Re: How to extract the current time signature

[David Kastrup]

Urs Liska  writes:

> [Reviving a pretty ancient thread]
>
> Hi Abraham and Harm (and others),
>
> Am 22.01.15 um 14:17 schrieb tisimst:
>> Harm,
>>
>>
>> Thomas Morley-2 wrote
>>> Maybe:
>>>
>>> \version "2.19.15"
>>>
>>> printTimeSignatureFraction =
>>> \applyContext #(lambda (ctx)
>>>(let* ((context
>>> (ly:context-property-where-defined ctx 'timeSignatureFraction))
>>>   (time-sig-frac
>>> (ly:context-property context 'timeSignatureFraction)))
>>>(display time-sig-frac)))

This is completely unrelated but this code is nonsensical.  It's
identical to

printTimeSignatureFraction =
\applyContext #(lambda (ctx)
   (let* ((time-sig-frac
(ly:context-property ctx 'timeSignatureFraction)))
 (display time-sig-frac)))

since context property lookups are hierarchical/inherited.  There is no
point in finding out just _which_ parent context defined
timeSignatureFraction for reading it.  If you are planning to rewrite
it, there is some incentive to do it at the level you got it from.  But
for reading, this is pointless.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: How to extract the current time signature

[Urs Liska]

[Reviving a pretty ancient thread]

Hi Abraham and Harm (and others),

Am 22.01.15 um 14:17 schrieb tisimst:

Harm,


Thomas Morley-2 wrote

Maybe:

\version "2.19.15"

printTimeSignatureFraction =
\applyContext #(lambda (ctx)
   (let* ((context
(ly:context-property-where-defined ctx 'timeSignatureFraction))
  (time-sig-frac
(ly:context-property context 'timeSignatureFraction)))
   (display time-sig-frac)))

\relative c' {
 \time 3/2
 \printTimeSignatureFraction % => (3 . 2)
 c''1
 \compoundMeter #'((1 4) (3 8))
 \printTimeSignatureFraction % => (5 . 8) !!
 \repeat unfold 5 c8 \repeat unfold 10 c16
}

Though the compound TimeSig will return "summarized"

Cheers,
   Harm

That works great! Thanks so much for your help. Perhaps I should have
mentioned it in the original post, but I'd like to be able to use the values
in time-sig-frac to automatically make a MultiMeasureRest with the duration
of the full measure, but when I attempt to do so, nothing gets added to my
score. Here's my latest and greatest:

%<--

\version "2.18.2"

autoMMR =
\applyContext #(lambda (ctx)
   (let* ((context
(ly:context-property-where-defined ctx 'timeSignatureFraction))
  (time-sig-frac
(ly:context-property context 'timeSignatureFraction))
  (num (car time-sig-frac))
  (den (cdr time-sig-frac)))
 (make-music 'MultiMeasureRestMusic
'duration
(ly:make-duration 0 0 num den)
'articulations
'())
))

\relative c' {
   \time 3/2
   \autoMMR
   c'1.

   \compoundMeter #'((1 4)(3 8))
   \autoMMR
   \repeat unfold 5 c8 \repeat unfold 10 c16
}

%<--

I know that applyContext creates its own "(make-music ..." block, so maybe
there's some scoping issue I'm not aware of. Any further help would be
greatly appreciated!

-Abraham

I've just run into the very same issue (also trying to create a MMR for 
the current measure's duration.


Looking at the code examples above I'm pretty sure the problem is not a 
"scoping" but a "timing" issue - I think \applyContext performs the 
context lookup long after the MMR has been created. This seems pretty 
clear because at the time a music-function is interpreted (and the 
duration would be needed to create the MMR) it is not clear where this 
music will end up. Consider the case when you define this in a variable 
which you'll then reuse multiple times (possibly starting at different 
moments in a measure or wrapped in \scaleDurations or \tuplet-s).


So while I get why this doesn't work that way, is there any chance to 
create a one-measure MMR from a music-function?


My use case is that I want to align an arbitrary markup (or music of 
arbitrary length) with a measure by (ab)using the MMR, I don't want to 
require a duration argument to the music function, and making it 
optional seems to interfere with the rest of the function signature.


Urs


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Re: Change staff clef immediately after time signature

[Christopher R. Maden]

On 2/4/19 10:18 AM, Aaron Hill wrote:

I overlooked \cueClefUnset so that's the better option.

For the grob, the Internals reference is your friend: CueEndClef


Thanks!  I really need to get more familiar with the internals 
reference.  One of these days in my copious free time.


David, thanks for the \grace suggestion — interestingly, when I tried 
it, the new clef overlapped the time signature, not the primary clefs, 
and I didn’t get the weird doubling in the right hand.


I’m still a little surprised that LilyPond doesn’t have a setting 
somewhere to explicitly place clefs regardless of propriety, similar to 
the way one can force an accidental.  Nonetheless, this is a great 
solution for now — thanks, Aaron and David (and everyone who has helped 
make this such an amazing piece of software).


~Chris
--
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http://crism.maden.org/ >
Emperor Norton had the right idea.

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Re: Change staff clef immediately after time signature

[Aaron Hill]

On 2019-02-04 6:47 am, Christopher R. Maden wrote:

On 2/4/19 6:03 AM, Aaron Hill wrote:
Note in this case I changed the CueClef font-size to match the reduced 
size of a non-cue clef when it appears within a line.


That looks great, thanks!  The \cueClefUnset bass clef still looks
tiny, and if I use \cueClef to switch back to bass, it shows up in
every line...  If I switch back with \cueClef bass, but then use
\cueClefUnset later, I get a redundant tiny bass clef, and if I use
\cueClef bass immediately followed by \cueClefUnset, the unset
supersedes the set, and I get a tiny clef.

I tried the naïve override: \override CueClefUnset.font-size = #-2 but
that has no apparent effect.  What’s the grob used to produce the clef
at an unset event?


I overlooked \cueClefUnset so that's the better option.

For the grob, the Internals reference is your friend: CueEndClef

-- Aaron Hill

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Re: Change staff clef immediately after time signature

[Christopher R. Maden]

On 2/4/19 6:03 AM, Aaron Hill wrote:
Note in this case I changed the CueClef font-size to match the reduced 
size of a non-cue clef when it appears within a line.


That looks great, thanks!  The \cueClefUnset bass clef still looks tiny, 
and if I use \cueClef to switch back to bass, it shows up in every 
line...  If I switch back with \cueClef bass, but then use \cueClefUnset 
later, I get a redundant tiny bass clef, and if I use \cueClef bass 
immediately followed by \cueClefUnset, the unset supersedes the set, and 
I get a tiny clef.


I tried the naïve override: \override CueClefUnset.font-size = #-2 but 
that has no apparent effect.  What’s the grob used to produce the clef 
at an unset event?


~Chris
--
Chris Maden, text nerd
http://crism.maden.org/ >
Emperor Norton had the right idea.

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Re: Change staff clef immediately after time signature

[David Kastrup]

"Christopher R. Maden"  writes:

> This is probably a FAQ, but I can’t find the right combination of
> search terms to tease it from the ether...
>
> I want a piano staff, with the left hand to start with bass clef, but
> then immediately switch to treble clef after the time signature.
>
> Mnon-WE is attached.  Probably this involves monkeying with the clef
> engraver, but I haven’t figured out how.

Here is an attempt that would still suffer from issue 34 but even if you
fix that, the spacing is insane.

\version "2.18.2"

\include "english.ly"

\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff {
\clef treble
\key d \major
\time 4/4
d''4 d'' d'' d''
  }
  \new Staff {
\clef bass
\key d \major
\time 4/4
\grace s4 \clef treble
d'4 d' d' d'
  }
>>


-- 
David Kastrup
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Re: Change staff clef immediately after time signature

[Aaron Hill]

On 2019-02-03 8:44 pm, Christopher R. Maden wrote:

On 2/3/19 9:43 PM, Aaron Hill wrote:

Does \cueClef help?


It does... though then when I \clef bass back again it’s ignored.  I
can use \cueClefUnset...

Thanks, this is a great workaround.  I suspect there is a better (more
properly LilyPondish) answer, but this is more than adequate for now.


Simply use \cueClef again when switching back to bass:


\version "2.19.82"

rh = \relative c'' { c2 a | b g }
lh = \relative a' { a4 f d b | g4 e c a }

% Using \clef only.
\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff << { \clef treble } \rh >>
  \new Staff << { \clef treble s1 \clef bass } \lh >>




% Using \clef and \cueClef together.
\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff << { \clef treble } \rh >>
  \new Staff \with { \override CueClef.font-size = #-2 }
<< { \clef bass \cueClef treble s1 \cueClef bass } \lh >>





Note in this case I changed the CueClef font-size to match the reduced 
size of a non-cue clef when it appears within a line.



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Re: Change staff clef immediately after time signature

[Andrew Bernard]

HI Chris,

That makes sense. I also like to preserve the composer's own notation where
possible. And as said, it's not actually wrong! Good old Sousa!

Andrew


On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 at 16:43, Christopher R. Maden  wrote:

>
> I’m transcribing Sousa’s “A Typical Tune of Zanzibar,”[*] and I’m trying
> not to change the notation too much unnecessarily.
>
>
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Re: Change staff clef immediately after time signature

[Christopher R. Maden]

On 2/4/19 12:36 AM, Andrew Bernard wrote:

This comes up reasonably often. May I ask why you don't simply start
the piece with the treble clef? If you immediately change to treble,
what is the point of having the bass clef at this point? It's a
musical decision up to you, but it always strikes me as a bit
unnecessary. Any player will know the lower staff is the left hand,
assuming this is normalish piano music, so there is no need for a
bass clef to remind them. What you want is not wrong. just clumsy,
and adds more visual noise to a score for the brain to deal with.


I’m transcribing Sousa’s “A Typical Tune of Zanzibar,”[*] and I’m trying 
not to change the notation too much unnecessarily.


I also think it kind of makes sense — the lower staff is almost entirely 
in the bass clef, and it makes sense to set that expectation right at 
the start, even if the first two bars are in treble clef.


~Chris

[*] http://levysheetmusic.mse.jhu.edu/collection/073/057 >
--
Chris Maden, text nerd
http://crism.maden.org/ >
Emperor Norton had the right idea.

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Re: Change staff clef immediately after time signature

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Christopher,

This comes up reasonably often. May I ask why you don't simply start the
piece with the treble clef? If you immediately change to treble, what is
the point of having the bass clef at this point? It's a musical decision up
to you, but it always strikes me as a bit unnecessary. Any player will know
the lower staff is the left hand, assuming this is normalish piano music,
so there is no need for a bass clef to remind them. What you want is not
wrong. just clumsy, and adds more visual noise to a score for the brain to
deal with.

Andrew
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Re: Change staff clef immediately after time signature

[Christopher R. Maden]

On 2/3/19 9:43 PM, Aaron Hill wrote:

Does \cueClef help?


It does... though then when I \clef bass back again it’s ignored.  I can 
use \cueClefUnset...


Thanks, this is a great workaround.  I suspect there is a better (more 
properly LilyPondish) answer, but this is more than adequate for now.


Thanks again,
Chris
--
Chris Maden, text nerd
http://crism.maden.org/ >
Emperor Norton had the right idea.

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Re: Change staff clef immediately after time signature

[Aaron Hill]

On 2019-02-03 6:43 pm, Aaron Hill wrote:

On 2019-02-03 6:33 pm, Christopher R. Maden wrote:

This is probably a FAQ, but I can’t find the right combination of
search terms to tease it from the ether...

I want a piano staff, with the left hand to start with bass clef, but
then immediately switch to treble clef after the time signature.

Mnon-WE is attached.  Probably this involves monkeying with the clef
engraver, but I haven’t figured out how.


Does \cueClef help?


\version "2.19.82"

\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff { \clef treble b'2 2 }
  \new Staff { \clef bass \cueClef treble b'4 4 4 4 }
>>



And if you want to change the size:


\version "2.19.82"

\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff { \clef treble b'2 2 }
  \new Staff { \clef bass
\once \override Staff.CueClef.font-size = #0
\cueClef treble b'4 4 4 4
  }





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Re: Change staff clef immediately after time signature

[Aaron Hill]

On 2019-02-03 6:33 pm, Christopher R. Maden wrote:

This is probably a FAQ, but I can’t find the right combination of
search terms to tease it from the ether...

I want a piano staff, with the left hand to start with bass clef, but
then immediately switch to treble clef after the time signature.

Mnon-WE is attached.  Probably this involves monkeying with the clef
engraver, but I haven’t figured out how.


Does \cueClef help?


\version "2.19.82"

\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff { \clef treble b'2 2 }
  \new Staff { \clef bass \cueClef treble b'4 4 4 4 }





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Change staff clef immediately after time signature

[Christopher R. Maden]

This is probably a FAQ, but I can’t find the right combination of search 
terms to tease it from the ether...


I want a piano staff, with the left hand to start with bass clef, but 
then immediately switch to treble clef after the time signature.


Mnon-WE is attached.  Probably this involves monkeying with the clef 
engraver, but I haven’t figured out how.


Thanks in advance,
Chris
--
Chris Maden, text nerd
http://crism.maden.org/ >
Emperor Norton had the right idea.
\version "2.18.2"

\include "english.ly"

\new PianoStaff <<
  \new Staff {
\clef treble
\key d \major
\time 4/4
d''4 d'' d'' d''
  }
  \new Staff {
\clef bass
\key d \major
\time 4/4
\clef treble
d'4 d' d' d'
  }
>>
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Re: Start score with barline (after time signature)

[David Kastrup]

Aaron Hill  writes:

> On 2019-01-29 8:05 am, Urs Liska wrote:
>> I need to engrave a score that starts with a barline immediately after
>> the time signature (to demonstrate the barline, that is), as can be
>> seen in the attached image.
>>
>> By default this barline is not printed at all, but when I insert a
>> very short skip (even 1/128) there is a pretty huge gap between the
>> time signature and the barline.
>
> You can change the default behavior for bar lines:
>
> 
> \version "2.19.82"
> #(define-bar-line "||" "||" "||" "||")
> { \bar "||" b'1 }
> 

Probably better for both spacing and Midi than my hack.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: Start score with barline (after time signature)

[Aaron Hill]

On 2019-01-29 8:05 am, Urs Liska wrote:

I need to engrave a score that starts with a barline immediately after
the time signature (to demonstrate the barline, that is), as can be
seen in the attached image.

By default this barline is not printed at all, but when I insert a
very short skip (even 1/128) there is a pretty huge gap between the
time signature and the barline.


You can change the default behavior for bar lines:


\version "2.19.82"
#(define-bar-line "||" "||" "||" "||")
{ \bar "||" b'1 }



-- Aaron Hill

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Re: Start score with barline (after time signature)

[Urs Liska]

Am 29.01.19 um 17:15 schrieb David Kastrup:

Urs Liska  writes:


I need to engrave a score that starts with a barline immediately after
the time signature (to demonstrate the barline, that is), as can be
seen in the attached image.

By default this barline is not printed at all, but when I insert a
very short skip (even 1/128) there is a pretty huge gap between the
time signature and the barline.

How can I control and/or remove this space?
Thanks for any pointers
Urs

{ \grace s128 \bar "||" c'1 }



Thank you!

I was wondering if I should hope for or be afraid of such a trivial 
solution ;-)


Best
Urs


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Re: Start score with barline (after time signature)

[David Kastrup]

Urs Liska  writes:

> I need to engrave a score that starts with a barline immediately after
> the time signature (to demonstrate the barline, that is), as can be
> seen in the attached image.
>
> By default this barline is not printed at all, but when I insert a
> very short skip (even 1/128) there is a pretty huge gap between the
> time signature and the barline.
>
> How can I control and/or remove this space?
> Thanks for any pointers
> Urs

{ \grace s128 \bar "||" c'1 }


-- 
David Kastrup
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Start score with barline (after time signature)

[Urs Liska]

I need to engrave a score that starts with a barline immediately after 
the time signature (to demonstrate the barline, that is), as can be seen 
in the attached image.


By default this barline is not printed at all, but when I insert a very 
short skip (even 1/128) there is a pretty huge gap between the time 
signature and the barline.


How can I control and/or remove this space?
Thanks for any pointers
Urs

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Re: Time signature and beat markers

[Mark Knoop]

At 21:16 on 06 Nov 2018, Andrew Bernard wrote:
>Answering my own question, this simple approach works:
>
>  \time 5/4
>  \set Timing.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 1/4)
>
>I'm happy to make the thincker barlines manually, unless anybody has
>some clever special engraver ideas.

Try something like this:

\version "2.19.21"

barSigs = #(define-music-function
  (numbars timesig)
  (number? fraction?)
  (_i "make empty bars")
  (let* ((tsnumerator (car timesig))
 (tsdenominator (cdr timesig))
 (dotbeats (- tsnumerator 1)))
#{
\time #timesig
\repeat unfold #numbars {
  \repeat unfold #dotbeats { s4 \bar "|" }
  s4 \bar "."
}
#}))

{
  <<
{ % this is your global variable
  \barSigs 3 5/4 % 3 bars of 5/4
  \barSigs 1 3/4 % 1 bar of 3/4
}
{ % this is your music
  \repeat unfold 18 c'4
}
  >>
}

-- 
Mark Knoop

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Re: Time signature and beat markers

[Karim Haddad]

Dear Andrew,


I would do this like that :


\version "2.19.82"  
  

  
music = {   
  
  \scaleDurations 5/1 { 
  
  \time 5/4 
  
  \set Staff.timeSignatureFraction = #'(5 . 4)  
  
c'4 c'16 c' c' c' c'4 c' c' 
  
  \once \set Staff.whichBar = "|"   
  
  c'4 c'8 c' c'4 c' c'  
  
  \once \set Staff.whichBar = "|"   
  
}   
  
}   
  

  
\score {
  
  \new Staff \music 
  
  \layout { 
  
\context{\Score 
  
   defaultBarType = #"" 
  
 }  
  
}   
  
} 


However, this could yield some strange warnings specially if u use non standard 
time signatures like 12/21, etc... But it works perfectly well. I have been 
using this for my polymeter/polytempi scores...

Best
K

> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2018 20:10:52 +1100
> From: Andrew Bernard 
> To: lilypond-user Mailinglist 
> Subject: Re: Time signature and beat markers
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Here is my MWE. It seems rather naive, and I feel there must be more
> intelligent ways to do this. Here's a basis for help to start with,
> hopefully making clearer what I want.
> 
> The disadvantage here of course is that the heavier barlines have to be
> manually inserted. Not a large effort, but just does not seem smooth.
> 
> %
> 
> \version "2.19.82"
> 
> music = {
>   \time 5/4
>   \scaleDurations 5/1 {
>   c'4 c'16 c' c' c' c'4 c' c'
>   \bar "."
>   c'4 c'8 c' c'4 c' c'
>   \bar "."
>   }
> }
> 
> \score {
>   \new Staff \music
>   \layout {}
> }
> 
> %
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 
-- 
Karim Haddad


webpage : http://karim.haddad.free.fr

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Re: Time signature and beat markers

[Andrew Bernard]

Answering my own question, this simple approach works:

  \time 5/4
  \set Timing.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 1/4)

I'm happy to make the thincker barlines manually, unless anybody has some
clever special engraver ideas.

Andrew
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Re: Time signature and beat markers

[Andrew Bernard]

Here is my MWE. It seems rather naive, and I feel there must be more
intelligent ways to do this. Here's a basis for help to start with,
hopefully making clearer what I want.

The disadvantage here of course is that the heavier barlines have to be
manually inserted. Not a large effort, but just does not seem smooth.

%

\version "2.19.82"

music = {
  \time 5/4
  \scaleDurations 5/1 {
  c'4 c'16 c' c' c' c'4 c' c'
  \bar "."
  c'4 c'8 c' c'4 c' c'
  \bar "."
  }
}

\score {
  \new Staff \music
  \layout {}
}

%

Andrew



On Tue, 6 Nov 2018 at 13:44, Andrew Bernard 
wrote:

> My complexity school composer colleague uses what he calls beat markers
> instead of barlines to assist players locating where they are in the
> complex mass of notes. So for example, we have a section of 5/4. but there
> is a barline (actually, we use the old mensural type line system) every
> beat, so I set the music in 1/4. Previously, we have omitted the actual
> time signature for various reaons, but now I want it displayed.
>
> So how can I show 5/4 but have the music be in 1/4 for creating the 'beat
> lines' (just think of them as barlines). And so on for a whole lot of other
> time signatures.
>
> Attached image may make this clearer.
>
> While we are here, how could I get the time signature between the systems,
> as in this manuscript copy?
>
> Andrew
>
>
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Re: Single digit double time signature

[Cantus Ornatus]

It works perfectly.
Thanks a lot!
Francesco

Il giorno gio 13 set 2018 alle ore 16:14 Jean Bréfort 
ha scritto:

> Hi,
>
> You might try something like:
>
> \override Staff.TimeSignature #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
> \override Staff.TimeSignature #'text = \markup {\musicglyph #"timesig.C44"
> \lower #0.9 \bold \large "3"}
> \time 3/2
>
> Hope this jelps,
> Jean
>
> Le jeudi 13 septembre 2018 à 15:49 +0200, Cantus Ornatus a écrit :
> > Hi everyone.
> > Typesetting mensural music I often find double time signatures with a
> > single digit like C 3, O 3, and so on.
> >
> > Is it possible modifying the standard double time signature syntax in
> > order to have such a layout (second page)?
> >
> > https://goo.gl/FBm2UL
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > F.
> >
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> > https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>
>
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Re: Single digit double time signature

[Jean Bréfort]

Hi,

You might try something like:

\override Staff.TimeSignature #'stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
\override Staff.TimeSignature #'text = \markup {\musicglyph #"timesig.C44" 
\lower #0.9 \bold \large "3"}
\time 3/2

Hope this jelps,
Jean

Le jeudi 13 septembre 2018 à 15:49 +0200, Cantus Ornatus a écrit :
> Hi everyone.
> Typesetting mensural music I often find double time signatures with a
> single digit like C 3, O 3, and so on. 
> 
> Is it possible modifying the standard double time signature syntax in
> order to have such a layout (second page)?
> 
> https://goo.gl/FBm2UL 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> F.
> 
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Re: Single digit double time signature

[Aaron Hill]

On 2018-09-13 6:49 am, Cantus Ornatus wrote:

Hi everyone.
Typesetting mensural music I often find double time signatures with a
single digit like C 3, O 3, and so on.

Is it possible modifying the standard double time signature syntax in 
order

to have such a layout (second page)?

https://goo.gl/FBm2UL


Assuming "C 3" is intended to mean "4+3/4", then you can use 
\compoundMeter to set the time signature and then override its visual 
appearance.  Perhaps something like this:



\version "2.19.82"
<< {
  \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil = #ly:text-interface::print
  \override Staff.TimeSignature.text = \markup \concat {
\musicglyph "timesig.C44" \hspace #1
\lower #1 \musicglyph "three" }
  \compoundMeter #'(4 3 4)
  e'2 g'4 e' d' e'2
} >>


Note that I used the "normal" time symbol "C" as opposed to the mensural 
version.  I think it looks better next to the numeric three, but you can 
use any of the glyphs in the font.  Or really whatever you want, since 
you have the full power of markup there.


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Re: Single digit double time signature

[Torsten Hämmerle]

Cantus Ornatus wrote
> Is it possible modifying the standard double time signature syntax in
> order
> to have such a layout?

Hi F.,

You can change the time signature style to single-digit:
  \override Staff.TimeSignature.style = #'single-digit
That way, only the numerator will be printed.

Other style possibilities are #'mensural or #'neomensural for special
mensural glyphs.

HTH,
Torsten



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Single digit double time signature

[Cantus Ornatus]

Hi everyone.
Typesetting mensural music I often find double time signatures with a
single digit like C 3, O 3, and so on.

Is it possible modifying the standard double time signature syntax in order
to have such a layout (second page)?

https://goo.gl/FBm2UL

Thanks in advance,
F.
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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[dfro]

Kieren,
Thank you.

Peace,
David


On 6/1/18 11:43 AM, Kieren MacMillan wrote:

Hi David,


Is it possible to get the markup to attach to the clef or time signature only 
in the bass staff? I am getting the text to show, but it is attaching to both 
staves.

You’ve put the Balloon_engraver in the Score context, so all staves will 
display balloons. Use \with on the one Staff context instead (see below). If 
you need it on more than one, but not all, staves, you might consider creating 
a custom StaffWithBalloons context.

Hope that helps!
Kieren.

%%%  SNIPPET BEGINS
\version "2.19.80"

melody = \relative c' {
   c4 c c c
}

stuff = {
   \balloonGrobText #'TimeSignature #'(0 . -1) \markup "test1"
   \balloonGrobText #'Clef #'(0 . -1) \markup "test2"
   \time 2/4
   c2 c
}

\score {
   \new StaffGroup
   <<
 \new Staff { \clef "treble" \melody }
 \new Staff \with {
   \consists "Balloon_engraver"
   \override BalloonTextItem.annotation-balloon = ##f
   \override BalloonTextItem.annotation-line = ##f
   \override BalloonTextItem.font-size = #-2
   \override BalloonTextItem.font-series = #'bold
 }
 { \clef "bass" \stuff }
   >>
}
%%%  SNIPPET ENDS


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info




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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[David Kastrup]

Kieren MacMillan  writes:

> Hi David,
>
>> Is it possible to get the markup to attach to the clef or time signature 
>> only in the bass staff? I am getting the text to show, but it is attaching 
>> to both staves.
>
> You’ve put the Balloon_engraver in the Score context, so all staves will 
> display balloons. Use \with on the one Staff context instead (see below). If 
> you need it on more than one, but not all, staves, you might consider 
> creating a custom StaffWithBalloons context.
>
> Hope that helps!
> Kieren.
>
> %%%  SNIPPET BEGINS
> \version "2.19.80"
>
> melody = \relative c' {
>   c4 c c c
> }
>
> stuff = {
>   \balloonGrobText #'TimeSignature #'(0 . -1) \markup "test1"
>   \balloonGrobText #'Clef #'(0 . -1) \markup "test2"
>   \time 2/4
>   c2 c
> }
>
> \score {
>   \new StaffGroup
>   <<
> \new Staff { \clef "treble" \melody }
> \new Staff \with {
>   \consists "Balloon_engraver"
>   \override BalloonTextItem.annotation-balloon = ##f
>   \override BalloonTextItem.annotation-line = ##f
>   \override BalloonTextItem.font-size = #-2
>   \override BalloonTextItem.font-series = #'bold
> }
> { \clef "bass" \stuff }
>   >>
> }
> %%%  SNIPPET ENDS

I wanted to add a learned treatise of how to do this properly.  But then
I looked at the code rather than the documentation (as is my wont)

balloonGrobText =
#(define-music-function (grob-name offset text)
   (symbol? number-pair? markup?)
   (_i "Attach @var{text} to @var{grob-name} at offset @var{offset}
 (use like @code{\\once})")
   (make-event-chord
(list
 (make-music 'AnnotateOutputEvent
 'symbol grob-name
 'X-offset (car offset)
 'Y-offset (cdr offset)
 'text text

balloonText =
#(define-event-function (offset text) (number-pair? markup?)
   (_i "Attach @var{text} at @var{offset} (use like @code{\\tweak})")
   (make-music 'AnnotateOutputEvent
   'X-offset (car offset)
   'Y-offset (cdr offset)
   'text text))

and at the current point of time, there would not appear to be a more
proper way.

This is bullsh*t, including the completely absurd documentation strings.
We should likely change the semantics and commands to match those of
\footnote .

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi David,

> Is it possible to get the markup to attach to the clef or time signature only 
> in the bass staff? I am getting the text to show, but it is attaching to both 
> staves.

You’ve put the Balloon_engraver in the Score context, so all staves will 
display balloons. Use \with on the one Staff context instead (see below). If 
you need it on more than one, but not all, staves, you might consider creating 
a custom StaffWithBalloons context.

Hope that helps!
Kieren.

%%%  SNIPPET BEGINS
\version "2.19.80"

melody = \relative c' {
  c4 c c c
}

stuff = {
  \balloonGrobText #'TimeSignature #'(0 . -1) \markup "test1"
  \balloonGrobText #'Clef #'(0 . -1) \markup "test2"
  \time 2/4
  c2 c
}

\score {
  \new StaffGroup
  <<
\new Staff { \clef "treble" \melody }
\new Staff \with {
  \consists "Balloon_engraver"
  \override BalloonTextItem.annotation-balloon = ##f
  \override BalloonTextItem.annotation-line = ##f
  \override BalloonTextItem.font-size = #-2
  \override BalloonTextItem.font-series = #'bold
}
{ \clef "bass" \stuff }
  >>
}
%%%  SNIPPET ENDS


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[dfro]

Kieren,

I was playing with the code you shared on this thread, and I have a 
question.
Is it possible to get the markup to attach to the clef or time signature 
only in the bass staff? I am getting the text to show, but it is 
attaching to both staves.


Thanks for any advice.

Peace,
David

Here is the code snippet I wrote based on yours:

%START OF CODE

\version "2.19.80"

\layout {
  \context {
    \Score
    \consists "Balloon_engraver"
    \override BalloonTextItem.annotation-balloon = ##f
    \override BalloonTextItem.annotation-line = ##f
    \override BalloonTextItem.font-size = #-2
    \override BalloonTextItem.font-series = #'bold
  }
}


melody = \relative c' {

  c4 c c c
}

stuff = {
  \balloonGrobText #'TimeSignature #'(0 . -1) \markup "test1"
  \balloonGrobText #'Clef #'(0 . -1) \markup "test2"
  \time 2/4

  c2 c
}

\score {
  \new StaffGroup
  <<
    \new Staff {
  \clef "treble"
  \melody }
    \new Staff {
  \clef "bass"
  \stuff }
  >>
}

%END OF CODE




On 4/12/18 10:21 AM, Kieren MacMillan wrote:

Hi David,


can't you achieve your goal with the various footnote/balloon mechanisms?

I just tried to — in order to give the OP an example — but my attempt didn’t 
work:

%%%  SNIPPET BEGINS
\version "2.19.80"

\layout {
   \context {
 \Voice
 \consists "Balloon_engraver"
   }
}

stuff = {
   \balloonGrobText #'TimeSignature #'(1 . 0) \markup "test" \time 2/4 s2
}

\score { \stuff }
%%%  SNIPPET ENDS

No error, though… What did I do wrong? (Note: using \new Voice \stuff also 
didn’t work as expected.)

Thanks,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: Displace position of time signature

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Aaron,

Both of these solutions are excellent and useful and exactly what I am
after. Thanks!

Manual fiddling of this stuff is fine by me for the New Complexity scores
that I do, which need lots of coaxing into shape.

Andrew
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Re: Displace position of time signature

[Aaron Hill]

On 2018-05-17 19:05, Andrew Bernard wrote:

Thank you very much. The next logical (or stupid?) question is, can one
snug the notes under the time signature, as though it occupied no 
space?



  \version "2.19.81"
  { \override Staff.TimeSignature.Y-offset = #4
\override Staff.TimeSignature.X-extent = #'(-2 . -2)
\override Staff.TimeSignature.X-offset = #1
\time 3/4 c'4 d' e' | \time 5/4 f'4 g' a' b' c'' }


You should note that this example lies about the extents of the grob, so 
it will very easily produce collisions that require manual adjustment to 
resolve.


Regarding the snippet Karlin found, you will need to be mindful of font 
size.  Here is a variant that uses \abs-fontsize to ensure the results 
are consistent between use in a rehearsal mark as well as being 
associated with a note:



  \version "2.19.81"
  #(define-markup-command (timesig layout props body) (markup-list?)
(interpret-markup layout props
  #{ \markup \override #'(baseline-skip . 0) \abs-fontsize #11
 \number \column $body #}))

  { \omit Staff.TimeSignature
\time 3/4 \mark \markup \timesig { 3 4 } c'4 d' e' |
\time 5/4 f'4^\markup \timesig { 5 4 } g' a' b' c'' }



-- Aaron Hill

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Re: Displace position of time signature

[Karlin High]

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 9:05 PM, Andrew Bernard
<andrew.bern...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The next logical (or stupid?) question is, can one snug
> the notes under the time signature, as though it occupied no space?

Intriguing. I found a lilypond-user thread from 2009 about imitating
time signatures in markup.

<http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/2009-04/msg00510.html>

The "real" time signatures could be eliminated by \omit, or \context {
\Staff \remove "Time_signature_engraver" } and then re-created as
markup.

Or maybe there's a Scheme function or something to actually make
normal time signatures behave the way you asked. Those exceed my
skills.
-- 
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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Re: Displace position of time signature

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Aaron,

Thank you very much. The next logical (or stupid?) question is, can one
snug the notes under the time signature, as though it occupied no space?

Andrew


On 18 May 2018 at 10:57, Aaron Hill <lilyp...@hillvisions.com> wrote:

>
> 
>   \version "2.19.81"
>   { \override Score.TimeSignature.Y-offset = #4 \time 3/4 c'4 d' e' }
> 
>
>
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Re: Displace position of time signature

[Aaron Hill]

On 2018-05-17 17:53, Andrew Bernard wrote:
Is it possible to have time signatures show above the barline, not 
inline

in the staff?

I'm aware there is a solution using a separate staff for time 
signatures,
but I would rather not use that, as I do want them to sit very snug on 
top

of the barline.



  \version "2.19.81"
  { \override Score.TimeSignature.Y-offset = #4 \time 3/4 c'4 d' e' }


Does this work for you?

-- Aaron Hill

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Displace position of time signature

[Andrew Bernard]

Is it possible to have time signatures show above the barline, not inline
in the staff?

I'm aware there is a solution using a separate staff for time signatures,
but I would rather not use that, as I do want them to sit very snug on top
of the barline.

Andrew
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Re: Hiding Time Signature

[Garreth]

Thank you guys so much. Karlin's answer is super easy!



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Re: Hiding Time Signature

[Noeck]

Hi Garreth,

Karlin showed you the best way to do that.
But you were already close: 'False' is ##f and not #ff:

{
  \override Score.TimeSignature.stencil = ##f
  a
}

Cheers,
Joram

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Re: Hiding Time Signature

[Karlin High]

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 6:19 PM, Garreth <dr.broes...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I simply want to hide the time signature for some basic music theory
> examples.

Welcome to LilyPond!

There are several ways to hide the time signature. Here is one example.

\version "2.18.2"
{
  \omit Staff.TimeSignature
  c'
}

And the Learning Manual page for this topic:
<http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/learning/visibility-and-color-of-objects>
-- 
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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Hiding Time Signature

[Garreth]

Hi,


Sorry to ask a super basic question... But I am really new to LP. I hope
this will be really easy.

I simply want to hide the time signature for some basic music theory
examples.

<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t5620/cf.png> 

See the image I attached.

I found a command online that I think should work. On line 6, I wrote:

\override Score.TimeSignature.stencil = #ff

But it's not working! Can someone please give me the correct syntax for
hiding the time sig?


Thank!

Garreth



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Re: Different time signature on different staff

[Knut Petersen]

Hi Ming!


Question: how to align bar lines for the above lilybin sample.


Well, as long as your MelodyA starts with \partial 8 \time 6/8
and your MelodyB starts with \partial 4 \time 4/4, bars will
never happen at the same moment in time and thus bars
will not be aligined ...

Knut
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RE: Different time signature on different staff

[Ming Tsang]

Knut,
Thank you for the sample PDF and ly source. 
http://lilybin.com/94hi4y/1 
Question: how to align bar lines for the above lilybin sample.
Ming


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Knut Petersen
Sent: April 16, 2018 12:07 PM
To: Ming Tsang; lilypond-user@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Different time signature on different staff

Hi Ming! 
My code did not produce the expecting of time 6/8 on the first staff.  
What shall I code to correct this.

After reading the manual location pointed out by Brian you might have a look 
at my edition of Hugo Distles polymetric "Er ist's". PDF and source code

Knut

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RE: Different time signature on different staff

[Ming Tsang]

Brian, 
Thank you for pointing me to NR. I have been search LSR and found nothing.
I will study the NR.
Ming

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Brian Barker
Sent: April 16, 2018 11:49 AM
To: lilypond-user@gnu.org
Cc: Ming Tsang
Subject: Re: Different time signature on different staff

At 11:17 16/04/2018 -0400, Ming Tsang wrote:
>My code did not produce the expecting of time 6/8 on the first 
>staff. What shall I code to correct this.

See "Different time signatures with equal-length measures" and 
"Different time signatures with unequal-length measures" under 
"Polymetric notation" at
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/displaying-rhythms#polymetric-notation
 
.

Brian Barker  


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Re: Different time signature on different staff

[Knut Petersen]

Hi Ming!

My code did not produce the expecting of time 6/8 on the first staff.

What shall I code to correct this.


After reading the manual location pointed out by Brian you might have a look
at my edition of Hugo Distles polymetric "Er ist's". PDF 
 and source 
code 


Knut
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Re: Different time signature on different staff

[Brian Barker]

At 11:17 16/04/2018 -0400, Ming Tsang wrote:
My code did not produce the expecting of time 6/8 on the first 
staff. What shall I code to correct this.


See "Different time signatures with equal-length measures" and 
"Different time signatures with unequal-length measures" under 
"Polymetric notation" at
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/displaying-rhythms#polymetric-notation 
.


Brian Barker  



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Different time signature on different staff

[Ming Tsang]

Dear ponders,
My code did not produce the expecting of time 6/8 on the first staff.  
What shall I code to correct this.
Thanks,
Ming




Sent from Mail for Windows 10



the-spirit-of-life_test.ly
Description: Binary data
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Re: numeric time signature (was Defining custom symbols)

[Robert Hickman]

Thanks, I have been reading the documentation, but missed that the example
was wrong.

On 15 April 2018 at 14:54, Andrew Bernard  wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>
> You can search the lilypond user mailing list archives. There is a large
> amount of discussion on this topic.
>
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> On 15 April 2018 at 23:13, Robert Hickman  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> What option do I need to crop the output to the size of the score,
>> getting rid of the blank page area?
>>
>
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Re: numeric time signature (was Defining custom symbols)

[Andrew Bernard]

Hi Robert,

You can search the lilypond user mailing list archives. There is a large
amount of discussion on this topic.

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-user/

Andrew



On 15 April 2018 at 23:13, Robert Hickman  wrote:

>
>
> What option do I need to crop the output to the size of the score, getting
> rid of the blank page area?
>
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Re: numeric time signature (was Defining custom symbols)

[Robert Hickman]

Hello again,

I've just downloaded the symbol repo and have been experimenting. I Noticed
that the time signature set in the file is not reflected in the output
(using the example from the repo). It displays common time 'C' instead of
2/4.  Adding \numericTimeSignature causes it to create a second blank score
at the top of the output.

What option do I need to crop the output to the size of the score, getting
rid of the blank page area?

\version "2.18.2"
\include "larsen-symbols.ily"

\numericTimeSignature
\time 2/4

{
b'2\cut
b'\strike
b'\slideUp
b'\slideDown
b'\longRoll
b'\shortRoll
b'\longDoubleCutRoll
b'\shortDoubleCutRoll
b'\crann
b'\shortCrann
b'\trill
b'\singleTrill
b'\shake
b'\breathe

  }


On 15 April 2018 at 11:49, Robert Hickman <robehick...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Cool, I hope you do well with it.
>
> On 15 April 2018 at 11:46, Andrew Bernard <andrew.bern...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Robert,
>>
>> That symbol set is so nice I have decided to dig out my tin whistle and
>> learn it properly!
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>
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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Werner (and David),

> Well, this is cheating, isn't it?

I prefer “creative”.  ;)

Cheers,
Kieren.


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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[Werner LEMBERG]

>>> This is the solution I will use, since David's solution doesn't
>>> really work for me: As the attached image for this snippet shows,
>>> the staff line gets enlarged horizontally to the left.  Using the
>>> baloon stuff, the text properly sticks out.
>>
>> What about
>>
>>  \new Staff
>>  {
>>\tweak stencil
>>  #(grob-transformer 'stencil
>>(lambda (grob default)
>>  (grob-interpret-markup grob
>>   #{ \markup \with-dimensions-from "a" \column {

Well, this is cheating, isn't it?

>>\stencil #default
>>\vspace #-2.5
>>\center-align "This is a long, centered text" } #})))
>>\time 2/4 c'1
>>  }
>>
>> Hope that helps!
>
> Uh, I think the balloon version is a whole lot more appropriate for
> that use case and cleaner anyway.

I agree.


Werner

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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[David Kastrup]

Kieren MacMillan  writes:

> Hi Werner,
>
>> This is the solution I will use, since David's solution doesn't really
>> work for me: As the attached image for this snippet shows,
>> the staff line gets enlarged horizontally to the left.  Using the
>> baloon stuff, the text properly sticks out.
>
> What about
>
>  \new Staff
>  {
>\tweak stencil
>  #(grob-transformer 'stencil
>(lambda (grob default)
>  (grob-interpret-markup grob
>   #{ \markup \with-dimensions-from "a" \column {
>\stencil #default
>\vspace #-2.5
>\center-align "This is a long, centered text" } #})))
>\time 2/4 c'1
>  }
>
> Hope that helps!

Uh, I think the balloon version is a whole lot more appropriate for that
use case and cleaner anyway.  I just couldn't be bothered looking up its
usage.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Werner,

> This is the solution I will use, since David's solution doesn't really
> work for me: As the attached image for this snippet shows,
> the staff line gets enlarged horizontally to the left.  Using the
> baloon stuff, the text properly sticks out.

What about

 \new Staff
 {
   \tweak stencil
 #(grob-transformer 'stencil
   (lambda (grob default)
 (grob-interpret-markup grob
  #{ \markup \with-dimensions-from "a" \column {
   \stencil #default
   \vspace #-2.5
   \center-align "This is a long, centered text" } #})))
   \time 2/4 c'1
 }

Hope that helps!
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
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‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[Werner LEMBERG]

David, Kieren,


thanks a lot for your snippets!  For didactical purposes I need
centered, explanatory text over a time signature.

> Here's a snippet showing how balloon text might be used.

This is the solution I will use, since David's solution doesn't really
work for me: As the attached image for this snippet shows,

  \new Staff
  {
\tweak stencil
  #(grob-transformer 'stencil
(lambda (grob default)
  (grob-interpret-markup grob
   #{ \markup \column {
\stencil #default
\vspace #-2.5
\center-align "This is a long, centered text" } #})))
\time 4/4  c'1
  }

the staff line gets enlarged horizontally to the left.  Using the
baloon stuff, the text properly sticks out.


Werner
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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi David,

> Huh.  It's in the context of
> 
> \new Voice \with { ... }
> {
>   ...
> }
> 
> I don't think we have examples along the lines
> 
> \new Score \with { ... }
> {
>   ...
> }
> 
> but if that's where the ad-hoc engraver is best placed, maybe we should?

Another alternative would be to leave it where it is in the example, and then 
note (e.g., below) that the best practice is to add it at the Score level. Each 
presentation has its potential pitfalls… I'm on the fence about which is better.

Thanks,
Kieren.


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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[David Kastrup]

Kieren MacMillan  writes:

> Hi David,
>
>> Time signatures are engraved at Staff context.  I'd likely suggest to
>> put Balloon_engraver at Score level anyway: no point in having more than
>> one of them active, is there?
>
> I was thinking that myself… but the docs explicitly add it at the
> Voice level
> (cf. 
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/outside-the-staff#balloon-help).
>
> Should that section be modified (or at least annotated/commented) to
> reflect the best practice?

Huh.  It's in the context of

\new Voice \with { ... }
{
   ...
}

I don't think we have examples along the lines

\new Score \with { ... }
{
   ...
}

but if that's where the ad-hoc engraver is best placed, maybe we should?

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[Ben]

On 4/12/2018 10:35 AM, David Kastrup wrote:

Ben <soundsfromso...@gmail.com> writes:


On 4/12/2018 8:26 AM, David Kastrup wrote:

Werner LEMBERG <w...@gnu.org> writes:


Folks,


is it possible to attach a markup to a time signature?


But can't you achieve your goal with the various footnote/balloon
mechanisms?



Just a quick question,

David why does your code seem to not work properly when you add the
numeric time signature command before the 4/4 time?
The markup disappears in that case...on my end at least.

Thank you!

%
\version "2.19.80"

\new Staff
{
   \tweak stencil
   #(grob-transformer 'stencil (lambda (grob default)
     (grob-interpret-markup grob
  #{ \markup \column { \stencil #default
  \vspace #-2
  \small \with-color #red "Hi!"
    } #})))
   \numericTimeSignature \time 4/4  c'1
}

Because now you are tweaking the \numericTimeSignature command instead
of the \time command?



My eyes today, geesh. Yup :) That sure was what I was doing - thanks!
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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi all,

Here's a snippet showing how balloon text might be used.

Hope it helps!
Kieren.

%%%  SNIPPET BEGINS
\version "2.19.80"

\layout {
  \context {
\Score
\consists "Balloon_engraver"
\override BalloonTextItem.annotation-balloon = ##f
\override BalloonTextItem.annotation-line = ##f
\override BalloonTextItem.font-size = #-2
\override BalloonTextItem.font-series = #'bold
  }
}

stuff = {
  \balloonGrobText #'TimeSignature #'(0 . 0.5) \markup "test" \time 2/4 s2
}

\score { \stuff }
%%%  SNIPPET ENDS


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‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi David,

> Time signatures are engraved at Staff context.  I'd likely suggest to
> put Balloon_engraver at Score level anyway: no point in having more than
> one of them active, is there?

I was thinking that myself… but the docs explicitly add it at the Voice level 
(cf. 
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/outside-the-staff#balloon-help).

Should that section be modified (or at least annotated/commented) to reflect 
the best practice?

Cheers,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
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‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[David Kastrup]

Ben <soundsfromso...@gmail.com> writes:

> On 4/12/2018 8:26 AM, David Kastrup wrote:
>> Werner LEMBERG <w...@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>>
>>> is it possible to attach a markup to a time signature?
>>
>>
>> But can't you achieve your goal with the various footnote/balloon
>> mechanisms?
>>
>>
>
> Just a quick question,
>
> David why does your code seem to not work properly when you add the
> numeric time signature command before the 4/4 time?
> The markup disappears in that case...on my end at least.
>
> Thank you!
>
> %
> \version "2.19.80"
>
> \new Staff
> {
>   \tweak stencil
>   #(grob-transformer 'stencil (lambda (grob default)
>     (grob-interpret-markup grob
>  #{ \markup \column { \stencil #default
>  \vspace #-2
>  \small \with-color #red "Hi!"
>    } #})))
>   \numericTimeSignature \time 4/4  c'1
> }

Because now you are tweaking the \numericTimeSignature command instead
of the \time command?

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[David Kastrup]

Kieren MacMillan  writes:

> Hi David,
>
>> can't you achieve your goal with the various footnote/balloon mechanisms?
>
> I just tried to — in order to give the OP an example — but my attempt didn’t 
> work:
>
> %%%  SNIPPET BEGINS
> \version "2.19.80"
>
> \layout {
>   \context {
> \Voice
> \consists "Balloon_engraver"
>   }
> }
>
> stuff = {
>   \balloonGrobText #'TimeSignature #'(1 . 0) \markup "test" \time 2/4 s2
> }
>
> \score { \stuff }
> %%%  SNIPPET ENDS
>
> No error, though… What did I do wrong? (Note: using \new Voice \stuff also 
> didn’t work as expected.)

Time signatures are engraved at Staff context.  I'd likely suggest to
put Balloon_engraver at Score level anyway: no point in having more than
one of them active, is there?  Have not used this myself though.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[Ben]

On 4/12/2018 8:26 AM, David Kastrup wrote:

Werner LEMBERG <w...@gnu.org> writes:


Folks,


is it possible to attach a markup to a time signature?



But can't you achieve your goal with the various footnote/balloon
mechanisms?




Just a quick question,

David why does your code seem to not work properly when you add the 
numeric time signature command before the 4/4 time?

The markup disappears in that case...on my end at least.

Thank you!

%
\version "2.19.80"

\new Staff
{
  \tweak stencil
  #(grob-transformer 'stencil (lambda (grob default)
    (grob-interpret-markup grob
 #{ \markup \column { \stencil #default
 \vspace #-2
 \small \with-color #red "Hi!"
   } #})))
  \numericTimeSignature \time 4/4  c'1
}
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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi David,

> can't you achieve your goal with the various footnote/balloon mechanisms?

I just tried to — in order to give the OP an example — but my attempt didn’t 
work:

%%%  SNIPPET BEGINS
\version "2.19.80"

\layout {
  \context {
\Voice
\consists "Balloon_engraver"
  }
}

stuff = {
  \balloonGrobText #'TimeSignature #'(1 . 0) \markup "test" \time 2/4 s2
}

\score { \stuff }
%%%  SNIPPET ENDS

No error, though… What did I do wrong? (Note: using \new Voice \stuff also 
didn’t work as expected.)

Thanks,
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
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‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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Re: attaching markup to time signature

[David Kastrup]

Werner LEMBERG <w...@gnu.org> writes:

> Folks,
>
>
> is it possible to attach a markup to a time signature?

\new Staff
{
  \tweak stencil
  #(grob-transformer 'stencil (lambda (grob default)
(grob-interpret-markup grob
 #{ \markup \column { \stencil #default
 \vspace #-2
 \small \with-color #red "Hi!"
			   } #})))
  \time 4/4  c'1
}
  
But can't you achieve your goal with the various footnote/balloon
mechanisms?

-- 
David Kastrup
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attaching markup to time signature

[Werner LEMBERG]

Folks,


is it possible to attach a markup to a time signature?


Werner

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Re: No Time Signature

[nokel81]

Thank you



--
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Re: No Time Signature

[Malte Meyn]

Am 27.12.2017 um 16:54 schrieb nokel81:

Hello, is there a way so that lilypond treats an entire staff as a single bar
and just break the notes where it is best? I want to do this with stem-less
notes for modern chant.


How about this?

\version "2.19.80"

\relative {
  \omit Staff.TimeSignature
  \cadenzaOn
  \set Score.barAlways = ##t
  \set Score.defaultBarType = ""
  \omit Stem
  \repeat unfold 7 { c'4 d e f g a b c b a g f e d }
}

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No Time Signature

[nokel81]

Hello, is there a way so that lilypond treats an entire staff as a single bar
and just break the notes where it is best? I want to do this with stem-less
notes for modern chant.



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Re: double time signature problem

[Urs Liska]

Am 15. November 2017 21:36:56 MEZ schrieb Noeck :
>Am 14.11.2017 um 17:50 schrieb Karlin High:
>> My knowledge of German is mostly limited to a Schwäbisch-Pfälzisch
>> dialect filtered through 12 generations in America.
>
>I would really like to hear what the result of that process is!

Well, I admit I'd be curious how the *origin* of that sounds ;-)

>
>Cheers,
>Joram
>
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-- 
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.

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Re: double time signature problem

[Noeck]

Thank you.

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Re: double time signature problem

[Karlin High]

On 11/15/2017 2:53 PM, David Kastrup wrote:

Noeck  writes:


Am 14.11.2017 um 17:50 schrieb Karlin High:

My knowledge of German is mostly limited to a Schwäbisch-Pfälzisch
dialect filtered through 12 generations in America.


I would really like to hear what the result of that process is!






"Hiwwe wie Driwwe, Serving the Interests of Pennsylvania Germans and 
Palatines on Both Sides of the Atlantic"


https://hiwwewiedriwwe.wordpress.com/
http://hiwwewiedriwwe.com/de/das-projekt/
--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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Re: double time signature problem

[David Kastrup]

Noeck  writes:

> Am 14.11.2017 um 17:50 schrieb Karlin High:
>> My knowledge of German is mostly limited to a Schwäbisch-Pfälzisch
>> dialect filtered through 12 generations in America.
>
> I would really like to hear what the result of that process is!



-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: double time signature problem

[Noeck]

Am 14.11.2017 um 17:50 schrieb Karlin High:
> My knowledge of German is mostly limited to a Schwäbisch-Pfälzisch
> dialect filtered through 12 generations in America.

I would really like to hear what the result of that process is!

Cheers,
Joram

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Re: double time signature problem

[Wols Lists]

On 15/11/17 10:51, Knut Petersen wrote:
> Am 15.11.2017 um 00:26 schrieb Noeck:
>>
>>> The diminutive of „Magd“ is „Mägdelein“ or maybe „Mägdchen“ (nobody
>>> would use the latter), but not „Mädchen“.
>> But still "Mädchen" seems to be derived from "Magd":
>> http://www.wissen.de/wortherkunft/maedchen
> 
> Yes, Grimm agrees
> .
> 
> It's a pity that Mark Twain did not know about "Mensch": "Der Mensch"
> (masculine) means "the human being". The old "das Mensch" (neuter) 
> means "a female human being" and is still occasionally used in some
> areas of Germany. Plural: "Die Menscher" ;-)
> 
Oddly enough, (and "mensch" is translated as "man" when used as a swear
word) the English word "Man" originally also meant "the human being". Eg
"mankind".

It had two ?Norse prefixes to add gender, Wer-Man and Wif-Man. The Wer
presumably got dropped (but survives in words like were-wolf), while
Wif-Man became Woman and, presumably, also Wife.

Cheers,
Wol


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Re: double time signature problem

[Knut Petersen]

Am 15.11.2017 um 00:26 schrieb Noeck:



The diminutive of „Magd“ is „Mägdelein“ or maybe „Mägdchen“ (nobody
would use the latter), but not „Mädchen“.

But still "Mädchen" seems to be derived from "Magd":
http://www.wissen.de/wortherkunft/maedchen


Yes, Grimm agrees 
.

It's a pity that Mark Twain did not know about "Mensch": "Der Mensch" (masculine) means "the human being". 
The old "das Mensch" (neuter)  means "a female human being" and is still occasionally used in some areas of Germany. 
Plural: "Die Menscher" ;-)

cu,
 Knut
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Re: double time signature problem

[Werner Arnhold]

Okay, mee too:

Mackensen, ethymolologic dictionary says:

Mädchen, since middle of 17th century simplified from "Mägdchen",
diminuative from "Magd"

The latter only today is a farm maid, in former times it was an unwedded
woman. See in a german christmas carol, the text is (about the virgin
birth of Mary) "... und blieb ein reine Magd." (Es ist ein Ros
entsprungen, Michael Praetorius, 1571-1621).

I agree, the "Mägdchen" is not in use today.

Werner

Am Mittwoch, den 15.11.2017, 00:26 +0100 schrieb Noeck:
> > The diminutive of „Magd“ is „Mägdelein“ or maybe „Mägdchen“ (nobody
> > would use the latter), but not „Mädchen“.
> 
> But still "Mädchen" seems to be derived from "Magd":
> http://www.wissen.de/wortherkunft/maedchen
> 
> Cheers,
> Joram
> 
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Re: double time signature problem

[Noeck]

> The diminutive of „Magd“ is „Mägdelein“ or maybe „Mägdchen“ (nobody
> would use the latter), but not „Mädchen“.

But still "Mädchen" seems to be derived from "Magd":
http://www.wissen.de/wortherkunft/maedchen

Cheers,
Joram

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Re: double time signature problem

[Simon Albrecht]

On 14.11.2017 20:36, Blöchl Bernhard wrote:

(neuter). "Die Mad", "Das Madchen" likewise. Again, here English is very
unusual ...


I argue there is meant "Die Magd"


The diminutive of „Magd“ is „Mägdelein“ or maybe „Mägdchen“ (nobody 
would use the latter), but not „Mädchen“.


Best, Simon

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Re: double time signature problem

[Blöchl Bernhard]

...
(neuter). "Die Mad", "Das Madchen" likewise. Again, here English is 
very

unusual ...


I argue there is meant "Die Magd", "das Mädchen" for maid/maiden in the 
job sensefarmgirl or maidservant. I argue Magd instead of Mad. (My 
talent for languages is absolutely nought.)


Regards



Cheers,
Wol

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Re: double time signature problem

[Wols Lists]

On 14/11/17 16:50, Karlin High wrote:
> And I just learned something there:
> 
> "Der Hund hat den Mann gebissen" and
> "Den Mann hat der Hund gebissen"
> both mean "The dog has bitten the man".
> 
> I knew the Russian language had that word-order feature/bug, but didn't
> realize German did too. My knowledge of German is mostly limited to a
> Schwäbisch-Pfälzisch dialect filtered through 12 generations in America.

This is actually a *normal* feature of most languages. English is
actually very unusual in that nouns, for the most part, do not visibly
decline (that is - the form used remains the same regardless of whether
the noun is subject, object, dative, whatever. The only visible change
is the addition of 's for the genitive).

"der Hund" means "the dog (subject)", and "den Mann" means "the man
(object)", so it's perfectly clear who bit whom, regardless of where the
word is in the sentence.

You can get confusion, because in German they decline the word "the",
and combined with a noun that changes in the right way, you might get it
all ambiguous.

It's the same with gender - and that can also be confusing especially
when making a diminutive. "Die Frau" (feminine), "Das Fraulein"
(neuter). "Die Mad", "Das Madchen" likewise. Again, here English is very
unusual because words do not have a gender (the objects they refer to
may, but that's different ... :-)

Cheers,
Wol

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Re: double time signature problem

[Karlin High]

On 11/14/2017 2:39 AM, David Kastrup wrote:

Luther basically has been the last major such moment in German, with the
shift from Mittelhochdeutsch already being behind.


Here's a "very short introduction" to the German language. It's aimed at 
English speakers, and has a few paragraphs of origins, history, and 
compare-and-contrast with English.


http://www.germanstudies.org.uk/vsigerman.htm

Love that site for its Early New High German online dictionary.

And I just learned something there:

"Der Hund hat den Mann gebissen" and
"Den Mann hat der Hund gebissen"
both mean "The dog has bitten the man".

I knew the Russian language had that word-order feature/bug, but didn't 
realize German did too. My knowledge of German is mostly limited to a 
Schwäbisch-Pfälzisch dialect filtered through 12 generations in America.

--
Karlin High
Missouri, USA

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Re: double time signature problem

[Werner Arnhold]

Thanks to all list members who answered.

I decided to use the solution from the blog of Urs in the file
"alternating-time-signatures.ly". It works very fine. It seems to me to
be a more general approach than the similar solution from Joshua (thanks
to him too).

The question of a good-looking position of the word "Welt" in measure 5
will take a bit more work for me, I have no experience with Null Voices.
So I will dive into it in the near future.

So far thank you all!

Werner

Am Montag, den 13.11.2017, 17:45 +0100 schrieb Urs Liska:
> 
> 
> Am 13.11.2017 um 16:16 schrieb David Wright:
> 
> > On Mon 13 Nov 2017 at 10:55:06 (+0100), Werner Arnhold wrote:
> > > Hi, list members,
> > > 
> > > I try to typeset an old choral work with hemiolic measures. That leads
> > > me to a 3/4 Mesure sometimes changed to a 3/2 measure without special
> > > indication and immediately back again. So I wanted to follow a printed
> > > example with two time signatures at the beginning of the first line.
> > The word you want to search on is alternatingTimeSignatures
> > but I've only turned up
> > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2014-05/msg00045.html
> > which might not be up-to-date. Urs may reply with a better version.
> > The one I use is attached.
> 
> Some more reference is in this blog post:
> http://lilypondblog.org/2014/06/polymetrics-in-sibelius-vs-lilypond/
> 
> The key idea is to create the visual time signature including all
> occuring time signatures and then suppress the *printing* of time
> signatures. That way you can write the actual time signatures (=>
> semantically correct) but have only the general rule printed at the
> beginning.
> 
> HTH
> Urs
> 
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > David.
> > 
> > 
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Re: double time signature problem

[David Kastrup]

David Wright  writes:

> Fair enough; I didn't know that. So how far back do you have to go in
> German to hear things that would sound archaic or stilted to modern
> ears?

I sound archaic or stilted to modern ears.  It's a bit of a moving
target, but Luther was a language trendsetter regarding written language
since he decided to write things as they were spoken.  So his German
reads quite different from that of contemporaries.  He is not the first
to translate parts of the Bible into German, but other attempts read
quite contrived and hard to understand to modern readers in comparison.

Luthers has been rephrased and reworded over the centuries as well and
does read a bit strange, but the grammar appears sound, it's just some
vocabulary and its usage.  Quite less of a change than "Get thee gone,
knave!  Thou speakest not in good faith." would appear to English
speakers who tend to horribly mangle attempts at constructing elements
of grammar still in use at Shakespearean time.  German has not really
retired grammar since then, and even archaic usage like "Rede Er kein
dummes Zeug!" fits into active grammar use well enough that native
speakers would not get it wrong.

In English you have the phenomen of the change from Middle English to
Early Modern English which is like a complete change of language.  It's
not as much as there actual was such a rapid change of language than a
geographical shift of the centre and mode of written culture, "nobody
talks like that here/anymore" catching up with a continuity of writing.

Luther basically has been the last major such moment in German, with the
shift from Mittelhochdeutsch already being behind.

> I know that Wagner invented an archaic form of German for the Ring to
> lend it "authenticity" but did he have sources/ examples to draw on?

Out of my depth here.

> ¹ But I don't keep up with contemporary composers.
> ² Almost all the *psalm* texts in Messiah are BCP, not KJV.

Ok, but the difference does not appear all that large to me regarding
the "archaicness".

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: How can I omit time signature from the very first measure, but then add it at the second one?

[Vinny]

Thank you very much! It worked. :)



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Re: double time signature problem

[David Wright]

On Mon 13 Nov 2017 at 17:32:09 (+0100), David Kastrup wrote:
> David Wright  writes:
> 
> > BTW does the German used here sound as archaic as Coverdale's
> > translation (Lift up your heads, O ye gates, and be ye lift up,
> > ye everlasting doors, and the King of glory shall come in)
> 
> Uh, The Messiah _was_ composed and performed in English.  The libretto
> was written by Charles Jennens, and basically uses Bible passages from
> the KJV version.

I was quoting psalm 24 from the 1662 Book of Common Prayer which used
the Great Bible translation by Coverdale. This is still the traditional
Anglican Psalter. I'm assuming that Hammerschmidt would be setting a
a Lutheran translation? If so, then Coverdale would have been
completely familiar with this text and was probably translating from
it in part.

> In this quote, I see "ye", 2nd person plural nominative (nowadays, the
> accusative is used for everything).  That's all.  Just a tiny bit of
> Early Modern English.  All the rest is quite current-day use.  It's
> similar with other passages: it uses Early Modern English pronouns and
> verb forms (like Shakespeare would) but is pretty standard fare
> otherwise.

"Be you lift up" is not present day usage, nor "heads" in that sense.
Similarly, the second motet in this set uses psalm 51 which in English
would be "Make me a clean heart, O God: and renew a right spirit
within me."

> The problem is that the corresponding Lutheran German _is_ the same as
> modern-day German apart from some spelling differences.  German hasn't
> seen significant grammatical changes or simplifications since then.

… whereas English *has* changed since the days of the Great Bible.
That's why the Church of England seem determined to eliminate this
translation and others like it from most church services. However,
most settings¹ of psalm texts in English use this version, just as
Jennens/Handel did². It's just so well known.

> > or does it resemble contemporary usage?
> 
> Both.

Fair enough; I didn't know that. So how far back do you have to go
in German to hear things that would sound archaic or stilted to
modern ears? I know that Wagner invented an archaic form of German
for the Ring to lend it "authenticity" but did he have sources/
examples to draw on?

¹ But I don't keep up with contemporary composers.
² Almost all the *psalm* texts in Messiah are BCP, not KJV.

Cheers,
David.

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Re: How can I omit time signature from the very first measure, but then add it at the second one?

[David Kastrup]

Vinny <vini.wolfl...@gmail.com> writes:

> Trying to write a piece where the very first bar is completely devoid of any
> time signature indicators. Under the hood it's okay if the measure is a 4/4,
> I just don't want that to be visible on the PDF. The reason is, one of the
> musicians in the group will play an unmetered, improvised intro that ends on
> the first beat of the first metered measure, so I want to put an empty
> measure there with a simple s1 and a markup for reference. I realize this is
> unconventional.
>
> I've tried \cadenzaOn and \cadenzaOff before the first occurrence of a \time
> statement, I've \hide TimeSignature and even \omit TimeSignature, but it
> seems I haven't found the correct way of accomplishing this. I'm really just
> trying anything here. I couldn't find a good solution on  Lilypond's
> unmetered music section
> <http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/displaying-rhythms#unmetered-music>
> .
>
> Also if I make the staff \with { \remove "Time_signature_engraver" } the
> first time signature does vanish, but so do all time signatures everywhere,
> which is not intended.
>
> The attached image is a mockup of the intended score, made with Photoshop.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> <http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t5079/mockup.png> 

Doesn't seem that hard.  Probably your mistake was \omit TimeSignature
(which omits time signatures in the Voice context where nobody puts them
anyway).

For me, the following works:

\version "2.18.0"

\new Staff \with { \numericTimeSignature }
{
  \once \omit Staff.TimeSignature
  s1^\single \textLengthOn-\markup \italic "Unmetered Solo"
  \time 4/4
  \tempo Larghetto
  r1
  r1
}

-- 
David Kastrup

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How can I omit time signature from the very first measure, but then add it at the second one?

[Vinny]

Trying to write a piece where the very first bar is completely devoid of any
time signature indicators. Under the hood it's okay if the measure is a 4/4,
I just don't want that to be visible on the PDF. The reason is, one of the
musicians in the group will play an unmetered, improvised intro that ends on
the first beat of the first metered measure, so I want to put an empty
measure there with a simple s1 and a markup for reference. I realize this is
unconventional.

I've tried \cadenzaOn and \cadenzaOff before the first occurrence of a \time
statement, I've \hide TimeSignature and even \omit TimeSignature, but it
seems I haven't found the correct way of accomplishing this. I'm really just
trying anything here. I couldn't find a good solution on  Lilypond's
unmetered music section
<http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/displaying-rhythms#unmetered-music>
 
.

Also if I make the staff \with { \remove "Time_signature_engraver" } the
first time signature does vanish, but so do all time signatures everywhere,
which is not intended.

The attached image is a mockup of the intended score, made with Photoshop.
Thanks in advance.

<http://lilypond.1069038.n5.nabble.com/file/t5079/mockup.png> 



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Re: double time signature problem

[Urs Liska]

Am 13.11.2017 um 16:16 schrieb David Wright:

On Mon 13 Nov 2017 at 10:55:06 (+0100), Werner Arnhold wrote:

Hi, list members,

I try to typeset an old choral work with hemiolic measures. That leads
me to a 3/4 Mesure sometimes changed to a 3/2 measure without special
indication and immediately back again. So I wanted to follow a printed
example with two time signatures at the beginning of the first line.

The word you want to search on is alternatingTimeSignatures
but I've only turned up
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2014-05/msg00045.html
which might not be up-to-date. Urs may reply with a better version.
The one I use is attached.


Some more reference is in this blog post: 
http://lilypondblog.org/2014/06/polymetrics-in-sibelius-vs-lilypond/


The key idea is to create the visual time signature including all 
occuring time signatures and then suppress the *printing* of time 
signatures. That way you can write the actual time signatures (=> 
semantically correct) but have only the general rule printed at the 
beginning.


HTH
Urs



Cheers,
David.


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Re: double time signature problem

[Chris Yate]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 at 16:33 David Kastrup  wrote:

> David Wright  writes:
>
> > BTW does the German used here sound as archaic as Coverdale's
> > translation (Lift up your heads, O ye gates, and be ye lift up,
> > ye everlasting doors, and the King of glory shall come in)
>
> Uh, The Messiah _was_ composed and performed in English.  The libretto
> was written by Charles Jennens, and basically uses Bible passages from
> the KJV version.
>

Correct. But in the spirit of accuracy and pedantry, the work is called
"Messiah".
;-)

Chris

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 at 16:33 David Kastrup  wrote:

> David Wright  writes:
>
> > BTW does the German used here sound as archaic as Coverdale's
> > translation (Lift up your heads, O ye gates, and be ye lift up,
> > ye everlasting doors, and the King of glory shall come in)
>
> Uh, The Messiah _was_ composed and performed in English.  The libretto
> was written by Charles Jennens, and basically uses Bible passages from
> the KJV version.
>
> In this quote, I see "ye", 2nd person plural nominative (nowadays, the
> accusative is used for everything).  That's all.  Just a tiny bit of
> Early Modern English.  All the rest is quite current-day use.  It's
> similar with other passages: it uses Early Modern English pronouns and
> verb forms (like Shakespeare would) but is pretty standard fare
> otherwise.
>
> The problem is that the corresponding Lutheran German _is_ the same as
> modern-day German apart from some spelling differences.  German hasn't
> seen significant grammatical changes or simplifications since then.
>
> > or does it resemble contemporary usage?
>
> Both.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>
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Re: double time signature problem

[David Kastrup]

David Wright  writes:

> BTW does the German used here sound as archaic as Coverdale's
> translation (Lift up your heads, O ye gates, and be ye lift up,
> ye everlasting doors, and the King of glory shall come in)

Uh, The Messiah _was_ composed and performed in English.  The libretto
was written by Charles Jennens, and basically uses Bible passages from
the KJV version.

In this quote, I see "ye", 2nd person plural nominative (nowadays, the
accusative is used for everything).  That's all.  Just a tiny bit of
Early Modern English.  All the rest is quite current-day use.  It's
similar with other passages: it uses Early Modern English pronouns and
verb forms (like Shakespeare would) but is pretty standard fare
otherwise.

The problem is that the corresponding Lutheran German _is_ the same as
modern-day German apart from some spelling differences.  German hasn't
seen significant grammatical changes or simplifications since then.

> or does it resemble contemporary usage?

Both.

-- 
David Kastrup

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Re: double time signature problem

[Joshua Stutter]

You should try something like this, changing the TimeSignature stencil 
to a custom markup:


---

{
  \override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil = #(lambda (grob) 
(grob-interpret-markup grob #{ \markup {

    \override #'(baseline-skip . 0)
    \number \line {
  \column { 3 4 }
  \column { 3 2 }
    }

} #}))
  b' b'
}

---

On 13/11/17 09:55, Werner Arnhold wrote:

Hi, list members,

I try to typeset an old choral work with hemiolic measures. That leads
me to a 3/4 Mesure sometimes changed to a 3/2 measure without special
indication and immediately back again. So I wanted to follow a printed
example with two time signatures at the beginning of the first line.

In the first attachment you can see the result of my efforts. There are
two problems in it:

1. The second time signature is too narrow to the first note. My useless
efforts for fixing this are in the minimal example, commented out.

2. It is constructed in definitely the wrong way. There must be a more
logical than optical way of building it. The connection to the
Score.RehearsalMark cannot be the right way. And by the way, it works
only for the first staff.

Is there a better way to get a solution of this problem? I know, it is
possible to avoid the problem if one accepts several visible time
changes in the score, but I don't want to.

The first attached file shows the state of the complete Work, see the
hemiolic measure at measure 5.
The minmal example ly-file shows the first 9 measures without text.

I thank you for any help.

Werner


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Re: double time signature problem

[David Wright]

Another point, dwelling on the lyrics…

On Mon 13 Nov 2017 at 10:55:06 (+0100), Werner Arnhold wrote:

> The first attached file shows the state of the complete Work, see the
> hemiolic measure at measure 5. 
> The minmal example ly-file shows the first 9 measures without text.

When you add the text, you need to take account of the moving
part in bar 5 on "Welt". For the basses, you could merely add
the lyrics to the 1st part, but this might not be convenient
later on in the movement. So …

The soprano situation is trickier because the moving part
is necessarily displaced. Here you should use a NullVoice,
duplicating the 2nd part (because theirs is written below the
staff). However, at bar 5, the last note in the NullVoice
should be modified to   a4~a   to match the rhythm of the
2nd part, but without displacement, like the 1st part.

… you may therefore decide to tackle the bass parts
similarly, adding a NullVoice.

BTW does the German used here sound as archaic as Coverdale's
translation (Lift up your heads, O ye gates, and be ye lift up,
ye everlasting doors, and the King of glory shall come in)
or does it resemble contemporary usage?

Cheers,
David.

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Re: double time signature problem

[David Wright]

On Mon 13 Nov 2017 at 10:55:06 (+0100), Werner Arnhold wrote:
> Hi, list members,
> 
> I try to typeset an old choral work with hemiolic measures. That leads
> me to a 3/4 Mesure sometimes changed to a 3/2 measure without special
> indication and immediately back again. So I wanted to follow a printed
> example with two time signatures at the beginning of the first line.

The word you want to search on is alternatingTimeSignatures
but I've only turned up
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2014-05/msg00045.html
which might not be up-to-date. Urs may reply with a better version.
The one I use is attached.

Cheers,
David.
\version "2.19.49" % 2015-12-15

%% Print multiple time signatures at the start.
%% Then omit printing time signatures at will,
%% or continue to print them.

%% To print the multiple time signatures:
%% \multiTimeSignatures #'((3 8) (4 8) (5 8))

%% To avoid printing time signatures when it changes:
%% \omit Score.TimeSignature

%% To restore normality:
%% \undo \omit Score.TimeSignature

multiTimeSignatures =
#(define-music-function (timesigs)(list?)
  (_i "Print multiple time signatures. The argument is a Scheme list
of lists. Each list describes one fraction to be printed.
When the function has executed the first of the given time signatures
will be the effective @code{\\time}, while the following are simply graphical.
When using it you will want to use @code{\\omit Score.TimeSignature}
before the next use of @code{\\time}. Please note that this does not
perform any checks regarding the used time signatures, so you're
responsible yourself to write consistent music. To return to normal
use of time signatures use @code{\\undo \\omit Score.TimeSignature}.")
  (let ((firstsig (cons
   (caar timesigs)
   (cadar timesigs
   #{ \once\override Staff.TimeSignature.stencil =
   #(lambda (grob)
 (grob-interpret-markup grob
  #{ \markup \override #'(baseline-skip . 0)
  \number
  #(map (lambda (x) #{ \markup \center-column #(map number->string x) #})
 timesigs)
 #}))
  \time #firstsig #}))

%%
%{
\relative {
  \multiTimeSignatures #'((3 8) (4 8) (5 8))
  c'8 d e
  \omit Score.TimeSignature
  \time 4/8
  f g a b
  \time 5/8
  c g c, f e
  \time 3/8
  d e f
  g a b
  \time 4/8
  c b a b
  \undo \omit Score.TimeSignature
  \time 5/8
  c b a g f
}
%}
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double time signature problem

[Werner Arnhold]

Hi, list members,

I try to typeset an old choral work with hemiolic measures. That leads
me to a 3/4 Mesure sometimes changed to a 3/2 measure without special
indication and immediately back again. So I wanted to follow a printed
example with two time signatures at the beginning of the first line.

In the first attachment you can see the result of my efforts. There are
two problems in it:

1. The second time signature is too narrow to the first note. My useless
efforts for fixing this are in the minimal example, commented out.

2. It is constructed in definitely the wrong way. There must be a more
logical than optical way of building it. The connection to the
Score.RehearsalMark cannot be the right way. And by the way, it works
only for the first staff.

Is there a better way to get a solution of this problem? I know, it is
possible to avoid the problem if one accepts several visible time
changes in the score, but I don't want to.

The first attached file shows the state of the complete Work, see the
hemiolic measure at measure 5. 
The minmal example ly-file shows the first 9 measures without text.

I thank you for any help.

Werner
\version "2.18.2"

\include "deutsch.ly"
\header { 
  tagline = ##f 	% entfernt die Fußzeile
}

#(set-global-staff-size 16)

global = {
  \key c \major
  \time 3/4
}

soprannoteni = \relative c'' {
  \autoBeamOff
  % 1
  \override Score.RehearsalMark #'extra-offset = #'( 4 . -6.2 )
  \mark \markup { \bold \center-column {" 3" " 2"} }
%  \revert Score.RehearsalMark #'extra-offset
%  \once \override Staff.NoteColumn.X-offset = #10
%  \once \override Score.NonMusicalPaperColumn #'padding = #2.5
  d4. d8 d4
  \omit Score.TimeSignature
  \time 3/4
  % 2
  d4. d8 d4
  % 3
  h4\rest d d
  % 4
  c2 c4
  % 5
  \time 3/2
  h4. c8 d4 h a2
  % 6
  \time 3/4
  g4 g a
  % 7
  h h c
  % 8
  d2.
  % 9
  a4 a h
}

soprannotenii = \relative c'' {
  \autoBeamOff
  % 1
  h4. h8 h4
  % 2
  h4. h8 h4
  % 3
  s4 h h
  % 4
  a2 a4
  % 5
  g4. a8 h4 g g fis
  % 6
  g2 s4
  % 7 
  R2.
  % 8
  r4 d e
  % 9
  f! f g
}

altnoten = \relative c'' {
  \autoBeamOff
  % 1
  g4. g8 g4
  % 2
  g4. g8 g4
  % 3
  r g g
  % 4
  e2 e4 
  % 5
  g2. g4 d2
  % 6
  d2 r4
  % 7 - 9
  \repeat unfold 3 { R2. }
}

tenornoten = \relative c' {
  \autoBeamOff
  \clef "treble_8"
  % 1
  d4. d8 d4
  % 2
  d4. d8 d4
  % 3
  r4 d h
  % 4
  c2 c4
  % 5
  d2. e4 a,2
  % 6
  h2 r4
  % 7
  r g a
  % 8
  h h c
  % 9
  d2.
}

bassnoteni = \relative c' {
  \clef bass
  \autoBeamOff
  % 1
  h4. h8 h4
  % 2
  h4. h8 h4
  % 3
  d,4\rest g g
  % 4
  c2 c4
  % 5
  g2. g4 d'( d,)
  % 6
  g2 d4\rest
  % 7 - 9
  \oneVoice \repeat unfold 3 { R2. } \voiceOne
}

bassnotenii = \relative c' {
  \clef bass
  \autoBeamOff
  % 1
  g4. g8 g4
  % 2
  g4. g8 g4
  % 3
  s4 g g
  % 4
  a2 a,4
  % 5
  h2. c4 d2 
  % 6
  g,2 s4
  % 7 - 9
  \repeat unfold 3 { s2. }
}

\score {
  \new ChoirStaff <<
\new Staff <<
  \set Staff.instrumentName = #"Sopran I/II"
  \new Voice = "soprani" {
\voiceOne
	<< \global \soprannoteni >>
  }
  \new Voice = "sopranii" {
\voiceTwo
	<< \global \soprannotenii >>
  }
>>
\new Staff <<
  \set Staff.instrumentName = #"Alt"
  \new Voice = "alt" << \global \altnoten >>
>>
\new Staff <<
  \set Staff.instrumentName = #"Tenor"
  \new Voice = "tenor" << \global \tenornoten >>
>>
\new Staff <<
  \set Staff.instrumentName = #"Bass I/II"
  \new Voice = "bassi" {
\voiceOne
	<< \global \bassnoteni >>
  }
  \new Voice = "bassii" {
\voiceTwo
	<< \global \bassnotenii >>
  }
>>
  >>
}
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Re: The proper way to change time signature in the middle of a bar?

[Wols Lists]

On 14/09/17 18:30, David Kastrup wrote:
> Wols Lists  writes:
> 
>> I've got a piece of music where I'm doing the following ..
>>
>> \time 2/4 c2 | c4.
>> \time 6/8 \partial 8 c8 | c2.
>>
>> This gives me the warning
>>
>> voiceStaff.ily:38:2: warning: trying to use \partial after the start of
>> a piece
>>
>> but it works fine.
> 
> I don't get a warning once I extend this enough to actually get a
> working example.
> 
> So I suggest switching to a newer version (you don't mention yours) or
> actually providing a relevant example.
> 
> 
> 
My version is actually quite old ... 2.15.12 on this computer. So it
sounds like it works fine in the latest versions. That's okay - I'll
upgrade as soon as I can (this is my gentoo system that doesn't like
gcc) and just put up with it for the moment.

Cheers,
Wol

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Re: The proper way to change time signature in the middle of a bar?

[David Kastrup]

Wols Lists  writes:

> I've got a piece of music where I'm doing the following ..
>
> \time 2/4 c2 | c4.
> \time 6/8 \partial 8 c8 | c2.
>
> This gives me the warning
>
> voiceStaff.ily:38:2: warning: trying to use \partial after the start of
> a piece
>
> but it works fine.

I don't get a warning once I extend this enough to actually get a
working example.

So I suggest switching to a newer version (you don't mention yours) or
actually providing a relevant example.



-- 
David Kastrup

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The proper way to change time signature in the middle of a bar?

[Wols Lists]

I've got a piece of music where I'm doing the following ..

\time 2/4 c2 | c4.
\time 6/8 \partial 8 c8 | c2.

This gives me the warning

voiceStaff.ily:38:2: warning: trying to use \partial after the start of
a piece

but it works fine. Without the \partial, though, lilypond gets confused
over the length of the measure (no wonder :-), so what's the proper way
of dealing with two part bars in different time signatures running into
each other?

Cheers,
Wol

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Re: Breaking Ties to Avoid Time Signature Changes

[Kieren MacMillan]

Hi Brian,

> Anyone know how to extend the ties, or inversely, get the whiteout area to be 
> narrower (or follow the outline of the numbers themselves)?

\once \override Staff.TimeSignature.whiteout-style = #'outline
\once \override Staff.TimeSignature.whiteout = #1

Although I don't know if you really want that exactly…? I'd personally want the 
outline of the OUTER EDGE(S) hugged, but then complete whiteout on the 
interior. That would be a great feature.

Hope this helps!
Kieren.


Kieren MacMillan, composer
‣ website: www.kierenmacmillan.info
‣ email: i...@kierenmacmillan.info


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