitive analysis, we decided to kill the
possibility to disable Save, ie. now Save is always enabled.

We had an option for 'never disabling Save' already before, but we did
not make it the default yet, as too many people were using that as an
indicator of the changes in the document.

To provide the indicator functionality, now the 'Save' icon changes when
there are unsaved changes, and we'll have an alternative design (save
icon with an added asterisk) for the "unsaved changes present" state.
The updated icon is still to be provided, but should be in time for the
RC2 tagging.

Hope there are no concerns; the only alternative would be to revert the
Save-related changes.

+1's in gerrit appreciated, big thanks to Maxim for implementing the
feature & Samuel for backporting to libreoffice-5-1 gerrit.

Thank you,
Kendy

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Maxim Monastirsky]

Hi Michael,

On Thu, 2015-12-10 at 16:22 +, Michael Meeks wrote:
> 
> + poke the users-list on MS Surface / GL issue (Michael)
> [ oddly no reply ]
I suppose it's the same as tdf#95639 (some of the duplicates there
mention Surface)? You might get some input on Bugzilla then.

Maxim
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Noel Grandin]

On 10 December 2015 at 18:22, Michael Meeks  wrote:
> * Pending Action Items:
> + get callgrind trace of SVG rendering in tdf#82214 (JMux)
>

I have a patch in progress which may improve that:
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/20589/
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Norbert Thiebaud]

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Michael Meeks
 wrote:
> + 'make check' run by CI ? (Michael)
> + could we have this for Linux ?
> + run by dbgutil tinderbox - no all platforms (Norbert)
>+ need to run the numbers
>+ may be able to run the linux dbgutil make-check too.
>+ 4x targets
> + good news - Windows 30mins on average for gerrit.
>+ Linux  - 10 to 15mins ...
> AI: + try this for Linux (Norbert)
>+ not for windows this year.
>

to clarify: Jenkins tinderbox build _do_ run make check already on all platforms
the question is about having Gerrit build do the same.
Right now gerrit build do release build accross the board, doing 3
build (1 per platform) per gerrit change-set
since Windows gerrit build takes about 30 minutes and linux/mac take
in average less than half than.. it should be possible to add a debug
build for linux and maybe mac, without limiting the over throughput.
Doing so will require some work on the client wrapper script and
jenkins conf to pass argument and to migrate gerrit build to
distro-config driven configuration (done already or tinderboxes)

Norbert
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Michael Meeks]

On Thu, 2015-11-26 at 19:03 +0100, Markus Mohrhard wrote:
> please add a performance test that ensures that future refactorings
> won't regress here. In general any patch claiming performance
> improvements should be accompanied by a performance test to make sure

Great idea =) and easy to do too; Kendy ?

> Related to the code I wanted to mention that the getenv calls should
> be cached in a static variable as they might become expensive when

I was concerned by that too =) I believe the plan is to bin those; but
yes - good to check the perf tests for sure; and to have some nice
before/after step here.

ATB,

Michael.

-- 
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Markus Mohrhard]

Hey Michael, Keny, Eike,

On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 5:51 PM, Michael Meeks 
wrote:

>
> + calc s/w interpreter-related patch
> [ also got in before the freeze; an 18x speedup on CPU for
>   some test sheets; currently guarded by a variable - and
>   subsetting to just some sheets.
>  + plan to test with crash-testing sheets & enable by
> default
>   Would like to look at it (Eike)
>  + dislike env.vars set - avoids the unit-tests
> + plan to remove it before ship (Kendy)
> + turn into normal config & default ->
> testable.
> + would like to turn it on now - default on for
> user-testing (Kendy)
> + optional B2 in the release-plan (Cloph)
> + can have an intermediate release.
>  + goal of the code - vectors of doubles
> + formula results (Michael)
> + moves big chunk of ptr chasing & branching
> from inner loop.
> ]
>


please add a performance test that ensures that future refactorings won't
regress here. In general any patch claiming performance improvements should
be accompanied by a performance test to make sure that we can still
refactor the code without someone complaining that we introduced huge
performance regression.

Related to the code I wanted to mention that the getenv calls should be
cached in a static variable as they might become expensive when called
repeatedly and that the new virtual method calls are not free so I would
like to see some before and after numbers for both the supposed 18x speedup
case and our normal matrix handling code.

Regards,
Markus
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi Robinson,

Robinson Tryon píše v St 25. 11. 2015 v 16:03 -0500:

> It looks like the rename script got greedy and erroneously modified an
> ODT (sw/qa/complex/writer/testdocuments/TESTXMLID.odt):
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=49c2b9808df8a6b197dec666dfc0cda6321a4306
> 
> Could you add file extension white/black -listing to the script to
> prevent it from modifying non-code files in the future?

Sorry about that, I had there blacklisting of the 'data' subdirs in the
unit tests, but forgot 'testdocuments' of the complex tests, added now:

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=55d0a5e43c968798fe52587f9dae256d94e9ce53

All the best,
Kendy

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Robinson Tryon]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Jan Holesovsky  wrote:
>> * Further renaming in sw (Kendy/Miklos)
>> + Kendy would again update the script so that Cloph can run it before 
>> the branch-off
>> + script lives in: bin/rename-sw-abbreviations.sh
>
> I've pushed several renames so that running the script causes no
> warnings and no errors, and pushed the updated script:
>
> http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=3190f5a71dd3e63260edebc345aead4746a269a3
>
> Additional testing appreciated of course :-)

Hi Kendy,
It looks like the rename script got greedy and erroneously modified an
ODT (sw/qa/complex/writer/testdocuments/TESTXMLID.odt):
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=49c2b9808df8a6b197dec666dfc0cda6321a4306

Could you add file extension white/black -listing to the script to
prevent it from modifying non-code files in the future?

Thanks,
--R

-- 
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LibreOffice Community Outreach Herald
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi Miklos, Robinson,

Michael Meeks píše v Čt 12. 11. 2015 v 16:37 +:
 
> * Further renaming in sw (Kendy/Miklos)
> + Kendy would again update the script so that Cloph can run it before the 
> branch-off
> + new improvements to fix:
> + Sw*Frm -> Sw*Frame, Crsr -> Cursor
>-- now that sw::Frame is gone (specific to binary word filter)
> + script lives in: bin/rename-sw-abbreviations.sh
> + concern wrt. testing before commit (Norbert)
> + can test the script in advance (Miklos)

I've pushed several renames so that running the script causes no
warnings and no errors, and pushed the updated script:

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=3190f5a71dd3e63260edebc345aead4746a269a3

Additional testing appreciated of course :-)

> + use more precise Clang plugins ? (Bjoern)
>+ nail the comments too (Miklos)
> AI: + run the script just before branch-off (Robinson)

It should be just a matter of running:

bin/rename-sw-abbreviations.sh

on a tree that has no local modifications, a test build, and a push like
Cloph did the last time:

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=ab465b90f6c6da5595393a0ba73f33a1e71a2b65

Thank you,
Kendy

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Bjoern Michaelsen]

Hi,

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 04:37:28PM +, Michael Meeks wrote:
> * Hackfests (Bjoern)
> + GNOME hack-fest in Madrid - Dec 2nd -> 4th (Jacobo)
>   + sent an invitation to LibreOffice deployments in Spain
>   + they may need funding to attend.
>   + Wiki page pending - Bjoern working on it.

Inital setup here:

 https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest/Madrid2015

please be a good wiki citizen and add/modify/correct at your hearts pleasure!

Best,

Bjoern
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Xisco Faulí]

>
> * Hackfests (Bjoern)
> + Could we join the GNOME hack-fest in Madrid ? (Bjoern)
> + booked a room.
> + if they get 5x more LibreOffice hackers - would be good.
> + 3x confirmed people: Bubli, JanI, Bjoern.
> + volunteers are invited.
> + may attend the hack-fest (Jacobo)
> + no wiki page yet Dec 2nd -> 4th planned.
> + waiting for confirmation.
>

Hi,

I'm currently living in Madrid and I'd like to attempt the meeting. It goes
without saying that I can give a hand on the field if help is needed.

Regards
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Bjoern Michaelsen]

Hi Xisco,

On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 09:55:57AM +0100, Xisco Faulí wrote:
> > * Hackfests (Bjoern)
> > + Could we join the GNOME hack-fest in Madrid ? (Bjoern)
> I'm currently living in Madrid and I'd like to attempt the meeting. It goes
> without saying that I can give a hand on the field if help is needed.

You are most welcome! Looking forward to meet you there.

Best,

Bjoern
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Cedric Bosdonnat]

On Mon, 2015-10-19 at 10:17 +0100, Michael Meeks wrote:
> + ask students to write their own wrap-ups to aggregate (Cedric)

Done. Thanks to all who helped me, the wrapup is out and rerouted to
Google folks.

--
Cedric

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Tommy]

Michael Meeks wrote:



* Raw data for new metrics:
 + issues marked as 'highest' priority.
 + considered equivalent to MAB.

 http://tdf.io/mab




I like the new table but I think it would be better to put the "total" 
column just after the release column, and then the different subtotal 
components...


moreover since the table is very large and you need to scroll 
horizontally to see it's end it would be useful to have the release 
number column on both ends of the table, otherwise when you are on the 
extreme right you don't know which release are you looking at


just my 2 cents

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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Pedro]

Hi all


Michael Meeks-5 wrote
> * Release Engineering update (Cloph)
> + 5.0.3 - RC1 status
> + tagged and released for most platforms
> + up-loaded & ready for testing.
> + found a nasty OpenGL perf. issue (Michael)

 

In case no one noticed, there aren't any 5.0.3.1  x86 builds for Windows
(but the x64 have been there for almost 24h)

Maybe this is related to the fact that there aren't any daily builds for Win
x86 since Oct 5th for the 5.0 branch and since Oct 6th for Master?

Regards,
Pedro



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Terrence Enger  wrote:
> Pedro wrote
>> Maybe this is related to the fact that there aren't any daily builds for
>> Win x86 since Oct 5th for the 5.0 branch and since Oct 6th for Master?
>
> Where are the Windows daily builds?  I have been watching
> , especially Win-x86@39/,

For the TDF bot, see earlier note - when it's on release-build duty,
it won't provide tinderbox builds - as to  @39: that's  not maintained
by me, but by kendy...

ciao
Christian
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] minutes of ESC call ...

[Pedro]

Hi Christian, all


Christian Lohmaier-3 wrote
> That's because the build-system ran out of diskspace, and I had to
> retrigger the build...
> 
> (that's also why it hasn't been announced yet)
> 
> And yes, related to no tinderbox builds, as they are also provided by
> that box - but when  it  is busy doing release-builds, it won't do
> tinderbox builds...

Thank you for the quick answer.

In theory TB #62 should also be producing x64 dailies for branch 5.0 and
Master but it is not.
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/libreoffice-5-0/Win-x86_64@62-TDF/
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/Win-x86_64@62-TDF/

Maybe you are asking too much of Tinderbox 62? :)

Regards,
Pedro



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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Minutes of ESC call: 2015-07-30

[Cor Nouws]

Hi all,

Jan Holesovsky wrote on 01-08-15 02:43:

 + !!!please file easy hacks if you have ideas!!! (Bjoern)

For ideas, query with needsDevEval in Whiteboard.
At least part of those could be good candidates.

Thanks,

-- 
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Re: [Libreoffice-qa] Minutes of ESC call: 2015-07-30

[Norbert Thiebaud]

On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Markus Mohrhard
markus.mohrh...@googlemail.com wrote:


 AI: + will have a look at the CppUnit to implement 'expected failure'
 (Jan-Marek)
 + Cpp logs are e.g. in
 workdir/CppunitTest/sal_rtl_math.test.log



 That is already possible with cppunit. Instead of using CPPUNIT_TEST use
 CPPUNIT_TEST_FAIL which tells cppunit that the test is expected to fail with
 a cppunit exception being thrown (it is extensively used in the cppunit
 internal unit tests). The test will start to fail when none of the asserts
 fail anymore. Keep in mind that it might be dangerous to use this with more
 than one assertion as an unexpected one might fail.


That is not exactly what tha aim is...
the aim is to have a failure be repport as such and not stop
everything.. when a test is tagged as _can fail_ or something
this is when a test is added before the fix

also the minutes claim that cppunit log exist.. it is true they do,
but they are not exploitable.
I would like to be able to repport at the end of the build a nice recap

module section nb_of_test #sucess #skipped #failed
for each failed
spacetestname : FAILED (optionally one line reason)

the minute point to
workdir/CppunitTest/sal_rtl_math.test.log
which contains:
OK (3)

but  writerperfect_writer.test.log fro instance
contain 12027 lines.. most of it random trace messages, and I could
not find any way to parse (at all, even less reliably) that thing to
extract any useful information.

maybe it is just a matter of using
http://cppunit.sourceforge.net/doc/1.8.0/class_cpp_unit_1_1_xml_outputter.html
and then adding a (optional) post processing step in the build to
generate a nice summary

Norbert
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